free InDesign 2.0 with PowerMac purchase!

[dongmin]

The promotion (http://www.apple.com/promo/designfreely/) runs until Dec. 31.

A great deal if you get one of the lower-end PowerMacs. InDesign 2.0 goes for $700 retail.

Do you think Steve is trying to light a fire under Quark's belly?

"Do OS X or die!"

[Moxiemike]

I also think steve, and the apple braintrust is able to see things in terms of "the future" than most others.

Face it. It's time the design industry stop being *****-footed troglodytes and realize that, yes, indeed, ID combined with OS X on a new PowerMac will increase your productivity.

And it's similar enough to Quark that one could EASILY adapt. Hell, I did it after using Quark for almost 6 years.

Now? I'm all for Quark dying a quick, albeit painful death.

Here's to apple "thinking different!"

Here here ID2!

[sparkleytone]

all i have to say is ... wow.

[Moxiemike]

it's also a very compelling reason for those who haven't seen the ID light.

That said, this might have a lot to do with Adobe....

Now, apple could take a lesson from Adobe and figure out a way to offer Office V.X with the machines.

Strike a deal with MS to buy, who knows, 10k lisences of Office. And then run a switch ad (janie? are you there? Save Xmas for me!) that tacks on a "buy a powermac from the apple store between now and x.x.02 and receive a free copy of MS Office.

maybe Make it a switcher thing-- if you switch, free office.

Watch the macs fly off the shelves.

[iGav]

Originally posted by Moxiemike
I also think steve, and the apple braintrust is able to see things in terms of "the future" than most others.

Face it. It's time the design industry stop being *****-footed troglodytes and realize that, yes, indeed, ID combined with OS X on a new PowerMac will increase your productivity.

And it's similar enough to Quark that one could EASILY adapt. Hell, I did it after using Quark for almost 6 years.

Now? I'm all for Quark dying a quick, albeit painful death.

Here's to apple "thinking different!"

Here here ID2!

Totally..... I used Quark for years before I got my mitts on Indesign...... Quark is just so early 90's...... :p :p

[Moxiemike]

Originally posted by iGAV


Totally..... I used Quark for years before I got my mitts on Indesign...... Quark is just so early 90's...... :p :p

Exactly. Although there are some things i like from the early nineties (slowdive. my bloody valentine. lush) there things I hate, namely Quark, which feels like it was designed in the lates 70s

All i have to say is logo in Illustrator copy and paste to ID no need for eps files anymo!

[iGav]

Originally posted by Moxiemike


Exactly. Although there are some things i like from the early nineties (slowdive. my bloody valentine. lush) there things I hate, namely Quark, which feels like it was designed in the lates 70s

All i have to say is logo in Illustrator copy and paste to ID no need for eps files anymo!

Ahh yeah.... the early 90's was a particularly fine vintage for some things...... (like St Etienne, Ride, Belly etc :D ) but Quark certainly isn't one of them....... heh heh!!

Certainly the whole cut and paste thing in Indesign is much more intuitive, Quark really is clunky in comparison..... :)

[Moxiemike]

Originally posted by iGAV


Ahh yeah.... the early 90's was a particularly fine vintage for some things...... (like St Etienne, Ride, Belly etc :D ) but Quark certainly isn't one of them....... heh heh!!

Certainly the whole cut and paste thing in Indesign is much more intuitive, Quark really is clunky in comparison..... :)

Ah! Ride. Vapour Trail was an early nineties highlight. :D

I feel you on Quark. I do some work for an ad agency as a freelancer and they swear by Qaurk. So I have it in my machine (again. i keep trying to delete it)

It feels soooooooooo clunky. Like driving a low end car.

Though those guys are thinking of switiching to ID soon. hope they do-- and this might be the spur.

Think that maybe Quarks "OSX version by Xmas" plan is down the tubes, hence this giveaway coupled with the impending "no boot into 9" thing??

[loveshismac]

O man I hate Quark
they must have gotten their interface design team from IBM's lotus notes.
Plus 5 years before a major update and it still looks like the early 90's.

I was formely trained for Quark, and since their was no compition until now, what else did u use?

Once i used ID2, man it was like heaven. It imports quark files, works seamless with Photoshop and Illustrator, and has transparency, etc....

