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panphage
Jan 14, 2005, 01:16 AM
By installing your own RAM: http://www.tuaw.com/entry/1234000917027372/

Or HDD, or optical drive.

The source: The Mac Mini product manager (whatever that is, sounds official.)

Oh, and I was wrong elsewhere about the bluetooth and airport, if you get them later, you DO have to buy the kit because they need special connectors to hook directly to the mobo.

slipper
Jan 14, 2005, 01:21 AM
i dont know how reliable this is and i would consult with an apple certified technicial first. However, if its true, that would be great considering the Mac Mini has a mediocre 4200rpm 2.5" HDD.

SiliconAddict
Jan 14, 2005, 01:39 AM
All I want to know is what size HD do they use. It can't be a standard desktop drive which means the # of high cap 7400 RPM drives is going to limited.

I still think this sounds fishy. If they wanted it to be easily accessable by the user they would have made the shell more user friendly. As it stand it looks like its heald together the same way the PowerBook is - with clips.

panphage
Jan 14, 2005, 01:41 AM
Laurie Duncan is the owner and godess of http://www.cubeowner.com. If she isn't reliable we can't rely on the sun to rise tomorrow. Trust me, she's not making it up. AND she's an Apple Certified Technician. Or an apple authorized service provider. Or something like that, I forget which one it is.

virividox
Jan 14, 2005, 01:52 AM
well good to know that adding ram doesnt void the warranty, allows you do do things cheaper thankfully

panphage
Jan 14, 2005, 01:55 AM
All I want to know is what size HD do they use. It can't be a standard desktop drive which means the # of high cap 7400 RPM drives is going to limited.

I still think this sounds fishy. If they wanted it to be easily accessable by the user they would have made the shell more user friendly. As it stand it looks like its heald together the same way the PowerBook is - with clips.

It's a 2.5 Someone (I forgot where, but I saw the screenshot) was at the show and got a screenshot of the system profiler with the HDD part # on it. It's a 2.5, 4200rpm

Abstract
Jan 14, 2005, 02:12 AM
Laurie Duncan is the owner and godess of http://www.cubeowner.com. If she isn't reliable we can't rely on the sun to rise tomorrow. Trust me, she's not making it up. AND she's an Apple Certified Technician. Or an apple authorized service provider. Or something like that, I forget which one it is.

No offence, but that doesn't appease me in any way. :p

I'd still rather have them install it, especially if the top cap was much too difficult to remove. I'd say the same thing if I owned an iPod Mini and I found some way of getting a 3rd party battery and installing it myself.....I wouldn't even know where to start.

If someone finds a very simple way to install RAM in a Mac Mini, then great, but even the methods described as "simple" for some seem difficult. Anyone ever read sites that discussed ways of "easily" changing/painting the colour of your iBook? ;)

SiliconAddict
Jan 14, 2005, 11:51 AM
It's a 2.5 Someone (I forgot where, but I saw the screenshot) was at the show and got a screenshot of the system profiler with the HDD part # on it. It's a 2.5, 4200rpm

Woah. That's going to be the first thing I upgrade. A 4200RPM drive is going to kill performance. But at least itís a 2.5Ē drive. It leaves some OPTIONS (http://www.seagate.com/cda/products/discsales/marketing/detail/0,1081,635,00.html) :D :D

Thanks for the info.

johnpg
Jan 14, 2005, 12:17 PM
Woah. That's going to be the first thing I upgrade. A 4200RPM drive is going to kill performance. But at least itís a 2.5Ē drive. It leaves some OPTIONS (http://www.seagate.com/cda/products/discsales/marketing/detail/0,1081,635,00.html) :D :D

Thanks for the info.

Keep in mind that the last rev of the Powerbooks has 4200rpm drives. I suspect this will perform darn close to a 1.25ghz Powerbook. That's my main machine that I use for everything and it serves me well. I think the Mini's will be fine performers for their price.

John

7on
Jan 14, 2005, 12:19 PM
4200RPM drives don't "kill" performance. Just makes reading/writing a bit slower. And 60GB 7200RPM drives run close to $200 or so.

P.S. my 1Ghz TiBook has a 4200RPM drive and that hasn't slowed me down much at all.

Daveway
Jan 14, 2005, 12:23 PM
I thought Apple would have used the larger drives considering they are cheaper.

wordmunger
Jan 14, 2005, 12:26 PM
This apple support document (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=300572) indicates that memory "should" be upgraded by an apple-authorized service provider.

