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ghileman
Apr 25, 2011, 06:43 PM
What can be said about the upcoming Sandy Bridge Air vs. the rumored future Ivy Bridge Air on the following topics:

1. Timing and Probability: With the likelihood of Sandy Bridge/Thunderbolt/Lion packed Air appearing sometime near June 2011 at I'm guessing 90+%, what is the likelihood that we'll a) see an Ivy Bridge Air at some point, and b when? (e.g., around or after CES 2012)?

2. Graphics: how much of a graphics improvement will Ivy Bridge bring over Sandy Bridge, which apparently will be a noticeable graphics step back from the Nvidia chip in the current Air, particularly on gaming.

3. Heat: Sandy Bridge apparently runs hot (or at least the full-voltage chips do). Do low-voltage Sandy Bridge chips completely solve the heat/fan concerns for the Air? How big of a performance difference is there between Low-voltage and high-voltage Sandy Bridge? (Note: I have a Rev. B Air and if I'm going to upgrade one of my absolute requirements is that my next Air run A LOT cooler and much reduced fan action.)

4. Battery: I've read elsewhere, from the reputable Hellhammer I believe, speculation that Sandy should yield about a 1-hour boost in battery life over the current C2D. Can we expect further improvements from Ivy? How much?

5. Other Performance: What other general or specific performance benefits can we expect from Ivy over Sandy?



animatedude
Apr 25, 2011, 06:54 PM
******* sake! please don;t start this now...go eat your lunch or do your laundry the Sandy Bridge Air hasn't even been released! you guys are too much...you need to get out more

ghileman
Apr 25, 2011, 07:03 PM
******* sake! please don;t start this now...go eat your lunch or do your laundry the Sandy Bridge Air hasn't even been released! you guys are too much...you need to get out more

and here I thought I was keeping speculation reasonable by not also asking about the perhaps slobber-worthy future Haswell Air? ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haswell_(microarchitecture)

kjjnk
Apr 25, 2011, 07:07 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Bridge#Ivy_Bridge

Anything else that isn't on that page will just be random speculation.

ghileman
Apr 25, 2011, 07:12 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Bridge#Ivy_Bridge

Anything else that isn't on that page will just be random speculation.

During the Intel Developer Forum (IDF) on September 13, 2010, Intel's CEO Paul Otellini mentioned that Ivy Bridge processors may be introduced as early as in the second half of 2011.[55] According to early roadmap details, Intel is estimating that Ivy Bridge will offer a 20 percent CPU performance advantage over Sandy Bridge.[56]

On the graphics side, there will be support for DirectX 11 and OpenCL 1.1, and Intel is targeting a 30 percent graphics performance and 20 percent overall performance boost compared to Sandy Bridge.[56] It seems that Ivy Bridge might get 16 graphics execution units (4 more than Sandy Bridge).[57][58] Ivy Bridge will also support PCI Express 3.0.[59] A new Panther Point chipset, to be released with the Ivy Bridge platform, will offer native USB 3.0 support, while Ivy Bridge chipsets will be backwards compatible with the Sandy Bridge (Cougar point) platform.[60][61]

Intel has completed designing Ivy Bridge processors and is planning to showcase them during Computex Taiwan 2011 in June.[62]

paeza
Apr 25, 2011, 07:15 PM
and here I thought I was keeping speculation reasonable by not also asking about the perhaps slobber-worthy future Haswell Air? ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haswell_(microarchitecture)

I will pass the sandy bridge and ivy bridge macair and wait for the skymont macbook air.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SkyLake_(microarchitecture)#Skymont

ghileman
Apr 25, 2011, 07:17 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Bridge#Ivy_Bridge

Anything else that isn't on that page will just be random speculation.

The Wikipedia info I highlighted above paints some broad strokes on the CPU and graphics performance boost we can expect with Ivy Bridge, but I'd still be interested in hearing any thoughts on heat, battery, and the likelihood that Intel gets IB deployed sometime in the second half of 2011?

kjjnk
Apr 25, 2011, 07:22 PM
The Wikipedia info I highlighted above paints some broad strokes on the CPU and graphics performance boost we can expect with Ivy Bridge, but I'd still be interested in hearing any thoughts on heat, battery, and the likelihood that Intel gets IB deployed sometime in the second half of 2011?

You'll likely have all of those answered at Computex Taiwan 2011 (June) where Intel plans on showing off Ivy Bridge.

calvol
Apr 25, 2011, 07:44 PM
Intel needs to wake up and start dealing before AMD slides in. We should have had an i3/320M combo in this gen MBA, but they got greedy. AMD is winning the graphics war, I'm going to wait and see what they have in a year. Right now MBA is perfect for what it is, but my 13-UMBA C2D works hard to run things like Skype, where as my i5-540M Dell just cruises along.

iRun26.2
Apr 25, 2011, 09:38 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Bridge#Ivy_Bridge

Anything else that isn't on that page will just be random speculation.

Yes, but a lot of us are here to speculate (and that can be rather entertaining).

iRun26.2
Apr 25, 2011, 09:39 PM
During the Intel Developer Forum (IDF) on September 13, 2010, Intel's CEO Paul Otellini mentioned that Ivy Bridge processors may be introduced as early as in the second half of 2011.[55] According to early roadmap details, Intel is estimating that Ivy Bridge will offer a 20 percent CPU performance advantage over Sandy Bridge.[56]

On the graphics side, there will be support for DirectX 11 and OpenCL 1.1, and Intel is targeting a 30 percent graphics performance and 20 percent overall performance boost compared to Sandy Bridge.[56] It seems that Ivy Bridge might get 16 graphics execution units (4 more than Sandy Bridge).[57][58] Ivy Bridge will also support PCI Express 3.0.[59] A new Panther Point chipset, to be released with the Ivy Bridge platform, will offer native USB 3.0 support, while Ivy Bridge chipsets will be backwards compatible with the Sandy Bridge (Cougar point) platform.[60][61]

Intel has completed designing Ivy Bridge processors and is planning to showcase them during Computex Taiwan 2011 in June.[62]

Wow...that is very interesting! (The future of the MBA is exciting...yet I still do truly enjoy the late 2010 11.6" MBA, an excellent design from Apple)

retrorichie
Apr 25, 2011, 09:52 PM
Fast forward to 2056. Stu's grandchildren stop by his house on a crisp fall day, but to their shock and disappointment, they find Stu sitting dead at his horrible-looking, miserable-performing circa 2007 Dell laptop with a desktop full of Internet Explorer pop-ups and a CPU utilized at 100% because of Malware--Windows XP went out of support years ago. Sadly, Stu never bought a MacBook Air because he was perpetually caught in an n+1 waiting cycle, claiming he was waiting for the BEST EVAR performance. Unfortunately for Stu, he failed to grasp the concept of basic utility. Some might call him retarded, but to me, he was just another Macrumors member. Ever the patient consumer.

jvmxtra
Apr 25, 2011, 09:56 PM
Winning!!

retrorichie
Apr 25, 2011, 09:59 PM
Winning!!

