Xbox 2 developer's kit arrives for Mac


rendezvouscp

macrumors 68000
Aug 20, 2003
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Long Beach, California
Woop, G5's! I know, it's already been stated, but that's interesting info. I wonder why they're going to continue with a form of Windows, or maybe someone can correct me on that.
-Chase
 

Nermal

Moderator
Staff member
Dec 7, 2002
18,678
1,183
New Zealand
Well what else do you expect Microsoft to use? Linux? :eek:

Although an OS X-based Xbox would be good: Introducing the OSXbox :D
 

iMeowbot

macrumors G3
Aug 30, 2003
8,643
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Windows is what Xbox programmers are used to using, so it makes sense to keep the interface as much the same as they can.
 

Bendit

macrumors regular
Jul 22, 2003
226
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Toronto, Canada
The Macs are most likely running an emulated version of the XBox OS, probably through a modified Virtual PC.

And it's only using Windows because it's Microsoft, not because it's any easier to program on. Microsoft has to promote it's own device OS.

Plus, it's doing a fine job on the XBox.

Despite popular belief, writing code for the XBox is not similar to writing code for Windows.
 

Nermal

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Staff member
Dec 7, 2002
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Bendit said:
The Macs are most likely running an emulated version of the XBox OS, probably through a modified Virtual PC.
Apparently they're running a version of Windows NT for PowerPC.
 

tj53

macrumors member
Dec 10, 2004
46
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New Hampshire
Microsoft will no doubt be more cautious this time around with preventing modding and hacking the machine. But my question is: do you think that it will be hackable to enable OSX to run on it, just like you can run linux (and i believe windows) on the current one?

Edit: I mean if I could buy a G5 with a Radeon 9800 for a few hundred...
 

Bendit

macrumors regular
Jul 22, 2003
226
0
Toronto, Canada
tj53 said:
Microsoft will no doubt be more cautious this time around with preventing modding and hacking the machine. But my question is: do you think that it will be hackable to enable OSX to run on it, just like you can run linux (and i believe windows) on the current one?

Edit: I mean if I could buy a G5 with a Radeon 9800 for a few hundred...
No.
 

JeffTL

macrumors 6502a
Dec 18, 2003
733
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I bet it'll be a stock Apple and they'll charge for the stock Apple and then some -- so there is no incentive for people to do that, and any real console developer can afford a Power Mac anyways.
 

2GMario

macrumors regular
Mar 11, 2004
184
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i dont know, im still quite skeptical.

i dont really play games, random session of UT2004, but thats about it, but i do follow console news very closly

to me things dont add up to a winner.

the facts (as i know them)
xbox2...
will use multiple g5 processors
MS recently bought virtual pc and made it work on the g5 processor
change of video corp (nvidia to ati)
attempting to beat sony out of the gate (before next christmas i believe)
no hard drive

now, look at what we know
a: the g5 isnt exactly a cool running processor. they cant put it in a laptop, the iMac g5 needed extensive cooling and the 2.5ghz needs liquid cooling

althow they bought virtual pc, emulating a os + video (needed to reproduce nvidia shaders from xbox1), there are still speed losses

the simple fact of changing video providers makes for almost imediate breaking of backwords compatibility. i also heard there were legal issues with coding virtual pc to be compatible with xbox1 video (nvidia owning rights / patents to certain processes)

on top of that, add to problems with saving xbox1 info due to lack of no hard drive in xbox2

not to mention, to my knowledge, a single G5 chip isnt exactly cheap, and IBM hasent been having the best of times producing massive quantities of them.

this coupled with the $300 target price point, stuff doesnt add up for me.

but, in the end, its wait and see, but between the joint venture of sony and company, the only leg MS has to stand on is the 1 year early release, IF they can meet that goal.
 

2GMario

macrumors regular
Mar 11, 2004
184
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Well, is the Xbox OS different than Windows in its core? I think it'd make sense to develop a new OS optimized for the new hardware, but I don't think they could within a year.
Xbox1 os was a striped down version of Windows NT

this was due to the facts that a: the os didnt need all the functionality of a full blown copy of Windows NT

and b: the processor was a modified intel celeron / not having all the features of a real celeron

could MS pull off a new os in 1 year ? probably not

could they have been developing / planning xbox2 since months before xbox1 release (putting us at about 2+ years now in dev) ? yes

could they be modifing NT Alpha (64bit version) to run on the G5 ? more than likly

just some info
-Mario
 

ZildjianKX

macrumors 68000
May 18, 2003
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More importantly, would I be the only one interested in booting a G5 in a windows environment to potentially play games? :)
 

whenpaulsparks

macrumors regular
Jun 5, 2004
210
1
Tallahassee, FL
is this article for real? i think the fact that it is abound with awkward english and improper terms and usage (i.e. "XboX" - microsoft never capitalized the last x, "Intel X64"... its x86, "it will be a Mac G5"... no one says Mac like that) kindof loses its credibility. if he can barely make sense, who is to say he has inside information that the XDK was released?

