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k4show
Jun 7, 2011, 05:42 PM
I was thinking about trying it out before the July release. I don't have any important documents on my Mac since I just got it a week ago.



mrapplegate
Jun 7, 2011, 05:48 PM
I was thinking about trying it out before the July release. I don't have any important documents on my Mac since I just got it a week ago.
What kind of Mac? There are widespread reports of DP4 not installing on 2011 MBP.

Bear
Jun 7, 2011, 05:48 PM
I was thinking about trying it out before the July release. I don't have any important documents on my Mac since I just got it a week ago.Are you a developer? If not you shouldn't have a copy nor should you be asking for help with pirated software here.

DustinT
Jun 7, 2011, 05:49 PM
Are you a developer? If not you shouldn't have a copy nor should you be asking for help with pirated software here.Whoa... Back off tiger!

kirky29
Jun 7, 2011, 05:50 PM
Working fine on my 2011 MBP
I did a fresh installation, if the performance keeps up, I'll probably stick Lion out now until general release.

WeegieMac
Jun 7, 2011, 05:53 PM
Are you a developer? If not you shouldn't have a copy nor should you be asking for help with pirated software here.

I've seen Lion in action thanks to a friend (who is a freelance developer of web sites and apps) who has it installed on a mid 2008 iMac and it's flying ... it makes my installation of Snow Leopard look slow as hell. Things literally pop open, it's unreal.

As for the pirate issue, if I could get a copy now to play around with (since I believe this is as good as a GM) then I would, and I'll still be paying the £20.99 to buy it come July. I don't think anyone, well I wouldn't like to think anyone, would pirate a $29/£20 operating system.

Bear
Jun 7, 2011, 05:55 PM
As for the pirate issue, if I could get a copy now to play around with (since I believe this is as good as a GM) then I would, and I'll still be paying the £20.99 to buy it come July. I don't think anyone, well I wouldn't like to think anyone, would pirate a $29/£20 operating system.It's funny how people who grab a piece of software that was only released to registered developers think that it's not piracy.

WeegieMac
Jun 7, 2011, 05:58 PM
It's funny how people who grab a piece of software that was only released to registered developers think that it's not piracy.

Where did I say it wasn't piracy? No need to be so arsey with me.

Points, to recap:

A. I've seen it run on a 2008 iMac, and it's super fast.

B. I have a friend who works as a Developer of both websites (for a UK design firm) and Mac/iOS apps.

C. If I had the chance of getting a copy now, regardless of it being piracy, then I would because I will be buying the OS the second it appears on the Mac App Store, then I'll be trotting off down to the Apple Store in Glasgow to replace my Magic Mouse with a Magic Trackpad.

superericla
Jun 7, 2011, 06:20 PM
I think it's easily stable enough for everyday use. At least that's the case with it being installed on my base 2011 MBP.

WeegieMac
Jun 7, 2011, 06:50 PM
So how would you go about installing the latest build fresh instead of an upgrade (DP or retail) on your internal drive if you so wanted to, without burning discs etc?

Could you install Snow Leopard via your install DVD to an external drive, blank the internal drive using Disk Utility, then run the Lion installer from there, chosing your internal drive you just formatted?

Just wondering.

superericla
Jun 7, 2011, 07:10 PM
So how would you go about installing the latest build fresh instead of an upgrade (DP or retail) on your internal drive if you so wanted to, without burning discs etc?

Could you install Snow Leopard via your install DVD to an external drive, blank the internal drive using Disk Utility, then run the Lion installer from there, chosing your internal drive you just formatted?

Just wondering.

You could use the "Restore" option in Disk Utility to restore the Lion disk image to a flash drive and boot from the flash drive to install.

appleguy123
Jun 7, 2011, 07:56 PM
In my experience, yes it is. I wouldn't have said this about DP 3.

celticpride678
Jun 7, 2011, 08:01 PM
I think that DP 4 is most certainly the most stable build of Lion yet. While it goes still have a few bugs here and there, Safari no longer crashes every two minutes and everything is much more polished.

The OS itself just feels a bit faster than previous builds. With all that being said, I still don't recommend running a non-final release as your main OS because of the issues that may pop up.

antmarobel
Jun 7, 2011, 08:04 PM
Yes, it is! Much, much better than the previous versions.:p

Xgm541
Jun 7, 2011, 11:13 PM
Macbook air late 2010, 1.4 ghz, 4gb ram. Not usable for everyday functions. For god knows what reason, apple decided to increase the minimum fan speed on laptops to around 4,500 RPM even at idle, previously my fan went at 2000 RPM idle. My temperatures are "normal" but my laptop feels a bit hotter, perhaps because the graphic card is doing more work now. Mission control lags a lot. It works but the animation is very sluggish and i had it crash once and log me out of my session.