I was going to mention the tombstone his family had fashioned from liquidmetal with the backlit writing, but I figured maybe that was taking it a bit too far.

christophermdia
Apr 25, 2011, 10:29 PM
I doubt that if you purchased a MBA you would need anything more powerful than what is currently offered, if so you would have gone with a MBP...portability is one thing, but if you need power stick with a MBP....Next MBP will undoubtedly come with a redesign and im guessing with the same ssd chips thats in the current MBA's except with a 512 chip added in there.....

christophermdia
Apr 25, 2011, 10:30 PM
by the way too as far as battery life is concerned, my current MBA lasts all day on a charge...more is better yes, but all day is good too

damnyooneek
Apr 26, 2011, 11:28 AM
if you keep waiting there will always be something better around the corner.

Ridley
Apr 26, 2011, 12:51 PM
It depends what part of the wave you like riding. The jump to a whole new architecture is always going to be the biggest gap. I am waiting for SB for that reason.

I am sure there will be people complaining about Ivy bridge saying you might as well wait for the haswell architecture. However Ivy bridge will be the best in that line of chips, the end of the wave if that's what you're into. Its a die shrink of SB with some extra features here and there but the gap between SB and IB is soo much less than the gap between C2D and SB.

TrollToddington
Apr 26, 2011, 03:50 PM
Sandy Bridge Air vs. Ivy Bridge Air - Worth waiting for?Since neither of them exists, your choice is between nothing and nothing. I don't think the question is if SB or IB worths waiting for. It's whether what is available now is worth.

If the present Airs meet the minimum (or, preferably, the recommended) hardware requirements of the software you'd like to run then you're fine with the current models. If not, you've got no other choice but to wait. Your choice is as simple as that.

Psilocybin
Apr 26, 2011, 03:55 PM
Your going to spend your whole life waiting with no CPU

foulmouthedleon
Apr 26, 2011, 04:21 PM
if you keep waiting there will always be something better around the corner.
Amen.

macjonny1
Apr 26, 2011, 04:24 PM
Why do so many people feed these threads? Ridiculous!

iRun26.2
Apr 26, 2011, 04:35 PM
if you keep waiting there will always be something better around the corner.

Many people on this forum (including myself) are 'Mac Book Air enthusiasts', meaning we already own a MBA yet are still excited about what the future holds. We our not necessarily putting off our purchase, we are eagerly looking forward to (and debating) what out next MBA may contain. It is fun to dream! :)

Greg M
Apr 27, 2011, 03:10 PM
I'm glad that I bought the current version. It's plenty fast enough.

One thing to think about is if you'll want to be able to run Snow Leopard or be forced to run Lion. The way it looks right now I may be forced to stick with Snow Leopard (Lion may not support some older programs and drivers) which means that if the new MBA comes out after Lion than I won't be able to use it because it most likely won't run Snow Leopard.

zinka
Apr 27, 2011, 08:57 PM
C2D -> SB is 3 generations of processor advances.

SB -> IB is only one generation, and it's a die shrink. That will mean reduced power, but not a whole lot of speed increase.

macaddict3
Apr 28, 2011, 10:02 AM
It depends if you use ur air as a secondary mac than there is no point of waiting because u dont need a strong processor. If that is your main and only computer, I suggest you should wait for sandy bridge maybe.

Bye Bye Baby
Apr 28, 2011, 10:29 AM
******* sake! please don;t start this now...go eat your lunch or do your laundry the Sandy Bridge Air hasn't even been released! you guys are too much...you need to get out more

Dude seriously you need to calm down. This guy is speculating on a forum called Macrumors not Mac Gospel. Sheesh! Just ignore it if you don't like it.

Greg M
Apr 28, 2011, 07:18 PM
It depends if you use ur air as a secondary mac than there is no point of waiting because u dont need a strong processor. If that is your main and only computer, I suggest you should wait for sandy bridge maybe.

I use mine as my only computer with no problems at all. I wish it had FW800 because USB is SOOOOOOO slooooow!

CorvetteZR1
Apr 28, 2011, 10:51 PM
******* sake! please don;t start this now...go eat your lunch or do your laundry the Sandy Bridge Air hasn't even been released! you guys are too much...you need to get out more

I literally had to log on just to comment on how ridiculous your post is. This is a FORUM for discussion. If you don't like the topic, simply don't read it. Period. The end.

Capt Underpants
Apr 28, 2011, 10:57 PM
I'm waiting until the 13" Macbook Air gets a quad core processor. When that happens -- whether it be Ivy Bridge or later -- I will feel like it's worth the upgrade from my current computer.

2IS
Apr 28, 2011, 11:32 PM
C2D -> SB is 3 generations of processor advances.

SB -> IB is only one generation, and it's a die shrink. That will mean reduced power, but not a whole lot of speed increase.

IB is said to have a significantly more powerful IGP then SB though.

fyrefly
Apr 28, 2011, 11:43 PM
IB is said to have a significantly more powerful IGP then SB though.

"Significant"? Really? Everything I've read says IB graphics will be about 20% faster than SB. Which is about as fast as SB is from Arrandale, is it not?

I love how we're now saying "Ivy Bridge will be the answer", after last year at this time cooing about how "Sandy Bridge will be the answer".

When IB gets here, there'll still be people whining about how IB isn't "faster than the 320m at X benchmark and I can still get 2 fps more with my 320m and C2D".

Some people will never be happy with Intel IGPs. The problem is this: with a thin-and-light like the MBA, there have to be some compromises. And the IGP is where Apple's gonna have to compromise at some point.

Twe Foju
Apr 28, 2011, 11:56 PM
IB is said to have a significantly more powerful IGP then SB though.
yeah, dx11
it's a very nice jump from dx10, but still, a DX11 IGP, i still have no idea how good it will be

( of course it will still suck compared to dedicated from Nvidia / AMD dx11 chip )

i just hope that Intel finally got what it takes to create a good gpu

TrollToddington
Apr 29, 2011, 09:18 AM
Hmmmm just read Anand's review on 2010 MBA. He says that, basically,
The new Airs are slow, they are great for writing and browsing the web (sort of like fast iPads) but they are noticeably slower than the Pro lineup everywhere else.
Furthermore,
While itís possible to do work like photo editing on the 11-inch MacBook Air, itís not very pleasant. If youíve got no other computer around you can do it, but if youíve got access to anything faster youíll be a lot more productive.

