Before you Install Tiger....

[Mechcozmo]

Seeing as Tiger has been "announced" according to Logik, time for a reminder on what to do before you actually install Tiger!

WARNING! If you are upgrading an iMac G3 to OS X you MUST apply a firmware update first! Otherwise your screen will go BLACK! Thanks to Ed H for finding this linkety (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=75430)

1. Repair your Permissions. This will make sure that after your installation you won't have issues with anything. Of course, this is a bigger issue with an Archive and Install... but anyways... Repairing your permissions will mean that when you are done installing, you will not have any problems opening folders, etc. Oh, and any line starting with "We are using special permissions..." is OK. You do this from the "Applications/Utilities/Disk Utility" application. A nice guide is found here: linkety (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=89736)

2. Repair your hard drive. Start off of the Jaguar, Panther, or Tiger disk and go to the Installer menu->Disk Utility. Choose your hard drive(s) and then Repair Disk. Do this on all of your internal drives (if you have many) until you get the message "The drive Macintosh HD appears to be OK" or similar.

3. Back up your data! Though you rarely hear about an OS X install destroying a drive, you should still back up your hard disk. Or at least your important stuff.

4. Shut down the computer. Unplug all FireWire, USB, etc. devices except for your mouse and keyboard. This way those devices will not be corrupted by the installer and will not corrupt the installation. Those of you with a BT keyboard and mouse may want to stick with your USB one for now, or just turn off other BT devices so you don't have any conflicts.

5. Most people can do an Archive and Install. This is where the old OS X system is moved to a folder in the root level of the hard drive called "Previous System" and the new System is installed. Most settings, etc. are copied over. Remember to check the "Copy over Users and Settings" checkbox (or something to that effect). That way your old data is in its place. If you don't, just remember: Don't Panic! (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0371724/). Your old data is in that Previous System folder. Delete it after a couple of weeks of not using it... that way you regain your hard drive space.

That should keep most of the issues that come about from installations from happening. And remember... only 17 days (or less) until Tiger! :D

[mkrishnan]

Nice post! :D

[ChrisBrightwell]

Is it common to simply upgrade one version of OS X to the next? I'm from a very strong Windows background, where formatting is all but required for installing (or reinstalling) a new OS.

I was planning to format my Powerbook and install Tiger from scratch. I may be reconsidering that, though. :)

Insight, anyone?

[iGary]

Personally, this is going to be my first fresh install since 10.2.

I really want to give Spotlight a nice clean disc and OS to start out with.

All my machines are gonna get a freash install, but all good points made above. :)

[mcadam]

Thankyou Mechcozmo for taking so good care of us :)

I really feel like doing a clean install, start all over, clear the air... but unless you wanna do that, then...

Is it common to simply upgrade one version of OS X to the next? I'm from a very strong Windows background, where formatting is all but required for installing (or reinstalling) a new OS.

I was planning to format my Powerbook and install Tiger from scratch. I may be reconsidering that, though.

Insight, anyone?

...this isn't necessary

A

[kettle]

Yeah, fresh disk, I'm going to buy a new one just for the job.

[wdlove]

The Tiger install CD will prepare the hard drive prior to installation. A hard drive can be destroyed with installation of Mac OS X. It happened to my wife with her iBook G3. Luckily it was under AppleCare so the replacement was free. So that is why backing up is so important.

[stcanard]

Is it common to simply upgrade one version of OS X to the next? I'm from a very strong Windows background, where formatting is all but required for installing (or reinstalling) a new OS.

I was planning to format my Powerbook and install Tiger from scratch. I may be reconsidering that, though. :)

Insight, anyone?

I believe the "Archive and Install" option is what is recommended. It preserves all the user data, but rather than overwrite the system files those are (funny enough!) archived, then a new set is created.

The upgrade option is what is most likely to lead to difficulties.

A reformat is pretty much unncecessary, as the archive and install should be sufficient. Because all the configuration is in human-readable XML, issues like registry corruption aren't as bad (worst case scenario you delete the plist for the area that stopped working and let OSX recreate it), and because of better versioning DLL hell isn't nearly as prevalent.

Here's Apple's description of the archive and install option:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=107120

[whocares]

Seeing as Tiger is now out, time for a reminder on what to do before you actually install Tiger!

1. Repair your Permissions. This will make sure that after your installation you won't have issues with anything. Of course, this is a bigger issue with an Archive and Install... but anyways... Repairing your permissions will mean that when you are done installing, you will not have any problems opening folders, etc. Oh, and any line starting with "We are using special permissions..." is OK.

2. Repair your hard drive. Start off of the Jaguar, Panther, or Tiger disk and go to the Installer menu->Disk Utility. Choose your hard drive(s) and then Repair Disk. Do this on all of your internal drives (if you have many) until you get the message "The drive Macintosh HD appears to be OK" or similar.