I mean no more psd files tiff files and eps's.

Just one psd, one illustrator file.

Absolutly love it

heers to the slow agonizing death of Quark

[dongmin]

Hey didn't the whole grunge thing happen in the early 90s?

Quark has had one of the least intuitive user interfaces in the history of Mac apps, along with FormZ and a few others.

Yes, when it first came out, it was a godsend, especially compared to Pagemaker. But it's been a decade since. Times change. Unfortunately Quark hasn't.

[Moxiemike]

Originally posted by loveshismac
O man I hate Quark
they must have gotten their interface design team from IBM's lotus notes.
Plus 5 years before a major update and it still looks like the early 90's.

I was formely trained for Quark, and since their was no compition until now, what else did u use?

Once i used ID2, man it was like heaven. It imports quark files, works seamless with Photoshop and Illustrator, and has transparency, etc....

I mean no more psd files tiff files and eps's.

Just one psd, one illustrator file.

Absolutly love it

heers to the slow agonizing death of Quark

and it fits seemlessly with OSX's pdf integration, and as such, makes a PDF workflow a snap. I've submitted press-quality ads frmo ID at least 5 times this week, with no problems

It's great. And I control what they look like.

[solvs]

Originally posted by iGAV
Ahh yeah.... the early 90's was a particularly fine vintage for some things...... (like St Etienne, Ride, Belly etc.

Belly... cool. When my friend's Mom got an iMac (after a lot of convincing, she's very happy BTW), it came with a bunch of MP3s. One of them was Bellys "Feed the Tree". Nice.

Anyway, yeah Quark sux. I like InDesign, but I'm still using 1.5. Still kicks Quarks ***. Can't wait for ID 2.

[Moxiemike]

Originally posted by solvs


Belly... cool. When my friend's Mom got an iMac (after a lot of convincing, she's very happy BTW), it came with a bunch of MP3s. One of them was Bellys "Feed the Tree". Nice.

Anyway, yeah Quark sux. I like InDesign, but I'm still using 1.5. Still kicks Quarks ***. Can't wait for ID 2.

I think ID 1.5 was a very sufficient program. 1.0 obviously was a bit green. but 1.5 and 1.52 really corrected alot of problems.

It's amazing how mature 2.0, and how mature ID is on the whole, when you consider it hasn't been out for that long.

I really think some hacker at Adobe has a mail forwarding system working, taking all of the customer suggestions from Quark and sending it to Adobe HQ.

Hence ID. Obviously Quark wasn't, hasn't and will never listen.

Cheers to a slow and painful death for Quark!

I got to see Belly for free here in 1994, and was right up in front of Tanya Donnelly. Darn is she hot!

[solvs]

Originally posted by Moxiemike


I think ID 1.5 was a very sufficient program. 1.0 obviously was a bit green. but 1.5 and 1.52 really corrected alot of problems.

It's amazing how mature 2.0, and how mature ID is on the whole, when you consider it hasn't been out for that long.

I really think some hacker at Adobe has a mail forwarding system working, taking all of the customer suggestions from Quark and sending it to Adobe HQ.

Hence ID. Obviously Quark wasn't, hasn't and will never listen.

Cheers to a slow and painful death for Quark!

I got to see Belly for free here in 1994, and was right up in front of Tanya Donnelly. Darn is she hot!

I envy you.

I was going to go see Julianna Hatfield, but something happened and I wound up not going. They did a Kick*** remake of the "Josie and the PussyCats" theme song together.

Oh yeah, Quark still sux.

[creativeczar]

I used to use Quark (five years) and then switched to InDesign two years ago. I have never looked back. Does anyone know a designer or art director who went back to Quark? Price and printers are the only two stumbling blocks. Apple knocked down one, now we need to give free copies to printers so they can find out what we've known for years.:)

[ericb88]

If i buy a powermac from like macmall or something do i get indesign?

[szark]

Originally posted by ericb88
If i buy a powermac from like macmall or something do i get indesign?

From the mail-in coupon:

Apple products must be purchased from an Apple retail facility or a participating authorized Apple reseller located in the
50 United States or District of Columbia.•QUALIFYING PRODUCTS:All Apple Power Mac G4 computers.•This offer is not valid with the purchase of used,refurbished,or demonstration equipment.

