What is the Best Linux OS?

[sjpetry]

I have a Mac running 10.3.7 and I want to start playing around with Linux. I know their are many different types of Linux but what one is the best (and well rounded) for the beginner Linux user (I am very proficient with Macs and PCs and a fast learner). I could run it on Virtual PC 7 but would prefer not to. Any thoughts would be great. :)

[Westside guy]

You are going to get 100 different answers from 100 different people. :D

For x86 architecture I really like Fedora Core (the free, cutting-edge version of Red Hat Linux). If you're going to run it in VPC, you're going to want the x86 varieties. But it's going to be rather slow running in there.

I would suggest that, instead, you investigate some of the "Live CD" Linuxes that run natively on PPC architecture. This will let you play around with Linux without touching your OS X setup, yet will be much faster than anything running in VPC. I'm pretty sure Gentoo and Ubuntu have Live CDs for PPC, and I think Mandrake may as well. But you'll hear much more on that subject (and many tangents) as people respond to the thread, I'm sure!

[revenuee]

I have a Mac running 10.3.7 and I want to start playing around with Linux. I know their are many different types of Linux but what one is the best (and well rounded) for the beginner Linux user (I am very proficient with Macs and PCs and a fast learner). I will be running it on Virtual PC 7. Any thoughts would be great. :)

all you need is in your OS X -- the OS is based around UNIX --- so anything you want to do with linux (for the most part with the exception of several commands) you can do with OS X

[sjpetry]

all you need is in your OS X -- the OS is based around UNIX --- so anything you want to do with linux (for the most part with the exception of several commands) you can do with OS X

Ok so what are the "best" for OS X.

[mkrishnan]

Ok so what are the "best" for OS X.

So say more about what you want to do? If you want to explore GNU X apps or Unix command line, then I agree with the "stick with OS X" since you can get a lot of the free X apps through Fink and you already have the command line. If you want to learn Linux for the joy of learning Linux...

I would recommend getting the Knoppix live CD, which I believe is based off Debian. It runs very easily and smoothly without a lot of configuration. Once you learn more, you'll have some Debian background. :)

[sjpetry]

If you want to learn Linux for the joy of learning Linux...

That's what I want to do. :)

[mkrishnan]

That's what I want to do. :)

Then Knoppix is a pretty good place to start. Try this link to get it:

http://www.knopper.net/knoppix-mirrors/download.php?lang=en&link=http://csociety-ftp.ecn.purdue.edu/pub/knoppix/

You'll want the file KNOPPIX_V3.6-2004-08-16-EN.iso once you get in, which you can burn as a CD or mount.

[ravenvii]

Back when I played around with Linux, I tried Knoppix, SuSE (my favorite - expecially with the Ximian desktop - but it seems Novell killed Ximian and integrated it into their SuSE Linux Desktop) and Gentoo (it truly forces you to learn the inner workings of Lunux. Not recommended unless you really want to know Linux intimately).

In the end, I decided I don't like Linux, I don't like the "cheap, guickly thrown together" feel of Linux, and the hassles it forces you to go through to get anything to work. It's even worse than Windows :eek: Still the journey was worth it - it's a large part of the computer world, and worth experience at least once.

[robbieduncan]

If you want to get up and running quickly then a Live CD is probably best. If you want to learn more than you will ever really need to know about how Linux works the install Gentoo (on a spare disk, you will probably want to boot back to OSX) from Stage 1. This way you will get to see every little thing that is going into the OS and compile your own customised kernel with the bits you want.

[greenmeanie]

i think knoppix is the best overall.

[musicpyrite]

For x86 and beginners I think Red Hat would be best. For a live disk I think Knoppix. (my personal favorite is Damn Small Linux)

For PPC try Yellow Dog. (based off Red Hat if I remember right)

[inlimbo]

I too have been dipping my toe into the world of linux (But now im dipping my toe into the Mac OS world)... A couple that I have found quite good for linux newbies:

1) Mandrake linux
2) SUSE linux
3) Xandros - probably the easiest for newbies/Windows switchers
4) Yopper - havent tried this one yet but it is apparently the fastest linux out there. (One complaint about linux is that it is a bit slow - slower than XP dont know about MAC OS).

http://distrowatch.com/ is a great place where u can read up on all the distros floating around out there. On the home page they have a list on the right hand side of the screen showing the most popular distros.
Here's an article on the top 10 distributions that I found helpful http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=major

Live CDs are a good way to go but its easy enough to create another partition on your hard drive and it can run side by side with your other operating system. (When u install Xandros it does this for you!!!)

