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roadbloc
Jun 7, 2011, 02:39 AM
May as well throw this one out there.

Do you think that Apple are removing/making it challenging to pirate Lion unlike the previous Mac OS X's which were easily available off torrent sites without the use or need of keygens or cracks, by making it an App Store download only?

GO!



Cougarcat
Jun 7, 2011, 02:43 AM
No. They changed the install to make it easier, nothing more. And they certainly didn't make it harder to pirate Lion. If anything, it's easier, since you don't have to create a disk image from the disk, you just have to extract it from the installer. No need for keygens or cracks either--there is no DRM.

mrapplegate
Jun 7, 2011, 02:45 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

Apple is always looking for ways to reduce piracy.
Take Jailbreaking your phone, there will always be smart people who find away around the limits of the Apple store distribution method.
My opinion is as long as I pay for my copy Apple wins even if it is just a little. I support the companies I admire.

Hellhammer
Jun 7, 2011, 02:55 AM
Shouldn't stop hackers from uploading it. In the end, even this kind of installer is just a file so if you get your hands on it, you can share it. The price and distribution method are good for fighting against piracy though as nobody should torrent it at that price.

Nermal
Jun 7, 2011, 03:08 AM
Shouldn't stop hackers from uploading it. In the end, even this kind of installer is just a file so if you get your hands on it, you can share it. The price and distribution method are good for fighting against piracy though as nobody should torrent it at that price.

Alas, when people pirate $1 phone apps...

superAl1394
Jun 7, 2011, 03:13 AM
Alas, when people pirate $1 phone apps...

People like that deserved to be slapped.

The one thing I think most casual pirates are uncomfortable pirating are operating systems. I imagine it will remain very limited, except for in the hackintosh community.

Hellhammer
Jun 7, 2011, 03:23 AM
Alas, when people pirate $1 phone apps...

I didn't it will stop piracy but the barrier to torrent it is much higher when the price is so low. If Lion had been 129$, I'm sure I would have torrented it. There is nothing so significant to make it worth that much. Now that it's 29$, I didn't even have to think about torrenting.

iStudentUK
Jun 7, 2011, 03:44 AM
I think the price shows two things. Firstly, it is very low so I'm very happy to buy it without feeling ripped off, some others may share that view. Secondly, at that price Apple don't seem to care that much, they probably want more people buying Mac and using their Mac-App store. Even if they don't lock Mac down to the app store they will still make lots of money off it.

Apple seems to be changing the approach. Look at the iTunes match thing, basically they are making an annual fee out of piracy.

linuxcooldude
Jun 7, 2011, 04:31 AM
Apple has always been about selling their computer systems, not so much about making money from their operating system upgrades.

They are somewhat concerned about people putting their MacOSX on non-Apple hardware as seen with Psystar.

If Lion had been 129$, I'm sure I would have torrented it. There is nothing so significant to make it worth that much. Now that it's 29$, I didn't even have to think about torrenting.

If that were such the case, why are you not using Linux? Zero cost. Obviously it must have enough worth for you to torrent it. People will often say anything to justify what they are doing.

The planning and complexity it takes to create an operating system of this caliber would far exceed the $29.00 price point. but as I said before, its to sell its computer systems, the lower price just makes it look more attractive.

maflynn
Jun 7, 2011, 05:34 AM
May as well throw this one out there.

Do you think that Apple are removing/making it challenging to pirate Lion unlike the previous Mac OS X's which were easily available off torrent sites without the use or need of keygens or cracks, by making it an App Store download only?

GO!

I'm thinking this is a move against the hackintosh community, not one they set out to do, but as a fringe benefit. Its harder (not impossible) to now upgrade a hackintosh.

mdgm
Jun 7, 2011, 06:05 AM
If that were such the case, why are you not using Linux?
Perhaps he likes Macs, Mac OS X etc. but doesn't see the "improvements" in Lion as being worth $129?

Whatever the price personally I would pay for the upgrade. I certainly wouldn't want a pirated copy that could be infected.

baryon
Jun 7, 2011, 06:34 AM
The more people use Lion, the more people use Macs, the more people use the App Store, the more money everyone makes. Apple dropped the price of OS X recently to $30, which means that they are not charging as much as it's worth anyway, because they want people to use it instead of wanting to earn back all their money by making people pay for the OS (like Microsoft).

That doesn't mean pirating is good or anything, but I think it's not a big deal when it comes to OS X. If you're a Mac user, you buys Apple products regularly anyway.

Cougarcat
Jun 7, 2011, 12:17 PM
I'm thinking this is a move against the hackintosh community, not one they set out to do, but as a fringe benefit. Its harder (not impossible) to now upgrade a hackintosh.

It's harder to buy a copy (you need a preexisting hackintosh or real mac) but the actual upgrade is no more difficult than before.)

Varigon
Jun 7, 2011, 12:22 PM
Perhaps he likes Macs, Mac OS X etc. but doesn't see the "improvements" in Lion as being worth $129?

Whatever the price personally I would pay for the upgrade. I certainly wouldn't want a pirated copy that could be infected.

Then he could stay with Snow Leopard.

vincenz
Jun 7, 2011, 01:39 PM
Alas, when people pirate $1 phone apps...

I don't even know why people bother spending the time for this...

lewis82
Jun 7, 2011, 01:44 PM
I don't even know why people bother spending the time for this...

http://theoatmeal.com/blog/apps ;)

thejadedmonkey
Jun 7, 2011, 01:49 PM
The more people use Lion, the more people use Macs, the more people use the App Store, the more money everyone makes. Apple dropped the price of OS X recently to $30, which means that they are not charging as much as it's worth anyway, because they want people to use it instead of wanting to earn back all their money by making people pay for the OS (like Microsoft).

That doesn't mean pirating is good or anything, but I think it's not a big deal when it comes to OS X. If you're a Mac user, you buys Apple products regularly anyway.

I heard that a developer only makes 25% of the price of a program after all of the other fees are taken out. So if that's true, all Apple did was remove the 75% overheard and is passing the savings along to the consumer. $30*4 = $120

For a total loss, per sale, of 9/4 or $2.25

bigjnyc
Jun 7, 2011, 04:20 PM
I dont know how anyone would feel safe installing a pirated OS, I mean anyone can dump anything in there or your whole system could crash with a bad pirated copy or some missing crucial file..... Any sort of pirating is bad but pirating your whole OS is stupid and risky as well.

joelovesapple
Jun 7, 2011, 04:29 PM
I dont know how anyone would feel safe installing a pirated OS, I mean anyone can dump anything in there or your whole system could crash with a bad pirated copy or some missing crucial file..... Any sort of pirating is bad but pirating your whole OS is stupid and risky as well.