So as long as they are a participating reseller, it should work. You just have to follow the instructions and wait 6-8 weeks...:rolleyes:

[daRAT]

*sigh* I wish it was Photoshop, or even Painter, to much to ask for both? ;]

ID2 is nothing I would use...altho i could put it on eBay ...

[mdurg]

this is good news and bad news. the good news is obvious... The bad news is that I got my new G4 yesterday. Off to the Apple site to see if I qualify...

[PretendPCuser]

Quark is in the belly of the beast. I haven't used ID (Yet) but i do have to say, Quark does seem a little long in the tooth, on it's last legs for years. Now to scrounge up all the loose change to see if i can sport a new G4...

[Malus120]

heh heh i have a differant name for this its called:
SELL IT ON EBAY AND GET A NICE REBATE ON MY NEW G4!!!! :D :D :D

[MacFocus]

Does anyone know if the promotion is also available in Europe?
Would be nice since I'm going to order 3 PowerMacs this week :)

[greenplasticcup]

You know it looks like that potentially my office could buy an older g4 that's still new in the box (like say a dual 800 or a 933) and get the free ID too as long as I got it from an official apple reseller, no?

[iGav]

Originally posted by solvs


I envy you.

I was going to go see Julianna Hatfield, but something happened and I wound up not going. They did a Kick*** remake of the "Josie and the PussyCats" theme song together.

Oh yeah, Quark still sux.

Juliana Hatfield totally rules live..... I saw the Juliana Hatfield Three support Teenage Fanclub in the early 90's...... i'm still waiting for her to come touring again over to these shores........ It's unlikely she will though, because she doesn't sell records over here, and thus it just isn't viable to tour.....

Tanya Donelly is also a highly underated artist........ she's quite the fox as well...... Belly were just so good live though...... I really miss that kind of bubblegum power pop that they used to knock out...... great vibe live......

Oh yeah, Quark still sux.

[iGav]

Originally posted by creativeczar
I used to use Quark (five years) and then switched to InDesign two years ago. I have never looked back. Does anyone know a designer or art director who went back to Quark? Price and printers are the only two stumbling blocks. Apple knocked down one, now we need to give free copies to printers so they can find out what we've known for years.:)

Good point.... everyone I know that has dropped Quark for Indesign has never even spoken of Quark again......:p

The problem seems to be a certain subset of designers and editors that refuse to even consider dropping Quark, mainly because of the shortcuts, and knowing Quark inside out...... (it probably took them 6 years to learn it as well.... heh heh) they're quite happy to continue using it, and see no need to change, even though Indesign would improve their productivity and arguably their creativity 2 fold..... they just seem unwilling to do that.......

[Wry Cooter]

Originally posted by Moxiemike


Face it. It's time the design industry stop being *****-footed troglodytes and realize that, yes, indeed, ID combined with OS X on a new PowerMac will increase your productivity.



Merely keep in mind some of the basis for the *****-footed troglodysm. Direct to press rips in the seven figure range (burning postscript directly to a printing presses plates ain't the same as buying a new inkjet) , image setters in the six figure range, archives of editorial and advertising material that need the old system, and a workflow dependant on custom plug-ins that may not be able to be rewritten for several reasons in todays economic climate. It's easy to rebut that some of the above will not be directly affected, but every bump in the status quo creates a ripple that might grow out of hand.

InDesign by itself cannot solve all of these problems, merely because it is OS X compatible.

[Moxiemike]

Originally posted by Wry Cooter


Merely keep in mind some of the basis for the *****-footed troglodysm. Direct to press rips in the seven figure range (burning postscript directly to a printing presses plates ain't the same as buying a new inkjet) , image setters in the six figure range, archives of editorial and advertising material that need the old system, and a workflow dependant on custom plug-ins that may not be able to be rewritten for several reasons in todays economic climate. It's easy to rebut that some of the above will not be directly affected, but every bump in the status quo creates a ripple that might grow out of hand.

InDesign by itself cannot solve all of these problems, merely because it is OS X compatible.


ever heard of PDF workflow? I don't understand where you can get off making dangerous statements that seems to inexplicably link Quark to the d-2-p presses and imagesetters.

