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mthemh44
Apr 30, 2011, 04:15 PM
Have a 2007 MacBook Pro right now. 2.4ghz core 2 duo 4gb RAM NVidia GeForce 8600m GT

Also have iPad.

I want to sell the iPad and replace it with an 11 inch Air. Should I do that? If so, should I wait for a possible Sandy Bridge edition? I'm guessing i3?

What do you guys think?:apple:



simsaladimbamba
Apr 30, 2011, 04:17 PM
What are your current and future computational needs?
Does the current machine you have suffice yours?

firewood
Apr 30, 2011, 04:59 PM
Can you get useful work done with the current C2D MBA 11? Enough to make it work the equivalent rental price? (as in the difference between the price of the next version and whatever you could sell your used MBA 11 for several months from now.)

mthemh44
Apr 30, 2011, 08:20 PM
I think that the current Core 2 Duo is a great low powered processor. But, I really don't think that it is worth the price. I don't really think that it will provide the power that my 2.4 ghz Core 2 Duo can provide. But my concern with a core i processor in an air (with no fans) would be it would get very hot. what do you guys think?:apple:

KPOM
Apr 30, 2011, 08:38 PM
The MacBook Air is not a gaming machine by any stretch, but that said, the Core 2 Duo/NVIDIA 320m combo would be better suited to light gaming than the Sandy Bridge/HD3000 combo. Otherwise, the Sandy Bridge MacBook Air would be superior to the current MacBook Air line, even if nothing else changes. Likely the 11" will come with a ULV i5 or i7. There are no mobile Sandy Bridge Core i3 chips yet.

If the Sandy Bridge model gets Thunderbolt, and you don't game, it would be a no brainer (Sandy Bridge) as far as I'm concerned, provided Apple doesn't do anything stupid like make the screen resolution lower. The processor would be significantly faster, capable of processing 4 threads at a time (instead of 2), and would use less battery. If not for the garbage integrated graphics that were mandatory in the old Core i3/i5/i7, Apple would have switched to them a year ago. The CPU really is that much better.

Ridley
May 3, 2011, 11:51 AM
A sandybridge macbook air should be a significant upgrade. The 11 inch will supposedly have the ultra low voltage variants... a 1.4 Ghz i5 or a 1.6 Ghz i7.

I can't find the link but the 13 inch should have a choice of 2.1 or 2.3 Ghz i7.

EDIT: here is the link http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/04/22/apple_to_begin_production_of_thunderbolt_macbook_airs_next_month.html

"consumers can expect to see new 11.6-inch MacBook Airs sporting 1.4GHz to 1.6GHz Core i5 and Core i7 chips and 13.3-inch MacBook Airs with 2.10 and 2.30GHz Core i7 processors."

Eyeu
May 3, 2011, 12:30 PM
Any time frame when the MBAs will be upgraded with Sandy Bridge? Or
any of the rumored upgrades? Lion?
thanks

fyrefly
May 3, 2011, 12:41 PM
I think that the current Core 2 Duo is a great low powered processor. But, I really don't think that it is worth the price. I don't really think that it will provide the power that my 2.4 ghz Core 2 Duo can provide. But my concern with a core i processor in an air (with no fans) would be it would get very hot. what do you guys think?:apple:

What power do you need? You still haven't given us any idea of what you use your computer for, so there's no way we can provide you with any legit advice.

As KPOM said, if you want to do any sort of FPS-dependant gaming, the Intel HD 3000 IGP will be a drop from the 320m. We still don't know how big of a drop. In windows it's ~40% drop in gaming, but the OSX drivers for the Intel HD 3000 are stronger, so hopefully it'll be less.

If gaming doesn't matter, the LV Sandy Bridge processor will stomp the C2D. The Intel HD 3000 (even the low-voltage variant) handles Flash video, 1080p, etc... all fine - the only thing it's bad at so far is gaming).

And to alleviate your concerns, The Sandy Bridge chip shouldn't get much hotter than the C2D at all. Currently the SU9400/9600 in the 11" Air uses 10W while the 320m uses at least another 10W (power usage dictates heat, for the most part in a laptop).

The Processors that the Sandy Bridge MBA would use are 17W parts, so they'd actually (hopefully) suck less power, making them less hot than the C2D+320m processors.

But this is all in theory. Only time will tell.

Any time frame when the MBAs will be upgraded with Sandy Bridge? Or
any of the rumored upgrades? Lion?

The current rumours point to a manufacturing Ramp in May, and a release in June for the Sandy Bridge MBA. CNET reported this back in February, and AppleInsider and others have corroborated it lately, lending more credence to the June date.

But again, this is all just rumours. The only time we'll actually know if a SB MBA is coming is when Apple announces/releases the update. ;)

TrollToddington
May 3, 2011, 01:19 PM
Judging by the bump in speed in the freshly updated iMacs we can expect the new Sandy Bridge processors to be up to 70-100% faster in processor intensive tasks than the C2D.

This, combined with improved battery life, will make the new Airs very attractive to people like me who don't use the machine to play 3D games. Besides, the possibility to increase the SDD space via Thunderbolt seems very attractive.

mthemh44
May 4, 2011, 04:48 PM
I will use this machine for internet browsing, video chatting, some basic video editing, microsoft office, and maybe some windows 7 using some vmware fusion. How do you think the sandy bridge will handle these tasks?

Kafka
May 4, 2011, 05:13 PM
I'm not an expert but I think the white Macbook and the Mac Mini are far more overdue for a refresh (as well as other products maybe). Seeing how they often relatively evenly space the different refreshes and most of the time do them one by one, I don't see the next MBA coming before fall 2011. The current gen MBA does what its supposed to do very well for the time being. MBA enthousiasts want it all now (portability and power) but power is not what this machine is about so I guess it can wait a bit more.