Totally agree with you! Why even bother taking such a risk when it's so cheap anyway? I had an email from Apple telling me the price in GBP Sterling - 20.99 - practically nothing. Especially when you consider those 250 new features and 3000 API's.

wikus
Jun 7, 2011, 04:47 PM
I dont know how anyone would feel safe installing a pirated OS, I mean anyone can dump anything in there or your whole system could crash with a bad pirated copy or some missing crucial file..... Any sort of pirating is bad but pirating your whole OS is stupid and risky as well.

Not so true with OS X, the pirated copies via torrents are just clones of the retail DVD. They install exactly the same as you would with a purchased copy. And since OS X doesnt require a serial, theres no need to be paranoid about it either.

baryon
Jun 7, 2011, 04:48 PM
Totally agree with you! Why even bother taking such a risk when it's so cheap anyway? I had an email from Apple telling me the price in GBP Sterling - 20.99 - practically nothing. Especially when you consider those 250 new features and 3000 API's.

20.99? Wow! Snow Leopard was something like 27 as I remember (not sure)!

joelovesapple
Jun 7, 2011, 05:01 PM
20.99? Wow! Snow Leopard was something like 27 as I remember (not sure)!

Yes, as per an official Apple email I received today. :)

rmbrown09
Jun 7, 2011, 05:08 PM
Piracy is much too easy. I don't think I have paid for an OS since 2005 and that's been Windows and Mac, all the way to Lion now.
.... jk.....it's a joke. I'm not really a pirate. The previous message was fictitious. :rolleyes:

Nermal
Jun 7, 2011, 05:25 PM
20.99? Wow! Snow Leopard was something like 27 as I remember (not sure)!

Yeah, the NZ price for 10.7 is 33% less than 10.6 was. It's certainly a cheap upgrade this time around :)

NameUndecided
Jun 7, 2011, 05:34 PM
It seems like I'll have to wait and see if there's a way to upgrade from Leopard to Lion without pirating in some way (unless the installer won't allow to upgrade on anything but Snow Leopard anyhow). My mom has an (2008 or 09) iMac and MacBook that she never got around to upgrading to Snow Leopard. I'm under the impression that there isn't a way to have the app store on Leopard.

maybe if she wants to upgrade, I'll just help her with a "free" solution to SL so that she can upgrade to Lion. I'm sure that a better solution is bound to present itself within the next month(?).

Apple OC
Jun 7, 2011, 05:47 PM
I'm under the impression that there isn't a way to have the app store on Leopard.

The App Store is on Leopard

r0k
Jun 7, 2011, 06:03 PM
I think the price shows two things. Firstly, it is very low so I'm very happy to buy it without feeling ripped off, some others may share that view. Secondly, at that price Apple don't seem to care that much, they probably want more people buying Mac and using their Mac-App store. Even if they don't lock Mac down to the app store they will still make lots of money off it.

Apple seems to be changing the approach. Look at the iTunes match thing, basically they are making an annual fee out of piracy.

No not exactly. You can "match" any cd you have ripped. Ripping isn't always piracy, it's fair use. I have a lot of ripped cd's. I hate those darn things. They sit on a shelf down in the basement for the day I ever need to prove I own the music. Meanwhile, my car plays mp3's. My stereo plays mp3's and I can even listen to the ones I've imported into iTunes. I wonder what Apple will do when they come to the mp3 files I bought off of Amazon.com? Will they "match" those?
http://www.gracyk.com/img/columbiadiscjpg.jpg
Mainly I'm just upset that Apple won't "match" the 78 rpm records I've ripped. :D

BTW, just 'cuz Apple doesn't make your life a living hell with key numbers and activation doesn't mean they "don't care" if you pirate software. I'm hoping the "good times" continue where Apple is making lots of money without all that DRM nonsense and Apple never turns into another Microsoft.

NameUndecided
Jun 7, 2011, 06:03 PM
The App Store is on Leopard

A Google search for "mac app store leopard" today seems to back up what a Google search for the same told me yesterday. You need Snow Leopard or Lion in order to get the Mac App Store.

And there's this:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-20069379-37/leopard-users-to-purchase-snow-leopard-before-lion/

Unless I'm missing something somehow.

Anyway, if it was me and for whatever funny reason I was still using Leopard and I wanted to upgrade to Lion, then it's a safe enough bet that I'd probably be pirating Snow Leopard in order to pay for Lion. For my mom whatever she wants to do whenever she decides to upgrade. I think she'd held off on Snow Leopard long enough that she was just waiting the extra months to pay for Lion instead -- but it's not as if $60 is such an outrageous (unheard of!) amount to upgrade either.

Nermal
Jun 7, 2011, 06:11 PM
I wonder what Apple will do when they come to the mp3 files I bought off of Amazon.com? Will they "match" those?

I'm wondering about that too; hopefully I'll be able to get 256 kb/s AAC upgrades of the stuff that I've bought from Vmusic and Lala.

MattInOz
Jun 7, 2011, 08:18 PM
No not exactly. You can "match" any cd you have ripped. Ripping isn't always piracy, it's fair use. I have a lot of ripped cd's. I hate those darn things. They sit on a shelf down in the basement for the day I ever need to prove I own the music. Meanwhile, my car plays mp3's. My stereo plays mp3's and I can even listen to the ones I've imported into iTunes. I wonder what Apple will do when they come to the mp3 files I bought off of Amazon.com? Will they "match" those?
Image (http://www.gracyk.com/img/columbiadiscjpg.jpg)
Mainly I'm just upset that Apple won't "match" the 78 rpm records I've ripped. :D

BTW, just 'cuz Apple doesn't make your life a living hell with key numbers and activation doesn't mean they "don't care" if you pirate software. I'm hoping the "good times" continue where Apple is making lots of money without all that DRM nonsense and Apple never turns into another Microsoft.

Of course Steve is going to match your 78's he wants to find out what music people care about that isn't in the catalog. Then secure the rights to that music to put it on the store. I'm assuming they have a deal with some one who can do sound matching not just tag matching for better quality results (and to make sure you don't fake tracks).

I'm surprised iTunes Match doesn't have a Feature to Auto Like on ping any band who's songs average over x stars. You know just to make it easier for you (to promote sales of the bands music via iTunes).

:D

maclaptop
Jun 7, 2011, 08:21 PM
Apple has so much cash it doesn't matter anyway.

Besides it's one more person hooked into the eco system. That's where Apple easily makes it back in a flash.

BR485
Jun 8, 2011, 07:13 AM
I dont know how anyone would feel safe installing a pirated OS, I mean anyone can dump anything in there or your whole system could crash with a bad pirated copy or some missing crucial file..... Any sort of pirating is bad but pirating your whole OS is stupid and risky as well.

Leaving ethics and morality aside for a moment, finding a reliable torrented retail .dmg of 10.6.x is not difficult at all. You just have to know where to look. This will hold true for Lion as well.

bigjnyc
Jun 8, 2011, 10:29 AM
Leaving ethics and morality aside for a moment, finding a reliable torrented retail .dmg of 10.6.x is not difficult at all. You just have to know where to look. This will hold true for Lion as well.

