You Cannot Win a Trade War

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by vrDrew, Dec 5, 2016.

  1. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #1
    One of the first victims of such a war would b a company dear to many of us: Apple

    The damage wouldn't be limited to Apple, as an editorial in China's state-run Global Times suggests:

    There are several real points of difference between the US and China: It's illegal building of artificial islands in the South China Sea; it's continued suppression of dissidents and human rights; and - in a number of valid cases, indications of unfair trade practices such as dumping steel and theft of US intellectual property. The US already has in place mechanisms to address these issues with China in a manner that minimizes the risks of such disputes flaring into a wider and deeper conflict.

    Blaming the Chinese Government for American consumers' fondness for cheap, well-made products is absurd. Starting a trade war over its is recklessness beyond reason.
     
  2. pdqgp, Dec 5, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2016

    pdqgp macrumors 68020

    pdqgp

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    At the end of the day Americans and our Gov't need to decide if we want cheap products and select a race to the bottom in terms of pricing and labor costs or if we are willing to have more control and say over our products, produced right here with our own people being paid a higher wage. We know what Wall Street and investors want and we are experiencing what that gets us.

    We need fair trade that balanced out the cost of goods to consumers. Should products really cost less just because another country has lower paid workers? Level off the costs so that country's can't steal our production through cheap labor rates and companies won't benefit from all the other incentives they offer to do so. Then perhaps they will stay, the products will cost the same to consumers regardless and American buyers can make their decision on other factors instead of price. With that will come people here being employed and making a decent wage.
     
  3. TPadden macrumors 6502a

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    You Cannot Win a Trade War

    Depends on who you is, there will always be winners and "non-winners". It's probably OK to say losers now but I know how despondent some currently are :(.
     
  4. vrDrew thread starter macrumors 65816

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    Well, actually you can win a trade war. But you do it by building better products, that you can sell more profitably than your competitors.
     
  5. TPadden macrumors 6502a

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    Great; game/ war on!
     
  6. bbrks macrumors 65816

    bbrks

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  7. DearthnVader macrumors 6502

    DearthnVader

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    #7
    When I go to the store and buy something, I don't say I "Traded" for it, I say, I "Bought" it.

    A trade is when I give the other party something of value, and they give me something of value in return, not money.

    I'm all for open trade, China trades for our products and services, and we trade for their's. Not we buy their **** and they don't buy ours.
     
  8. pdqgp macrumors 68020

    pdqgp

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    Chinese phone makers selling products made with their cheap labor can be profitable. Americans just need to realize that our phone makers need to pay higher labor if they build the phones here so they too are profitable. What that means is the cost of the phones here may be more but that we should also prevent the Chinese products from undercutting our home-grown goods on selling price simply because they have low labor rates. That can be done through many different measures.

    It can be done. Honda's are made right here in Ohio and sell for a decent price. They use American labor rates and workers.
     
  9. R.Perez macrumors 6502

    R.Perez

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    #9
    I agree with you on this. Never mind that those labor savings at the expense of workers (both here and abroad) have gone right into the pockets of corporate executives.
     
  10. TPadden macrumors 6502a

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    #10
    Bad Apple??????? :mad:
     
  11. pdqgp macrumors 68020

    pdqgp

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    #11
    welcome to the real world where people who play the victim card get the card they played.
     
  12. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #12
    You cannot win a war against robots, AI and automation. The manufacturing jobs will be replaced worldwide because it is profitable to do so. The manufacturing might come back to the US. The jobs won't. Instead we need to retrain people and to provide better social support when they lose their jobs.

    Also trade wars are just the first step toward shooting wars.
     
  13. TPadden macrumors 6502a

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    Grasshopper,

    The surest way to lose is to start with the premise that you can't win. :eek:

    The second surest way is to start with the premise you can't lose. :)

    Tom
     
  14. vrDrew thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #14
    Google tried that with its Moto X phone is 2013. It failed Why?

     
  15. TPadden macrumors 6502a

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    Perhaps, it was due to the political leadership in 2013. Sorry, it was such an easy target......:D
     
  16. steve knight macrumors 68020

    steve knight

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    isn't this the result of capitalism and the greed that it creates? How would you change that it makes business in business to make a profit over to produce a result or a product? to take care of the customer first before taking care of the shareholders?
     
  17. pdqgp macrumors 68020

    pdqgp

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    #17
    tried that in a broken system.
     
  18. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #18

    [​IMG]
    (source: Business Insider, link)
     
  19. DUCKofD3ATH Suspended

    DUCKofD3ATH

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    #19
    China plays the trade game the same way the Japanese do: unfairly. Trump will level the playing field, and if the Chinese don't like it, well, they can trade with one of the other superpower turbo economies because Americans are tired of being all-day suckers.
     
  20. TPadden macrumors 6502a

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    Yes but the chart is the inverse when the standard of living for robots is plotted against humans :D!
     
  21. lowendlinux Contributor

    lowendlinux

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    #21
    Apple isn't dear to my heart and hasn't been for more than a decade. If Apple were to go out of business tomorrow I'd not lose a moment of sleep Apple is a corporate scoundrel and I hope the EU gives them their comeuppance.
     
  22. TPadden macrumors 6502a

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    Apple will probably outlive the EU ....... just stirring the pot..... no fan of either.
     
  23. lowendlinux Contributor

    lowendlinux

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    #23
    I doubt it
     
  24. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

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    #24
    China's debt is climbing rapidly and their bubble will burst at any moment. Trump better hope his timing is right, cause when(not if) China causes a global recession, he'll be partly to blame if it's in the near future.
     
  25. Raid macrumors 68020

    Raid

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    #25
    A level playing field with China is near impossible, you'd have to cut labour wages, protections on intellectual property, and throw out a number of environmental, and safety regulations to 'complete at their' level, and that would hurt a lot of Americans in the pocket books, lungs, and kidneys (just to mention a few organs).

    If you tried to institute a tariff on China's goods then it's going to get expensive for Americans, better for government revenues, and maybe they'd start to change their ways ... but it would be slow, very slow.
     

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