'Xenophobia' starting to bug me

Discussion in 'Community' started by whocares, Mar 10, 2004.

  1. whocares macrumors 65816


    Oct 9, 2002
    Though you might think this would better suited in the Political & War Forums and that it'll be in Wasteland pretty soon, I think this thread belongs in the Community Forums. It does indeed concern the way the community/certain members (me included) of the community behave...

    Though the thread title seems a bit extreme, I wanted it to be catchy. I agree that it is way exagerated.


    So to the point. I've been noticing recently that it becomes hard to have discussions without "country bashing" breaking in as soon as a subject is non-US. Don't get me wrong: there is plenty of anti-US bashing too, and that also should stop.
    This is really apparent in the Apple vs. French Tax thread. It's a shame because it takes focus off the real issue and congests the discussions with useless posts. Politics are fine in the appropriate forums, and I suppose I can except "country bashing" there too. But openly insulting countries in news/rumor/current events without any real grounds is just unacceptable IMHO.

    I have myself been known to "country bash" and I most regret it. Mea culpa. Hence I would like to propose a moratorium on "country bashing". Kind of extend the "no personal insult" of the rules to a "no insulting of a country or of their inhabitants". Some examples:

    1."France is a crappy country and the French are stupid because they tax iPods" - unacceptable
    "France's approach to counter piracy is crappy because..." - acceptable

    2."US companies are bullies and Americans a pretencious because they want to impose they business ways in France" - unacceptable (don't flame, it's an example :p )
    "US companies have no grounds for imposing they ways because..." - acceptable

    Such insulting or unfounded and useless flame-bait critism towards any country could then be grounds for a warning/banning.


    I think this would make some thread a bit more friendly and reduce the amount of useless/misplaced posts. I am alone or do others agree?

    (lets keep this nice and un-political so it doesn't go straight to Wasteland!)
  2. wrc fan macrumors 65816

    wrc fan

    Jan 19, 2003
    In a world where LPs are made like pancakes
    Would it be OK to bash the country if you live there? :D
  3. caveman_uk Guest


    Feb 17, 2003
    Hitchin, Herts, UK
    If we banned posts slagging off countries or groups of countries then there's some round here that wouldn't have anything to say... :rolleyes:
  4. JesseJames macrumors 6502a

    Mar 28, 2003
    How'd I get here? How can I leave?
    I wish I was born in Antarctica. Then I wouldn't really give a crap about all this crap.
    I want to go to France and shag as many French chicks as I can.
    Just thought I'd share that thought. :D
  5. agreenster macrumors 68000


    Dec 6, 2001
    Walt Disney Animation Studios
    I remember the whole, "freedom fries" episode here in the US, and thought it was so stupid. The French were entitled to their own soverign opinion about whether or not to join the US in actions against the dictatorship of Iraq, and it was pretty hillbilly of us to get all defensive. "Thems stinkin frenchies an after all we dones for em (buuurp)! I aint callin em french fries no more down the greasy spoon. Nope. That'll show em! Go 'Merica!"

    Yeah, pretty stupid. I agree that people often forget that normal people, who just want to lead normal lives live in the countries they're bashing, and that the opinions or actions of the government often times does not reflect the opinions of the nation. Tough times.

  6. Mr. Anderson Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

    Nov 1, 2001
    I wonder how many people *have* been born in Antarctica? :confused:

    It can't be many - but given if you've been stationed there over a winter doing research and there's not much to do except stay indoors out of the cold and you start hitting it off with one of the other researchers.......:D :eek:

  7. Mantat macrumors 6502a

    Sep 19, 2003
    Montréal (Canada)
    That is exactly why the research mission there last only 6 months and they then switch crew.. :-D
  8. scem0 macrumors 604


    Jul 16, 2002
    back in NYC!
    I think it's okay to bash a country if you provide good reasoning for doing so.

    Maybe if enough people bash how Americans aren't eco-friendly with their driving habits/SUV's then we will start correcting that. Well, that is doubtful.

    But I agree that someone just saying 'America sucks' is not helpful at all.

  9. whocares thread starter macrumors 65816


    Oct 9, 2002
    Well it's ok to bash their behaviours, but saying "they're stupid because they drive SUVs" is just flame-bait.


