Just got my refurbished 12 inch powerbook AND...

[Rankin]

Hello,
I quickly opened the box yesterday just before going out and looked at the beauty. I thought I'd better start it up to see if all is ok. It started up fine but then a symbol Ive never seen before (a circle with a slash through it like a no smoking sign) appeared on the screen and just remained there. I turned it off and on again and same thing. Anyone know what this means? What do i do????

[caveman_uk]

Hello,
I quickly opened the box yesterday just before going out and looked at the beauty. I thought I'd better start it up to see if all is ok. It started up fine but then a symbol Ive never seen before (a circle with a slash through it like a no smoking sign) appeared on the screen and just remained there. I turned it off and on again and same thing. Anyone know what this means? What do i do????
It means it can't boot for some reason. Ring Apple and return it.

[Rankin]

Do you think starting up from the boot up disk and reformatting the mac will help?

[bubbamac]

Using the boot disk might help, but let Apple deal with it.

Return it. Today.

[Sabbath]

I would return it, politely push the idea that you need the laptop asap and thought you could rely ont the quality of Apple's refurbs and you may well get a new 12" for your toubles, not that there is much difference between the refurbs and the new ones if it's the same model. It just means you would likely get it a bit sooner.

[TLRedhawke]

Wow, I am consistently amazed that a board full of Mac fanatics can only come up with the dumb consumer tactic #1: If it does not work on the first attempt, return it. It's about as useful as the other common answer that shows up around here, that being, "Take it to the Apple Store and let them deal with it".

First of all, many of you are making the assumption that he bought this refurbished machine from Apple. In all likelihood, he may well not have. He may have bought it from another company, or some guy, and as such, returning the machine would be much more of a hassle.

Try booting from the recovery discs (presuming you were given them), and see what happens. It may be something as simple as the hard drive was wiped, and no OS installed. Worst case scenario, the hard drive could be bad. So, attempt to use the recovery discs. If that's no good, either attempt to return it (where possible), or get whomever you bought the machine from to dole out for a new hard drive. Hard drive is a bit of a pain, so you may want to let a pro do it.

[Rankin]

Cheers for all your replies!!! I actually did buy it from Apple. Thing is Im leaving for Sweden tonight and back on Tuesday night so not much I can do til then. I did call the apple guys and they said to call them back when I return and it should be a quick thing over the phone. Fingers crossed though!

Just one dumb question. How do I actually get a recovery disc in there if the powerbook doesnt startup and just gives me the prohib symbol when trying to start up?

[keysersoze]

Cheers for all your replies!!! I actually did buy it from Apple. Thing is Im leaving for Sweden tonight and back on Tuesday night so not much I can do til then. I did call the apple guys and they said to call them back when I return and it should be a quick thing over the phone. Fingers crossed though!

Just one dumb question. How do I actually get a recovery disc in there if the powerbook doesnt startup and just gives me the prohib symbol when trying to start up?

Just stick the CD in anyway, when you are looking at the no-smoking symbol. Then restart your computer, probably with a cold-reboot (hold down power key til the computer shuts down... then hit power key again to restart).

Hold down the C-key when you hit the power key to restart the computer... this will boot the system from the CD.


Hopefully.

:) ;)

[Rankin]

Cheers I will try that when I get back. Thanks for everyones help. I just want a normal turkey for xmas, not an apple turkey! :)

[jholzner]

My friend got a refub ibook and the same thing happened. Apple shipped it without the OS installed!!! Of course, they includeded the panther disks with the ibook so I just installed it and everything was fine. Still, seems kinda dumb for them to not install the OS!

[ChrisFromCanada]

Ya I would say it is pretty likely that the only problem is you have no OS installed. Boot from the CD and try installing 10.3.

[slipper]

Personally, i would never buy a refurb from Apple. From my experience, Apple repair facility SUCKS! I turned in my iBook for repair 3 times, according to the local Apple Store genius, for logic board problems. Two of the 3 times, it came back defective on arrival. One of those times with a very noticable speaker clicking problem and the other time the computer was just completely DEAD. and between the three times its been in and out of Apple Care, its gotten really scratched up, especially on the sides, showing very noticable signs the iBook has been pryed apart. sorry had to vent a little, but thats my explaination why i wouldnt buy a refurb.

[parrothead]

Wow, I am consistently amazed that a board full of Mac fanatics can only come up with the dumb consumer tactic #1: If it does not work on the first attempt, return it. It's about as useful as the other common answer that shows up around here, that being, "Take it to the Apple Store and let them deal with it".



That is absolutely not the dumb consumer tactic that you think it is. If there is some problem, say with the logic board, nothing he can do to the computer will help. Even if he manages to start up the computer once, who's to say the problem won't come back. When you buy something from a company it is absolutely acceptable to expect it to work when you take it out of the box. It shouldn't matter if it is a refurb or not, it still should work.

