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MacRumors
Jul 7, 2001, 02:00 AM
Nick Webb (mailto:pootietang@bellsouth.net) writes "Go2Mac has [another] inside scoop of what will appear at MWNY!!!

http://www.go2mac.com/story.lasso?newsID=8021 "

...interesting user specualtion. To quote a passage:
Expect to see this line of products:

- Single G4 iMac;
- Single G4 iBook (the so-called SOP, replacing iBook 2 which was only to take our attention away from the real thing);
- Dual G4 Towers (new enclosure);
- Dual G4 TiBook (already spotted some places);
- Everything else: gone.

Think different they say...

spikey
Jul 7, 2001, 10:16 AM
Someone very hopeful, with not much marketing sense created that.............but there is still hope.

OreoCookie
Jul 7, 2001, 10:19 AM
Well, this is one unrealistic article.
Replacing the iBook with a completely new design - that's just not going to happen. Too much money has been invested in it - Apple can't possible afford a redesign of such a successful product.
A 14" display does not fit in the current iBook, no way.
The heat problems of the 'Dual G4 TiBook' are also no quite realistic (apart from the idea of having a dual configuration in a mobile computer that kills the 4 h-battery life). The thermal design is able to cope with the power output of a 7440 (about 12 W). So a dual 7410-version should be *technically* possible.
So overall, this is just a let's-dream-along article. I am surprised they didn't predict a PowerMac G5.

AgentKhaki
Jul 7, 2001, 10:49 AM
I remember when a friend of mine was going to buy a G4 tower about a year ago, or thereabouts. Anyway, he had ordered one speed, and Apple discontinued that speed before his order was shipped, and they made him pay more to get one of the newer speeds. If these rumors are true, perhaps this would explain why iBooks are delayed for 20 days now, up from 15 days about two days ago... Perhaps they are in fact going to up the speed to a G4... I wouldn't mind paying extra.

Simon Liquid
Jul 7, 2001, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by Macrumors

- Single G4 iBook (the so-called SOP, replacing iBook 2 which was only to take our attention away from the real thing);




Apple's goal is not to trick us here, much as it may seem so from our perspective. They are is fact trying to make money (surprised?) and you don't do this by discontinuing a basically brand new product after 2 and a half months.

Macwizzard
Jul 7, 2001, 12:39 PM
I agree, apple has planted lots of cash into the iBook marketing and development. A possible reason for increased wait for delivery could be the increasing number of orders.

AgentKhaki
Jul 7, 2001, 05:19 PM
I guess that's why they're just rumors... no one will really know until after MacWorld I guess.

menoinjun
Jul 7, 2001, 05:50 PM
I don't think that SJ is ready to jump to a single processor lineup. Think about it....Intel has the Celeron and the P4. Why get rid of the G3s? Educators don't want to buy the expensive G4 chips when faster G3s would work just fine. The G3s sell to well to kill. My predictions:

iMac- Faster, 15" LCD, cube components, dual processor model?
TiBook- CDRW/DVD combo drive.
iBook- none
G4 Towers- New case color, DDR Ram, speeds closing on 1ghz, but not reaching it. Dual processors in all models except base. (that may be pushing it, but this is only a prediction.)

How about larger HD's across the board?? USB 2.0 anyone?

-Pete

[Edited by ptrauber on 07-07-2001 at 06:58 PM]

macboy
Jul 7, 2001, 07:48 PM
Why not just use laptop technologies in the LCD screens??? Just use the same type of stuff that are in the ibooks in the imacs.... that is the type of technology that panasonic is using in their flat LCD computer.

Apple has seemed to be able to offer the low end iBook at a lower cost so it seems reasonable....

MacCynic
Jul 7, 2001, 10:48 PM
Why go to all G4s? For most software there's no advantage, and in a portable it just shortens battery life. A faster G3 in an ibook (with enough memory in the base configuration unlike the current model) would be better all around.

OreoCookie
Jul 8, 2001, 01:36 AM
As for dual G3s, they are not capable of running in multiple processor environments. They were thought to be the cheaper line of processors along the Mach5 604e's.
But they proved to be faster than them.
I would expect one change for the iBooks that would explain the increase of delay - new colors. It would perfectly make sense, and it fits nicely with Apple's strategy. It also wouldn't offend customers too much that just bought an iBook right before the 18th.
I wish, they would come up with a G4 iBook though, but I don't think that's going to happen before January. You ever thought that the (now useless) fan in the iBook is for a processor with (a lot) more heat dissipation ...
The TiBook was designed to be able to cope with 4 times as much heat dissipation as needed now.

