Would the Late 2014 mini (Iris 5100) w/10.12.1 drive the LG 27UD88 @ 4K 60Hz?

Discussion in 'Mac mini' started by BeatCrazy, Nov 14, 2016.

  1. BeatCrazy macrumors 68000

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    Jul 20, 2011
    #1
    Title says it all!

    I'm thinking ThunderBolt 2 -> DisplayPort 1.2, into the LG. Supposedly the 10.12.1 update provided native 4K @ 60Hz output from Macs (like MacBooks 2015/2016) that were previously limited to 30Hz, a la the Late 2014 Mac mini.

    The Iris 5100 integrated GPU should be able to handle 4K @ 60Hz, it's always been a problem getting it "out" of the Macs.
     
  2. BrettApple macrumors 65816

    BrettApple

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    #2
    I'm pretty sure you'll still be stuck at 30Hz with the Iris 5100. It's a limitation on the U series Haswell chips (2013 13" rMBP and 2014 Mac Mini share these) when running 4K via SST. It will run at 30Hz but the only reason I'd ever recommend that is just for video that's already 30fps say an iPhone 4K video or a 24fps movie such as on a TV. But as a monitor it'd be a disaster.

    That being said, I've read that Intel does support it via MST and I'm pretty sure it works under Windows via Boot Camp with a monitor that is specifically set to use MST. But last I was aware Apple didn't include that function in the macOS drivers. Can't trust everything you read on the internet though.

    The 2015 13" rMBP and even my 2015 13" MacBook Air DO support 4K at 60Hz and I've ran it via TB - Displayport on a Dell P2715Q and it looked great. Though some animations would stutter and drop frames on my Air (Broadwell i5 + HD6000).

    I really wish Apple would throw some love to the Mini but it's been all but ignored. I just had to order 4 new mid tier models to replace some aging 2010 era PC's at an office I manage. Hated to spend all that money on outdated Macs but that's all thats available for us. I will be installing 2.5" SSDs in them at least to save on Apple's crazy SSD pricing. iMac wasn't an option due to price and they use three identical model monitors for each computer so it just wouldn't look right. One via TB to HDMI and the other two via HDMI to a splitter as one is duplicated as a client facing monitor.
     
  3. BeatCrazy thread starter macrumors 68000

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    #3
    Well, that's the thing ^^^

    I think 10.12.1 allowed for the combining to two streams for 4K via MST when previously we were limited. TB2->DP would be the only avenue, as we know the HDMI port on the mini is hardware limited to HDMI 1.4. And of course TB2 has plenty of bandwidth for 4K, it's just the combining of image(s) within the OS.
     
  4. BrettApple macrumors 65816

    BrettApple

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    #4
    Hmm, I suppose it might be possible then. Anyone have a system to try it on? Haha.

    I own a Late 2013 13" MacBook Pro (Retina of course) and there is one Dell P2715Q display at work hooked to a PC I just built for CAD work in our shop. I do have access to it so I might run over there some day during my break or something and see if I can get it to run at 60Hz. I have a TB/MiniDP to DP cable already on my MacBook Air at work hooked to an older 1080P Dell monitor that I could use.

    Looking at the manual though, I'm not sure MST will work right with it as it might still be locked to 30Hz. I can always try though, whenever I update to macOS Sierra, as my MBP is still on El Capitan since it's been 100% stable and I like to keep it that way.

    I also have access to 9 2014 Mac Mini's though one is the base model (HD5000) the rest are the mid tier models with the Iris on board. I'd just have to move one over there on a day off. They just sit on a stage during the week anyway, but they are on Yosemite and El Capitan so moot point at the moment. Production equipment doesn't get updated till it needs to be. A few would be okay with it though as they aren't involved in production. I'll update later if I get around to trying it. If it does indeed work I might consider one of Dell's 4K monitors for my MBP at home. Currently I'm using an AOC 27" 1080p panel. It looks alright but the pixels are quite noticeable at that size and resolution.
     
  5. ActionableMango macrumors G3

    ActionableMango

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    #5
  6. BeatCrazy, Nov 17, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2016

    BeatCrazy thread starter macrumors 68000

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    #6
  7. BeatCrazy thread starter macrumors 68000

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    #7
    Well, I can answer my own question. The Late 2014 Mac mini definitely doesn't support 60Hz at 4K with the LG 27UD88. I have it here, hooked up via HDMI (never expected to work), and TB2->DP. It looks absolutely brilliant at 1080p HiDPI, but it's stuck at 30Hz.