    I think humour and self-derision are always acceptable ;)
  10. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

    Jun 25, 2002
    Gone but not forgotten.
    They are stupid, though, especially when I have to deal with them on the road.

    Considering that I have made some comments about the French government, I should be the one shot first. There aren't many governments in the world which bother me, but it is one of the most illogical to me. I accept the French people because I know that they could not be responsible for such things. Just because I live in the U.S.A. doesn't mean I have any control over Bush and the other maniacs who run this country.
  11. takao macrumors 68040


    Dec 25, 2003
    Dornbirn (Austria)
    i guess it all depends on personal experience .. if a person never have been to a different country than the country he was born i guess then is the chance higher to be xenophibic...
    (for a a example my grand parents never have been outside of austria/switzerland/germany their whole life they are sometimes very worried about immigrants and has much prejudices about other countries etc.)

    a few holidays out of your own country is the best cure for this

    so my suggestion to all: make holidays outside of your own country sometimes , with friends it is funny as hell (i'll never forget those spain/italy/hungary trips)
  12. Stella macrumors G3


    Apr 21, 2003
    Many start slagging off countries to get on a band wagon and / or haven't a clue about the country, apart from the crap they hear through the news.

    A typical example of this is "who would miss the french", which came on the "apple v fench" article yesterday.
    I'm sure if the poster had actually visited France, his / her opinion would change.

    Also the "Europe will be full of Muslims" quote, in the same thread.

    So what? What is wrong with Muslims??? (barring the *minority* who want to kill non muslims). Answer: Nothing. I know a few Muslims and they are all good people.

    I know that a few posts are meant as a joke, fine, but the joke wears very thin after a dozen times..
  13. Stella macrumors G3


    Apr 21, 2003
    OF course. Many people do take the p?ss out of their own country. If you couldn't, then you have a problem.
  14. rainman::|:| macrumors 603


    Feb 2, 2002
    I have to agree, France is a great example of xenaphobia, with the anti-french sentiment that peaked in the US... people pouring french wine in the gutters, renaming food, it made me ashamed to be an American. We owe the French a lot, historically, but apparently it's OK to forget that in times of disagreement. I do hope I've never based another country here (maybe in jest), including the USA, however I have no reservations about bashing the current US leaders or the mob mentality that sometimes overtakes the American people.

  15. bitfactory macrumors 6502


    Jul 22, 2002
    newsflash... the French (in general) have been notoriously 'anti-American' for years. that doesn't, however, give us an excuse to do the same - but just thought i'd throw this in here. the idea that the French get picked on with no provocation or rebuttal is ridiculous.
  16. arn macrumors god


    Staff Member

    Apr 9, 2001
    I agree... the anti-"fill in the blank" country sentiment pisses me off. And it does go both ways...

    I guess the best that can be done is to warn/ban the offenders until they no longer feel welcome. :)

    I'm serious about that though.... if you can't play nice... don't play at all. It's one thing to disagree with (for example) the French Government's decisions, but to then use that to insult/condemn all French citizens is essentially the same as racism.

    Report any offensive posts (the exclamation point icon on each post message).
  17. SiliconAddict macrumors 603


    Jun 19, 2003
    Chicago, IL
    What if I bash those that live in the open ocean? DAMN Atlantians! Smug little SOBs! ;)

    Seriously. People get a burr up their butt for such stupid reasons and automatically start calling everyone names. America suck, France sucks, England sucks, Russia sucks, China sucks, your mama sucks (Wait, we won't go there.) Reality check. No one has a monopoly on suckage. Every country on this planet sucks to a certain extent, some more then others. Frankly considering how much sucking has been going on, on a global scale I'm surprised the planet hasn't turned into a black hole yet.
    I'm of the opinion that every man, woman, child, and country sucks. But I think scientific tests have found that politicians, lawyers, and upper management in large companies suck anywhere from 30% to 80% more then average folks. It's a global sucking conspiracy. Might I suggest: The S-Files? Continue the suck fest en mass.

