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c1phr
May 30, 2011, 01:24 AM
I've been looking around the web at comparisons of these two bodies, and I'm still at a loss of which might be best (based on a few different things). I won't be buying either camera for a little while however.

First and foremost: I'm a photographer, so I want a photographer's camera, not a camera that hybridizes between photos and video.

Existing Canon gear: I'm upgrading from an EOS 10D (!!), so I have the kit lens for that (it's been adequate for what I've needed so far) which is an EF 28-135mm 3.5-5.6 USM. I also have a Speedlite 420ex (e-ttl).

Existing Nikon gear: 2 lenses left over from the film days (on an N65). A Nikkor 28-80mm 3.3-5.6 and a Quantary (Sigma rebrand) 70-300mm 4-5.6 and an offbrand external flash (which works in optical slave with my 420ex and has manual settings).

I've used the D7000 (borrowed for an assignment a few weeks ago) and absolutely loved it, the ergonomics of the dual wheels for full manual shooting was just perfect. The Canon spin wheel on the back of the camera is a little more difficult for me, as I'm a left-eyed shooter. But, I'm used to the Canon build and I was able to try a 60D in Best Buy one day, which felt pretty good in the hand (or at least, as good as possible with the big anti-left cord coming out of the bottom).

Pros for the 60D: I already have a lens for it (as well as a set of 72mm filters) and I can buy the 50mm prime I want now and use it until I get the new body. I can control my 420ex wirelessly from the pop-up (and in turn the other flashgun). However, I don't shoot with flash that much, as I generally do landscape photography and I'm far from a strobist in any sense. The 60D is also cheaper.

Pros for the D7000: Awesome AF, Mag-Alloy body, more ergonomic. Dual SD slots. I lose of my flashguns this way though, and I have to buy a whole new lens or deal with the awful kit lens.


So I'm wondering from this information, and personal experience, what would you guys say would be the better path for me? Thanks so much!



OreoCookie
May 30, 2011, 03:49 AM
You should go with the body that feels better in your hands in my opinion. Both cameras are very, very powerful tools.

However, you should invest in glass rather than a body, no matter what company you go for. Both, the D7000 and the 60D require good lenses, because their sensors resolve flaws in lenses much better than anything else. There is no comparison to the 10D you're using now. So even if you go Canon, I recommend you get new lenses anyway. I have lenses that are 20 years old and in perfect working condition. The only time I had a problem with a lens is when it was soaked by salt water and some salt deposited itself on one of the inner lenses. I had to have it taken apart, cleaned and reassembled.

Hence, I would recommend that you set yourself a budget and then ask for advice on what to get.

BTW: I own a D7000 and one feature that I've grown to love is the silent mode: there, the mirror flips back only after you let go of the shutter release. It really makes a difference is a lot more useful to me than the 6 fps that I get -- from a prosumer body. It's very ruggedly built and the user interface is the best I've seen since the F80: very simple, the stupid, useless scene modes no longer take up space (they could be eliminated altogether if it were up to me) and two presets (thanks Nikon for copying Canon here :)).

glocke12
May 30, 2011, 04:44 AM
Ditto the comments on the better glass and the D7000. I own a D7000, and have found that lenses that I was extremely happy with on my D90 I am not happy with on the D7000.

flosseR
May 30, 2011, 05:08 AM
x3 for the D7000 :)

Then again, I also agree with the glass on the D7000. I used my sister in Laws 18-55 kit lens just for kicks and i did not like it at all but when I used the 10-105 VR in the store it actually produced pretty good pictures IMHO. But yes, get the d7000 with the best glass you can afford. :)

peepboon
May 30, 2011, 06:01 AM
Nikon user here~ I own the D90, D7000 and D700.

The D7000 is a beast for the price. You get so much for the price!~ It feels VERY nice in the hand. I dont know if you know but you are able to use Nikon's onboard flash to wirelessly trigger other flashes (Nikon CLS).

D7000 has won a few awards, have amazing reviews under it's belt. I read a review a while ago saying that the D7000 ISO 200 is better than the D700 at ISO 200! O.O! It retains more colour and retains more detail in the shadows.

I played with Canon, although it does produce nice images, I find that the ergonomics are better on the Nikon. But as you are use to the Canon, I guess it should be ok?

+1 for D7000!

runlsd
May 30, 2011, 11:50 AM
D7000 is better than 60D in almost every aspect other than video in my opinion. And D7000 video isn't far behind. (Pentax K-5 owner here)

cleanup
May 30, 2011, 11:58 AM
I was under the impression that the Canon 7D might be a better comparison to the D7000. It is a bit more expensive, however.