3. Shut down the computer. Unplug all FireWire, USB, etc. devices except for your mouse and keyboard. This way those devices will not be corrupted by the installer and will not corrupt the installation. Those of you with a BT keyboard and mouse may want to stick with your USB one for now, or just turn off other BT devices so you don't have any conflicts.

4. Back up your data! Though you rarely hear about an OS X install destroying a drive, you should still back up your hard disk. Or at least your important stuff.

That should keep most of the issues that come about from installations from happening. And remember... only 17 days until Tiger! :D


Hmmmmm, I was following your advice, but when I get to step 4, I find it impossible to back up my data.


Do I need to plug stuff back in and turn on my Mac? :confused:










Ok, end of stupid jokes :p


May I recommend CarbonCopyCloner (http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/13260) for your back up needs (in conjunction with a FW HDD).

[Logik]

Seeing as Tiger is now out, time for a reminder on what to do before you actually install Tiger!

<snip>

only 17 days until Tiger! :D

make up your mind... Tiger is only available for pre-order, it is not "out" as you say, and then say isn't. either way i'm sure i'm nitpicking, but whatever. i hate taxes and now i'm pissed off about it. :-P

[Fredstar]

I am gonna use the backup app to backup all my Mail messages/docs/tunes etc etc to a few dvd-rw's and then use Backup in Tiger to restore them all into the fresh Tiger install.
Any reason this wouldn't work?

[IJ Reilly]

Is it common to simply upgrade one version of OS X to the next? I'm from a very strong Windows background, where formatting is all but required for installing (or reinstalling) a new OS.

I was planning to format my Powerbook and install Tiger from scratch. I may be reconsidering that, though. :)

Insight, anyone?

Starting from scratch is certainly not necessary, and probably not even advisable. Though I suppose it gives some people warm and fuzzy feelings, IMO, it's a complete waste of time and effort, and it seems to me, wiping a HD puts more at risk than simply upgrading the way Apple intended upgrading to work.

The backup and repairing permissions advice is certainly worthy, though I've gone through many major MacOS upgrades without taking either precaution and never had a serious problem.

[ChrisBrightwell]

Starting from scratch is [...] probably not even advisable. [...]
[W]iping a HD puts more at risk than simply upgrading the way Apple intended upgrading to work. [...]
Are you referring to data loss or physical damage?

[kugino]

i'm sure everyone here knows this, but for the switchers/newbies, if you want to backup your drive completely, including all hidden files and library and system stuff, use carbon copy cloner.

though i did a fresh install going from jaguar->panther, i think i'll use the archive and install when installing tiger b/c i have so much stuff accumulated.

[jeremy.king]

Wouldn't this apply to any OS upgrade (9->X, X.1->X.2, X.2->X.3, etc). While its good to remind people, I fail to see any additional value of this thread.

[ChrisBrightwell]

[...] use carbon copy cloner. Have you used rsyncx? How do they compare?

though i did a fresh install going from jaguar->panther, i think i'll use the archive and install when installing tiger b/c i have so much stuff accumulated.I keep everything in my home folder, so moving that from one drive to another isn't too big of an issue for me.

[CubaTBird]

put tiger install dvd in.. boot to it.. launch disk utility.. format disk using "write random zero's option" ----> clean as possible install

[Guitarius]

Three questions.

1. How does one repair permissions?

2. As far as backing up all my stuff, can I just copy it all to another computer? I have three computers in my house, all running redhat, with a few hundred gigs a piece, that my stepfather uses to back up his stuff from his PCs when he reformats. I've yet to figure out why he has three, but to each his own.

3. Will Tiger keep all my documents, music, etc, or will I have to copy all that stuff back onto my computer once I install Tiger? I do not plan on reformatting. I'll probably do the archive and install.

I'm really excited about Tiger. My first upgrade since I bought my iBook. :D

[ravenvii]

Fresh install for me. I love the feel of a freshly installed OS. I almost never store anything of importance on the HD that aren't stored somewhere else as well, so a fresh install was never a hassle for me.

[Mechcozmo]

make up your mind... Tiger is only available for pre-order, it is not "out" as you say, and then say isn't. either way i'm sure i'm nitpicking, but whatever. i hate taxes and now i'm pissed off about it. :-P

Nit picker. Meh. :p I'll fix it JUST FOR YOU. Sound good? ;)

Wouldn't this apply to any OS upgrade (9->X, X.1->X.2, X.2->X.3, etc). While its good to remind people, I fail to see any additional value of this thread.

Yes, its good advice for any OS upgrade. But perhaps you are forgetting the vast, untapped, segment of the population that likes one button mice because they don't have to guess what the other button does and why they don't work the same?
Essentially, I can just forward all calls for help to you if you don't like this thread, right? ;)

[kiwi-in-uk]

How about... to remind people? :)

I agree.

Many of us here have switched from Windows, this is our first OSX upgrade, and so we are not familiar with just how many precautions to take.

My first reaction, for example, would be to back everything up, scratch the disk, apply the new version of s/w, reinstall applications, restore the data files, then spend a couple of hours restoring settings.