Archives of editorial/ad material? ID does a DAMN good conversion. 98% on complex documents, simple docs, 100%.

I converted a 40+ page catalgoue from a Quark file to ID, did all the redesigning, floated in new pics, made some new graphic work and didn't need a gajillion EPS files, produced one high-res PDF file, and emailed it to my printer. It worked flawlessly. They can then take the PDF and make their press sheet from it. Do their little offset printer thing. And yes, I send these to people who use new direct-to-plate machines, old school offset machines, 2 color, 4 color, 6 color and 10 color presses AND even a good ol' color copier.

Have never had a postscript problem with ID, baby. Quark? Seems to crash their machines thrice daily.

On the plug-in issue, let's face it. Quark should have 99% of the functionality that you have to pruchase via plug-ins. I mean, come on! $700 for a program, then you have to shell out cash to make the f*ckin' pasteboard bigger????

Or god forbid you typeset in, say, german. You then have to pay $1499 or whatever for Quark Passport. ID? Has ALL the functionality one could need built right in (i.e. no plugins), works seemlessly with a PDF workflow, making it supremely compatible, has international dictionaries (for those big-time print jobs that I often get where I have to typeset in german, spanish, italian, etc. This opposed to the ink-jet ones you seem to think i work on) , and costs about $700 less, after buying plug-ins to match ID for fucntionality and the "passport" version of Quark.

Oh. But i can fo html in Quark. That's such a useful feature of 5. I'm pissed I wasted my cash on Dreamweaver.....

[dschlow]

I just got my Dual gig last week. What a buzz kill. I would have waited had I known they were offering ID2. Anyone know if they'll honor it?

[Moxiemike]

Originally posted by dschlow
I just got my Dual gig last week. What a buzz kill. I would have waited had I known they were offering ID2. Anyone know if they'll honor it?

they might. when i bought my dual gig, a few days later they announced the 300 dollar rebate.

I got compusa to reissue my receipt and blammo, 300 smackers richer. (or 2700 poorer as opposed to 3000 but i digress)

Did you buy from chumpusa or a reseller? or direct through apple? I'm sure they'll probably be cool, if you stink it up enough

m

[Snowy_River]

I'm surprised that no one has put forward a guess about the meaning of this. We have Jobs saying that new PowerMacs after Jan 1 will not support booting into MacOS 9 anymore, and now we have an offer that really amounts to on the order of $700 off all current PowerMacs that ends on Dec 31. This seems to me to be (possibly) adding up to a new crop of PowerMacs coming as of the first of the year.

But, then, what do I know? ;)

[Thirteenva]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
I'm surprised that no one has put forward a guess about the meaning of this. We have Jobs saying that new PowerMacs after Jan 1 will not support booting into MacOS 9 anymore, and now we have an offer that really amounts to on the order of $700 off all current PowerMacs that ends on Dec 31. This seems to me to be (possibly) adding up to a new crop of PowerMacs coming as of the first of the year.

But, then, what do I know? ;)

LOL,Well i call your rumor and raise you the rumor on the front page that says no G5 till late 2003. So which is it... ;)

[Moxiemike]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
I'm surprised that no one has put forward a guess about the meaning of this. We have Jobs saying that new PowerMacs after Jan 1 will not support booting into MacOS 9 anymore, and now we have an offer that really amounts to on the order of $700 off all current PowerMacs that ends on Dec 31. This seems to me to be (possibly) adding up to a new crop of PowerMacs coming as of the first of the year.

But, then, what do I know? ;)

My guess is that Quark won't be ready and Jobs and Adobe have struck a deal promotind the best, most extensible, and advanced (not to mention osx native) page layout app out there.

You know? I can see it now: Apple's Left 9 behind. So have we. But what about Quark? Buy Adobe InDesign.....

