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View Full Version : Old ATV vs New ATV Adv/Disadv




Stuart21
Sep 15, 2010, 12:36 PM
I know very little about ATV in general and was thinking about buying one because im tired of hooking my laptop up to my tv and running chords all over the place. Basically I have taken all my dvds and ripped them on to a 1TB external hard drive (in mp4). Which option would be best for me? With the old ATV do you have to rip the dvd to your computer then transfer it over to the ATV? To me it seemed that with the new ATV you can just rip the file to my ext hard drive and just add that file to my itunes library and play it via that way.

I basically was just hoping someone could just give me the advantages/disadvantages of having the old/new ATV. Also what kind of hacks can you do with the old ATV?



jaw04005
Sep 15, 2010, 01:07 PM
You could go on forever, but here ...

Old - Pros
Component output
Analog output
480p, 1080i and 1080p output support
Sync to built-in hard disk
Widely available hacks
Menu system that’s focused on purchased/ripped content first with rental content secondary
Aluminum case

Old - Cons
Price - $229 ($299 originally)
No 720p@30 FPS support
Old white Apple remote
Older base software (10.4 Tiger variant with QuickTime 7.x extensions)
End of Life (no more software updates)
Always-on power consumption around 20-40 watts

New - Pros
Price - $99
Plays back higher-bit rate content (like iPad)
Plays back 720p@30 FPS (like iPad)
Smaller, Thinner, Lighter, Sleeker
Aluminum remote
Power consumption around 6 watts
Netflix
99 cent TV Show rentals
Newer iOS base software
Potential App Store
Presumably faster and better quality rentals, streaming and playback (using QTKit/QuickTime X’s HTTP Live Streaming)
AirPlay support
Photo sharing support
YouTube HD

New - Cons
No 480p, 1080i or 1080p output (not to be confused with playback)
Menu system that’s focused on rental content first with purchased/ripped content secondary
No purchases or downloads directly from device (you must use the iTunes Store)
Plastic case

I personally don’t consider the lack of a hard drive a con as my computer is always on anyway.

NightStorm
Sep 15, 2010, 01:14 PM
You could go on forever, but here ...
New - Cons
No 1080i or 1080p output (not to be confused with playback)
Menu system that’s focused on rental content first with purchased/ripped content secondary
No purchases or downloads directly from device (you must use the iTunes Store)

I personally don’t consider the lack of a hard drive a con as my computer is always on anyway.
Do we really know for sure that the new AppleTV will not offer a 1080p output mode like the current generation? I've seen nothing definitive (like a screen shot of the display settings screen) that points to the removal of this output feature.

I've preordered one of these to replace my AppleTV in the living room; as long as there isn't anything too horrible to overcome, I'll probably replace the one in my bedroom as well. While I wish they hadn't relegated "My" content to a third level menu option, the appeal of Netflix streaming (and broader availability of some 1st run TV rentals) has me intrigued, and will likely reduce the number of TV shows and movies that I purchase from iTunes and on DVD/Bluray. For example, I love watching "Modern Family" episodes over and over, but I don't really watch something like "Mythbusters" more than once.

Saving money is a big pro for me, and one of the key reasons I adopted the iTunes model over paying for cable and DVD/Bluray season sets 2-3 years ago.

jaw04005
Sep 15, 2010, 01:20 PM
Do we really know for sure that the new AppleTV will not offer a 1080p output mode like the current generation? I've seen nothing definitive (like a screen shot of the display settings screen) that points to the removal of this output feature.

We don’t know definitively. However, they did remove 1080p (along with 1080i and 480p) support from the tech specs page.

"Compatible with high-definition TVs with HDMI and capable of 720p 60/50Hz,2 including popular models from these manufacturers: Hitachi, JVC, LG, Mitsubishi, NEC, Panasonic, Philips, Pioneer, Samsung, Sony, Sharp, Toshiba, Vizio, Westinghouse”

vs

"Compatible with enhanced-definition or high-definition widescreen TVs capable of 1080p/1080i 60/50Hz, 720p 60/50Hz, 576p 50Hz (PAL format), or 480p 60Hz, including popular models from these manufacturers: HP, Hitachi, JVC, LG, Mitsubishi, NEC, Olevia, Panasonic, Philips, Pioneer, Polaroid, Samsung, Sony, Sharp, Toshiba, Vizio, Westinghouse”

NightStorm
Sep 15, 2010, 01:24 PM
We donít know definitively. However, they did remove 1080p (along with 1080i and 480p) support from the tech specs page.

Interesting; I couldn't remember if they were listed on the old tech specs page or not.