Cheffy Dave
May 4, 2011, 06:22 PM
I think everyone should just wait, there will ALWAYS be something better down the road, and you could always have had that, but then, once you buy, there will always be something better some day, so if you are always waiting, you will never , ever buy, and enjoy the world of Apple Computing:get over the remorse, buy something, and enjoy computing, the way it should be:eek:

trip1ex
May 4, 2011, 06:26 PM
Got the 11 MBA today. Seems great so far. Of course easy for a Mac to make a great first impression with its packaging and aluminum unibody etc. SSD makes things much speedier than they would otherwise be. Handles 32gb iphoto library with no problem.

Only knock right now is 64gb is small. doh! Leaves me 15gb after loading all photos in there.

Wife's machine though or will be on Sunday. Might be loading photo library on a different mac. Haven't decided. And sold my imac so will have to wait until I get a new one.

But I got a deal on it. $786 on Ebay after Macmall sale and IE9 EBay bucks promotion. EBay bucks as good as cash since you can buy gift cards on EBay to stores I shop at anyway for essential goods.

Ridley
May 5, 2011, 11:50 AM
I think everyone should just wait, there will ALWAYS be something better down the road, and you could always have had that, but then, once you buy, there will always be something better some day, so if you are always waiting, you will never , ever buy, and enjoy the world of Apple Computing:get over the remorse, buy something, and enjoy computing, the way it should be:eek:

I see the point you are trying to make... i talked about this in another post so please forgive the cut and paste, but I feel like the issue is not whether we are debating if computers will be better in the future (like you are saying) but rather what cycle people like to buy on. Tick vs Tock

This is a really clear explanation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Tick-Tock

Basically for Intel a tick is a die shrink and a tock is a new micro-architecture. Personally I prefer to buy chips on the tock because i think they are better value and more exciting. I have a merom MBP and am waiting to buy an SB air for my girlfriend.

Seriously, look at that link and see the gap between Penryn (current MBA C2D) and SandyBridge. According to wikipedia SB is 17-20% faster than Nehalem clock-for-clock and Nehalem is 20% faster than Penryn (current MBA C2D) clock-for-clock. 20% faster of 20% faster is 44% faster clock-for-clock! I've got my eye on the 11 inch models and they have a turbo clock rate of almost double the current chip on TOP of that!

A SB upgrade would be a massive increase in CPU speed. Flat out, you don't find those kinds of jumps very regularly in the industry. SB to Ivy Bridge will likely be 20% improvement, we are talking likely over 50% in this iteration!

And anyone that tells you the current gen is a better buy because of the GPU, i'd also disagree with. No one know what apple has up its sleeve for GPU in a SB MBA, but at WORST the gap there is still small...especially compared to the CPU gap. AND the CPU gap affects the user experience far far more.

Its a no brainer to wait for the likely June release of a SB Air. Seriously... a 1 month wait!? Please! I hope we can stop debating it.

entatlrg
May 5, 2011, 01:28 PM
Ridley

LOL, you didn't mention heat and fan noise once in your post, just speed, speed and more speed.

With the power and speed you speak of heat and fan noise come with that. Is the MBA capable to manage the heat from the added power? We're not sure. If I had to say one way or the other I'd say no, based on what I've read SB in it's current state would turn the little 11" Air into a frying pan.

Think SB doesn't run a (lot) warmer? Go read in the MBP forum, on the first page there's people posting who wish they'd of kept their C2D MBP's ... because of excess heat and really loud fans. I had a 17" MBP quad core for a short time, the fans roared and it ran much warmer than the C2D 15" MBP's in our offices....

So "tick tock" the reality of it all is I've had my MacBook Air since it's release on October 20th, you still don't have one ... tick tock ... and what guarantee to do have that Apple will introduce a SB Air in July, couldn't it easily be July, August, September, October or even skip it and wait for the revised and cooler running Ivy Bridge .... tick tock ... you're still waiting.

So in reality, Cheffy Dave's point is right on, and by the way ... tick tock he has his MacBook now too ... you don't.

Seriously, these 'wait for SB' and 'Future Proofing' threads crack me up. To begin with Apple is the most unpredictable company on the planet when it comes to product updates, and the rumors and speculation are rarely close.

See it. Like it. Buy it. Enjoy!!

ritmomundo
May 5, 2011, 01:39 PM
Have a 2007 MacBook Pro right now. 2.4ghz core 2 duo 4gb RAM NVidia GeForce 8600m GT

Also have iPad.

I want to sell the iPad and replace it with an 11 inch Air. Should I do that? If so, should I wait for a possible Sandy Bridge edition? I'm guessing i3?

What do you guys think?:apple:

Buy it now only if you need it now. Since you're asking online if you should buy it, then you obviously don't need it now.... So wait for the refresh.

cirus
May 5, 2011, 06:10 PM
LOL, you didn't mention heat and fan noise once in your post, just speed, speed and more speed.

With the power and speed you speak of heat and fan noise come with that. Is the MBA capable to manage the heat from the added power? We're not sure. If I had to say one way or the other I'd say no, based on what I've read SB in it's current state would turn the little 11" Air into a frying pan.

Think SB doesn't run a (lot) warmer? Go read in the MBP forum, on the first page there's people posting who wish they'd of kept their C2D MBP's ... because of excess heat and really loud fans. I had a 17" MBP quad core for a short time, the fans roared and it ran much warmer than the C2D 15" MBP's in our offices....

So "tick tock" the reality of it all is I've had my MacBook Air since it's release on October 20th, you still don't have one ... tick tock ... and what guarantee to do have that Apple will introduce a SB Air in July, couldn't it easily be July, August, September, October or even skip it and wait for the revised and cooler running Ivy Bridge .... tick tock ... you're still waiting.

So in reality, Cheffy Dave's point is right on, and by the way ... tick tock he has his MacBook now too ... you don't.