I realized this when I switched to the 13-inch machine. The 33% higher clocked CPU makes a big difference. Everything pops up quicker, the editing process takes a lot less time and the screen is just a good enough size/resolution where you donít have to do a ton of zooming to prepare web presentable photos.In short, his review left me thinking that the present MBAs are too expensive for what they can do. Sure, if I had to pick one of the current MBA lineup, I'd pick the base 13" with 4GB RAM. Anything less would be a huge compromise for my needs.

2IS
Apr 29, 2011, 09:27 AM
"Significant"? Really? Everything I've read says IB graphics will be about 20% faster than SB. Which is about as fast as SB is from Arrandale, is it not?

If the market drops or soars 20% is it not significant? If you earn 20% less in 2011 than you did in 2010 is that not significant? Yes, I'd say 20% is quite significant actually.

Greg M
Apr 29, 2011, 09:39 AM
If the market drops or soars 20% is it not significant? If you earn 20% less in 2011 than you did in 2010 is that not significant? Yes, I'd say 20% is quite significant actually.

VERY poor analogies. Even the slower computers today are plenty fast enough for most people. A 20% increase in speed for a computer is hardly noticeable in everyday use. Waiting for the next version simply based on speed is nonsense. Now if you're waiting because you need a new feature than that's a different story. A speed bump, even 20%, isn't worth waiting for.

TrollToddington
Apr 29, 2011, 09:54 AM
VERY poor analogies. Even the slower computers today are plenty fast enough for most people. A 20% increase in speed for a computer is hardly noticeable in everyday use.If your everyday use included rendering movies and working with photos or large music files you'd certainly notice the 20% increase in speed.

But even if it didn't, 20% increase in speed is quite tangible.

MSlaw
Apr 29, 2011, 09:55 AM
Fast forward to 2056. Stu's grandchildren stop by his house on a crisp fall day, but to their shock and disappointment, they find Stu sitting dead at his horrible-looking, miserable-performing circa 2007 Dell laptop with a desktop full of Internet Explorer pop-ups and a CPU utilized at 100% because of Malware--Windows XP went out of support years ago. Sadly, Stu never bought a MacBook Air because he was perpetually caught in an n+1 waiting cycle, claiming he was waiting for the BEST EVAR performance. Unfortunately for Stu, he failed to grasp the concept of basic utility. Some might call him retarded, but to me, he was just another Macrumors member. Ever the patient consumer.

The best **** i've ever read on a forum. lol

Lord Appleseed
Apr 29, 2011, 10:01 AM
If the market drops or soars 20% is it not significant? If you earn 20% less in 2011 than you did in 2010 is that not significant? Yes, I'd say 20% is quite significant actually.
If you have a car with 240PS, but you only need up to 150 does it matter then if you have 200 or 240? No, except if you are a car fan. Same with computers.

As for money: It DOES matter if you have 20% more income because its not a latent gain we are talking about then,...as opposed to a CPU speed gain which is very well mostly latent, especially since we are talking about MB Air here.
In general you are right, 20% can be quite substantial, but when you only need 50% power of 100% then it doesn't matter if you can have 120% too.

2IS
Apr 29, 2011, 11:07 AM
If you have a car with 240PS, but you only need up to 150 does it matter then if you have 200 or 240? No, except if you are a car fan. Same with computers.

As for money: It DOES matter if you have 20% more income because its not a latent gain we are talking about then,...as opposed to a CPU speed gain which is very well mostly latent, especially since we are talking about MB Air here.
In general you are right, 20% can be quite substantial, but when you only need 50% power of 100% then it doesn't matter if you can have 120% too.

Obviously if you aren't going to use the extra power it won't be noticable. I don't see anyone arguing that. I'm not even suggesting that people should wait, merely pointing out the advantages that IB is going to bring. To wait or not to wait is going to be a personal choice. For people who want to fire up an ocassional game on the MBA, 20% can be substantial, allowing higher FPS or higher IQ at the same FPS.

fyrefly
Apr 29, 2011, 12:20 PM
If the market drops or soars 20% is it not significant? If you earn 20% less in 2011 than you did in 2010 is that not significant? Yes, I'd say 20% is quite significant actually.

Obviously if you aren't going to use the extra power it won't be noticable. I don't see anyone arguing that. I'm not even suggesting that people should wait, merely pointing out the advantages that IB is going to bring. To wait or not to wait is going to be a personal choice. For people who want to fire up an ocassional game on the MBA, 20% can be substantial, allowing higher FPS or higher IQ at the same FPS.

My argument was that the SB IGP is already 20% faster than the Arrandale IGP. And people here are still complaining about the SB IGP. So if the IB IGP is 20% faster than SB, "significant" is in the eye of the beholder.

If LV SB can only score a 2500 on 3DMark06, and the 320m can score a 5200, then IB will only score a 3000 (2500*1.20) if it's "20% faster". I'd say that, at least IMHO, dropping from 5000 --> 2500 or dropping from 5000 --> 3000 isn't that significant.

You also mention Higher FPS, but the SB IGP gets such mediocre FPS to being with - 20% gain, IMHO doesn't become "significant". It doesn't even get one to "playable". For example: (and these figures are all pulled out of nowhere 'cause I can't find anything on the i5-2537's FPS gaming performance).

If, say one gets 14fps on COD with the SB LV IGP. 20% performance increase in IB would bump it up to ~17fps. Still unplayable, by many people's standards. This is why I say that (again, IMHO) it's not "significant".

Even if the SB IGP could hit 24fps ("playable")... Then the 20% increase would new you ~28.8fps. I guess that's "better"... but would the end-user notice a whole lot of difference with 4 more fps? I'm not a gamer, so I have no idea.

Again, this is all theoretical stuff we're talking about here. IB hasn't even been announced, there's no ship date, and there's no benchmarks. Just theory and speculation.

Twe Foju
Apr 29, 2011, 12:35 PM
I guess that's "better"... but would the end-user notice a whole lot of difference with 4 more fps? I'm not a gamer, so I have no idea.


actually yes, every fps count is a blessings for us, gamers :p

drsox
Apr 29, 2011, 12:50 PM
No-one seems to have an opinion on the OP's question #3 :

3. Heat: Sandy Bridge apparently runs hot (or at least the full-voltage chips do). Do low-voltage Sandy Bridge chips completely solve the heat/fan concerns for the Air? How big of a performance difference is there between Low-voltage and high-voltage Sandy Bridge? (Note: I have a Rev. B Air and if I'm going to upgrade one of my absolute requirements is that my next Air run A LOT cooler and much reduced fan action.)

This is the only one that interests me as a very very quiet MacBook is my primary objective.
That's why I'm waiting till the next version of MBA is out.

applefanDrew
Apr 29, 2011, 01:35 PM
Since neither of them exists, your choice is between nothing and nothing. I don't think the question is if SB or IB worths waiting for. It's whether what is available now is worth.