SkippyThorson
Sep 15, 2010, 01:38 PM
That list you posted was the spot-on perfect answer I've been looking for.

The only question I have - the first :apple:TV has been EOL'd? I knew they said there wouldn't be an update to bring the new software to it, but no more updates at all, period? Wow.

I really just want a local storage device, so the hard drive is probably going to be the deciding factor, even if it means I lose AirPlay. :( I'm looking on eBay, and the original :apple:TVs are already down to the $100 range, some brand new.

jaw04005
Sep 15, 2010, 01:43 PM
While I wish they hadn't relegated "My" content to a third level menu option,

I think they’ll change it back once it ships and they receive feedback again. They tried that with Apple TV OS 2.0 and customers didn’t like it. The new Apple TV’s menu system makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

I plan on leaving them quite a bit of feedback on the issue once the new Apple TV ships.

the appeal of Netflix streaming (and broader availability of some 1st run TV rentals) has me intrigued, and will likely reduce the number of TV shows and movies that I purchase from iTunes and on DVD/Bluray. For example, I love watching "Modern Family" episodes over and over, but I don't really watch something like "Mythbusters" more than once.

Me too. The only HD TV Show seasons from iTunes I’ve purchased is for the show House, and the storage requirements for that one show alone (roughly 33GBs per season, around 200GB total and I even delete the SD version) has broke me from purchasing TV shows through iTunes. It’s just not economical. Ideally, I would like Apple to just keep the TV show and allow me to stream it on-demand like Amazon. The rental model is one step closer to that, and to be honest I probably would have come out ahead on House if the rental model was in place years ago.

Hummm … 132 episodes, $360 ($60 per season, 6 seasons) — that’s renting each episode 2.7x.

OllyW
Sep 15, 2010, 01:50 PM
New - Pros
Price - $99
Plays back higher-bit rate content (like iPad)
Plays back 720p@30 FPS (like iPad)
Smaller, Thinner, Lighter, Sleeker
Aluminum remote
Power consumption around 6 watts
Netflix
99 cent TV Show rentals
Newer iOS base software
Potential App Store
Presumably faster and better quality rentals, streaming and playback (using QTKit/QuickTime X’s HTTP Live Streaming)
AirPlay support
Photo sharing support
YouTube HD

Edited for non-US customers. ;)

Stuart21
Sep 15, 2010, 01:57 PM
Wel my main purpose for getting atv would be for playing my movie library. How long does it take to sync a movie from your computer to atv. I have more then 160gb of movies and that's why I thought the new atv may be better since I can just leave my movies on my computer and stream them. I also believe u can get a 160gb for 150 on apple site now.

cube
Sep 15, 2010, 02:07 PM
The old one can also be used as a standalone music jukebox without a TV.

gkarris
Sep 15, 2010, 02:16 PM
No Component or Analog Audio on the new one - bad for those of us with older panels/HT systems... :(

(I guess if you can afford an Apple, you can afford to update your system every year or so...)

davige
Sep 15, 2010, 02:22 PM
Old - Cons
Price - $229 ($299 originally)

Apple Store clearance price $149
Apple Store refurb price $129

Stuart21
Sep 15, 2010, 02:34 PM
What can you do with boxee on the atv?

NightStorm
Sep 15, 2010, 02:46 PM
I think they’ll change it back once it ships and they receive feedback again. They tried that with Apple TV OS 2.0 and customers didn’t like it. The new Apple TV’s menu system makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

I plan on leaving them quite a bit of feedback on the issue once the new Apple TV ships.

Agreed; I've already left feedback regarding this change, and hope it doesn't take three major software versions for them to fix it (like it took with the ATV v1). I'll be sure to submit more feedback once the device ships.

tads2110
Sep 15, 2010, 04:22 PM
Apple has seriously dropped the ball with this one and are making some serious assumptions about end-user home networks. Steve Jobs obviously thinks that everyone has a kick-ass fiber internet connection with unlimited downloads. HD content sucks bandwidth and GB's and not everyone has the capability to just "stream" a movie off the cloud (or for that matter another computer. Many people don't leave their computers on so why switch it on just so you can use another product?)

The classic ATV (I call it classic rather than "old" because it still has many benefits albeit it has been EOL'ed) works because you can use it as a stand alone product. SJ even mentioned it in one of his keynotes. "You do not need a computer to use ATV Take 2". If your internet or Wi-Fi drops with the "improved" ATV then you are essentially left with a black plastic doorstop.