Seriously, these 'wait for SB' and 'Future Proofing' threads crack me up. To begin with Apple is the most unpredictable company on the planet when it comes to product updates, and the rumors and speculation are rarely close.

See it. Like it. Buy it. Enjoy!!

Well they did add a quad core CPU to the 15 and 17 inch MBP as well as a dedicated graphics card without changing the form factor so...

I personally find that my sandy bridge system is a lot cooler than my core 2 duo system but can get hotter if I push the CPU up (which doesn't happen much since its so powerful compared to the core 2 duo).

trip1ex
May 5, 2011, 06:10 PM
I see the point you are trying to make... i talked about this in another post so please forgive the cut and paste, but I feel like the issue is not whether we are debating if computers will be better in the future (like you are saying) but rather what cycle people like to buy on. Tick vs Tock

This is a really clear explanation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Tick-Tock

Basically for Intel a tick is a die shrink and a tock is a new micro-architecture. Personally I prefer to buy chips on the tock because i think they are better value and more exciting. I have a merom MBP and am waiting to buy an SB air for my girlfriend.

Seriously, look at that link and see the gap between Penryn (current MBA C2D) and SandyBridge. According to wikipedia SB is 17-20% faster than Nehalem clock-for-clock and Nehalem is 20% faster than Penryn (current MBA C2D) clock-for-clock. 20% faster of 20% faster is 44% faster clock-for-clock! I've got my eye on the 11 inch models and they have a turbo clock rate of almost double the current chip on TOP of that!

A SB upgrade would be a massive increase in CPU speed. Flat out, you don't find those kinds of jumps very regularly in the industry. SB to Ivy Bridge will likely be 20% improvement, we are talking likely over 50% in this iteration!

And anyone that tells you the current gen is a better buy because of the GPU, i'd also disagree with. No one know what apple has up its sleeve for GPU in a SB MBA, but at WORST the gap there is still small...especially compared to the CPU gap. AND the CPU gap affects the user experience far far more.

Its a no brainer to wait for the likely June release of a SB Air. Seriously... a 1 month wait!? Please! I hope we can stop debating it.

It won't be that big of a difference. You're exaggerating.

And every new release is always the "most exciting."

And there's no guarantee a new MBA is released in June.

Now I probably wouldn't have bought my MBA 11 the other day if it was full price plus tax. But ... this notion the new ones 8 months later are going to be so so much better is drinking a little too much kool-aid.

fyrefly
May 6, 2011, 02:01 AM
LOL, you didn't mention heat and fan noise once in your post, just speed, speed and more speed.

With the power and speed you speak of heat and fan noise come with that. Is the MBA capable to manage the heat from the added power? We're not sure. If I had to say one way or the other I'd say no, based on what I've read SB in it's current state would turn the little 11" Air into a frying pan.

Think SB doesn't run a (lot) warmer? Go read in the MBP forum, on the first page there's people posting who wish they'd of kept their C2D MBP's ... because of excess heat and really loud fans. I had a 17" MBP quad core for a short time, the fans roared and it ran much warmer than the C2D 15" MBP's in our offices....

Really? A 45W CPU and a 20W GPU that in turbo mode can suck up 90W+ of energy... and there was no Chassis changes, so the new MBPs get hotter. Wow. It must just be Sandy Bridge. It's the devil. Thanks so much entatlrg for enlightening us with your obviously superior knowledge on the subject.

I honestly don't see how a 65W+ CPU heating up a 17" chassis originally built to house 55W or lower, compares to a 17W CPU/GPU heating up an 11" chasis that was built to handle at least 20W (C2D+320m).

Now, also keep in mind that TDP is not everything, but baring any actual measurements of the purely theoretical SB MBA, using pure numbers (not just vague opinions), the current ULV C2D+320m consumes more than 17W so a SB MBA will presumably *not* heat up like a frying pan, as you seem to love to say in every thread.

Were you also one of the ones who was panning (rightly so) Arrandale last year and telling us all to wait for SB as "the answer"?

I'm not sure why you get off so much on spreading FUD about the SB processors. If you wanted to sound off about how the GPU will be 1/2 as powerful as the 320m, (when playing games), I'd be with ya. As that's a provable statement. But all this frying pan nonsense just reeks of an Ultimate MBA 13" 320m owner who doesn't want his new toy to become outdated.

Like this "Waa waa, I have one and you don't" statement builds you any credibility?

So "tick tock" the reality of it all is I've had my MacBook Air since it's release on October 20th, you still don't have one ... tick tock ... and what guarantee to do have that Apple will introduce a SB Air in July, couldn't it easily be July, August, September, October or even skip it and wait for the revised and cooler running Ivy Bridge .... tick tock ... you're still waiting.

Sure, there's a possibility the MBA could not be updated till the fall. Sure. Reliable sources have said June, but Apple could still change plans. And sure, Ivy Bridge will be cooler, but that's not till this time next year... and the MBA will then be 18+ Months without an update.

Bottom Line: If you have proof, kindly show us the testing that proves that a 17W CPU+IGP in a theoretical machine will heat up as much as a 65W+ CPU in a 17" Machine. Otherwise, enjoy your 320m machine and stop spreading FUD around about processors no-one's seen/benchmarked/tested, (except for a lone possibility in a Samsung machine running Windows).

Seriously, these 'wait for SB' and 'Future Proofing' threads crack me up. To begin with Apple is the most unpredictable company on the planet when it comes to product updates, and the rumors and speculation are rarely close.

See it. Like it. Buy it. Enjoy!!

My take on it is that most people who are asking these questions don't *need* a machine right now. So the general rule in computer buying "buy the best you can afford, and only when you *need* it, and don't look back" still applies.

If people don't need a MBA till the summer/fall, of course they should wait. SB or not, why spend $$ you don't need?