Why? Because Windows is not forgiving and accumulates junk; a clean install allows us to reset settings and clear the registry among other things.

We are wondering whether we need to do this (registry excluded, obviously) for OSX, and/or whether there are any benefits.

Thank you to all of you who post useful information for those of us who know little about these things.

[pdpfilms]

So i would like to retain all preferences and documents and such, but do a fresh install of tiger. Archive install, right?
After an archive install, what do you do with the old system? Do you have to manually copy all the system files to the new system?

[Logik]

Nit picker. Meh. :p I'll fix it JUST FOR YOU. Sound good? ;)



sounds good :-P I just started reading and was like.. "uh.. it's not.. out yet.. why is he saying that?" then continued.. and then you say "only 17 more days".. and i'm thinking to myself.. this guy is running in circles.. must... help.. him... :-P

[IJ Reilly]

Are you referring to data loss or physical damage?

Data loss -- the chance you'll miss backing up something important before you pull the reformat trigger. I simply do not see the point in going the reformat route. You might notice the lack of sound technical reasons for starting from scratch stated by the reformatting advocates. It just makes some people feel better. It certainly wouldn't make me feel any better.

[Eric5h5]

So i would like to retain all preferences and documents and such, but do a fresh install of tiger. Archive install, right?

Yep.

After an archive install, what do you do with the old system?

Leave it for a while just in case, then dump it.

Do you have to manually copy all the system files to the new system?

Egads! Nope.... :)

--Eric

[pdpfilms]

Could never get help this good on a PC forum. Thanks Eric5h5.

[mkrishnan]

Could never get help this good on a PC forum. Thanks Eric5h5.

I dunno...DellRumors (http://www.dellrumors.com/) is a pretty sweet site! :p :D

Also, note, if it is like Panther Archive and Install, apparently there will be an option to transport the home directory over, or to retain preferences, and if you select it, then you will keep your account and all preferences. If you don't, then your account files will be in a directory in the saved system folder, and you'll have to move the ones you want over to your new account folder.

[puckhead193]

I dunno...DellRumors (http://www.dellrumors.com/) is a pretty sweet site! :p :D

Also, note, if it is like Panther Archive and Install, apparently there will be an option to transport the home directory over, or to retain preferences, and if you select it, then you will keep your account and all preferences. If you don't, then your account files will be in a directory in the saved system folder, and you'll have to move the ones you want over to your new account folder.

"Axim shuffle" what the hell, i hope that is fake link (http://www.dellrumors.com/images/AximShuffle.png) They stoll the slogen and the shuffle arrows

[pdpfilms]

dunno...DellRumors is a pretty sweet site!

hahahahahahahahahahahahaha i can't deny it, that is pretty sweet.

[pdpfilms]

"Axim shuffle" what the hell, i hope that is fake link They stoll the slogen and the shuffle arrows

......um......
...somebody else wanna say it?

[mkrishnan]

hahahahahahahahahahahahaha i can't deny it, that is pretty sweet.

It's almost a tribute site to MacRumors...someone here put it up, and there was a thread about it a while back.

Puckhead, of course it's a spoof. Did you *see* the iPod made out of a brick?

[mkrishnan]

......um......
...somebody else wanna say it?

Shoot, now you have me thinking it would have been more fun to play this out for a while.

Yes, ummm, I have my Axim Shuffle on pre-order. At least Dell didn't go out of business five years ago like Apple did! :p

[sorryiwasdreami]

"Axim shuffle" what the hell, i hope that is fake link (http://www.dellrumors.com/images/AximShuffle.png) They stoll the slogen and the shuffle arrows

The site is completely fake, man.

[JzzTrump22]

Thanks for the post. I probably wouldn't of remembered all that.

[uaaerospace]

I dunno...DellRumors (http://www.dellrumors.com/) is a pretty sweet site! :p :D


That's the funniest thing I've seen in a while. Nice job whoever created it. :D

Also nice job on this thread. I have always simply upgraded without wiping the HD and have had great success. I think I'll continue that tradition with Tiger. ~Josh

[bostonwhaler1]

Just chiming in with another vote for the "Don't bother reformatting" camp.

After many many many OSX installs (daily, ha ha), I have never had an issue with NOT reformatting the drive. Archive and Install is a great way to get up and running with your new OS is basically no time flat. One of my favorite features of OSX actually. I would however suggest repairing permissions and checking your hard drive before you throw that 10.4 disk in, just to be sure that everything's kosher.

So fear not, enlightened switchers! Your road to a clean Tiger install shall be a smooth one.

And now, we wait...

[Mechcozmo]

Could never get help this good on a PC forum. Thanks Eric5h5.

Hey! ;)

Oh, and I edited it with new info on Archive and Installing, etc. And for the nitpickers, I changed the order so you backup before unplugging everything among others.

[mkrishnan]

Oh, and I edited it with new info on Archive and Installing, etc. And for the nitpickers, I changed the order so you backup before unplugging everything among others.

