You can have my fireplace ...

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by citizenzen, Mar 11, 2012.

  1. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #1
    ... when you can pry it from my cold, dead, fingers.

    My wife and I smell the fumes and breathe in the smoke from many chimneys spewing smoke in our neighborhood. Some communities regulate wood stoves, requiring catalytic converters or limiting use. Our community does not.

    I'm just curious. Is this another government intrusion on our freedom? Does your community regulate wood burning in any way? Would you welcome such a restriction? Or would you see it as another sign of Big Brother running your life?

    What will you do or say when they come for your fireplace?
     
  2. flopticalcube macrumors G4

    flopticalcube

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    #2
    My area is largely rural and surrounded by temperate rainforest so there are a large amount of wood burning stoves and fireplaces. Some of the nearby (2 km or so) places have restrictions but not here. We are frequented by power outages in the winter and have a large elderly population so I see it as somewhat of a necessary evil. I have a gas line next to my wood stove so I could simply swap out one stove for another. On a high-pressure, low-wind winter's day the air can become heavy with smoke.
     
  3. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #3
    The last Smoke Control Officer in London (employed to enforce the Clean Air Act 1956) was let go some 30 years ago, so there's nobody left to knock on the door.
     
  4. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #4
    Personally I like the smell of wood burning fireplaces (reminds me of winters growing up in the Midwest), but if it starts getting to the point of becoming a health and/or environmental hazard I don't see a problem w/regulating it.


    Lethal
     
  5. BreakGuy macrumors 6502a

    BreakGuy

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    #5
    The government has a duty to protect its citizens from harm, that is why taking hard drugs and breaking the speed limit are also illegal. If this means limiting and regulating wood burning or requiring additional equipment, then so be it.
     
  6. puma1552 macrumors 601

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    #6
    People have had fireplaces for centuries without ill-effect.

    Regulating that is utterly asinine.
     
  7. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #7
    Actually, people have suffered from respiratory problems for centuries because of their fireplaces.
     
  8. flopticalcube macrumors G4

    flopticalcube

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    #8
  9. BreakGuy macrumors 6502a

    BreakGuy

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    #9
    Ignorance at it's finest. Air pollution as a result of wood burners is noted to affect people's health in these ways:
    • Increases and aggravates asthma
    • Creates disease in the airways of children
    • Increases respiratory illness in children
    • Damages the lungs
    • Increases deaths from respiratory and cardiovascular disease
    • Increases hospital admissions for lung and heart disease
    • Causes chest pain and nausea
    • Causes shortness of breath and (faster) labored breathing
    • Permanently changes lung structure.
     
  10. mobilehaathi macrumors G3

    mobilehaathi

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    #10
    On one hand there is smoke...

    On the other hand there is Dick Van Dyke...

     
  11. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #11
    Speaking in generalities if one's actions have a reasonable chance of harming someone else then there needs to be government provisions for that, but if one's actions are only going to harm oneself then I don't think there is any need for the government to step in.

    For example, I don't think there should be a law against excessive alcohol consumption by a person of legal age, even though excessive alcohol consumption can be harmful to oneself. But I do think there should be laws against drinking and driving because now one's alcohol consumption has become a public risk.


    Lethal
     
  12. BreakGuy macrumors 6502a

    BreakGuy

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    #12
    I agree to some extent. Keeping with your example of excessive drinking, if someone has to be admitted to hospital as a result of their alcohol intake they begin costing taxpayers (at least in nations with a free healthcare system) and the government does need to step in and take action. I don't want people thinking they can drink all they can because I as a taxpayer am going to foot the bill for having their stomach pumped and other associated care.
     
  13. localoid macrumors 68020

    localoid

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    #13
    Meanwhile, in Appalachia:

    People living near mountaintop mining have cancer rates of 14.4% compared to 9.4% for people elsewhere in Appalachia, the rate of children born with birth defects is 42% higher in mountaintop removal mining areas, and the public health costs of pollution from coal operations in Appalachia amount to a staggering $75 billion a year. (source)

    But as long as the folk living in the more populated regions of the country have an abundance of cheap and "clean" electrical power to heat their homes and recharge their hybrids, few people living outside Appalachia will concern themselves with the ill effects of mountaintop removal.

    Go figure...
     
  14. jnpy!$4g3cwk macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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    #14
    "Take it!" I had mine removed some years ago. If I live out in the country (again), I would love to have a fireplace. They don't make sense in cities, and they do cause significant pollution.
     
  15. puma1552 macrumors 601

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    #15
    Then here's my take: if you are choking to death on the neighbor's chimney smoke, sell your house, move into the mountains, and quit whining like a pansy.

    When did this country turn so soft? The edges of the Macbook Pro and iPhone are too sharp, and my neighbor's chimney smoke is just destroying the air I breathe.

    This country needs to get a grip.
     