Have fun
inlimbo...

[igucl]

Out of curiosity, what is the right way to pronounce "Linux"?

[cluthz]

For linux on mac check out www.penguinppc.org or www.ppcnerds.org

They have a list of almost all linux distros for mac.
You have YellowDog, Mandrake, Ubuntu, Fedore, Crux, SUSE etc...

[blodwyn]

For Linux on a PC, then Xandros is the most newcomer-friendly (but it's not free). The file manager automatically displays windows shares, and it has integrated CD and DVD burning.

For messing with, the Mepis is great

[auxplage]

Out of curiosity, what is the right way to pronounce "Linux"?

I have had this discussion with people who use Linux and there is much debate. Here is my conclusion conclusion (I apologize for my "ghetto" phonectics (considering I do not know phonetic symbols)): say "in" put an "L" in front of it and then say "uks".

[kerb]

always liked Mandrake best.
the correct pronunciations is Lin-Ux as opposed to Line-Ux

[sjpetry]

Then Knoppix is a pretty good place to start. Try this link to get it:

http://www.knopper.net/knoppix-mirrors/download.php?lang=en&link=http://csociety-ftp.ecn.purdue.edu/pub/knoppix/

You'll want the file KNOPPIX_V3.6-2004-08-16-EN.iso once you get in, which you can burn as a CD or mount.
I downloaded this but it wants to open in Virtual PC. I want it to run in OS X. Can someone help me please.

[Westside guy]

Mr. Torvalds pronounces it "lean-ux".

[sjpetry]

I pronounce it as "Links".

Can anyone help me to make it run on OS X.

[cluthz]

I pronounce it as "Links".

Can anyone help me to make it run on OS X.

You need to download the version compilerd for PPC, not a x86/i386/i586/i686.
You must boot from the knoppix cd, not start it from OSX.

[sjpetry]

Ok thanks.

[MoparShaha]

I'm downloading the x86 version right now (going to try it at work).

I want to try it on my Mac too, but I couldn't find a pre-compiled PPC version on the site. Has anyone else found it?

[sjpetry]

I'm downloading the x86 version right now (going to try it at work).

I want to try it on my Mac too, but I couldn't find a pre-compiled PPC version on the site. Has anyone else found it?

Of Knoppix?

[JeDiBoYTJ]

I tried running linspire in VPC7, and it ran worse than XP... then when I went to load a program, then screen just turned black and didnt do anything for 2 hours.... then I deleted it.

so knoppix is PPC Native?

[jaromski]

Debian is the best, no question. I started out as a RedHat guy in college, but Debian blows Redhat away. Debian packages tend to fall behind the bleeding edge distros but all in all you can't match the reliability/stability in the rest of the Linux community. Also I think there is a more friendly desktop package called SimplyMepis that is based off Debian. Also, you can run it on x86/ppc no problem.

Jaromski

[mkrishnan]

I'm sorry, I misunderstood you re: using VP7. Yellow Dog for PPC is based on Redhat, as someone previously mentioned, and is here:

http://www.yellowdoglinux.com/resources/downloads.shtml

I'm not sure about an eval cd version... there might be but a cursory look didn't reveal one.

Also, maybe look at this for Debian on a Mac....

http://seb.france.free.fr/linux/ibookG4/iBookG4-howto.html

[risc]

Debian is the best, no question. -- Jaromski

No question? That's a bold statement, I've been using Linux since 1994 and I don't understand peoples thing with saying one distro is better than another, basically they are all the same, they all use the GNU tools. Debian has nice package management, but it's no better than Fedora Cores, Mandrakelinux, or Gentoos (etc). Of course you could know bring up that Debian Unstable has 16,000+ packages and I could bring up that Debian Unstable can be just that Unstable, I could also bring up that Gentoo has a similar amount of packages. I could also bring up that most of the stuff in Debian Unstable is pretty much useless, how many people actually prefer using svgalib instead of X? IMHO possibly the best package management I've seen for a Linux distro would be Gentoos, the USE variable is amazing for people who need that kind of control over the OS, urpmi on Mandrakelinux is pretty good too I like the way it can deal with rpms, and tarballs both source and binary, yeah apt is good but it's no better than anything else out there now.

Linux is all about choice so to the original poster just try as many as you can download, see which configuration tools you like, see which package management you prefer, but don't ever fall for this my disto is better than yours crap, they are all exactly the same. Just don't expect it to work as well on PPC as is does on x86 since a lot of the hardware from the more modern Macs isn't supported properly. Linux is a great OS for x86 hardware, and I think it would be excellent for an older Mac too, but any Mac that can run OS X I can't see the point of running Linux other than you want to try it out, since with projects like Fink and OpenDarwins DarwinPorts nearly everything has been ported or there is already a native port.