Excellent Hitchhiker's reference. :)

[Mechcozmo]

Excellent Hitchhiker's reference. :)

Thank you, thank you very much.

[Abstract]

Just chiming in with another vote for the "Don't bother reformatting" camp.

After many many many OSX installs (daily, ha ha), I have never had an issue with NOT reformatting the drive. Archive and Install is a great way to get up and running with your new OS is basically no time flat. One of my favorite features of OSX actually. I would however suggest repairing permissions and checking your hard drive before you throw that 10.4 disk in, just to be sure that everything's kosher.

So fear not, enlightened switchers! Your road to a clean Tiger install shall be a smooth one.

And now, we wait...

And I don't know all the technical features, but one reason not to bother with a reformat and clean install is because if you're just going to do that and move those preferences back over to your newly installed OS, you may bring any problems back with you to your new system. There's no point if you're going to just move settings over to Tiger.

Maybe I'm wrong though. So if you don't mind doing a fresh install and reinstalling all apps and redoing all screen/LCD calibrations, system preferences, and all app preferences, then cool. Otherwise, what's the point?

QUESTION: If someone were to wipe their drive and do a full reformat and all....hell, even zero their entire drive, and they were to install OSX Tiger on their system clean and fresh, what version of iLife would they have on their system? Same as their previous version? :confused: Or maybe they would need their old system disks, or their copy of iLife 04 or 05, to reinstall iLife? :confused: :confused:

[Platform]

Yep.



Leave it for a while just in case, then dump it.



Egads! Nope.... :)

--Eric

Just got a bit unsure now :o

if you choose upgrade: that updates your OS and keeps your files, home directory etc. :confused: and deletes the old OS files or??

[takao]

other question : (i don't want to open a new thread fo that because it has to do with OS X installing)

a friend from university is pulling the trigger on mac mini in may but he is buying it in the US (because it's cheaper there and he is there at that time anyways) so the question is: is it possible to isntall the OS in a different Language with the same disk ? (he wants the OS in german)

or do i have do lend him my (german?) 10.3.7 install disk and he updates then to Tiger with his disks ?

i'm rather clueless about this whole thing because i've never reisntalled so far

[Abstract]

Dunno. I suggest switching all your settings to German to see if all the menu's of OSX Panther change.

[the future]

Just got a bit unsure now :o

if you choose upgrade: that updates your OS and keeps your files, home directory etc. :confused: and deletes the old OS files or??

That's exactly the difference between Upgrade and Archive & Install: Upgrade overwrites the old system files, A&I archives them in a folder called "Previous System". Your home directory and settings are kept intact in both cases (using A&I you can choose not to keep them, but why would you).

other question : (i don't want to open a new thread fo that because it has to do with OS X installing)

a friend from university is pulling the trigger on mac mini in may but he is buying it in the US (because it's cheaper there and he is there at that time anyways) so the question is: is it possible to isntall the OS in a different Language with the same disk ? (he wants the OS in german)

or do i have do lend him my (german?) 10.3.7 install disk and he updates then to Tiger with his disks ?

i'm rather clueless about this whole thing because i've never reisntalled so far

The OS X system disk were always multilingual, i.e. you can choose during installation which is your prefered language. Tiger will surely be the same.

[takao]

thx everybody

i wasn't sure if the dvds/cds were multilingual (which normally hardly any software company does) we simply gonna try it out ;)

(i found the thing for switching the language but i didn't get to test it ou completly ...thanks for the tip)

[atari1356]

Could never get help this good on a PC forum. Thanks Eric5h5.

The people on the SysOpt Forums (http://www.sysopt.com/forum/index.php?s=) have been pretty helpful with PC questions I've had. (MacRumors is still better, but... ;) )

[atari1356]

3. Back up your data! Though you rarely hear about an OS X install destroying a drive, you should still back up your hard disk. Or at least your important stuff.

... and if you don't have a large external hard drive, now might be the time to consider getting one so you can back everything up. At the very least, back up things that you consider important to CD/DVD/iPod.

[Abulia]

QUESTION: If someone were to wipe their drive and do a full reformat and all....hell, even zero their entire drive, and they were to install OSX Tiger on their system clean and fresh, what version of iLife would they have on their system? Same as their previous version? :confused: Or maybe they would need their old system disks, or their copy of iLife 04 or 05, to reinstall iLife? :confused: :confused:Easy, they'd have no version of iLife: Tiger doesn't come w/ iLife.

[wrldwzrd89]

I think the days before a known major operating system release that you intend to upgrade to are great days to sort through all the stuff you've accumulated and only keep what you truly need. Here's how I do it:

Anything that I definitely need now or soon I keep.
Anything that I don't need now, but probably will need in the future I archive. The archival method I use depends on how often I expect to use the data I'm archiving.
The remainder consists of stuff that's out of date or never gets used - this stuff gets deleted.