If the present Airs meet the minimum (or, preferably, the recommended) hardware requirements of the software you'd like to run then you're fine with the current models. If not, you've got no other choice but to wait. Your choice is as simple as that.

They exist. We just can't buy them. Apple isn't stupid, they're at least testing the things. They may decide, "eh...we'll forget the Air and just ride Core 2 duos" but saying they don't exist is dumb. Things exist that the general public never knows about. Like the iPad was created (i.e. existed, probably a lot different than it is now) in 2004....it was 2010 before we ever saw it.

Hellhammer
Apr 29, 2011, 02:12 PM
"Significant"? Really? Everything I've read says IB graphics will be about 20% faster than SB. Which is about as fast as SB is from Arrandale, is it not?

Ivy Bridge IGP will have 16 EUs which in raw numbers is 33% more than the 12 EUs found in Intel HD 3000. If the clock speeds stay the same, it could be around 30-40% faster than the SB IGP.

Arrandale IGP to SB IGP was more like a 100% jump.

I love how we're now saying "Ivy Bridge will be the answer", after last year at this time cooing about how "Sandy Bridge will be the answer".

When IB gets here, there'll still be people whining about how IB isn't "faster than the 320m at X benchmark and I can still get 2 fps more with my 320m and C2D".

Some people will never be happy with Intel IGPs. The problem is this: with a thin-and-light like the MBA, there have to be some compromises. And the IGP is where Apple's gonna have to compromise at some point.

I couldn't agree more. Some people make IB sound like it's something revolutionary, even though it is just 32nm to 22nm die shrink. I bet we all would prefer SB + NVIDIA IGP combo but I'm also sure that every one of us knows that it is impossible. Intel HD 3000 isn't great, especially in ULV/LV chips but I don't see many other options.

yeah, dx11
it's a very nice jump from dx10, but still, a DX11 IGP, i still have no idea how good it will be

OS X does not support DirectX so DX10 vs DX11 is irrelevant.

No-one seems to have an opinion on the OP's question #3 :

3. Heat: Sandy Bridge apparently runs hot (or at least the full-voltage chips do). Do low-voltage Sandy Bridge chips completely solve the heat/fan concerns for the Air? How big of a performance difference is there between Low-voltage and high-voltage Sandy Bridge? (Note: I have a Rev. B Air and if I'm going to upgrade one of my absolute requirements is that my next Air run A LOT cooler and much reduced fan action.)

This is the only one that interests me as a very very quiet MacBook is my primary objective.
That's why I'm waiting till the next version of MBA is out.

Current lineup:
13": 17W SL9400/SL9600 + 12W 320M* = 29W
11": 10W SU9400/SU9600 + 12W 320M* = 22W

Sandy Bridge lineup:
13": 25W i7-2629M/i7-2649M + 3.9W HM65 = 28.9W
11": 17W i5-2537M/i7-2657M + 3.9W HM65 = 20.9W

*The actual TDP of 320M is not known but 9400M had TDP of 12W so I am using that as the TDP. Give or take a watt or two, it won't change anything.

Of course, one issue may be that the heat will be more concentrated on one spot. With current chip design, the heat is divided between two chips. With SB, most of the heat would come from the CPU since the PCH has only 3.9W TDP. However, the die size is also bigger so personally, I don't see this as a big issue. Apple can always improve the cooling by using e.g. better thermal paste.

It is impossible to say anything certain about the heat until the MBAs are out.

neteng101
Apr 29, 2011, 02:29 PM
Some people make IB sound like it's something revolutionary, even though it is just 32nm to 22nm die shrink. I bet we all would prefer SB + NVIDIA IGP combo but I'm also sure that every one of us knows that it is impossible. Intel HD 3000 isn't great, especially in ULV/LV chips but I don't see many other options.

Reduced heat/power consumption should be possible from the die shrink, and the 20% increase in GPU power from SB to IB could be the difference that allows the IB version to achieve parity/slight improvement over the 320m.

I think SB is a pass as its not really much of an upgrade on the MBA for current owners, but IB might be worthwhile as an upgrade for some... especially if there's USB 3.0 support now that its in Intel's plans, and there will be more Thunderbolt options out by them too.

Anyone needing an MBA today can get one - don't see much reason to wait for SB other than Thunderbolt which is still too new to be of much use.

ritmomundo
Apr 29, 2011, 02:39 PM
What can be said about the upcoming Sandy Bridge Air vs. the rumored future Ivy Bridge Air on the following topics:

1. Timing and Probability: With the likelihood of Sandy Bridge/Thunderbolt/Lion packed Air appearing sometime near June 2011 at I'm guessing 90+%, what is the likelihood that we'll a) see an Ivy Bridge Air at some point, and b when? (e.g., around or after CES 2012)?

2. Graphics: how much of a graphics improvement will Ivy Bridge bring over Sandy Bridge, which apparently will be a noticeable graphics step back from the Nvidia chip in the current Air, particularly on gaming.

3. Heat: Sandy Bridge apparently runs hot (or at least the full-voltage chips do). Do low-voltage Sandy Bridge chips completely solve the heat/fan concerns for the Air? How big of a performance difference is there between Low-voltage and high-voltage Sandy Bridge? (Note: I have a Rev. B Air and if I'm going to upgrade one of my absolute requirements is that my next Air run A LOT cooler and much reduced fan action.)

4. Battery: I've read elsewhere, from the reputable Hellhammer I believe, speculation that Sandy should yield about a 1-hour boost in battery life over the current C2D. Can we expect further improvements from Ivy? How much?

5. Other Performance: What other general or specific performance benefits can we expect from Ivy over Sandy?

I recommend that you wait. Either until the best tech is announced, that cannot be topped, or until you can't wait any longer and you feel like you're going to explode if you don't buy it. If you buy whatever is out now, or coming soon, you will go into severe shock and/or depression when the new one comes out. :)

calvol
Apr 29, 2011, 02:39 PM
I assume TDP numbers are for max load, correct? I would like to see the numbers plotted over a range from idle to full load to see if SB has a higher TDP at lower loads.

Hellhammer
Apr 29, 2011, 02:42 PM
Reduced heat/power consumption should be possible from the die shrink, and the 20% increase in GPU power from SB to IB could be the difference that allows the IB version to achieve parity/slight improvement over the 320m.

Usually the TDPs stay the same so Intel can increase the clock speed or add cores in order to improve the performance. SBs are 32nm and have higher TDP than the old 45nm C2Ds (though Northbridge and IGP have moved to the CPU but still).