Oh well it's your computer try them all and see which fits best!

[Daveway]

I just installed Mandrake 10.0 on a 400mhz PC and it runs great. I really like it. The installation was easier than most other operating systems like debian which is horrendous. Setting up networking is also very easy. I stuck a few drives in it and I'm using it as a file server for my home. I've tried Knoppix, Debian, Suse, Red Hat, and Berry. Mandrake steels the show, I highly recommend it.

[risc]

I just installed Mandrake 10.0 on a 400mhz PC and it runs great. ... Mandrake steels the show, I highly recommend it.

I'd second that it's a great distro my GF has been using Mandrakelinux 10.0 Official (The PowerPack Box Set) since it was released, I really liked the way you could do everything from the install including setting up all the services you wanted to run it's a nice touch, I installed it for her, she uses it, and every so often I ssh on to it and upgrade it. The 3rd party packages from PLF are great too. I was a huge Debian geek for years and years but when it comes to recommending distros to my friends Mandrakelinux 10.x Official (I've heard Community sucks) is the first one I'd recommend now.

[sjpetry]

How do I make my Mac boot from a CD?

Thanks,
Spencer

[Daveway]

I'd second that it's a great distro my GF has been using Mandrakelinux 10.0 Official (The PowerPack Box Set) since it was released, I really liked the way you could do everything from the install including setting up all the services you wanted to run it's a nice touch, I installed it for her, she uses it, and every so often I ssh on to it and upgrade it. The 3rd party packages from PLF are great too. I was a huge Debian geek for years and years but when it comes to recommending distros to my friends Mandrakelinux 10.x Official (I've heard Community sucks) is the first one I'd recommend now.

Wow. A girl using linux. Thats not something you hear everyday.

[sjpetry]

Wow. A girl using linux. Thats not something you hear everyday.
Wow thats sexist. :eek:

Does anyone know what key I hold to boot from a CD on a Mac?

[risc]

How do I make my Mac boot from a CD?

Thanks,
Spencer

Hold down the C key.

[sjpetry]

Hold down the C key.
I did but it didn't work. :confused:

[khammack]

I've used slackware, redhat, freebsd, openbsd, gentoo, suse, debian, xandros, mepis, knoppix, and mandrake. I've used linux pretty much exclusively since 1995.

This question of which linux is "best" comes up constantly in the linux forums. As is already apparent in this thread, there is no "best" distribution; everyone has a favorite and many people will insist that their favorite is the "best".

My answer to this question is always the same: decide for yourself. Each linux distribution is basically the same underneath, each one is flawed in it's own special way, and each one has advantages over the others. Just start here:

http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=major

Read each blurb, pick the one that most sounds like what you are looking for.

Personally, I use mostly Debian with SuSE on my desktop at work. My wife uses Xandros (hey, that's TWO females using linux). At work I do a lot of work on redhat servers, and I think many companies use redhat (though this is changing). But what I use is not necessarily what someone else would want to use.

Most people would want a Mac, right? I'm still scrimping...

-kev

[jaromski]

No question? That's a bold statement, I've been using Linux since 1994 and I don't understand peoples thing with saying one distro is better than another, ...
Oh well it's your computer try them all and see which fits best!

I still stand beside my original statement, of fact. Debian is best, no question. Now maybe it isn't for you, but that is because you are wrong. And I am right. Plus I've been using Linux since '93. And my dad can beat up your dad. I win.

Ok so maybe the whole distro thing is a religious argument. But, the original author did enlist our opinions in the original post. So, I gave mine. Evidently it didn't sit well with you, but that is ok. Someday you will see the one true way(tm).

JaromSki

P.S. Gentoo sucks donkey balls.

[risc]

Someday you will see the one true way(tm).

LOL - Well Debian is probably the Linux I've had the most experience with but it's also the one with the most .. um what's a nice way of putting this ... fanatical users, although Gentoo users can't be that far behind now.

As for me finding the one true way, yeah I did that when I finally gave up Linux as my desktop OS and bought a Mac. ;)

[Westside guy]

A note about Gentoo...

It's users can be rather fanatical for sure - I've seen them recommend Gentoo as a "beginner's Linux" without telling folks about the time involved for installing it (due to the default of compiling everything from source). Fedora, Debian, Mandrake, and Yellow Dog will get you up and running much faster, and with a lower initial learning curve.