Say it was a certified used car he just bought. He finishes signing the papers and gets in the car to drive away and boom, the head gasket blows. Would you consider it dumb to demand a different car or his money back or would you consider it dumb to shrug his shoulders and tow the car to a garage and spend lots of money and time to get it fixed? :rolleyes:

[keysersoze]

Personally, i would never buy a refurb from Apple. From my experience, Apple repair facility SUCKS! I turned in my iBook for repair 3 times, according to the local Apple Store genius, for logic board problems. Two of the 3 times, it came back defective on arrival. One of those times with a very noticable speaker clicking problem and the other time the computer was just completely DEAD. and between the three times its been in and out of Apple Care, its gotten really scratched up, especially on the sides, showing very noticable signs the iBook has been pryed apart. sorry had to vent a little, but thats my explaination why i wouldnt buy a refurb.

I had a brand new iBook fresh out of the box, die on me in every way possible. Logic Board. RAM. Then Hard Drive. All over the course of 2 months.

My current G5 is an authentic refurb and it's been problem free, save for some firmware issues. It hasn't had to go into the shop once.

[mkaake]

Personally, i would never buy a refurb from Apple. From my experience, Apple repair facility SUCKS! I turned in my iBook for repair 3 times, according to the local Apple Store genius, for logic board problems. Two of the 3 times, it came back defective on arrival. One of those times with a very noticable speaker clicking problem and the other time the computer was just completely DEAD. and between the three times its been in and out of Apple Care, its gotten really scratched up, especially on the sides, showing very noticable signs the iBook has been pryed apart. sorry had to vent a little, but thats my explaination why i wouldnt buy a refurb.

i bought a refurb emac. got a top of the line machine for 700 shipped (nix a superdrive, which i didn't want anyway), with AE, the larger hard drive (60 gig at the time), panther, jaguar, 9.2, blah blah blah. Ordered it tuesday night, it shipped wedensday morning. had it just a few days later (free shipping). it got there with nary a scratch. there's no way that a person would be able to tell from looking at or using my computer that it was a refurb. so when i think about the price break i got, the same warranty a new buyer would get, and the problem free experience i had, using a machine that couldn't be told apart from a new one, i'd be compelled to disagree with you a little bit on that.
worst case scenario with a refurb is you get a bad one, call apple, and have them replace it. worth the rare hassle, IMHO...

[TLRedhawke]

That is absolutely not the dumb consumer tactic that you think it is. If there is some problem, say with the logic board, nothing he can do to the computer will help. Even if he manages to start up the computer once, who's to say the problem won't come back. When you buy something from a company it is absolutely acceptable to expect it to work when you take it out of the box. It shouldn't matter if it is a refurb or not, it still should work.

Say it was a certified used car he just bought. He finishes signing the papers and gets in the car to drive away and boom, the head gasket blows. Would you consider it dumb to demand a different car or his money back or would you consider it dumb to shrug his shoulders and tow the car to a garage and spend lots of money and time to get it fixed? :rolleyes:

Did I once suggest that he dole out money to fix this problem? This isn't an issue of a failed logic board, it's one of an absent OS. More importantly, the problem can be solved by the use of the very discs that Apple has provided. To use the used car analogy, this is more like discovering a couple of bad sparkplugs, and remembering that the dealer left a pack of new ones in the glove box. It takes minimal work to fix the problem, and costs no money. IF it turns out to be a bad hard drive, I do recall suggesting he return it.

Having worked in retail for the better part of my life, I know what a terrible idea it is to just return a product if it doesn't work perfectly at first. While in this case, something was actually wrong, I've had too many people to count attempt to return wireless cards, software, peripherals, and even screen cleaner because they were unable to make it work immediately. Not only did they not call the manufacturers to see if they had done something wrong, they often call my store for tech support. I'm not Apple tech support, yet I've received calls as to how to turn on an iMac, fresh out of the box, how to install ram, and so on, over the phone! I don't mind installing ram, or some other simple installations in person. I am not, however, paid to talk one through it over the phone. But, it's dumb consumer idea #2: If it doesn't work, call the person who sold it to you. It's just as unreasonable as trying to return it.

Back to the initial point, sometimes computers, and computer equipment need some installation to work at first. Drivers need to be installed, preferences need to be set, and so on. As such, you should make an honest attempt to make the machine work before attempting to return it. In this case, try to run the recovery discs. It's a simple procedure, and takes minimal effort. Just as mucking with the Airport preferences, or reseeding it will often fix up any difficulties. Only return a product when you know, to the best of your ability, that it is defective. Do not return product when the problem clearly exists between the keyboard and the chair. That being said, in this case, no, he did not cause the problem, but it can't hurt to try and fix it (through minimal effort). It's a bit of work to save the hassle of sending the product back to Apple, only to have them run the recovery discs, then send it back.

[bubbamac]

I've got no beef with trying to make something work with a minor fix out of the box. But:

This isn't a wireless card, or screen cleaners, or setting prefs - it's a high dollar, complex item with a long life span that won't start up.

It's not like they shipped an app separately that was supposed to be preinstalled, or somone's email got left on the machine - it's the Operating System that can't be found.

When I buy high dollar stuff, and it's got stuff wrong with it, it goes right back to where I bought it from, unless I can fix it quickly and easily, and I KNOW it won't affect me in the long run. Also, any fix I attempt should not void any warranty. No OS doesn't apply.

Ship it back.