The specs page on Apple.com says upgrades "must" be done by an apple-authorized service provider.

Sun Baked
Jan 14, 2005, 12:31 PM
When the stuff shows up here as a Customer Installable Part...

http://www.info.apple.com/usen/cip/

Then you'll know it won't void your warranty.

Otherwise, what will you say when Apple voids the warranty for adding memory when it breaks?

"I read it on MacRumors."

Rower_CPU
Jan 14, 2005, 12:33 PM
It's not official until it's listed on Apple's Customer Installable Parts list (http://www.info.apple.com/usen/cip/) - it usually takes them a few days from the release of a new product to post the info.

edit - Jinx, Sun Baked. :p

bousozoku
Jan 14, 2005, 12:38 PM
Woah. That's going to be the first thing I upgrade. A 4200RPM drive is going to kill performance. But at least itís a 2.5Ē drive. It leaves some OPTIONS (http://www.seagate.com/cda/products/discsales/marketing/detail/0,1081,635,00.html) :D :D

Thanks for the info.

It's an iBook in a different box. What do you expect?

It should not be awful, just right for the price. :) I'm glad they have decent processors in it and, with Motorola's latest pin-compatible E600 series, they should go much further.

Peyote
Jan 14, 2005, 12:42 PM
A few interesting notes from the Apple kbase docs on Mac Mini:


Mac mini comes with a DVI to VGA converter

You can position the Mac mini on it's side vertically, but not on it's front because it blocks the CD slot, and not on its back because it blocks the ports. However if you mounted it to a wall with plenty of space around the front and back, I don't see how this would be a problem. I wonder how the heat inside the case would be effected if it was mounted verically with the cd slot facing up.

Mac mini can use PC3200 RAM, but only at PC2700 speed.

Stacking Mac minis can block the airport and/or BT signals.

Do not stare directly at Mac mini.
Do not taunt Mac mini.
Do not use Mac mini on concrete.
If Mac mini begins to smoke, back away quickly, crouch, and cover head.
Mac mini is made of an unknown substance that fell to eath from space.
etc
etc
etc

Yvan256
Jan 14, 2005, 01:44 PM
All I want to know is what size HD do they use. It can't be a standard desktop drive which means the # of high cap 7400 RPM drives is going to limited.

From what I've read, the Mac mini uses a 4200 RPM laptop HD.

Dunno if the machine will overheat if you install a 5400 or 7400 RPM HD (is there such a thing as a laptop 7400 RPM HD?)

Yvan256
Jan 14, 2005, 01:49 PM
Woah. That's going to be the first thing I upgrade. A 4200RPM drive is going to kill performance. But at least it’s a 2.5” drive. It leaves some OPTIONS (http://www.seagate.com/cda/products/discsales/marketing/detail/0,1081,635,00.html) :D :D

Thanks for the info.

I already asked in another forum, but wouldn't an external 3.5" 7200 RPM HD in a FireWire enclose be faster than even an internal 2.5" 5400 RPM HD?

If so, me and my brother will surely buy the basic Mac mini (no point in paying for 170MHz and 40GB of laptop-speed HD), upgrade the RAM ourselves (to 512MB, 1GB is way too expensive for now), and add an external 80GB or so HD in a FireWire enclosure (if I buy a Mac mini, my gaming PC won't ever need anywhere near 80GB... I have lots of HDs around, it'll probably get a 40GB, or two 20GB or even four 10GB... Who cares, it's only for gaming). :D

Yvan256
Jan 14, 2005, 01:53 PM
I thought Apple would have used the larger drives considering they are cheaper.

The Mac mini uses a 2.5" laptop hard disk, which are a lot more expensive than regular 3.5" desktop drives.

Yvan256
Jan 14, 2005, 01:54 PM
When the stuff shows up here as a Customer Installable Part...

http://www.info.apple.com/usen/cip/

Then you'll know it won't void your warranty.

Otherwise, what will you say when Apple voids the warranty for adding memory when it breaks?

"I read it on MacRumors."