I'm sure it can be found, but wouldn't you agree that its a big risk with your whole sytem OS... as opposed to a program or app that you can easily remove if something goes wrong.

Yamcha
Jun 8, 2011, 10:44 AM
Shouldn't stop hackers from uploading it. In the end, even this kind of installer is just a file so if you get your hands on it, you can share it. The price and distribution method are good for fighting against piracy though as nobody should torrent it at that price.

Agree, the $29.99 price should reduce piracy.. As far as distribution from Mac App store, as you mentioned someone will get around to sharing it, I don't think piracy is something that can be stopped..

Eidorian
Jun 8, 2011, 10:57 AM
Leaving ethics and morality aside for a moment, finding a reliable torrented retail .dmg of 10.6.x is not difficult at all. You just have to know where to look. This will hold true for Lion as well.I recall everyone sitting around with the gold master torrented just to see of the hashes with the retail disc images matched up. Once they did it was install away.

nicroma
Jun 8, 2011, 11:00 AM
I dont know how anyone would feel safe installing a pirated OS, I mean anyone can dump anything in there or your whole system could crash with a bad pirated copy or some missing crucial file..... Any sort of pirating is bad but pirating your whole OS is stupid and risky as well.

Not that I condone piracy, but all it takes is an SHA1 to be 100% sure that the file uploaded is the legit thing and that it hasn't been modified in any way.

This should be used (or at the very least an MD5) when downloading anything in question, especially large files.

appleguy123
Jun 8, 2011, 11:06 AM
20.99? Wow! Snow Leopard was something like 27 as I remember (not sure)!

Does Apple avoid the VAT with the Appstore?:cool::D

(marc)
Jun 8, 2011, 11:46 AM
If they don't release Lion on DVD I'm going to pirate it because:

I don't have an App Store account
I boycott the App Store because of its DRM


I dont know how anyone would feel safe installing a pirated OS, I mean anyone can dump anything in there or your whole system could crash with a bad pirated copy or some missing crucial file..... Any sort of pirating is bad but pirating your whole OS is stupid and risky as well.

That's why you download from a trusted source and not from anyone. Of course, whom you trust is up to you. :cool:

Cougarcat
Jun 8, 2011, 11:54 AM
If they don't release Lion on DVD I'm going to pirate it because:

I don't have an App Store account
I boycott the App Store because of its DRM




Just so you know, the Lion installer doesn't have DRM. You can copy it onto a flash drive and do whatever you want with it. (Might change in the final version but I doubt it.)

Dwalls90
Jun 8, 2011, 01:04 PM
I didn't it will stop piracy but the barrier to torrent it is much higher when the price is so low. If Lion had been 129$, I'm sure I would have torrented it. There is nothing so significant to make it worth that much. Now that it's 29$, I didn't even have to think about torrenting.

I agree in some respects. I don't steal software, but I also wouldn't pay $129 for Lion, so I would just stay with Snow Leopard. I think by Apple trusting, and making it $29, I definitely will pay for it and buy it on launch day. Micro$oft can't say the same thing, have they ever had a fully loaded OS for even less than $99 in the past 10 years?

Cougarcat
Jun 8, 2011, 01:05 PM
Micro$oft can't say the same thing, have they ever had a fully loaded OS for even less than $99 in the past 10 years?

You pay Apple when you buy their hardware. Also, OS X has more releases than Windows, so if you buy every one, it comes to about the same.

Sodner
Jun 8, 2011, 01:10 PM
Apple has always been about selling their computer systems, not so much about making money from their operating system upgrades.


Sounds dumb but I agree. They practically give away the OS is hopes you'll run out and buy their latest $2000 MBP or iMAC. Their money is in hardware.

Eidorian
Jun 8, 2011, 01:14 PM
I agree in some respects. I don't steal software, but I also wouldn't pay $129 for Lion, so I would just stay with Snow Leopard. I think by Apple trusting, and making it $29, I definitely will pay for it and buy it on launch day. Micro$oft can't say the same thing, have they ever had a fully loaded OS for even less than $99 in the past 10 years?The OEM copies of Windows can be found at retail ranging $79-99 the Home versions. That has been the case for at least the past 7 years.

Just so you know, the Lion installer doesn't have DRM. You can copy it onto a flash drive and do whatever you want with it. (Might change in the final version but I doubt it.)As long hashes match up between the disk images, Apple does not appear to be taking any measures against piracy.

Lord Appleseed
Jun 8, 2011, 01:15 PM
FIghting Piracy is pretty useless. One who wants to pirate will always find a way. Personally, as I am not without guilt in that matter, I always buy the software I like. If not i remove it again.
And 29,99$ for Lion is more than worth it.

ssdeg7
Jun 8, 2011, 01:54 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

Apple is always looking for ways to reduce piracy.
Take Jailbreaking your phone, there will always be smart people who find away around the limits of the Apple store distribution method.
My opinion is as long as I pay for my copy Apple wins even if it is just a little. I support the companies I admire.

Me too, i'd pay 30 bucks for such an incredible software, it takes a lot of work and should be rewarded.

Sodner
Jun 8, 2011, 02:08 PM
Agree, the $29.99 price should reduce piracy.. As far as distribution from Mac App store, as you mentioned someone will get around to sharing it, I don't think piracy is something that can be stopped..

People, plenty of them, pirate .99 apps. For sure they are going to pirate Lion. Some people, a few I have run across on here, just believe they have a right to anything and everything regardless of if its illegal or not. They always find some crazy way to legitimize their thievery. (At least in their own minds.)

California King
Jun 9, 2011, 03:40 AM
Me too, i'd pay 30 bucks for such an incredible software, it takes a lot of work and should be rewarded.

I agree with you, but what about the argument that iOS software upgrades are completely free?

BR485
Jun 10, 2011, 02:11 AM
I'm sure it can be found, but wouldn't you agree that its a big risk with your whole sytem OS... as opposed to a program or app that you can easily remove if something goes wrong.

I would agree that newbies and casual users (the majority?) are at risk.

I mean look at how many people fell for the MacDefender "malware" (scareware is more accurate) ruse. Entering an admin password or clicking 'Install' whenever a random prompt pops up is just plain stupid.

But experienced users don't fall for MD type crap and can pretty much find clean pirated copies of any app or recent OS. I'm not saying I condone this, but, for example, when I misplaced my SL disk I easily found a good copy of the retail DVD to use until I found my legit copy again.

Ktscheinqe
Jun 10, 2011, 03:48 AM
Yeah, the NZ price for 10.7 is 33% less than 10.6 was. It's certainly a cheap upgrade this time around :)

10.6, 10.7 are just names (using "numeral" characters).
you'd have to calculate a rate of cost per value & time duration. (but value is too subjective.)