[Counterfit]

When I buy high dollar stuff, and it's got stuff wrong with it, it goes right back to where I bought it from, unless I can fix it quickly and easily, and I KNOW it won't affect me in the long run. Also, any fix I attempt should not void any warranty. No OS doesn't apply. Which is quicker and easier: booting from a CD and clicking a few buttons, then waiting an hour or two for the install, or shipping it out, and waiting days for its return. Never mind that this could happen later on (don't get me started on whether you can really "know" something ;)), and it certainly wouldn't void your warranty.

Ship it back. Don't. it's a waste of your time, their time, their money, and your time. Yes, I know I put "your time" twice. :rolleyes:

[bubbamac]

Which is quicker and easier: booting from a CD and clicking a few buttons, then waiting an hour or two for the install, or shipping it out, and waiting days for its return. Never mind that this could happen later on (don't get me started on whether you can really "know" something ;)), and it certainly wouldn't void your warranty.

Don't. it's a waste of your time, their time, their money, and your time. Yes, I know I put "your time" twice. :rolleyes:

I think we can agree that we disagree, though, and since you're here and I'm here, isn't it "our time?"

[TLRedhawke]

It would most definitely be nothing but a waste of time, considering Apple would just run the very same recovery discs I'm suggesting he run in this case. Installing an OS most certainly does not void the warranty, nor does it take any appreciable amount of time. It is a minor fix.

As for your ideals, Bubbamac, as to when you ought to be returning things, it seems as if you're the sort that a retailer wouldn't lift a finger for. The actions taken by an individual entirely determine my course of action. The ruder, and more unwilling to make attempts to fix the problem, the less likely I'll be of help.

For instance, two customers attempt to return external CDRWs. My return policy says 7 days, original condition, with a restocking fee. One customer comes in, explains the situation calmly, that he's spent hours on the phone with the manufacturer, and he cannot get the machine to work with his beige G3. It was purchased nearly a month ago, but I returned it, with a restock. Another customer comes in, drops the CDRW on the counter, and tells me it doesn't work. Being dutiful, I plug it in to one of the demo machines, and it reads a disc. So, not defective. He says he couldn't make it work. It was purchased 9 days ago. He hadn't called the manufacturer, or attempted any particular solution. I refused the return.

[parrothead]

It would most definitely be nothing but a waste of time, considering Apple would just run the very same recovery discs I'm suggesting he run in this case. Installing an OS most certainly does not void the warranty, nor does it take any appreciable amount of time. It is a minor fix.

As for your ideals, Bubbamac, as to when you ought to be returning things, it seems as if you're the sort that a retailer wouldn't lift a finger for. The actions taken by an individual entirely determine my course of action. The ruder, and more unwilling to make attempts to fix the problem, the less likely I'll be of help.

For instance, two customers attempt to return external CDRWs. My return policy says 7 days, original condition, with a restocking fee. One customer comes in, explains the situation calmly, that he's spent hours on the phone with the manufacturer, and he cannot get the machine to work with his beige G3. It was purchased nearly a month ago, but I returned it, with a restock. Another customer comes in, drops the CDRW on the counter, and tells me it doesn't work. Being dutiful, I plug it in to one of the demo machines, and it reads a disc. So, not defective. He says he couldn't make it work. It was purchased 9 days ago. He hadn't called the manufacturer, or attempted any particular solution. I refused the return.


While I agree with you that it is far easier to attempt to try to fix a problem when it comes up before sending it back, I feel that a computer should, at the very least, start up when you get it out of the box. It may not be true in this case, but most people with the same problem as the thread poster would have no clue how to use the software recovery discs or even that that would be the solution. Apple ships their OS pre-installed, period. If a computer is shipped without the OS, they should absolutely be held liable for that problem and they should fix it. If the customer knows how to fix the problem, then more power to them. If they dont, or ar not willing, Apple, or any retailer should fix it for them.


If you get so annoyed dealing with your customers, then perhaps it is time to find another line of work. Try to remember that it is your job to deal with people. I have worked in the retail business before and let me tell you it is nothing compared to working in the tourist industry (Dive instructor). Dealing with the idiotic and rude things that people say and do that could easily get them killed was just part of the job. Those that didnt like dealing with it got bitter and had horrible customer service. No good for anyone. You dont like the used car analogy, try this, You sold them the computer with no OS on it. They come in to return it after 10 days. They may be a little ticked because they spend $2000 on something that didn't work. Do you think it is right to just say tough, no returns go fix it yourself?

[TLRedhawke]

Well, let's put it this way. If I phoned Apple, and said that there was a 12" PowerBook with no OS installed, they would tell me to run the recovery discs. It's really that simple. If you were to call Apple tech support, they would happily tell you how to boot from the discs. I love my job, but I hate stupid customers. More importantly, I hate customers who aren't willing to make a reasonable attempt. Is it so much to ask to just call Apple before bringing it back? They would probably give you the option of running the discs, via their instructions, or returning it, and spending weeks without a machine so that they can do the work for you. If Apple chooses to replace the machine, that's all well and good, and it's up to them. Ought you not to call them first rather than just return the machine? That's the sort of people that get bad service. It's the golden rule. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. If you're nice, patient, and perfectly reasonable, customer service reps will bend over backwards for you. If you're rude, and don't want to attempt to deal with the problem, then they won't lift a finger for you.