If Apple wants to be serious about ATV then it needs to do three things: bring back the hard-drive and introduce a HD tuner and Blu-ray along side its current configuration. Keep your $99 jobbie for the basics but have the option to purchase a "complete" TV component. It's a no-brainer.

Whilst you're at it Apple, maybe go back to your grass roots and design a new small-form MacPro that end-users can actually configure. I love my iMac to death but why should I spend another $2K just so I can update the graphics card?

Yvan256
Sep 15, 2010, 04:48 PM
Has anyone seen the new AppleTV yet? Why do people keep saying it's plastic? Since it's an Apple product it wouldn't surprise me at all if it was black anodized machined aluminium.

gkarris
Sep 15, 2010, 08:00 PM
Has anyone seen the new AppleTV yet? Why do people keep saying it's plastic? Since it's an Apple product it wouldn't surprise me at all if it was black anodized machined aluminium.

Not for $99... :eek:

Yvan256
Sep 15, 2010, 08:16 PM
Not for $99... :eek:

The iPod shuffle is 49$USD and it's a small, color anodized extruded and/or machined aluminium casing.

jaw04005
Sep 16, 2010, 05:56 PM
The iPod shuffle is 49$USD and it's a small, color anodized extruded and/or machined aluminium casing.

It doesnít have a $20 A4 processor, WiFi, HDMI, etc either. The press previews have indicated itís plastic.

Omne666
Sep 16, 2010, 10:34 PM
[QUOTE=jaw04005;11066371]You could go on forever, but here ...

Old - Pros[/B]
480p, 1080i and 1080p output support

Old - Cons[/B]
No 720p@30 FPS support[/B]
Old white Apple remote

Hmmmm....have you actually play 1080p/i on the classic aTV?? I cant. In fact, whilst adding it to iTunes, the movie doesn't even show up on my aTVs. Best I can push it to is 720p @ 25fps.

And personally, I love the old white remote.

jaw04005
Sep 17, 2010, 12:32 AM
Hmmmm....have you actually play 1080p/i on the classic aTV?? I cant. In fact, whilst adding it to iTunes, the movie doesn't even show up on my aTVs. Best I can push it to is 720p @ 25fps.

And personally, I love the old white remote.

1080i/p output support is not the same as 1080i/p playback support.

ovrlrd
Sep 17, 2010, 12:46 AM
1080i/p output support is not the same as 1080i/p playback support.

Few people understand this distinction. I have had hard times trying to explain it to people for like 45 minutes straight before. It is like the people who think PS3 games are all 1080p because the console supports 1080p output, even though most games are 720p.

Omne666
Sep 19, 2010, 09:59 AM
Few people understand this distinction. I have had hard times trying to explain it to people for like 45 minutes straight before. It is like the people who think PS3 games are all 1080p because the console supports 1080p output, even though most games are 720p.

I understand that if the source isnt 1080i/p, the PS3 isnt suddenly going to make it so. But as the aTV is purely a playback device, talk of it supporting 1080i/p is confusing for me. Like I said, even at 720p, Ive found if I get the fps or audio channels wrong, it wont show up on aTV despite iTunes happily accepting it. (I understand that iTunes is supporting what it can, and aTV is showing what it can support, being the lesser) Mind filling me in a bit?

akm3
Sep 19, 2010, 10:41 AM
No Component or Analog Audio on the new one - bad for those of us with older panels/HT systems... :(

(I guess if you can afford an Apple, you can afford to update your system every year or so...)

I agree with what you are saying in principle, but HDMI has been standard on TV's for a lot longer than 'a year or so'

Yvan256
Sep 19, 2010, 11:02 AM
I agree with what you are saying in principle, but HDMI has been standard on TV's for a lot longer than 'a year or so'

Most people don't upgrade their TV as often as their computers. There's usually not much reason to upgrade a TV, once you made the CRT->LCD/Plasma switch.

BertyBoy
Sep 19, 2010, 03:34 PM
I'm looking on eBay, and the original :apple:TVs are already down to the $100 range, some brand new.

Can't say it's been the case in the UK. Before the new ATV annoncement, the 160GB models went for £80 - £100 deending on original box / original remote.
The UK Apple Store had them on clearance at £149, sold out almost immediately nad now the 2nd hand 160GB ATVs are fetching £140 + P+P on eBay. I missed one 2 days ago that eventually went for £142 + £9 P+P.

Can anyone shed any light on just what is used for caching say a 4GB movie on the new ATV ? As is often bemoaned in the forums, if your main computer is a laptop, people hate having to leave it on, and any external drive containing the movies, etc, if you decide to watch a movie at bedtime.