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englishman
Aug 15, 2011, 05:51 AM
I appreciate (but don't agree with) the arguments for minimum included RAM and then let the users add their own.

But I know many who simply stick with what they came with.

So how much should be in the next Pros? And why.

I guess lots of people use virtualisation now so that needs to be factored in.



alphaod
Aug 15, 2011, 05:54 AM
12GB for the single processor model
24GB for the dual processor model

That should be sufficient for most people.

maflynn
Aug 15, 2011, 05:55 AM
I'm not sure what your point is.

Are you stating what the minimum ram apple should provide, or the minimum ram the consumer should be running with?

If its the latter, I don't look at what I need as a minimum but how much ram I need to keep the computer running efficiently.

englishman
Aug 15, 2011, 06:01 AM
I'm not sure what your point is.

Are you stating what the minimum ram apple should provide, or the minimum ram the consumer should be running with?

If its the latter, I don't look at what I need as a minimum but how much ram I need to keep the computer running efficiently.

Hi yes I meant included as I appreciate some will need a lot more.

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12GB for the single processor model
24GB for the dual processor model

That should be sufficient for most people.

Do we know yet whether there will even be a SP model?

I guess I was thinking of the SP model when asking the question.

My point is that 3GB in the current SP is for a workstation very low and I would have thought 6GB should have been the minimum in the 2010 models. I hope Apple are more realistic next time.

theSeb
Aug 15, 2011, 06:03 AM
They will include 6 GBs or 3 GBs. I cannot see Apple being generous and including more.

maflynn
Aug 15, 2011, 06:06 AM
They will include 6 GBs or 3 GBs. I cannot see Apple being generous and including more.

Apple has never been "generous" with stock ram levels. In fact they have history of providing less then what you really need. For instance 2gb of ram for a mini is much to low to have a decent functioning system running lion

englishman
Aug 15, 2011, 06:08 AM
Current prices at Crucial

12GB kit (4GBx3) - US $167.99 (UK 123.59)

theSeb
Aug 15, 2011, 06:10 AM
Apple has never been "generous" with stock ram levels. In fact they have history of providing less then what you really need. For instance 2gb of ram for a mini is much to low to have a decent functioning system running lion

Agreed. However other manufacturers such as Dell or Lenovo aren't generous with the amount of RAM in their workstations either.

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Current prices at Crucial

12GB kit (4GBx3) - US $167.99 (UK 123.59)

I am pretty sure that is non-ECC RAM - not that ECC vs non-ECC matters to 99% of Mac Pro users.

englishman
Aug 15, 2011, 06:13 AM
Apple has never been "generous" with stock ram levels. In fact they have history of providing less then what you really need. For instance 2gb of ram for a mini is much to low to have a decent functioning system running lion

I've noticed that since since I've been buying Macs but 3GB these days in the MP is less than the iMacs (4GB).

I would have thought Apple should have made a minor refresh to eg 6GB and should be more realistic next round.

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Agreed. However other manufacturers such as Dell or Lenovo aren't generous with the amount of RAM in their workstations either.

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I am pretty sure that is non-ECC RAM - not that ECC vs non-ECC matters to 99% of Mac Pro users.

Crucial wouldn't do that - its ECC:-

Module Size: 12GB kit (4GBx3)
Package: 240-pin DIMM
Feature: DDR3 PC3-8500
Specs: DDR3 PC3-8500 • CL=7 • Unbuffered • ECC • DDR3-1066 • 1.5V • 512Meg x 72 •

Depending on the model Dell at least do 25% more either 4GB 6GB or 8GB minimum depending on the model and that is for UK 600 ish Xeons

theSeb
Aug 15, 2011, 06:19 AM
I've noticed that since since I've been buying Macs but 3GB these days in the MP is less than the iMacs (4GB).

I would have thought Apple should have made a minor refresh to eg 6GB and should be more realistic next round.

