Yet another health insurance thread

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by nbs2, Sep 2, 2016.

  1. nbs2 macrumors 68030

    nbs2

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    #1
    Because the previous threads are old, I'm creating a new one - even if the subject is not that different.

    What struck me was the opening paragraph, framing the context of the insurance problem. With apologies to Brad, while there are some more who are being insured now, what is that worth when more can no longer afford the cost of coverage?

    As bad and as costly as the market was before, if it is spiraling even more now, can we call the law broken?

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...consumers-could-threaten-enrollment/89664628/
     
  2. Bug-Creator macrumors 6502

    Bug-Creator

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    #2
    Doesn't premium suggest it is just the top end of the market?

    And remember what Mike Ehrmentraut had to say about half meassures...
     
  3. A.Goldberg macrumors 68000

    A.Goldberg

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    #3
    As long as the cost of medical care can exponentially increase because factors like drug prices are out of control, we will continue to see the cost of insurance rise exponentially as everyone involved decides to take more money for themselves.

    It's the most ridiculous logic ever. You force people to buy healthcare without having a control on pricing? Is the industry not stupid to take advantage of that???
     
  4. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    #4
    All part of the plan for it to fail and offer the "fix" of single payer.
     
  5. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #5
    Except Hillary said there will be no such thing
     
  6. Praxis91 macrumors regular

    Praxis91

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    #6
    "If you like your plan, you can keep your plan."

    "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor."

    The piece of **** in chief lied to everyone. Democrats own the ACA failure 100%.

    We all know it was going to fail when they could not properly launch a website! :oops:
     
  7. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    #7
    The website was to give Michelle ol' college buddy a fortune.
     
  8. thermodynamic Suspended

    thermodynamic

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    #8
    We can definitely say ACA isn't doing some of its intended goals. Maybe that's due to the efforts the big insurance and big pharma lobbyists put into the bill? That sounds no less kooky than any other possibility.
    --- Post Merged, Sep 2, 2016 ---
    Pity it wasn't as big as the Halliburton KBR no-bid contracts Dick Cheney enjoyed, or before, at which point one could make a case. Bush, if nobody before him, allowed the conflict of interest so why are people whining only now?
     
  9. Limey77 macrumors regular

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    #9
    Yet again the fixes are quite simple, BUT those on the right will not allow it. All in the name of maximising profits.

    There's this insane idea that profits need to increase each and every year otherwise your a failure. When is enough enough? You can't keep increasing indefinitely, there needs to be a ceiling and sometimes even a loss - I know the horror!!

    A nationalised health service is the obvious way to go but that's not going to happen. So single payer is the next best.

    If you refuse to accept either then market regulation is the way to go. If an insurer wants to offer policies then it has to offer policies in every exchange - they can't pick and choose were they operate. Profits will be controlled for the first 10-20 years at 10%, anything above that gets a 200% tax rate as a penalty. Premiums should be tied to inflation as a maximum increase. Insurance companies can (and should) offer people a discount for living healthy, so evidence of healthy eating, exercise, quitting smoking etc should lead to a decrease in premium and vice versa.

    Drug prices are fixed at a maximum increase in price linked to inflation during their trademark period. Then half after the trademark has expired.

    I'm sure there's much more that could be done, but once again, the will is not there. People would rather bitch and moan rather than sort it out.
     
  10. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #10
    Alternatively, congress could get together to figure how to make this current plan work.

    But I like your idea better. I'll take single payer over Obamacare any day.
     
  11. 1458279 Suspended

    1458279

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    #11
    So, let me see if I'm understanding the "logic" people are using here.

    Somehow the people that actually designed ObamaCare didn't put in single payer as an option because they didn't see that it would be needed or would be a better avenue. Now, single payer is being thrown out there as the savior. hmmmm...

    Wasn't single payer already discussed? How exactly does single payer fix anything? Does it fix the fundamental problem with ObamaCare? Has anyone here actually identified the fundamental problem with ObamaCare?

    It's amazing that the people that CREATED ObamaCare said it was a deception and yet the people STILL don't see it.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...6bd390a3340_story.html?utm_term=.029657fb9687

    B_1HgN5VAAATDV_.png
     
  12. SHNXX macrumors 68000

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    #12
    Well, this is why we should have the government run the entire health care system.
    Just look at the countries in Europe that aren't bankrupt yet! Why can't we do that?
     
  13. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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  14. SHNXX macrumors 68000

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    #14
    That's ignorant.

    upload_2016-9-3_16-27-44.png

    She's a proud cherokee woman.
     
  15. nbs2 thread starter macrumors 68030

    nbs2

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    #15
    The trouble is, these issues were pretty darn obvious from the beginning.