Except for the fact that the Mac mini isn't in the drop-down list...

solvs
Jan 14, 2005, 02:08 PM
This apple support document (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=300572) indicates that memory "should" be upgraded by an apple-authorized service provider.
Aw, you beat me to it. :p Just read this on Accelerate Your Mac. If it is should and not must, I may consider this after all. Newegg has some 1GB sticks for around ~$160, and a new laptop drive isn't that much. Either a big 5400 or a faster 7200. I'd go external firewire for DV anyway, but a nice Seagate 100GB drive would be nice as a startup disk. I can overlook the crappy gfx card since I don't game, and would do little beyond iMovie and the basics. I'm already convincing a friend to get one, as the basic model will do fine for her needs. But I might still wait to see what happens with the next P'Book or eMac.

Who's going to be the first to say they're waiting for rev. B (if it hasn't already been said)?

Edit: almost forgot, I have a friend who's a developer. He has a last gen 1GHz iBook and Tiger. Says it's getting faster with each new release. He's got 768MB of RAM, but it's the same video card and slower FSB. So I'm still interested. Most of Core Image may work after all, kinda like how Apple said QE was for 32MB cards, but then they said it would work on 16MB Radeons.

We shall see...

Peyote
Jan 14, 2005, 02:20 PM
I really hope we'll see a port replicator type thingie for this new mini.

I'd love to have a 1" or less tall device in the same shape and style as the mini, that gives you 1 FW, 2 USB, and 1 audio port on the front side. Similar to the iMac G4 "UFO". Just run very short "jumper" cables from the back of the device to the mini, and make the device replicate those ports on the front side. Use a tiny blue LED for each port (except Audio) that lights up when something is plugged in. You could even go so far as to put a memory card reader on the side, or a hard drive in the inside of the device. Maybe even an audio in port on the front. Kind of a device that does it all.

Hmmmm I've got a 24 x 24 x 1" slab of aluminum in my garage....if I only had a CNC mill.

Peyote
Jan 14, 2005, 02:27 PM
Except for the fact that the Mac mini isn't in the drop-down list...


That's what he's saying.

SiliconAddict
Jan 14, 2005, 03:06 PM
4200RPM drives don't "kill" performance. Just makes reading/writing a bit slower. And 60GB 7200RPM drives run close to $200 or so.

P.S. my 1Ghz TiBook has a 4200RPM drive and that hasn't slowed me down much at all.

Umm yes they do. Go to any site that benchmarks hard drives. Even www.barefeats.com I can tell you from practical experience that that I/O you are taking about can and DOES hit a system hard. I routinely upgrade users home systems. These are the $300-$500 PC's you hear about. They generally use 4200 drives. Ditto with cheaper low end PC laptops. In every case upgrading to a 5400 or 7200 (Thank you god.) drive kicks up the performance a notch. What? You think your entire OS, every program, every data file, resides in RAM? If you looking for the best performance on any system, be it PC or Mac, stay away from 4200 drives. They WILL drag your system performance down. Period.
If you want to talk sexy though try one of the new SATA 10,000 RPM drive. Trust me. Once you go 10K you won't ever want to go back.

Rod Rod
Jan 14, 2005, 03:12 PM
Do not stare directly at Mac mini.
Do not taunt Mac mini.
Do not use Mac mini on concrete.
If Mac mini begins to smoke, back away quickly, crouch, and cover head.
Mac mini is made of an unknown substance that fell to eath from space.
etc
etc
etc

Pokemon Mac mini?


I really hope we'll see a port replicator type thingie for this new mini.

I'd love to have a 1" or less tall device in the same shape and style as the mini, that gives you 1 FW, 2 USB, and 1 audio port on the front side. Similar to the iMac G4 "UFO". Just run very short "jumper" cables from the back of the device to the mini, and make the device replicate those ports on the front side. Use a tiny blue LED for each port (except Audio) that lights up when something is plugged in. You could even go so far as to put a memory card reader on the side, or a hard drive in the inside of the device. Maybe even an audio in port on the front. Kind of a device that does it all.

I'd prefer a 6.5" square FW case that would fit one or two 3.5" HDDs (and of course stack perfectly underneath the Mac Mini). The drives could be oriented east-west with the bridgeboard and fan(s) to the south.

SiliconAddict
Jan 14, 2005, 03:22 PM
Pokemon Mac mini?



Oh god! You spoke its name!! :eek:

Careful fool! You will summon the demons!! ;) J/K

I'd prefer a 6.5" square FW case that would fit one or two 3.5" HDDs (and of course stack perfectly underneath the Mac Mini). The drives could be oriented east-west with the bridgeboard and fan(s) to the south.