Bernard SG
Jun 10, 2011, 04:02 AM
Apple is not a company that is obsessively concerned about fighting piracy. That's my feeling anyway.
Isn't there a story where they provided a software update to fix some non-legit copies of iWorks that had a Trojan?
Same goes with the whole iTunes Match thing.
Also it's not like they're trying hard to go after hackers who release iOS Jailbreaks.
Of course, in public discourse they're against it but internally, it just seems they accept piracy as a fact of tech life.

Ktscheinqe
Jun 10, 2011, 04:17 AM
I agree in some respects. I don't steal software, but I also wouldn't pay $129 for Lion, so I would just stay with Snow Leopard. I think by Apple trusting, and making it $29, I definitely will pay for it and buy it on launch day. Micro$oft can't say the same thing, have they ever had a fully loaded OS for even less than $99 in the past 10 years?

win1,2,3.x? does anyone know?
i think win95 was $95 and 98 was $89? (and winme?) but i think all others have retail stickered at $99

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_XP
Release date
RTM: August 24, 2001
Retail: October 25, 2001
Extended Support until April 8, 2014
Security updates will be provided free of cost.

i watched for the usual $10 off price for xp home sp2 upgrade (cd from preinstalled win98se qualified for upgrade xp price. win98 was included in pc price). so, i think i paid $80, before sales tax.
i bought FAR AV a few more times, but since and otherwise, the pc has needed only donationware/f/oss.

ms xp is like apple tiger. like a f-150 or toyota pickup.

also in recent years, both apple amd ms have had the 3seat deals. ("family pack")

i've read that arch, crunchbang, mint, debian, *buntu, etc are even cheaper...

Ktscheinqe
Jun 10, 2011, 04:19 AM
The App Store is on Leopard
so, your $27 ($30 whatever) purchase includes a retail operation.

Ktscheinqe
Jun 10, 2011, 04:24 AM
Perhaps he likes Macs, Mac OS X etc. but doesn't see the "improvements" in Lion as being worth $129?

Whatever the price personally I would pay for the upgrade. I certainly wouldn't want a pirated copy that could be infected.
also you get all of that goo piling up on your shoulder.
and we all know why pirates wear eye patches. ran out of crackers one day... didn't dodge the hungry parrot fast enough.
yeah.

Ktscheinqe
Jun 10, 2011, 04:31 AM
I dont know how anyone would feel safe installing a pirated OS, I mean anyone can dump anything in there or your whole system could crash with a bad pirated copy or some missing crucial file..... Any sort of pirating is bad but pirating your whole OS is stupid and risky as well.

can you get the lowlowlowlowlow upgrade price by upgrading the last tiger to 10.7? (I'm assuming the first intels were the last tiger)

BR485
Jun 10, 2011, 05:20 AM
Apple is not a company that is obsessively concerned about fighting piracy.

I agree. I think it's because, unlike MS, Adobe etc., Apple is also in the hardware business.

If you decide to download or borrow a copy of OS X their loss in minimal since you've likely already dropped a couple thousand on the Apple hardware required to run Apple software.

The hackintosh community isn't big enough to seriously dent Apple's bottom line and a number of hackintosh users probably end up eventually buying genuine Apple hardware.

silexh
Jun 10, 2011, 08:49 AM
I can imagine why people would pirate Lion and .99$ apps. I myself don't have a credit card - and won't get one just for the app store. This leaves me with a few things I can do:


I could pirate lion, with a reliable internet connection, this would be a very easy thing to do, and quite safe if you are a bit careful and know your way around such things.
Buy a gift card, either online (using a payment method of my choosing, i.e. Paypal/iDeal) or at a shop (lion has a lovely price of 23.99, which makes it ideal for a 25 gift card).

The latest option is the option I will choose (by going to a shop). It will cost me about 30minutes extra, so I'll have Lion in 1 hour 30 minutes.
This doesn't seem like a lot, because I live about 10 minutes from the nearest shop. I'm certain this isn't the case for most people, and for people who know their way around the internet pirating would be much more convenient.
This is even more true of a 99 cents app (imagine what you would do without a credit card or click&buy - how would you grab that app?)

I'm not saying pirating is better or something - just that it's more convenient, which is the main problem of digital distribution.

TheAppleDragon
Jun 10, 2011, 09:23 AM
I can imagine why people would pirate Lion and .99$ apps. I myself don't have a credit card - and won't get one just for the app store. This leaves me with a few things I can do:


I could pirate lion, with a reliable internet connection, this would be a very easy thing to do, and quite safe if you are a bit careful and know your way around such things.
Buy a gift card, either online (using a payment method of my choosing, i.e. Paypal/iDeal) or at a shop (lion has a lovely price of €23.99, which makes it ideal for a €25 gift card).

The latest option is the option I will choose (by going to a shop). It will cost me about 30minutes extra, so I'll have Lion in 1 hour 30 minutes.
This doesn't seem like a lot, because I live about 10 minutes from the nearest shop. I'm certain this isn't the case for most people, and for people who know their way around the internet pirating would be much more convenient.
This is even more true of a 99 cents app (imagine what you would do without a credit card or click&buy - how would you grab that app?)

I'm not saying pirating is better or something - just that it's more convenient, which is the main problem of digital distribution.
You know iTunes Giftcards work with the Mac App Store, the iOS App Store, and the iTunes Store, right? Get an iTunes Giftcard and you can get stuffs elsewhere at the same time. :p

-------

I don't understand why someone would Pirate Lion, unless of course they could not access the Mac App Store or could not use a credit card. Even then, I'd just go out and buy a $30-$50 iTunes card, get Lion, shred the $30 or use the difference in the $50 and then shred it, and I would technically be paying for it. :p

Wait... that wouldn't work with the $50. nvm on that one. :p

silexh
Jun 10, 2011, 09:41 AM
I don't understand why someone would Pirate Lion, unless of course they could not access the Mac App Store or could not use a credit card. Even then, I'd just go out and buy a $30-$50 iTunes card, get Lion, shred the $30 or use the difference in the $50 and then shred it, and I would technically be paying for it. :p

Wait... that wouldn't work with the $50. nvm on that one. :p
My point exactly :D

Though I would certainly like it if apple would let me pay with either Paypal or iDeal (like Steam).
Many people from my generation (I'm 20 years old) don't have a credit card (actually I don't know anyone of remotely my age who has one), so gift cards are the only good option :eek:, Apple is missing a lot of potential customers that way :eek:.

MalcolmJID
Jun 15, 2011, 12:54 PM
I'm curious as to how Apple will handle it when a person appears with Lion on their machine, and signs in using their real iTunes account. Surely they'd see that that person hasn't bought it from the App Store and therefore that iTunes account isn't licensed to run 10.7?

Cougarcat
Jun 15, 2011, 12:58 PM
I'm curious as to how Apple will handle it when a person appears with Lion on their machine, and signs in using their real iTunes account. Surely they'd see that that person hasn't bought it from the App Store and therefore that iTunes account isn't licensed to run 10.7?

