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View Full Version : Final Cut Pro vs Sony Vegas, Adobe Premier, Avid, & All Others




elevenpower
May 7, 2005, 06:15 PM
I've been learning the in's and out's of Final Cut Pro HD. I must say I like it more than Premier. I have a friend that prefers Premier and another one that prefers Avid Xpress. I've aslo read that Sony Vegas is very good.
What do you guys think? I would like to hear how you guys think the major competitors in non-linear video editing softwares compare to each other. I know this is an Apple forum, but I would like to hear, for the most part, objective replys and comments.



Mr. Anderson
May 8, 2005, 12:30 AM
I used to use Premiere before FCP came out - and I bought FCP V1.0 and haven't looked back. Although, now Premiere isn't available for Mac anymore.

D

MacFan25863
May 8, 2005, 01:04 AM
Avid is better for real time effects, such as those used for live broadcasts, due to the dedicated render hardware you can buy (such as the Avid Mojo)

But for nonlinear editing, such as for films, FCP is my personal fav.

Espnetboy3
May 9, 2005, 01:00 AM
I started out with premiere and now trying to get really good with FCP 4hd. Avid is the truth though no questions asked.

milatchi
May 25, 2005, 03:54 PM
I've never used Avid, so no comment.
I have used Premiere and Final Cut Pro, and I have to say I like FCP way better.

puckhead193
May 25, 2005, 04:16 PM
You can download a free version of avid
http://www.avid.com/freeDV/index.asp

milatchi
May 25, 2005, 04:42 PM
I've tried it before but was not impressed. I think I'll wait to try a full version before I pass judgement on Avid.

mduser63
May 28, 2005, 01:30 AM
Having worked with Avid Media Composer a bit (the full blown professional Avid system), I like FCP's interface much better, but there are areas in which Avid is much more powerful. Premiere is not a bad editor at all, and was/is my choice for a Windows based NLE. That said, FCP has steadily been taking over professional market share for a reason. It actually competes well with Avid's pro systems, but it's priced VERY affordably.

I haven't used Vegas or Pinnacle's software extensively, so I don't have much of an opinion on them. It seems like Pinnacle Liquid Edition's integrated DVD authoring on the timeline could be handy at times, but I worry that it might get in the way sometimes too.

Espnetboy3
May 30, 2005, 12:58 AM
I think people are getting way to carried away with FCP. You all have to remember apple people will push their product. You wont walk into the apple store and buy your new computer and then they will say you want to edit get Premiere. Of course they will push there product(FCP). As for 90 percent of you editors out there they do the same exact thing and I believe that premiere has a much easier gui interface to getting aroudn to things and the image sequences work much better in premiere. I just feel that its like im a lexus for life man and another saying im a bmw for life. Ok also color correction, maybe its a bit stronger in fcp but most of you users on here arent doing this for there home movies , sons baseball games or even your indy films.

Ian Hines
May 30, 2005, 04:47 PM
Has anyone got Premiere working with Tiger, everything was ok with Panther then I "upgraded". Now I find that Premiere doesn't render correctly and leaves me with four stray pixels at every transition.

I'd set everything up to run premiere with clasic os9 but i think that means creating a partition and i don't know how (can you tell i'm new to the mac ? :-)

anyone help?

Espnetboy3
May 30, 2005, 05:00 PM
Ian this is very very weird because I use premiere also and ive noticed the stray pixels happen also. I don't have tiger installed yet. I just reinstalled premiere and it fixed it so far. Another thing is try to use quicktime 6.5.2 as opposed to 7 because there were some issues with 7.

mduser63
May 31, 2005, 06:47 PM
I think people are getting way to carried away with FCP. You all have to remember apple people will push their product. You wont walk into the apple store and buy your new computer and then they will say you want to edit get Premiere. Of course they will push there product(FCP). As for 90 percent of you editors out there they do the same exact thing and I believe that premiere has a much easier gui interface to getting aroudn to things and the image sequences work much better in premiere. I just feel that its like im a lexus for life man and another saying im a bmw for life. Ok also color correction, maybe its a bit stronger in fcp but most of you users on here arent doing this for there home movies , sons baseball games or even your indy films.


I've worked with Premiere much more than I've worked with Final Cut Pro (only had Final Cut Pro for 2 months now, as opposed to 3 years with Premiere), and there's no doubt about it, Final Cut Pro is overall the more capable system. Premiere is an excellent "prosumer" editing system, while Final Cut Pro is competive in the full-blown high-end professional marketplace. There have been big name feature films (Cold Mountain for example) edited with FCP. I don't think the same is true of Premiere. Don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against Premiere, and like I said it would definitely be my choice if I were still using Windows, but it just doesn't really compete with FCP for professional work.

I still think that for the average computer user that's just doing home movies and playing around with video editing, iMovie, Final Cut Express, Premiere Elements, Pinnacle Studio, etc, are perfectly fine, and in that case FCP (and even Premiere) are overkill.

JeDiBoYTJ
May 31, 2005, 10:02 PM
FCP takes the cake easily. its the whole reason I bought a mac.

Im never really used premiere before... but I did recently. and man did it feel CLUNKY compared to FCP. maybe I just didnt give it enough time, but I didnt really like it.

Adobe Premiere Pro and Final Cut Pro was basically made by the exact same engineers, so the guts of the two are nearly identical, but I think FCP is more intutitive than Premiere.

I have a friend who use Sony Vegas... and it seems like a cool program just for the fact that it can do 5.1 surround sound right in the program

Takeshi
Jan 13, 2006, 06:03 AM
I started off using Pinnicle, and quickly moved onto premier 6.5.
At work however i have a choice of Premier Pro, and Vegas 6. I find myself constantly using Vegas 6. Usually, in my field of work, video projects rear their heads at the last minute, and need to be completed promptly. As far as a fast, reliable chopping tool that can handle hours of hours of footage, with a good user interface, and user friendly tools, you can do alot worse than Vegas 6. Its often overlooked and people dont seem to know much about it, but its far superior to the Pinnicle systems, and handles HD remarkably well (on the right machine). It's definatly worth having a dable with it, if you can get your hands on a copy.
In some repects, it is not as superior to FCP and Premier, but both these programmes have their weeknesses too. I like to exploit the fact i have all these editing programmes at my disposal and flip between them all, using each one for its strengths.

ktakashi
Jan 17, 2006, 02:48 PM
At work however i have a choice of Premier Pro, and Vegas 6. I find myself constantly using Vegas 6. Usually, in my field of work, video projects rear their heads at the last minute, and need to be completed promptly. As far as a fast, reliable chopping tool that can handle hours of hours of footage, with a good user interface, and user friendly tools, you can do alot worse than Vegas 6. Its often overlooked and people dont seem to know much about it, but its far superior to the Pinnicle systems, and handles HD remarkably well (on the right machine). It's definatly worth having a dable with it, if you can get your hands on a copy.
In some repects, it is not as superior to FCP and Premier, but both these programmes have their weeknesses too. I like to exploit the fact i have all these editing programmes at my disposal and flip between them all, using each one for its strengths.