The last order date for mobile C2Ds is April 29th, which is today. This means, if Apple isn't going to use SB, they must know how many MBAs they are going to sell during the next 10 months at least. The production of mobile C2Ds was ceased back in December so nearly 6 months ago. How many chips Intel has in their warehouses? IMO, it makes no sense for Apple to play the Russian Roulette and wait for IB. What if Apple runs out of C2Ds in November? That means they wouldn't be able to sell a single MBA for months. That does not sound like something that a multi-billion dollar company would do, especially when they have a good, viable option called Sandy Bridge.

Nothing stops Apple from using both, SB and IB. If Apple uses SB, it doesn't mean that they will be skipping IB, not at all.

I think SB is a pass as its not really much of an upgrade on the MBA for current owners, but IB might be worthwhile as an upgrade for some... especially if there's USB 3.0 support now that its in Intel's plans, and there will be more Thunderbolt options out by them too.

Owners of current MBAs aren't the only market for MBA. Not every update has to be, or even can be worth upgrading. To be honest, I think the market of current owners is marginal compared to other Mac owners or PC users.

Anyone needing an MBA today can get one - don't see much reason to wait for SB other than Thunderbolt which is still too new to be of much use.

And anyone will still be able to get MBA when SB hits.

I assume TDP numbers are for max load, correct? I would like to see the numbers plotted over a range from idle to full load to see if SB has a higher TDP at lower loads.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/287?vs=54

Nearly 20W lower power consumption when idling. And that i7 is 95W while the C2D is 65W.

CorvetteZR1
Apr 29, 2011, 03:08 PM
I just hope the new MBA comes with Thunderbolt, a lighted keyboard, and runs as cool or cooler than it does now. Also, it would be nice if they could do this while increasing the CPU speed, making ram user upgradeable, and keeping the graphics as good or making them better. All of this in the same case design and I'd be sold on the 11 inch as my daily school/work computer. Come home and hook up to a 27inch ACD. :D

torbjoern
Apr 29, 2011, 03:21 PM
I just hope the new MBA comes with Thunderbolt, a lighted keyboard, and runs as cool or cooler than it does now. Also, it would be nice if they could do this while increasing the CPU speed, making ram user upgradeable, and keeping the graphics as good or making them better. All of this in the same case design and I'd be sold on the 11 inch as my daily school/work computer. Come home and hook up to a 27inch ACD. :D

Inconsistencies are marked with red. Which one is more important?

Twe Foju
Apr 29, 2011, 03:21 PM
OS X does not support DirectX so DX10 vs DX11 is irrelevant.


well, for Bootcamp / Windows gaming that is

Hellhammer
Apr 29, 2011, 03:23 PM
well, for Bootcamp / Windows gaming that is

That isn't something that Apple cares about.

2IS
Apr 29, 2011, 03:44 PM
That isn't something that Apple cares about.

You're right. It would be quite uncharacteristic for Apple to do what the consumers want

CorvetteZR1
Apr 29, 2011, 05:20 PM
Inconsistencies are marked with red. Which one is more important?

Case design as in the way it looks. They would obviously have to re design the mother board to make the ram user upgradeable. I'm talking about the case, not the parts inside the case. I want the case to look the same. I like it as it is. But I want the ram user upgradeable. Steve Jobs is like Willy Wonka, he can make it happen.

fyrefly
Apr 29, 2011, 05:55 PM
You're right. It would be quite uncharacteristic for Apple to do what the consumers want

At the risk of sounding like I've dranken too much Steve Job-brand KoolAid today - I'd say that Apple routinely doesn't give people what they "want". It makes machines that people will realize they need, and it's often not based on specs or benchmarks, etc...

Take Netbooks for example. All kinds of pundits (http://daringfireball.net/linked/2011/04/28/netbooks) said Apple needs to come out with a netbook, or at least a low-cost 10" or less portable. Now Netbook sales are falling 40% 'cause of iPads.

And while some will argue that the 11" MBA is a "netbook", I'd venture to say it's more like a sibling to the 12" PBG4.

Apple took away floppies, and added USB before lots were ready. And they've all but abandoned Blu-Ray, and yet Apple's the only computer manufacturer posting year-over-year growth while other post declines.

John Gruber said it best, I think, when he said Apple's philosophy is to pare tech back to the bare minimum and then add from there, vs. trying to put in everything and the kitchen sink:

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/4/2008/01/medium_Macbook%20Air%20Ports%20GI.jpg

:D

Some users may not like it, but Apple makes hard choices. And (at least so far, and financially) it's paying off.

More to your point - Apple's never been a gaming company. We've been spoiled with the 320m lately, but it was the last hurrah in the MBA universe. There's no easy way to get the 320m's performance + and IX processor w/o making the MBA thicker/have smaller battery/more weight. Gamers suffer. But I bet an i5 MBA will sell through lots and make Apple more money. Which ultimately is the point. They're a corporation beholden to the shareholders like any other.

theturtle
Apr 29, 2011, 05:56 PM
That isn't something that Apple cares about.

hhahaah totally agree

yanksrock100
Apr 29, 2011, 08:15 PM
maybe we should just wait for the macbook wheel....

gri
Apr 29, 2011, 10:33 PM
Dude seriously you need to calm down. This guy is speculating on a forum called Macrumors not Mac Gospel. Sheesh! Just ignore it if you don't like it.

It's MacRumors - not MacSpeculation. But i don't mind you discussing it though it won't influence my decision as I wait for the 2021 MBAs+ (super+) with MegaChip SensTronic architcture from Intronics/MG providing the fastest 5D performance EVER - though the upcoming Quantonics chip is only running 3 microWatt with the photosynthesis battery, one 10 minute charge lasts you 30 days if you don't use to much iHologram; of course charged by the sun. Maybe I wait for that then...:rolleyes:

ntrigue
Apr 29, 2011, 11:19 PM
It could stay right where it is and up the battery an hour and I'd be pleased.

TrollToddington
Apr 30, 2011, 02:28 AM
They exist. We just can't buy them. Apple isn't stupid, they're at least testing the things. They may decide, "eh...we'll forget the Air and just ride Core 2 duos" but saying they don't exist is dumb. Things exist that the general public never knows about. Like the iPad was created (i.e. existed, probably a lot different than it is now) in 2004....it was 2010 before we ever saw it.And your post is purely based on speculation. Stop calling me dumb, it is not polite. You could strengthen your point through providing some proof the SB and IB MBA do exist in Apple's factories. You can't, do you?

applefanDrew
Apr 30, 2011, 10:52 AM
And your post is purely based on speculation. Stop calling me dumb, it is not polite. You could strengthen your point through providing some proof the SB and IB MBA do exist in Apple's factories. You can't, do you?