Going to reinstall SL when i get access to my thumb drive installer.

MacManiac76
Jun 8, 2011, 03:01 AM
I would say it is stable enough for everyday use. Safari is finally usable and lightning quick too. I haven't run into any bugs yet on the limited use I have had with DP4 so far.

WeegieMac
Jun 8, 2011, 03:16 AM
You could use the "Restore" option in Disk Utility to restore the Lion disk image to a flash drive and boot from the flash drive to install.

If you installed Lion on your internal drive and wanted to go back to SL for the official Mac App Store upgrade for $29, I assume it's a simple case of inserting your SL disc, chosing it as the boot disc from Settings, rebooting and using Disk Utility from the SL disc to format the Macintosh HD and reinstall Snow Leopard?

RJCP
Jun 8, 2011, 04:01 AM
Hi guys! I've been reading for a while but only joined now 'cause I wanted to ask if anyone has tried upgrading from SL to Lion without performing a clean install, that is, updating your current system. What's your feedback on the experience?

All best!! :)

xgman
Jun 8, 2011, 08:49 AM
Hi guys! I've been reading for a while but only joined now 'cause I wanted to ask if anyone has tried upgrading from SL to Lion without performing a clean install, that is, updating your current system. What's your feedback on the experience?

All best!! :)


Was also wondering this.

bushido
Jun 8, 2011, 09:11 AM
spaces/fullscreen/ or motioncontrol is very buggy on my DP4

never had this problem on any of the other previews

full screen apps suddenly overlap on one "desktop" or my app in the 2nd desktop suddenly jumps to the 1st desktop and sometimes a desktop just turns into grey and shows nothing anymore. also can't minimize safari and mail unless i force quit and reopen them

kenbrinkman
Jun 8, 2011, 01:33 PM
Hi guys! I've been reading for a while but only joined now 'cause I wanted to ask if anyone has tried upgrading from SL to Lion without performing a clean install, that is, updating your current system. What's your feedback on the experience?

All best!! :)

I did this lsat night and everything went smoothly. No problems whatsoever, all of my applications work just fine. DP4 is a pretty solid OS so far. Only thing was my time machine backup needed to be reindexed (which takes forever) and backup around 12GB.

Lord Appleseed
Jun 8, 2011, 01:39 PM
I'm using it a few hours now and it works like charm, everything is as I imagined. If you can get your hands on the DP4 then try it for yourself.
I will definitely buy it as soon as they finally release it.

3goldens
Jun 8, 2011, 02:12 PM
seems good to me!

cherfizzle
Jun 9, 2011, 12:43 AM
I'm using DP3 and overall it's okay for daily use. A few apps such as Chrome and Safari have some quite persistent bugs.. Mission control and Launchpads performance just isn't that great.. And some of the overall general core animation **** is use LAGGY.

I think it's okay. It doesn't FEEL like YOUR computer so much lol It feels like your borrowing one knowing that all the features aren't there being a beta preview and all.

I'd say DP4 is definitely ready for everyday use. It's coming in July so I'm sure this one is just before Golden Master.

(marc)
Jun 9, 2011, 03:09 AM
When you hide an application and then unhide it from its dock icon, the menubar does not get updated. This is a pretty major bug.

Also, most of the animations are not smooth.

Žalgiris
Jun 9, 2011, 06:26 AM
I was thinking about trying it out before the July release. I don't have any important documents on my Mac since I just got it a week ago.

It's still a work in progress. It's pretty fast, but it also has many very annoying and obvious bugs not to mention the stuff you can't just see.


People that say it's GM quality or close to GM have no clue. It's at least few months away from being GM (just as Apple said it will be on sale in July). I wouldn't be surprised if they drag things a bit. Better later if that's what it takes.

richard.mac
Jun 9, 2011, 06:37 AM
ive had a few app freezes and crashes, but a lot less than DP3, and everything feels a little quicker IMO. could be used as a main OS, but dont expect perfection.

cant wait for the GM build :)

admmasters
Jun 9, 2011, 07:15 AM
It's still a work in progress. It's pretty fast, but it also has many very annoying and obvious bugs not to mention the stuff you can't just see.


People that say it's GM quality or close to GM have no clue. It's at least few months away from being GM (just as Apple said it will be on sale in July). I wouldn't be surprised if they drag things a bit. Better later if that's what it takes.

Er that is next month, not months. I'm using it as my main OS and despite a couple of things, it's fine for my everyday usage. Whether or not it's fine for you is down to you, on the whole though I'm very impressed with this update, feels very light and snappy - once the bugs are fully ironed out, Apple can rest assured they will get their £20 from me :)

Dwalls90
Jun 9, 2011, 07:20 AM
I installed DP4 and I can say it's very stable, I'm using it as my main with SL backed up in case something goes wrong but so far it's perfect!