Hello, need some advice
on Vegas vs. Final Cut Studio.

For feature film editing, what does FCP do
so well or advantage over Vegas? ie, some things
only FCP can do?

I know FCP is just better and I would get it if I had the $
but I just want to know what I'm missing out if I use something else.

I got a copy of Vegas 6 which I am trying out now.
I need to upgrade my Windows hardware, costing $700.

As a film school student, I know Vegas should
be sufficient for short movies.
BUT, I also want to make 60-90 min. features on
video and I don't want to find out later that
Vegas has some limitations and that it doesn't do
"Professional quality" work...whatever that means
when people tell me that.

I don't plan to make any SF, special effects intensive
stuff or shoot HD.

thanks so much,

jaduffy108
Jan 17, 2006, 03:34 PM
I've been learning the in's and out's of Final Cut Pro HD. I must say I like it more than Premier. I have a friend that prefers Premier and another one that prefers Avid Xpress. I've aslo read that Sony Vegas is very good.
What do you guys think? I would like to hear how you guys think the major competitors in non-linear video editing softwares compare to each other. I know this is an Apple forum, but I would like to hear, for the most part, objective replys and comments.

>>>As a former Pro LA based tv/film editor..i would ask you...what do you want to do? Small home projects?...FCP is great. Low budget documentaries?... FCP great. I think Premier is sheer garbage. I did a documentary in India on it..and it was torture. Premier Pro ...i *hear* is better, but still falls significantly short of FCP. If you want to be a Professional editor in tv or film...AVID 1st, then add FCP to your skill set in case you end up working at Showtime, Playboy or the Discovery Channel. (To a large degree...once you learn one..the second app comes easy.) Law & Order ain't using FCP...get it? Sure there are exceptions like, Walter Murch did Cold Mountain on FCP, etc...and FCP can work fine..especially on story based films and docus. BUT...King Kong wasn't cut on FCP and if you try to cut a big multicam tv reality show on FCP...nightmare. FCP's media management vs. Avid's is quite poor. That will probably change at some point, but vaporware doesn't cut it.

I would also add this...if you are looking for a career...there are a kazillion "editors" now...people who equate knowing an application like FCP or Media Composer to actually BEING a skilled editor. Big mistake. The app is merely a tool and has absolutely NOTHING to do with being an editor. It is a quite oversaturated field now. If you are passionate about editing...cool...then follow your bliss, but i would suggest getting into 3d (Maya for film) , (3dsMax for games) ...OR... compositing (Shake)...much better career move. Bigger learning curve, but bigger payoff.

Good luck..

peace

3dit3r
Jan 17, 2006, 03:52 PM
>>>As a former Pro LA based tv/film editor..i would ask you...what do you want to do? Small home projects?...FCP is great. Low budget documentaries?... FCP great. I think Premier is sheer garbage. I did a documentary in India on it..and it was torture. Premier Pro ...i *hear* is better, but still falls significantly short of FCP. If you want to be a Professional editor in tv or film...AVID 1st, then add FCP to your skill set in case you end up working at Showtime, Playboy or the Discovery Channel. (To a large degree...once you learn one..the second app comes easy.) Law & Order ain't using FCP...get it? Sure there are exceptions like, Walter Murch did Cold Mountain on FCP, etc...and FCP can work fine..especially on story based films and docus. BUT...King Kong wasn't cut on FCP and if you try to cut a big multicam tv reality show on FCP...nightmare. FCP's media management vs. Avid's is quite poor. That will probably change at some point, but vaporware doesn't cut it.

I would also add this...if you are looking for a career...there are a kazillion "editors" now...people who equate knowing an application like FCP or Media Composer to actually BEING a skilled editor. Big mistake. The app is merely a tool and has absolutely NOTHING to do with being an editor. It is a quite oversaturated field now. If you are passionate about editing...cool...then follow your bliss, but i would suggest getting into 3d (Maya for film) , (3dsMax for games) ...OR... compositing (Shake)...much better career move. Bigger learning curve, but bigger payoff.

Good luck..

peace

This horse has been kicked to death. AVID first, FCP second is good advice for those wanting a career as an editor. However, AVID's stranglehold on the tv/film/doc/corporate,etc. industries is slowly loosening. IMO, although media management in FCP is atrocious compared to AVID, it is not a dealbreaker. I've cut PBS docs on FCP with very little problems.

I disagree about your outlook on a career in editing. Yes, the market is saturated, but the ones getting work are still experienced, skilled editors; not app-knowing newbies. you think editing is saturated? I would definitely assert that motion fx is even more saturated. It's the 'sexy' trade to know these days. Maybe it's just me, but the more competition the better. It pushes your skills further...

ChrisA
Jan 17, 2006, 04:05 PM
I've been learning the in's and out's of Final Cut Pro HD. I must say I like it more than Premier. I have a friend that prefers Premier and another one that prefers Avid Xpress. I've aslo read that Sony Vegas is very good.
What do you guys think? I would like to hear how you guys think the major competitors in non-linear video editing softwares compare to each other. I know this is an Apple forum, but I would like to hear, for the most part, objective replys and comments.


Have any of you seen "Cinelerra"? Don't judge a product by the size of the
marketing budget that pushes it. see http://heroinewarrior.com and follow the
"Cinelerra" link. Yes I know this is a Mac forum but people are talking about
Avid, Adobe and Vegas. Cinelerra can do just about anything you can thnk of
miltitrack editing and compositing and it can make use of a "render farm" so
render speed is limited only by your budget. Very steep learning curve
as it depends on a gazillion keyboard shortcuts.

I'll not argue that this is the best or not, just one more option. For people without
money Cinelerra may be the only option if you need multitrack editing and
compositing

It has been used for film school projects and some professional work in places
like Estern Europe where budgets are tighter then in the US.

jaduffy108
Jan 18, 2006, 02:04 AM
QUOTE=3dit3r]This horse has been kicked to death. AVID first, FCP second is good advice for those wanting a career as an editor. However, AVID's stranglehold on the tv/film/doc/corporate,etc. industries is slowly loosening.

>>>I agree..and applaud it. "Slowly" is oh-so-true. Quite slowly. I remember people saying FCP was taking over the industry in late 2000. It's 2006...yet in high-end tv and film, Avid is still King today. It woke Avid up from its arrogant slumber. They are actually giving mediocre customer service now..a huge improvement. :) And the new products ain't too shabby either. Personally, I hope FCP becomes such a great product... that it does indeed become the King of NLEs.

IMO, although media management in FCP is atrocious compared to AVID, it is not a dealbreaker.

>>>It's a dealbreaker if you're working on Fear Factor! Try syncing and grouping 22 cameras with TC drift in FCP...and managing that media...NO THANK YOU. Like I said..for PBS, Discovery Channel, Docs, etc...FCP is a fine choice.

3dit3r:
I've cut PBS docs on FCP with very little problems.