It won't be that big of a difference. You're exaggerating.

And every new release is always the "most exciting."

And there's no guarantee a new MBA is released in June.

Now I probably wouldn't have bought my MBA 11 the other day if it was full price plus tax. But ... this notion the new ones 8 months later are going to be so so much better is drinking a little too much kool-aid.

Intersting. Another recent buyer, poo-pooing the potential for a June release. (AKA hoping their investment isn't invalidated in a month by a new machine.)

I get it, I seriously do. But I don't get why people try to pass their feelings, or wishes off as "probability". None of us know. For sure not me. But also not you. But I'd rather bet on people who've accurately pin-pointed releases months in advance, than go with the people who obviously have a horse in the race of not wanting a new machine to come out right after they've just bought the "old" one.

Regarding power, though, SB is a full two generations ahead of C2D. There's lots of enhancements (though w/o an Nvidia GPU, there's also a downside). 44% faster could be a real thing. But only in CPU-bound testing.

The closest comparison is the 2010/2011 MBP 13". The 2010 2.4Ghz C2D base-model had a geekbench score around ~3400. The new i5 MBP 13" base-model (lower-clocked, mind you at 2.3Ghz) scored 5945. 3400/5945 = almost 57.6%, hitting right around that 44% faster mark, no?

Granted, the LV chips will be different, (Geekbenching Windows i5-2537M vs. OSX SL9400 gives you a less direct comparison, but the i5 chip is still 30% faster CPU-wise).

Thing is, we haven't seen them under OSX, and we haven't seen any of the 25W Parts which'll also have Turbo-Boost (if Apple doesn't cripple it), and if Apple goes with 17W/25W i7 chips, they'll have hyper-threading as well. That'll help make that huge jump in CPU power (and potentially mitigate at least some of the 40-50% drop in gaming power).

It still comes down to no-one knows. June/September/Sandy/Ivy, we don't know We can only help people try to make decisions, and spreading complete false-hoods doesn't help anyone.

Gonky
May 6, 2011, 03:12 AM
After having the Rev C MBA since release and upgrading to the maximum 11.6 model when they were released I am starting to long for a bigger screen again. The thing I miss most is the backlight keyboard so that will be a deal breaker if they reintroduce it as an option.

Does anybody know if SB will improve the battery life? Not that I think it's bad currently, but an improvement would be good.

anthro
May 6, 2011, 06:31 AM
We don't know if the refresh will really come in June. Clues aren't clear enough.

Also think if you're really going to prefer the CPU bump over current gen's NVIDIA 320M.

Either way, because you can wait, buy in June. The lack of a dedicated GPU in the potential update could be a deal breaker for some, but it can also pull down the prices of the late 2010 version.

Chupa Chupa
May 6, 2011, 07:30 AM
I don't think it makes any sense at all to buy a C2D MBA now. We know Apple is updating everything w/ SNB and TB. MBA is due and probably before WWDC. The current MBA price will get a haircut and the new ones will better stand up to time, i.e., the next 3 years of computing. Either way if you buy now you screw yourself over.

trip1ex
May 6, 2011, 07:47 AM
Intersting. Another recent buyer, poo-pooing the potential for a June release. (AKA hoping their investment isn't invalidated in a month by a new machine.)

I get it, I seriously do. But I don't get why people try to pass their feelings, or wishes off as "probability". None of us know. For sure not me. But also not you. But I'd rather bet on people who've accurately pin-pointed releases months in advance, than go with the people who obviously have a horse in the race of not wanting a new machine to come out right after they've just bought the "old" one.

Except I hope the new ones are released as soon as possible despite having just bought an 11" MBA.

I'm not sure how you go from me saying no one knows to me saying I hope they aren't released.



Regarding power, though, SB is a full two generations ahead of C2D. There's lots of enhancements (though w/o an Nvidia GPU, there's also a downside). 44% faster could be a real thing. But only in CPU-bound testing.

Yep only in "testing."

YOu really have to qualify these sunny projections. They show up in benchmarks and tests, but not in day to day use so much.

I have a SB machine too. I know.


It still comes down to no-one knows. June/September/Sandy/Ivy, we don't know We can only help people try to make decisions, and spreading complete false-hoods doesn't help anyone.

Exactly. No one knows when the next model is coming. Stop treating it as a given is all I said. And stop pretending like SB cpus will make your machine 50% faster across the board.

Personally I hedged my bets. I purchased an 11" MBA. I bought mine low enough that I can roughly break even on a resell give or take in the next month or two.

Even then the new 11" MBAs are going to be a few hundred dollars more than I paid for today's 11" MBA. Is there day to day use going to be more zippy? That's what I would be looking for in an MBA. Zippiness. Responsiveness. I'm not looking so much for outright computing power.

That's because I know it's not going to come close to the power of my desktop for heavy duty tasks.

gpat
May 6, 2011, 07:55 AM
Just wait, the Sandy Bridge Airs are going to be insanely powerful. If they turn out to be disappointing, you can always grab a 2010 on clearance.

MBABuyer
May 6, 2011, 07:56 AM
Apple to begin production of Thunderbolt MacBook Airs this month

By Kasper Jade
Published: 11:00 AM EST

Apple next month will reportedly begin manufacturing the first updates to its rejuvenated MacBook Air line as the company looks to maintain the impressive sales momentum generated by the ultra-thin notebooks and limit the market opportunity for would-be competitors hoping to wedge their foot in the door.

Sales of the aggressively-priced 11.6- and 13.3-inch MacBook Airs got off to a hot start following their introduction last October, with Apple assembling roughly 1 million units within their first quarter of availability. During those three months, consumers reportedly chose the new MacBook Airs at a one-to-two ratio to the company's more established MacBook Pro offerings, making for one of the company's most successful Mac product launches ever.