[billyb]

put tiger install dvd in.. boot to it.. launch disk utility.. format disk using "write random zero's option" ----> clean as possible install

This is a naive question which is a "hangover" from my PC days. Once, when I reformatted on of my old Windows PCs, I deleted the drivers for the CD drive and could then not reinstall Windows. I assume from CubaTBird's comment that if I boot to the Tiger CD and format my hard drive once booted to the CD, I won't have this problem? I'll be able to continue with the Tiger installation?

This is probably the route I'd like to take. Though as most people said, it's probably more psychological than necessary.

-bb

[wrldwzrd89]

This is a naive question which is a "hangover" from my PC days. Once, when I reformatted on of my old Windows PCs, I deleted the drivers for the CD drive and could then not reinstall Windows. I assume from CubaTBird's comment that if I boot to the Tiger CD and format my hard drive once booted to the CD, I won't have this problem? I'll be able to continue with the Tiger installation?

This is probably the route I'd like to take. Though as most people said, it's probably more psychological than necessary.

-bb
Macs have been able to boot from CDs since the System 7 days. Driver problems were uncommon, but not unheard of, in those days (System 7 to Mac OS 9); you only had to deal with them if you had a third-party CD drive. With modern Macs running Mac OS X, even if you have a third-party drive, this problem's occurrence has been reduced to practically zero.

In other words, install as you please. Mac OS X will take care of the hardware side of things for you.

[7on]

Macs have been able to boot from CDs since the System 7 days. Driver problems were uncommon, but not unheard of, in those days (System 7 to Mac OS 9); you only had to deal with them if you had a third-party CD drive. With modern Macs running Mac OS X, even if you have a third-party drive, this problem's occurrence has been reduced to practically zero.

In other words, install as you please. Mac OS X will take care of the hardware side of things for you.

And one of the main reasons why Mac OSX isn't released on PCs, because of the hardware.

[rtdgoldfish]

QUESTION: If someone were to wipe their drive and do a full reformat and all....hell, even zero their entire drive, and they were to install OSX Tiger on their system clean and fresh, what version of iLife would they have on their system? Same as their previous version? :confused: Or maybe they would need their old system disks, or their copy of iLife 04 or 05, to reinstall iLife? :confused: :confused:

I was just wondering the same thing. I have a Mini and wanted to do a clean install of Tiger. However, iLife '05 is on the Mac Mini install discs. Will I need to do a clean install from these discs (Panther) and then do an upgrade to Tiger?? I don't want to go out and purchase iLife, I already have it. There must be an easier way to do this.

[Mechcozmo]

I was just wondering the same thing. I have a Mini and wanted to do a clean install of Tiger. However, iLife '05 is on the Mac Mini install discs. Will I need to do a clean install from these discs (Panther) and then do an upgrade to Tiger?? I don't want to go out and purchase iLife, I already have it. There must be an easier way to do this.

If you insert the disk after the Mini is started up in Tiger, maybe it will have an "Install iLife" option?

[wrldwzrd89]

If you insert the disk after the Mini is started up in Tiger, maybe it will have an "Install iLife" option?
My iMac's Software Restore system contains a Mac OS X installer (which I won't need once I get Tiger) and a Software Restorer tool, which restores all the other applications that came with my Mac. I'd suspect that that tool would have an iLife installer inside - it should run just fine from within Tiger, and you don't have to boot from it.

[chaos86]

personally i will make an exact copy of my 60GB powerbook drive onto my identical 9.5mm 2.5" firewire drive and then boot from the FW drive and install tiger over it, without the archive thing. for the time being when i want to play in tiger ill boot from the FW tiger drive. of course, for work ill use panther on the internal just for the stability, till the new OS levels out with 10.4.1 or .2. after its all clear on tiger ill open up the mac and switch em out.

same thing i do every time (since os 9, skipping the 9>X transition for a dual boot option on one drive)

[GroundLoop]

Quick question since I switched after Panther was out. When you do an Archive & Install, how much space does the "Previous system" folder take? I have an 80GiB drive in my Powerbook, 60GiB of which is used. Would I even be able to do an Archive & Install? Do I need to bite the bullet and buy an external HD?

Hickman

[840quadra]

Personally, this is going to be my first fresh install since 10.2.

I really want to give Spotlight a nice clean disc and OS to start out with.

All my machines are gonna get a freash install, but all good points made above. :)


Same here.. I just bought a PM G5, I am just using it as a Toy at this point.. All of my primary work is still done on my (sigh..) G4 upgraded B&W G3. The Digital audio in my signature is only been assembled for about a month now. so in a Sense I have 2 new Powermac computers that will get a flush and reload

[Platform]

That's exactly the difference between Upgrade and Archive & Install: Upgrade overwrites the old system files, A&I archives them in a folder called "Previous System". Your home directory and settings are kept intact in both cases (using A&I you can choose not to keep them, but why would you).



OK thanks for that ;)

[bankshot]

Quick question since I switched after Panther was out. When you do an Archive & Install, how much space does the "Previous system" folder take? I have an 80GiB drive in my Powerbook, 60GiB of which is used. Would I even be able to do an Archive & Install? Do I need to bite the bullet and buy an external HD?

