Woo hoo, Chip & PIN (EMV, Chip Cards, etc) FINALLY IN THE US, and WORKING

Discussion in 'Community Discussion' started by dontwalkhand, Apr 29, 2014.

  1. dontwalkhand macrumors 601

    dontwalkhand

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2007
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    #1
    A few weeks ago at Walmart, for which I am now an electronics associate (but this goes for all registers in the store), the registers have received an update that states "All ICC (EMV) Cards must NOW be inserted, and will not allowed to be swiped", and the Customer Facing terminal now reads "Please Insert or Slide Card Quickly"

    THIS GOES FOR EVEN CARDS ISSUED IN THE US with a Chip for "Traveling"

    NOW here is the issue:

    A lot of the cards that have the chip for "traveling" do not have a PIN#, and you generally don't have to set up the PIN with your bank unless you are traveling. They did not anticipate Walmart going full force EMV acceptance, and now many customers who have these cards, don't know the PIN to their own cards., and then end up leaving their purchases behind, or having to pay with another card.

    I have had many customers with a chip in their card, try to swipe, it states "Card must be inserted"…I show them the Chip & PIN reader on the bottom, and the customer, doesn't know what to do, as this is the first time they have encountered Chip & PIN. So he inserted the card, the PIN screen came up, and he doesn't know what it was, I couldn't process the transaction without it. He just used a regular Wells Fargo card afterwards instead to pay.

    So my public service announcement is, if you have one of the new AmEx Cards, etc with the Chip, you might want to set your PIN, if you want to use the card at Walmart.

    Chip & Signature cards work fine, just insert, and the cashier will press Credit, and you sign, then remove your card.

    I for one, am glad to see this in place, this means that I am sure Chip & PIN cards will be the norm in the US soon enough. What I really find sad though is that the card issuers seem to be blissfully unaware that Walmart is processing EMV cards that were issued for "traveling" using the chip and not the stripe in the USA, so they tell their clients that, you only need to set the PIN when you travel.

    Canadians, and europeans who came into my store, had no problem, and Chip & PIN works beautifully. Those American cards with a Chip in it however, are now posing trouble if the customer does not know the PIN.

    Also….does anyone know when Target is getting Chip & PIN as well? What about other stores in the USA? Any experience? So far it seems to be only Walmart that is forcing cards with a chip to be inserted, and processed just like in Europe/Canada. Maybe within the year I am sure, as that liability shift is coming up soon enough. I don't think store equipment in other stores is a problem, as every other store I have been into, have a Chip & PIN reader (but unlike Walmart, they usually aren't activated, or anticipating activation)….the only places I would see struggle with Chip & PIN now in the United States, would be restaurants, definitely.

    Now if only we can now get rid of paper checks. Also, I am now wondering what Apple Stores are going to do, and Square has to come up with some sort of Chip & PIN reader solution now as well.
     
  2. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2004
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    #2
    AmEx cards issued in the US are chip and sig.

    I've yet to find a place where my EMV AmEx works. Lots of places have EMV capable readers, it's just not enabled. I want to try it somewhere just to see how it works, but I'm not about to set foot in a Wal-Mart, so I'll wait.
     
  3. dontwalkhand thread starter macrumors 601

    dontwalkhand

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    #3
    Well Walmart is the place. Chip and Sig you just insert and sign only if it's above $50, then remove the card. You will not be able to swipe it.
     
  4. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    Aug 1, 2004
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    #4
    Not that desperate to try it.

    I figure I'll get to use it plenty when I'm in Germany later this year.
     
  5. AllieNeko, May 8, 2014
    Last edited: May 8, 2014

    AllieNeko macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    #5
    Nonsense, the only two banks in the US that issue Chip and PIN cards - UNFCU and USAA - both issue a PIN with the card. Now, if the customer doesn't know it, that's different - but they definitely have it.

    All the other cards in the US are signature priority.

    P.S. of course you can't swipe it. If you could swipe it once EMV is enabled, it'd be pointless and offer no additional security (since you'd just swipe the cloned card).

    Now, it's not REALLY true you can't swipe it. You CAN - insert the card upside down a few times, the reader will think the chip is broken and fallback. Useful if a customer doesn't know their PIN. These fallback transactions get reported to the issuing bank as such, which is MUCH more likely to decline them than a normal swipe transaction since it's an indicator it may be a counterfeit card. Especially if the transaction is outside a customer's normal spending patterns.