However, shipments of the Airs declined 51 percent sequentially during the first calendar quarter of 2011 -- including a 40 percent month-over-month decline in February -- as Apple introduced new MacBook Pros that caught consumers' eyes, according to Concord Securities analyst Ming-Chi Kuo, who has proven sources within the Cupertino-based company's Far Eastern supply chain.

Kuo tells AppleInsider that his latest round of checks with suppliers and system builders in the region reveals that MacBook Air shipments are set to rebound during the current calendar quarter, fueled by an upgrade to Intel's latest Sandy Bridge microprocessors, integrated Intel graphics, and the expected adoption of the new Thunderbolt high-speed I/O technology that made its debut on MacBook Pros earlier this year.

Specifically, he said the new models will "go to mass production in late May," which corroborates an earlier report that cited reliable sources as saying Apple would be ready to publicly announce and ship to consumers MacBook Airs with Sandy Bridge processors during following month of June.




The upgrade should help boost Apple's overall notebook shipments between 5 percent to 10 percent sequentially for the current quarter, according to Kuo, reversing a 5 percent decline from the fourth quarter of 2010 to the first quarter of 2011, which he notes was still less than the 11% average decline for notebook shipments from the top 6 OEMs worldwide during the same period.

In moving to Intel's 32-nanometer (nm) Sandy Bridge architecture, the mid-2011 MacBook Airs will jettison two-year-old Penryn-based 45-nm Core 2 Duo chips for the chipmakers' new line (below) of low-voltage and ultra-low-voltage Core i5 and Core i7 chips, which sport between 3MB and 4MB of Smart Cache and support a theoretical maximum of 8GB of internal system memory.




Should Apple follow its current trend of using ultra-low-variants for the 11.6-inch MacBook Air and low-voltage ones for the 13.3-inch models, consumers can expect to see new 11.6-inch MacBook Airs sporting 1.4GHz to 1.6GHz Core i5 and Core i7 chips and 13.3-inch MacBook Airs with 2.10 and 2.30GHz Core i7 processors.

In a report shared with AppleInsider last week, Kuo also noted that production of Apple's legacy white MacBook model has been on a steady decline since the start of the year, with shipments falling 10% and 50% in February and March, respectively. As such, it's likely that Apple will similarly need to make some form of announcement regarding the future of this offering sometime in the coming months.

Ridley
May 6, 2011, 09:53 AM
Yep only in "testing."

YOu really have to qualify these sunny projections. They show up in benchmarks and tests, but not in day to day use so much.

Exactly. No one knows when the next model is coming. Stop treating it as a given is all I said. And stop pretending like SB cpus will make your machine 50% faster across the board.


What does that even mean? I would think that tests and benchmarks would be how to measure? No? It is not a "sunny projection" it is an actual design by Intel and test, measure, interpret, confirmation by Intel and independent third parties that one chip is x% faster clock-for-clock than another. That said, if people think that when a chip is measured to be say 44% faster, that literally everything done on the computer is 44% faster (day to day use as you say)... well, no one thinks that. Its not like i open word 44% faster and open web pages 44% faster ("across the board" as you say). That's not how computers work. Again i think most people know that though and its even called out in the benchmarks the conditions for which the performance measure applies.

Also you say no one knows when the next model is coming out? Are you serious!? The name of this website is "MacRumors"... please believe that there are people at Apple, manufacturers, and suppliers that know when the next model is coming. These people are supposed to keep the information secret. BUT, sometimes it leaks out, sometimes people pretend it leaks out and it hasn't, in either case it becomes a Rumor.

People talk about a June release date because of the rumors, and also discuss the validity of the rumors. Someone posted the information form this article to this thread. http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/04/22/apple_to_begin_production_of_thunderbolt_macbook_airs_next_month.html

Again rumors are not guarantee's! If you can find pseudo credible rumors that the June release isn't happening, please post and people will gladly discuss. If you don't like discussing and speculating about rumors.... well... yeah

KPOM
May 6, 2011, 10:11 AM
With today's rumors, perhaps we need a "Should I wait for the ARM MacBook Air?" thread. j/k. :D

trip1ex
May 6, 2011, 11:49 AM
What does that even mean? blah blah blah

Also you say no one knows when the next model is coming out? Are you serious!?

blah blah blah

Again rumors are not guarantee's!

blah


It means what it says. IT's obvious that numbers in tests don't reflect real world usage much for most users. Also most folks don't care if something like video encoding gets done in 10 minutes vs 15 minutes if they aren't encoding all the time.

Surfing, word processing, spreadsheets, presentations, light photo work, email etc aren't going to be sped up any.

The brute force power of an 11" MBA will still heavily lag desktops and bigger laptops anyway. I don't think anyone is buying an MBA for power in the first place.

And yes rumors are no guarantees. That's my point. It's a rumor. Don't forget that. Many have truth to them. Many are accurate. Some aren't. You still hear the Apple hdtv rumors and crap like that.

Even MacRumors buying guide doesn't say not buy at this point.

Now as I said I would look for a discount to list price. I guess I do that anyway, but the further you get into a cycle the more I would look for a discount and the bigger discount I would want.

IF you go on Ebay you find used 11" MBAs from reputable sellers in the low $800s. With the 10% back in Ebay bucks you can save another $80ish. No tax. Still have half a warranty left. YOu're looking at $250 cheaper than what new MBAs will priced at in a month.

That's a hedge against new MBAs coming out soon in my book. If they come out great. If you then want a new one, sell your old one and be out a few bucks at worst.

I think when you recommend waiting etc you need to base it on more than just a rumor that new ones might come out in a month. YOu need know the going price of the current ones, what deals are there, what does the user need the machine for and does the person need a machine now.

And say new MBAs come out in June then well you might as well wait until July until LION comes out. But no guarantee there either. Then maybe it turns into August and soon you've waited 3 months to save a few bucks and you've just hit a new wall of rumors that say a new MBPs are coming in another few months.

