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Washac
Jul 26, 2011, 12:14 PM
Hello

Dam am I angry with apple.

Games that I have paid good money for and yes they are Mac games now longer work, will apple pay me me back the good money that I have paid out, no of coarse not.

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just to say the above was posted in anger, anger that should have been pointed
at myself for updating without understanding the consequences of the update.



Anonymous Freak
Jul 26, 2011, 01:31 PM
Hello

Dam am I angry with apple.

Games that I have paid good money for and yes they are Mac games now longer work, will apple pay me me back the good money that I have paid out, no of coarse not.

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Um....... Details? Maybe it's something where the game developer just needs to make an update? You just sound like someone angry for no reason unless you give us details.

Mr.C
Jul 26, 2011, 04:00 PM
Hello

Dam am I angry with apple.

Games that I have paid good money for and yes they are Mac games now longer work, will apple pay me me back the good money that I have paid out, no of coarse not.

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

That post makes no sense what so ever. It might help if you stated which games you're referring to and why they won't work.

doh123
Jul 26, 2011, 04:33 PM
If you mean you bought games for an older version of Mac OS X.. then upgraded Mac OS X and they no longer work, that is not Apple's fault.. its yours. No one forced you to upgrade your OS.

wywern209
Jul 26, 2011, 04:37 PM
i think his problem is the lack of rosetta support for osx lion.

DirtySocks85
Jul 26, 2011, 04:50 PM
i think his problem is the lack of rosetta support for osx lion.

I'd be inclined to agree, but as someone stated above, no one forced the OP to upgrade the OS.

If that's the case, what I would recommend is making a Snow Leopard partition just for playing those legacy titles.

Anonymous Freak
Jul 26, 2011, 07:03 PM
i think his problem is the lack of rosetta support for osx lion.

If that is the case, then yeah, he's playing games that are at least 5 years old. Can't really expect them to work forever. ESPECIALLY with Apple.

Heck, if it's a late PowerPC-era game, check with the game developer, they might have made an update that adds an Intel binary.

doh123
Jul 26, 2011, 08:12 PM
I found the Windows versions of several of the PPC games I still like to play... then I ported them myself with Wineskin, and found they actually run even BETTER than the PPC version did with Rosetta... and still run fine after upgrading to Lion.

blueroom
Jul 26, 2011, 08:26 PM
Reinstall Snow Leopard.

OR

Buy a console.

mark28
Jul 26, 2011, 09:01 PM
If that is the case, then yeah, he's playing games that are at least 5 years old. Can't really expect them to work forever. ESPECIALLY with Apple.

Heck, if it's a late PowerPC-era game, check with the game developer, they might have made an update that adds an Intel binary.

5 year old games work on Windows 7 without a problem.

doh123
Jul 26, 2011, 09:16 PM
5 year old games work on Windows 7 without a problem.

I can also get 10 year old Windows games running on Lion without a problem, so whats the point?

If Windows had done a major change in processors like Mac OS X did, it would have lost compatibility too. If you cannot understand the technical reasons for the problems, and the difference to what you are comparing... then you need to just take it from the people who know, that a change from PPC to Intel was a MAJOR change in how all the software had to work. Apple licensed the tech for Rosetta to have it in 10.4, 10.5 and 10.6 to help people and software makers have time to update their apps. They have to cut it sometime (its been over 5 years)... and instead of trying to fully update the thing to work on Lion and be 64bit (supporting only 32 bit apps too), its a good time to drop it now, since there have been 3 versions of OSX on Intel that could still run most PPC apps (most not all, even several PPC games had problems running with rosetta).

mark28
Jul 26, 2011, 09:38 PM
I can also get 10 year old Windows games running on Lion without a problem, so whats the point?

If Windows had done a major change in processors like Mac OS X did, it would have lost compatibility too. If you cannot understand the technical reasons for the problems, and the difference to what you are comparing... then you need to just take it from the people who know, that a change from PPC to Intel was a MAJOR change in how all the software had to work. Apple licensed the tech for Rosetta to have it in 10.4, 10.5 and 10.6 to help people and software makers have time to update their apps. They have to cut it sometime (its been over 5 years)... and instead of trying to fully update the thing to work on Lion and be 64bit (supporting only 32 bit apps too), its a good time to drop it now, since there have been 3 versions of OSX on Intel that could still run most PPC apps (most not all, even several PPC games had problems running with rosetta).

Windows supports a lot more processors. Windows 8 is even going to support ARM processors and I'm sure 5 year old games work on it too.

And you're running Windows software on your Mac since Wine consists of Windows system libraries that have been reversed engineered.

cerote
Jul 26, 2011, 11:29 PM
And Windows has far more compatibility issues with software and hardware.

doh123
Jul 26, 2011, 11:49 PM
Windows supports a lot more processors. Windows 8 is even going to support ARM processors and I'm sure 5 year old games work on it too.

And you're running Windows software on your Mac since Wine consists of Windows system libraries that have been reversed engineered.

really? They used to make a PPC version of Windows... it ran none of the same software as x86 Windows.

Windows does NOT support more processors, even upcoming versions... and Win8 ARM software will not run on Win8 x86... and vise versa. Its basically two different OSes they are sticking the same name on with a similar UI.