But still, it's not going to happen now.

jefhatfield
Jul 8, 2001, 08:46 AM
this would be too much too fast

apple needs only to add speed bumps, larger hard drives, and maybe an LCD iMac...that would be plenty

the iBook is fine for now but new colors would be cool

we will have to see

GPTurismo
Jul 8, 2001, 10:35 AM
Well, All G4's because OS X takes full advantage alti vec. I don' t think apple will put out a new iBook casing. Maybe put a g4 in it. Not a larger screen though. That would hit the TiBook's sales to hard.

A dual g4 TiBook is possible with the 7410's. They used a lot less power and stayed very very cool. Also, the processors aren't the big pull on battery life... SCREENS are.

I believe dual G4's will be released. They would eb stupid not to after their big deal with dual 500's. They probably will go ahead and go with DDR RAM. Possibly 200 speed.

I believe a new version iMac. LCD screen, possibly a g4 processor.

an update of the powerbook will come in september. Steve is a smart marketer, why flood the market now and confuse buyers, when you can release a good bit now, get sales up, and release a new powerbook in september to pick up sales again.

MacRumors
Jul 8, 2001, 10:45 AM
At the very end of June, all G4 towers moved to EOL status at CompUSA. That's about 3 weeks prior to MacWorld NY. There are those that thing that this is not enough time to sufficiently clear the channels (in Apple's view) and that as a result, no new G4 towers will be announced @ MWNY.

It would seem to me that since it's not a secret that CompUSA has moved to EOL status on these units, that SOMETHING would have to give in the way of new towers. Do you guys agree with me?

I really need new towers @ this MWNY. My G3 has been sold, and I will, in a day or two, be webbing it on an i-opener (hacked to run Win98) in the interrim. I hope Seybold is not when we'll see the new towers...


blakespot

the corrector
Jul 8, 2001, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by OreoCookie
As for dual G3s, they are not capable of running in multiple processor environments. They were thought to be the cheaper line of processors along the Mach5 604e's.


Oh really? Go check IBM's website for info on an ATX reference motherboard for dual PPC 750cxes. Not that Apple's ever gonna use them, but they do support SMP.

OreoCookie
Jul 8, 2001, 04:55 PM
Well, this is the latest revision. They did not support this feature in the beginning due to their marchitecture (positioning on the market).
However, I did not know, this feature has been added. Thanks.
I agree that such a design wouldn't make sense for Apple. Using the (now cheaper) 7410 is probably the better way.

--- quote ---

Why go to all G4s? For most software there's no advantage, and in a portable it just shortens battery life. A faster G3 in an ibook (with enough memory in the base configuration unlike the current model) would be better all around.

--- unquote ---

Well, it does make sense, because the framework of MacOS X is optimized for the G4 and uses AltiVec to a considerable degree. There is a significant subjective difference working on a B/W G3 350 and a G4 450 (Cube).
When sticking with the 7410, battery life is not an issue, either.

FooMac
Jul 8, 2001, 06:43 PM
Look, the G3/consumer and G4/pro relationship is a solid delineation and one they'll probably stick with until a G5 is ready. It makes selling the product a pretty clear choice for the consumer. That lack of a clear choice is EXACTLY why the Cube and the Tower strategy backfired; I doubt Apple would make that same mistake twice (at least not this soon.)

And why on earth would Apple redo a wildly successful product (iBook) only 2 1/2 months after its release? Here's my W.A.G:

* faster G4 towers in new enclosure -- dual processors on the high end;
* G3 iBook in colors;
* G4 Ti PowerBook in colors;
* G3 LCD iMac with detachable screen for different sizes available -- 14", 15" or 17". If anything, THIS is the iBook /TiBook revision thats been bandied about the past few months.

If anyone else recalls, rumor sites were predicting last MWNY a new enclosure for the G4 tower that was "like a cube." So there's a grain of truth in there somewhere, but we're all being too literal about it...

Just my two cents. I'll be there at MWNY to see what happens!