Actually it's based on common sense. The tremendous growth of the MBA at the end of last year slowed when the refreshed MBP came out. Obviously, they will refresh the MBA (future of notebooks). When they do, it makes sense that they will put the latest (SB) procs in them. Last gen core i procs have worse graphics than SB. It's fairly obvious what the next MBA upgrade will be. Makes sense from business and technical standpoints.

ghileman
May 30, 2011, 04:16 PM
update on ivy bridge timing; looks like Q1-to-mid 2012 at the earliest:

http://www.9to5mac.com/69736/ivy-bridge-chips-pushed-to-2012-macs-will-have-to-wait/

PraisiX-windows
May 30, 2011, 06:32 PM
And your post is purely based on speculation. Stop calling me dumb, it is not polite. You could strengthen your point through providing some proof the SB and IB MBA do exist in Apple's factories. You can't, do you?

Hehe, I just thought I'd take the liberty to comment on this.
I mean, I probably shouldn't, but then again, you can't really blame me, do you?

TrollToddington
May 31, 2011, 01:22 AM
Point taken. English is not my mother language. I should have written "you can't, can you".:)

Hellhammer
May 31, 2011, 07:40 AM
update on ivy bridge timing; looks like Q1-to-mid 2012 at the earliest:

http://www.9to5mac.com/69736/ivy-bridge-chips-pushed-to-2012-macs-will-have-to-wait/

Dual cores and thus U/LV CPUs will be mid-2012 according to the rumors.

trip1ex
May 31, 2011, 07:46 AM
Why does this thread exist? :D

tawcat
May 31, 2011, 05:34 PM
I stopped by Best Buy today and the sales clerk told me that all the MBA's they had in stock were the newest release. I asked Sandy Bridge, they said yes.

I don't put a lot of value on that, being it was Best Buy people!

zombierunner
May 31, 2011, 05:42 PM
I will buy the macbook air in 2013.

lazydesi
Jul 21, 2011, 08:05 PM
so, those who are waiting for IB MBA, you need to wait until July 2012.

WardC
Jul 21, 2011, 08:07 PM
By that time, the MacBook Air will probably be running on ARM-based processors, Apple system-on-a-chip. Likely A7 or A8 processors. Apple is shifting away from intel for the MacBook Airs, they already have prototype MacBook Airs running on ARM, it is only a matter of time.

In that respects, you will be able to run some variant of Mac OS/ iOS also on the Air by that time.

DavidC1
Jul 21, 2011, 08:57 PM
"Significant"? Really? Everything I've read says IB graphics will be about 20% faster than SB. Which is about as fast as SB is from Arrandale, is it not?

I wouldn't be surprised if Ivy Bridge gains 2x performance in graphics over Sandy Bridge. That is in line with their generational gains. They also said back in Computex that they were aiming for 7x graphics performance gain by 2013(Haswell) in the Ultrabook form factor.

Sandy Bridge's graphics in the newest Macbook Air only seems 5-15% slower than the 320M. There's no doubt Ivy Bridge will outperform it significantly.

The Macbook Air on ARM is a baseless rumor. Why they would they opt for 1/3 performance and compatibility issues to maybe get 20-30% better battery life is beyond me.

Hellhammer
Jul 22, 2011, 02:59 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if Ivy Bridge gains 2x performance in graphics over Sandy Bridge. That is in line with their generational gains. They also said back in Computex that they were aiming for 7x graphics performance gain by 2013(Haswell) in the Ultrabook form factor.

Ivy Bridge will have only 16 EUs while Sandy Bridge has 12. That's 33% increase which isn't too promising. The micro-architecture is the same so you won't see any "hidden" gains either. The clock speeds would have to be increased dramatically to provide 100% better performance than SB.

My guess is that IB's graphics will end up being roughly 50% faster. Haswell is a new MA so Intel can do more tweaks to increase the performance.

Jobsian
Jul 22, 2011, 05:26 AM
I've enjoyed reading this thread, save for those who pollute it by disparaging the OP and tell him to stop, very ugly when that happens in the hive-mind here. The cordial posts that eg suggest the current gen cpus are functional are ok i guess and contribute to the thread, not the others.

No-one's forcing you to read this thread. Let others enjoy it, as they certainly are.

DavidC1
Jul 22, 2011, 11:03 AM
Ivy Bridge will have only 16 EUs while Sandy Bridge has 12. That's 33% increase which isn't too promising. The micro-architecture is the same so you won't see any "hidden" gains either. The clock speeds would have to be increased dramatically to provide 100% better performance than SB.

My guess is that IB's graphics will end up being roughly 50% faster. Haswell is a new MA so Intel can do more tweaks to increase the performance.

Remember, Intel has never increased EU count more than 20-30% per generation, yet got 2x gains. EUs alone won't get you high there. Think about it, if just increasing the EUs got you 100% scaling, that would mean performance is 100% bound, and that is just a bad design.

The microarchitecture has been "same" since the GMA X3000. Not the performance though.

GMA X3000: 8 EUs
GMA 4500: 10 EUs ~1.5-1.7x faster, more caches, 2x faster hardware VS, 20% higher clock
GMA HD: 12 EUs ~1.5-2.5x faster, inclusion of a proper HSR mechanism, higher clock, better transcendental performance
HD 3000: 12 EUs ~1.5-2.5x faster, GPU Turbo mode, better transcendental performance, CPU cache sharing, CISC architecture

For Ivy Bridge we can expect not only higher clock, but possibly doubling the ROP and TMU units(every arch since GMA X3000 at 2 ROP/4 TMUs), along with a general change.

If anything, I'd bet on Ivy Bridge getting more benefits than Haswell, as the shrink affords more die size.

Akamatsu
Jul 22, 2011, 11:19 AM
C2D -> SB is 3 generations of processor advances.

SB -> IB is only one generation, and it's a die shrink. That will mean reduced power, but not a whole lot of speed increase.

If you currently have a 2010 MBA, then you may want to wait. If you don't have a MBA and want one, don't wait. Buy it now.

KPOM
Jul 22, 2011, 11:41 AM
Image (http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/4/2008/01/medium_Macbook%20Air%20Ports%20GI.jpg)

:D


You missed the SCSI and ADB ports. We need to connect to Appletalk devices, right?

KPOM
Jul 22, 2011, 11:45 AM
Ivy Bridge will have only 16 EUs while Sandy Bridge has 12. That's 33% increase which isn't too promising. The micro-architecture is the same so you won't see any "hidden" gains either. The clock speeds would have to be increased dramatically to provide 100% better performance than SB.

My guess is that IB's graphics will end up being roughly 50% faster. Haswell is a new MA so Intel can do more tweaks to increase the performance.

According to Wikipedia, Intel is targeting a 20% CPU boost and 30% GPU boost with Ivy Bridge. It sounds more like the jump from the Merom Core 2 Duo to the Penryn. Nice, but not something worth waiting a year for. Wednesday's announcement was like jumping from a Pentium 4 or Pentium M to a Core 2 Duo.

alflavor
Jul 22, 2011, 03:21 PM
I think most sensible 2010 owners like me will wait for next generation, seems silly to upgrade after not even 1 year.

