"Cyberpower offers Pure Sinewave UPS alternative" - finally a cheaper UPS solution?

[Icaras]

Here's some breaking news (just today) from Cyberpower concerning their just released PFC UPS models which uses their new "adaptive sinewave" technology.

I figure this will be of much interest for many of us that have been constantly going at it at the various UPS threads debating constantly over sine waves and buzzing noises (Macrumors forums at it's finest :D)

Here's the link to Cyberpower's article, which then links to the real article: http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/about-us/news/in-the-news-cyberpower-offers-channel-pure-sinewave-ups-alternative.html

Here's the link to the whole article by CDN: http://www.itbusiness.ca/it/client/en/cdn/News.asp?id=59349

Here is the link to the 1500va model on Cyberpower's site for those that are interested: http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products/ups-systems/intelligent-lcd-ups/CP1500PFCLCD.html

Here's an excerpt from the article:

Vendors such as HP, Dell, Lenovo and Acer are recommending a Pure Sinewave UPS for Active PFC-based systems. But Backman said Pure Sinewave is designed for high-end, mission critical systems and has the price-tag to match at $400 or more. It's just too pricy an option for the consumer, small office/home office or even SMB customer, he said.

“If you spend $1500 on a system and a Pure Sinewave UPS is $400, that's a pretty big investment for an accessory,” said Backman. “Most consumers won't spend more than 10 per cent of the purchase price of their PC to get power backup.”

I'd like to think pricing has a lot to do with much of the debate that goes on concerning pure sinewave UPSes, even though it may not be spoken much. This article actually came at a funny time because I just shot an email to CP yesterday inquiring about the new PFC models and if these are meant to be the appropriate type of consumer UPSes for the Mac Pro and received this reply:

Yes, I believe you are right on when selecting the 1500PFCLCD for your
Mac Pro.
It's not a matter of a non-pure sine wave battery backup damaging your
computer when the unit is running on battery power....it wouldn't damage
it. However, when power is cut, and the unit begins outputting
simulated sine wave, an Active PFC PSU could reject that power, and the
computer could reboot or restart, which would essentially void the whole
point of having a battery backup.
So with your setup, the CP1500PFCLCD would be the unit I would
recommend.

Thanks,
Jeff Peterson
Tech Support
CyberPower Systems

Now of course, I understand that any company will want to sell you their product, so such email replies received by vendors should always be taken with a grain of salt. Also, I tried searching for any type of user or press reviews for these units and it seems these new PFC models are so new in fact, that they were just added to Amazon's inventory only just last month, and are still largely unavailable for sale. So it seems none of these are out yet in the wild. At least not long enough to see some user reviews. Here's another email reply from Jeff at CP regarding reviews:

The units are so new that I haven't really looked for reviews yet.
I've used them here, and they seem to function quite nicely.
Sorry I don't have much more info on them though.

However, referencing page 6 of this thread: Uninterruptable Power Supply threads (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1004739&page=6)? by Ravich, in post #134, w00tini observed adamant promotion by Cyberpower in Newegg's AVRLCD user reviews to actively inform customers of their new PFC UPSes with adaptive sine wave technology for high end machines like the Mac Pro.

Here is a direct link to Newegg's user reviews for the Cyberpower CP1500AVRLCD model, as pointed out by w00tini in the above mentioned thread: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=42-102-048&SortField=0&SummaryType=0&PageSize=10&SelectedRating=-1&VideoOnlyMark=False&IsFeedbackTab=true#scrollFullInfo

You'll be able to see CP's active role in customer interaction here, mentioning their PFC lineup on several ocassions.

Though I have been unsuccessful to find a proper white paper or get an adequate concrete answer from AppleCare on the Mac Pro's exact PSU specification, I believe a PFC PSU is part of the Energy Star 5.0 rating, according to Cyberpower at Newegg, and also based on more internet forum ramblings, which the Mac Pro is rated as. Take that as you will. If there is some common knowledge that is properly documented out there concerning the Mac Pro PSU confirming it to be a PFC, then please feel free to share any findings.

So I just sent back my CP1500AVRLCD to Amazon due to a relapse in indecisiveness, but my interest is now piqued for new PFC these models. I'm personally hoping these will work as promised, provide less stress for the PSU while on battery, and finally get rid of that pesky buzzing sound. If anything, CP covers up to $425,000 compared to APC's $150,000 for their comparatively specced Back-UPS BR models. Like w00tini, I think I'll be ordering one and see how it works and try to report back as well.

It's worth noting that this seems to be the very first consumer UPS product designed to work with PFC PSUs without the use of a pure sine wave. So I am curious as how fast and in what way will competitors react to these new products, assuming of course, this stuff actually works and isn't just more marketing baloney :rolleyes:

So I ask: any thoughts on this development?? Anyone think that this could be a big step in UPS technology?

[Vylen]

All I can say is that I'm very interested. But dunno when or where I'll be finding them in Australia.

[w00tini]

bought this one (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842102134) a few days ago... should arrive Wednesday.

i will do a full review with video once i get a chance to get it all setup.

[leftPCbehind209]

bought http://www.jdoqocy.com/image-3160356-10521304this one (http://www.jdoqocy.com/click-3160356-10521304?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newegg.com%2FProduct%2FProduct.aspx%3FItem%3DN82E16842102134) a few days ago... should arrive Wednesday.

How does the one you purchased compare with this one:

http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/about/753883232/apc-s10

[w00tini]

How does the one you purchased compare with this one:

http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/about/753883232/apc-s10

that APC unit looks good on paper (pure sinewave) and should do the job for the most part. are there any reviews of it online?

the customer reviews look pretty good. looks to weigh over 80lbs though. i wonder what the fans sound like.

[Icaras]

bought this one (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842102134) a few days ago... should arrive Wednesday.

i will do a full review with video once i get a chance to get it all setup.

Video review?? Nice! I'm getting impatient myself and might go ahead order this today...

As for the above sine wave unit, I think if cost is a small factor and if you intend to use the UPS to continue work while on battery, then you're still getting the purest energy in a sine wave form unit. You certainly can't go wrong with that.

[dissolve]

Thanks for that info. For those in the US, Amazon has these models listed well below MSRP. Haven't checked too many sites, but it seems to be one of the lowest prices.

[w00tini]

Thanks for that info. For those in the US, Amazon has these models listed well below MSRP. Haven't checked too many sites, but it seems to be one of the lowest prices.

they were not in stock on amazon when I looked. the scheduled ship date was oct 25. Thats why I went with newegg

[dissolve]

they were not in stock on amazon when I looked. the scheduled ship date was oct 25. Thats why I went with newegg

Good point. Amazon is hosting a sale through another company that seems to have them in stock. Not much difference in price from newegg so you made the right call. Looking forward to your review :)

[2contagious]

So Icaras, do you have a buzzing PSU, too? I thought dissolve and I were the only two buzzers here :D I noticed that when using the sliders in Lightroom, the power supply's buzzing sound increases. What does this meaaaannn :D I think there are angry bees in our Mac Pros :rolleyes:

[johnnymg]

The CP Pro series have significantly better specs (at each Wattage rating) and are only a little bit more $'s. You should look at both very carefully before you jump for either series.

I've had a good experience with CP products and will purchase from them again. I'm on travel right now but will check the power usage of my MP on Sunday and order a Pro unit with 2x the power rating.

cheers
JohnG

[dissolve]

So Icaras, do you have a buzzing PSU, too? I thought dissolve and I were the only two buzzers here :D I noticed that when using the sliders in Lightroom, the power supply's buzzing sound increases. What does this meaaaannn :D I think there are angry bees in our Mac Pros :rolleyes:

EDIT: moving to a more appropriate thread...carry on :)

[Icaras]

So Icaras, do you have a buzzing PSU, too? I thought dissolve and I were the only two buzzers here :D I noticed that when using the sliders in Lightroom, the power supply's buzzing sound increases. What does this meaaaannn :D I think there are angry bees in our Mac Pros :rolleyes:

Yea, it buzzed whenever I switched to battery, but it only then. I don't have a normally buzzing PSU by itself.

The CP Pro series have significantly better specs (at each Wattage rating) and are only a little bit more $'s. You should look at both very carefully before you jump for either series.

I've had a good experience with CP products and will purchase from them again. I'm on travel right now but will check the power usage of my MP on Sunday and order a Pro unit with 2x the power rating.

cheers
JohnG

Are you talking about their PFC lineup, or something different?

[johnnymg]

Yea, it buzzed whenever I switched to battery, but it only then. I don't have a normally buzzing PSU by itself.



Are you talking about their PFC lineup, or something different?

Greetings

I'm referring to the PP series. CP has a variety of UPS's in this series and all of them are pure sine wave. Additionally, the surge rating and battery size is much larger than the "consumer' models.

I just measured the power draw from my 2010 3.2 GHz MP (5770) and it peaked out at 235W when running 32 bit Geekbench. This was for a bare bones MP............... i.e. no additional HD's other than the stock 1 TB. I'm figuring another ~25 Watts after I add the data HD's. My monitor is a 24" ACD which runs ~100W. Will also have an additional external drive which might add another ~100W. So, the overall power budget will be ~500W at full load (worst case). The setup will probably run more like 250W most of the time but you have to size the UPS for worst case conditions.

Anyway, here's a link to the 1KW UPS which would provide 2x the power capacity of the WC condition. This is probably a bit overkill and the 700W unit would likely be totally sufficient even for a 500W WC load.

http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products/ups-systems/smart-app-ups/pp-series/PP1500SWT2.html

Note: Provantage sells this unit for $273 + shipping which is ~$33 to Az.

Cheers
JohnG

[Sun Baked]

Sort of have to think a second to see if you want a new pristine Unit, or a scuffed possibly dented refurbished Pure Sine APC 1400/1500 for $180-250.

We've been telling people to step up to a used big APC Smart UPS, but having something in the range new might get them to step over to those.

Since people would always like to be the first to fart in their $750-1000 Hermann Miller chair than buying used for $250-350. And the same holds true for soo many other products.

[nanofrog]

Sort of have to think a second to see if you want a new pristine Unit, or a scuffed possibly dented refurbished Pure Sine APC 1400/1500 for $180-250.