Yah know. The number of times the stacking hub idea has been brought up I think at this point its a forgone conclusion that someone is going to make one. This thing is so small I can see a whole host of possibilities arise around the mini if it does as well as most expect. :D

Rod Rod
Jan 14, 2005, 03:35 PM
SiliconAddict, I don't want a hub. I want a stacking FW400 3.5" ATA HD case. :)

Peyote
Jan 14, 2005, 04:05 PM
SiliconAddict, I don't want a hub. I want a stacking FW400 3.5" ATA HD case. :)

Too Bad, cuz I want a hub :p

rhpenguin
Jan 14, 2005, 06:33 PM
(is there such a thing as a laptop 7400 RPM HD?)


Yep... look at my sig.

dejo
Jan 14, 2005, 07:24 PM
Or, perhaps, something like this:

http://homepage.mac.com/dejo/.Pictures/raid_mini.jpg

Rod Rod
Jan 14, 2005, 11:26 PM
I like that!

Or, perhaps, something like this:

http://homepage.mac.com/dejo/.Pictures/raid_mini.jpg

Nermal
Jan 14, 2005, 11:49 PM
The Mac mini uses a 2.5" laptop hard disk, which are a lot more expensive than regular 3.5" desktop drives.

Yeah, that's what he said.

SiliconAddict
Jan 15, 2005, 12:02 AM
SiliconAddict, I don't want a hub. I want a stacking FW400 3.5" ATA HD case. :)

No I'm talking about the overall concept of expansion under the mimi. If this takes off like the iPod an entire industry could build up around putting something under the miniís bottom. (That little slut!) :D Including hard drive enclosures, hubs, etc. Hmm how about a LCD display that shows your e-mail status, glows a certain way when there is a Apple Update, displays a equalizer bar graph when iTunes is running, etc. Maybe one chunk that simply is a slot for your iPod? How about a mini UPS?
Make them all stackable maybe even locks to the mini with an aluminum pipe skeleton (Think G5 PowerMac feel to it.)

WCat
Jan 15, 2005, 01:36 AM
From what I've read, the Mac mini uses a 4200 RPM laptop HD.

Dunno if the machine will overheat if you install a 5400 or 7400 RPM HD (is there such a thing as a laptop 7400 RPM HD?)

Ah, there's the issue, isn't it? Apple qualifies the hard drives to work in the product over the full temperature range, and at environmental extremes. You should be VERY wary of buying and installing another 2.5 inch drive, especially one of the faster units. It is a well-known fact that there are wide differences in how much heat the various drives put out. You could possibly cause overheating and permanent damage to the HDD, the optical drive, power supply, or the mobo by installing the wrong drive.

Cost isn't the only reason for using a 4200 RPM drive. As a group, they run cooler than 5400 RPM designs. Also keep in mind that the mini does not use an active fan that runs all of the time, moving air over all of the internals--it depends on convection cooling, similar to most laptops.

Cheers,

WCat

Chip NoVaMac
Jan 15, 2005, 02:20 AM
It's not official until it's listed on Apple's Customer Installable Parts list (http://www.info.apple.com/usen/cip/) - it usually takes them a few days from the release of a new product to post the info.

edit - Jinx, Sun Baked. :p

Thanks to you all on this!

dejo
Jan 15, 2005, 02:22 AM
No I'm talking about the overall concept of expansion under the mimi. If this takes off like the iPod an entire industry could build up around putting something under the miniís bottom. (That little slut!) :D Including hard drive enclosures, hubs, etc. Hmm how about a LCD display that shows your e-mail status, glows a certain way when there is a Apple Update, displays a equalizer bar graph when iTunes is running, etc. Maybe one chunk that simply is a slot for your iPod? How about a mini UPS?
Make them all stackable maybe even locks to the mini with an aluminum pipe skeleton (Think G5 PowerMac feel to it.)

Great concept, SiliconAddict! I will let the Photoshop experts (or 3D modellers) come up with some prototype images. I could definitely see something similar to the U.F.O. for the iMac G4 being released.

tsk
Jan 15, 2005, 04:02 AM
Cost isn't the only reason for using a 4200 RPM drive. As a group, they run cooler than 5400 RPM designs. Also keep in mind that the mini does not use an active fan that runs all of the time, moving air over all of the internals--it depends on convection cooling, similar to most laptops.

That might be slightly true but I don't know if it's really a meaningful factor (and I'm not going to go searching through tech info). From what I recall, any difference was very minor and IMO probably negligible.