-- FooMac

menoinjun
Jul 8, 2001, 09:25 PM
Why is a dual G3 iMac out of the question? I admit that it is a very large stretch, but with Apple's past commitment to dual processors, and the huge promotion of Max OSX and the SMP, it really wouldn't surprise me all that much. I think that g4 iMacs are definetly out of the question, but as for dual g3's, maybe only the $1499 model will come with dual 750's. That would be great! I'll take my dual 533 anytime though.

Updated predictions:

iMac- Faster mhz, 15" LCD, cube components, cdrw/dvd combos in all models. (if they can do it in the iBook, why not here?)
iBook- none
TiBook - none (the VSD promotion isn't over until Sept, so then they will release one with a combo drive.
G4 towers- new case color/theme, combo drives, DDR-Ram, almost 1ghz, all dualies. (maybe one model still single) USB 2.0.

What do you think?

-Pete

Prozy.G3
Jul 9, 2001, 07:01 AM
Maybe or maybe not:


http://www.macparc.ch/secret_about_box/



Greets

Prozy.G3

Zaren
Jul 9, 2001, 09:26 AM
There's no way in the world that Apple's going to get rid of the white iBook this soon. They've got it all over in their ads, and it's (from what I can see online and from friends) HUGELY popular. A friend of mine who can always find a dozen things wrong with any Apple product can only complain about the lack of pc cards slots in the new iBook.

Personally, I like the idea of Apple re-cycling the Cube guts into new iMacs; sure would be a great way to put the back inventory to use, as well as keep the slick hardware design in play.

blakespot
Jul 9, 2001, 10:04 AM
Do you guys think that The Apple Stores (like the one opened at Tysons a few weeks back) will air the keynote to MWNY in their theatre area, and upon the unveiling of the new Macs, will have one on hand to show, and possibly stock of the new units??

That would be a crazy fine role of the Apple Store to play in this sort of event. I wonder if it's worth missing work and hanging out there on keynote day, next week?



blakespot

macboy
Jul 9, 2001, 01:58 PM
I hope that is what Apple would do! The smart thing on their part!!!!

Macwizzard
Jul 9, 2001, 08:57 PM
That would be pretty cool, sad thing is Apple has no store near me.

MacCynic
Jul 11, 2001, 01:36 PM
--- quote ---

Well, it does make sense, because the framework of MacOS X is optimized for the G4 and uses AltiVec to a considerable degree. There is a significant subjective difference working on a B/W G3 350 and a G4 450 (Cube). When sticking with the 7410, battery life is not an issue, either.

--- unquote ---

Why would you compare a B/W G3 350 and a G4 450? There are so many enhancements that have nothing to do with the processor that it's a meaningless comparison. The only thing thing I've noticed about cubes is their tendency to shut down or startup unannounced, and Apple's inability to fix the problem.

You'll have to excuse me. I forgot that I was supposed to be a good little Apple zombie running a beta operating system on my work Macs, even though it doesn't support half of what I use everyday to make a living.

I guess my motivation would be… the dock is so cute?

Since Apple is still shipping ibooks without enough memory to run OSX, I don't suppose they really expect you to use OSX on everything they make at this point. I don't know how a G4 would help, but I haven't seen the relative wattage of a G3 versus the 7410. I'd rather have another $5 worth of RAM.

OreoCookie
Jul 11, 2001, 04:07 PM
I am aware of the fact that a lot of technology apart from the processor has changed.
But nevertheless, I do not agree that it is not comparable. It matters to me, at least, if I consider the system responsive or not. You might argue that this is not fair, because the B/Ws are of another generation (of mobos, chips, etc.). That's exactly my point.
I have a more 'even' comparison for you - the TiBook and a Pismo. Both feature a similar motherboard and the same grafx chip.
The PowerBook G4 is significantly faster than the Pismo despite their technical similarities.

Anyway, all optimizations are made for chips with AltiVec.
The acceleration of this optimized code is far above the acceleration due to the increase in raw clockspeed or the faster grafx card.

Mac OS X is not ready for many things, I do know that. But many people forget that it is a 1.0 release - and for that, it is a good one.
Your motivation to get familiar with OS X is that this will be the future. An operating system without real memory protection and pervasive multitasking (up to OS 9) is not up to date.

(The G3@500 and the G4@400 (7410) consume about the same power.)