I doubt they'd check or care.

Lord Appleseed
Jun 15, 2011, 01:00 PM
I'm curious as to how Apple will handle it when a person appears with Lion on their machine, and signs in using their real iTunes account. Surely they'd see that that person hasn't bought it from the App Store and therefore that iTunes account isn't licensed to run 10.7?

Since I don't think its forbidden to install a legal Lion copy on several machines either i doubt they will care.

DaffyDuck
Jun 16, 2011, 02:37 PM
May as well throw this one out there.

Do you think that Apple are removing/making it challenging to pirate Lion unlike the previous Mac OS X's which were easily available off torrent sites without the use or need of keygens or cracks, by making it an App Store download only?

GO!

Apple no longer considers OS X to be a money generator on its own. It is a platform to sell hardware, apps, music, books...

I think this transformation in thinking occurred after the development of iOS and its free OS upgrades. I don't think they really care if the OS gets pirated or even their own apps for that matter. Look how much they reduced the price of Aperture when they opened the Mac app store.

With the iOS app store and now the Mac store, they get a cut of each sale and since they have made it ridiculously easy to buy and install apps and people are buying apps in droves, they are raking in the money.

I honestly believe they would prefer you pirate the OS rather than not upgrade for several years because the experience of buying apps, music, etc will not be as good as it might be, and again, that's where the money is made.

Edit: I also want to add that since Apple is taking out almost all of the work of upgrading by integrating it into the App store, there will be much less piracy. With Snow Leopard and previous releases, pirating basically resulted in an easier experience. No need to even drive to the store or order a disc online and wait for delivery. Just download a torrent and restore to a USB drive. Now, with Lion, they have provided a superior experience. Tap buy, go watch some TV, and the upgrade is done. People that tend not to upgrade their OS regularly will now be much more likely to do so.

baryon
Jun 16, 2011, 05:29 PM
Honestly, since I have a Mac, I actually started to pay for software. I feel that I actually want the software and not just "need it" out of necessity, and I also feel that the attention to quality and the low price gives a huge amount of value for little money.

I will buy Lion, and I bought Snow Leopard too.

When a virus eats your Windows system, you don't really feel like paying money for it just to reinstall it and get back to where you were yesterday, especially if the OS is what caused you the problem in the first place. At that point you're cursing Microsoft, and illegally downloading Windows no longer feels like stealing. It feels like taking what belongs to you, something you've already paid for when you first got your computer.

capoeira4u
Jun 18, 2011, 03:32 AM
I don't even know why people bother spending the time for this...

They're called "kids without a credit card".

tmoerel
Jun 18, 2011, 04:58 AM
I dont know how anyone would feel safe installing a pirated OS, I mean anyone can dump anything in there or your whole system could crash with a bad pirated copy or some missing crucial file..... Any sort of pirating is bad but pirating your whole OS is stupid and risky as well.

Although I agree that pirating an OS is not done, saying that is it is risky is just plain fear mongering!!

macmongral
Jun 18, 2011, 05:12 AM
A little bit of info for your delectation when you use the recovery hd it checks with apple the serial number of the mac you are restoring :D

so it must log the see no. on the original install :)

Hansr
Jun 18, 2011, 05:16 AM
They're called "kids without a credit card".

You don't need a credit card to buy stuff.

iExpensive
Jun 18, 2011, 02:21 PM
Apple's anti-piracy is in the hardware.

The only people actually hurting apple are pirates with hackintoshes.
Although the $29.99 price point will surely make pirates think twice before downloading.
Most of a pirates excuses come from the old "I couldn't afford it" but now there is just no excuse.

Sneakz
Jun 18, 2011, 02:37 PM
Apple's anti-piracy is the in hardware.

The only people actually hurting apple are pirates with hackintoshes.


Not all hackintoshers are pirates. Snow Leopard is easily available for $29.

Cougarcat
Jun 18, 2011, 02:47 PM
Not all hackintoshers are pirates. Snow Leopard is easily available for $29.

He wasn't saying that they were pirates, he was saying that they hurt Apple because they built their own hardware instead of buying Apple's.

In some cases this is probably true, but somebody who built a hackintosh tower for $800 most likely would not have bought a $2500 MacPro instead.

baryon
Jun 18, 2011, 03:08 PM
You don't need a credit card to buy stuff.

On iTunes you do. You can't even do anything on iTunes except listen to music and sync your device if you're not registered with a debit (or credit) card. Not even downloading cover art works. Which is annoying as many people simply don't have a card as they see no point in it, and children rarely have their own bank accounts, which makes buying apps (even free ones), songs and movies impossible for them, unless their parents buy them for them.

Sky Blue
Jun 18, 2011, 03:34 PM
A little bit of info for your delectation when you use the recovery hd it checks with apple the serial number of the mac you are restoring :D

so it must log the see no. on the original install :)

Yeah, I noticed that yesterday.

Cougarcat
Jun 18, 2011, 05:41 PM
On iTunes you do. You can't even do anything on iTunes except listen to music and sync your device if you're not registered with a debit (or credit) card. Not even downloading cover art works. Which is annoying as many people simply don't have a card as they see no point in it, and children rarely have their own bank accounts, which makes buying apps (even free ones), songs and movies impossible for them, unless their parents buy them for them.

Create an iTunes App Store account without a credit card (http://support.apple.com/kb/ht2534)

baryon
Jun 19, 2011, 03:30 AM
Create an iTunes App Store account without a credit card (http://support.apple.com/kb/ht2534)

Wow... Didn't know that! So then you can still buy free apps?

But I was mostly talking about the iTunes Music Store, because about 3 years ago I didn't have a bank account yet, and I was frustrated by not being able to do anything there, not even free things like downloading cover art automatically.

CyBeRino
Jun 19, 2011, 08:29 AM
On iTunes you do. You can't even do anything on iTunes except listen to music and sync your device if you're not registered with a debit (or credit) card. Not even downloading cover art works. Which is annoying as many people simply don't have a card as they see no point in it, and children rarely have their own bank accounts, which makes buying apps (even free ones), songs and movies impossible for them, unless their parents buy them for them.

Maybe where you live, but where I live every kid above the age of 5 has his or her own bank account. Of course the actual spending power only comes at 12 when they can get a real bank account (as opposed to a special kids version) with debit card and all.

The same can be done on iTMS btw.

darrellishere
Jun 19, 2011, 07:22 PM
My point exactly :D

Though I would certainly like it if apple would let me pay with either Paypal or iDeal (like Steam).
Many people from my generation (I'm 20 years old) don't have a credit card (actually I don't know anyone of remotely my age who has one), so gift cards are the only good option :eek:, Apple is missing a lot of potential customers that way :eek:.



Don't you have debit cards in america. Bank accounts ?

silexh
Jun 20, 2011, 11:02 AM
Don't you have debit cards in america. Bank accounts ?