As a whole, the 4200 RPM drives are older than the 5400 RPM drives and as such the 5400 RPM drives have generally have better power specs. I mean, the 4200 RPM drives are ancient hard drives in computer terms.

Most of the research I've seen suggests that faster (newer) drives don't run any hotter. The reason generally cited is that yes they are hotter, but they're on less time because they are faster. I do recall doing research for this for my PB and found that the power consumption (and hence heat dissipation) of the 7200 RPM was for all practical purposes the same as the 5400 RPM drives.

I could be wrong, but I tend to doubt that the small (and probably neglible) extra heat of these drives is a factor. I suspect it's largely a cost issue. If I got a Mini, I'd definitely consider a HD upgrade and I know the only factor in my decision would be how much the HD cost, not if it was going to overheat.

mrwonkers
Jan 15, 2005, 05:57 AM
That might be slightly true but I don't know if it's really a meaningful factor (and I'm not going to go searching through tech info). From what I recall, any difference was very minor and IMO probably negligible.

As a whole, the 4200 RPM drives are older than the 5400 RPM drives and as such the 5400 RPM drives have generally have better power specs. I mean, the 4200 RPM drives are ancient hard drives in computer terms.

Most of the research I've seen suggests that faster (newer) drives don't run any hotter. The reason generally cited is that yes they are hotter, but they're on less time because they are faster. I do recall doing research for this for my PB and found that the power consumption (and hence heat dissipation) of the 7200 RPM was for all practical purposes the same as the 5400 RPM drives.

I could be wrong, but I tend to doubt that the small (and probably neglible) extra heat of these drives is a factor. I suspect it's largely a cost issue. If I got a Mini, I'd definitely consider a HD upgrade and I know the only factor in my decision would be how much the HD cost, not if it was going to overheat.


All well and good but highly speculative. I need to know can I put any of the 80Gb 7200rpm 2.5" drives currently available into the mini.....
Does anybody have any factual information which would support the use of faster drives in z miniMac...
I own a G5 iMac in which the logic board has been cooked three times in the three months I have had it.
I worry that Apples lean industrial design philosophy (which I love) could be causing thermal issues in their products if they are configured with faster hardware than Apple makes available in each models custom options....

I really want to buy a mini but not if I have to use a crap ass lame vile slug like 4200rpm drive....

If anyboby out there has any factual information to support this either way.....I would love to here it.

Yvan256
Jan 15, 2005, 08:48 AM
All well and good but highly speculative. I need to know can I put any of the 80Gb 7200rpm 2.5" drives currently available into the mini. [...] If anyboby out there has any factual information to support this either way.....I would love to here it.

Wouldn't an external 80GB 7200 RPM 3.5" drive in a FireWire 400 enclosure be even faster (and less expensive, even including the enclosure) than a 80GB 7200 RPM 2.5" drive?

Less hassle, costs less, possibly faster? (at the only expense of a not-so-clean-anymore desktop) :confused:

mrwonkers
Jan 15, 2005, 10:10 AM
Wouldn't an external 80GB 7200 RPM 3.5" drive in a FireWire 400 enclosure be even faster (and less expensive, even including the enclosure) than a 80GB 7200 RPM 2.5" drive?

Less hassle, costs less, possibly faster? (at the only expense of a not-so-clean-anymore desktop) :confused:


Uh yeah thanks for that........having an external hardrive sort of defeats the purpose of having a mini. I am talking about internal drives.......

Yvan256
Jan 15, 2005, 10:12 AM
Uh yeah thanks for that........having an external hardrive sort of defeats the purpose of having a mini. I am talking about internal drives.......

Last time I checked, the purpose of the mini was its low price. :rolleyes:

It also doesn't answer my question about an external 7200 RPM 3.5" drive in a FireWire 400 enclosure vs an internal 4200 RPM 2.5" drive. Anyone ever tested something like this? (iBook with external HD, how to they measure up?)

tsk
Jan 15, 2005, 11:20 AM
All well and good but highly speculative. I need to know can I put any of the 80Gb 7200rpm 2.5" drives currently available into the mini.....
Does anybody have any factual information which would support the use of faster drives in z miniMac...

The problem is that no one can have any factual info except Apple. You want good hard info, you have to talk to them. No one even knows what sort of drive they use (brand and model).

I did some checking here if you want fact and figures.