    Whatever you might say about the right not allowing fixes, the original bill passed without support from the right. The broken results - and what is arguably turning out to have more losing the ability to pay than newly gaining coverage - rest squarely on the left.
     
  16. Limey77 macrumors regular

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    #16
    Not at all!!!!

    The concessions that Obama made just to appease the right have led to the current issues. And I'm sure that they did this deliberately to try and derail the ACA.

    They wrongly believed that a republican was going to win the 2016 election, so did everything they could to scupper the ACA, with the aim of repealing it after they won the WH.

    Now Hillary has 8 years to make it work and it can work very well. America just needs to stop worshipping corporations. There are many, many things that could be done to improve the ACA, but all of its deficits are due to republican indignation.
     
  17. nbs2 thread starter macrumors 68030

    nbs2

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    #17
    Why would concessions to the right be necessary? They didn't control the House and they didn't even have enough to sustain a filibuster in the Senate.

    If he was going to make concessions to get the right, wouldn't he have done a little better on the votes?
     
  18. 1458279 Suspended

    1458279

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    #18
    Interesting that the fixes are quite simple, yet MIT Professor Gruber didn't see them as being needed. Maybe MIT Professor Gruber isn't as smart as the American people.

    Why wouldn't these fixes have been put in there from the start? Single payer like the VA? Dem holdoutS Nelson and Lieberman wouldn't go for it? It wouldn't have been flown because it's socialism.

    How is it that the Gov can't fix the VA, yet some think they can run ALL our healthcare?
    --- Post Merged, Sep 4, 2016 ---
    Wasn't it Nelson and Lieberman that held out against Single Payer? I'm pretty sure the vote count was online. You're right, the GOP got nothing out of ObamaCare, it was a Dem dream and now an American Nightmare.
     
  19. lowendlinux Contributor

    lowendlinux

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    #19
    The compromised with the R's on the public option. That would have put downward pressure on the the market and pretty much set a ceiling on prices. The ACA failed the day they took that out.
     
  20. 1458279 Suspended

    1458279

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    #20
    Wasn't it the Dems that didn't want single payer?

    Wasn't Lieberman a Dem?

    http://www.juancole.com/2011/01/top...done-to-us-by-outgoing-sen-joe-lieberman.html

    I don't see how the Dems would need anything from the R's.
     
  21. Snoopy4 macrumors 6502a

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    #21
    Like I've said before. Obamacare is to insurance premiums what student loans are to college tuition rates.

    --- Post Merged, Sep 4, 2016 ---
    Indeed. All the concessions made were to people in his own party, not the right.
     
  22. nbs2 thread starter macrumors 68030

    nbs2

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    #22
    Again, why compromise? If you own the House, you can pass on a party-line vote. If you have a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate, you can pass on a party-line vote. If you have the White House, you can sign.

    The Democrats had all three. So, if compromise will be bad, and you don't need to compromise, then it's your fault for whatever you pass.

    I agree the ACA had a lot of what industry wanted, but I'm not seeing how the right can own that.
     
  23. Praxis91 macrumors regular

    Praxis91

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    #23
    The goal of the ACA was to destroy the private health system in America, which is the best health care service provider on the planet. It's not cheap, but it's still the best. All the other countries combined don't sniff the amount of innovation coming out of our country.

    Remember: What government gives they can taketh away. It's all about power. The government doesn't care about you. It just wants to grow. Meanwhile, the "elites" in charge exempt themselves from the very laws they pass.

    Gov't runs half of our medical system, unfortunately. Medicare reimbursement is already ****. Doctors and health service providers in general hate dealing with the government. They will give doctors and the providers little to nothing and then the service providers have to charge an arm and a leg to your insurance company. Still, they barely break even. The best hospitals (for example) might make a 10% profit margin after all is said and done.

    We've already seen what happened with the VA. If that's how our veterans are treated, imagine the average Joe.

    Ideally, you would have an actual free market with price transparency. There is no reason to have $25-50 copays for routine checkups that are then billed $350-500 to the insurance company. Everything routine should be out of pocket. Save insurance for actual catastrophies. All drugs should be OTC and available from ****ing Amazon! Charity care will take care of the rest.
     
  24. lowendlinux Contributor

    lowendlinux

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    #24
    Why is compromise bad?

    The pres was new at the time he was reaching across the isle, he offered them in essence their plan and took out the public option. Knowing what we know now I don't he would have compromised but he made the attempt and we have what we have. The makeup of the next Congress will determine how or if we go forward with the ACA I imagine.
     
  25. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #25
    Private healthcare in America has sucked for ages. It was a complete rip off and didn't cover everyone.
     

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