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Crucial wouldn't do that - its ECC:-

Module Size: 12GB kit (4GBx3)
Package: 240-pin DIMM
Feature: DDR3 PC3-8500
Specs: DDR3 PC3-8500 • CL=7 • Unbuffered • ECC • DDR3-1066 • 1.5V • 512Meg x 72 •

Depending on the model Dell at least do 25% more either 4GB 6GB or 8GB minimum depending on the model and that is for UK 600 ish Xeons

I see. I didn't realise how cheap ECC RAM was these days. I really don't care how much memory they put into it - I just want the new model now.

Edit: They should really have revised the prices at least for the current Mac Pro since they are an embarrassment or a horrible joke gone wrong (for the SP models anyway).

englishman
Aug 15, 2011, 06:24 AM
... - I just want the new model now.

Me too - the current Nehalem (not Westmere hex) models are an embarrassment compared to the i7s etc for the price (new) - still good machines though. This is reflected I think by the current very low historically used prices in the UK.

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Edit: They should really have revised the prices at least for the current Mac Pro since they are an embarrassment or a horrible joke gone wrong (for the SP models anyway).

Exactly - embarrassment all round! ;)

nanofrog
Aug 15, 2011, 08:07 AM
The next model will use the LGA2011 chips, which has 4x memory channels on the die, not 3 as current LGA1366 based models do.

So the base models of the next MP's will include 4GB for SP, and 8GB for DP systems.

It's the cheapest Apple can do and still show the full memory bandwidth in testing, particularly with synthetic benchmarks, which is exactly what they've been doing with the LGA1366 based models, so there's nothing really different going on.

Hellhammer
Aug 15, 2011, 08:14 AM
The next model will use the LGA2011 chips, which has 4x memory channels on the die, not 3 as current LGA1366 based models do.

So the base models of the next MP's will include 4GB for SP, and 8GB for DP systems.

It's the cheapest Apple can do and still show the full memory bandwidth in testing, particularly with synthetic benchmarks, which is exactly what they've been doing with the LGA1366 based models, so there's nothing really different going on.

And I bet none of us really wants Apple to include more than the absolute minimum in Mac Pro. $525 for 3x4GB from Apple, whereas OWC sells the same for $133 :eek:

englishman
Aug 15, 2011, 08:14 AM
The next model will use the LGA2011 chips, which has 4x memory channels on the die, not 3 as current LGA1366 based models do.

So the base models of the next MP's will include 4GB for SP, and 8GB for DP systems.

It's the cheapest Apple can do and still show the full memory bandwidth in testing, particularly with synthetic benchmarks, which is exactly what they've been doing with the LGA1366 based models, so there's nothing really different going on.

Or 8GB and 16GB

Wild-Bill
Aug 15, 2011, 08:14 AM
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I agree with nanofrog. 4 gigs for a SP configuration and 8 gigs for a DP configuration. Anything less would be an insult.

I can't wait to see what the new MP will offer. USB 3.0 ?? EOL'd video cards? I want to see an AMD Radeon HD 6980.
Of course by the time the MP comes put the 7980 will probably be out.....

interrobang
Aug 15, 2011, 08:22 AM
Apple should ship them as bare chassis with no memory by default.

Buyers who want to pay Apple prices for convenience (or warranty) can do a custom config. Buyers who don't will have no problem buying their own.

Yeah, I know Apple won't do that, but it should.

philipma1957
Aug 15, 2011, 08:48 AM
I can't vote I would want 3gb ram. Please mod your choice. I will then vote for 3gb.

Concorde Rules
Aug 15, 2011, 09:27 AM
Quad Channel + Decent spec = 8GB

Although it's probably going to be 4GB! :roll eyes: :(

theSeb
Aug 15, 2011, 09:58 AM
So the base models of the next MP's will include 4GB for SP, and 8GB for DP systems.



Makes sense.