MacCynic
Jul 11, 2001, 05:18 PM
--- quote ---

The PowerBook G4 is significantly faster than the Pismo despite their technical similarities.

--- unquote ---

"Significantly faster" is a subjective term, and one which you would define differently than I would. I have a Pismo and I've used a TiBook and quite frankly the difference in performance did not justify the cost of a new Tibook as far as I was concerned. Perhaps when there is another 200 MHz involved I may purchase one, but I find most people prefer the TiBook because it's "pretty".

--- quote ---

Mac OS X is not ready for many things, I do know that. But many people forget that it is a 1.0 release - and for that, it is a good one. Your motivation to get familiar with OS X is that this will be the future. An operating system without real memory protection and pervasive multitasking (up to OS 9) is not up to date.

--- unquote ---

I am not concerned with being "up to date", that is a subjective term as well. I believe there are versions of Windows that offer those features (and they run on machines with dramatically faster processors) and would therefore be "up to date", however I find Windows to be a less productive platform than the Mac for creative work. Since OSX does not support the software I need, I must return to the "classic" environment to get work done, I do not consider that "up to date", perhaps it is visionary.

It doesn't matter that OSX is impressive for a 1.0 release, it is a 1.0 release nonetheless and all the shortcomings it exhibits are best left to people that are hobbyists or paid to resolve such issues.

I, for one would be happy if Apple went to all G4s, because then I could pick up a G3 ibook for paperwork (yes, I do find it reponsive enogh to crank out an invoice) at a steep discount when they close them out shortly thereafter. However, I do not expect such a thing to happen

OreoCookie
Jul 12, 2001, 02:48 AM
OK, let me get a little more precise here.
I agree that the Mac platform is suited much better to get your work done faster - that is the reason I am using a Mac.
But some shortcomings of MacOS 9 and lower are solved for at least 15 years (since the invetion of Unix) like memory protection.
Those features let you work even more productively, if the software is available. In my case, most software is already avialable - I do miss an office suite. I agree with you that if you work professionally, OS X is not ready for that. But in my opinion, one should work with it in the spare time in order to get used to it. That's all I'm saying.
The subjective speed increase is hard to measure, I agree with that - I did not run benchmarks on it. However, my personal experience with it was that *is* faster using OS X.(The Pismo vs. TiBook comparison did only refer to OS X, not OS 9.)

Thin Ice
Jul 12, 2001, 03:13 AM
Apple would be NUTS not to use the cube's innards in an LCD iMac. They've done too much R&D to just axe the lot. Apple knew about the cube before we did (duh!) and they've had a lot of time to work on improvements. I think the new iMac was already cube-based long before the axing.

They can also be made a lot cheaper now. Re-jig the plastics to allow the "clip-on" LCD monitor du jour (hey that was MY idea! ;)) and voila!

G4 LCD iMac (fully upgradeable inc. monitor).

In my head the computer fits more onto the back of the monitor rather than the monitor onto the computer.

Oh, and one more thing. Could you re-jig the G4 Tower casing so that the same LCD's can clip onto the side of it?

Ta.

Dave :)

(If Apple don't do something like this, I'll start my own computer company).

Thin Ice
Jul 12, 2001, 03:18 AM
And to all of you gushing over OS X...

Did you gush over the Be OS too?

Didn't think so.

You are Apple fans, not impartial reviewers.

If it's ONLY version 1.0 and it WILL get better, please allow those of us who need a refined OS (today) to have our opinions. OS X is for sale as a finished product after all.

Macwizzard
Jul 12, 2001, 07:29 PM
It's great, but will get better. I agree on your views.

OreoCookie
Jul 13, 2001, 02:10 AM
That's why I want to get used to MacOS X :smile:
It feels like a MacOS ...

boobybum
Jul 16, 2001, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by macboy
Why not just use laptop technologies in the LCD screens??? Just use the same type of stuff that are in the ibooks in the imacs.... that is the type of technology that panasonic is using in their flat LCD computer.

Apple has seemed to be able to offer the low end iBook at a lower cost so it seems reasonable....


I think there is a difference between the lcd's intended for laptops and lcd's intended for home systems.
Laps need as much battery life as possible, so they don't get decent output for any serious graphics work but however the plug in LCD's are kicka$$ for their 160º viewing angle and output is quite alot better...i wish the tibook had a second power mode for the monitor on it when plugged into a wall..

Cheers, booby