We've been telling people to step up to a used big APC Smart UPS, but having something in the range new might get them to step over to those.

Since people would always like to be the first to fart in their $750-1000 Hermann Miller chair than buying used for $250-350. And the same holds true for soo many other products.
Assuming these new units work as advertised, it would offer an alternative. But I'd still go for a refurbished unit that outputs a pure sine wave, as the new CyberPower series in question is still a compromise vs. pure sine wave. Period.

So those in the market for a UPS, please don't forget that. ;)

[w00tini]

it's here

http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz55/straferight/bb58823d.jpg

will get it setup and report back...

[Icaras]

Sweet! Looking forward to it :)

[ActionableMango]

that APC unit looks good on paper (pure sinewave) and should do the job for the most part. are there any reviews of it online?

the customer reviews look pretty good. looks to weigh over 80lbs though. i wonder what the fans sound like.

I just got mine from Vanns and posted a review.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1026043

[w00tini]

I just got mine from Vanns and posted a review.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1026043
cool man! i thought those fans would be audible considering the vents in the side of the unit. still, that thing's a hoss and to only hear the fans under battery power is cool.

i'll be banging out some thoughts on mine tonight. stay tuned...

[w00tini]

life popped up tonight... wasn't able to do any video but here's the skinny:

Works flawlessly. Jumped into 'test' mode where it runs on battery and it reported ~19 minutes of juice running a Hex-core MacPro, 4 hard drives, and TWO 27" Apple Cinema Displays!

No buzzing on battery and just a barely audible fan increase on the UPS.

It's awesome. I'm so happy this worked out.

I'll try to get an iPhone video up tomorrow. It's really nice.

[Icaras]

life popped up tonight... wasn't able to do any video but here's the skinny:

Works flawlessly. Jumped into 'test' mode where it runs on battery and it reported ~19 minutes of juice running a Hex-core MacPro, 4 hard drives, and TWO 27" Apple Cinema Displays!

No buzzing on battery and just a barely audible fan increase on the UPS.

It's awesome. I'm so happy this worked out.

I'll try to get an iPhone video up tomorrow. It's really nice.

Yay, no buzzing :) Thanks for posting your impressions so far. I'm guessing the no buzzing noise indicates that the adaptive sinewave technology is actually working, as promised, but only time will tell obviously.

I look forward to your video whenever you can. I've already placed an order at Amazon but seems like it won't ship for a few weeks.

[codymac]

Has anyone stumbled across an output waveform of CyberPower's "Adaptive Sinewave?"

Just curious.

[nanofrog]

life popped up tonight... wasn't able to do any video but here's the skinny:

Works flawlessly. Jumped into 'test' mode where it runs on battery and it reported ~19 minutes of juice running a Hex-core MacPro, 4 hard drives, and TWO 27" Apple Cinema Displays!

No buzzing on battery and just a barely audible fan increase on the UPS.

It's awesome. I'm so happy this worked out.

I'll try to get an iPhone video up tomorrow. It's really nice.
Sounds good. :)

If you would, keep a sharp eye on it, and let us know how it goes (see if it's consistent over time). ;)

[dissolve]

After reading through some of Cyberpower's tech specs, I noticed their "Green UPS technology."

During normal power mode the GreenPower UPS™ design bypasses the Automatic Voltage Regulation (AVR) and Transformer.

Does this mean you'd need a voltage regulator as well, or would the system switch on during a power sag or spike? I'm talking about slight variations in power, not the large surges or full brown/blackouts. Any ideas? Do other UPS systems do the same thing?

[nanofrog]

After reading through some of Cyberpower's tech specs, I noticed their "Green UPS technology."

Does this mean you'd need a voltage regulator as well, or would the system switch on during a power sag or spike? I'm talking about slight variations in power, not the large surges or full brown/blackouts. Any ideas? Do other UPS systems do the same thing?
The AVR and Transformer essentially are an AC Voltage regulator. But if it goes totally inactive, it's completely useless, as it's not engaged (= system gets whatever is on the wall until the battery is switched on).

What I suspect they're doing, is AVR and the Transformer get switched "on" when it senses a sag or spike on the wall (AVR fully activates, then selects the correct tap to use, if it's still within the 90 - 140VAC range = not on batteries, according to their specs). But that means there's switching involved = delay before the wall voltage is within design tolerances (voltage swing isn't enough to require switching to the batteries).

This way they bypass the transformer's losses, and to a lesser extent, the AVR (uses relays to select the correct taps to get the AC voltage within the designed range; i.e. bypass the analog parts and only leaves the digital controller active until it senses a point something needs to be activated).

Hope this makes sense.

[dissolve]

The AVR and Transformer essentially are an AC Voltage regulator. But if it goes totally inactive, it's completely useless, as it's not engaged (= system gets whatever is on the wall until the battery is switched on).

What I suspect they're doing, is AVR and the Transformer get switched "on" when it senses a sag or spike on the wall (AVR fully activates, then selects the correct tap to use, if it's still within the 90 - 140VAC range = not on batteries, according to their specs). But that means there's switching involved = delay before the wall voltage is within design tolerances (voltage swing isn't enough to require switching to the batteries).

This way they bypass the transformer's losses, and to a lesser extent, the AVR (uses relays to select the correct taps to get the AC voltage within the designed range; i.e. bypass the analog parts and only leaves the digital controller active until it senses a point something needs to be activated).

Hope this makes sense.

Then, just to be clear, is technique inferior to other UPS systems that leave a voltage regulator on at all times or is that delay not much to worry about? I ask because I'm primarily concerned with feeding proper power (within reason...can't afford a line interactive unit) to the MP. But, I figure it's still worth it to spring for a proper UPS than just a simple voltage regulator.

[nanofrog]

Then, just to be clear, is technique inferior to other UPS systems that leave a voltage regulator on at all times or is that delay not much to worry about? I ask because I'm primarily concerned with feeding proper power (within reason...can't afford a line interactive unit) to the MP. But, I figure it's still worth it to spring for a proper UPS than just a simple voltage regulator.
It's inferior in terms of the protection (no delay for a 24/7 AVR + transformer unit vs. delay on this model = equipment will see a short period of the brown-out or spike before the system reacts to correct it), but it also requires more power during normal operation. Basically, it's a trade-off (power draw vs. protection). But may also be an attempt to lower costs from the manufacturer's POV (expectation that the transformer won't need to be quite as large due to a lower duty cycle, so it can be a lower rating as it's not expected to run long enough to overheat). BTW, this is a line interactive unit (it has AVR and a transformer), but it's not always active according to the available information on the Green UPS feature.

Personally I see this as a bit of gimmickry to reduce manufacturing costs (cheaper transformer). So I'd place the primary function of protection above power draw on an expensive system. Which means I'd skip this unit until it's been proven to offer sufficient protection for more expensive systems (not sure what the switch time is). It's probably acceptable for more of a budget box (to keep the % of the system cost within reason, as more systems are using PFC based PSU's in order to achieve Energy Star compliance).

[dissolve]

It's inferior in terms of the protection (no delay for a 24/7 AVR + transformer unit vs. delay on this model = equipment will see a short period of the brown-out or spike before the system reacts to correct it), but it also requires more power during normal operation. Basically, it's a trade-off (power draw vs. protection). But may also be an attempt to lower costs from the manufacturer's POV (expectation that the transformer won't need to be quite as large due to a lower duty cycle, so it can be a lower rating as it's not expected to run long enough to overheat). BTW, this is a line interactive unit (it has AVR and a transformer), but it's not always active according to the available information on the Green UPS feature.

Personally I see this as a bit of gimmickry to reduce manufacturing costs (cheaper transformer). So I'd place the primary function of protection above power draw on an expensive system. Which means I'd skip this unit until it's been proven to offer sufficient protection for more expensive systems (not sure what the switch time is). It's probably acceptable for more of a budget box (to keep the % of the system cost within reason, as more systems are using PFC based PSU's in order to achieve Energy Star compliance).

Thanks for your input. My mistake, I meant an online unit rather than line interactive. You bring up some very good points that I was thinking while reading the tech specs of this UPS. I don't trust the wiring in my new place, so I'm certainly looking out for something to guard against voltage fluctuations. Definitely looking forward to reviews from the others in this thread when theirs is delivered :)

[nanofrog]

Thanks for your input. My mistake, I meant an online unit rather than line interactive. You bring up some very good points that I was thinking while reading the tech specs of this UPS. I don't trust the wiring in my new place, so I'm certainly looking out for something to guard against voltage fluctuations. Definitely looking forward to reviews from the others in this thread when theirs is delivered :)
An Online/Double Conversion unit offers the best level of protection from brownouts, spikes, and blackouts. But since they're running off of the batteries + inverter all of the time (results in the most stable voltage to the equipment), they're more expensive due to better parts and heatsinking (= higher manufacturing cost).

That's why I recommended go with a refurbished unit (way cheaper than new). ;)

[w00tini]

been a few days and no reports of the UPS kicking in at all or having to regulate to the point it reports to the software.

very quiet and a small form factor that allowed me to snuggle it right next to my Mac Pro under the desk.

I'm not running the system for any professional means and don't have it on 24/7 so I feel this was a good choice for me and my situational needs.

I def would have switched to a 20 amp box and bought a $500+ unit were this a business investment. Frog brings up some good points that should be taken into consideration if you're using this UPS on a business-critical device.

[dissolve]

been a few days and no reports of the UPS kicking in at all or having to regulate to the point it reports to the software.

very quiet and a small form factor that allowed me to snuggle it right next to my Mac Pro under the desk.

I'm not running the system for any professional means and don't have it on 24/7 so I feel this was a good choice for me and my situational needs.

I def would have switched to a 20 amp box and bought a $500+ unit were this a business investment. Frog brings up some good points that should be taken into consideration if you're using this UPS on a business-critical device.

I feel like your situation is identical to mine. I've looked at some refurb units from APC (the Smart-UPS series) and a similarly priced model appears inferior to this model: no USB and lower load ratings. The AVR potential issue is the only hangup for me.

[nanofrog]

I def would have switched to a 20 amp box and bought a $500+ unit were this a business investment. Frog brings up some good points that should be taken into consideration if you're using this UPS on a business-critical device.
I understand your POV (based on usage), but when you think in terms of the system's purchase price, the additional protection seems warranted IMO.