Žalgiris
Jun 9, 2011, 07:21 AM
Er that is next month, not months. I'm using it as my main OS and despite a couple of things, it's fine for my everyday usage. Whether or not it's fine for you is down to you, on the whole though I'm very impressed with this update, feels very light and snappy - once the bugs are fully ironed out, Apple can rest assured they will get their £20 from me :)

It's still ⅔ of june and whole july left, so as far as i'm concerned it's still months.

You can use it that's fine, but it's still far from GM.

Psilocybin
Jun 9, 2011, 09:40 AM
I am an actual developer and I am using it as my main os - well on my MacBook air. My iMac is staying on sl till lion is released

BlackMangoTree
Jun 9, 2011, 09:45 AM
I found it works well enough but still has some rough edges.

I don't see the point in using it at all nothing really improved over Snow Leopard that you cant do without.

xgman
Jun 9, 2011, 10:10 AM
I am finding a lot of apps (mostly utilities) don't work right or not at all yet. Same as when SL hit. It will take time if you are used to certain apps and don't want to give them up.

vultureboy
Jun 9, 2011, 10:47 AM
I've been using Lion as my main OS on my laptop since DP1 and apart from the odd annoyance i've not had any major problems. However after installing DP4 i've now upgraded my iMac to Lion as really for the work I do it really is a very stable and fast operation system!

I'd quite happily say, go for it and install Lion. However, just make sure you have a good backup system just in case you want to go back to Leopard if you have any problems!

Meyvn
Jun 9, 2011, 10:52 AM
No. Still far too buggy.

In order to get my sound to work, I had to plug in an external USB sound card; and this was after 4 fresh installations, including one where I installed Snow Leopard fresh first.

With an "upgrade" install before, my video stopped working after a few hours.

On this most recent fresh install, my keyboard "repeat" has stopped working, and some apps can't seem to properly save preferences.

So no, I wouldn't say it's a general release build. Best to leave it to the developers for now to do what they do best: make their applications work with the operating system properly, and report bugs. Wait until the release, or at least the GM if you're that antsy. Yes, some of the new features are really nice, but they're not worth things randomly breaking.

If you insist on installing it, I must insist that you do so with a Carbon Copy Cloner/SuperDuper! bootable clone on an external drive as a backup. To do otherwise is plain stupidity.

BlackMangoTree
Jun 9, 2011, 11:03 AM
I seems to perform differently on different Mac's on my MacMini 2010 it's performing well on my 2009 iMac performance is rather shaky lots of little bugs everywhere.

Meyvn
Jun 9, 2011, 11:06 AM
I seems to perform differently on different Mac's on my MacMini 2010 it's performing well on my 2009 iMac performance is rather shaky lots of little bugs everywhere.

Egg zackly.

petvas
Jun 9, 2011, 12:56 PM
I've been using Lion as my main OS on my laptop since DP1 and apart from the odd annoyance i've not had any major problems. However after installing DP4 i've now upgraded my iMac to Lion as really for the work I do it really is a very stable and fast operation system!

I'd quite happily say, go for it and install Lion. However, just make sure you have a good backup system just in case you want to go back to Leopard if you have any problems!

Do you know that an update from the developer preview to the final version won't be possible? At least that is what the release notes of the developer preview 4 version mention...

slb
Jun 9, 2011, 04:38 PM
If it was stable enough for everyday usage, it would be for sale to the public already.

Psilocybin
Jun 9, 2011, 04:59 PM
If it was stable enough for everyday usage, it would be for sale to the public already.

What a load of crap. Just because it's not the final release doesn't mean its not stable

Ignore this stupid comment

Yes I use it everyday with no problems

RJCP
Jun 9, 2011, 05:28 PM
Do you know that an update from the developer preview to the final version won't be possible? At least that is what the release notes of the developer preview 4 version mention...

It's not gonna show up on Software Update, the same way that DP4 didn't show up as a software update for DP3. Developers will get the GM which is basically what will be put on the App Store.

RJCP
Jun 9, 2011, 05:54 PM
What a load of crap. Just because it's not the final release doesn't mean its not stable

Ignore this stupid comment

Yes I use it everyday with no problems

True. I updated from SL and I'm using it as my primary OS and it's as stable as stable gets at least for the average user. The only annoying thing is that Spotlight is taking ages to re-index... But Safari has won me back. It's stable, faster and I don't get the beach ball every 2 seconds.

slb
Jun 9, 2011, 09:11 PM
What a load of crap. Just because it's not the final release doesn't mean its not stable

Ignore this stupid comment

Yes I use it everyday with no problems

I repeat, if people were able to use Lion everyday with no problems, it would be out of the preview phase and available for purchase already. The DPs are strictly for developers to update existing software for the new APIs as well as file bug reports.