>>yep. Exactly what *I* originally said..and repeated above. FCP is cool for docs. There *are* things i prefer about FCP...but I would choose Media Composer everytime overall given the choice.

3dit3r:
I disagree about your outlook on a career in editing. Yes, the market is saturated

>>>Then we *don't* disagree...do we?

3dit3r:
, but the ones getting work are still experienced, skilled editors;

>>Exactly..and how is an *unexperienced* "editor" to get a gig?..uh... Porn??? Many established top notch FILM editors are going into tv now..to find work!...at big cuts in pay. Law & Order is a prime example. The old mentor relationships via assistant editing are long gone ..and THAT is a GREAT shame. Hey, i believe in following your passion..and if editing is where one's passion lies..then you will be successful. That creative passion will carry you through eventually. BUT....If you're not 100%... truly passionate about it..or don't have an Uncle in the Industry...VERY TOUGH ROAD in my opinion.

3dit3r:
not app-knowing newbies. you think editing is saturated? I would definitely assert that motion fx is even more saturated.

>>>We'll have to disagree. Plus..by motion fx..do you mean After Effects??? Not remotely true in my experience (3d film animation). And 3d gaming?...wow...massive demand. The "price of entry" is far greater than "editing" which shrinks the pool dramatically.

3dit3r:
It's the 'sexy' trade to know these days. Maybe it's just me, but the more competition the better. It pushes your skills further...[/QUOTE]

>>>i have nothing against competition. I agree, it's a nice kick in the a$$, but i believe my points remain. Next time you watch a FX heavy(or light) film or an animation feature like "Nemo"...watch the credits..count how many animators, digital matte artists, COMPOSITORS(!), etc, etc, etc it requires..working for two years(!)..to create ONE single 90 minute film. Then count the number of editors involved. Maybe it's just me....

peace

Arias21
Jan 18, 2006, 09:38 AM
My all time favorite goes to Leitch Velocity (http://www.leitch.com/custserv/products.nsf/$All/7519D6EADE704AC885256E670061039D?Open&Family=Post%20Production) (was DPS Velocity, then Leitch bought it out)

I found this program to have the best user interface and when I was using it hard, (5-6 years ago) real-time effects were better than any.

But since its proprietary software/hardware (breakout box) not many will go for it.

rjphoto
Jan 18, 2006, 09:55 AM
Hello, need some advice
on Vegas vs. Final Cut Studio.

For feature film editing, what does FCP do
so well or advantage over Vegas? ie, some things
only FCP can do?

I know FCP is just better and I would get it if I had the $
but I just want to know what I'm missing out if I use something else.

I got a copy of Vegas 6 which I am trying out now.
I need to upgrade my Windows hardware, costing $700.

As a film school student, I know Vegas should
be sufficient for short movies.
BUT, I also want to make 60-90 min. features on
video and I don't want to find out later that
Vegas has some limitations and that it doesn't do
"Professional quality" work...whatever that means
when people tell me that.

I don't plan to make any SF, special effects intensive
stuff or shoot HD.

thanks so much,

I'm not much help on the feature film editing end, but I can tell you to look into Apple's Education Discounts through your school.

FC Studio for $699

If that's still outside of your budget try Final Cut Express to get you feet wet at $149 (EDU Discount)

sebisworld
Jan 21, 2006, 12:04 PM
I myself use Final Cut a lot, and havent touched Avid, so I can't comment on that. I am currently forced to use Pinnacle at school, and while it's nice that it doesn't crash, it is sloooww and everything takes 10 times as long as it would in Final Cut. It can't do anything realtime.
Also, Vegas. I havent used it myself extensively, but I've worked with a guy who has. His speed was amazing, I've never seen anyone doing work that fast before. He knew the software by head and he could do work almost perfectly without even looking at the material (at least it seemed like he never watched it). He was doing mostly audio work, but he was convinced that the software was a very good video editor too. The only time I used it was to put sound on a timeline for a three hour DVD thing, with video already on the timeline. While the startup and save was ridiculously slow, working in the project itself was simply amazingly fast.

I'd go with Final Cut though.

zim
Jan 21, 2006, 04:39 PM
FCP. I have worked with Premier, Avid and Media 100 and nothing compares, in my opinion, to the ease of use and compatibility of FCP.

iris_failsafe
Jan 22, 2006, 02:48 PM
I think is in order to comment about the rumour that at NAB Apple will unveil Final Cut Extreme... Supposedly a 10K Turnkey system to compete with the big Avid systems.

So what do you guys think about Smoke, its been a while since I worked in it... Truth I got exasperated with it, rendered an image sequence and finished the editing in FCP 1 that I had at the time...

Nevertheless love the paint system...

Takeshi
Feb 2, 2006, 09:19 AM
I myself use Final Cut a lot, and havent touched Avid, so I can't comment on that. I am currently forced to use Pinnacle at school, and while it's nice that it doesn't crash, it is sloooww and everything takes 10 times as long as it would in Final Cut. It can't do anything realtime.
Also, Vegas. I havent used it myself extensively, but I've worked with a guy who has. His speed was amazing, I've never seen anyone doing work that fast before. He knew the software by head and he could do work almost perfectly without even looking at the material (at least it seemed like he never watched it). He was doing mostly audio work, but he was convinced that the software was a very good video editor too. The only time I used it was to put sound on a timeline for a three hour DVD thing, with video already on the timeline. While the startup and save was ridiculously slow, working in the project itself was simply amazingly fast.

I'd go with Final Cut though.

Vegas is super fast. But you have to get used to the media management system. But as long as you can keep your eye on everything, and make sure all your files are named correctly and efficiantly etc, then you can tear thru a project with great ease in vegas. I work for a well established video games developer, and even the audio dept use Vegas as part of their tools.
Give it a chance, and you shall see.
Im convinced by the time version 7/8 comes out, sony will have a real contender on their hands for best edit system, and may overshadow others.

Takeshi
Feb 2, 2006, 10:05 AM
Hello, need some advice
on Vegas vs. Final Cut Studio.

For feature film editing, what does FCP do
so well or advantage over Vegas? ie, some things
only FCP can do?

I know FCP is just better and I would get it if I had the $
but I just want to know what I'm missing out if I use something else.

I got a copy of Vegas 6 which I am trying out now.
I need to upgrade my Windows hardware, costing $700.

As a film school student, I know Vegas should
be sufficient for short movies.
BUT, I also want to make 60-90 min. features on
video and I don't want to find out later that
Vegas has some limitations and that it doesn't do
"Professional quality" work...whatever that means
when people tell me that.