Apple preinstalls the OS, yes, but remember, they don't warrant it. Nowhere in the warranty is the OS covered. They preinstall it as a courtesy, and because everyone else sells machines with preinstalled OSs. As a law student, this has major significance. It means that they will fix your hardware, but they remove themselves from liability for data loss. Moreover, they are under no obligation to install, reinstall, or upgrade your OS. That's up to you to do. Resellers are in the same boat. They can charge you to reinstall the OS, or someone may do it free of charge, of their own volition. but I can tell you right now that I would never install an OS for someone who did not attempt to do it on their own. The most I would do is tell them how to do it. And since that's as simple as holding C while the machine starts up, it's no skin off my back. It's my job to deal with customers, yes, but if we want to get technical, it's really my job to sell them things. That's what I'm paid for, as that's what makes money. Giving good service helps to sell things. However, where someone wants everything to work out of the box, without any reasonable attempts of their own, and wants to return it if it doesn't, then it's unlikely I'll be able to sell them all that much anyway. We have a service department that will happily deal with all your unwillingness to try for a price. I'm not going to do the work for you for free. The only times I am is where you've really tried, and need the help.

I'm under an obligation to deal with customers, but that by no means indicates that they are somehow inherently right. They just like to think they are. The greatest joy involved in my job is snapping customers out of that mode of thought in as harsh a manner allowable.

[jeremy.king]

Hello,
I quickly opened the box yesterday just before going out and looked at the beauty. I thought I'd better start it up to see if all is ok. It started up fine but then a symbol Ive never seen before (a circle with a slash through it like a no smoking sign) appeared on the screen and just remained there. I turned it off and on again and same thing. Anyone know what this means? What do i do????

Try this first

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106805

If no success, return it :eek:

[bubbamac]

Well, let's put it this way. If I phoned Apple, and said that there was a 12" PowerBook with no OS installed, they would tell me to run the recovery discs. It's really that simple. If you were to call Apple tech support, they would happily tell you how to boot from the discs.


This is probably the best course of action, and I guess I would have tried this first, upon second (or third) thought.

It really depends on what I'm buying as to what I do with it. I do make every reasonable effort, within my limitations, my expectations, and my understanding of the return policy. Really.

And I'm nice about it. I wouldn't return this guy's iBook with a nasty-gram, I'd call first (leading to your excellent solution) and be polite. Whenever I return a product, I make sure to explain what I've tried, why I've tried it, and ask what else I could have tried. It's almost never the fault of the person I'm talking to - they just have a job to do. They may be able to help me, or explain a better way. But a positive attitude on my part almost always gets be good results.

How happy I am with the purchase depends not only how well the product works, but how I'm treated if I have a problem. If this happens to me:

The greatest joy involved in my job is snapping customers out of that mode of thought in as harsh a manner allowable.

I assure you I both know it, and act accordingly. I do NOT fool around with representatives of companies like this, and I DO make sure I tell my friends/aquaintances/anyone I can about this type of attitude - assuming I can't get satisfaction higher up the chain. I have gotten people fired for this type of attitude, and fired them myself when I was in that position. I have no regrets about reporting this type of behavior to the responsible parties, whether at my company or another.

I work in a service industry where people are out of their element, and frequently do, well, stupid things. But as long as they're nice about it, I do what I can, or more. I also try to explain what's going on, so they're better informed next time. If they're not nice about it, I still do what I can, because it's my job.

It's not people's actions that irk me - it's their attitude. If the above is your attitude when dealing with customers, I'd also suggest a change, if only temporarily. If you're not removed (under your own power or not), you will do harm to your companies' business in the long run. Remember, make one customer mad, he'll tell 10 more - and those 10 more are your future livelihood. Worse, most customers that you make mad (and I assure you they know, too), will not take it to a higher level within the company, they'll just go badmouth your business. Your supervisors, if you have them, know this.

BTW - if you're good to me, I tell everyone too - because even fewer happy people take it up the ladder.

[mrwonkers]

Having worked in retail for the better part of my life, I know what a terrible idea it is to just return a product if it doesn't work perfectly at first. While in this case, something was actually wrong, I've had too many people to count attempt to return wireless cards, software, peripherals, and even screen cleaner because they were unable to make it work immediately. Not only did they not call the manufacturers to see if they had done something wrong, they often call my store for tech support. I'm not Apple tech support, yet I've received calls as to how to turn on an iMac, fresh out of the box, how to install ram, and so on, over the phone! I don't mind installing ram, or some other simple installations in person. I am not, however, paid to talk one through it over the phone. But, it's dumb consumer idea #2: If it doesn't work, call the person who sold it to you. It's just as unreasonable as trying to return it.


:rolleyes: I also work in retail and think it is unreasonable that sales people would adopt an attitude like yours. Especially with customers who are spending their hard earned dollars supporting the products you sell.
I feel pity for the poor customer who has to deal with you.
If I where faced with the choice of purchasing from you I know I would definately go elsewhere.......WAKE UP.. :eek: ..You are in customer service not wonderland Alice.........