I'd be fine with one of these less expensive units on a cheaper system (say no more than ~$1500 or so), but not so much when the purchase price is in the Mac Pro range (i.e. workstation systems, not consumer units). This is worse to me, when you consider any added equipment such as RAID, external storage, specialty cards of some sort, ... Granted, you're more into professional systems at this point, but some users may have systems like this and not be pros.

But based on the base system price of a Quad, you can get a refurbished pure sine wave Line Interactive unit (10% of MSRP = $250, which will get you a refurbished SUA1500, SMT1500 or similar level of UPS). Better way to go IMO. ;)

I feel like your situation is identical to mine. I've looked at some refurb units from APC (the Smart-UPS series) and a similarly priced model appears inferior to this model: no USB and lower load ratings. The AVR potential issue is the only hangup for me.
See above.

If you insist on new, and your actual load isn't that high (base isn't; ~200 - 250W I should think), you could consider the S10 on vann's (1000VA, pure sine wave, Line Interactive model; $200 here (http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/details/753883232/apc-s10)).

It's pure sine, so won't have any issues with PFC based power supplies. Nor does it rely on gimmickry to be able to work with such PSU's. All in all, a better unit (no switching delays with the AVR and transformer vs. the PFC capable stepped CyberPower units). ;)

[dissolve]

See above.

If you insist on new, and your actual load isn't that high (base isn't; ~200 - 250W I should think), you could consider the S10 on vann's (1000VA, pure sine wave, Line Interactive model; $200 here (http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/details/753883232/apc-s10)).

It's pure sine, so won't have any issues with PFC based power supplies. Nor does it rely on gimmickry to be able to work with such PSU's. All in all, a better unit (no switching delays with the AVR and transformer vs. the PFC capable stepped CyberPower units). ;)

I appreciate your suggestions. I'm certainly not opposed to refurbished units, it just appeared that this Cyberpower provided better options at a lower price. I'm still try to decide if that statement is true or not for my uses. BTW, I didn't mention it, but I'm eyeing the 850VA or 1000VA version as my loads will be very low. I'll read into that model you linked.

[nanofrog]

I appreciate your suggestions. I'm certainly not opposed to refurbished units, it just appeared that this Cyberpower provided better options at a lower price. I'm still try to decide if that statement is true or not for my uses. BTW, I didn't mention it, but I'm eyeing the 850VA or 1000VA version as my loads will be very low. I'll read into that model you linked.
OK, if you're interested in ~$165 price range, take a look at:

refurbished SUA1000 ($159 here (http://www.upsforless.com/apcsua1000ref.aspx))

Based on cost alone you're in the right range. And the SUA1000 or S10 happen to be better units than the CyberPower model you're looking at (awsome deal for the S10 at $200 new, and it has a better surge rating than the SUA1000).

Seriously, I can't stress how much pure sine is better than stepped (no matter how well they may have implemented it, but it's almost certainly a way of cutting costs, as they have pure sine wave units that cost much more; rather similar to APC, Tripp Lite, Eaton,... for pricing). That lower cost is for a reason.

And the Green Power feature of the CyberPower model does put the system at more risk for brown-outs and spikes than an always active unit such as the two models I've linked, due to the switching delay involved in the CyberPower unit.

So for the same money, play it safe IMO. Get the better inverter and AVR system, and be done with it (absolutely true from a technical perspective, not smoke out my ....).

[Icaras]

Definitely looking forward to reviews from the others in this thread when theirs is delivered :)

I ordered my unit earlier this week and it's set to arrive tomorrow. Will be back for additional impressions :)

been a few days and no reports of the UPS kicking in at all or having to regulate to the point it reports to the software.

very quiet and a small form factor that allowed me to snuggle it right next to my Mac Pro under the desk.

I'm not running the system for any professional means and don't have it on 24/7 so I feel this was a good choice for me and my situational needs.

I def would have switched to a 20 amp box and bought a $500+ unit were this a business investment. Frog brings up some good points that should be taken into consideration if you're using this UPS on a business-critical device.

I feel like your situation is identical to mine. I've looked at some refurb units from APC (the Smart-UPS series) and a similarly priced model appears inferior to this model: no USB and lower load ratings. The AVR potential issue is the only hangup for me.

Yep, I'm in exactly the same situation, which is why I went for this unit. I definitely intend to use my Mac Pro for professional means later down the road, but right now, my work isn't mission critical.

By the way, glad to hear good stuff on it's minimalism and quietness. :)

I understand your POV (based on usage), but when you think in terms of the system's purchase price, the additional protection seems warranted IMO.

It's pure sine, so won't have any issues with PFC based power supplies. Nor does it rely on gimmickry to be able to work with such PSU's. All in all, a better unit (no switching delays with the AVR and transformer vs. the PFC capable stepped CyberPower units). ;)

This is all fine and dandy but is it truly, crucially, critical to have a pure sine wave for a user base with conditions such as ours?

I don't even remember last having a black out in my area and as I said before, my work is not mission critical at the moment. My only intent is to simply and gracefully shut down my Mac Pro within 1 minute of any sort of power outage. I will not be working on battery.

So, will one minute of an approximated step sine wave in probably 1-3 times a year seriously wreak havok on the Mac Pro power supply? It just seems incredibly far fetched if you ask me and which is why for conditions like ours, I just can't seem to justify spending 3 times as much on a UPS just so that the Mac Pro can feel good for a minute of battery time. And we should compare refurbs to refurbs when we talk about prices because I'm sure you can even get these stepped sine wave models for even cheaper.

Anyway, no scientific analysis here. Just giving my two cents based off my situation. :)

Edit: Oops, I should say "adaptive sine wave" as w00tini reminds us in the post below since I'm really referring to this new unit.

[w00tini]

nano,
would it be safe to say the only component that could potentially be harmed is the PSU? from what I've read that seems to be the case.

also, the unit we are talking about is not stepped, it is adaptive. do the same points you are making apply? sorry for my ignorance here, I'm still a nub when it comes to the ins and outs of the flow of electricity. but I'm learning a lot from you!

[dissolve]

OK, if you're interested in ~$165 price range, take a look at:

refurbished SUA1000 ($159 here (http://www.upsforless.com/apcsua1000ref.aspx))

Based on cost alone you're in the right range. And the SUA1000 or S10 happen to be better units than the CyberPower model you're looking at (awsome deal for the S10 at $200 new, and it has a better surge rating than the SUA1000).

Seriously, I can't stress how much pure sine is better than stepped (no matter how well they may have implemented it, but it's almost certainly a way of cutting costs, as they have pure sine wave units that cost much more; rather similar to APC, Tripp Lite, Eaton,... for pricing). That lower cost is for a reason.

And the Green Power feature of the CyberPower model does put the system at more risk for brown-outs and spikes than an always active unit such as the two models I've linked, due to the switching delay involved in the CyberPower unit.

So for the same money, play it safe IMO. Get the better inverter and AVR system, and be done with it (absolutely true from a technical perspective, not smoke out my ....).

Thanks for that link, I hadn't seen that site before. That's a great price for the model (except for shipping...$35 USD to me :eek: ). Believe me, I'm certainly not disagreeing with your points at all. Mainly trying to figure out what my yet-to-be-determined budget can get me. I'm thinking the unit you linked is my absolute max as I had only intended on getting a voltage regulator before reading these threads. Thanks, MacRumors ;)

[johnnymg]

snip...............
Edit: Oops, I should say "adaptive sine wave" as w00tini reminds us in the post below since I'm really referring to this new unit.

Stick your ear next to the PSU (while on bat power) and see if the PSU makes a very low buzzing sound. If not, then the shape of the voltage waveform is "OK" and you can call it anything you want. :p

JohnG

[Icaras]

Stick your ear next to the PSU (while on bat power) and see if the PSU makes a very low buzzing sound. If not, then the shape of the voltage waveform is "OK" and you can call it anything you want. :p

JohnG

Ha, I'm aware of marketing gimmicks, but I will definitely be listening to any sort of odd noises.

[johnnymg]

Ha, I'm aware of marketing gimmicks, but I will definitely be listening to any sort of odd noises.

FWIW, the PSU in my 2010 MPO makes a VERY low level buzz sound with a standard square wave input (CP AVR 1500). Had to stick my ear right up to the back of the unit to hear it. Although I think the buzz issue is not an issue of concern (for me), if buying a UPS for a new MP it does make sense to buy one that has a sine wave or approximated sine output when on bats.

Congrats on the new backup power
JohnG

[Icaras]

FWIW, the PSU in my 2010 MPO makes a VERY low level buzz sound with a standard square wave input (CP AVR 1500). Had to stick my ear right up to the back of the unit to hear it. Although I think the buzz issue is not an issue of concern (for me), if buying a UPS for a new MP it does make sense to buy one that has a sine wave or approximated sine output when on bats.

Congrats on the new backup power
JohnG

Oh, I thought the CPAVRLCD units also had approximated sine waves? Well, actually on their specs it says "Simulated sine wave".

And thank you. :) I do hope it all works as intended however.

[Schismz]

Just to preface this message, I haven't read this entire thread, I tend to briefly drift through here whenever I obtain a brand new system, login some account, then forget about it for years at a time, I don't really have the habit of adding the forums to my browser and then checking 'em every day, so if you pm'd me or reply, then please know I'm not ignoring you or being rude, I'm just not reading it...

I live where electricity goes in and out sometimes, it's a rural area, where I have highly-overpriced underground cables running to the house itself, but when the road floods or a tree falls on the power lines 3 miles down the road, there's not much I can do to control that.

Due to these conditions I have a whole-house backup generator which will bring the entire house online, within 60 seconds of power failure, and keep it going for a very long time (weeks, not hours or days).

I need my UPS to work for about 61 seconds, that's it. I don't need it to shut down the computer gracefully or do much of anything else. I have a variety of different UPS, but the 12-core Mac Pro, all drive bays filled, RAID0, SSDs, etc, with dual 27" Apple LEDs, is plugged into this:

http://www.provantage.com/cyberpower-systems-pp1500swt2~7CYPR02Q.htm

It's not sexy, no pretty LCD, will probably cause a bleeding black hole in the ground that makes the earth cry when recycled, but... it's a UPS, I don't look at it, ever actually, it's pure sine wave, it works with no problems whatsoever, no weird humming from power supply of Mac Pro.

