Young Political Majors Owner Arrested for Voter Registration Fraud

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Peace, Oct 19, 2008.

  1. Peace macrumors Core

    Peace

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    #1
    Here's some real voter registration fraud :

    http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_10762949?source=most_emailed



    "Earlier this year, dozens of voters accused YPM, which had been hired by the California Republican Party, of tricking them into registering as Republicans. The voters said they thought they were signing a petition calling for stiffer penalties for child molesters."
     
  2. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #2
    I hope the dems actually pick this up and trump that acorn crap.
     
  3. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #3
    Yeah, I mentioned that here, but nobody picked up on it.

    And as I said there (and NT1440 said here), let's hope the Obama campaign uses this to attack McCain. Enough with the ACORN BS.

    Obama needs to start going back on the attack, instead of defending himself against a bunch of baloney charges by the Republicans.
     
  4. jplan2008 macrumors regular

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    #4
    The problem is the media would have to pick up on it, and they mostly haven't, and they won't.

    There's a good article about a big drive the Republicans did in 2006 in California, with the same problems ACORN had. There was possibly a bigger percentage of bad forms for the GOP, and unlike ACORN, they didn't flag the bad ones for the election officials. But the national media doesn't cover this stuff.

    http://oxdown.firedoglake.com/diary/756

    "Faked names on voter registration forms. Error rates as high as 60 percent. Firing the people responsible for these errors. Investigations launched by local and state police. Sound familiar? This is not ACORN in the 2008 election's final days.

    This is the California Republican Party and its contractors in 2006, when the same problems that are now dogging ACORN and providing political fodder for GOP attacks plagued an effort by California Republicans to register 750,000 people.

    The details were all spelled out in a series of Los Angeles Times stories, which quoted former California Democratic Party Chairman Art Torres saying these kinds of errors are inevitable "when you use private vendors." Even the state's top election official in 2006, Republican Bruce McPherson, was forced to investigate his own party's actions.

    These same issues surfaced again last week as ACORN, the low-income advocacy organization which ran 2008's largest voter drive apart from political parties with 1.3 million new voters, was hammered by the GOP for submitting falsified voter registrations. ...

    The only thing ACORN's errors prove is that mistakes in big voter registration drives are inevitable, no matter who conducts them. When you look at all the other problems in the nation's voting systems -- from poorly designed ballots to electronic machines that lose votes cast -- the larger truth is every aspect of American elections is imperfect....

    But let's put ACORN's errors in perspective. More than 120 million Americans may vote in November. ACORN, which hired 13,000 workers to register 1.3 million voters, had a few bad hires - like any big company.

    But unlike the California GOP in its 2006 voter drive, ACORN has a policy of telling local election officials when it believes it has fraudulent registrations. It is required by states to submit all voter applications and urges election officials to prosecute knowing mistakes. The current case against ACORN comes from its own disclosures.

    ACORN has not said how many bad registrations were flagged in 2008, but one nationwide estimate was 10,000. What is ACORN's error rate then? It would be less than one percent. Yes, in one Indiana County a third or more of its submissions were bad. In 2006, contractors for the California Republican Party had local error rates of 60 percent in San Bernadino County, the Los Angeles Times reported, where 1,800 out of 3,000 submitted registrations were incomplete and could not be processed.

    How does ACORN's nationwide error rate compare to other voter registration problems? The data is thin, academics say. But two statistics are telling.

    A 2007 National Science Foundation report for the U.S. Election Assistance Commission found county election workers who entered voter information into county databases made mistakes 5 percent of time, if poorly trained. This is not the same as making up a voter's name, which is a prosecutable offense, but not all of ACORN's errors are fake names. Some are the same people filling out more then one voter registration form.

    This month in Columbus, Ohio, Franklin County Board of Elections Deputy Director Matt Damschroder said about 2.5 percent of the 200,000 new voter registrations turned into his office in 2008 could not be processed because of typos, unreadable writing or missing information. He said that error rate was pretty good.

    Moreover, in gathering signatures for ballot measures, it is a common practice for their sponsors to turn in "150 percent of the legal requirement," said Richard Winger, editor of Ballot Access News. "With some people, you can't read their hand writing."

    Nobody in the national media is praising ACORN for an accuracy rate of 99 percent in its voter registration drive. Nobody praised the California Republican Party for an accuracy rate that probably also was in the 90th percentile in 2006.

    But the real issue here is not whether any enterprise with 13,000 employees can make a mistake. The real issue is whether mistakes were caught, which they were - hence the Republican's political field day - and how do ACORN's voter registration problems compare in size and scope with the other problems concerning a fair 2008 election?

    Last week, the New York Times reported that states using Social Security data to verify and update voter lists found 2.4 million "non-matches" for existing and new voters this year through September. The Social Security Administration says its data can be wrong 28.5 percent of the time when used this way, Wired Magazine reported in September.

    Now that is something to really worry about, if the November 4th vote count is close in battleground states and the parties start fighting ballot by ballot - not whether ACORN or the California Republican Party submitted a few thousand bad voter registration forms in a nation or state where tens of millions of people will be voting."
     
  5. Delta608 macrumors regular

    Delta608

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    #5
    I just reported this thread. It's useless and meant to antagonize the populous of MR.

    Wasteland imho.
     
  6. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #6
    How in the hell does this thread require a report? Its like any other thread with a topic.

    also, way to bump a thread that would have gone to a higher number page.
     
  7. TheAnswer macrumors 68030

    TheAnswer

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    #7
    I guess we'll have to see if the mods agree. This one is based on an actual news story and not just speculation, as your thread from earlier today.
     