Of course everybody has a bank account, but that's pretty much useless because there is no good option to pay with it (I'm assuming nobody creates a Click&Buy account just for Lion). Most payments here (Netherlands) are done via iDeal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDEAL), because you pay through the online banking account from your bank (so essentially, everybody has access to iDeal payments). And if iDeal isn't an option, you can pay with PayPal 99% of the time.

Except with the iTunes/App store.

Cougarcat
Jun 20, 2011, 11:06 AM
You can link your iTunes account on paypal.

glossywhite
Jun 20, 2011, 04:43 PM
http://theoatmeal.com/blog/apps ;)

Four thumbs up! ^_^

glossywhite
Jun 20, 2011, 04:45 PM
I dont know how anyone would feel safe installing a pirated OS, I mean anyone can dump anything in there or your whole system could crash with a bad pirated copy or some missing crucial file..... Any sort of pirating is bad but pirating your whole OS is stupid and risky as well.

You've never heard of MD5 sums? :-/

silexh
Jun 21, 2011, 10:04 AM
You can link your iTunes account on paypal.

Wait, what? where? Certainly not in my payment options.

EDIT: And pirating an OS is certainly not risky, as long as you know what you are doing. Most of the time images are uploaded unmodified, which you can check with a hash.

Cougarcat
Jun 21, 2011, 10:14 AM
Wait, what? where? Certainly not in my payment options.



Guess it's not available in the Netherlands.

roadbloc
Jun 21, 2011, 10:15 AM
Guess it's not available in the Netherlands.

Not available in the UK either.

Jeaz
Jun 21, 2011, 10:51 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

Apple is always looking for ways to reduce piracy.
Take Jailbreaking your phone, there will always be smart people who find away around the limits of the Apple store distribution method.
My opinion is as long as I pay for my copy Apple wins even if it is just a little. I support the companies I admire.
Jailbreak protection is primarily not a jailbreak protection, but rather Apples control-freak tendencies.

silexh
Jun 22, 2011, 07:42 AM
Guess it's not available in the Netherlands.

Even more peculiar is the fact that when I log in with my apple id (the one I used to buy my mac in the online store), it doesn't even offer me the option 'none'. While some bogus account I created a while back actually does have that option.

spinkick
Jun 22, 2011, 06:56 PM
How do you pirate a service pack?

Saladinos
Jul 2, 2011, 02:18 PM
Lion checks back with Apple when you try and restore from the recovery partition. It does include anti-piracy measures (a first for Apple, I might add).

BlackMangoTree
Jul 2, 2011, 02:22 PM
Lion checks back with Apple when you try and restore from the recovery partition. It does include anti-piracy measures (a first for Apple, I might add).

Burning Lion to dvd and doing a clean restore, downloaded the needed files and installed fine.

MacBookPro13"
Jul 2, 2011, 04:59 PM
People are pirating it to get it early, not to avoid the price tag, in most cases.

Macopotamus
Jul 2, 2011, 06:35 PM
I think most people are pirating just to get their hands on GM early and not to avoid paying the puny $30

Anyway, if you're a dev and have been getting the previews all along, GM is free anyway. Plus we got all the iCloud beta access and other things, well worth the $99 a year IMO.

Yamcha
Jul 2, 2011, 06:45 PM
Yup, most people just want their hands on Mac OS X Lion, so shouldn't be a surprise that its being pirated..

iHateMacs
Jul 2, 2011, 06:57 PM
Yup, most people just want their hands on Mac OS X Lion, so shouldn't be a surprise that its being pirated..

Why are apple holding back then?

I expect many of the people downloading it now would pay if they could. But, now they HAVE downloaded it ,for free, will they pay when it's released? I doubt many of them will.

mattpreston11
Jul 2, 2011, 08:32 PM
Sorry to commit the crime of bringing the thread back on topic. But I think the 20.99 price tag makes it an easy choice to buy over pirate. Ive never bought a copy of windows in all my years (xp, vista or 7) But i think if it had been 20 for a key, I would have.

People will still pirate it, but mainly for hackintosh purposes, or the GM just to get it early.

Mr Rogers
Jul 2, 2011, 09:22 PM
I've just invested nearly US$6000 on Apple hardware this year - two iMac 27in BTO's in June alone, neither came with Lion installed or a card allowing for a free download when it becomes available on the App Store - is this enough payment to Apple to allow me a free/pirated copy of Lion?

Further, I've never used the App Store or ITunes store and will never use them - I've jailbroken my mobile devices and have so much more functionality.

Further, and given the companies current market capitalisation and more than US$60 billion in the bank, I have no intention of using cloud-based services be they Apple or Google - do you actually think I'd really believe all my content is secure if I store it on someone else's server - for that is all iCloud is.

Given the cost of storage, I'll invest in my own storage, this includes 3T upgrades to my iMac HDD's, RAID system of 6T and Time Machine back-ups.

If my home burns down, I'll be stuffed, well not really - I also back-up one computer fully at my parents home.

In my own opinion, the Lion upgrade should be free to encourage those with older machines to upgrade to latest technology, technology we expect to get 4-5 years of worth out of before having to upgrade again.

Yamcha
Jul 2, 2011, 09:36 PM
Why are apple holding back then?

I expect many of the people downloading it now would pay if they could. But, now they HAVE downloaded it ,for free, will they pay when it's released? I doubt many of them will.

Yeah I don't think anyone that's downloaded it will pay for the release, but honestly piracy happens all the time, nothing can be done about it, its a lot more convenient to just download something, especially when its free..

Developers try to prevent it, but eventually every popular game or application is pirated and activation is bypassed..

The only advantage some games have today is that multiplayer, but even then you can play on pirated servers.. :P

NameUndecided
Jul 2, 2011, 09:36 PM
In my own opinion, the Lion upgrade should be free to encourage those with older machines to upgrade to latest technology, technology we expect to get 4-5 years of worth out of before having to upgrade again.

I think part of the reason that they have it out for only $30 is the same that you think it should be free. I believe it's the case that [legitimately] free things aren't as valued by most consumers as is something that's perceived as a really great bargain. Even after Snow Leopard was released for most people at around the same price, $30 for a new operating system still feels like a treat to most people. Give it out for free, and the average consumer can (consciously or not so much) hold the perception that the work that was put into it isn't worth all that much.

Yamcha
Jul 2, 2011, 09:41 PM
Sorry to commit the crime of bringing the thread back on topic. But I think the 20.99 price tag makes it an easy choice to buy over pirate. Ive never bought a copy of windows in all my years (xp, vista or 7) But i think if it had been 20 for a key, I would have.

People will still pirate it, but mainly for hackintosh purposes, or the GM just to get it early.

Thats not completely true, people who offer support for Hackintosh don't allow piracy, in fact they encourage you to buy a retail DVD.. I myself have a retail version of Snow Leopard.. An example I'm talking about is TonyMacx86, discussing or sharing pirated versions of Snow Leopard or Lion is against the rules on his website/forums..