I'm very happy with this unit, I'm not sure what the point is of buying a "simulated/adaptive sine wave" UPS, from the same company, when you can get pure sine, for $300 bucks (MSRP is $400+ but it's not like you have to pay that much).

Just saying.

EDIT: ok, duh, just noticed someone posted pretty much the same thing somewhere near the start of this thread, but the msg was mostly ignored. I'm still not sure I understand the point of trying to save $80 bucks, to buy a cheaper UPS, made by exactly the same company, to protect a computer you spent $5K+ on... ?

[w00tini]

Cyberpower is actively suggesting the UPS in question for the Mac Pro. That's why I went with it. It's smaller and has pretty lights too :)

[johnnymg]

Jsnip...............
I'm very happy with this unit, I'm not sure what the point is of buying a "simulated/adaptive sine wave" UPS, from the same company, when you can get pure sine, for $300 bucks (MSRP is $400+ but it's not like you have to pay that much).

snip.........

Greets

Thanks for stopping by and giving us an update on that CP unit. FWIW, I can't imagine buying a refurb unit when these are available.

Question for you: What sort of generator system (and how much fuel) do you need for a monthlong house backup? :eek:

regards
JohnG

[w00tini]

Sorry it took me so long, but here's a video of the 1500PFCLCD in action (watch in 720HD):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXsy_L7brig&feature=player_profilepage

[philipma1957]

Sorry it took me so long, but here's a video of the 1500PFCLCD in action (watch in 720HD):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXsy_L7brig&feature=player_profilepage

thanks for taking the time to film it.

[dissolve]

Sorry it took me so long, but here's a video of the 1500PFCLCD in action (watch in 720HD):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXsy_L7brig&feature=player_profilepage

Thank you for that. Very solid review. I know you haven't had it long, but have you witnessed any under or overvoltage situations short of forcing it to use battery? Probably doesn't alarm in that situation so I imagine not...

[w00tini]

Thank you for that. Very solid review. I know you haven't had it long, but have you witnessed any under or overvoltage situations short of forcing it to use battery? Probably doesn't alarm in that situation so I imagine not...
it will tell you in the cpanel if it has done so, and nope... no reports of that so far.

[Icaras]

Very nice review w00t. Yes, thank you very much for making this and sharing this with MR.

I just got my unit in today and it's all set up as well. However, I haven't tried the battery yet since I want it to be well charged first before I test my unit, but very glad to hear that there are no buzzing noises.

I really do like the small footprint and how extremely quiet it is. Noise-wise, it seems identical to the AVRLCD series in terms of audible noise, which seems to be virtually none! I know there has been some nasty feedback on APC's new UPS (back-UPS RS and Smart-UPS SMT) models in terms of fan noise (very very noisy from what I've read on APC's user forums), so I'm liking the extremely low key functionality of CP's units so far.

Of course however, but like Nano states, the ultimate test will be its stability and reliability over time and how well the Mac Pro will react to the adaptive sine wave.

But so far, so good. :)

[w00tini]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8B117 Safari/6531.22.7)

glad you're enjoying yours too icaras!

I'm confident this was the right choice for my needs. and hey, if something fails I've got AppleCare, American express, and my homeowners insurance behind me. I should be ok :)

[dissolve]

it will tell you in the cpanel if it has done so, and nope... no reports of that so far.

Great, glad it keeps a note of that.

Do you or Icaras happen to have a power meter (such as a Kill-a-Watt) handy? I'd be interested to see the power draw a fully charged UPS adds on top of the system. All it's actively doing is trickle charging the battery, right?

[w00tini]

Great, glad it keeps a note of that.

Do you or Icaras happen to have a power meter (such as a Kill-a-Watt) handy? I'd be interested to see the power draw a fully charged UPS adds on top of the system. All it's actively doing is trickle charging the battery, right?
hi dissolve,
sorry i dont have a watt meter... maybe icaras does?

[Icaras]

Nah, sorry, unfortunately I don't have one to measure, and it doesn't say on the manual.

I'll tell you this though, after 2 hours of on-time, the unit is cool to the touch. The only area where it feels warm at all, is the top side of it, particular the back, top side, but it is ever so slightly. I have the 1350va model and am currently using only 30% so far, and every other side of the unit has absolutely no sign of heat.

Though for now, I just emailed CP and asked. So i'll post back once I get a reply.

[dissolve]

hi dissolve,
sorry i dont have a watt meter... maybe icaras does?

Nah, sorry, unfortunately I don't have one to measure, and it doesn't say on the manual.

I'll tell you this though, after 2 hours of on-time, the unit is cool to the touch. The only area where it feels warm at all, is the top side of it, particular the back, top side, but it is ever so slightly. I have the 1350va model and am currently using only 30% so far, and every other side of the unit has absolutely no sign of heat.

Though for now, I just emailed CP and asked. So i'll post back once I get a reply.

Thank you both for replying. Glad you seem to be enjoying your units...as much as a UPS can be ;)

I'm sure the power usage isn't significant. Just been reading from Cyberpower that they claim their Green UPS tech reduces power draw by 75% so I got curious. Of course, 75% means nothing without an initial value :rolleyes:

[dissolve]

I just sent an email to CyberPower about the GreenUPS response time to voltage fluctuations or complete drop. They told me it would take 4ms for the battery to kick in or a voltage sag / overvoltage to be corrected. I checked out APC's Line-R voltage regulation series to get a comparison. Their spec sheet gives a response time of <2 AC cycles. At 60Hz (unless my math is wrong) the CyberPower is about 10x faster in responding compared to the worst case for APC.

Now this is not for APC's full-fledge APC units. I'm only comparing to their Line-R as it was an alternative solution for me at one point. Of course, I'm new to the UPS arena, but this makes the CPxxxxPFCLCD much more promising for me. I've got a Kill-a-Watt on the way to get a good reading on my system load and also voltage fluctuations.

BTW, their response was very quick and friendly. It's nice to get a good customer service department :)

[Icaras]

I just sent an email to CyberPower about the GreenUPS response time to voltage fluctuations or complete drop. They told me it would take 4ms for the battery to kick in or a voltage sag / overvoltage to be corrected. I checked out APC's Line-R voltage regulation series to get a comparison. Their spec sheet gives a response time of <2 AC cycles. At 60Hz (unless my math is wrong) the CyberPower is about 10x faster in responding compared to the worst case for APC.

Now this is not for APC's full-fledge APC units. I'm only comparing to their Line-R as it was an alternative solution for me at one point. Of course, I'm new to the UPS arena, but this makes the CPxxxxPFCLCD much more promising for me. I've got a Kill-a-Watt on the way to get a good reading on my system load and also voltage fluctuations.

BTW, their response was very quick and friendly. It's nice to get a good customer service department :)

I wonder if you're right too. That seems super fast.

I also tested my machine over the weekend under Windows like w00t and achieved essentially the same results. No buzzing sounds either!

And to answer your question dissolve, CP also replied back to me with this response about power draw:

If the battery is low and needs to recharge, it will draw about 75W.
If the unit is fully charged, it uses about 5-8W.

[w00tini]

Great work fellas!

It seems that we have made a solid decision thus far. Please report back with those KillAWatt numbers Dissolve :D

[dissolve]

I wonder if you're right too. That seems super fast.

I also tested my machine over the weekend under Windows like w00t and achieved essentially the same results. No buzzing sounds either!

And to answer your question dissolve, CP also replied back to me with this response about power draw:

That's great news! Those numbers are very low...idle is basically negligible. Even charging is lower than I expected.

Great work fellas!

It seems that we have made a solid decision thus far. Please report back with those KillAWatt numbers Dissolve :D

It's really looking like it. Glad you two were our forum guinea pigs :D My Kill-a-Watt is due in tomorrow and once I get solid numbers for my MP power draw, I'll most likely go ahead and buy. I'm still keeping an eye on other refurb shops, but leaning towards the CP.

[tommyknockrs]

That's great news! Those numbers are very low...idle is basically negligible. Even charging is lower than I expected.



It's really looking like it. Glad you two were our forum guinea pigs :D My Kill-a-Watt is due in tomorrow and once I get solid numbers for my MP power draw, I'll most likely go ahead and buy. I'm still keeping an eye on other refurb shops, but leaning towards the CP.

Just to keep this thread alive, I was just wondering if anyone else has purchased the Cyperpower with adapted sine wave power and wondering if Dissolve has tested with the Kill-a-Watt and what the numbers were.

[w00tini]

still running like a champ on my end. no issues, no sound, no nada. i test it regularly and have had no issues.

[dissolve]

Just to keep this thread alive, I was just wondering if anyone else has purchased the Cyperpower with adapted sine wave power and wondering if Dissolve has tested with the Kill-a-Watt and what the numbers were.

I haven't bought it yet. I have the Kill-a-Watt and have figured out which model fits my usage. It'll be a couple weeks before I get serious about buying one, but I'll definitely post back in this thread if/when I do.

By the way, now that I have the Kill-a-Watt, I'm realizing it's going to be very difficult to figure out the extra power draw. Consumption fluctuates constantly and if the difference is as low as Icaras posted, I doubt I'll see much. Of course, charging will be a different story. Either way, I'll post back what I find.

[dissolve]

Great work fellas!

It seems that we have made a solid decision thus far. Please report back with those KillAWatt numbers Dissolve :D

Finally got mine! I went with the CP1000PFCLCD as my idle system comes in at under 200 watts. Haven't done any serious testing yet, but I'm impressed with this little guy. Much smaller than I expected!

Without anything pulling power from it, it comes in at around 4-6 watts. With roughly 180 watts of computer+peripherals plugged in, it seems to add about 20 watts on top of what it reports on the LCD. This obviously fluctuates a lot, but that's a pretty good average value.