That said, I adore Nikon's ergonomics, and would go for the D7000. Nikon smartly puts the zoom review buttons on the LEFT of the screen, so that you can zoom with one hand, pan with the other. It makes reviewing and deleting images in-camera extremely fast. Most Canon's, I've found, put the zoom review buttons and the pan buttons both on the right side of the screen. Not that it matters since the 60D has an articulating screen and thus the left side contains nothing. That's another reason I would go with the D7000. You said you wanted a photographer's camera, not a video camera. Get the one with better controls.

THX1139
May 30, 2011, 12:44 PM
I just sold my D90 and thought hard about replacing it with the D7000. But, unlike the OP, I have greater needs for video. So, I'm going with the 60D. I wish the Nikon had similar video as the Canon because the Nikon 7000D is the better camera.

But all this talk about bodies is moot if you don't own good lenses. I'm talking GOOD lenses... not knock offs or variable aperture zooms. Fast primes, and fast prime zooms with excellent glass cost way more than a decent camera body. If you stay on top of technology, you will replace your camera body every 3-5 years or sooner. Glass, you'll keep much much longer. It's where the money should go. The thing that makes for good photos is what is in front of the camera body, and what is behind it. ;)

cleanup
May 30, 2011, 12:51 PM
fast prime zooms

:confused:

c1phr
May 30, 2011, 01:22 PM
Thanks for all the great replies! I definitely agree on making glass the heavy investment, especially with the D7000. I agree with you cleanup on the 7d being a better comparison, unfortunately it lies outside of my price range for the time being.

@OreoCookie: I agree on the quiet mode, when I was using it on a longer exposure shot (no tripod, but braced on a wall) the mirror popping up actually shook my hands a bit. But just as you, I really don't have a use for continuous shooting.

The Nikon ergonomics are awesome, and I noticed some of you pointed that out, I felt more comfortable in an hour of using a D7000 than I was in the years I've had my 10D. Flash control isn't a huge deal to me, I can just sell my Canon speedlite.

On the question of lenses once more. As I posted above, I have a 28-80 AF 3.3-5.6G and a 70-300 4-5.6, both will AF on the D7000 since it has the motor, so I'm not concerned about that. I'm wondering if the kit lens would be of any benefit to me (since both of the lenses I posted will be affected by crop factor, as they are film full frame lenses) or if I should just get the body only?

Also, for Nikon, what would you guys recommend/prefer as a "walk-around" lens?

Thanks again for all the input!

runlsd
May 30, 2011, 02:51 PM
:confused:

ditto. fast prime zooms?? new development that I'm not aware of? :)

c1phr
May 30, 2011, 03:04 PM
ditto. fast prime zooms?? new development that I'm not aware of? :)

Haha, I assume he's probably talking about non-variable aperture zoom lenses?

flosseR
May 30, 2011, 03:34 PM
Also, for Nikon, what would you guys recommend/prefer as a "walk-around" lens?

Thanks again for all the input!
If i would choose any of the kit lenses, i would go with the 18-105VR. the focal length is pretty nice and the lens is IMHO the best of the kit lenses.

I used to have it as my walk around lens and it was really really good. I know a lot of people will make a case for primes but your 28->mm lens is not really wide and as a prim, if you have the cash, i would pick up a 50mm or a 35mm f1.8.

c1phr
May 30, 2011, 03:40 PM
If i would choose any of the kit lenses, i would go with the 18-105VR. the focal length is pretty nice and the lens is IMHO the best of the kit lenses.

I used to have it as my walk around lens and it was really really good. I know a lot of people will make a case for primes but your 28->mm lens is not really wide and as a prim, if you have the cash, i would pick up a 50mm or a 35mm f1.8.

I plan on for sure buying a 50mm 1.8 in the same order as the camera. You said you liked the 18-105VR kit lens, and a few other reviews have said similar, so I may just use that. I was just wondering if there was another lens that might be better, and if it would be worth it to me to buy the body and a walk around lens separate.

glocke12
May 30, 2011, 04:00 PM
If i would choose any of the kit lenses, i would go with the 18-105VR. the focal length is pretty nice and the lens is IMHO the best of the kit lenses.

I used to have it as my walk around lens and it was really really good. I know a lot of people will make a case for primes but your 28->mm lens is not really wide and as a prim, if you have the cash, i would pick up a 50mm or a 35mm f1.8.

I have to second the 18-105, it really is a pretty good lens for a kit lens, I regret letting go of mine.