    Furthermore, YOU should use caution and look closely at a card if you see a customer ever insert it into the chip reader a few times quickly, then swipe it. Though at Walmart, insert then swipe IS required for Interac/UnionPay cards since those networks aren't supported as EMV yet. This is different though - insert card, reader recognises it doesn't have the right EMV application (AID), and lets you swipe it right away.
     
  6. Zexel macrumors member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2010
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    #6
    I have found a few terminals that accept EMV cards, but have not activated them yet. I know Wal-mart is leading in their terminal conversion right now so I'll have to keep an eye out next time I visit one of their stores.

    As for Apple, they have already upgraded all of their POS sleds to accept magnetic strip, EMV, and contactless payment cards - the two latter are not enabled yet, however.
     
  7. snberk103 macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Location:
    An Island in the Salish Sea
    #7
    [Emphasis Added]

    I remember when we converted to Chip and PINs here in Canada (years ago). I suspect the system is the same in the US. You'd get your new card, with the number to call to activate it ... and pile of paper to file. Offers and Terms of Service, etc. Somewhere there'd be a letter explaining the PIN was coming in a separate letter. Since few merchants had converted to PIN terminals yet, it was no big deal. A week later you'd get the letter with the flap you had peel to expose the PIN - and you'd put the letter on the desk to file with the rest of the paper they sent - except then you would realize that you didn't want to file it with the card info because you're suddenly worried about filing the card # and PIN in the same location... and you'd forget to memorize to the PIN in any case. This was inevitably just before you went shopping at the store who required the PIN when you had no cash on you. Of course none of this is from personal experience. ;)

    ps I really like the tap functionality. My local supermarket lets me tap the card on the terminal for purchases up to $100. Cool. And fast.
     
  8. velocityg4 macrumors 68040

    velocityg4

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2004
    Location:
    Georgia
    #8
    Is this the RFID chip people are advised to refuse from your card issuer? Because people can just walk by and scan card information from your wallet or purse without you knowing. Does it require direct physical contact with a reader and unable to function wirelessly?
     
  9. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2004
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    #9
    No. EMV is a chip on your card that looks very similar to a SIM card that requires contact with a reader to read. It can't work wirelessly.
     
  10. dontwalkhand thread starter macrumors 601

    dontwalkhand

    Joined:
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    Phoenix, AZ
    #10
    I just called USAA, and they anticipate on getting Chip and PIN debit cards in August through October.

    I think they might be the first for EMV debit....not credit.
     
  11. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    #11
    After using Chips here I kind of wondered how the US gets away without them. Even with the chip and pin my card was compromised,
     
  12. dontwalkhand thread starter macrumors 601

    dontwalkhand

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    #12
    Chip and PIN won't protect from internet fraud where they can steal the numbers unfortunately.
     
  13. Nermal Moderator

    Nermal

    Staff Member

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    Location:
    New Zealand
    #13
    Just out of interest, what's the speed like? Over here we have properly-configured terminals that process the transaction in half a second, and improperly-configured terminals that sometimes take 15-20 seconds. I'm amazed that it's still an issue in 2014...

    Thankfully Paywave has no speed issues, although it's currently only accepted at a limited number of places.
     
  14. pvmacguy macrumors 65816

    pvmacguy

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    Sep 2, 2009
    Location:
    Jax
    #14
    I used the chip and sig function of my amex recently at wallmart and it worked great.

    I just went recently and used the self checkout that I didn't think had the chip reader. When I swiped the card, it would rejected the swipe and said please insert card into reader.

    I'm wondering if once you use the chip/sig/pin function once at a retailer if you have to continue using that function going forward. Thought it was pretty interesting.
     
  15. wordoflife macrumors 604

    wordoflife

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    #15
    Well, overall to pay with an EMV card in the US I would say it probably takes 10-12 seconds from the moment you put it in, confirm the transaction amount, sign (if necessary) and pull the card out.

    I'm wondering that too. My card has an EMV chip but I was able to swipe it just fine before. After inserting it, out of curiosity to see if it worked, it never allowed me to swipe it again at that particular retailer.
     
  16. pvmacguy macrumors 65816

    pvmacguy

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    Jax
    #16
    That must be the case then. Same thing happned to me. I need to find another retailer that I frequent that uses EMV to test. My target by my house just got new verifone readers with EMV.
     
