You want universal health care? You WILL get universal health care.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by nbs2, Sep 4, 2007.

  1. nbs2 macrumors 68030

    nbs2

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    #1
    The idea of providing everybody with healthcare has always bothered me. If the government is the sole insurance provider, that would mean that it would dictate to the market what costs would be, and create a secondary cash market that would continue to benefit the rich. If the government was an option, in addition to private insurance, then I don't see why we don't just call it an overhaul of the medicare/aid system instead of touting it as something new?

    Anyway, I frame this with the above because if John Edwards has his way, either some or all of us are going to be forced to go to the doctor. Is going to the Dr. a good thing? Yes. Should people do it? Yes. Should the government be in the business of mandating that we all go to the doctor? No.
     
  2. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    #2
    A fix of some of the things that do push up the cost of healthcare can't compete with the mentality of getting something for nothing to a certain percentage of the electorate.

    Fortunately, John Edwards has no chance of winning the primaries, so it's just a matter of how far into this issue the main candidates will go.
     
  3. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #3
    The Edwards plan really isn't explained here, but the premise of requiring preventative care in order to be eligible for government assisted health insurance is supported by at least some economic logic. It would keep health costs lower.

    I believe at least two of the Democratic candidates are calling for expanding the Medicare system to allow under-65s to join. If this happens, some strings are bound to be attached. One might be that you can't wait until you're really ill to use it.
     
  4. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #4
    How refreshing that would be.
     
  5. MACDRIVE macrumors 68000

    MACDRIVE

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    #5
    The VA makes me show up to the doctor every 3 months for a chat; otherwise, they'll quit giving me my free anti-psychotic drugs. :)
     
  6. xsedrinam macrumors 601

    xsedrinam

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    #6
    To those who are opposed to universal health care, tweaked or untweaked, are you saying you are satisfied with the present U.S. health care package? If so, how can you justify a present program which leaves some 45 million including children uncovered? How can you justify exorbitant medicinal costs in the U.S.? If part of that justification entails "research", do you also justify the pharmaceutical lobbyist machine in Washington?

    If you ARE opposed to a universal health care package, what alternative solutions do you propose to cure the present situation? Or are you content with the status quo?
     
  7. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #7
    Are you sure they're working anyway? ;)
     
  8. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #8
    I've yet to hear a realistic proposal from the other side as well. All you ever hear is "tort reform" which isn't going to really help much. If the insurance industry was tightly regulated, it might work- but we all know how much that side hates regulation. Although, to be fair- I did hear Swarmlord mention the "R" word once. ;) It was so shocking I nearly keeled over.
     
  9. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    #9
    I'm not opposed to universal health care, although I'm a little wary of the conseqences of it. 300 million people plus thoses who aren't citizens getting free health care is probably going to raise taxes..a bit. Most here don't trust the government as far as they could throw it but they're all to willing to trust them with your healthcare. I'm not saying the current system doesn't have its flaws, but its worked perfectly for me so far at $720 a month. I'm all in favor of universal health care for people under 18. I would pay a little more each year in taxes so that all children could get fixed for free in the true spirit of "it takes a village to raise a child." But from the experience I have from being in Japan and their version of healthcare I can tell you that a medical problem taking 3 days in the hospital here in the states would take 3 weeks over there. Given the over-polite nature of the Japanese that time frame makes some sense but it would be much different here in the US and expensive. The culture in the US is "grab what you can get" based on capitalism. Switching the mentality of these people here from what it is now to "lend a hand to your fellow in need" may be more difficult than re-vamping our current healthcare system.
     
  10. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #10
    However, with all the vaunted efficiency and speed, you get this:
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/03/AR2005110301143.html
     
  11. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    #11
    That clears up so many questions...
     
  12. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    #12
    There's definitely problems that could be ironed out in our healthcare system.

    The only socialialization of any industry that I would support whole heartedly would be for lawyers and the legal industry in general. There was yet another class action suit settled last week where the lawyers got half ($70 million in this case) and the other half was to be divided amongst 32,000 people. Reading about extortion like that just makes me scream.
     