That said, if you can swing it the 24-70 f2.8 is a SUPERB lens to put on the D7000. It actually comes out to something like 35-105 because of the crop factor, but this lens on the D7000 will literally give you images to drool over.

photographypro
May 30, 2011, 04:58 PM
I work in a camera store in Sacramento, and I shoot 3 Nikon bodies, D2X, D200, and D300S. Canon makes great equipment, but the Nikon D7000 is an amazing camera, outperforming my D300S in ISO and resolution.

Couple of things if considering the D7000 vs the 60D. The 60D is all plastic, whereas the D7000 has magnesium alloy parts. The 60D has a shutter rated to 100,000, whereas the D7000 is rated to 150,000, so while it costs a bit more, the D7000 should last 50% longer.

The D7000 will take older Nikon lens, even 30 year old lenses, whereas the Canon is limited to EOS lenses. I just bought a 55mm MF Micro f2.8 lens on Ebay for only $80- fantastic lens, and it will work on the D7000. This lens Nikon CURRENTLY SELLS for over $400. You can pick up some great deals on older lens on Ebay and Craigslist.

While I shoot all fast 2.8 zooms and primes, the 18-105mm VR kit lens is pretty good, and for only $300 extra, would be recommended until you can afford better glass. Also get a 50mm f1.8 for under $149, and you can shoot most subjects.

The Nikon D7000 is a steal of a camera for the price. If you check out kenrockwell.com, he shows how the D7000 at 16MP outperforms the D700 in resolution. :cool:

cupcakes2000
May 30, 2011, 05:13 PM
whereas the Canon is limited to EOS lenses.

I'd hardly call it limited!

THX1139
May 30, 2011, 05:19 PM
ditto. fast prime zooms?? new development that I'm not aware of? :)

Just another name for constant aperture zooms.

runlsd
May 30, 2011, 07:52 PM
Just another name for constant aperture zooms.

prime doesn't mean constant aperture. it means fixed focal length. just fyi.

Ravaroo
May 30, 2011, 07:55 PM
The Nikon D7000 is a steal of a camera for the price. If you check out kenrockwell.com, he shows how the D7000 at 16MP outperforms the D700 in resolution.

I think Ken Rockwell also advised skipping the kit lens and getting the 35mm 1.8 DX lens instead.
I was fortunate enough to get 35 1.8 before Japan went Chernobyl so I paid less than 200 for what has turned out to be a very handy lens.
My experience with the 18-105 lens has been decent.. but not spectacular by any means

Keleko
May 30, 2011, 08:20 PM
I'm going to chime in on the side of the 60D because I own one. I've been very pleased with the 18-135mm kit lens in spite of it not having a constant aperture. It is a great multi-purpose lens. I also have the 50mm f/1.8 for when it is appropriate, but I use the kit lens for most shots.

Back in the fall I was trying to make the same decision on camera models. What tipped the scale for me was having friends with Canon lenses. On two occasions I've been able to borrow a 70-200L f/2.8 for some shots. So, consider what people you know have that you can use with whatever camera you end up getting. I don't think you can go wrong with either body choice otherwise.

luminosity
May 30, 2011, 08:38 PM
I'd advise skipping Ken Rockwell. The only people who should read anything he says are those who know photography and gear well enough to form their own opinions using information not provided by him.

c1phr
May 30, 2011, 08:56 PM
I'm going to chime in on the side of the 60D because I own one. I've been very pleased with the 18-135mm kit lens in spite of it not having a constant aperture. It is a great multi-purpose lens. I also have the 50mm f/1.8 for when it is appropriate, but I use the kit lens for most shots.

Back in the fall I was trying to make the same decision on camera models. What tipped the scale for me was having friends with Canon lenses. On two occasions I've been able to borrow a 70-200L f/2.8 for some shots. So, consider what people you know have that you can use with whatever camera you end up getting. I don't think you can go wrong with either body choice otherwise.

I thought about this, but I don't really know anyone else who owns a dslr that I know well enough to borrow lenses from. Unfortunately, I'm on my own for the time being. Your kit lens is just about what I have already for my 10D, except the EF-S model (which I believe makes it lighter in the end?).