2010 MBA is still a fine machine!

Sensamic
Jul 22, 2011, 03:29 PM
Ivy Bridge will come with USB 3.0 support, so that means next Macbook Air will come with Thunderbolt and USB 3.0 instead of the 2.0.

Im waiting probably.

Hellhammer
Jul 22, 2011, 03:58 PM
Remember, Intel has never increased EU count more than 20-30% per generation, yet got 2x gains. EUs alone won't get you high there. Think about it, if just increasing the EUs got you 100% scaling, that would mean performance is 100% bound, and that is just a bad design.

The microarchitecture has been "same" since the GMA X3000. Not the performance though.

GMA X3000: 8 EUs
GMA 4500: 10 EUs ~1.5-1.7x faster, more caches, 2x faster hardware VS, 20% higher clock
GMA HD: 12 EUs ~1.5-2.5x faster, inclusion of a proper HSR mechanism, higher clock, better transcendental performance
HD 3000: 12 EUs ~1.5-2.5x faster, GPU Turbo mode, better transcendental performance, CPU cache sharing, CISC architecture

For Ivy Bridge we can expect not only higher clock, but possibly doubling the ROP and TMU units(every arch since GMA X3000 at 2 ROP/4 TMUs), along with a general change.

If anything, I'd bet on Ivy Bridge getting more benefits than Haswell, as the shrink affords more die size.

There have been architectural changes as well, like for example NotebookCheck (http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-HD-Graphics-3000.37948.0.html) says. You don't get 100% performance boost by using the same EUs at the same clock speeds, no matter how many other tweaks you add. Ivy Bridge seems to be the first time when there won't be any architectural changes, given that it's only a dies shrink.

According to Wikipedia, Intel is targeting a 20% CPU boost and 30% GPU boost with Ivy Bridge. It sounds more like the jump from the Merom Core 2 Duo to the Penryn. Nice, but not something worth waiting a year for. Wednesday's announcement was like jumping from a Pentium 4 or Pentium M to a Core 2 Duo.

30% sounds reasonable and what I would expect as well. Maybe a bit more, like 50% though.

Boeing747
Jul 22, 2011, 04:01 PM
This sounds like:

Is it worth the wait for the 2030 MacBook Air or should I get one now?

DavidC1
Jul 22, 2011, 04:34 PM
Ivy Bridge seems to be the first time when there won't be any architectural changes, given that it's only a dies shrink.

Actually, we don't know that. Moving to DX11 from DX10.1 is a architectural change in itself. I'm pretty certain they'll change other aspects.

Hellhammer
Jul 22, 2011, 04:37 PM
Actually, we don't know that. Moving to DX11 from DX10.1 is a architectural change in itself. I'm pretty certain they'll change other aspects.

Hmm, you're right, I forgot that :o Of course we all hope that Intel can provide the 100% increase as that is really needed. However, it's never too easy to be optimistic when talking about Intel GPUs :p

calvol
Jul 22, 2011, 04:41 PM
Wait for Ivy if you own 2010 MBA, unless you're doing video editing. For all other things, the CPU is not the bottleneck. Sandy Bridge runs hotter and has shorter battery life than C2D. This is an incremental refresh, the next one should be a major redesign.

Bokes
Jul 22, 2011, 04:43 PM
Hahahaha!
This kills me every time....they just released an awesome machine....and you want to wait for what's next...?

I sold my old VerC Mac Air and I just picked up a new 13inch.
Do NOT wait. Go get the damn thing.
It's very nice!

Hellhammer
Jul 22, 2011, 04:43 PM
Wait for Ivy if you own 2010 MBA, unless you're doing video editing. For all other things, the CPU is not the bottleneck. Sandy Bridge runs hotter and has shorter battery life than C2D. This is an incremental refresh, the next one should be a major redesign.

The battery life is actually slightly longer in 2011 MBA

http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph4528/39855.png

XX55XX
Jul 22, 2011, 04:49 PM
The battery life is actually slightly longer in 2011 MBA

http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph4528/39855.png

Where is the associated article? Can't find it on AnandTech's main site.

Hellhammer
Jul 22, 2011, 04:54 PM
Where is the associated article? Can't find it on AnandTech's main site.

It's not out yet. That is a teaser from Anand's Twitter. I would expect the full review next week unless Anand has lots of other things to write about (though I don't think so, considering that there are no tweets or other info).

Meever
Jul 22, 2011, 05:11 PM
You should just wait for the golden gate bridge Macbook Air that'll be coming out in 2019. It'll support usb 4.0 natively, have integrated GPU that's comparable to the gtx560 AND it'll all be on a 0.05mm die!


Technology moves too fast now. If you wait 8 months whatever just came out will spank the last gen stuff in benchmarks.

The real question is what the difference in real life performance will be. Is waiting 8 months for something that's 30% faster (30 seconds of waiting to 21 seconds!) Will Apple support usb 3.0 along with thunderbolt? Are they going to use a new SSD technology (the soldered on kind?) etc, etc.

Most modern computers are obscenely fast already. It can last us years.... Every performance gain is nowhere near as substantial as it used to be. so take all that into account and figure out when you want to buy.

There's a very popular expression that floats around quite a bit on the forums. "upgrade when you need to and buy as fast as you can afford"

Samsumac
Jul 22, 2011, 05:22 PM
Well said.... :cool:
You should just wait for the golden gate bridge Macbook Air that'll be coming out in 2019. It'll support usb 4.0 natively, have integrated GPU that's comparable to the gtx560 AND it'll all be on a 0.05mm die!


Technology moves too fast now. If you wait 8 months whatever just came out will spank the last gen stuff in benchmarks.

The real question is what the difference in real life performance will be. Is waiting 8 months for something that's 30% faster (30 seconds of waiting to 21 seconds!) Will Apple support usb 3.0 along with thunderbolt? Are they going to use a new SSD technology (the soldered on kind?) etc, etc.

Most modern computers are obscenely fast already. It can last us years.... Every performance gain is nowhere near as substantial as it used to be. so take all that into account and figure out when you want to buy.

There's a very popular expression that floats around quite a bit on the forums. "upgrade when you need to and buy as fast as you can afford"

Jobsian
Jul 22, 2011, 05:34 PM
That's a pretty massive die! :D

Jobsian
Jul 22, 2011, 05:35 PM
Where is the associated article? Can't find it on AnandTech's main site.
Was just about to ask the same thing. Hellhammer you tease!

calvol
Jul 22, 2011, 05:40 PM
The battery life is actually slightly longer in 2011 MBA
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph4528/39855.png

Not so fast my friend >
http://www.laptopmag.com/review/laptop/apple-macbook-air-13-2011.aspx?page=3

Greg M
Jul 22, 2011, 08:50 PM
Ivy Bridge will come with USB 3.0 support, so that means next Macbook Air will come with Thunderbolt and USB 3.0 instead of the 2.0.