[TLRedhawke]

Actually, when I piss customers off, my boss is usually right there backing me up. I have no qualms with certain people never coming back, or telling all of their friends never to shop at my store. Case in point, a woman buys an old P2, used, for $150 with monitor. She loves it, takes it home, then calls for the next two days because we didn't include Office. I think it goes without saying how unreasonable it is to expect a product worth $300-700 with a $150 purchase. So, she calls and says she's bringing it back. no one ever said we'd take it, she just declared she'd bring it back. I volunteered to deal with it, as I enjoy difficult customers. she came in, and claimed it was no good. She said it worked fine, that I never told her it had Office in there, but rather, that she had made an assumption. She said I should have told her about such a thing. I replied that if I was obligated to tell her everything the computer had in it, I would be waxing poetic for an hour about the motherboard. Now, if I was further obliged to tell her everything the computer DIDN'T have, I'd be there all day. I kept refusing to take it back, as she had been told that with this computer, there was a 10 day warranty, exchange only. The machine wasn't defective. She then tried to appeal to my morality. I'm a law student, and an awfully cynical one at that, so that didn't fly. She then threatened legal action, to which I very nearly burst out laughing. I told her to do what she had to do. She left the machine in the store and left. So, we put it aside for 30 days, then sold it.

In general, where a customer has a mistaken belief, I just correct them nicely. Where they are outright wrong, I also correct them in as nice a manner as possible. However, if he's rude to me, I can be just as rude. My boss supports this. I'm not obligated to take flak from people because they feel like dishing it. You want to spend $5000 and be a prick, that's fine. If you want to be a prick and spend nothing, then get the hell out. Where a customer expects me to bend over backwards for them, and is nothing but rude, then they can sod off. Customers in general feel comfortable coming into my store because all of the employees are very casual. We're not some big box store where everyone dresses the same and has to follow certain policies. We dress fairly nicely, and talk like regular people. In my experience, you can gauge how good the service is at a store by how likely they are to send you elsewhere for a product, even if they can obtain it. When i've been chatting with a customer for a while, and he's been quite congenial and polite, I don't mind telling him where to get some stuff for cheaper than I have it. They love that, and they come back.

It as actually my boss who first told me that the customers at this store think they know everything, and so i'd be responsible for dealing with these mistaken notions as much as possible, and selling them what they really want. It sounds odd, but it's true. If a customer can't even give me a starting point on what they want, then I can't help them. I've had a woman say she wants a new computer, but knows nothing, other than that she wants a new computer. Even basic questions like "Laptop or desktop?", and "PC or Mac?" garnered no answer. At that point, I can't help. I'm not going to sell you the most expensive I have, as a Future Shop or Best Buy might. I'll get you what you want, not what I can dupe you into buying. I'm good at my job, and though I'm rude to some people, and even while polite, I can anger a number of customers. However, if this filters out customers with ridiculous expectations, then it's better for us. Moreover, we're the only computer store on a large campus, so the majority of those who claim they'll never come back do anyway, because they're too lazy to venture off campus.

[mrwonkers]

Actually, when I piss customers off, my boss is usually right there backing me up. I have no qualms with certain people never coming back, or telling all of their friends never to shop at my store. Case in point, a woman buys an old P2, used, for $150 with monitor. She loves it, takes it home, then calls for the next two days because we didn't include Office. I think it goes without saying how unreasonable it is to expect a product worth $300-700 with a $150 purchase. So, she calls and says she's bringing it back. no one ever said we'd take it, she just declared she'd bring it back. I volunteered to deal with it, as I enjoy difficult customers. she came in, and claimed it was no good. She said it worked fine, that I never told her it had Office in there, but rather, that she had made an assumption. She said I should have told her about such a thing. I replied that if I was obligated to tell her everything the computer had in it, I would be waxing poetic for an hour about the motherboard. Now, if I was further obliged to tell her everything the computer DIDN'T have, I'd be there all day. I kept refusing to take it back, as she had been told that with this computer, there was a 10 day warranty, exchange only. The machine wasn't defective. She then tried to appeal to my morality. I'm a law student, and an awfully cynical one at that, so that didn't fly. She then threatened legal action, to which I very nearly burst out laughing. I told her to do what she had to do. She left the machine in the store and left. So, we put it aside for 30 days, then sold it.

In general, where a customer has a mistaken belief, I just correct them nicely. Where they are outright wrong, I also correct them in as nice a manner as possible. However, if he's rude to me, I can be just as rude. My boss supports this. I'm not obligated to take flak from people because they feel like dishing it. You want to spend $5000 and be a prick, that's fine. If you want to be a prick and spend nothing, then get the hell out. Where a customer expects me to bend over backwards for them, and is nothing but rude, then they can sod off. Customers in general feel comfortable coming into my store because all of the employees are very casual. We're not some big box store where everyone dresses the same and has to follow certain policies. We dress fairly nicely, and talk like regular people. In my experience, you can gauge how good the service is at a store by how likely they are to send you elsewhere for a product, even if they can obtain it. When i've been chatting with a customer for a while, and he's been quite congenial and polite, I don't mind telling him where to get some stuff for cheaper than I have it. They love that, and they come back.