But what you may be talking about is Mac OS distributions for unsupported hardware like AMD, those are modified versions of Mac OS that are meant to work on unsupported hardware, and yes those are pirated..

But not everyone with a Hackintosh uses pirated software..

BlackMangoTree
Jul 2, 2011, 09:41 PM
I definitely will be buying it even though i downloaded it already. At $30 it's so cheap.

aristobrat
Jul 2, 2011, 10:40 PM
I've just invested nearly US$6000 on Apple hardware this year - two iMac 27in BTO's in June alone, neither came with Lion installed or a card allowing for a free download when it becomes available on the App Store
Um, right. The day Apple officially announces the ship date for a new OS (like they did on June 6th for Lion), any Mac purchased on (or after) that date is eligible to get the OS for free. Your two BTOs may be eligible for a free update, but I guess it's pointless if you never will use the App Store.

Macs don't start coming with the new OS upgrade DVD included in the box (or a download code, as it is for Lion) until the day the OS is available for retail sale.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/uptodate/

GoCubsGo
Jul 2, 2011, 10:44 PM
I've just invested nearly US$6000 on Apple hardware this year - two iMac 27in BTO's in June alone, neither came with Lion installed or a card allowing for a free download when it becomes available on the App Store - is this enough payment to Apple to allow me a free/pirated copy of Lion?

Further, I've never used the App Store or ITunes store and will never use them - I've jailbroken my mobile devices and have so much more functionality.

Further, and given the companies current market capitalisation and more than US$60 billion in the bank, I have no intention of using cloud-based services be they Apple or Google - do you actually think I'd really believe all my content is secure if I store it on someone else's server - for that is all iCloud is.

Given the cost of storage, I'll invest in my own storage, this includes 3T upgrades to my iMac HDD's, RAID system of 6T and Time Machine back-ups.

If my home burns down, I'll be stuffed, well not really - I also back-up one computer fully at my parents home.

In my own opinion, the Lion upgrade should be free to encourage those with older machines to upgrade to latest technology, technology we expect to get 4-5 years of worth out of before having to upgrade again.
What are you smoking? Further, what are you really smoking?
An OS upgrade free to keep you current? Yeah ok. It's $30 FFS.

baryon
Jul 3, 2011, 02:38 AM
Of course everybody has a bank account, but that's pretty much useless because there is no good option to pay with it (I'm assuming nobody creates a Click&Buy account just for Lion). Most payments here (Netherlands) are done via iDeal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDEAL), because you pay through the online banking account from your bank (so essentially, everybody has access to iDeal payments). And if iDeal isn't an option, you can pay with PayPal 99% of the time.

Except with the iTunes/App store.

Don't you get a card with every bank account you create automatically? They didn't even ask me when I did mine (I was 19), I signed up and a few days later my card was in the post. Plus I don't think you can use PayPal without one either, so, it's pretty useful!

AAPLaday
Jul 3, 2011, 02:46 AM
I've just invested nearly US$6000 on Apple hardware this year - two iMac 27in BTO's in June alone, neither came with Lion installed or a card allowing for a free download when it becomes available on the App Store - is this enough payment to Apple to allow me a free/pirated copy of Lion?

Further, I've never used the App Store or ITunes store and will never use them - I've jailbroken my mobile devices and have so much more functionality.

Further, and given the companies current market capitalisation and more than US$60 billion in the bank, I have no intention of using cloud-based services be they Apple or Google - do you actually think I'd really believe all my content is secure if I store it on someone else's server - for that is all iCloud is.

Given the cost of storage, I'll invest in my own storage, this includes 3T upgrades to my iMac HDD's, RAID system of 6T and Time Machine back-ups.

If my home burns down, I'll be stuffed, well not really - I also back-up one computer fully at my parents home.

In my own opinion, the Lion upgrade should be free to encourage those with older machines to upgrade to latest technology, technology we expect to get 4-5 years of worth out of before having to upgrade again.

Sounds like you have money to burn. $29.99 shouldn't be too hard to swallow.

farmermac
Jul 3, 2011, 08:32 AM
Why are apple holding back then?

I expect many of the people downloading it now would pay if they could. But, now they HAVE downloaded it ,for free, will they pay when it's released? I doubt many of them will.

I for one can say that i've downloaded the gm to get it early but will also buy it once it becomes available. I just want it ASAP. Did the same thing SL.

Lord Appleseed
Jul 3, 2011, 08:37 AM
Lion is definitely worth the 30 Bucks, there is really no need to pirate it.

ESPN
Jul 4, 2011, 05:23 PM
Alas, when people pirate $1 phone apps...

The one dollar apps add up, I know people that have hundreds of apps on their phone and gigabytes of music, unless you are rich no person would spend 1000$ to decorate iphone with hundreds of paid apps and music.
A one dollar app an add up to a large amount before you know it.
I didn't it will stop piracy but the barrier to torrent it is much higher when the price is so low. If Lion had been 129$, I'm sure I would have torrented it. There is nothing so significant to make it worth that much. Now that it's 29$, I didn't even have to think about torrenting.

Agreed
Apple has always been about selling their computer systems, not so much about making money from their operating system upgrades.

They are somewhat concerned about people putting their MacOSX on non-Apple hardware as seen with Psystar.



If that were such the case, why are you not using Linux? Zero cost. Obviously it must have enough worth for you to torrent it. People will often say anything to justify what they are doing.

The planning and complexity it takes to create an operating system of this caliber would far exceed the $29.00 price point. but as I said before, its to sell its computer systems, the lower price just makes it look more attractive.

Windows > MacOS > Linux

Why do you think he didn't get Linux?

MacBookPro13"
Jul 4, 2011, 05:30 PM
Lion is definitely worth the 30 Bucks, there is really no need to pirate it.

People who don't have access to a credit card? I can see a lot of people taking the "easier option" based on that alone and also the fact that people want to torrent the Lion GM to have it early and knowing that they can use that and update it like the retail copy, they won't bother paying the $29 when it is released.

silexh
Jul 4, 2011, 05:54 PM
Don't you get a card with every bank account you create automatically? They didn't even ask me when I did mine (I was 19), I signed up and a few days later my card was in the post. Plus I don't think you can use PayPal without one either, so, it's pretty useful!

You get a standard debit card (not a credit card) with a bank account. Also, you can use Paypal with a bank account (which is what I do).

As I said, the only place I actually 'need' a credit card would be the App store.

KJmoon117
Jul 4, 2011, 06:19 PM
Not to mention you can go buy gift cards at the Apple Store to make purchases in the App Store :)

That's what I'm doing since I'm currently overseas and all my credit cards are issued by this country's banks.

phalseHUD
Jul 4, 2011, 08:02 PM
Read an article somewhere (cannot recall where now), and im sure it mentioned that during the install you had to activate Lion using your AppleID. Is this not still the case?

ovrlrd
Jul 4, 2011, 08:07 PM
Read an article somewhere (cannot recall where now), and im sure it mentioned that during the install you had to activate Lion using your AppleID. Is this not still the case?