I don't plan to make any SF, special effects intensive
stuff or shoot HD.

thanks so much,


"Professional quality" a term that is knocked about with the greatest of ease, but with little forethought.
In order to produce something that is truely of professional quality, you got to have the professional equipment to film it on in the first place (very very very expensive, and most people cant afford it, let alone film students) I take it your going to be using something along the lins of home video equipment to film, whether it be up market or not. With that equipment, you need a decent chopping tool, that has a system behind it that isnt going to hinder your creative outlet. i.e piss you off. If your starting out, to be honest with you, there isnt a huge amount of difference (some, not alot) between all the programmes being mentioned on this site. As you can see from the forum, everyone has their own particular preference depending on what they are using it for. You want to do features. Iv used FCP, Vegas, Pinnicle and Premier Pro for projects that last over 90 mins, and all but pinnicle handle them fine.
FCP gives you a more freedom over edits, than Vegas. If your attention to detail is paramount, then you will love FCP becasue you can get picky with cuts and transitions.
But screw it, leave getting anal about the systems for a while yet matey boy! just enjoy choppin and messing about. Like what the guy said further up the page, its not all about your tools, at this point, editing for you should be 70% heart 30%tech (to start off with at least anyway) Sooner or later you will find restrictions with whatever you are using and then you will be eager to move on and get to grips with programmes that suit you. Then the tech will come naturally. In my experience worrying to much about the hardware takes alot away from the creative enjoyment. Once i learned to not let it worry me to much, it all came together.
I have a friend that has landed an technical apprentership (mainly video editing) with BBC on the back of 2 projects which he filmed on an old AG455 SVHS, an edited on an ancient analoge system. He didnt even bother getting in a fuss about the different editing programmes available, and for what system they were used on, and how much it was all going to cost. He spent next to nothing, and used what he had available. Now hes getting paid to learn all the tech. Git.

zim
Feb 2, 2006, 10:27 AM
video editing? video editing is dead. you should look into muvee or check out the magic movie option in iMovie.

-just kidding :D

I agree with Takeshi, "professional quality" will be a product of 1. your creative ability, 2. input devices (camera etc) and then finally your editing skills but that does not mean a specific software title. I have seen some incredible works done purely in iMovie while the same with FCP and others. I know that first purchases can be a confusing decision but when it comes down to it it is how well you can conceive the project, film the project and then edit it. Everything else, software, hardware selection, etc is personal opinion, mine being FCP but I do sometimes use iMovie just for fun.

As for the comparative question of FCP and Vegas, I can't comment due to my limited knowledge of Vegas.

Texas04
Feb 2, 2006, 09:46 PM
What about Final Cut Express? For regular video, newscast (not live) and story editing it seems it could do the job (mac side)

simie
Feb 3, 2006, 01:06 AM
Free Software

HYPERENGINE-AV

http://www.arboretum.com/products/hyperengine-av/hav_main.html



ZS4 Video Editor

http://www.zs4.net/



iVideo

http://ivideo.sourceforge.net/


DDClip

http://www.softlab-nsk.com/ddclipro/freetable.html

virus1
Feb 3, 2006, 01:48 AM
Having worked with Avid Media Composer a bit (the full blown professional Avid system), I like FCP's interface much better, but there are areas in which Avid is much more powerful. Premiere is not a bad editor at all, and was/is my choice for a Windows based NLE. That said, FCP has steadily been taking over professional market share for a reason. It actually competes well with Avid's pro systems, but it's priced VERY affordably.

I haven't used Vegas or Pinnacle's software extensively, so I don't have much of an opinion on them.
Does it bug anyone when somone says EXACTLY what you were thinking? Good job, mduser63 :eek: :cool:

jaduffy108
Feb 3, 2006, 11:44 AM
I think is in order to comment about the rumour that at NAB Apple will unveil Final Cut Extreme... Supposedly a 10K Turnkey system to compete with the big Avid systems.

>>> Yes..and if Apple does release this "Extreme" version, it begs the question to those who feel FCP is superior to Avid now...why does Apple *need* this new system to compete with Avid? It clearly implies that FCP is inferior in some ***Pro*** areas. And ...it is.

So what do you guys think about Smoke, its been a while since I worked in it... Truth I got exasperated with it, rendered an image sequence and finished the editing in FCP 1 that I had at the time...

Nevertheless love the paint system...

>>> Smoke, Flame, fire, etc...HUGE $$$...and different animals altogether really.

peace

hbvideo
Feb 19, 2006, 11:29 AM
IMHO, Final cut is great if you first learned editing on Avid because you love the low price and similarities. I started editing commercials in non-linear back in 1992 on VideoF/X, a Mac-based precursor to the modern NLEs that got the job done. In the early 90s I test-drove Avid, and Media100 and chose Media 100 because of its ease of use. It's very Mac-like and was most similar to VideoF/X.

I got on the Final Cut bandwagon because of the price. I saw it as a good choice as an auxiliary editor to Media100. However I have found nothing easier to use than Media 100.

Media 100 has gone through some changes due to past marketing mistakes. Not unlike apple. Now owned by BorisFX, I believe they are on the right track. I've been using final cut for years then I downloaded the Media100sw trial version just curious to see if Media100 had a future. Media 100sw is AWESOME. It's a software only version of Media 100. I use Final Cut very seldom now. M100sw now has many layers of video and audio like FC but they play real time on a Mac G4. FC 4.5 crashes and burns regularly on my dual 500 G4.

Media 100sw costs only $399 no I/O yet though - forthcoming maybe NAB,
so the price is right. I I/O through my old Media 100 hardware. Somewhat convoluted process but way less pain than FC. It uses the apple aqua OSX interface-really works like a user-friendly mac program which is why I prefer macs. M100sw accepts lots of codecs and plays them realtime. It's way faster than before since it doesn't have to write each frame to hardware when rendering which is really great news when using BorisFX and grafitti for titles and spfx. You have to export QT movies of the final and import them in to the hardware version. I find myself exporting movies for encoding so it's necessary anyway...and some people never go to video tape so it may be a benefit to them.

Media 100sw doesn't try to be everything to everybody like final cut. It just helps you edit short-form pieces really fast without its GUI getting in the way. Media100sw is exactly the same as Media 100HD's software interface so it's a nice way to transition to the HD hardware when you're ready. I think it's really worth checking out.

MTDude
Feb 28, 2006, 05:37 PM
You can download a free version of avid
http://www.avid.com/freeDV/index.asp

This is a supreme waste of time. Avid makes better products than this free program... this freebie is garbage.

MTDude
Feb 28, 2006, 05:40 PM
I think people are getting way to carried away with FCP. You all have to remember apple people will push their product. You wont walk into the apple store and buy your new computer and then they will say you want to edit get Premiere. Of course they will push there product(FCP). As for 90 percent of you editors out there they do the same exact thing and I believe that premiere has a much easier gui interface to getting aroudn to things and the image sequences work much better in premiere. I just feel that its like im a lexus for life man and another saying im a bmw for life. Ok also color correction, maybe its a bit stronger in fcp but most of you users on here arent doing this for there home movies , sons baseball games or even your indy films.