Hickman

Depends on what options were installed with Panther (for example, were all foreign language packs installed? printer drivers?). I never install extra languages, Asian fonts, or unneeded printer drivers (you have to do a custom install and uncheck those options, so most people will probably have them), and my Previous System folders were generally in the 3 GB range. I'd guess with all the other junk installed, it's more like 5 GB, maybe a little more??

By the way, I'll just chime in here and say that I think Archive & Install is the only way to go. It saves your apps (no need to reinstall iLife!), user data and preferences, provided you select the option to do so (as someone said, why would you not). After Tiger's been running along fine for awhile, just delete the Previous Systems folder and go on with life!

Compare that with the pain of an Erase & Install (you have to backup all your data, reinstall all your apps) and the potential problems with Upgrade Install (at best, old junk is left lying around everywhere from the previous system; at worst, old junk from the previous system conflicts with the new system and makes your computer unstable! :eek: ).

[e²Studios]

Depends on what options were installed with Panther (for example, were all foreign language packs installed? printer drivers?). I never install extra languages, Asian fonts, or unneeded printer drivers (you have to do a custom install and uncheck those options, so most people will probably have them), and my Previous System folders were generally in the 3 GB range. I'd guess with all the other junk installed, it's more like 5 GB, maybe a little more??

By the way, I'll just chime in here and say that I think Archive & Install is the only way to go. It saves your apps (no need to reinstall iLife!), user data and preferences, provided you select the option to do so (as someone said, why would you not). After Tiger's been running along fine for awhile, just delete the Previous Systems folder and go on with life!

Compare that with the pain of an Erase & Install (you have to backup all your data, reinstall all your apps) and the potential problems with Upgrade Install (at best, old junk is left lying around everywhere from the previous system; at worst, old junk from the previous system conflicts with the new system and makes your computer unstable! :eek: ).

My Mac Mini is maybe 3 weeks old, i dont have much on it as it is, what would be the issue with just doing a standard "easy upgrade" option? If i do the standard upgrade i shouldnt lose all of my setting i would think/hope. I am still debating if i should arhive install my iBook which is a bit over a year old, and i will definately archive install the iMac.. i think.. This whole upgrade process confuses the hell out of me. I'm just glad on my two newer machiines it should be failry straight forward.... now on to...

One last question.. When i last upgraded my iMac G3 500 DV SE to 10.3 i had to do some sort of firmware update to the hardware before it would work. The install would start but then the screen just went wakko, upon investigation i found that i had to boot in to os9 and apply some update to the hardware. Does anyone know what that was, and if i need to do it again before tyring 10.4 so i dont go bonkers again?

Ed

[IJ Reilly]

And I don't know all the technical features, but one reason not to bother with a reformat and clean install is because if you're just going to do that and move those preferences back over to your newly installed OS, you may bring any problems back with you to your new system. There's no point if you're going to just move settings over to Tiger.

Maybe I'm wrong though. So if you don't mind doing a fresh install and reinstalling all apps and redoing all screen/LCD calibrations, system preferences, and all app preferences, then cool. Otherwise, what's the point?

As far as I can tell, there isn't any good reason to go anything but the upgrade install route. Even archive and install seems pointless to me. I've upgraded from 10.0x to 10.3x on several Macs with no problems. Given the amount of times people are advised to reinstall OSX to "fix" problems that most certainly have nothing to do with the OS, I guess I shouldn't be surprised by the number of people who get some kind of good-feeling hit from wiping a hard drive. But let's not mistake it for usefulness -- and please, let's not recommend it.

[Mechcozmo]

One last question.. When i last upgraded my iMac G3 500 DV SE to 10.3 i had to do some sort of firmware update to the hardware before it would work. The install would start but then the screen just went wakko, upon investigation i found that i had to boot in to os9 and apply some update to the hardware. Does anyone know what that was, and if i need to do it again before tyring 10.4 so i dont go bonkers again?

Ed

Shouldn't need to do that again... but I'll add that to the FAQ!

[GroundLoop]

Depends on what options were installed with Panther (for example, were all foreign language packs installed? printer drivers?). I never install extra languages, Asian fonts, or unneeded printer drivers (you have to do a custom install and uncheck those options, so most people will probably have them), and my Previous System folders were generally in the 3 GB range. I'd guess with all the other junk installed, it's more like 5 GB, maybe a little more??

By the way, I'll just chime in here and say that I think Archive & Install is the only way to go. It saves your apps (no need to reinstall iLife!), user data and preferences, provided you select the option to do so (as someone said, why would you not). After Tiger's been running along fine for awhile, just delete the Previous Systems folder and go on with life!

Compare that with the pain of an Erase & Install (you have to backup all your data, reinstall all your apps) and the potential problems with Upgrade Install (at best, old junk is left lying around everywhere from the previous system; at worst, old junk from the previous system conflicts with the new system and makes your computer unstable! :eek: ).