It as actually my boss who first told me that the customers at this store think they know everything, and so i'd be responsible for dealing with these mistaken notions as much as possible, and selling them what they really want. It sounds odd, but it's true. If a customer can't even give me a starting point on what they want, then I can't help them. I've had a woman say she wants a new computer, but knows nothing, other than that she wants a new computer. Even basic questions like "Laptop or desktop?", and "PC or Mac?" garnered no answer. At that point, I can't help. I'm not going to sell you the most expensive I have, as a Future Shop or Best Buy might. I'll get you what you want, not what I can dupe you into buying. I'm good at my job, and though I'm rude to some people, and even while polite, I can anger a number of customers. However, if this filters out customers with ridiculous expectations, then it's better for us. Moreover, we're the only computer store on a large campus, so the majority of those who claim they'll never come back do anyway, because they're too lazy to venture off campus.

You are such a dick :rolleyes:

[TLRedhawke]

:rolleyes: I also work in retail and think it is unreasonable that sales people would adopt an attitude like yours. Especially with customers who are spending their hard earned dollars supporting the products you sell.
I feel pity for the poor customer who has to deal with you.
If I where faced with the choice of purchasing from you I know I would definately go elsewhere.......WAKE UP.. :eek: ..You are in customer service not wonderland Alice.........

So, in short, I'm supposed to just smile and perform whatever unreasonable task they feel I'm supposed to perform? If that's your idea of how someone in customer service should operate, then I think you and I are in different businesses. The intelligent customers, as in the ones who come in and know what they're talking about, rather love my style. I make honest suggestions, and can help them out when they're nice. They don't say "My computer's broken" and expect me to know why. I'll often make suggestions, even though it isn't my job to give such advice for free, but I can't pinpoint anything.

If you're taking offence to the passage you quoted, then I can only presume you're employed at a big box store where the employees are clueless, but polite. I don't need hellos and thank yous if it doesn't help me find what I want. I especially don't need questions about what processor I'm running when I've asked for a specific part. I know what I want, and want you to sell it to me, not help me determine if it's what I really do want. If someone asks me for something to perform a task, I can make suggestions. If someone asks me about Macs, I can cite prices by rote, and exact specs. Moreover, I can make suggestions based on requirements. I only have as much respect for the customer as he has for me. If he's going to be a prick and complain about return policies, or some such, then why be nice? I'm not a doormat. I'll bend over backwards if you're nice, but I won't move an inch if you're rude.

[TLRedhawke]

You are such a dick :rolleyes:

I prefer the term "Bastard", but thanks.

[Mord]

look, the powerbook came with a corrupt copy of the OS big ********* deal it's an easy quick fix, you don't have to go whining to apple about it ti takes half an hour to fix tops.

what's with the angst about it it's a tiny problem thats easily fixed

if you don't know how to fix a simple problem don't reply to a thread telling people to send there mac into apple when it is not needed at all.

[jemeinc]

I'm under an obligation to deal with customers, but that by no means indicates that they are somehow inherently right. They just like to think they are. The greatest joy involved in my job is snapping customers out of that mode of thought in as harsh a manner allowable.

That's a shame... Thank god I spend ridiculous amounts of money not only training my employees, but making sure they are happy & stick around... Seen to many bitter people like you bring an otherwise solid business down... I'm not selling products- I'm selling myself & my employees are an extension of me... You would definitely not survive in our company...

[CrackedButter]

:rolleyes: I also work in retail and think it is unreasonable that sales people would adopt an attitude like yours. Especially with customers who are spending their hard earned dollars supporting the products you sell.
I feel pity for the poor customer who has to deal with you.
If I where faced with the choice of purchasing from you I know I would definately go elsewhere.......WAKE UP.. :eek: ..You are in customer service not wonderland Alice.........

I disagree, his time is his money, why do people think they can get something for free if they ask over a phone. My response would be the same as his. Customers are the ones who should wake up, you don't get nothing for free anymore.

[CrackedButter]

That's a shame... Thank god I spend ridiculous amounts of money not only training my employees, but making sure they are happy & stick around... Seen to many bitter people like you bring an otherwise solid business down... I'm not selling products- I'm selling myself & my employees are an extension of me... You would definitely not survive in our company...

Sometimes however, people need a little dose, makes them realise things they might not admit to themselves.

However, I can partially agree when talking in a business sense.

[justinshiding]

Actually, when I piss customers off, my boss is usually right there backing me up. I have no qualms with certain people never coming back, or telling all of their friends never to shop at my store. Case in point, a woman buys an old P2, used, for $150 with monitor. She loves it, takes it home, then calls for the next two days because we didn't include Office. I think it goes without saying how unreasonable it is to expect a product worth $300-700 with a $150 purchase. So, she calls and says she's bringing it back. no one ever said we'd take it, she just declared she'd bring it back. I volunteered to deal with it, as I enjoy difficult customers. she came in, and claimed it was no good. She said it worked fine, that I never told her it had Office in there, but rather, that she had made an assumption. She said I should have told her about such a thing. I replied that if I was obligated to tell her everything the computer had in it, I would be waxing poetic for an hour about the motherboard. Now, if I was further obliged to tell her everything the computer DIDN'T have, I'd be there all day. I kept refusing to take it back, as she had been told that with this computer, there was a 10 day warranty, exchange only. The machine wasn't defective. She then tried to appeal to my morality. I'm a law student, and an awfully cynical one at that, so that didn't fly. She then threatened legal action, to which I very nearly burst out laughing. I told her to do what she had to do. She left the machine in the store and left. So, we put it aside for 30 days, then sold it.