DisMyMac
Aug 15, 2011, 10:20 AM
Every computer sold should come with an addressed envelope to mail the stock RAM someplace for cash. They should make it a law (no envelope = $10,000 fine).

nanofrog
Aug 15, 2011, 10:46 AM
And I bet none of us really wants Apple to include more than the absolute minimum in Mac Pro. $525 for 3x4GB from Apple, whereas OWC sells the same for $133 :eek:
Definitely. :D

Or 8GB and 16GB
That would require 2GB DIMM's, which cost more money. Apple likes high margins, so it's not likely, no matter how close the 1GB and 2GB DIMM's are in price (1GB DIMM's would have to be EOL before they use 2GB sticks = no choice).

velocityg4
Aug 15, 2011, 11:02 AM
Actually I wouldn't mind if they shipped them with no RAM at all or hard drive for that matter. That way you could save money buying it yourself.

What I am more interested in is that they put in the industry standard of RAM slots for the CPU socket. Standard single socket LGA 1366 server/workstation boards have 6 RAM slots so you can fill the slots and still have triple channel memory, dual socket boards have 12 slots. Rather than the 4/8 in the current Mac Pro so you have to chose between total memory or performance.

For quad channel hopefully this standard changes to 8/16 for single/dual sockets.

robbieduncan
Aug 15, 2011, 11:10 AM
No option for 0Gb :(

theSeb
Aug 15, 2011, 11:25 AM
Every computer sold should come with an addressed envelope to mail the stock RAM someplace for cash. They should make it a law (no envelope = $10,000 fine).

That's a bloody good idea. What am I going to do with 1 GB sticks otherwise?

Concorde Rules
Aug 15, 2011, 02:15 PM
That's a bloody good idea. What am I going to do with 1 GB sticks otherwise?

I used mine in a NAS that can take ECC ram.

Although I have a 2Gb stick spare now.

theSeb
Aug 15, 2011, 03:00 PM
I used mine in a NAS that can take ECC ram.

Although I have a 2Gb stick spare now.

Which NAS is that?

englishman
Aug 15, 2011, 03:01 PM
That's a bloody good idea. What am I going to do with 1 GB sticks otherwise?

Some say keep them until you sell and then put them back in and either reuse ram or sell?

nanofrog
Aug 15, 2011, 05:57 PM
That's a bloody good idea. What am I going to do with 1 GB sticks otherwise?
Hang on to them until the warranty is expired, as Apple won't transfer user upgrades when they replace a system.

theSeb
Aug 15, 2011, 06:48 PM
Hang on to them until the warranty is expired, as Apple won't transfer user upgrades when they replace a system.

The problem with me is that I'll put them in a "safe place" ... :rolleyes: :D

Concorde Rules
Aug 15, 2011, 07:16 PM
Which NAS is that?

Self built AMD box running UnRAID.

Nostromo
Aug 15, 2011, 10:46 PM
I really don't care about the minimum RAM. May Apple just drop those pathetic 1Gb and 2Gb sticks and put in two 4Gb sticks.

FluJunkie
Aug 16, 2011, 12:20 AM
Enough to boot, nothing more. I don't want to pay Apple to put in RAM I can put in myself.

jimfaster
Aug 16, 2011, 01:44 AM
hear what is said with the "Fill in the UR-up" idea, but the problem is to pay for 32gig sticks Fri concert in payment, even in places such as OWC. I thought 16 seemed a reasonable compromise on the cost per show, which is what I did. I may take a couple of years. Hopefully by then, the four suits, the price is better.

thirdkind
Aug 16, 2011, 08:52 AM
In theory, I agree with the idea of Apple including no memory by default. However, this assumes that leaving the RAM out will somehow lower the selling price. It won't.

If Apple configured the current quad core Nehalem with zero RAM by default, I bet the retail price would still be $2499. I might as well get a couple sticks out of the deal that I can trade in at OWC or save as backups in the event of system failure/warranty replacement.