I've only done one battery power test so far (just pulled the plug with everything running) and it responded well. No buzzing from the PSU (woo!!) and OS X recognized that the MP was on battery power. I didn't let it shut down but I presume it will with the appropriate settings...I'll test that later. I could certainly hear a little fan running after providing batter power, but it wasn't too audible and only lasted about one minute. The unit reported 7-8 minutes of run time, which is plenty as I have it set to shut down after only a minute. Surprisingly, it's not pulling much more power now that it needs to charge the battery. Seems to need about 30 watts (only 10 more than when it's full).

Going to continue some tests, but I think that sums up the power consumption aspect. Overall, a pretty small addition to your electricity bill, especially since that idle draw is so low. Thanks again Icarus, I think we've got a winner here for our purposes.

[PenguinMac]

I bought the CyberPower CP1000PFCLCD also, but my experience was quite different. My 6-core Mac Pro with an SSD and 4 WD Caviar Black 2TB worked with the CP1000PFCLCD for about 20 minutes, until I turned the Mac Pro off. When I turned it on again, the CP1000PFCLCD made an array of warning sounds and displayed a fault F02, Battery Output Short. The manual says to restart the UPS, but even after I did so it would not allow the Mac Pro to restart without entering this fault mode.

According to several sources, my Mac Pro could draw as much as 5 amps on starting, which would be 600 watts. While that should be within the range of the CP1000PFCLCD, it's certainly possible that it overloaded the UPS which will then commit electronic suicide to protect the attached devices. Anyway, I'm back to a large surge protector without battery backup while I decide whether to try the CP1500PFCLCD or wait for APC to come out with a similar product.

[philipma1957]

buy this from vanns.


http://search.vanns.com/sitesearch/search?q=apc+s15


the silver one is the same as the black one.

[Icaras]

Going to continue some tests, but I think that sums up the power consumption aspect. Overall, a pretty small addition to your electricity bill, especially since that idle draw is so low. Thanks again Icarus, I think we've got a winner here for our purposes.

Nice! Glad its working out so far. W00tini also definitely motivated me to try and research this more too. Actually, I probably wouldn't have looked into this unit more if he didn't point out the fuss going on at Newegg (don't really peruse there often).

I actually ended up selling my hex-core Mac Pro and I'm now on a new iMac quad i5 as of yesterday (needed less), but it would appear that iMacs also have PFC based PSUs (Energy Star 5.0 device). So I also ordered a new cp850pfclcd to go with it, in exchange for the 1350 I just had. I should be getting that by the end of the week, so I'm glad to hear you really like the smaller sized unit. :)

I bought the CyberPower CP1000PFCLCD also, but my experience was quite different. My 6-core Mac Pro with an SSD and 4 WD Caviar Black 2TB worked with the CP1000PFCLCD for about 20 minutes, until I turned the Mac Pro off. When I turned it on again, the CP1000PFCLCD made an array of warning sounds and displayed a fault F02, Battery Output Short. The manual says to restart the UPS, but even after I did so it would not allow the Mac Pro to restart without entering this fault mode.

According to several sources, my Mac Pro could draw as much as 5 amps on starting, which would be 600 watts. While that should be within the range of the CP1000PFCLCD, it's certainly possible that it overloaded the UPS which will then commit electronic suicide to protect the attached devices. Anyway, I'm back to a large surge protector without battery backup while I decide whether to try the CP1500PFCLCD or wait for APC to come out with a similar product.

I read about in rushes of power usage somewhere on the APC forums and I think that's where having a more head room for the watt capacity of the battery definitely helps. Just from the sound of your system (with 4 WD Caviar blacks), it sounds like a bit much for the 1000 model. I'm pretty sure a 1350, and definitely the 1500 will be able to handle whatever you throw at it.

I'm also very curious about APC and other competing manufacturers, and how they will react to CyberPower's PFC models.

Edit: Here you go. Just found the link to the APC thread about in rush current of Mac Pro startup: http://www.apc-forums.com/thread.jspa?messageID=13837

[dissolve]

Nice! Glad its working out so far. W00tini also definitely motivated me to try and research this more too. Actually, I probably wouldn't have looked into this unit more if he didn't point out the fuss going on at Newegg (don't really peruse there often).

I actually ended up selling my hex-core Mac Pro and I'm now on a new iMac quad i5 as of yesterday (needed less), but it would appear that iMacs also have PFC based PSUs (Energy Star 5.0 device). So I also ordered a new cp850pfclcd to go with it, in exchange for the 1350 I just had. I should be getting that by the end of the week, so I'm glad to hear you really like the smaller sized unit. :)

I extend my thanks to w00tini as well :)

That unit should serve well for the iMac. IIRC it pulls around 150 watts with the display on at idle. Let us know how it works out for you.

I bought the CyberPower CP1000PFCLCD also, but my experience was quite different. My 6-core Mac Pro with an SSD and 4 WD Caviar Black 2TB worked with the CP1000PFCLCD for about 20 minutes, until I turned the Mac Pro off. When I turned it on again, the CP1000PFCLCD made an array of warning sounds and displayed a fault F02, Battery Output Short. The manual says to restart the UPS, but even after I did so it would not allow the Mac Pro to restart without entering this fault mode.

According to several sources, my Mac Pro could draw as much as 5 amps on starting, which would be 600 watts. While that should be within the range of the CP1000PFCLCD, it's certainly possible that it overloaded the UPS which will then commit electronic suicide to protect the attached devices. Anyway, I'm back to a large surge protector without battery backup while I decide whether to try the CP1500PFCLCD or wait for APC to come out with a similar product.

Yeah the 1000PFCLCD is definitely not enough for your system. If you are seeing 600 watt start ups, you've already reached its limit. I'm surprised yours gets that high, but I guess the hex and those 4 HDDs really add a lot (I've never seen over 250 on my quad core). You should definitely look into a 1500VA unit as you suggested.

[w00tini]

glad you guys are enjoying the unit! just this AM we had a power outage. first one I can confirm. ran the hex Mac pro for two minutes and shut down as smooth as silk.

[dissolve]

I've got a question and, although it pertains to any UPS, I thought I'd post back here rather than start a new thread.

Under Energy Saver Preferences, I have it set to shut down after being on UPS battery for 1 minute. I wanted to make sure it has enough power to wake the MP and then shut it down so I pulled the plug while sleeping, but nothing happened after a minute passed. Is this expected behavior? I feel like there's something I'm missing.

This isn't too big an issue because the unit should get about 3 hours of battery life with only a sleeping MP plugged in, but I'm still curious. Any ideas?

[nanofrog]

I've got a question and, although it pertains to any UPS, I thought I'd post back here rather than start a new thread.

Under Energy Saver Preferences, I have it set to shut down after being on UPS battery for 1 minute. I wanted to make sure it has enough power to wake the MP and then shut it down so I pulled the plug while sleeping, but nothing happened after a minute passed. Is this expected behavior? I feel like there's something I'm missing.

This isn't too big an issue because the unit should get about 3 hours of battery life with only a sleeping MP plugged in, but I'm still curious. Any ideas?
Start simple; shut down the system, wait a bit, and restart it (be sure the settings you made actually take effect).

[dissolve]

Start simple; shut down the system, wait a bit, and restart it (be sure the settings you made actually take effect).

Thank you for the input. I had the settings checked when I first got the UPS so it's been through a few shutdowns and they appear to have remained. I just tried that test today and no luck. The only shutdown options I have chosen are to shutdown after a time limit so it shouldn't be defaulted to some other option.

[nanofrog]

Thank you for the input. I had the settings checked when I first got the UPS so it's been through a few shutdowns and they appear to have remained. I just tried that test today and no luck. The only shutdown options I have chosen are to shutdown after a time limit so it shouldn't be defaulted to some other option.
I presume you've checked that OS X recognizes the UPS (trying to think of quick and easy things to check that can cause such aggravation).

[dissolve]

I presume you've checked that OS X recognizes the UPS (trying to think of quick and easy things to check that can cause such aggravation).

Yes, OS X recognizes the UPS and a new pane appeared in Energy Saver Preferences. I've pulled the plug with the system running, OS X displayed an appropriate dialog box, and the UPS responded as well. I didn't let it shut down, so I'll check that soon. I just assumed that since OS X recognized it was on battery power, it would take the appropriate actions.

So am I correct in believing OS X should wake up the MP and shut it down after the allotted time?

[nanofrog]

Yes, OS X recognizes the UPS and a new pane appeared in Energy Saver Preferences. I've pulled the plug with the system running, OS X displayed an appropriate dialog box, and the UPS responded as well. I didn't let it shut down, so I'll check that soon. I just assumed that since OS X recognized it was on battery power, it would take the appropriate actions.

So am I correct in believing OS X should wake up the MP and shut it down after the allotted time?
It depends.

You'd need the USB ports set to Wake if there's any signal over the USB devices when in sleep mode (UPS will send one when it goes to the inverter, just like it would when tapping a key on the keyboard or mouse, assuming it's USB). Without this, the system won't respond, and thus not shut itself down.

This tends to get missed, as it's been past practice to leave the systems on (just use power management settings on the monitor; system stays fully active). This has been to allow for nightly maintenance runs, ... and in some cases, was a necessity for RAID as it tends not to sleep properly (card's firmware gets dumped, so you have to shut down and reboot to get it loaded again).

Please understand, I'm trying to keep this simple, so I've pieced this out instead of one post (wanted your response feed back as to what you did/didn't do).

[dissolve]

It depends.

You'd need the USB ports set to Wake if there's any signal over the USB devices when in sleep mode (UPS will send one when it goes to the inverter, just like it would when tapping a key on the keyboard or mouse, assuming it's USB). Without this, the system won't respond, and thus not shut itself down.

This tends to get missed, as it's been past practice to leave the systems on (just use power management settings on the monitor; system stays fully active). This has been to allow for nightly maintenance runs, ... and in some cases, was a necessity for RAID as it tends not to sleep properly (card's firmware gets dumped, so you have to shut down and reboot to get it loaded again).

Please understand, I'm trying to keep this simple, so I've pieced this out instead of one post (wanted your response feed back as to what you did/didn't do).

That's alright, I understand. Thank you for your input.

I've now tried it both the front and rear USB ports as well as with/without the "Start up automatically after power failure" box checked. No options seem to get it to wake and shut down. This isn't too big an issue, but I just wanted to be sure if this was normal for OS X or not.

[nanofrog]

That's alright, I understand. Thank you for your input.