Not only does the seed note include a list of known issues, the developer forums are filled with people describing bugs and crashes. For example, TextEdit has a bug where it inadvertently renames certain system files to have a "txt" extension, and Launchpad has database corruption issues. This is not a stable system ready for daily use.

True. I updated from SL and I'm using it as my primary OS and it's as stable as stable gets at least for the average user. The only annoying thing is that Spotlight is taking ages to re-index... But Safari has won me back. It's stable, faster and I don't get the beach ball every 2 seconds.

Apple strongly warns developers from using Lion as their primary OS. You're taking a gamble if you keep vital files on it exclusively, not to mention you won't be able to upgrade from it to the final release. I know people are having fun downloading the OS using alternative means and installing it to check out the latest changes, but like I said, if it was ready for daily use by the public, Apple would be selling it already.

slb
Jun 9, 2011, 09:29 PM
It's not gonna show up on Software Update, the same way that DP4 didn't show up as a software update for DP3. Developers will get the GM which is basically what will be put on the App Store.

The GM might go through several revisions like Xcode 4 did before being made publicly available. GM seeds are Apple's version of release candidates.

RJCP
Jun 10, 2011, 03:38 AM
I repeat, if people were able to use Lion everyday with no problems, it would be out of the preview phase and available for purchase already. The DPs are strictly for developers to update existing software for the new APIs as well as file bug reports.

Not only does the seed note include a list of known issues, the developer forums are filled with people describing bugs and crashes. For example, TextEdit has a bug where it inadvertently renames certain system files to have a "txt" extension, and Launchpad has database corruption issues. This is not a stable system ready for daily use.



Apple strongly warns developers from using Lion as their primary OS. You're taking a gamble if you keep vital files on it exclusively, not to mention you won't be able to upgrade from it to the final release. I know people are having fun downloading the OS using alternative means and installing it to check out the latest changes, but like I said, if it was ready for daily use by the public, Apple would be selling it already.

But people upgraded from the DP's of SL to the final version. Apple won't allow you to update from a DP to a GM through software update in order to clean up the DP code faults, but you can download the final version and upgrade your system with it. If it wouldn't be possible to upgrade from a DP to the release version, developers would be stuck on the DP's.

linkandzelda
Jun 10, 2011, 05:49 AM
I've been using it for a few days now as my main OS, and only OS. It's very stable and works great. The only problem I have is Mail keeps force closing every 10 mins or so. I'm trying to think what it might be doing that could cause it, as it's a shame to have it. Oh well.

dmbfan41
Jun 10, 2011, 09:42 AM
I started using it on Monday. I'm going back to the latest version of SL. It still isn't that stable for obvious reasons. My apps are hanging at times, crashing for no reason, and as little as it may seem I cannot stand the new finder.

There is really nothing new I care for in Lion. I guess I would try iCloud with iOS but that doesn't even come out until the fall.

mrapplegate
Jun 10, 2011, 09:46 AM
I've been using it for a few days now as my main OS, and only OS. It's very stable and works great. The only problem I have is Mail keeps force closing every 10 mins or so. I'm trying to think what it might be doing that could cause it, as it's a shame to have it. Oh well.

Have you added the iCloud to your DP4 install? Some have noticed the iCloud IMAP account that the OS creates causes mail to crash. Once removed manually or unchecked so it does not sync, mail does not crash.

slb
Jun 10, 2011, 11:32 AM
If it wouldn't be possible to upgrade from a DP to the release version, developers would be stuck on the DP's.

You won't be able to upgrade the DP to the final version. Developers are discouraged from running DPs on a main partition anyway. Most are booting off external drives or other partitions they expect to be wiped at release.

This is from the seed note:

Mac OS X Lion Developer Preview 4 is prerelease software. Do not use this prerelease software in a commercial operating environment or with important data. You should back up all of your data before installing this software and regularly back up data while using the software. You will not be able to upgrade from the Lion Developer Preview 4 to the final Lion release.

xgman
Jun 15, 2011, 09:28 AM
You won't be able to upgrade the DP to the final version. Developers are discouraged from running DPs on a main partition anyway. Most are booting off external drives or other partitions they expect to be wiped at release.

This is from the seed note:

Mac OS X Lion Developer Preview 4 is prerelease software. Do not use this prerelease software in a commercial operating environment or with important data. You should back up all of your data before installing this software and regularly back up data while using the software. You will not be able to upgrade from the Lion Developer Preview 4 to the final Lion release.

That's a good thing because DP4 is fought with problems and compatibility issues. I don't see how they are going to iron all this out in 30 days.