No, you might have read the part where to download the Lion GM developer build you need to have a valid developer account, they give you a code that you enter in on the Mac App Store where you use your AppleID to download it.

During the install process there is nowhere that it asks for your AppleID, except when doing a fresh install where it might ask you to register with Apple, which is not the same thing as activation.

silexh
Jul 4, 2011, 08:27 PM
No, you might have read the part where to download the Lion GM developer build you need to have a valid developer account, they give you a code that you enter in on the Mac App Store where you use your AppleID to download it.

During the install process there is nowhere that it asks for your AppleID, except when doing a fresh install where it might ask you to register with Apple, which is not the same thing as activation.

It does expressly ask you for your AppleID, and after that mention that it's for registration. You can skip all of it though.

one1
Jul 4, 2011, 08:58 PM
With respect to LION and PIRACY. I am not sure if it is meant in the OP as Lion's App Store or LION itself as an OS, but I was going to add that in terms of actually pirating the operating system itself MOST will steal it right now and buy it when it comes out. They are just trying to be ahead of the curve and get shiny new things early, not avoid paying. I tend to believe most people running Lion right now that are not devs will buy it once they are given an option to do so.

phalseHUD
Jul 5, 2011, 01:05 AM
No, you might have read the part where to download the Lion GM developer build you need to have a valid developer account, they give you a code that you enter in on the Mac App Store where you use your AppleID to download it.

During the install process there is nowhere that it asks for your AppleID, except when doing a fresh install where it might ask you to register with Apple, which is not the same thing as activation.

It does expressly ask you for your AppleID, and after that mention that it's for registration. You can skip all of it though.

Thanks for clearing that one up

arek89
Jul 5, 2011, 01:56 PM
So will Lion ask for Apple ID to activate after installation? This can be the end of pirated OS X.

AdrianK
Jul 5, 2011, 02:00 PM
So will Lion ask for Apple ID to activate after installation? This can be the end of pirated OS X.

It would be bypassed in the same way that Windows activation has been consistently bypassed.

Patrick J
Jul 5, 2011, 02:17 PM
So will Lion ask for Apple ID to activate after installation? This can be the end of pirated OS X.

It was said above that this was exactly NOT the case.

Apple ID is for registration, you can skip it completely and go to Accounts in Preferences and set up your Apple ID there.

Gomff
Jul 5, 2011, 06:18 PM
I will buy it, but not because I like it that much, more just to stay compatible with software updates which will sooner or later require Lion to run, and because I don't want to get involved in a cat and mouse game over something so trivial.

Personally, I'm mostly unimpressed with Lion and I think the price is probably about as much as Apple should charge. OS X is being turned into a consumer environment with Apple taking a cut out of all the revenue streams. The creative side of Mac software seems to stretch about as far as posting pictures and video on facebook these days, and the mac is pitched at the twitter crowd more than professionals. As such, I dont think Apple care about pirating the OS because it wlll innevitably lead to more income via the app store and hardware sales.

I think Leopard / Snow Leopard were the apex of Apple OS engineering and it's all downhill from here.

Cougarcat
Jul 5, 2011, 07:14 PM
It was said above that this was exactly NOT the case.

Apple ID is for registration, you can skip it completely and go to Accounts in Preferences and set up your Apple ID there.

You need to enter it if you want to reinstall (and redownload it) via the restore partition.

Patrick J
Jul 5, 2011, 08:32 PM
You need to enter it if you want to reinstall (and redownload it) via the restore partition.

If you were intent on pirating it all you would have to do is to have a USB drive or DVD with the Install image on.

Fresh install this way doesn't ask for any authorization.

strubinstein
Jul 6, 2011, 11:55 AM
The thing that I always think is ridiculous is when somebody pirates something as significant as operating system, and somehow expects it to work perfectly, even going so far as to complain about bugs. In my opinion, if you pirate something, thats your decision, but you have no right to complain about things going wrong.

I also think its just funny that some people are surprised to find things not working in a pirated OS. You really expect, with 100% certainty that the thing you downloaded from some website, which was uploaded by some random guy, is going to be absolutely perfect? Come on...

Cougarcat
Jul 6, 2011, 11:59 AM
I also think its just funny that some people are surprised to find things not working in a pirated OS. You really expect, with 100% certainty that the thing you downloaded from some website, which was uploaded by some random guy, is going to be absolutely perfect? Come on...

It's pretty easy to verify whether or not the dmg's been tampered with.

BlackMangoTree
Jul 6, 2011, 12:44 PM
Id like to know when installing Lion from a DVD what does it actually download ? before the installation begins.

Cougarcat
Jul 6, 2011, 03:14 PM
Id like to know when installing Lion from a DVD what does it actually download ? before the installation begins.

Nothing. It's the same process as a SL DVD.

The only time you download something is if you decide to reinstall from the recovery partition.

rtolboom
Jul 6, 2011, 03:47 PM
That is not true. I did a clean install from dvd and setup did tell me it was downloading stuff and took about 4 min (4mb/s) before it started the actual setup.

ratzzo
Jul 6, 2011, 03:50 PM
Either way, Apple are smart by setting the price at $30. It is low enough to keep many people from pirating it. Take Windows, on the other hand.. $140 at Costco for a Win7 copy.:confused:

Eidorian
Jul 6, 2011, 03:55 PM
Either way, Apple are smart by setting the price at $30. It is low enough to keep many people from pirating it. Take Windows, on the other hand.. $140 at Costco for a Win7 copy.:confused:$79-85 for an OEM copy of Home Premium.

Hellhammer
Jul 6, 2011, 04:01 PM
$79-85 for an OEM copy of Home Premium.

Legally you can't use OEM version as it violates the EULA: http://oem.microsoft.com/public/sblicense/2008_sb_licenses/fy08_sb_license_english.pdf

I know nobody in real world cares because it works and I have used OEM version several times myself as well. We are discussing about piracy and other violations anyway so I though I would add that.

RichardBeer
Jul 6, 2011, 04:04 PM
I'm one of the sceptics when it comes to the statistical losses that the industries purport to lose. I can actually see situations where piracy has lead to sales. And also I think the argument that many of those who pirate would never have bought the software anyway, so no real loss is made holds considerable weight There's a theft of easily replicated IP but with no real 'loss' due to this. Not that I am advocating for or defend against piracy.

I think it will be pirated as just about anything is these days on the web. I agree that at the price of Lion, there really is zero excuse to do so. I can imagine it to be more popular with Hackintosh owners however it's a popular practice I think now to buy legit copies of OS X for Hackintoshes nowadays, obviously in conjunction with the use of boot loaders and other software used to trick OS X into installing.