You could be arrested in Arizona just for planning a protest

Thomas Veil

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Feb 14, 2004
2,435
5,496
OBJECTIVE reality
This is just un-American:

Arizona state senators passed a law that allows police to arrest people involved in planning or participating in a peaceful protest because they’re afraid people taking to the streets to protest in the first days of President Donald Trump’s administration are being paid.

The legislation, if passed by the Arizona House, would give law enforcement the ability to criminally prosecute and seize assets of people who plan or participate in a protest. The bill furthers the reach of the state’s racketeering laws to include rioting, which it redefines as any action that causes property damage. Racketeering has traditionally been targeted at organized crime.

The law makes anyone at a protest guilty by association if even just one person turns violent or begins damaging property. The police would have the right to arrest anyone present and criminally prosecute them, even if they personally were peacefully protesting and had not engaged in any violent or destructive behavior.
And the justification?

Arizona Republican state Sen. John Kavanagh asserted the bill was necessary because recent protests haven’t been organic.

“You now have a situation where you have full-time, almost professional agent-provocateurs that attempt to create public disorder,’’ he said. “A lot of them are ideologues, some of them are anarchists.”...

White House spokesman Sean Spicer has said “protesting has become a profession now” and the demonstrations since Trump came into office were not like the “organic uprising” of the tea party movement that grew out of opposition to former President Barack Obama. Spicer did not provide any instances in which paid protesters were found at demonstrations.

The bill was passed Wednesday on a party line vote, with Arizona Democrats arguing the bill would repress First Amendment rights to protest and could allow an entire group to be arrested during a demonstration even if someone from an outside group starts violence.
This "paid protester" BS that is being pushed by the right wing media is a slap in the face to all Americans. And speaking of non-organic, wouldn't it be something if we found out this "law" originated with ALEC?

So now Arizona may have a "law" that is justified via propaganda that is also supported by the White House. And if this passes and/or other states start taking up similar laws, I have to ask...

Do you still think fascism isn't coming to America?
 

flyinmac

macrumors 68040
Sep 2, 2006
3,582
2,408
United States
The old test built into the law is intent.

You can assemble and speak peacefully if your intent is to convey an idea without antagonizing, or inciting a riot.

We have the freedom of speech, but it is limited and rightfully so, to maintain peace.

It has been very clear that anti-Trump protests are meant to stir up the public.

Now, if they apply for a permit, and wish to peacefully assemble to sit in the park and meditate during a hunger strike, the government couldn't stop them.

But if they want to shout out hate speech about any person, political party, etc. which everyone knows will stir up emotions and create a hostile environment, then it is the law to prevent it.

Now, if the democrats wish to assemble and shout out their frustrations among themselves in a private location, they can do so.

If they wish to do the same, but around people who are likely to have a different perspective, then they are intending (by definition of law) to incite a riot.

As for those who assemble with them, even if you don't commit violence, the standard accessory to a crime does apply.

Suppose you're out with friends. One decides to beat up an old lady. You stood there and watched. Legally, if you didn't try to stop it, and you didn't try to get authorities to help, you are an accessory to the crime.

I have no love for Trump. But the riot act is getting ridiculous.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/315/568

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/fighting_words

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/first_amendment

http://kellywarnerlaw.com/limits-on-free-speech/

http://www.uscourts.gov/about-federal-courts/educational-resources/about-educational-outreach/activity-resources/what-does
 
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steve knight

macrumors 68030
Jan 28, 2009
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So now Arizona is somehow going to judge who is doing a real protest and who is not? I can't see this law lasting any time at all.
 
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noekozz

macrumors 6502a
Jun 29, 2010
604
1,019
212/201
Don't worry guys, in about a year or two this nation will turn into a Police State. Sessions is at the helm, and the combination of Bannon and Trump will see that this comes to fruition. First we build a wall and impose a travel ban in order to isolate ourselves and keep immigrants out, then we arrest those protesting against the government, and finally we suppress the free Press/Media from publishing negative content of any type in regards to the POTUS and the WH.