  13. xsedrinam macrumors 601

    xsedrinam

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    #13
    Well, at least the legal system has seen to it that Leona Helmsly's dog will have good medical care 'til it expires. Yes, that's OT, and still in my craw.

    You mention earlier that a U.S. mindset exists which will be difficult to change. I'm hoping it will. But we can't wait for all the Leonas to die first before something is done to address the needed attention being made accessible to all, regardless of ethnicity or financial status.
     
  14. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #14
    And how is it extortion when a lawyer makes that as opposed to Ken Lay?

    I heard about a CEO last week that earned $70 million and the rest was divided amongst 32,000 people. Does that kind of extortion make you want to scream? I wonder why not....

    You I'm sure will argue that a good CEO is worth whatever he get's paid, right? Whatever the market will bear? Why is a good lawyer only worth what you think he should be, as opposed to what the market will pay him?
     
  15. Lyle macrumors 68000

    Lyle

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    #15
    I'm curious about how they define "out-of-pocket" expenses...
     
  16. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

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    #16
    Nope, they are only working on one person in here, if there were enough to go around I'm quite sure the political section would change for the better. :eek:
     
  17. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    #17
    I got no love for the outrageous salary discrepancies that CEOs are paid over their employees. However, someone decided that person was worth a certain salary and benefits no matter how absurd.

    I want to know who came up with the scheme where lawyers can take a percentage of a class action suit, award themselves half of it rather than calculating a reasonable fee and expenses.
     
  18. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #18
    It's the same person who came up with outrageous salaries for CEOs. You seem to think that's OK, so why can't lawyers do it too? It's just laissez faire capitalism which you seem to love so much.
     
  19. MACDRIVE macrumors 68000

    MACDRIVE

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    #19

    LOL! . . . [​IMG]
     
  20. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

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    #20
    If you can pay, go to the hospital resort.

    If you can't stand in the triage line.

    I know my dentist refuses to deal with insurance, and some doctors and clinics have ditched them also. Pay cash, and let the patient try to get money back from their insurance company.

    ---

    Basically forcing people to go to the doctor may help with preventative care and dealing with things before they get expensive.

    If there is adequate funding available for prevention.

    Otherwise it is as useful as pissing into the wind.

    Since it'll be a govt. program, I doubt prevention would get the funding it needs. Since it isn't an immediate medical problem, and may not see any returns for decades.
     
  21. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #21
    You are kidding, right? I'd stop going to that dentist or doctor. I couldn't afford it, and I'm sure the insurance company would screw you out of your money.
     
  22. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #22
    I don't think the Edwards plan would work. Obama's is practically nonexistant as well. Hillary blew it before, hoping she doesn't again if she gets in. But we do need something, especially for children. Start with moderate regulation. Insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, corporations, all of them. Offering a low cost or no cost option for those in certain situations, the way they already do with the very poor, elderly, and disabled. Especially if, even with regulation, they still can't get affordable coverage. Medicare and Medicaid need overhauls as well, but in pretty much the opposite direction the current administration has been taking it. Like negotiating for lower prescription prices. We've already done tort reform, some of which was needed, but it hasn't really changed much of anything as anyone who knows anything about the system could have told you.

    We're already paying for it, about time we actually got something for our troubles.
     
  23. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #23
    Those w/o insurance today can just stand in line at the ER and get treated w/o having to pay. Guess who picks up those costs? An unintended, and expensive, version of universal health care is already available. As the ranks of uninsured grow so will the number of non-emergency visits to the ER to get "free" treatment.

    Like where to get free drugs?


    Lethal
     
  24. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #24
    This is the crux of the matter. Ask practically any EMT, and you'll hear plenty of stories about their local "frequent flyers".

    We've already got universal health coverage. Let's find a way to reduce the cost of it by not providing it via the emergency room.
     
  25. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #25
    I make that argument every time, that we're already paying for it, but it falls on deaf ears.
     

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