You know?? It's an evolutionary thing. and no, there won't be any new pmacs until feb at least

[dschlow]

Back to what Wry Crooter was saying...Another problem with switching to indesign, other than printing, is work flow. Part of the reason why so many people in publishing (at least in magazines) are still using Quark is because of QPS and Copy desk. Until Adobe comes up with something that's as realiable (ha) as the system quark has there'll be no mass movement to switch. In fact the co. that I'm working for now, was a test subject. One which failed. Most large publishers would love to make the transition to indesign as Adobe offers site licensing, where Quark doesn't. To sum up Indesign is great if your designing at home or have a small staff. It's the better program. But if your trying to produce say a magazine, chances are you won't be using Indesign anytime soon

[Moxiemike]

Originally posted by dschlow
Back to what Wry Crooter was saying...Another problem with switching to indesign, other than printing, is work flow. Part of the reason why so many people in publishing (at least in magazines) are still using Quark is because of QPS and Copy desk. Until Adobe comes up with something that's as realiable (ha) as the system quark has there'll be no mass movement to switch. In fact the co. that I'm working for now, was a test subject. One which failed. Most large publishers would love to make the transition to indesign as Adobe offers site licensing, where Quark doesn't. To sum up Indesign is great if your designing at home or have a small staff. It's the better program. But if your trying to produce say a magazine, chances are you won't be using Indesign anytime soon

Now sure, there might be workflow issues with magazine and large publishing but there is NO problem whatsoever with printing at commerical presses.

I don't know where this myth has arrived from, but it's just not true. I'm in po-dunky pittsburgh, pa and man, everyone has ID, most print shops have "ID Files accepted here"

[dschlow]

Originally posted by Moxiemike


Now sure, there might be workflow issues with magazine and large publishing but there is NO problem whatsoever with printing at commerical presses.

I don't know where this myth has arrived from, but it's just not true. I'm in po-dunky pittsburgh, pa and man, everyone has ID, most print shops have "ID Files accepted here"

What Qps/copy desk allows you to do is have the editors write in a seperate program (copy desk) so they don't f-up your nice layouts. The two work together, i.e. the writers work in copy desk and the text appears in your quark layout. Without them ever having access to move shapes/objects around. The process really speeds things up, as you can work on the layout while they're writing. It's not a matter of being able to accept files or not.

[Moxiemike]

Originally posted by dschlow


What Qps/copy desk allows you to do is have the editors write in a seperate program (copy desk) so they don't f-up your nice layouts. The two work together, i.e. the writers work in copy desk and the text appears in your quark layout. Without them ever having access to move shapes/objects around. The process really speeds things up, as you can work on the layout while they're writing. It's not a matter of being able to accept files or not.

I know how workflow works. I was saying that there's this myth about printing problems with ID that i've never experienced.

And i'm done probably 75 jobs in ID this year.

never a problem.

[Wry Cooter]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
I'm surprised that no one has put forward a guess about the meaning of this.

Actually, I think the following has been touched upon several times in this thread. It is rather obviously implicit.



We have Jobs saying that new PowerMacs after Jan 1 will not support booting into MacOS 9 anymore, and now we have an offer that really amounts to on the order of $700 off all current PowerMacs that ends on Dec 31. This seems to me to be (possibly) adding up to a new crop of PowerMacs coming as of the first of the year.



Or it could mean very well that they know one of the only demographics that would or should be buying the present pro machines they have sitting in their warehouses are all waiting for the real upgrade, and this is about the only incentive they have to offer to get anyone to bite- telling them that if you need a dual boot machine, you better buy now, or if you need a 700 buck program you were going to buy but have not yet, you better buy now.

You could help them clear their warehouses out of some Cinema Displays as well. There might be a cheaper one once those are gone, but you need one NOW right? Five Hundred Buck rebate if you buy NOW. Anyone need a Maya/Shake bundle?

It's courtesy of Adobe as well, of course. They realize a lot of people are still waiting for Quark to switch to OS X. They haven't exactly been sitting on their thumbs waiting for people to buy InDesign-- the first version out the door disappointed enough that they have not looked again, and adobe has been practically giving away every update since. I remember at least two months of being bopped in the face with an inDesign pop-up ad offering very enticing terms. As good as it is, do you still think the urge to switch to ID will be nearly as strong once Quark is OS X ready?

[macDesigner]

Originally posted by dschlow
Part of the reason why so many people in publishing (at least in magazines) are still using Quark is because of QPS and Copy desk. Until Adobe comes up with something that's as realiable (ha) as the system quark has there'll be no mass movement to switch.

Have you seen Adobe InCopy?
<http://www.adobe.com/products/incopy/main.html>