maybe he got his info from a credible source. anyways...

because the xbox is notorious for being hacked, heck i have a modded one right beside me, i'm 99.9999% sure that microsoft is going to be putting HUGE amounts of effort into getting it hack-proof. they didn't really try last time around. i don't understand why, because if anything it means more xbox sales, but it does have potential to hurt game sales due to the ability to copy them... but if it doesn't have a hard drive, it's going to be a sad day. i am very confident that they could get linux running on the xbox 2, and yes, then they could get mac on linux running very fast. but if it doesnt include a hard drive, there will be issues there.
 

Trowaman

macrumors 6502a
Nov 3, 2003
598
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CD: TX-14
dejo said:
So what OSes are the Playstation and GameCube running? Just curious.
all I know is the cube is PowerPC based.
. . . Goes back to playing Smash bros. with my RA . . . Samus smashes Peach :D
 

Poff

macrumors 65816
Sep 16, 2003
1,258
1
Stavanger, Norway
Disc-manager and Dual Boot

It should be possible to make a dual boot system on a G5, with one partition or hdd running this special version of Windows NT that you downloaded from the internet, and the other running OS X. Then, if you wanted to play games, you'd just fire up NT and run an X-BOX 2 game through the Developers Kit you downloaded from the internet.
 

Kagetenshi

macrumors 6502
Feb 24, 2004
309
0
Boston
ZildjianKX said:
More importantly, would I be the only one interested in booting a G5 in a windows environment to potentially play games? :)
Yes, you would. Different architecture, no compatibility even if the OS is the same. Most code written sloppily enough to not be portable to the Mac won't be easily ported to Windows either.

~J
 

tj53

macrumors member
Dec 10, 2004
46
0
New Hampshire
Wouldn't there have to be a hard drive or some other installable media if they are plannning on downloadable updates and the like?
 

Yvan256

macrumors 603
Jul 5, 2004
5,032
886
Canada
tj53 said:
Microsoft will no doubt be more cautious this time around with preventing modding and hacking the machine. But my question is: do you think that it will be hackable to enable OSX to run on it, just like you can run linux (and i believe windows) on the current one?

Edit: I mean if I could buy a G5 with a Radeon 9800 for a few hundred...
Cool, we'll finally get a low-cost headless G5 box, with a great GPU on top of that!

Too bad it won't run OS X. :rolleyes:
 

the_mole1314

macrumors 6502a
Sep 16, 2003
774
0
Akron, OH
Ok, explain this logic. Microsoft is going to sell a $299 system with dual 3ghzs G5s in it, which not only is not available to long time partner Apple, but not even in production yet? AND they plan to sell it for 300 bucks? Am I the only one who is betting we'll see a single low end G5 in it, like under iMac low end.
 

Kagetenshi

macrumors 6502
Feb 24, 2004
309
0
Boston
Keep in mind that the XBox, as with most consoles, has historically been a loss leader, and that a lot of the components needed for a full computer are either not needed or not as essential for a console. Take away the monitor, the need for upgradability, add a few other cost-saving measures and suddenly Microsoft is within two or three games of breaking even on the XBox 2. They don't need to turn a profit on the hardware itself, that'll always give them a cost advantage over a Mac.

~J
 

tj53

macrumors member
Dec 10, 2004
46
0
New Hampshire
Kagetenshi said:
Keep in mind that the XBox, as with most consoles, has historically been a loss leader, and that a lot of the components needed for a full computer are either not needed or not as essential for a console. Take away the monitor, the need for upgradability, add a few other cost-saving measures and suddenly Microsoft is within two or three games of breaking even on the XBox 2. They don't need to turn a profit on the hardware itself, that'll always give them a cost advantage over a Mac.

~J
Thats a good point as it is my understanding that for the current Xbox in order to meet the price of the PS2 they are actually losing money, although this may not still be a fact (for the current console) as prices on tech have naturally declined since debut.