    Oh and add me to the list of people that think that bashing another country is a banable and old school paddling offense. Get that o' board of education of out retirement for such people.
  18. trebblekicked macrumors 6502a


    Dec 30, 2002
    Chicago, IL, USA
    *insert microsoft suckage monopoly quip here*
  19. wrc fan macrumors 65816

    wrc fan

    Jan 19, 2003
    In a world where LPs are made like pancakes
    You know you here a lot about French people being rude to American tourists, but have you ever experienced it? Other than that I can't really think of how they've been anti-American. Perhaps it was them lending the U.S. funds so that the U.S. could win the war against England and become a separate country, since there's nothing more anti-American than helping to start America (And sure, their helping was mostly because they disliked England, but without their help, America might not have won).
  20. JamesDPS macrumors regular

    Feb 25, 2004
    Irvine, CA
    I've gotta say that in my own personal experience, the people of ANY country will be totally cool to you as long as you don't come at them with any kind of prejudice (eg. expecting them to act a certain negative way). Even in countries that the US gov't has screwed over (take El Salvador for example), the people still love a lot of aspects of American culture, and they will usually be courteous and kind to American citizens because, despite our democratic system, people in other countries still know to separate the American people from the American government. France is no exception to this rule: if you go to Paris and act like the "stereotypical American tourist" (i.e. loud, arrogant, expecting everyone to speak English and get out of your way) then of course, it will be a self-fulfilling prophecy -- you expect bad treatment so you act like an ass, and then get bad treatment. But in any country, if you are simply kind and polite, maybe even making a little effort to learn how that country works (and some of the language), then people will help you out and be nice to you. This is probably truer in other countries (even France;)) than here in the U.S., which is probably one of the generally "ruder" countries on the planet. I'd say overall, I get better treatment from the people of France (or most foreign countries) than the people of the San Fernando Valley! :cool: This is all in a very generalized way, of course... so don't flame me for bashing the Valley!
  21. jxyama macrumors 68040


    Apr 3, 2003
    one thing i did notice (yes, i've lived in france for two years quite recently) is that romance language speakers tend to prefer speaking other romance languages. italians and french (generally) like to speak other romance languages instead of english. i've noticed this in france, switzerland and italy.

    in italian swiss, the preferred language went italian then french.
    in french swiss, the order was french then italian or german. (but much stronger preference in staying with french.)
    in german swiss, the order was german then english.

    anyway, the conclusion is that i've noticed most french speakers like to stick with french and at worst, other romance languages. and they take great pride in the french language... so some of them don't like it being butchered. so in my experience, it's a crapshoot what type of french people you meet in france:

    1) don't mind english and will help you in english
    2) do mind english but can tolerate broken french
    3) don't mind english but rather work with broken french
    4) do mind english and cannot tolerate broken french

    if you catch #4, then you are gonna have a bad experience. :D

    (of course, i'm generalizing a bit...)

    and i've seen many american people giving people with "funny" accents (but speaking english) hard times in the u.s. :rolleyes:
  22. MongoTheGeek macrumors 68040


    Sep 13, 2003
    Its not so much where you are as when you are.
    I had a friend who as an American went around France speaking German and he said he got along very well like that.

    I know someone who to avoid some of the recent anti-Americanism put a big maple leaf on her bag and let people assume Canadian.

    Perhaps its just paranoid Americans making europeans rude :)
  23. takao macrumors 68040


    Dec 25, 2003
    Dornbirn (Austria)
    well i guess it is easier learn between those romance languagues if you already speak one of them or even latin...

    as a german one i only have easy learning with netherland, or danks because those 2 languages are a little bit like german dialekt with english influences

    german and english are actually in the same language-group
    (but it is still harder to learn german than english because of those articles etc. ... you know the classical "der/die/das vs. the" mistake)

    but i know also a few italians which _hate_ to speak italian, they are living in south-tyrol which was part of austria before WW1 , and they are still speaking german there ...

    for myself i prefere the languages in this order:
    austrian dialekt ( ;) ) -german - english - (french i think i lost grammar the last years)
    thanks to my dialekt i get most of the time mistaken for somebody from switzerland...(even by germans or even austrians !!) not bad... no problems with anybody :D
  24. zamyatin macrumors regular

    Jul 15, 2003

    Three. All three were Argentines or Chileans born at bases on the peninsula. The very first occured because a pregnant woman was shipped to the base so that she would give birth in Antarctica, and the mother country (can't remember which of the two it was) would gain some advantage... They didn't, except to hold an interesting record!

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