Follow up question:

Are your music files stored in the "Previous System" folder? I have about 25 GiB of music. So if that is replicated into the "previous System" folder, then I will either have to burn them to DVDs or get the external drive.

Thanks for the response.

Hickman

[Mechcozmo]

Are your music files stored in the "Previous System" folder? I have about 25 GiB of music. So if that is replicated into the "previous System" folder, then I will either have to burn them to DVDs or get the external drive.

If you check the box to preserve the settings, then they will not be moved there. If you do NOT check the box then they will be moved there, but it is just a simple drag and drop into iTunes again and then deleting the originals.

[Little King]

Sorry if this has been asked already, I don't think it has, if I were to do an Archive and Install, would my Applications still remain in the Applications folder, or would I have to re-install them?

Thanks for the help,

Little King.

[wrldwzrd89]

Sorry if this has been asked already, I don't think it has, if I were to do an Archive and Install, would my Applications still remain in the Applications folder, or would I have to re-install them?

Thanks for the help,

Little King.
Applications in your user-level Applications folder are only archived if you choose not to keep the users and network settings. Applications in the system-level Applications folder are always archived.

[NeoMayhem]

I will definitely be doing a clean install. I have done about 10 clean installs of jaguar about another 10 or so clean installs of panther, all on my iBook G3.

Doing one more clean install will not be a big deal for me, however, I will probably end up doing an archive install on my families computer.

Because I have several more days to back things up and plan for the clean install, I will probably end up using the HFSX filesystem for tiger, as described in this hint: http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=200502011939237&query=hfs

[lssmit02]

As far as I can tell, there isn't any good reason to go anything but the upgrade install route. Even archive and install seems pointless to me. I've upgraded from 10.0x to 10.3x on several Macs with no problems. Given the amount of times people are advised to reinstall OSX to "fix" problems that most certainly have nothing to do with the OS, I guess I shouldn't be surprised by the number of people who get some kind of good-feeling hit from wiping a hard drive. But let's not mistake it for usefulness -- and please, let's not recommend it.
Sorry to bring this thread back to life, but IJ Reilly seems to have a valid point, particularly when comparing the upgrade option to archive & install where you preserve your settings. From what I can tell, if you are happy with how Panther is running (from a stability point of view, not a features point of view :) ), just upgrade to Tiger. Is there really a chance that any part of the system won't be replaced by the upgrade path? If so, what is it, and does it matter? Doesn't an archive and install of Tiger where you preserve all your settings and import the home directory just reinstall all of the "problems" that would be present in an upgrade of Tiger? If this is wrong, I'd love to understand why, because then I would do the archive and install option.

[mkrishnan]

Doesn't an archive and install of Tiger where you preserve all your settings and import the home directory just reinstall all of the "problems" that would be present in an upgrade of Tiger? If this is wrong, I'd love to understand why, because then I would do the archive and install option.

This is true, and for this reason, I'm going to do an archive and install *without* importing the users, and then I'm going to manually bring some stuff over from my user folder (iTunes and iPhoto libraries, Documents folder, bookmarks, maybe a couple of other things) and re-create most of the rest. It'll be time-consuming, but fun, in a sick sort of way. :) And I bought a Mac to have fun in a sick sort of way! :D

[stcanard]

From what I can tell, if you are happy with how Panther is running (from a stability point of view, not a features point of view :) ), just upgrade to Tiger. Is there really a chance that any part of the system won't be replaced by the upgrade path? If so, what is it, and does it matter?

For the most part you are right, and most people won't see a problem.

The part that upgrade doesn't necessarily touch is the system configuration like /etc /var and the like. It tries to be smart and retain the settings and changes that were made on the older system, and this can run you into problems if there is a newer version of the software that doesn't work well with these settings, or you've installed extra software that conflicts (for instance you're running a custom version of qmail, and tiger is installing and starting postfix). Other things like jobs that used to be in crontab, but now are in Tiger's new deamon start system could be problems.

If this happens, the problem won't be obvious and will likely show itself in wierd and unintuituve ways that you will probably just write off as Tiger's instability.

The more customizations you do to your system, the more likely something like this is to show up. OTOH if you don't touch the system files, don't install hacks and plugins, you're probably safe just to do an upgrade. That's why there is so much dissent between the upgrade and archive/install camps. Neither has ever had the other's experience, because they use their systems so differently.

Doesn't an archive and install of Tiger where you preserve all your settings and import the home directory just reinstall all of the "problems" that would be present in an upgrade of Tiger? If this is wrong, I'd love to understand why, because then I would do the archive and install option.

Not necessarily, because the archive and install only preserves the settings under your user directory which shouldn't be affected by software upgrades. If they are it's fairly easy to trash the plist, because it will show up in an individual application, instead of something that's buried deeper in the system.

The reason to do an archive and install is that a conflict, if it does arise, will likely be very difficult to identify and correct. You may not even realize it's a problem and just be disappointed in Tiger. So for the most part, even though most people probably won't run into a problem, it's safer to do the archive and install and not have to worry about it.