Also Wine has nothing reverse engineered... you must not know anything about it.

mark28
Jul 27, 2011, 01:16 AM
really? They used to make a PPC version of Windows... it ran none of the same software as x86 Windows.

Windows does NOT support more processors, even upcoming versions... and Win8 ARM software will not run on Win8 x86... and vise versa. Its basically two different OSes they are sticking the same name on with a similar UI.

Also Wine has nothing reverse engineered... you must not know anything about it.

"Wine is not an emulator, but is instead a compatibility layer, providing alternative implementations of the DLLs that Windows programs call[citation needed], and a process to substitute for the Windows NT kernel. Wine is predominantly written using Black-box testing reverse-engineering, to avoid copyright issues."

Seems you are the one who knows nothing :rolleyes:

IBM only sold the PPC processors exclusively to Apple, why would Windows support hardware that's not on the market. Windows supports way more CPU's if you count all the old models of AMD and Intel.

wywern209
Jul 27, 2011, 01:19 AM
Windows supports a lot more processors. Windows 8 is even going to support ARM processors and I'm sure 5 year old games work on it too.

And you're running Windows software on your Mac since Wine consists of Windows system libraries that have been reversed engineered.

no. software made for intel/amd procs will not run on arm processors. they will have to be emulated. just like rosetta. the way that the processors understand what the comp tells it to do is different between ppc , x86 and arm processors. so software compiled for one processor won't work with other processors. windows may support lots of processors but when it comes down to it, they are all x86 type proccessors.

Anonymous Freak
Jul 27, 2011, 01:42 AM
5 year old games work on Windows 7 without a problem.

Yet I've also had 5 year old games *NOT* work on Windows 7. (Nor Vista, when the games were only 2-3 years old.) The move to WDM and 64-bit double-whammy was nearly as hard on Windows as the move from PPC to Intel was on Mac OS X.

Without more info from the original poster, we don't really know *WHAT* the problem is. For all we know, it could be an old Classic Mac OS game!

Washac
Jul 27, 2011, 05:19 AM
Hello

Just to say my original post above was posted in anger, anger that should have been pointed at myself for updating without understanding the consequences of the update.

Now feeling :o

doh123
Jul 27, 2011, 08:01 AM
"Wine is not an emulator, but is instead a compatibility layer, providing alternative implementations of the DLLs that Windows programs call[citation needed], and a process to substitute for the Windows NT kernel. Wine is predominantly written using Black-box testing reverse-engineering, to avoid copyright issues."
no idea where that quote came from... giving sources when you quote is nice... but... according to Web definitions.. I'll agree thats what is done, but thats not what I think of when I hear reverse engineering. Wine doesn't pull apart Windows libraries and see how they work, they don't really do more than look at what goes in and what comes out and reproduce it. To me I always thought of reverse engineering as actually taking something apart to see how it worked, not just reproducing it on your own and testing it so it seems the same.

IBM only sold the PPC processors exclusively to Apple, why would Windows support hardware that's not on the market. Windows supports way more CPU's if you count all the old models of AMD and Intel.
that is entirely not true. IBM wasn't the sole owner of PPC, and they did not sell any PPC chips exclusively as far as i know... and they still sell PPC chips today, as well as other people. Amiga went PowerPC, and there was even a few companies selling G3 and G4 motherboards for do-it-yourself Amiga PC builders... The Xbox 360 uses a custom PPC processor... the Cell in the Playstation 3 is based off PPC...

take a look at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_NT and look at all the processor types that it was made for... and know that software made for NT on one processor type only ran on that processor type. They tried building in some emulation so you could run others, but it was horrid

Anonymous Freak
Jul 27, 2011, 01:22 PM
IBM only sold the PPC processors exclusively to Apple, why would Windows support hardware that's not on the market. Windows supports way more CPU's if you count all the old models of AMD and Intel.

that is entirely not true. IBM wasn't the sole owner of PPC, and they did not sell any PPC chips exclusively as far as i know... and they still sell PPC chips today, as well as other people. Amiga went PowerPC, and there was even a few companies selling G3 and G4 motherboards for do-it-yourself Amiga PC builders... The Xbox 360 uses a custom PPC processor... the Cell in the Playstation 3 is based off PPC...

Here you go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bxJIA8hscI
Windows NT on a PowerPC. Natively. It will even run x86 Windows software. (Although only 16-bit software meant for Windows 3.1 and earlier, not 32-bit Windows NT or Windows 95-or-greater software.)

Sorry, mark28, but your statement is wrong. Microsoft supported Windows NT on *FOUR* different processor architectures: x86, DEC Alpha, PowerPC, and MIPS. Look at any Windows NT 4.0 install disc, and you'll see those all listed. DEC Alpha was the best-supported 'alternate' architecture, with support for it living until just before the release of Windows 2000. (There were late W2k betas that still supported Alpha - whereas both MIPS and PowerPC support ended while NT 4.0 was still current.)

Ap0ks
Jul 27, 2011, 01:44 PM
@mark28 - All the old models of AMD and Intel processors are still x86, so it's not really difficult to support them all, supporting different architectures on the other hand...