I hope new MBAs come out. I'm glad I got my new 11" MBA. But I paid less than $800. Hedged myself.

If the new ones come out soon, I'll craiglist my old if I want a new one. If I do lose a few bucks I would expect it to be very little and would chalk that up to a few months usage.

Hence I wouldn't tell anyone to not buy an MBA now. I would tell them to buy now at a great price.

Cheffy Dave
May 6, 2011, 12:00 PM
LOL, you didn't mention heat and fan noise once in your post, just speed, speed and more speed.

With the power and speed you speak of heat and fan noise come with that. Is the MBA capable to manage the heat from the added power? We're not sure. If I had to say one way or the other I'd say no, based on what I've read SB in it's current state would turn the little 11" Air into a frying pan.

Think SB doesn't run a (lot) warmer? Go read in the MBP forum, on the first page there's people posting who wish they'd of kept their C2D MBP's ... because of excess heat and really loud fans. I had a 17" MBP quad core for a short time, the fans roared and it ran much warmer than the C2D 15" MBP's in our offices....

So "tick tock" the reality of it all is I've had my MacBook Air since it's release on October 20th, you still don't have one ... tick tock ... and what guarantee to do have that Apple will introduce a SB Air in July, couldn't it easily be July, August, September, October or even skip it and wait for the revised and cooler running Ivy Bridge .... tick tock ... you're still waiting.

So in reality, Cheffy Dave's point is right on, and by the way ... tick tock he has his MacBook now too ... you don't.

Seriously, these 'wait for SB' and 'Future Proofing' threads crack me up. To begin with Apple is the most unpredictable company on the planet when it comes to product updates, and the rumors and speculation are rarely close.

See it. Like it. Buy it. Enjoy!!

Amen, well put!

Ridley
May 7, 2011, 09:20 AM
I am trying to discuss the topic of this thread about the merits of Sandy Bridge over Core 2 Duo and whether that is worth the wait. With all respect, if you are going to reply to my thread please read it first. Because you asked, and for the purpose of discussion, I'll summarize it

It means what it says. IT's obvious that numbers in tests don't reflect real world usage much for most users. Also most folks don't care if something like video encoding gets done in 10 minutes vs 15 minutes if they aren't encoding all the time.

Surfing, word processing, spreadsheets, presentations, light photo work, email etc aren't going to be sped up any.


Because I already wrote that a speed increase in a particular benchmark ONLY applies to THAT test and DOESN'T apply to everything. Verbatim..
That said, if people think that when a chip is measured to be say 44% faster, that literally everything done on the computer is 44% faster (day to day use as you say)... well, no one thinks that. Its not like i open word 44% faster and open web pages 44% faster ("across the board" as you say). That's not how computers work. Again i think most people know that though and its even called out in the benchmarks the conditions for which the performance measure applies.


Lol, how about whenever anyone wants to release a new processor, we'll just abandon all tests, science, math, and metrics. Instead we'll put the chip inside a computer, give it to trip1ex, and he'll tell us accurately, and definitely how much faster or slower it FEELS to him for the tasks that HE likes to do on a computer. Wouldn't that make a lot more sense for you? haha, for you maybe, but for the rest of the world... We have been using tests as a way to standardize and compare processors for decades. Seeing as how this thread is debating the difference in the chips, I think the benchmarks would be relevant for discussion.

And before you fly off the handle, I'll say this one more time.... a processor benchmark ONLY applies to the conditions of the test used to derive that benchmark. Just because SB is x% faster at rendering a video, doesn't mean its also that much faster at browsing the web, or looking at picture. I actually still use a Merom MBP from 2006 because its plenty fast for what I need to do most of the time so can't warrant a new machine yet. So you don't need to explain to me what everyday / real world computing means.

Even MacRumors buying guide doesn't say not buy at this point.

Ok, so please understand how Buyers guide is calculated. It is solely a function of avg days between upgrades. It does not in any way factor in speculation of rumors, external issues like the ending of relationships with Nvidea, or availability of Core 2 Duos, etc. That said an 8 month release for an Air has happened before, and June releases of laptops in time for back to school occur very often (as you'll see from the buyers guide). The buyers guide formula works well if Apple updates a product with regular frequency, but breaks if it is sporadic or if no historical data exists.

Now as I said I would look for a discount to list price. I guess I do that anyway, but the further you get into a cycle the more I would look for a discount and the bigger discount I would want.

IF you go on Ebay you find used 11" MBAs from reputable sellers in the low $800s. With the 10% back in Ebay bucks you can save another $80ish. No tax. Still have half a warranty left. YOu're looking at $250 cheaper than what new MBAs will priced at in a month.

That's a hedge against new MBAs coming out soon in my book.

Hmm, that is a really interesting theory. And I thank you for providing the facts and figures. Perhaps you can post a new thread to discuss it. Maybe there is a degree of "efficiency" (like stock price) built into these product prices. That said I don't follow how:
big discounts -> means near end of cycle -> current big discounts on ebay -> means not near end of cycle -> means June release not happening ?

Anyway that is kind of besides the point. I'd encourage you to start a new thread with your theory here and explain it a little more. Thanks.

LOL, you didn't mention heat and fan noise once in your post, just speed, speed and more speed.

If I had to say one way or the other I'd say no, based on what I've read SB in it's current state would turn the little 11" Air into a frying pan.

Think SB doesn't run a (lot) warmer? Go read in the MBP forum, on the first page there's people posting who wish they'd of kept their C2D MBP's ...

So in reality, Cheffy Dave's point is right on, and by the way ... tick tock he has his MacBook now too ... you don't.


You do realize that a Sandy Bridge Air would use a completely different processor than the current Sandy Bridge pros right? I don't see how the MBP forums would apply...