    Call me crazy, but after an hour of playing around, 30Hz is not as bad as I thought. I do reserve the right to change my opinion ;) Fortunately, I know how good it could look, because I ran my Late 2013 Mac Pro into this same monitor and got full 4K at 60Hz via DP. Yes, it looks great! But unless I'm doing some heavy scrolling, the 30Hz option for the Mini is not ridiculously awful. Maybe the LG 27UD88 is doing some frame interpolation when it receives 30Hz? Same thing most LCD TVs do today (which I despise). But since it's possibly just a straight 2X doubling to 60Hz, there aren't many artifacts.
     
  8. elmacci macrumors newbie

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    Jan 30, 2015
    Location:
    Munich, Germany
    #8
    Hi there,

    just bought the LG 2788UD to try it out (this evening after work) with my Mac Mini 2014 i5 2,6 GHz and was wondering if it works with 60Hz. I already read beforehand that it probably won't - and now reading that its not too shabby at 30Hz sounds great.
    I also do have a macbook retina 12" (Early 2016), so the display will definitely stay with me as this machine can drive the lg at 4K@60Hz out of the box.

    However, what i will test in the future is
    a) can i somehow drive the display with 52Hz (using SwitchResX) on the mac mini
    b) This Solution shown on Youtube seems to work with Mac Mini 2014 an 4K@60Hz -->

    Has anybody tested a) or b) already?
    Will gladly report back when i got the chance to test it myself. Test A) this evening, Test b) probably tomorrow when the mentioned active UHD Adapter arrives.

    Cheers
    elMacci

    - Please excuse my english - it's not my mother tongue -
     
  9. elmacci macrumors newbie

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    Jan 30, 2015
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    #9
    Well, quick update:
    I managed to get 60Hz with UHD (1920x1080 HiDPI) - still can't believe it...o_O
    Using the Club3D Adapter mentioned in the YT Video and SwitchResX (CustomResolution with 60Hz).
    It did not seem to work at first, I always got a black screen after switching to 60Hz via SwitchResX. The trick was to change the refresh rate in the monitor system settings of macOS, not in switch res x.

    Although I believe to see some improvement, I am not sure if it truly is 60 hz (or my eyes are just weary after hours of refresh rate tests :confused:). Is there a valid test to check the refresh rate?
    I already checked on testufo.com and it really says 60hz...(see attachments).

    Setup:
    Mac mini Late 2014 (i5 2,6Ghz, 8GB Ram, 1 TB SSD Samsung Evo 850)
    LG 27UD88
    Club 3D Mini DisplayPort -> HDMI 2.0 Adapter
    HDMI 2.0 Cable


    Cheers
    elMacci
     

    Attached Files:

  10. BeatCrazy thread starter macrumors 68000

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    #10
    Impressive! I really didn't think it would work (didn't for me), but I wasn't using SwitchResX, nor that particular adapter.

    Any other issues that you've run into? So you just have to have SwitchResX open/running, and macOS gives you the option for 4K with a 60Hz refresh in the drop down?
     
  11. elmacci macrumors newbie

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    #11
    After spending most part of the weekend with this, I stand corrected..."das war ein kalter" as people from my part of Germany would say right now (i.e., if something didn't work out as expected).

    Let me explain:
    After posting my "success" here earlier I still was suspicious - testufo.com said it was 60hz, the display preferences said it was 60hz...but it didn't LOOK like 60hz to my eyes.

    After fiddling around a bit more I found a setting with around 40hz - and even THAT looked better than the 60hz.
    So something was going on here...Unfortunately, the 40 Hz weren't stable.

    Well, it is safe to say that the adapter works - but only to a maximum of 30Hz at 4K with the Mac mini 2014.

    Sorry for the hassle, I really would have loved for this to work out.

    BUT - and that is why I am satisfied right now despite the setback - I managed to find the optimum setting for me.

    I am running a 3360x1890 Resolution with TRUE 60Hz right now - scaled via HiDPI to 1680x945.
    It looks GORGEOUS, although it is not exactly the native resolution of the monitor.

    I even added another, smaller Resolution - so now I get a variety of options in the display preferences (see pictures).

    I added the Switchres Settings as Screenshots as well.

    Maybe it is of help to someone out here. I can live with the smaller real estate, and the HiDPI Resolution worked out fine as well.