  17. Nermal Moderator

    Nermal

    Staff Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    New Zealand
    #17
    Here, when done properly, it's "insert card, enter PIN, wait half a second, remove card, done". When done improperly, it's "insert card, wait a few seconds, enter PIN, wait several more seconds, remove card, done". Those delays don't need to be there but apparently whoever sets up the terminals doesn't know how to make it faster. I've heard that one retailer VPNs everything back to Australia!
     
  18. dontwalkhand thread starter macrumors 601

    dontwalkhand

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    Jul 5, 2007
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    #18
    Properly configured readers (readers with EMV enabled like Walmart) will realize the card has a chip, and force an insert...it has nothing to do with usage history. There is a code in the mag stripe that tells the reader the card has a chip.

    ----------

    Answer is simple, the retailer enabled EMV, right before your next visit. You should never be able to swipe at an EMV activated terminal...unless the chip is damaged, in that case, it'd still want an insert first.
     
  19. dontwalkhand thread starter macrumors 601

    dontwalkhand

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2007
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    #19
    Another place just turned it on here near me, Home Depot

    The terminal asked for "Insert, Swipe, or Tap"... Tried to swipe my EMV AMEX, and it said "Card must be inserted"...inserted the card, and signed, and off I went.

    And my USAA card was Insert, enter PIN, and go. Faster than Walmart's Chip & PIN solution.

    Ingenico terminals. All I say is, I find it sad that it now seems like everyone else but Target is doing this.

    Also, several mom and pop shops near me have started installing customer facing swipe terminals like the big stores have, all with EMV and PayPass.

    I can see this getting confusing for consumers fast, especially since half the cards are true Chip and PIN (my USAA card) and other half is Chip and Sign.

    Maybe now NFC will finally take off, and iphone 6 will have it.
     
  20. Carlanga macrumors 604

    Carlanga

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    Nov 5, 2009
    #20
    Where I live not many people have a chip on their card since no 'state' banks have send new cards w/ chips AFAIK, being that one of my banks is CONUS based my card has had the chip for many months and I think I have popped around 40 cashiers chip cherries. For some is cool, others don't know how to do it and for the rest they just flat out tell you in an excited voice that I was their first and that was funny in my head a few times, but now I just do the fake smile, pay & leave.
     
  21. dontwalkhand thread starter macrumors 601

    dontwalkhand

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    #21
    It's funny because the steps on the cashier side of things isn't any different at all, (eg Walmart). The only bring different is the customer side, it's an insert instead of a swipe. The error message would be new to cashiers however, if you were to try to swipe a chipped card on a chip enabled terminal.

    When I run a register, the only way I know the customer was using a chip card was, I had to physically look over and see them insert the card. And also if the customer tried to swipe it, and the error message came up on my screen to instruct the customer to insert it.
     
  22. Carlanga macrumors 604

    Carlanga

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    Nov 5, 2009
    #22
    In here many places have the hand device next to the cashier (usually food places) and they swipe it instead of you, I guess is to make the process more agile for them or just a custom here. Other places that have the hand device looking towards me like walmart is just place it in transaction and wait until I sign or the receipt gets spit out. But even in those they see you placing the card in the little crevice and it's an interesting 5-10 sec talk if its the first time while the machine process it.
     
  23. AllieNeko, Sep 2, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2014

    AllieNeko macrumors 6502a

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    #23
    Most Walmarts, some Home Depots, and some small shops (mostly using First Data FD35's) hardly counts as "everyone else but Target". Target also has the new terminals, but bizarrely has EMV disabled on them, you'd think they'd be the first to want to get it going...

    The iPhone 6 is likely to have NFC payment, yes.

    Walmart's system is just slow... even swipes can be.

    Only one bank in the US (UNFCU) currently issues chip and PIN cards. USAA quit issuing them (they still call them chip and PIN, but the ones going out now aren't - so treasure that card!) and Diner's Club issues them, but doesn't accept new members in the US.
     
  24. jafingi macrumors 65816

    jafingi

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    Location:
    Denmark
    #24
    In Denmark we've used chips for years. But sometimes when it's cold, or the chip have some finger grease/oils on it, they don't work. Then we just swipe to use the magnet stripe.

    Or is there something new about these chips?
     
  25. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    Aug 1, 2004
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    #25
    Pretty sure NFC is going to be the next fad that doesn't take off. I was with someone who used it on their phone, it took her longer to get her phone out, find and open the app and pay than it did for me to pay with plastic. And it's just one more place to store my credit card info where it could potentially be stolen. I have zero desire to use it.
     

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