In general, where a customer has a mistaken belief, I just correct them nicely. Where they are outright wrong, I also correct them in as nice a manner as possible. However, if he's rude to me, I can be just as rude. My boss supports this. I'm not obligated to take flak from people because they feel like dishing it. You want to spend $5000 and be a prick, that's fine. If you want to be a prick and spend nothing, then get the hell out. Where a customer expects me to bend over backwards for them, and is nothing but rude, then they can sod off. Customers in general feel comfortable coming into my store because all of the employees are very casual. We're not some big box store where everyone dresses the same and has to follow certain policies. We dress fairly nicely, and talk like regular people. In my experience, you can gauge how good the service is at a store by how likely they are to send you elsewhere for a product, even if they can obtain it. When i've been chatting with a customer for a while, and he's been quite congenial and polite, I don't mind telling him where to get some stuff for cheaper than I have it. They love that, and they come back.

It as actually my boss who first told me that the customers at this store think they know everything, and so i'd be responsible for dealing with these mistaken notions as much as possible, and selling them what they really want. It sounds odd, but it's true. If a customer can't even give me a starting point on what they want, then I can't help them. I've had a woman say she wants a new computer, but knows nothing, other than that she wants a new computer. Even basic questions like "Laptop or desktop?", and "PC or Mac?" garnered no answer. At that point, I can't help. I'm not going to sell you the most expensive I have, as a Future Shop or Best Buy might. I'll get you what you want, not what I can dupe you into buying. I'm good at my job, and though I'm rude to some people, and even while polite, I can anger a number of customers. However, if this filters out customers with ridiculous expectations, then it's better for us. Moreover, we're the only computer store on a large campus, so the majority of those who claim they'll never come back do anyway, because they're too lazy to venture off campus.


Oooo...so evil. You're my new hero for the day. :)

I spend all day correcting people's incorrect notions that the customer is always right.

I think honestly that your response to that customer may have had something to do with the way she acted. People need to realize that, with me at least, if you want me to help you ...you're going to have to at least be polite when dealing with me. Flying off the handle and yelling at me isn't going to make me want to be particularly helpful. However, if someone is nice...I might suggest an alternative to Office , in your situation, like "well office is not a free product and costs more than your whole system did, but you could always use open office , which is free." But since it seemed like the woman was being a twit, I agree with you.

About the whole refurb thing....If it's just a corrupted install of the OS someone should contact tech support first...but anything more than that I could understand not trusting how well refurbished the product was and wanting to return it.

[mrwonkers]

I disagree, his time is his money, why do people think they can get something for free if they ask over a phone. My response would be the same as his. Customers are the ones who should wake up, you don't get nothing for free anymore.

A Mother coming forth to protect her silly offspring how very national geographic of you........you naughty girl.......Mrs TLRedhawke ;)

[justinshiding]

That's a shame... Thank god I spend ridiculous amounts of money not only training my employees, but making sure they are happy & stick around... Seen to many bitter people like you bring an otherwise solid business down... I'm not selling products- I'm selling myself & my employees are an extension of me... You would definitely not survive in our company...


I honestly don't think this is an issue of employee happiness or bitterness.

This woman bought a product without understanding what it inlcluded. Why didn't she ask if it had office when she bought it if that was so amazingly important?

The woman called up and complained that something she did not ensure was included was not included.

If you bought a car, and didn't ask if it came with leather seats. Would you call the dealership pissed off that you didnt get leather seats (something that costs money) for free? Hmmmmm.

My reasoning is that I will try to help people, but only if they're calm, polite, and controlled. If someone calls up , and starts blaming me for their mistakes, then honestly I'm not going to bend the rules to try to help them. The policies for return are all detailed before the sale, she would have known that. So Honestly it's an issue of people not living up to their own mistakes. I agree, it's not the best customer service story I've heard, but you seem to be putting the blame on the wrong person.

Justin

Edit. I say honestly in these posts too often.

[CrackedButter]

A Mother coming forth to protect her silly offspring how very national geographic of you........you naughty girl.......Mrs TLRedhawke ;)

I'm beginning to think you are a troll. If you had something to really say you would of said it rather than attack me over my opinion which lacked anything offense and was rightly balanced and added something to the discussion. You post is also childish.

I don't even know TLRedhawke...

Face it, you're wrong, he's right.

[CrackedButter]

Oooo...so evil. You're my new hero for the day. :)

I spend all day correcting people's incorrect notions that the customer is always right.

I think honestly that your response to that customer may have had something to do with the way she acted. People need to realize that, with me at least, if you want me to help you ...you're going to have to at least be polite when dealing with me. Flying off the handle and yelling at me isn't going to make me want to be particularly helpful. However, if someone is nice...I might suggest an alternative to Office , in your situation, like "well office is not a free product and costs more than your whole system did, but you could always use open office , which is free." But since it seemed like the woman was being a twit, I agree with you.