Im waiting probably.

I REALLY want a lighted keyboard. I had one with my MBP but now I've got the only MBA that doesn't have one. I'm willing to buy the new MBA just for the lighted keyboard.

However, if there's a chance that USB 3 might be on the next MBA then I just might hold off on a new one to wait for that. Thunderbolt is kind of useless for now. USB 3 will probably be more useful than thunderbolt for some time.

DavidC1
Jul 24, 2011, 04:55 AM
Hmm, you're right, I forgot that :o Of course we all hope that Intel can provide the 100% increase as that is really needed. However, it's never too easy to be optimistic when talking about Intel GPUs :p

You could turn out to be right. Newer generation brings other benefits as well like better game compatibility, or image quality, but I agree performance is still something that is at the top for what people want.

I'll take my words back if I said anything that sounded definitive.

Regardless, the tip with such fast moving area as tech, its best to get what you need now than waiting.

Mr. Gates
Jul 24, 2011, 06:49 AM
Better power management.

Gotta wonder how long those new ones will last

7
8
12 hours ??

3bs
Jul 24, 2011, 07:01 AM
I think most sensible 2010 owners like me will wait for next generation, seems silly to upgrade after not even 1 year.

2010 MBA is still a fine machine!

Agreed. That's what I'm gonna do

Greg M
Jul 24, 2011, 07:11 AM
I think most sensible 2010 owners like me will wait for next generation, seems silly to upgrade after not even 1 year.

2010 MBA is still a fine machine!

Except for those of us that could really use the lighted keyboard. I figure it's going to cost me about $250 to upgrade. The lighted keyboard is worth it to me.

Lord Appleseed
Jul 24, 2011, 07:29 AM
Except for those of us that could really use the lighted keyboard. I figure it's going to cost me about $250 to upgrade. The lighted keyboard is worth it to me.

Plus, you have back your warranty for another year and a noticeably faster machine.

Greg M
Jul 24, 2011, 07:47 AM
Plus, you have back your warranty for another year and a noticeably faster machine.

Absolutely. However, my 2010 is certainly fast enough for what I use it for most of the time.

What I really want almost as much as the lighted keyboard is something faster then USB 2. I don't understand why Apple has to be so far behind sometimes. Right now thunderbolt is useless. Hopefully someone will come out with an adapter that will allow for multiple connections like USB 3, FW 800 and eSATA.

neteng101
Jul 24, 2011, 07:52 AM
I don't understand why Apple has to be so far behind sometimes.

Intel is to blame here. Intel provided Thunderbolt but not USB 3.0... but USB 3.0 is on the roadmap for Ivy, so we can hope it will come. Until USB 3.0 hits a mainstream chipset, or Thunderbolt becomes available on PCs too, the number of these devices won't be huge. Still waiting to see if anyone comes up with a Thunderbolt docking option (vs. the one built into the new ACD). Or if the new ACD will eventually work with PCs with a Thunderbolt port, and if AMD/Nvidia will have a Thunderbolt connection for their cards, etc.

Translation: Both Thunderbolt and USB 3.0 are still in their infancy and not yet mainstream.

Lord Appleseed
Jul 24, 2011, 08:05 AM
Absolutely. However, my 2010 is certainly fast enough for what I use it for most of the time.

What I really want almost as much as the lighted keyboard is something faster then USB 2. I don't understand why Apple has to be so far behind sometimes. Right now thunderbolt is useless. Hopefully someone will come out with an adapter that will allow for multiple connections like USB 3, FW 800 and eSATA.

It will come, i'm sure.

I ordered a 13" MBA too today. Now to sell my 2010 13"....

Greg M
Jul 24, 2011, 08:14 AM
Intel is to blame here.
Translation: Both Thunderbolt and USB 3.0 are still in their infancy and not yet mainstream.

No intel is not to blame. Jobs decided not to support USB 3. I wouldn't be surprised to see no USB 3 with ivy. Almost all PC MBs come with USB 3.

Thunderbolt is an embryo. There is not 1 consumer product available for it except for a $50 cord.

USB 3 devices have been widely available for more than a year. There are plenty of options out there.

clyde2801
Jul 24, 2011, 08:39 AM
No intel is not to blame. Jobs decided not to support USB 3. I wouldn't be surprised to see no USB 3 with ivy. Almost all PC MBs come with USB 3.

Thunderbolt is an embryo. There is not 1 consumer product available for it except for a $50 cord.

USB 3 devices have been widely available for more than a year. There are plenty of options out there.

Wait for our larcenous friends in the People's Republic to get their hands on TB accessories and reverse engineer them. You'll start seeing accessories on flea bay for $50 or less.

Hellhammer
Jul 24, 2011, 02:08 PM
No intel is not to blame. Jobs decided not to support USB 3. I wouldn't be surprised to see no USB 3 with ivy. Almost all PC MBs come with USB 3.

Intel has confirmed USB 3.0

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/ivy-bridge-usb-superspeed-thunderbolt,12579.html

Twe Foju
Jul 25, 2011, 01:24 AM
Fast forward to 2056. Stu's grandchildren stop by his house on a crisp fall day, but to their shock and disappointment, they find Stu sitting dead at his horrible-looking, miserable-performing circa 2007 Dell laptop with a desktop full of Internet Explorer pop-ups and a CPU utilized at 100% because of Malware--Windows XP went out of support years ago. Sadly, Stu never bought a MacBook Air because he was perpetually caught in an n+1 waiting cycle, claiming he was waiting for the BEST EVAR performance. Unfortunately for Stu, he failed to grasp the concept of basic utility. Some might call him retarded, but to me, he was just another Macrumors member. Ever the patient consumer.

and to their surprise, Stu's Dell Laptop battery life lasted for 49 years and never shuts down :D



sorry just cant help it :D

but amen to your post man :D

ninethirty
Jul 25, 2011, 01:56 AM
I'm sure it's been said over and over again in this thread, but the new airs were JUST released? Why on Earth would you wait for the next update? If this is the way you think, when it hits, you'll just wonder about the update after that.

Buy or don't.. but this kind of speculation or worry is just silly in my opinion.

VMMan
Jul 25, 2011, 01:56 AM
You should just wait for the golden gate bridge Macbook Air that'll be coming out in 2019. It'll support usb 4.0 natively, have integrated GPU that's comparable to the gtx560 AND it'll all be on a 0.05mm die!

Golden Gate Bridge MBA!! rotflmao!!