Here are the power specs on a random Fujitsu 40GB 4200 HD
http://www.fujitsu.com/global/services/computing/storage/hdd/mhdd/mht20ahxx-catalog.html

Spin up 5.0W maximum
Read / Write 2.3W typical
Idle 0.85W typical
Standby 0.25W typical
Sleep 0.10W typical

Here they are for a Hitachi 60GB 7200 RPM HD (I am aware of no one who makes 80GB 7200 RPM drives):
http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/7k60/7k60.htm

Startup (max. peak) 5.5 W
Seek (average) 2.6 W
Read (average) 2.5 W
Write (average) 2.5 W
Performance idle (average) 2.0 W
Active idle (average) 1.3 W
Low power idle (average) 0.85 W
Standby (average) 0.25 W
Sleep 0.1 W

You can see that the 7200 uses the same power at sleep/standby/idle as the 4200 and in general, it uses about 10% more during use. Well, if you figure the 7200 RPM does things in 40% faster times than the 4200 RPM, that extra power during reads is a moot point (and in fact the 7200 could actually run cooler based on those numbers). When the HD is just sitting there, they both act exactly the same. If you're using it for normal usage, I don't think it would have any affect. If you go and run something that is going to use your HD continuously for long periods of time, then it might have an affect (like running some programs while you are away that continuously thrash at the HD).

Is this speculative? Yes, of course. Am I a HD expert? No. Might I have missed a critical factor? Yes. Is there any hard info you can get? My best bet would be to call up Apple. I'm willing to guess that 9/10 people you talk to will tell you that Apple will void your warranty if you don't use their HD or some other party line. Anyone else out there know? How could they, the Mini is a week from shipping as it is.

If you do a search of 7200 rpm and PowerBook, you'll probably find some useful info. Trying to put the 7200 RPM in a PB is pretty similar.

Mechcozmo
Jan 15, 2005, 11:59 AM
That article doesn't seem real to me. Why?

The first item is wrong. A mac tests its video circuitry, to make sure it works. A monitor must be connected for the test to pass. Otherwise, the test fails, and the Mac starts up in an ultra-safe-mode that may or may not allow it to connect to a network, etc.

If a monitor is connected, the test passes and all is fine and dandy. Some adaptors fake having a monitor connected, so the Mac will start fine because the video circuitry passes.

(The reason for this is "if the video circuit is bad, there might be other worse things that went bad, so better be careful")

Rod Rod
Jan 15, 2005, 02:00 PM
All well and good but highly speculative. I need to know can I put any of the 80Gb 7200rpm 2.5" drives currently available into the mini.....
Does anybody have any factual information which would support the use of faster drives in z miniMac...
I own a G5 iMac in which the logic board has been cooked three times in the three months I have had it.
I worry that Apples lean industrial design philosophy (which I love) could be causing thermal issues in their products if they are configured with faster hardware than Apple makes available in each models custom options....

I really want to buy a mini but not if I have to use a crap ass lame vile slug like 4200rpm drive....

If anyboby out there has any factual information to support this either way.....I would love to here it.

Is this meant to be humor?

1. You want to install an 80GB 7200rpm 2.5" inside the Mac mini.
2. You seem to doubt there would be any problems with heat doing that.
3. You have installed a 300GB SATA drive inside your iMac G5.
4. Two or three of your iMac G5 logic boards have failed because of heat issues.

I'm sorry Apple has been paying for your mistakes, and it's too bad that you appear to fully intend to continue the same pattern of behavior.

External hdd enclosures are great. You shouldn't have everything on your boot drive, and for many purposes (transcoding video for example) it's faster to read from one drive and write to another instead of reading and writing to the same drive. Technology has advanced to the point that you can buy a long FireWire cable and place the external enclosure far from your setup and therefore conceal it.

dejo
Jan 16, 2005, 01:23 AM
Great concept, SiliconAddict! I will let the Photoshop experts (or 3D modellers) come up with some prototype images. I could definitely see something similar to the U.F.O. for the iMac G4 being released.

Well, I couldn't wait, SiliconAddict. In case you're curious, make sure to check out the Mac mini add-ons I photoshopped some mockups of over at this thread: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=105254

mrwonkers
Jan 16, 2005, 02:46 AM
Is this meant to be humor?

1. You want to install an 80GB 7200rpm 2.5" inside the Mac mini.
2. You seem to doubt there would be any problems with heat doing that.
3. You have installed a 300GB SATA drive inside your iMac G5.
4. Two or three of your iMac G5 logic boards have failed because of heat issues.