I know of no professional editor in Hollywood or San Francisco that will say that Premiere is better than either one.
I have been using Avid for over 10 years and have just started using FCP. It is apples (no pun) and oranges.
Pure editing... Avid.
If I want a box that "does it all on a budget"... FCP

Hevs
May 26, 2006, 10:27 PM
maybe this isn't the right place to talk about this seeing as most of you are probably mac users.. buuut.. at the momemt I am working on a half hour doco and have been both a PC and a Mac, neither of which are mine or are readily accessable for the long periods of time needed to do anything constructive in NLE.

My sponsor is looking to put forward money for the purchasing of some equipment, inc a computer for my myself and he is not convinced that a mac is necesarily the way to go because of the expense.

Being as I not a computerhead I'm finding it a little tricky to compare FCP-HD(/FC Studio - should funds be available) and a G5.. to ..PremierePro2 and a PC in terms of price vs ease & quality. its the age old value for money question... any suggestions?

:-)

FF_productions
May 26, 2006, 11:26 PM
Make a new thread and somebody will answer your question soon.

interlaced
May 27, 2006, 12:06 AM
In no means am I a "pro" but I do hope to make it into my career. The first NLE program I learned was Premiere on an old Dell a few years back. We used that simultaneously in my video editing class with After Effects. The few chosen students that made exceptional projects were allowed to use FCP on the two Macs we had so it led me to believe that FCP was a more superior program. Premiere was very easy for me to use but I only learned the basics. I then learned a few things on Avid which I found to be an amazing program.

Now I'm a total Machead and into FCP. It's a great tool and very simple to use, IMO. Despite everyone saying it's all moving to FCP, I think that Avid is a greater program. FCP's just a lot cheaper (unless you can get Avid at the academic price of only $300) so I think more people, especially indie filmmakers are going that route.

*I apologize for the redundance if this has all been mentioned in previous posts.

LethalWolfe
May 27, 2006, 11:59 AM
maybe this isn't the right place to talk about this seeing as most of you are probably mac users.. buuut.. at the momemt I am working on a half hour doco and have been both a PC and a Mac, neither of which are mine or are readily accessable for the long periods of time needed to do anything constructive in NLE.

My sponsor is looking to put forward money for the purchasing of some equipment, inc a computer for my myself and he is not convinced that a mac is necesarily the way to go because of the expense.

Being as I not a computerhead I'm finding it a little tricky to compare FCP-HD(/FC Studio - should funds be available) and a G5.. to ..PremierePro2 and a PC in terms of price vs ease & quality. its the age old value for money question... any suggestions?

:-)

Final Cut Pro is no longer sold alone, you can only buy Final Cut Studio. I haven't used PP so I can't comment on it, but FCP and Avid are, by and large, the most used apps for things like movies, docs, TV shows, and commercials. Premiere's user base tends to be more corporate/industrial and event videography based.

And considering FCP offers nearly everything that Avid does at a fraction of the price that's one reason why FCP has, in the last few years, started displacing Avid so much.


Lethal

Mojo67821
May 27, 2006, 12:39 PM
I learned non-linear editing on a combo of both fcp and ppro. In my opinion they are pretty comparable. When premiere updated to it's "pro" versions it went a long way towards bridging the gap between fcp and itself. I like both for most of the professional editing I do. their affordability and ease of use have helped to fuel a revolution in independent film.

I work at a TV station and have used a 60,000 dollar AVID suite. For what they do, editing pretty simple commercials and promos, it's the biggest waste of money I have ever seen. A final cut system for less than 10,000 could do everything they are doing there. It's funny actually.

I can't stand AVID. I find the user interface to be incredibly UN-user friendly. Having to switch between modes on the timeline is the worst... I swear it was designed specifically to slow me down. AVID may have been the big daddy in the early days of NLE's, but a combo of fcp, ppro and after effects has made it obselete

solvs
May 27, 2006, 05:19 PM
its the age old value for money question... any suggestions?
Premier may be a little easier, and PCs can be cheaper, but that's not the best way to determine what you need. My advice would be a high end Intel Mac and FCP, with educational discount if available. I'm using an iMac with FCE and it's much better IMO than a custom made PC with any other video editor I've used. And I've used most of them. Not going to say everything is always easy and instantaneous, but there's reason so many of us like Macs.

2jaded2care
May 27, 2006, 09:17 PM
I've used Media 100 and Premiere (OS 9) in the past; I now use Avid Xpress Pro on a daily basis. (Ive been looking at Avid's new software-only Media Composer, though!)

My thinking on learning NLEs was that I wanted to concentrate on the one that would do me the most good if I had to go out and survive freelance or try to land a "real" permanent gig somewhere -- why not? That would be, as jaduffy108 and 3dit3r pointed out earlier, Avid. It probably has 70-80 percent of the pro market. (There are some things I don't like about the Avid interface, but I could say that about any of them.)

I do understand financial considerations, and FCP is definitely in the game. (Nevertheless, I'll repeat my pet peeve/mantra: What the hell is a "canvas"? It's "source" and "record"!)

Premiere and Vegas I don't think are considered serious challengers in the "pro" market... But then again, as someone pointed out, they are all just tools. You can use whatever the hell you want to (or have to), as long as it does the job you need it to do.

Mojo67821
May 29, 2006, 07:34 AM
I've used Media 100 and Premiere (OS 9) in the past; I now use Avid Xpress Pro on a daily basis. (Ive been looking at Avid's new software-only Media Composer, though!)

My thinking on learning NLEs was that I wanted to concentrate on the one that would do me the most good if I had to go out and survive freelance or try to land a "real" permanent gig somewhere -- why not? That would be, as jaduffy108 and 3dit3r pointed out earlier, Avid. It probably has 70-80 percent of the pro market. (There are some things I don't like about the Avid interface, but I could say that about any of them.)

I do understand financial considerations, and FCP is definitely in the game. (Nevertheless, I'll repeat my pet peeve/mantra: What the hell is a "canvas"? It's "source" and "record"!)

Premiere and Vegas I don't think are considered serious challengers in the "pro" market... But then again, as someone pointed out, they are all just tools. You can use whatever the hell you want to (or have to), as long as it does the job you need it to do.

I think that you can do pro material with Premiere. The latest version is pretty powerful, I dont think I've ever had to render anything to preview, which is an immense help.

I agree to a point what you are saying about having to know AVID to get into the pro market, but I think that is changing. I was looking into relocating to florida recently, and within an hour of looking on line I found 5 to 6 pro level jobs that required use of either fcp or ppro and after effects. I think the market is shifting and realizing that AVID is overpriced.

virus1
May 29, 2006, 07:39 AM
I've tried it before but was not impressed. I think I'll wait to try a full version before I pass judgement on Avid.
i got the exact same impression, except i am not interested in buying a full version of avid.

fcp all the way. premier used to be crap. now it is rotten crap.

tipdrill407
May 29, 2006, 10:31 AM
I've used by Final Cut Studio and Avid and they both have about the same amount of strengths and weaknesses. The User interface is similar in various aspects so the Final Cut vs. Avid thing is really just based on personal preference. If you're on a tight budget I would go with Final Cut Studio, because of it's incredible value, For just over a $1000 you get all the tools you need for professional video editing. A similar avid system costs about $1800.

odedia
May 29, 2006, 11:32 AM
I used to work with Sony Vegas back when it was still soundforge vegas, and I must say that it is one excellent piece of software. You can learn to edit just by playing with the system, everything is just so easy and the real-time rendering is great as well. Features like dynamic RT that are only now avaliabe with FCP 5 were avaliable in Vegas since I can remember it.