About the whole refurb thing....If it's just a corrupted install of the OS someone should contact tech support first...but anything more than that I could understand not trusting how well refurbished the product was and wanting to return it.

I actually had a print job balls up on me the other day. About $120 worth of work wasted. The printer technician through a sales clerk tried to blame me for the mistake stating a badly set up psd file was the problem. I hadn't used CMYK and such and such...

The colours on the print job came out so Black I told the clerk to bin them right away. However clerks don't know everything and while walking home thinking about how I could fix the problem. I realised he said everything would of been okay if they had used another printer.

Long story short...

I went back to the print shop with another CD (exact psd file) and 3 printouts from my computer (more than one peice of work) and asked this clerk if I could speak to the technician. Turns out nothing was wrong with my work and it WAS the printer they were using. Plus I noted they were using pc's, (i mean come on) while before I had heard they used macs. The local college uses macs and I believe one of the problems was there right away.

Anyway, I spoke as calmy as I could (after being blamed and for them missing the original deadline anyway by 4 days) and got the tech to print the whole job again on the other printer which was a better quality print.

While the results of the job were okay for the customer, I was discouraged from using them again, my lovely work was ruined by them, I had spent ages on what I had done. Anyway, it was nice that the female tech accommodated me so easily and it proves you get somewhere being nicer to the staff even if you DO know more.

[Counterfit]

Oooo...so evil. You're my new hero for the day. :) Same here. I wish I could get away with being an ass to rude customers, especially the ones that almost hit me in the parking lot. Unfortunately, I work in a grocery store, and there's about 3 more of them within driving distance for our regular customers, so I would be fired pretty damn quickly if I did ;)




PS: can I work for your employer? :D

[TLRedhawke]

That's a shame... Thank god I spend ridiculous amounts of money not only training my employees, but making sure they are happy & stick around... Seen to many bitter people like you bring an otherwise solid business down... I'm not selling products- I'm selling myself & my employees are an extension of me... You would definitely not survive in our company...

You see, I find this somewhat amusing. That is, I can sell myself, and the company can sell itself all it wants, but it does you no good if product never leaves shelf. There's a fellow who works on campus, and comes into the shop a lot. We call him "Freebie". He'll spend quite a lot of time in the store, very polite, asking about products, and how to do what he wants. Once he's got everything figured out, he goes out to a far cheaper merchant and buys from them. That's what happens when you focus only on selling yourself. The customers who keep coming back are the ones that like the intelligent and honest style that all of us carry. We may come off as rude, and unhelpful, but that's because we like to be regular people, not simply customer service. In short, we're not going to coddle you and bend over backwards because you want us to. Sure, I'll walk you through all your misinformations, and misconceptions, and help you find the product you want. However, to receive such treatment, you have to be polite, and nice. Your problem is not my problem. Don't try to make it into my problem. Tax is 15%, stop asking me what it comes to. You can calculate it yourself. The return policy is clearly posted, stop asking what it is. If you don't like my policies, the door is to the left. I'll bend them if I like you, not because you think I should.

It's all well and good to declare that I wouldn't survive based on written reports of the manner in which I act. However, you've not seen me in action. Retail isn't conducted in writing. It's on the spot, and it requires quick thinking, and quick judgments not only for what product would be ideal, but also for how far you plan to go for a particular customer. The Open Office comment is a perfect one. When she initially phoned, we suggested she find someone with a burned copy of Office XP (The machine had Windows 98, so 2003 wouldn't run), and she declared that if she couldn't, she'd bring it back. If she had been nice, I would have happily suggested Open Office. However, if you're going to be a prick, I'm not going to give you free hints. If I told every customer about Open Office, I'd never sell MSOffice. Is it better to be a nice guy, or to sell product in that case?

The customer is not inherently right, and I'm honestly sick of those who try to push the idea that they are. Especially in more technical sales fields, the customer is far less likely to be right. We have a guy who comes into the store. We call him "64 bit guy", because all he does is rant about 64 bit computing, and Hyper Transport. He seems to like to quote news sites, though he won't admit he does. He keeps himself pretty well informed, but everytime he comes in, I thwomp him. He's always missed something. He's a knowledgeable guy, but he doesn't know everything. He doesn't even know everything in the one field of which he chooses to make a query. The other reason we don't like him is that he keeps asking for products which we don't carry, cannot order, and he has asked for in the past. If I couldn't get you a laptop with an Athlon 64 2 months ago, what makes you think I can get one now? I've told him very well what brand of laptop I can get. None of them make 64 bit laptops. It's not a hard concept. However, at the very least, he always waits patiently until I'm free to rant at me. He stood around for 10 minutes while I was on the phone last time. If he had burst in and started ranting at me right off the bat, I wouldn't have even listened. If a customer interrupts me in the midst of speaking to someone else, and it isn't for a brief inquiry, like "Where are the headphones?", then I'm not going to bend an inch. I've been called racist because I didn't stop the conversation I'd been having with a young female customer to go get the stuff he'd ordered. He burst into the conversation, and I told him he'd have to wait.

In short, if you're making money by being a doormat, then more power to you. However, our business is thriving by my, and the rest of the employees', honesty, and forthrightness. I'm not tech support, and I'm not here to give free advice. If I choose to, it's because I like you, not because you want me to.