It also helps clean out the crud that tends to accumulate in the system directories.

[lssmit02]

It'll be time-consuming, but fun, in a sick sort of way. :) And I bought a Mac to have fun in a sick sort of way! :D
Amen! :D

The part that upgrade doesn't necessarily touch is the system configuration like /etc /var and the like.things like jobs that used to be in crontab, but now are in Tiger's new deamon start system could be problems.
Cool, this is the kind of stuff I was wondering about. I run FAH from crontab, and your right, there is always "crud" from installing junk to see how it works, if it works, etc. So, archive and install, even if you do preserve your settings, does not copy all of the existing settings. Would you advise doing with mkrishnan is going to do, archive and install without preserving settings, then?

[stcanard]

Cool, this is the kind of stuff I was wondering about. I run FAH from crontab, and your right, there is always "crud" from installing junk to see how it works, if it works, etc. So, archive and install, even if you do preserve your settings, does not copy all of the existing settings. Would you advise doing with mkrishnan is going to do, archive and install without preserving settings, then?

Copying the user settings is one I've personally never bothered with, I'm just too lazy. My personal opinion is that anything from your ~/Library that's a problem will show up in userland issues, at which point I'll just go to the console log to troubleshoot them. The build up of files in ~/Library does bug me, but I try my best not to think about it :(

[Huff]

Ok, this will be my first Mac upgrade (switched 7 months ago) and I'm trying to figure the best way to make this go smoothly. My main concern is a Final Cut project that consists of approximately 90 gigs of video. I have space to back up everything else important (pics, music, ect) that is on my iMac, but not all the video. What is the best option to get Tiger up and running without loosing the work I have done in FC? Thanks!

[kaltsasa]

Is it common to simply upgrade one version of OS X to the next? I'm from a very strong Windows background, where formatting is all but required for installing (or reinstalling) a new OS.

I was planning to format my Powerbook and install Tiger from scratch. I may be reconsidering that, though. :)

Insight, anyone?

I've gone from 10.2 to 10.3 to 10.4 now on an Ibook with out a whiff of an issue. Seems to me the upgrades usually go off with out a hitch. On my Windows box I wouldn't dream of upgrading, format and install. One of the many ways the Mac is superior, time saved on upgrading.

[bankshot]

What is the best option to get Tiger up and running without loosing the work I have done in FC? Thanks!

Archive & Install. It shouldn't touch anything under your home folder, so you'll be left with a fresh Tiger installation with all of your personal stuff intact.

That said, if you want to be ultra paranoid and ultra safe, you might consider waiting until you finish that project before upgrading. OS upgrades, no matter how good, are a big deal and especially with the first release of a new major version, there are a lot of unknowns. No major company would (or should) do such an upgrade in the middle of a critical project, at least until they've had time to test it offline and/or get feedback from other users. If you feel your data is that critical, you might consider this.

At the same time, I know how tempting it is to jump in and upgrade. :D My copy should be arriving today, but I've been planning to hold off and read reports about any issues before taking the plunge myself. Like you, I have gigs and gigs of important data, and I don't want to lose it because of some obscure bug that never came up in Apple's testing. It's extremely unlikely but possible. For example some people with certain FireWire drives had them wiped out with Panther, and the iTunes 2 installer had a bug that could delete an entire disk partition if you had your disks setup in a particular way. :eek: Caution doesn't always hurt. :)

We'll see if I can even last the weekend before breaking down and installing, though. :D I'll be using Archive & Install whenever that happens.

[amac4me]

Ok, this will be my first Mac upgrade (switched 7 months ago) and I'm trying to figure the best way to make this go smoothly. My main concern is a Final Cut project that consists of approximately 90 gigs of video. I have space to back up everything else important (pics, music, ect) that is on my iMac, but not all the video. What is the best option to get Tiger up and running without loosing the work I have done in FC? Thanks!

I too have concerns upgrading to Tiger. I'm using FCP HD and I can't seem to find any information about FCP and a Tiger upgrade. My concerns are centered around FCP HD's use of QT6 and Tiger's use of QT7. I'd hate to upgrade and then run into problems

[bankshot]

I'd hate to upgrade and then run into problems

I'd suggest reading MacInTouch (http://www.macintouch.com/) over the next several days or even weeks. Of all the Mac sites I've seen, I think they're about the best at compiling user reports into a nice readable format. Currently they have a Tiger review, reader reports with Tiger, and lists of hardware or software that's reported to be compatible or incompatible with Tiger. Very valuable information!

[amac4me]

I'd suggest reading MacInTouch (http://www.macintouch.com/) over the next several days or even weeks. Of all the Mac sites I've seen, I think they're about the best at compiling user reports into a nice readable format. Currently they have a Tiger review, reader reports with Tiger, and lists of hardware or software that's reported to be compatible or incompatible with Tiger. Very valuable information!


Thanks for the link. I'll keep my eye on it over the next few days and see if anything with FCP HD pop us. Thanks