Also, wow, that is in no way what a tick-tock cycle means! Please read the post before replying!

Cheffy Dave
May 7, 2011, 09:57 AM
I would LOVE it if Apple just broke down and bought AMD, lock stock and barrel. kept everyone on, designed killer chips/chipsets for itself, designed custom chips for others, and took graphics to the next level:eek:
It could even be a separate division, called A(Apple)AMD=AAMD. Apple would own computing, could go their own way, with out being limited to INTEL's Vision.
Lets see Intel play dirty with that monster!

Danindub
May 7, 2011, 10:42 AM
I think that the current Core 2 Duo is a great low powered processor. But, I really don't think that it is worth the price. I don't really think that it will provide the power that my 2.4 ghz Core 2 Duo can provide. But my concern with a core i processor in an air (with no fans) would be it would get very hot. what do you guys think?:apple:

May I just say you're wrong. I have both - Pro 2.4 GHz and Air 2.1 Ghz. Interestingly additional cache (6 MB) in the Air brings it's performance very close to 2.4 GHz. In benchmarks it gets a little bit less than CPU of Pro, but scores higher for graphics for some reason (despite both being GeForce 320M).

It is very clear that overall performance benefit of SSD over hard drive makes Air just faster in general.

Also - MacBook Air does have fan. And it becomes very clear if you play games on Air :)

nebulos
May 7, 2011, 05:46 PM
Ridley and others,

Give it up. No one wants to hear your crazy theories based on 'facts' and 'figures'. Go use your filthy logic and reason elsewhere. The MBA forum is simply not the place for these.

The new MBA will NOT be better than the current MBA. That doesn't make any sense. Apple simply feels the graphics power of the current MBA is too good, which is the only reason they'd go with Sandy Bridge, for the terrible IGP.

It makes no difference, of course, as a new MBA will NEVER be released; You can guess all you want, and while convergent speculation, including from those that have been accurate in the past, can be an excellent predictor, we shouldn't have to remind you that MacRumors.com is simply not the place for discussing rumors about Macs; Please review the forum rules!

In any case, we should ALL agree on what we want from a computer, namely, precisely what is offered currently. If you think you need more CPU, you are just ignorant. If you think that a Sandy Bridge CPU that performs 50%-100% better than the C2D, will perform 50%-100% better when placed in the MBA, ... i mean, i don't even know what to say; I just feel bad for you.

But, okay, let's pretend that an updated MBA would actually be better in some way, why would you possibly wait for it anyways? Clearly, waiting ONE month is obviously equal to waiting FOREVER, so you will never have a computer. Do you want a computer now or never? Your choice, bub.

Remember: Science doesn't prove anything.

MBABuyer
May 7, 2011, 06:01 PM
I didnt get it at first, sorry nebulos, hahaha....I didnt read carefully

BigShoe43
May 7, 2011, 08:34 PM
Nice sarcasm Nebulos I sensed it :D

IngerMan
May 7, 2011, 08:42 PM
I got it :cool:

nebulos
May 7, 2011, 10:14 PM
Interesting that you say that Nebulos, because I hope that you do realize you are 100% incorrect in what you just said.


Listen "MBABuyer", ... if that is your real name,

Everything I said, have said before, and have yet to say in these forums is 100% correct.

... You wanna know why?

Because joining this forum automatically made me an authority on all things Macbook Air, Apple at large, and technology in general for that matter. The instant i post my opinions in one of these threads, the universe is altered instantaneously such that they become fact. if i say one thing, then i say the opposite, THEY ARE BOTH RIGHT. agree with me? YOU ARE STILL WRONG.

when i tell you you are misinformed, stupid, should drown yourself in a recently used toilet, it's not because i think i'm better than you. it's because i am better than you, but since you can't figure that out on your own, i have to spell it out for you; which, let me tell you, gets tiresome fast. i do have better things to do then spend my Saturday nights educating you people!

which reminds me, ugh, i forgot to mention heat. a lot of you are worried about this. i can assure you that this question can be put to rest once and for all. in fact, i had a dream last night:

... i was in the tub. but instead of water, it was liquid metal. i was using one of the many effective available styluses to write a list of reasons that PCs are stupid on my iPad, when i heard a loud crash in my yard, an absurd boom, like a brontosaurus had fallen from the sky.

i ran out, naked, and was enveloped in a deep blue light. all the stars in the sky were now hovering about a slim figure not 20 feet away. my neighbor's cat and dog set about making puppy-kittens.

the figure approached me. i froze. the cat and dog went on.

a few steps closer, ... i could make something out. ... was it? ... yes! it was him! i couldn't believe it, and i had to wipe all the jelly from my eyes to make sure, but indeed, it was him. the glasses, the turtleneck, the "SJ" on his chest, there was no doubt, it was him.

then he spoke:

"NEBULOS."

"... yes?"

"COME CLOSER."

"... yes."

"DO YOU FEAR ME?"

"yes."

"DO YOU REALIZE I CAN DESTROY YOU WITH A SINGLE MULTITOUCH GESTURE?"

"yes."

"GOOD. ... HAVE YOU HEARD THE SPECULATION ABOUT A POTENTIAL SANDY BRIDGE MACBOOK AIR?"

"yes."

"IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WOULD PLEASE YOU?"

"yes."

"DO YOU REALIZE I DON'T CARE, ONE WAY OR THE OTHER? THAT YOU MEAN NOTHING TO ME? THAT I HAVE AN ARMY OF IPHONE CONSUMERS THAT WILL EAT YOU ALIVE FOR A $0.99 CREDIT AT THE APP STORE?"

"yes."

"I MEAN, SERIOUSLY, DO YOU THINK FOR A SECOND THAT YOU OR ANYONE ELSE CAN SAY ANYTHING OTHER THAN 'YES' TO ME?"

"... um, ... no?"

"SILENCE!"