  8. bartelby macrumors Core

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    #8
    Oh. Now I understand...
     
  9. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    #9
    This thread is kosher. Feuding over post reports isn't. Best to not publicly post that you've reported something, anyway.
     
  10. iShater macrumors 604

    iShater

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    #10
    Any side that is committing fraud on purpose should be prosecuted. On the same token, any side that is doing it by accident (staffer, incorrect info, etc.) should be given the benefit of the doubt and allowed to defend themselves.

    Too bad neither sides follows these simple rules. :(
     
  11. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #11
    Good luck with that.

    What's with some people getting ridiculously contentious lately? Imho, the closer we get to the election, the closer we're getting to having this forum shut down for a few days, the way it happened four years ago.

    If people don't settle down, that is.

    And it's "populace". Although we are pretty populous as well.

    I do agree with jplan that this probably isn't going to get much media. It doesn't seem to have gone too far past the California papers. Another case of IOIYAR.
     
  12. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    #12
    There hasn't been any discussion of closing this forum this time around.

    As long as everybody uses their good sense, I'd like to keep it open. This is an historic election at a crucial time and people should be allowed to talk about it. I don't mind moderating it where necessary; it's hardly a burden.
     
  13. 3rdpath macrumors 68000

    3rdpath

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    #13
    i certainly have no idea of this organization's original intent but i'll speculate that like ACORN, they've sent $8/hr "staffers" out to gather signatures....with a bonus based upon the quantity of new signatures. it's a business plan that invites inappropriate behavior.

    and if you're crazy enough to try to make $$ by gathering signatures of republicans in california...well, you'd certainly have no qualms with changing things around a bit.

    but as with ACORN, registration itself doesn't really mean vote fraud. last i checked, registered republicans can still vote for any candidate they choose.
     
  14. atszyman macrumors 68020

    atszyman

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    #14
    In the general election, yes they can, I think the issue has more to do with the primaries, which may be closed, in which case your party registration can prevent you from participating.
     
  15. Peace thread starter macrumors Core

    Peace

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    #15
    The difference is with ACORN they are being investigated with no charges pending. This groups owner was arrested.

    There's a big difference between speculation and actual facts.

    This story is a fact. The ACORN story is speculation.

    And my apologies for stating I had reported a discussion. It was a mistake and I'm sorry BV.
     
  16. Ntombi macrumors 68030

    Ntombi

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    #16
    Yes, but this took place in CA, where we do have closed primaries, and the fraudulent registrations took place before the primary. I run my local election precinct, and I can't tell you the number of people who tell us that their party was switched without their knowledge or consent. It's a big problem, and there were numerous people in my precinct alone who were unable to vote in the Democratic primary as they wished, because they were registered Republicans. Funny how there was no one complaining to me that they were registered as Democrats without their knowledge or consent. ;) Of course fraud occurs on both sides, and in every big election, but IMO, calling out ACORN alone is pure BS.
     
  17. BoyBach macrumors 68040

    BoyBach

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    #17
    It appears to me that the US voting system is a total farce. Did whoever administers the voting system learn nothing from the 2000 debacle in Florida?

    Maybe it's time to send in the UN election monitors? ;)
     
  18. Delta608 macrumors regular

    Delta608

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    #18


    It was tongue and cheek...It does appear this board is a bit slanted, but after a few minutes here I go to thehighroad.org to get my sanity back..
     
  19. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #19
    (checks his monitor with a bubble level)

    Nope. Forum doesn't look slanted to me.
     
  20. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #20
    Well, the popular vote certainly is a farce, it means little to nothing really.

    educate me if im misunderstood fellas :)
     
  21. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #21
    In all seriousness, the Democrats did request election monitors in the 2004 election. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember it didn't happen.

    As for the US voting system, well, 2000 is why we ended up with Diebold touchscreens. So now it's more f'd up than ever. We've got all kinds of ballots (paper, machines, touchscreens) in different counties in different states; some are accurate and some are suspect; and there seems to be no logic to the whole thing.

    And that's not even getting into the registration and absentee ballot issues, which are different everywhere you go.

    It is a mess.
     
  22. Delta608 macrumors regular

    Delta608

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    #22

    Not being a constitutional student but, if the electoral college was not in effect, then NY, Ca. and Texas would effectively choose who would be president, right..?? :confused::confused:
     
  23. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #23
    yea. I just dont understand why we go state by state when we are all americans. If one candidate is favored by the american people then they should be president.

    over simplified of course.
     
  24. Ntombi macrumors 68030

    Ntombi

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    #24
    I don't think we should do away with the electoral college completely, because of exactly what Delta608 said, but here's my proposal:

    Do what Nebraska and Maine do: allocate electoral college votes by county, not state. All states and territories except those two have a winner-take-all system, which means that whoever gets the most votes within a state gets the entirety of those EC votes. If we went down to a county system, that could mean that everyone in the country still had a voice, but it wasn't quite as overwhelmingly simple as it is now.

    The down side is that it could lead to an even longer election cycle, because pockets of states that candidates can currently afford to ignore (like CA and MA and NY and OR and so on) would suddenly be up for grabs again.


    :confused:




    Aw, heck, I don't have the answer either. :p
     
  25. XnavxeMiyyep macrumors 65816

    XnavxeMiyyep

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    #25
    Except that no candidate will win 100% of those states. Getting 55-65% of all of them (although generally NY and CA vote differently from TX) would not be enough to win the election.
     

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