It's really nice to have the ability to boot into windows now on your mac and try out new software.

Counterfit
May 29, 2006, 01:50 PM
I think people are getting way to carried away with FCP. You all have to remember apple people will push their product. You wont walk into the apple store and buy your new computer and then they will say you want to edit get Premiere. Of course they will push there product(FCP).
I think it helps that Adobe doesn't even make Premiere for the Mac anymore. :rolleyes:

Mojo67821
May 29, 2006, 06:49 PM
I think it helps that Adobe doesn't even make Premiere for the Mac anymore. :rolleyes:

They actually do... or at least will be. From what I understand they're bringing Premiere Pro back to Mac's.

Counterfit
May 29, 2006, 07:47 PM
They actually do... or at least will be. From what I understand they're bringing Premiere Pro back to Mac's.
No, they don't currently, and unless you have a source for "will be", it's a bunch of bull. :p

corywoolf
May 29, 2006, 08:16 PM
I used to use Premiere before FCP came out - and I bought FCP V1.0 and haven't looked back. Although, now Premiere isn't available for Mac anymore.

D

Premiere will be available for the mac in the next version of the Adobe Production Suite (due sometime in early '07), that will also include all the other Adobe video apps.

zim
May 31, 2006, 10:27 AM
No, they don't currently, and unless you have a source for "will be", it's a bunch of bull. :p

Adobe will be returning with Premiere. I posted info on the new Premiere and CS3 info a while back. The info came from an Adobe survey where they revealed their entire line up for CS3. Sure, there is a possibility that the info in the survey was false but I think based on other findings that I have read, Premier is heading back this way... regardless of it's come back, I am a FCP user and have no plans on changing that anytime soon. I also question as to how many FCP users who were once Premier users would be willing to switch back. Software is a matter of preference, it does not define the art.

Mojo67821
May 31, 2006, 06:35 PM
Premiere will be available for the mac in the next version of the Adobe Production Suite (due sometime in early '07), that will also include all the other Adobe video apps.

Thank you. I'm not sure why Counterfit felt the need to flame me, but obviously what I heard wasn't a "bunch of bull".

Now that I think about it, I think I heard it from someone who works at my local apple store... not the most reliable source I know, but that at least means he was told it by someone official.

Anyways, I can't see myself switching. I'm not in love with either PPRo of FC enough to have a preference... my preference depends on which operating system is more readily available to me. And since I just switched to Mac, FC is the way I"m going to go.

Bakey
Jun 1, 2006, 05:41 AM
Thank you. I'm not sure why Counterfit felt the need to flame me, but obviously what I heard wasn't a "bunch of bull".

Now that I think about it, I think I heard it from someone who works at my local apple store... not the most reliable source I know, but that at least means he was told it by someone official.

... Riiiggghhttttttttttt! Errrr.... okey dokey Don!!! Sure it means he was told by someone official - or failing that he also read it some months ago on one of the many rumors sites! Such as this one... :rolleyes:

Somehow I seriously, seriously doubt Adobe Sys. will be launching Premiere Pro on Mac! C'mon it's be 'a while' since they dropped Premiere from their Mac line-up and no doubt p!ssed off quite a number of Mac Premiere users who no doubt have either made the switch to another app or currently evaluating the likes of Avid, Final Cut, etc.

Why on earth would a Mac Premiere user put their faith into the rumor that Adobe just might be releasing that new version for Mac when there's been no concrete proof of such an event actually 'for definite' happening?!?

As for the rest of the Adobe Video Collection making its way to Mac, trust me forget it! The likes of Encore DVD are simply atrocious, there's a couple of nice bits within it that I'd like to see brought over into DVDSP; but seriously it's lousy. [I've used it since v1.0 thru 1.5 to 2.0 -- buggy is an understatement!]

Maybe Audition would be a nice app to have across, but then again there's already Soundtrack Pro!!!

Hey ho... ;)

Mojo67821
Jun 1, 2006, 12:32 PM
... Riiiggghhttttttttttt! Errrr.... okey dokey Don!!! Sure it means he was told by someone official - or failing that he also read it some months ago on one of the many rumors sites! Such as this one... :rolleyes:

Somehow I seriously, seriously doubt Adobe Sys. will be launching Premiere Pro on Mac! C'mon it's be 'a while' since they dropped Premiere from their Mac line-up and no doubt p!ssed off quite a number of Mac Premiere users who no doubt have either made the switch to another app or currently evaluating the likes of Avid, Final Cut, etc.

Why on earth would a Mac Premiere user put their faith into the rumor that Adobe just might be releasing that new version for Mac when there's been no concrete proof of such an event actually 'for definite' happening?!?

Hey ho... ;)

Not sure why you're so ridiculously hostile over such a benign topic, but I'm pretty confident that it's going to happen.

Can we get back on topic now?

dke211
Jun 7, 2006, 10:58 AM
I use vegas alot and have only played with FC a very little bit, having said that
a friend of mine and my self did a presentation of FCP and vegas side by side for a professional group.
I made some observations while watching my friend show off FCP

1. Vegas has far* better built in audio abilities - this is not surprizing as it started out its life as an audio processing program (sound forge)

2. Vegas has far* better built in compositing than FC, however since FC is usually used in conjunction with something like after effects, this is not that great of an advantage.

3.Vegas seems to take "its all here" as opposed to "One part of a suite" approach. There are advantages to both.

4. Vegas/pc is probably going to be cheaper to get into as opposed to FCP/mac because PC is commodity hardware where mac is propriatary.

5. Sony has purchased Vegas from sonic foundry and they are pouring a LOT of time and money into it.

My conclusions:

1. If you have an investment in hardware already, I cant see buying new hardware to use eather FC or Vegas.

2. Lots more people are using FC then Vegas at the moment, that may justify switching - but only to be compatable on a project.

3. Given the same quality source, the finished product will depend more on the editors than the programs

4. Vegas has a faster work flow because its all in one spot and integrated, that may come at the price of some flexability.


Thats my 2 cents worth

Bakey
Jun 7, 2006, 02:54 PM
Not sure why you're so ridiculously hostile over such a benign topic, but I'm pretty confident that it's going to happen.

Can we get back on topic now?

Hostile! Me? No, no, no!! Although so unconvinced am I of it never re-appearing [although in the case of Premiere Pro it would technically be appearing for the first time on Mac] I'll buy you a copy myself should it do so!! Seriously, you can hold me to that!!!