"yes! yes! yes!"

"NOW THEN, WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW WHAT THE CODENAME 'SANDY BRIDGE' WAS CODE FOR?"

"yes."

"WOULD YOU REALLY LIKE TO KNOW?"

"... yes?"

"IT WAS CODE FOR: 'SANDY DESERT BRIDGE ... TO HELL'!!!, ... THE DESERT AND HELL BOTH BEING EXTREMELY HOT PLACES; SANDY BRIDGE PROCESSORS ARE THE HOTTEST CPU'S EVER CREATED! ... DO YOU GET IT?"

"yes."

"DO YOU REALIZE THAT THE CURRENT 11" MBA USES A 10W TDP CPU?"

"yes."

"DO YOU REALIZE THAT THE LOWEST VOLTAGE SANDY BRIDGE CPU IS 17W?"

"yes."

"DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THE 320M CONTRIBUTES TO THE OVERALL TDP OF THE CURRENT 11" MBA, SO THAT A TOTAL OF 17W, WHICH INCLUDES THE INTEL 3000HD IGP, SEEMS, AS HAS BEEN POINTED OUT MANY TIMES, EXTREMELY FEASIBLE, IF NOT CONSERVATIVE?"

"yes."

"BUT, 17 IS BIGGER THAN 10, IS IT NOT???!!!"

" ... yes."

"THEN SHUT UP! I'M GOING HOME!"

and in an instant, he was gone, and all that was left was the faintest smell of butterfly blood.

MBABuyer
May 7, 2011, 10:32 PM
hahaha wow, that took some time :D

And, I knew you were being sarcastic ahaha :rolleyes:

That was my favorite post of the day!!!!!

You made me laugh,
Swayne

TrollToddington
May 8, 2011, 01:32 AM
Honestly, Nebulos is right. There are quite a few digital souls around who think their divine core 2 duo is fast enough - no need for a new processor, and the 320m is the best thing since sliced bread. All they use their MBA for is web browsing and text document creation - kinda ultra expensive typewriter. They do not think for a second other people might want to use the same computer for much more intensive computing tasks. For example, in another thread Scottsdale complained about the "incredibly ridiculous posts" around here whose "inaccuracies are really absurd, and those false points don't help anyone learn anything or make qualified decisions". As if someone should make a qualified decision based on what they have read on a rumors site. Unsurprisingly, Scottsdale added to the soup by claiming that a NVIDIA-based MBA is most likely far superior. (Check out this post (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=12517631&postcount=31) for reference.)

Some go even further by claiming Apple has built up a huge pile of Core-2-duos and is going to use them till the cows come home. This would be my nightmare come true.

I wish the computer technology had stopped developing since 80286. The 80386SX was crap and the computer industry has been going rapidly downhill since then. The old CGA monitors did not require lightning fast video cards. DOS 3.30 wasn't a bad OS at all. The worst of all is that I have to spend $1000 on a new computer each 3 years in order to get the same work done, to run the same programs, which take the same amount of time to get the same amount of work done.

Ridley
May 8, 2011, 10:39 PM
Ridley and others,




Everything I said, have said before, and have yet to say in these forums is 100% correct.


LMAO!! Thank you, we all needed that! You sir, are an artist

Everything about that killed me! Especially the TDP and SJ shirt!

Henry Spencer
May 9, 2011, 12:44 AM
agree with me? YOU ARE STILL WRONG.

Lol... Thats the best post ive seen on MR yet!

GekkePrutser
May 9, 2011, 04:50 AM
Because joining this forum automatically made me an authority on all things Macbook Air, Apple at large, and technology in general for that matter. The instant i post my opinions in one of these threads, the universe is altered instantaneously such that they become fact. if i say one thing, then i say the opposite, THEY ARE BOTH RIGHT. agree with me? YOU ARE STILL WRONG.


ROFL!!! You should be a writer.

On Topic: @TrollToddington: I can't imagine Apple stockpiling massive amounts C2D's. In the IT industry any large amounts of stock is a big risk because the depreciation is so high due to the quick innovation in the industry. Which is why many large hardware companies (like Dell) now only order the parts when you order the computer.

I know Apple doesn't follow the same principle but I can't imagine them stockpiling massive amounts of chips. Also they want to push thunderbolt, which the C2D doesn't support.

alecgold
May 9, 2011, 05:24 AM
To get back on topic, I bought the 13" MBA ultimate. Why? Because I needed then and there a new laptop.
What I do with it is working all day long (the battery is really good, when I'm careful, I can easily get 7 hours and sometimes even 9 or more, but then I'm having almost the lowest brightness and am just writing text in Word).
Same pixel count as the 15"MBP is a big extra for me, it makes the screen so much more usable!
I also use Parallels with XP (often 2 XP's running) and the word, excel, mail, safari and the other regular things.
This laptop works for me (and I think for most regular consumer and regular business users) because it does everything I need to.
Video looks good as well.
There is one drawback so far. First if you start to do some more intensive work the battery takes a good hit, IMHO a bigger hit than my MBP13" from 2009 I had before (I dropped it and died slowly on me). The C2D on the MBA seems to need to work harder to do the same as the MBP13" C2D.
Just one bit of a worry is how future proof it will be. I'm not sure if it will go very well with Lion combined with the future need to use Vista/windows 7 in parallels because XP isn't "good enough" anymore for some programs. We'll see.

So for the uses OP stated this will work perfect, but I would have rather had the choice to wait a few months for a LV or ULVi5 and then pick either the i5 or the 320m.

vader_slri
May 9, 2011, 09:05 AM
<snip>
"DO YOU REALIZE I CAN DESTROY YOU WITH A SINGLE MULTITOUCH GESTURE?"

"yes."

<snip>


ROFLMAO!!

Nebulos, this should be nominated for post of the year. Thanks for the laugh this morning. :D