Some may call me crazy, but it's already taking shape and Steve will make sure of that. Fear not guys, it's all part of our Make America Great campaign where we turn back the clock to the good ol days of rotor phones and women in the Kitchen where they belong.
 

DrewDaHilp1

macrumors 6502a
Mar 29, 2009
578
11,573
All Your Memes Are Belong to US
Your source says peaceful protest but the source's source says those who participate in violent protest.
[doublepost=1487949813][/doublepost]
Don't worry guys, in about a year or two this nation will turn into a Police State. Sessions is at the helm, and the combination of Bannon and Trump will see that this comes to fruition. First we build a wall and impose a travel ban in order to isolate ourselves and keep immigrants out, then we arrest those protesting against the government, and finally we suppress the free Press/Media from publishing negative content of any type in regards to the POTUS and the WH.

Some may call me crazy, but it's already taking shape and Steve will make sure of that. Fear not guys, it's all part of our Make America Great campaign where we turn back the clock to the good ol days of rotor phones and women in the Kitchen where they belong.
"Gun Nuts" might not be so nuts now huh.
 

LizKat

macrumors 603
Aug 5, 2004
5,316
29,759
Catskill Mountains
It's completely unconstitutional.

Because I march in a peaceful (if noisy!) protest or plan a peaceful (if noisy!) protest, I'm not responsible for some jerk comes along and breaks a window and yells "yeah get em! F the world!" For all I know the window breaking jerk is an anarchist or a provocateur from political opposition trying to get the marchers busted.

Laws passed have consequences. The one referenced in this thread's OP links would sting the Tea Party or any other right-leaning group next time they feel like dragging out 2A references to taking out the ACA or any other legislation they don't care for. And of course it might not occur to these law-passing idiots that the next step in Trump's march to the OneTrueGod is fixing the commas in the 2A so it enables only HisMilitia to threaten to fix things in America at the point of a gun.
 

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DrewDaHilp1

macrumors 6502a
Mar 29, 2009
578
11,573
All Your Memes Are Belong to US
no you don't have to love it but to deny protesters before they do anything is illegal.
This is for you Steve,


"A. A person commits conspiracy if, with the intent to promote or aid the commission of an offense, such person agrees with one or more persons that at least one of them or another person will engage in conduct constituting the offense and one of the parties commits an overt act in furtherance of the offense, except that an overt act shall not be required if the object of the conspiracy was to commit any felony upon ON the person of another, or to commit an offense under section 13‑1508, or 13‑1704 OR 13‑2903.

B. If a person guilty of conspiracy, as defined in subsection A of this section, knows or has reason to know that a person with whom such person conspires to commit an offense has conspired with another person or persons to commit the same offense, such person is guilty of conspiring to commit the offense with such other person or persons, whether or not such person knows their identity.

C. A person who conspires to commit a number of offenses is guilty of only one conspiracy if the multiple offenses are the object of the same agreement or relationship and the degree of the conspiracy shall be determined by the most serious offense conspired to.

D. Conspiracy to commit a class 1 felony is punishable by a sentence of life imprisonment without possibility of release on any basis until the service of twenty‑five years, otherwise, conspiracy is an offense of the same class as the most serious offense which is the object of or result of the conspiracy."


Nowhere in the statute mentions that you can be jailed for planning a protest.
 

Populism

macrumors regular
Jun 11, 2014
185
2,970
Gotta love when protesters turn rioters and smash starbucks windows.
"Rioter" is a pejorative term and it should be against the law to use it.

The proper term for someone looting the Mom and Pop convenience store and destroying a Starbucks is "a Civil Disobedience-er."
 

s2mikey

macrumors 68020
Sep 23, 2013
2,462
2,520
Upstate, NY
This is just un-American:

And the justification?


This "paid protester" BS that is being pushed by the right wing media is a slap in the face to all Americans. And speaking of non-organic, wouldn't it be something if we found out this "law" originated with ALEC?