It may be a great distro, but certainly not for the beginner who's looking for an easy intro to Linux. You can always investigate it once you've gotten your feet wet. :D

[Mechcozmo]

www.DamnSmallLinux.org (http://www.DamnSmallLinux.org) is a great, small, x86 Linux Distro... and it is USB flash drive installable! How cool!

[acedickson]

I personally like Mandrake but I take Knoppix STD with me to do my job! It's great for a learning tool also. Boots straight from the disc. PHLAK is decent too and it does the same.

[mmmdreg]

A heap of people I have spoken to have said Ubuntu is really cool so. I dunno? =) But there's so many different distro's that it's really a personal preference thing no?

[Jon'sLightBulbs]

*Bracing for tomatos impacting my head*

Suse is decent for a first time Linux install. The installation is flawless. Especially on systems with slightly older components, drivers aren't a problem at all. And if you manage to get your hands on the professional version, you'll have plenty of open source software in your hands without the hassle of searching google.

[jaromski]

As for me finding the one true way, yeah I did that when I finally gave up Linux as my desktop OS and bought a Mac. ;)

Too true. I used to be a hardcore Linux guy in school. (I'm not anymore :) ) Many religious arguments back when I believed in something...but now that I am older and crabbier (as you can attest to from my earlier post) I just hate mucking about with Linux. I really like Debian for server stuff, you know a little apache, ssh daemon, php, mysql, samba, etc., it really works well. But god damn it! It takes so much friggin' energy to get it working out of the box. It has a tendency to throw fits for _no reason_ when you say upgrade from a 2.4.x kernel to a 2.6.x kernel. Hardware that was working perfectly well in 2.4 now has no workable driver in 2.6. But you want 2.6 because it has a much improved, re-factored kernel. But now your disk drive doesn't work. Oh and I have I mentioned how spotty the firewire & wireless support is in linux? God damn that really irks me, better not get me started on that one...

You only have so much energy on a given day and with Linux I spent a great deal of that time trouble-shooting, debugging, and configuring ****. Way too much time. I mean it is great if you have nothing else to do once the machine is up and running, but if you have **** to do, it really sucks. You run out of steam way before you've accomplished anything.

I have since moved into the OS/X camp. I really like how I can just plug stuff in and it works. No fuss. Is there a price on that? Of course, ~$100. Just because Linux is "free" doesn't mean it is cheaper than OS/X though. I have come to this realization time and time again.

Once my x86 hardware craps out (or 2.8 kernel decides it hates that too) then I will be done with Linux. I would rather just migrate everything over to Mac. But AutoDESK won't let me, a rant for a different thread I guess.

Ok, rant over.

-jaromski

[jaromski]

A note about Gentoo...



(gentoo user) hey I have an idea! Let's make the install process even longer and more tedious! In addition to troubleshooting, debugging, and just getting your system to play nice with the hardware, you also have to compile everything from scratch! And get this, here is the clincher... it will be totally optimized for your system! And everytime you need it on a different machine (which incidentally may have a different flavor hardware) you get to recompile again! Sweet! You will save _sooo many_ cycles man, I promise!

Ok, sorry I am being an asshole. In case you haven't gathered by now, it doesn't really strike me as a bright idea. (not to say it isn't a bright idea, just not from my vantage point) Get *BSD if you really want something impressive to do that ****...

That whole trade-off between modularity and performance I guess. But with modern hardware getting increasingly faster (and cheaper), I think the fulcrum has definately changed position. You get way more leverage with modularity than shaving a few cycles off. For most users, a few cycles here and there don't really amount to much. Now if you are running some type of enterprise system it might be worth it. But again I think there the issue of support would be much more critical for an enterprise. If this breaks, who can I call up and start bitching at? The cycles bit is irrelevant here too.

Cycles are cheap now. That's my bit.

-jaromski

[jaromski]

www.DamnSmallLinux.org (http://www.DamnSmallLinux.org) is a great, small, x86 Linux Distro... and it is USB flash drive installable! How cool!

Yeah I have heard really great things about this distro...this is where Linux needs to go! Sorry I have ranted so much on this thread, I am all out of gusto.

-jaromski

[mkrishnan]

Can I please ask a question, sort of back in the OP's question direction? Is there a way to run PPC Linux inside a VM on top of MacOS, in the way Mac-On-Linux (http://www.maconlinux.org/) lets you run MacOS in a VM on top of PPC Linux? In this way, one could run one of the PPC linux distros without actually leaving MacOS... :) Would be better yet than Bochs....