I've now tried it both the front and rear USB ports as well as with/without the "Start up automatically after power failure" box checked. No options seem to get it to wake and shut down. This isn't too big an issue, but I just wanted to be sure if this was normal for OS X or not.
It does seem odd.

You might want to give Apple a call, and see what they have to say (figured it was in the settings from what you've posted). But there could be some issue with OS X itself (my usage is under Windows and Linux these days, as OS X fell short of my particular needs).

[dissolve]

It does seem odd.

You might want to give Apple a call, and see what they have to say (figured it was in the settings from what you've posted). But there could be some issue with OS X itself (my usage is under Windows and Linux these days, as OS X fell short of my particular needs).

I agree, especially since these USB ports certainly respond to keyboard input or even unplugging a device (which is often annoying, but oh well).

Afraid I'm out of phone service, but I'll ask the next time I'm in an Apple Store. Have any of you others noticed that the MP does/doesn't wake from sleep if suddenly sent to UPS power? Thanks for your input nanofrog.

[vogelhausdesign]

Sorry to derail the conversation, but is it still a better choice to go with pure sine-wave? The adaptive sine wave technology is making me weary, and has APC come out with something similar?

From the people that own these units, how are they so far? Why is it 1500VA and only 900W, shouldnt it be 1440/980?

[Icaras]

Sorry to derail the conversation, but is it still a better choice to go with pure sine-wave? The adaptive sine wave technology is making me weary, and has APC come out with something similar?

From the people that own these units, how are they so far? Why is it 1500VA and only 900W, shouldnt it be 1440/980?

No, it doesn't seem APC has come out with something similar yet. Could be patented by CP?

Anyway, I'm getting my new 850VA for my iMac today but I was personally pleased of my prior 1350VA unit when I had my Mac Pro.

Obviously this stuff is new and like any new, unproven tech, we should be wary. But really, all I can do is point you to some very early and positive customer reviews:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842102133&Tpk=cp1350pfclcd

http://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-Adaptive-Intelligent-CP1500PFCLCD-Uninterrupted/dp/B00429N19W/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1291661495&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-Adaptive-Intelligent-CP1000PFCLCD-Uninterrupted/dp/B00429N192/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1291661495&sr=8-2

http://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-Adaptive-Intelligent-CP1350PFCLCD-Uninterrupted/dp/B00429N19M/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1291661495&sr=8-3

That said, I have yet to come across any negative press on CyberPower or their new adaptive PFC technology.

I'm just a customer myself, doing research, listening to what other people have to say, and learning as I go along, but so far, no problems and satisfied. Take that as you will :)

[vogelhausdesign]

^ I'm worried about boot overload with my 12-Core on a UPS @ 900W or less, anyone running anything similar to me; 12-Core 2.93, 4HDD+1SSD 1Tb External, 30" ACD and 280W 2.1 Speakers thats on one of these new cyber power active PFC units?

[Icaras]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

Also, I'm sure it's still better to go with a pure sine wave unit, but I couldn't justify the cost difference for brand new units.

But that doesn't worry me. CyberPower, like any other UPS manufacturer, are supposed to cover for any damaged equipment anyway. So why not?

[Icaras]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

Curious to see if anyone with a machine like yours has these PFC units as well.

[nanofrog]

I agree, especially since these USB ports certainly respond to keyboard input or even unplugging a device (which is often annoying, but oh well).

Afraid I'm out of phone service, but I'll ask the next time I'm in an Apple Store. Have any of you others noticed that the MP does/doesn't wake from sleep if suddenly sent to UPS power? Thanks for your input nanofrog.
I wasn't sure if you still had phone support or not.

But there's still other things you can try (involves testing with different OS's, another system <PC>, and APC's PowerChute for OS X).

If you're interested in trying these ideas, let me know, and I'll take you through it. :)

BTW, for the moment, I'm basing it on statistics that it's a software problem rather than the UPS (could be some odd bit with the MP's hardware due to the EFI firmware, which is one of the reasons for trying your UPS out with a PC - speed/convenience is another).

Sorry to derail the conversation, but is it still a better choice to go with pure sine-wave? The adaptive sine wave technology is making me weary, and has APC come out with something similar?
Between the two designs, Pure Sine is the better way to go. For new units, it's more expensive.

But you can get a refurbished 1500VA unit for the same money ($250USD mark) as a new CyberPower PFC unit (1500VA), so I'd go that route. ;) :D

It's one of those rare instances you get to "Have your cake and eat it too" scenarios. :eek: :D :p

From the people that own these units, how are they so far? Why is it 1500VA and only 900W, shouldnt it be 1440/980?
It has to do with the inverter design; it's not as efficient as what's used in pure sine wave designs. Hence under near or at 900W for stepped/PWM controlled vs. 980W for a Pure Sine wave inverter.

Also, I'm sure it's still better to go with a pure sine wave unit, but I couldn't justify the cost difference for brand new units.
See above. ;)

BTW, I recall an article by APC that indicates they've re-designed the BackUPS systems to run with PFC based PSU's (might be worth searching their site). But I'd have thought they'd create new P/N's to distinguish those that do from previous units that don't.

Curious to see if anyone with a machine like yours has these PFC units as well.
There's a couple of MR users running them (posted in MR somewhere), but I can't recall the exact systems used.

[dissolve]

I wasn't sure if you still had phone support or not.

But there's still other things you can try (involves testing with different OS's, another system <PC>, and APC's PowerChute for OS X).

If you're interested in trying these ideas, let me know, and I'll take you through it. :)

BTW, for the moment, I'm basing it on statistics that it's a software problem rather than the UPS (could be some odd bit with the MP's hardware due to the EFI firmware, which is one of the reasons for trying your UPS out with a PC - speed/convenience is another).

Thanks for the suggestions. I haven't tried any yet, but I did read through APC's manual for the PowerChute software. It mentions that some models may not wake from sleep and, like you mentioned, they recommend disabling sleep for those models. So, perhaps, it's the USB hardware on the MP itself instead of an OS issue?

I don't have a separate PC to use, but I could try it under Bootcamp to confirm it's a hardware issue. I'm still not too concerned as there are very few situations that I leave the MP sleeping for longer than the battery would keep it up. But this is certainly an interesting finding.

[nanofrog]

Thanks for the suggestions. I haven't tried any yet, but I did read through APC's manual for the PowerChute software. It mentions that some models may not wake from sleep and, like you mentioned, they recommend disabling sleep for those models. So, perhaps, it's the USB hardware on the MP itself instead of an OS issue?

I don't have a separate PC to use, but I could try it under Bootcamp to confirm it's a hardware issue. I'm still not too concerned as there are very few situations that I leave the MP sleeping for longer than the battery would keep it up. But this is certainly an interesting finding.
I'm not sure if it's OS X, or the EFI firmware that causes the signal to be ignored, but I suspect it's one or the other, not a bad UPS (USB port works as it should, so the signal is getting sent).

That's why I mentioned what I did (can let you narrow it down). The PC's primary purpose is to see if your UPS sends a signal to wake the system and activate the timer to shutdown (BIOS instead of EFI). The one hardware test that you'd want to try in order to give you a definitive answer as to the UPS having a good USB port or not.

But using other OS's on the MP is possible (but it won't be able to get around EFI if that's the problem rather than OS X).

Worst case, you'll have to disable system sleep, and only use it for the monitor. Not the ideal way to go in terms of conserving power, but your system will be protected (assuming the USB port in the UPS is good, which I suspect it is).

[dissolve]

I'm not sure if it's OS X, or the EFI firmware that causes the signal to be ignored, but I suspect it's one or the other, not a bad UPS (USB port works as it should, so the signal is getting sent).

That's why I mentioned what I did (can let you narrow it down). The PC's primary purpose is to see if your UPS sends a signal to wake the system and activate the timer to shutdown (BIOS instead of EFI). The one hardware test that you'd want to try in order to give you a definitive answer as to the UPS having a good USB port or not.

But using other OS's on the MP is possible (but it won't be able to get around EFI if that's the problem rather than OS X).

Worst case, you'll have to disable system sleep, and only use it for the monitor. Not the ideal way to go in terms of conserving power, but your system will be protected (assuming the USB port in the UPS is good, which I suspect it is).

Ok good points. I'll try to do some of those tests down the road to get it figured out.

A long series of unfortunate circumstances would have to ensue for this to be any sort of problem. As it's become clear in this thread, I'm not a professional and that very slight risk is ok with me. As Icaras mentioned, these products have a warranty attached in case of any damage and I suspect it'd be covered if this sleep issue led to a serious problem.

[nanofrog]

Ok good points. I'll try to do some of those tests down the road to get it figured out.

A long series of unfortunate circumstances would have to ensue for this to be any sort of problem. As it's become clear in this thread, I'm not a professional and that very slight risk is ok with me. As Icaras mentioned, these products have a warranty attached in case of any damage and I suspect it'd be covered if this sleep issue led to a serious problem.
Just so you're aware, those warranties only cover hardware, not data (won't pay for data recovery services if required in cases where a backup doesn't exist or was damaged as well).

[dissolve]

Just so you're aware, those warranties only cover hardware, not data (won't pay for data recovery services if required in cases where a backup doesn't exist or was damaged as well).

Ah yes, of course :)

I believe I have a decent backup solution, so I was only referring to hardware damage. But thank you for the heads up.

[Icaras]

Between the two designs, Pure Sine is the better way to go. For new units, it's more expensive.

But you can get a refurbished 1500VA unit for the same money ($250USD mark) as a new CyberPower PFC unit (1500VA), so I'd go that route. ;) :D

It's one of those rare instances you get to "Have your cake and eat it too" scenarios. :eek: :D :p

See above. ;)

Well I just got my new CP850PFCLCD today and it's all hooked up, and I must say, I really much prefer this over a pure sine wave unit.

We've had this discussion before, but as I've said before on the other UPS thread, this thing is dead silent ( I can't reiterate this enough. I hear absolutely nothing.), it has minimal power draw, is incredibly light weight (15 lbs only), is incredibly compact, and is 3 times cheaper (comparing new to new. Got this unit for $115.99 final price at JR.com.). For me, this is everything a pure sine wave unit is not, and I really find great value in these qualities, which tend to be overlooked when shopping around for a UPS. But again, my demands are not mission critical and not paid by the minute, so of course I speak only for myself and those in similar situations.