So now Arizona may have a "law" that is justified via propaganda that is also supported by the White House. And if this passes and/or other states start taking up similar laws, I have to ask...

Do you still think fascism isn't coming to America?
Well, George Soros DID fund some of the protests so lets not pretend that doesnt happen. Many of thse so-called protesters are professionals. They are at EVERY protest. Thats what they "do". So pardon "normal" poeple for getting tired of the incessant whining and complaining. Geezus. Get a life. Maybe a job? Maybe a hobby?
 
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tgara

macrumors 6502a
Jul 17, 2012
993
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Connecticut, USA
This "paid protester" BS that is being pushed by the right wing media is a slap in the face to all Americans. And speaking of non-organic, wouldn't it be something if we found out this "law" originated with ALEC?

So now Arizona may have a "law" that is justified via propaganda that is also supported by the White House. And if this passes and/or other states start taking up similar laws, I have to ask...

Do you still think fascism isn't coming to America?
Now, now. You've been very wrong about conservatives in the past. I must again remind you of your previous rant about certain conservative groups starting violent riots. You were correct about the violence, but completely and totally wrong about who would be committing it, as illustrated in the various riots being committed since January 20.

What sometimes happens, especially with fanatical people, is that when they feel boxed in, they lash out. I'm wondering if, as they feel their political influence wane, they'll turn to other, perhaps more violent methods.
Correct on the violent methods. But it's the loony left wing progressives who are doing it, not conservatives. Objective reality, indeed. :rolleyes:

And as to the "BS" about paid protestors, it's common knowledge that George Soros funds these deadbeats. Last year, there were ads on Craigslist. I think he pays $15/hour, which is more than they pay at McDonalds. No bennies, but good work if you can get it (provided you don't get arrested). :D
 

NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
12,141
13,986
Well, George Soros DID fund some of the protests so lets not pretend that doesnt happen. Many of thse so-called protesters are professionals. They are at EVERY protest. Thats what they "do". So pardon "normal" poeple for getting tired of the incessant whining and complaining. Geezus. Get a life. Maybe a job? Maybe a hobby?



Who is "they"? You're saying there is a roving gang of individuals that are at every protest? Who? As in, you can point to individuals?
 
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BernyMac

macrumors regular
May 18, 2015
200
656
USA
I keep wondering if those same people who protest the Alec Baldwin impersonator and fear that he is ushering in a fascist order also want gun control???
 

JayMysterio

macrumors 6502a
Apr 24, 2010
660
11,990
Rock Ridge, California
Has anyone actually ever provided any physical documented proof or evidence of 'paid protesters'?

I mean besides the O'Keefe related individual who wanted to hire people to riot at Trump's inauguration to falsely blame liberals? Is his organization the reason a law is needed?

I've seen many times people blaming George Soros for everything liberal related, but they never show any documentation. This paid protester line has been trotted out, but I never see the money trail. And now laws are being passed on this supposed narrative? :confused:
 

0007776

Suspended
Jul 11, 2006
6,474
8,051
Somewhere
And as to the "BS" about paid protestors, it's common knowledge that George Soros funds these deadbeats. Last year, there were ads on Craigslist. I think he pays $15/hour, which is more than they pay at McDonalds. No bennies, but good work if you can get it (provided you don't get arrested). :D
Any source for that that isn't a conspiracy website? And anyone can post an ad on Craigslist for the purposes of trolling people who think that protesters are paid. The right is making the same mistake in dismissing these protesters that the left did in dismissing the tea party protesters, although at least the left just ignored them instead of trying to have them arrested.
 
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Mac'nCheese

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Feb 9, 2010
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[doublepost=1487949813][/doublepost]
"Gun Nuts" might not be so nuts now huh.
Would love to see that video continued. Does anyone call her on it? Does she say anything more? All the posted ones I see are cut off right after she says "our job"
 

pat500000

Suspended
Jun 3, 2015
8,515
7,386
I wonder if these protesters have real jobs and not those paid jobs from Craigslist to scream and smash things.