I'm sorry Apple has been paying for your mistakes, and it's too bad that you appear to fully intend to continue the same pattern of behavior.

No it was not meant to be humurous.......having your logic board fried is not funny
The iMac G5 I purchased was fitted with all the afformentioned hardware by an apple retailer.......So if it is indeed the problem perhaps Apple are paying for one of their resellers mistakes. I am only wishing to seek factual information so as to avoid any further ISSUES.

solvs
Jan 16, 2005, 04:08 AM
The iMac G5 I purchased was fitted with all the afformentioned hardware by an apple retailer.......
Not to mention, the point is a bit moot because the 300GB Maxtor and Seagates are actually cooler than some of the other drives out there. Not sure who Apple uses for it's 80 and 160GB drives, but if nothing else, it would be the same heat.

You might want to check around for similar threads on a 5400 or 7200 drives in iBooks and P'Books. Accelerate Your Mac (http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/) has some info about it as well. Since they are built for notebooks, they aren't supposed to get that hot. They are built to run cooler and low power. Still, you might want to wait until someone else tries it, because there may be other issues.

dejo
Jan 16, 2005, 04:59 AM
Not sure who Apple uses for it's 80 and 160GB drives...

The 160GB drive in my PowerMac G5 is a Seagate Barracuda.

Mord
Jan 16, 2005, 01:29 PM
Laurie Duncan is the owner and godess of http://www.cubeowner.com. If she isn't reliable we can't rely on the sun to rise tomorrow. Trust me, she's not making it up. AND she's an Apple Certified Technician. Or an apple authorized service provider. Or something like that, I forget which one it is.

i can second that.

but the article still looks odd to me in that he is announcing the upgrade kit before it's available which apple is usually anal about.

Mord
Jan 16, 2005, 01:36 PM
That article doesn't seem real to me. Why?

The first item is wrong. A mac tests its video circuitry, to make sure it works. A monitor must be connected for the test to pass. Otherwise, the test fails, and the Mac starts up in an ultra-safe-mode that may or may not allow it to connect to a network, etc.

If a monitor is connected, the test passes and all is fine and dandy. Some adaptors fake having a monitor connected, so the Mac will start fine because the video circuitry passes.

(The reason for this is "if the video circuit is bad, there might be other worse things that went bad, so better be careful")

nope, i can boot my cube headless and remote desktop into it, which i did for a while with my cube with ARD and SSH.

Mechcozmo
Jan 16, 2005, 04:54 PM
nope, i can boot my cube headless and remote desktop into it, which i did for a while with my cube with ARD and SSH.

Interesting... a PowerTower Pro 225 (OS 8.6) doesn't behave that way, and I don't think my Dad's Quicksilver does but it hasn't been shut down in weeks.

Mord
Jan 16, 2005, 04:57 PM
it even works with no video card in it.

panphage
Jan 16, 2005, 05:29 PM
My cube boots headless just fine. So does the xserve (which I guess is not a mac so I don't know if that matters.) I would imagine the PowerMac Server towers boot and network just fine w/o a monitor, they were marketed and sold as server machines.

pigwin32
Jan 16, 2005, 06:30 PM
4200RPM drives don't "kill" performance. Just makes reading/writing a bit slower. And 60GB 7200RPM drives run close to $200 or so.

P.S. my 1Ghz TiBook has a 4200RPM drive and that hasn't slowed me down much at all.
I dropped a 60GB Hitachi 7200rpm drive into my 667 TiBook and I consider it some of the best money I've ever spent.

solvs
Jan 17, 2005, 05:52 AM
The 160GB drive in my PowerMac G5 is a Seagate Barracuda.
Thx. They must use all sorts of different ones. Mine was a WD, my Sister's was a Maxtor. Different machines, but I wonder if all G5s come with Seagates. I've been happy with them, but the retail kits come with 5 year warranties.

tubedogg
Jan 19, 2005, 03:26 PM
I still think this sounds fishy. If they wanted it to be easily accessable by the user they would have made the shell more user friendly. As it stand it looks like its heald together the same way the PowerBook is - with clips."Easily accessible" and "doable" are two different things.

At any rate, Macworld (whom I would consider pretty reliable and not prone to printing rumors) was told by Apple that "you can [upgrade the RAM] yourself without voiding your warranty 'unless you break something when you open it.'" Source: http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/editors/2005/01/miniapplesandoranges/index.php