  16. citizenzen thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #16
    I'm not sure why you'd think mountaintop removal isn't a concern of those outside your region. Progressives have long been calling for greater environmental regulations and a move away from fossil fuels to mitigate climate change.

    It's the "drill baby, drill" mentality that leads to removing mountaintops.

    We should always consider the long-term impacts on both humans and the environment when it comes to our energy needs. But for too long all we've cared about is extracting as much as we can, as fast as we can extract it.

    Now we're "fracking" despite numerous claims that it's effecting ground water supplies. All the while the natural gas industry is waving off the worries saying, "Fracking takes place miles below the surface. There's no way it can effect ground water supplies." Pardon me if I'm skeptical of their lack of concern.

    ----------

    He's precious.

    Dont'cha just want to hug him? :D
     
  17. joepunk macrumors 68030

    joepunk

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    #17
    or from other peoples fireplaces.

    :rolleyes:

    Last year during a long cold and dry november I had a month long allergy problems when people throughout my neighbourhood/city continuously used their fireplaces.
     
  18. puma1552 macrumors 601

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    #18
    Maybe you shouldn't have moved into a neighborhood or city where people have dastardly fireplaces?

    Man up or move out IMO.
     
  19. citizenzen thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #19
    Just to cross-contaminate two threads completely, aren't you the same guy who had this take on marijuana smoke and why we shouldn't legalize it ...?

    So pardon my confusion. Are you for or against people having to breathe in other people's smoke?

    Because according to these two conversations, it would appear that you were against it, before you were for it.
     
  20. puma1552, Mar 11, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2012

    puma1552 macrumors 601

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    #20
    There's a difference. When you are in your home, you don't smell other people's chimney smoke.

    When you are in an apartment, you can smell other people's pot smoke. Furthermore, in an apartment you are tied to the terms of a lease and are at the mercy of the landlord. Further still, when you are concerned about chimney smoke, you can look around the neighborhood for chimneys before you sign papers. Can't tell you have a pothead neighbor until after you sign a lease.

    Apples to oranges.
     
  21. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #21
    It depends on where you are, if you're in a place where you could smell their pot smoke it's probably densely populated enough that you'll smell the smoke from the chimneys if everyone is burning it. As far as if it should be regulated or not I think that depends on the area, if it's a densely populated area where the smoke tends to hang in one place over the city it probably should be, if not then it may not be necessary. This is one area that I think it's best to have the city/county government decide if it's necesarry or not.
     
  22. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #22
    That hasn't stopped people from smoking 10 packs a day and getting lung cancer years later.

    When we had the snow storm power outage last October everyone was using fireplaces and it did cause air quality alerts. This of course was a very unique event with 80% of the state in the dark and once the winds shifted the smoke cleared.

    I don't think there is a high percentage of people using fireplaces on a regular basis to cause concern.
     
  23. mobilehaathi, Mar 11, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2012

    mobilehaathi macrumors G3

    mobilehaathi

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    #23
    Surely people drink excessively for reasons other than knowing they can get taxpayer funded stomach pumps. Society might consider staunching upstream causes of drug abuse rather than fretting about the costs of any particular individual's night of excess.
     
  24. localoid macrumors 68020

    localoid

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    #24
    Oh I dunno... Why would I think that? Maybe because of the fact that mountaintop removal is still ongoing while (as you pointed out in your OP) at least some areas do "regulate wood stoves" (I assume, largely due health concerns).



    Yes... now lots of folks are all stirred up about fracking -- because it might (gasp!) have an adverse effect on their groundwater.

    In 2010, the EPA estimated that almost 2,000 miles of Appalachian headwater streams had been buried by mountaintop coal mining.

    "Mountaintop removal is a form of surface coal mining in which explosives are used to access coal seams, generating large volumes of waste that bury adjacent streams. The resulting waste that then fills valleys and streams can significantly compromise water quality, often causing permanent damage to ecosystems and rendering streams unfit for swimming, fishing and drinking. " (source)

    Why has the subject of groundwater pollution suddenly a hot issue of great concern among these good folks when during the past few decades mountaintop removal has been having the same sort of ill effect on groundwater?

    I think it's primarily because fracking is something more widespread than mountaintop mining, which is primarily confined to only three states.
     
  25. SteveAbootman macrumors 6502a

    SteveAbootman

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    #25
    Really? No. The govnerment shouldn't get involved in something like this.

    Externalities exist in the world because human beings live in it. One neighbor upset at smoke inhalation is another neighbor upset at the barking dog next door. The government can't act in every situation someone finds undesirable. You can sight health facts for just about everything; including the barking dog for because of it barking at all hours of the night, sleep cycles are disrupted resulting in the lack of scientifically proven quality REM sleep. As a result, job performance suffers and the ability to earn an honest living is greatly diminished.
     

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