And if it craps my equipment out, then I know I'm covered. As for data recovery, I've also got my Time Machine backup, so I'm good to go.

If things go south, I'll eat my words and report back here, but then again I'm using an iMac now. Though, I hope others here will continue to chime in on their Mac Pro experiences with the CP units, good or bad.

I'm simply going to by good word of mouth and an increasingly positive user experience, as evidenced by the retailers I've link above in a previous post. And unless I see cold hard evidence from tech sites, or negative user reviews saying this thing is blowing up their machines, then I really don't see why a pure sine wave unit is going to benefit some users, other than having complete and utter piece of mind. But that said, I'd be lying too if I said I didn't feel safe or I didn't trust the CP unit. So far, it works perfectly, and as advertised. And that's good enough for me.

[nanofrog]

Well I just got my new CP850PFCLCD today and it's all hooked up, and I must say, I really much prefer this over a pure sine wave unit.

We've had this discussion before, but as I've said before on the other UPS thread, this thing is dead silent ( I can't reiterate this enough. I hear absolutely nothing.), it has minimal power draw, is incredibly light weight (15 lbs only), is incredibly compact, and is 3 times cheaper (comparing new to new. Got this unit for $115.99 final price at JR.com.). For me, this is everything a pure sine wave unit is not, and I really find great value in these qualities, which tend to be overlooked when shopping around for a UPS. But again, my demands are not mission critical and not paid by the minute, so of course I speak only for myself and those in similar situations.

And if it craps my equipment out, then I know I'm covered. As for data recovery, I've also got my Time Machine backup, so I'm good to go.

If things go south, I'll eat my words and report back here, but then again I'm using an iMac now. Though, I hope others here will continue to chime in on their Mac Pro experiences with the CP units, good or bad.

I'm simply going to by good word of mouth and an increasingly positive user experience, as evidenced by the retailers I've link above in a previous post. And unless I see cold hard evidence from tech sites, or negative user reviews saying this thing is blowing up their machines, then I really don't see why a pure sine wave unit is going to benefit some users, other than having complete and utter piece of mind. But that said, I'd be lying too if I said I didn't feel safe or I didn't trust the CP unit. So far, it works perfectly, and as advertised. And that's good enough for me.
For Line Interactive units, they run off of the wall most of the time (only go to the battery and inverter when the wall voltage dips beneath it's minumum threshold, usually ~90VAC). Remember, Pure Sine wave units such as the SUA1500 or SMT1500 (or others in the same series), are Line Interactive units. Only the inverter is different (pure sine wave vs. stepped/PWM controlled). Otherwise, they're based on the same principle (battery + inverter only kick in when needed).

It's Online/Double Conversion that runs the inverter all of the time, regardless of the wall conditions (no switching between battery + inverter and wall at all). Which means the fan/s are usually running all of the time.

[ActionableMango]

We've had this discussion before, but as I've said before on the other UPS thread, this thing is dead silent ( I can't reiterate this enough. I hear absolutely nothing.), it has minimal power draw, is incredibly light weight (15 lbs only), is incredibly compact.

I don't understand how it can be so much smaller and lighter. Aren't those characteristics of the battery capacity and not the technology used?

[dissolve]

I don't understand how it can be so much smaller and lighter. Aren't those characteristics of the battery capacity and not the technology used?

That's a good question and I'm not sure. But the APC SUA1500VA is twice the weight of the CP1500PFCLCD (53lbs (http://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=SUA1500&tab=models) vs 24.7lbs (http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products/ups-systems/intelligent-lcd-ups/CP1500PFCLCD.html?selectedTabId=specifications&imageI=#tab-box)). Granted, these things should rarely be moved, but it's an interesting comparison. I have no clue why the difference is so drastic between units with the same capacity.

[Icaras]

Battery capacity does affect size, but it seems the technology does actually affect both size and weight more dramatically. As observed, line interactive units are much smaller and lighter in comparison. Pure sine wave units in contrast are massive and like Dissolve says, weigh much more. I've always wondered why myself.

[nanofrog]

That's a good question and I'm not sure. But the APC SUA1500VA is twice the weight of the CP1500PFCLCD (53lbs (http://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=SUA1500&tab=models) vs 24.7lbs (http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products/ups-systems/intelligent-lcd-ups/CP1500PFCLCD.html?selectedTabId=specifications&imageI=#tab-box)). Granted, these things should rarely be moved, but it's an interesting comparison. I have no clue why the difference is so drastic between units with the same capacity.
A bit of it could be batteries, but it's mostly due to the transformer (AVR feature) that pulls up/down the AC wall voltage in the event it's out of spec, but not enough to kick the battery + inverter on (when AC = low). The heatsink/cooling methods used for the different inverter types can also affect weight.

Keep in mind, these are different brands. Unfortunately, transformers being underspecced for the duty does happen in electronics manufacturing as a means of cutting costs.

[Icaras]

Keep in mind, these are different brands. Unfortunately, transformers being underspecced for the duty does happen in electronics manufacturing as a means of cutting costs.

But even APC's own Back-UPS series are smaller and much more light weight (around 25lbs), as compared to the SMT1500/SUA1500 (50lbs+).

[nanofrog]

But even APC's own Back-UPS series are smaller and much more light weight (around 25lbs), as compared to the SMT1500/SUA1500 (50lbs+).
I realize that.

It has to do with the Duty Cycle that they design it around. Shorten the duty cycle, and the transformer gets smaller (time they expect the the transformer will be active). It otherwise bypasses the AVR transformer.

[AndOranges]

Anyway, here's a link to the 1KW UPS which would provide 2x the power capacity of the WC condition. This is probably a bit overkill and the 700W unit would likely be totally sufficient even for a 500W WC load.

http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products/ups-systems/smart-app-ups/pp-series/PP1500SWT2.html

Note: Provantage sells this unit for $273 + shipping which is ~$33 to Az.

Do not buy this. I made the mistake of doing so. It does not support Mac OS:

Unfortunately, the PP series would not be able to be used with the
Energy Saver for the Mac.

Thanks,
Jeff Peterson
Tech Support
CyberPower Systems

Now I have to return it and I'm buying one of the few remaining SUA1500's to avoid the fan noise problems of the SMT1500's. :mad:

[MSM Hobbes]

Do not buy this. I made the mistake of doing so. It does not support Mac OS:

Now I have to return it and I'm buying one of the few remaining SUA1500's to avoid the fan noise problems of the SMT1500's. :mad:

Fast questions... (a) is it only the PP models of CP that have the "true sine wave", and (b) for us :apple:-users, what other considerations are there with CP and/or other brands? [will be powering a 24" iMac + 2 external HD's with one, and future MP + monitor with another (computers located in different rooms)].

[AndOranges]

Now I have to return it and I'm buying one of the few remaining SUA1500's to avoid the fan noise problems of the SMT1500's. :mad:
I was unable to find a SUA1500 so I rolled the dice and bought a SMT1500. Looks like APC fixed the fan noise problem and it works seamlessly with Mac OS. I'm happy with it.

[Icaras]

Just a heads up on another note-worthy review for the adaptive PFC series by CyberPower. Tom's Hardware actually did a pretty thorough run-down comparison just last November, between the CP1500PFCLCD and other popular enterprise class units such as the APC SMT1500 and ended up giving the CyberPower their "2010 recommended buy". Please note however, this was a comparison for best value in the enthusiast market.

A scant runtime is this model’s biggest downfall compared to enterprise-class rivals, yet enthusiasts are also more likely to finish their tasks within the several minutes of full-load power the unit provides. We told every manufacturer that this article would be a value UPS shootout for the enthusiast PC market, and that’s exactly where the CP1500PFCLCD excels.

Here's the link to the article:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/apc-smt1500-cyberpower-cp1500pfclcd-tripp-lite-smart1500slt,2785.html

[nanofrog]

Just a heads up on another note-worthy review for the adaptive PFC series by CyberPower. Tom's Hardware actually did a pretty thorough run-down comparison just last November, between the CP1500PFCLCD and other popular enterprise class units such as the APC SMT1500 and ended up giving the CyberPower their "2010 recommended buy". Please note however, this was a comparison for best value in the enthusiast market.
Thanks for the link. :)

If only looking at new, the lower cost of the CyberPower unit will look attractive (agree why they rated it as they did due to the cost/performance ratio), but when you consider the refurbished market, it falls flat. Better units (enterprise grade) and longer run times for around the same money (at least here in the US; not so sure about other markets).

[MSM Hobbes]

Thanks for the link. :)

If only looking at new, the lower cost of the CyberPower unit will look attractive (agree why they rated it as they did due to the cost/performance ratio), but when you consider the refurbished market, it falls flat. Better units (enterprise grade) and longer run times for around the same money (at least here in the US; not so sure about other markets).

What units would these be? I'm looking for long-lasting quality UPS, so if a refurb or enterprise grade are available that would beat CyberPower, be great to hear... thanks.

[nanofrog]

What units would these be? I'm looking for long-lasting quality UPS, so if a refurb or enterprise grade are available that would beat CyberPower, be great to hear... thanks.
APC's are the most common, and come in different sizes and types.

For example, Pure Sinewave Line Interactive:
SUA1500 (http://excessups.com/smartups-1500-sua1500-p-38.html)
SMT1500 (http://www.upsforless.com/apcsmt1500ref.aspx)

There are others however, and even different brands (currently available models in APC's SmartUPS line from upsforless.com (http://www.upsforless.com/apcsmartupstower-1.aspx) - good company to deal with).

Online/Double Conversion types (always runs off of the inverter - pure sine wave output):
SUA1500XL
SURTA1500XL

Others too, such as rack mount versions (example is SURTA1500RMXL) if you're willing to keep your options a little broader. Also Tripp Lite and Eaton make good units, but the batteries tend to cost more (why APC is preferred in the refurbished market).

Just keep looking, as these are harder to find.

[brentsg]

Are these refurb APC pure sine units considerably louder than this CyberPower model? Anyone have experience with both?

[Icaras]

Are these refurb APC pure sine units considerably louder than this CyberPower model? Anyone have experience with both?