    Cheers
    elMacci
     

    Attached Files:

  12. elmacci macrumors newbie

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    Munich, Germany
    #12
    Little Update:

    I was having problems with a black screen after waking the mini up after a longer period of sleep - the monitor would just not come back on though the Mac mini was running and accessible through Remote Desktop.

    This problem seems to be OS-related and is fixed in macOS 10.12.2 which came out recently.
    Now the Mac works flawlessly with this resolution. I even changed it to a higher one - 3424x1726 (1712x963@60Hz). The Picture looks even better now, I personally don't see much difference anymore between UHD and this resolution.
    So, I'm happy now.

    On a sidenote: 3840x2160 seems to work stable now too with 50Hz (it didn't before 10.12.2.). Although smother than 30hz, I prefer the slightly lower resolution at 60Hz.

    Cheers


    Bildschirmfoto 2016-12-14 um 11.44.14.png Bildschirmfoto 2016-12-14 um 11.44.05.png
     
  13. christolito macrumors newbie

    christolito

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    Oct 28, 2017
    #13
    @elmacci Looks great - thanks for sharing! Are you running this over hdmi? Or do you use any adapters? What is the settings for the 3840x2160 resolution? Where you running this at 50hz stable and ok on the mini?
     
  14. elmacci macrumors newbie

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    #14
    Unfortunately I dont have this setup anymore, so I dont know the exact settings I had. I used both monitors with mini displayport (thunderbolt connector) to displayport cable adapters (from club 3d).
     
  15. christolito macrumors newbie

    christolito

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    Oct 28, 2017
    #15
    Ah, no probs :) Was it an OK setup? Did you notice any issues using the mac mini and this screen (with your settings)? So your settings for 3424 resolution won't work with the hdmi output on the mini then? You need the adapter? Do you remember what exact adapter you used, @elmacci ?
     
  16. elmacci macrumors newbie

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    #16
    Yeah, setup worked fine/flawless once i found the correct settings in switchresx as described in my earlier posts. I just checked my buying history on amazon, and the adapter was in fact a mini displayport to hdmi 2.0 4k@60hz adapter, model cac-1170. I connected it via hdmi 2.0 cable to the lg monitor. You just have to keep in mind to enable ultra deep hdmi (or a setting sounding something like that in picture settings on the monitor). otherwise it wont work with higher resolution/refresh rate.
     
  17. Trusteft macrumors 6502

    Trusteft

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    Nov 5, 2014
    #17
    I am a bit confused mentioning 1080p @ 60hz as a remarkable success on a 4K monitor. Was there a possibility that the 2014 mini wouldn't be able to do that? My 2012 can do 1080p @ 60hz on my 4K monitor (by Philips) just fine.
     
  18. elmacci macrumors newbie

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    #18
    1080p@60HZ in HiDPI Resolution - meaning that it is actually 3840x2160@60Hz, but macOS scales it accordingly so everything looks like Retina.
     
  19. ceraz macrumors member

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    Apr 1, 2008
    #19
    Thanks for this report elmacci. I have a mac mini late 2014 with HDMI cable connected to the LG27UD88 and came across your post. Indeed with a HDMI-HDMI cable I'm limited to 1080p@30hz HiDPI.

    I'm puzzled that a minidisplay port 1.2 cable adapter can provide 1080p@60hz HiDPI but then I just discovered that these are active devices (as opposed to passive cables) which opens a full new set of questions on Displayports. I can imagine an active adapter could spoof 60hz by simply repeating a 30hz output. But if this happened then the mac mini display settings wouldn't allow you to scale the text, normally it should only do this for HIDPI. I therefore assume that a mDP 1.2 passive cable should also the trick.

    So do you definitely notice a difference between the direct HDMI cable and the minidisplay port adapter? If so willing to give it try.
     
  20. elmacci macrumors newbie

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    #20
    Hi there,
    sorry for the late response. To be honest, I dont have the mac mini anymore - switched to a hackintosh with i7 Quadcore, 32Gigs of Ram and a GTX 1080TI - perfectly driving 3 4K Monitors now :)

    Like mentioned in my posting #12, it works at 60Hz with the rather odd "near 4K"-Resolution using SwitchResX.
    You will never get 4K via HDMI, even with a new mac - apple does not support hdmi protocol 2.0 yet, only 1.4. And this protocol does not support 60Hz and 4K over HDMI.

    cheers
     

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