Regardless of lens, I take it you like your 60D? Do you have any issues with it or regrets over the D7000? (if you've shot one)

merkinmuffley
May 30, 2011, 10:26 PM
I'm a Canon owner (1DMKIV, 5DMKII, 7D, 40D) and a lot of glass to go with them.
I don't know how much you have in Canon glass, if it's just the one lens you mention I wouldn't worry about it. My "investment" in their lenses makes it very expensive to change brands.
If I were in your shoes, no question I'd go with the Nikon. It's a very capable camera. I started out with Nikon and stuck with them until the late 80's, when they lagged Canon and appeared to be a in a rut. Now they've come back, their D3 is IMHO the best pro DSLR you can buy right now, with the 7000 being an excellent entry into the consumer space.

glocke12
May 31, 2011, 04:55 AM
I thought about this, but I don't really know anyone else who owns a dslr that I know well enough to borrow lenses from. Unfortunately, I'm on my own for the time being. Your kit lens is just about what I have already for my 10D, except the EF-S model (which I believe makes it lighter in the end?).

Regardless of lens, I take it you like your 60D? Do you have any issues with it or regrets over the D7000? (if you've shot one)

Why not rent a D7000 and a good lens like the 24-70 f2.8, and a middle of the road lens like the 12-24 f4 and see what you think?

http://www.lensrentals.com/for-nikon

Keleko
May 31, 2011, 09:51 AM
I thought about this, but I don't really know anyone else who owns a dslr that I know well enough to borrow lenses from. Unfortunately, I'm on my own for the time being. Your kit lens is just about what I have already for my 10D, except the EF-S model (which I believe makes it lighter in the end?).

Regardless of lens, I take it you like your 60D? Do you have any issues with it or regrets over the D7000? (if you've shot one)

I'm very happy with the 60D so far. I haven't had any issues with it, but it is my first DSLR, too. I have no first-hand experience with a D7000 to compare it directly.

I really like the flip-out screen. It is much easier to frame a shot with it when the camera is on a tripod. Most of the time the camera is at an odd angle that makes it difficult to use the viewfinder. I love that I can angle the LCD for easy viewing no matter what direction the camera is pointing. I know people say go for lenses over body, but this is the one feature I knew I had to have on whatever body I ended up with.

I also like that I can mostly control the camera all with my right hand that holds the camera since my left is usually steadying the lens. Switching around the manual settings is pretty easy with the two wheels on the right side of the 60D. I don't change the camera mode knob often enough to be concerned with having free hands to do it. Ergonomics are important, so if you like the D7000's control layout better, then there's nothing wrong with picking that.

The one thing that I would caution you about the D7000 is the buffer size is smaller than the 60D. If you're shooting in high speed mode, you're not going to be able to get as many frames in before you fill the buffer as you are with the 60D. The D7000 is little faster with the frames per second, but I think the number of frames you can get in a sequence is more important overall. This was the biggest complaint about the camera that I read in reviews.

c1phr
May 31, 2011, 12:22 PM
Why not rent a D7000 and a good lens like the 24-70 f2.8, and a middle of the road lens like the 12-24 f4 and see what you think?

http://www.lensrentals.com/for-nikon

I could do that, I was just wondering if anyone here had any suggestions, or if they felt the kit lens had that covered fairly well.

I'm very happy with the 60D so far. I haven't had any issues with it, but it is my first DSLR, too. I have no first-hand experience with a D7000 to compare it directly.

I really like the flip-out screen. It is much easier to frame a shot with it when the camera is on a tripod. Most of the time the camera is at an odd angle that makes it difficult to use the viewfinder. I love that I can angle the LCD for easy viewing no matter what direction the camera is pointing. I know people say go for lenses over body, but this is the one feature I knew I had to have on whatever body I ended up with.

I also like that I can mostly control the camera all with my right hand that holds the camera since my left is usually steadying the lens. Switching around the manual settings is pretty easy with the two wheels on the right side of the 60D. I don't change the camera mode knob often enough to be concerned with having free hands to do it. Ergonomics are important, so if you like the D7000's control layout better, then there's nothing wrong with picking that.

The one thing that I would caution you about the D7000 is the buffer size is smaller than the 60D. If you're shooting in high speed mode, you're not going to be able to get as many frames in before you fill the buffer as you are with the 60D. The D7000 is little faster with the frames per second, but I think the number of frames you can get in a sequence is more important overall. This was the biggest complaint about the camera that I read in reviews.

The only thing that worries me about the ergonomics of the 60D is that I'm a left-eye shooter, so I usually have the rear wheel covered (same problem on my 10D). The articulating screen was never a huge deal breaker to me, I think I would actually prefer the fixed screen for durability.

While the continuous shooting is an issue that I've read about on the D7000 (and the 60D having an incredible buffer), I don't use continuous shooting very much at all, so it never was something I really compared as much as durability and ISO performance. Thanks for the feedback!