Anyway yeah sure, let's get back on topic -- although to be fair having re-read the thread I'd say the question/query has been pretty much answered, ie. each and every NLE is capable [and not so capable] in many of the intended arenas. But, a lot of it rests at the feet of the editor rather than editing application - and by this I mean to try and break free of the confines of the application at hand and not to be/feel restricted by it. This one golden nugget was the key point learnt in my Uni days and I try my hardest to stick to it [well, most of the time at least].

Right, I'm off... :D

jaysmith
Jun 8, 2006, 06:45 PM
I think people are getting way to carried away with FCP. You all have to remember apple people will push their product. You wont walk into the apple store and buy your new computer and then they will say you want to edit get Premiere. Of course they will push there product(FCP). As for 90 percent of you editors out there they do the same exact thing and I believe that premiere has a much easier gui interface to getting aroudn to things and the image sequences work much better in premiere. I just feel that its like im a lexus for life man and another saying im a bmw for life. Ok also color correction, maybe its a bit stronger in fcp but most of you users on here arent doing this for there home movies , sons baseball games or even your indy films.
fcp is one of the few high-end nle's available for mac, so of course its going to be preferred by mac users. unless you want to go back a few years in technology and use premiere 6.5, then fcp is the standard.

i've found in the last few years that colour corrention is key to making the final project better, so i like the fact that fcp lets me tinker in a proffessional way. new users may not know all the bells and whistles when they first start out, but its nice to know that the features are all there if you need them.

that being said, fcp is my favourite nle out today.

Bakey
Jun 9, 2006, 01:33 AM
Hostile! Me? No, no, no!! Although so convinced am I of it never re-appearing [although in the case of Premiere Pro it would technically be appearing for the first time on Mac] I'll buy you a copy myself should it do so!! Seriously, you can hold me to that!!!

Anyway yeah sure, let's get back on topic -- although to be fair having re-read the thread I'd say the question/query has been pretty much answered, ie. each and every NLE is capable [and not so capable] in many of the intended arenas. But, a lot of it rests at the feet of the editor rather than editing application - and by this I mean to try and break free of the confines of the application at hand and not to be/feel restricted by it. This one golden nugget was the key point learnt in my Uni days and I try my hardest to stick to it [well, most of the time at least].

Right, I'm off... :D

Edit :: Removed the colloquial double-negative!!

Cross
Jul 7, 2006, 04:40 PM
Having worked with Premiere (I hated it), Vegas Video and now FCP5 I must say Vegas is my Fav.

I am having so much trouble just getting the ease of use down with FCP comapred to Vegas. I love the flag features, editing time lines. Vegas is just straight forward, easy to use and I love it.

FCP is powerful but coming from Vegas 6 to FCP5 is a nightmare I can not even get the simplest things to work (Which I am making a thread on here shortly).

Vegas Video is the ONLY reason I would very run Windows on a Mac or buy a Windows Desktop again. FCP is really trying my patenice but then Being ADHD thats not all that hard to do at times lol.

I am sure once I understand the functions I want to do in FCP I will really enjoy it but until then I am just sitting here wishing Vegas ran on OS X.

Thomas Veil
Jul 8, 2006, 10:57 AM
This horse has been kicked to death. AVID first, FCP second is good advice for those wanting a career as an editor.BUT....If you're not 100%... truly passionate about it..or don't have an Uncle in the Industry...VERY TOUGH ROAD in my opinion.I'll endorse that. I "only" work in the professional field (cable, industrial, etc.), but yes, Avid is still first and FCP a close second. And yup, it's a really tough field to get into, and tough to advance in.

Now, this is just my opinion, but despite Avid having so much of the market, it's gotta be one of the worst editing programs on the market from an ease-of-use standpoint. Big learning curve, clunky interface, non-intuitive controls....

My personal favorite -- though it's a way-distant runner-up -- is Media 100. It's easy to learn, it's intuitive, and the interface is very well-integrated into OS X -- yes, even better than FCP itself.

At one point, Media 100 actually had a bigger install base than Avid, but Avid made some advances that grabbed ahold of the broadcast industry, and when that happened, it was all over for Media 100. It's still around, still terrific software (and hardware), but it'll never enjoy the position it once had.

rand()
Jul 8, 2006, 09:38 PM
Now, this is just my opinion, but despite Avid having so much of the market, it's gotta be one of the worst editing programs on the market from an ease-of-use standpoint. Big learning curve, clunky interface, non-intuitive controls....

My personal favorite -- though it's a way-distant runner-up -- is Media 100. It's easy to learn, it's intuitive, and the interface is very well-integrated into OS X -- yes, even better than FCP itself.

I think that from a learning standpoint, it is *the best* to learn on an Avid first - primarily for this reason. Once you learn and develop skills in the Avid know-your-damn-keyboard workflow, your workflow speed triples. It's incredible - and you can apply this learned skill subsequently to any other NLE out there.

On top of that, the Avid 'metaphor' is much closer to that of old-style film splice editing (like on a Moviola or Steinbeck) as opposed to the newer NLE's, which have progressed and extended the metaphor a bit further.

Media100 is a great system. I don't know of the integration you mentioned is exactly what I'd call a strong suit. But it is intuitive - to a point. Eventually (especially on the older, A-B only style versions) you run into limitations that can greatly hinder your workflow unless you learn secondary tools like AE. Of course, this could be said for Avid as well. But the visual quality on M100 is fantastic.

FCP is kind of like crack in the sense that if you want to, you probably *can* get away with doing almost anything within the program. It edits rather well. It color corrects nicely. The audio is... well, there at least, and with some tenacity, you can work on it. And if you really want, you can do lots of keyframing, titles, and composite/graphics, as long as you're not overly concerned with perfect-pixel-placement.

But in the real world, you're much more likely to edit in Avid or FCP, then run your compositing in AE/Shake/[Insert Compositor Of Choice Program], then run your audio into ProTools or Logic, and finally color correct on a giant pro rig that's all spec'd out for that.

So there's my 2. Edit on!

-rand()

1baseball1
Jul 12, 2007, 09:22 PM
Yeah hey im trying to decide what editing program to get can people please help me and tell me witch is wayyyyy better and i should get right now i have a windows computer so if i get fianlt cut pro i need a mac so what should i get a mac and final cut pro or should i get a program for xp i want the best... also i have 2 questions for if you recomend me getting FCP 1. can i send video files from FCP on my mac to my PC Windows cpu and 2. where can i get the cheapest mac that can run FCP ( laptop mac please )

Randor
Jun 26, 2008, 06:45 AM
I used Premiere for years, then was formally taught Avid at broadcasting school, then bought my Mac Pro and FCP 6 Suite in January and taught myself that. Of the three I would choose FCP, Premiere and then Avid in that order.

One of the things we all have to remember is that it is very difficult to be objective when comparing one product with another. This is especially true if we have been using the first product for years. Once we learn how to do something well enough to perform the keyboard sequence without even thinking about it, it becomes very difficult to have to learn a different sequence that performs the same function on the new product.

I found it very difficult to learn Avid after using Premiere for so many years. The editing process was interrupted so many times having to stop myself from using one keyboard sequence and using the new one. It was very frustrating. However, others who were learning Avid as their first NLE system seemed to pick it up a little quicker. This was partially because they didn't have to "unlearn" the old techniques.