I don't need experience to tell you that YES, APC pure sine wave units will be louder than these CP models, as evidenced by repeated forum discussions across the net.

How louder? That I can't say, but I know that my CP unit doesn't dare make a peep until the battery kicks in, which is very modest to say the least.

Both heat and noise were a very important issue when deciding between the CP units and pure sine wave units and I'm very happy that these don't' make a sound. Been several months now that I've had this and I'm still happy about the purchase. :)

[nanofrog]

Are these refurb APC pure sine units considerably louder than this CyberPower model? Anyone have experience with both?
Pure sine wave inverters produce more heat, so they need greater airflow to keep them cool (tend to use larger fans than stepped units, so lower rpm can move as much or more air). But even stepped units get loud, as the fans tend to be smaller (small fans at high rpm tend to be quite noticeable). Either way, there's noise. Personally, I find the stepped inverter units louder, but that may just be me.

Now how often you'll have to deal with this (whatever the dB level of the unit is), will depend on the type of unit. Pure Sine wave inverters are used in both Line Interactive (switches to the battery + inverter when needed; they're not used otherwise = no fan running) or Online/Double Conversion (always runs off of the inverter and batteries).

The load can matter as well, as the fans may run on a profile (speed ramps up or down, depending on the inverter's temp) rather than just on or off (what the original SMT series firmware did).

I don't need experience to tell you that YES, APC pure sine wave units will be louder than these CP models, as evidenced by repeated forum discussions across the net.
You have to pay attention to the type (see above).

Now there have been complaints on the SMT1500 (or others in that series), but APC's released a firmware update to take care of that (changed from on/off to a profile). It's a Line Interactive unit, so the inverter only runs when the wall voltage has dipped below what the stepped transformer can deal with or gone to zero. Most of the time, the system is powered off of the wall, not the inverter, so the fan's not running.

Online/Double Conversion units do run all the time, as the inverter is always active (it may shut off, but only if the load is very low, such as a router or ISP modem). The larger fans help though for tower based units. Rackmounts OTOH, aren't meant for quiet environments such as an office or home to begin with (expected to be stored in an equipment room full of racks and the necessary sound proofing and ventilation systems).

The CP unit is also a Line Interactive unit, so the same thing that unit does, the APC or other brands of the same type (Line Interactive, ...) will react the same way (fan will only kick in when the inverter goes active).

[DanielCoffey]

Something to be aware of when you are using any UPS is that for the vast majority of the time when power from the wall socket is "normal", most models will be very quiet indeed. My APC SMT1000I sits there quietly making the occasional faint little clicking noise to itself (which you have to listen for in a quiet room). Yes, when charging, on load or testing the battery, I am sure all models will be much louder but those will be the exception to the normal quiet operation for any UPS.

[ActionableMango]

I don't need experience to tell you that YES, APC pure sine wave units will be louder than these CP models, as evidenced by repeated forum discussions across the net.

My APC pure sinewave unit is silent unless it's running on battery.

[philipma1957]

My APC pure sinewave unit is silent unless it's running on battery.

mine are also dead silent until a blackout.

I then power the pro down safely.

[Icaras]

I stand corrected then. I had forgotten about the firmware update that APC had released.

As i recall, they were previously many complaints about the fan noise, but glad to know these run silent now :)

[Riot Nrrrd]

So ... I've read the entire thread, and am wondering ... is this a viable unit for our power-gobbling Mac Pros or not? Is the jury still out? Dell's Small Business Unit just ran out of them, but before they did they were selling them for US $169.99 - quite the bargain compared to APC's $450 (roughly) units. :eek:

[nanofrog]

So ... I've read the entire thread, and am wondering ... is this a viable unit for our power-gobbling Mac Pros or not? Is the jury still out? Dell's Small Business Unit just ran out of them, but before they did they were selling them for US $169.99 - quite the bargain compared to APC's $450 (roughly) units. :eek:
I'd say the jury's still out.

I don't have an issue with the concept (PWM controlled inverter), but my hesitancy is based on experience with other units made by CyberPower, which were junk.

BTW, check the other thread you've posted in for some alternative ideas (more on the thinking as per which unit to go for from what's currently available to you).

[Tom Sawyer]

I'd say the jury's still out.

I don't have an issue with the concept (PWM controlled inverter), but my hesitancy is based on experience with other units made by CyberPower, which were junk.

BTW, check the other thread you've posted in for some alternative ideas (more on the thinking as per which unit to go for from what's currently available to you).

I hate to say it, but I've had the same experience at work with CyberPower units. We gave up on getting cheap units and have stuck with SmartUPS. You can get some very nice deals on refurbs at refurbups.com (I've bought several units from them as well as batteries). I've been 'into' UPS's for many years (I know, I know)... I bought up a number of old Powerware Prestige units... talk about an amazing UPS. They are pure Sine...and fully ONLINE ups, no switching latency etc. Amazing build quality. But, they are old, fairly noisy idle and generally not USB. I still have several deployed with new batteries, still great units.

Anyway, on the CP unit, hopefully the quality is much higher on this Pure Sinewave unit. Makes sense that it would be.

[nanofrog]

I hate to say it, but I've had the same experience at work with CyberPower units. We gave up on getting cheap units and have stuck with SmartUPS. You can get some very nice deals on refurbs at refurbups.com (I've bought several units from them as well as batteries). I've been 'into' UPS's for many years (I know, I know)... I bought up a number of old Powerware Prestige units... talk about an amazing UPS. They are pure Sine...and fully ONLINE ups, no switching latency etc. Amazing build quality. But, they are old, fairly noisy idle and generally not USB. I still have several deployed with new batteries, still great units.

Anyway, on the CP unit, hopefully the quality is much higher on this Pure Sinewave unit. Makes sense that it would be.
The model in question doesn't use a sine wave inverter (not tried CP's sine inverters either based on the stepped unit build quality , and I can get refurbished units from better known companies such as APC, TrippLite, and Eaton that have a history and I know work).

So I've opted to skip out on CP's other lines so far (not willing to risk data loss due to a questionable UPS).

[Tom Sawyer]

The model in question doesn't use a sine wave inverter (not tried CP's sine inverters either based on the stepped unit build quality , and I can get refurbished units from better known companies such as APC, TrippLite, and Eaton that have a history and I know work).

So I've opted to skip out on CP's other lines so far (not willing to risk data loss due to a questionable UPS).

So true, hard to justify the risk when we can get SmartUPS 750's for $110 and 1000's for $149 or even less.

[Riot Nrrrd]

So true, hard to justify the risk when we can get SmartUPS 750's for $110 and 1000's for $149 or even less.

... except that neither of those are suitable for use with Mac Pros ... ;)

[Riot Nrrrd]

... for only US $315.17 (including slow boat shipping):

APC Smart-UPS SMT1500 SMT1500 External UPS - AC 120V (http://cgi.ebay.com/APC-Smart-UPS-SMT1500-SMT1500-External-UPS-AC-120V-/390309416459)

Down to 3 left, better get in on it fast ;)

[Tom Sawyer]

... for only US $315.17 (including slow boat shipping):

APC Smart-UPS SMT1500 SMT1500 External UPS - AC 120V (http://cgi.ebay.com/APC-Smart-UPS-SMT1500-SMT1500-External-UPS-AC-120V-/390309416459)

Down to 3 left, better get in on it fast ;)

Thanks for the heads up! As a side note, they have them on their web site too, and the shipping calculated at $14 less than the eBay shipping price (for my location).

I'm ordering one from their web site. I've wanted a pure-sine SmartUPS for my MP since I got it and that's a great price. 1.5 KVA ought to be enough! :D

Will report back on how the transaction goes. $301.79 shipped.

[Ravich]

My refurbished APC unit from excessups.com is performing wonderfully. 250$ for a 1500VA TLV unit

[Tom Sawyer]

My refurbished APC unit from excessups.com is performing wonderfully. 250$ for a 1500VA TLV unit

That's awesome, can't beat the price!! I'm looking forward to getting the unit. I've read that older firmware revisions tend to have loud fans but APC will provide customers with a firmware update that resolves the issue.

[Ravich]

For me the fan has never started up unless it is running off of battery power. It's completely silent otherwise.

[Tom Sawyer]

For me the fan has never started up unless it is running off of battery power. It's completely silent otherwise.

B-E-A-utiful... thanks for the feedback! :)

[Ravich]

By the way, I dont know if you've ordered yet, but what I did was place the order in my cart, and upon seeing the 60$ shipping charge I held off. They sent me an email a couple of days later inquiring as to why I didnt follow through with the purchase. When I explained it was the shipping cost, they offered me free shipping.

[Tom Sawyer]

By the way, I dont know if you've ordered yet, but what I did was place the order in my cart, and upon seeing the 60$ shipping charge I held off. They sent me an email a couple of days later inquiring as to why I didnt follow through with the purchase. When I explained it was the shipping cost, they offered me free shipping.

No doubt?!? Well, I did already place the order, but the shipping was pretty reasonable at $24.

[doxavita]

Thinking of buying a CP1500PFCLCD. Do 2011 27" iMacs use Active PFC power supplies?

[DanielCoffey]

The new iMacs do, yes.

[Tom Sawyer]

Received my SMT1500 today, works like a champ and in beautiful condition. No fan noise at all once I did a factory reset, full charge and then a self test. I'm quite pleased. Naturally it produces perfect sine wave power as advertised, my MP makes not a chirp when on UPS power, couldn't be happier.

Great price for a serious UPS; I think the thing weighs as much as my MP!!. My MP+LCD+Speakers pull 21% load at idle.

[Tom Sawyer]

Quick Update: My SMT1500 started producing the loud fan cycle noise as reported elsewhere, but a simple support request at APC got an email with the firmware update. Unfortunately my unit being a refurb, it did not come with any cables but APC was nice enough to send me the necessary serial cable. Of course with my MP not having a serial port I had to use a PC to flash (hyperterminal, 9600baud, xmodem.. blast from the past there!) but all is well, quiet as a mouse.

The display is really nice. Switching it into advanced mode causes it to cycle the screen through lots of different info like I/O, Load in Watts and VA, battery time, etc.

At idle (245W draw), it reports it can power my setup for 1hr.