On the surface it is easy to dismiss one product as "stupid" or "un-intuitive" because the techniques used seem awkward. We must realize that each product is approaching the same function from a different angle.

Knowing all three products relatively well, if I were asked to pick one off the shelf, it would definitely be FCP.

Lunja
Jun 26, 2008, 07:30 AM
Can't comment on Vegas, but I've used Avid XPress and Pinnacle Liquid whilst at University, and own FCP on my home setup, whilst using Premier Pro at work.

Personally, of Avid and Liquid, I always prefered Liquid. Whilst I only used them for fairly light projects, I always got annoyed by the two different timeline settings (because I was a n00b and was always getting them mixed up). Liquid was prettier to look at IMO, and I found it more comfortable to learn with it's more graphical interface.

Of the two I use now, I actually prefer Premiere, although the lack of dip-to-colour dissolve is a pet peeve. I edit corporate video, so colour flashes are used often to make transitions. In FCP I can set a dip-to-colour over the cut, change the colour, and you're on to the next edit. In Premiere, I have to create a colour matte, name it, drag it from the bin to the timeline, trim it, drop on a cross dissolve at the top and tail, and then trim those.

Otherwise, I prefer Premiere to work with day-to-day. Yes it crashes, but with a Matrox RTX100 card on board and Magic Bullet and Misfire post effects, it does everything I could want it to. I find the timeline easier to work with, and I prefer the interface.

But that's my 2 pence :)

Airstream
Jul 19, 2008, 08:51 PM
If you're editing for yourself, it really doesn't matter which software or hardware you choose. Try them out and use the one that you feel comfortable with and that you can afford. Much can be done with any one of them. But if you are editing for a client, it really does matter what platform you are on. That's really why Avid owns the market in post houses in major markets. I'm a producer, and I am incredibly frustrated by working with an editor who uses software that slows us down. I've sat through edits using FCP where I've had to wait for rendering every time I wanted to see the spot. I've suffered through PP edits where it took a frustratingly long time to make fine adjustments of edit points. That doesn't happen in an Avid suite with an experienced editor. Productivity matters to me. My productivity as well as the editor's. I want to be able to change things without having to go have a cup of coffee while the machine does its thing or while the editor finds the media. Editors who work on Avids seem to be able to respond to changes, on other platforms, it seems to be harder -- slower. Is it the editor? Maybe. But I can only judge by what I've seen in the room. FCP has been slower, and PP has been painful. The Avid guys charge more money, but they don't waste my time.

That being said, I don't expect to do effects and compositing in the edit suite. I expect to select shots and tell stories there. There are better platforms for that.

So if you are going to make your own movies, do whatever you want, but if you are going to make a career as an editor, think hard about what you are asking of your clients. The translation from thought to playback needs to be as close to instant as you can get it. i work with an editor (who uses an Avid) who is often ready to show me a change in a cut before my client and I get done talking about it. Can you do that? If not, look at what you're doing and figure out why.

David

bimmzy
Jul 20, 2008, 08:03 AM
I use FCP, Avid (virtually all its flavors), and Quantel's SQ Edit.

they all have one overriding thing in common... they are all flaky! :mad:

FCP i think is a fantastic compositing tool, Avid great for cutting and fiddling, and Quantel, for banging it out at high speed.

they all have different mind sets though. Avid being the most quirky, as SQ Edit and FCP behave in surprisingly similar ways.
:D

joemarvelly
Dec 18, 2008, 07:21 PM
Quite frankly if you want a sensible, stress free program that can do everything and more than what Final Cut Pro can do, then use Vegas.

Personally I can't stand Final Cut. You have to RENDER EVERY SINGLE CLIP EVERY TIME YOU ALTER IT IN THE SLIGHTEST! I HATE THAT! When you are searching for that vital frame or just moving the clip and it has effects on it the clip has to be rerendered over and over again! This affects you on a minute to minute basis, and the larger the clip, the longer it takes to render! It just stresses me out to the point where I am not enjoying editting. In Vegas there's none of that nonsense, making it far quicker to edit with less stress involved, and you can just enjoy editting! Imagine that!

This is only one example of what annoys me about the program, but seriously there are far more that I am too tired to go into. Huge factors that affect you every minute that aren't even hinted at in Vegas.

Well my point is:
DON'T BUY FINAL CUT PRO (ANY VERSION), SONY VEGAS 7.0 (I don't have version 8 but I bet it's amazing) ****** ALL OVER IT

bigbossbmb
Dec 19, 2008, 01:12 PM
Personally I can't stand Final Cut. You have to RENDER EVERY SINGLE CLIP EVERY TIME YOU ALTER IT IN THE SLIGHTEST! I HATE THAT!

Please take your FUD and dig up dead threads elsewhere...

LethalWolfe
Dec 19, 2008, 02:41 PM
Please setup your FCP project correctly and dig up dead threads elsewhere...
fixed that for you. ;)


Lethal

bigbossbmb
Dec 19, 2008, 07:25 PM
lol that is more accurate....

I don't know why I've been in a less forgiving mood lately. Although, I did see a license plate last week that read "RTFM PLS". Definitely cracked a smile.

LethalWolfe
Dec 19, 2008, 09:36 PM
lol that is more accurate....

I don't know why I've been in a less forgiving mood lately. Although, I did see a license plate last week that read "RTFM PLS". Definitely cracked a smile.
I saw a BMW w/a plate that was something like "U NV ME" and I wanted to key the car on general principle.


Lethal

bimmzy
Dec 21, 2008, 09:21 AM
AVID and FCP are the big boys.
They tend to be popular with broadcasters and film production houses. Programme makers are a conservative bunch so they hanging on to what they know best, which means Avid is it's various flavours.

FCP is making inroads, and the worlds biggest production house (BBC) is now shunting over to FCP, albeit chaotically. as it does essentially what Avid can do, for allot less money.

Both systems have their issues though. I started working with Avid when is ran on a Mac II, and was highly experimental. It's now a very sophisticated beast indeed. So too is the young upstart FCP, and both have a inclination for crashing. :mad:

Which is better?
well i dunno. :confused:
People like analogies, and often compare the two systems with cars. Why this is i do not know, as fundamentally they are about producing commodities, i.e TV programmes and films. Both systems are essential to know because that's what the industry demands.

Despite editing on Avid for the last 15 years, and though temperamental, my personal preference is FCP because it makes the WHOLE production process less hassle by sticking to one logic set. At Avid they seam to make it up as they go along, and Unity?!!!..... the less said the better.

As interments of sweat, toil and torture, Avid is nice and FCP is kinder. :D

N.B
On Rendering...
Both need rendering on output, so the realtime effects are 'a much of a muchness' if you configure both systems properly......... but when I walk away for 30++ minutes during rendering for the finish and final lock,
I know on my return with a cuppa in hand that FCP will still be standing. :p