Athlon X2 Declared "BEST CPU IN THE WORLD"

[jiggie2g]

The Reviews are in Athlon X2 "BEST CPU EVER"

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=23110

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=23116

Atleast 20 different sites are all saying the samething that the Athlon X2 is the best all around performing CPU they have ever tested.

[Tech^salvager]

Awesome reviews and read
Thanks jiggie2g

[minimax]

Tom's Hardware calls it "The King". Amazing benchmarks, same clockspeed as it's fastest massproduced single-core processor and LESS powerconsumption compared to more for the Pentium D.

'AMD's Dual Core Athlon 64 X2 Strikes Hard' (http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20050509/index.html)

Let's hope the IBM G5 Dualcore will also deliver speeds up to 2.5 GHz upon introduction.

[jadam]

Crap, I really wanted a new powermac, but for the price of a 4400+ X2, a new mobo, and some ram, I can get much better performance for almost 1/3 the cost =(

[MongoTheGeek]

Just wait til WWDC. I can feel it in my teeth...

It'll be sweet.

[jiggie2g]

Crap, I really wanted a new powermac, but for the price of a 4400+ X2, a new mobo, and some ram, I can get much better performance for almost 1/3 the cost =(


I'm with you jadam, It's a much better value. AMD just can't be beat right now, they are teaching IBM and Intel how it's done. I will be getting a 4400+ myself as soon as they are avaliable(Oct-Nov '05). Can't wait to see the OC numbers on those. some of people are already hitting 3.0ghz on the new Venice and San Diego cores. Imagine dual 3.0ghz Athlon X2 :eek:

I just ordered a Venice core Athlon 64 3000+(expecting it today), to go with my DFI Lanparty UT NF4 Ultra-D that has been sitting on my shelf for over a month. I will OC it up to 2.6-2.8ghz ...not bad for a $149 CPU :D .

Just wait til WWDC. I can feel it in my teeth...

It'll be sweet.


Why do you people still insist Jobs is going to put out a DC PowerMac right after Apple just updated thier entire line(except ibook). If by some miracle Apple was going to put a Dual Dual PM G5 it would cost more then 90% of the people here can afford. atleast $3299...with a crappy Radeon 9650..lol


Update: Well seems someone actually did Overclock an X2 4800+ ...the crazy boys over at Amdzone hit 2.7ghz per core on stock Voltage, they said it was pretty easy to OC and that 3.0ghz seemed very possible :eek:

http://www.amdzone.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=124&page=4

[~Shard~]

Hats off to you AMD you deserve it! An amazing Engineering feat - way to teach Intel and IBM a lesson. After all, competition makes everyone stronger. :cool:

[PlaceofDis]

Hats off to you AMD you deserve it! An amazing Engineering feat - way to teach Intel and IBM a lesson. After all, competition makes everyone stronger. :cool:

yeah, good job AMD! lets see what IBM has out there though (hopefully something good) but still doesnt run the worlds best OS ;)

[brap]

Tom raves about 'em, doesn't he... and the numbers are mind-blowing.

Good job there's finally an nForce4-shaped package in the mail for me tomorrow :D

[~Shard~]

yeah, good job AMD! lets see what IBM has out there though (hopefully something good) but still doesnt run the worlds best OS ;)

Yah, AMD may have the best CPU, but throw it in a Windows box and it loses some of its appeal if you ask me. ;) I'll take OS X any day.

For me, true performance is measured by the stability and user-friendliness of the OS, how fun the system is to use, the power of the applications (i.e. iLife), and how quickly, efficiently and effortlessly I can do my work. Some people can brag all they want about clock cycles, MHz, FSB speeds and all that, but to me, it isn't as relavant when talking about true performance. :cool:

[dubbz]

Some people can brag all they want about clock cycles, MHz, FSB speeds and all that, but to me, it isn't as relavant when talking about true performance. :cool:

Sure, but if IBM/Apple had the fastest CPU I'm sure you'd be up for some bragging ;)

[noel4r]

Yah, AMD may have the best CPU, but throw it in a Windows box and it loses some of its appeal if you ask me. ;) I'll take OS X any day.

I agree with you, but imagine how much faster OS X would run w/ one of these.

[Lacero]

Now if only Apple would produce OSX Tiger for AMD chips. OR better yet, sell Macintoshes with AMD chips, instead of licensing OSX to PC manufacturers.

[~Shard~]

Sure, but if IBM/Apple had the fastest CPU I'm sure you'd be up for some bragging ;)

Actually I'm not a Mac Zealot, so I probably wouldn't brag too much, although I know many people on this Forum who would do exactly what you just said. ;) Also, personally, I'm not a power user, and don't need a system that powerful, so it isn't as big a deal to me as it might be to others...

[~Shard~]

I agree with you, but imagine how much faster OS X would run w/ one of these.

It would run faster, no question, but the amount of RAM in the machine would probably have a greater impact on the performance of the OS than the clock speed.

[Jimong5]

Now if only Apple would produce OSX Tiger for AMD chips. OR better yet, sell Macintoshes with AMD chips, instead of licensing OSX to PC manufacturers.

I think they should try to get AMD to produce a PPC variant. that way there's no complex migrations, and Apple could get some serious speed going.

[jadam]

I do lots of scientific computing, so speed matters a lot for me.

[~Shard~]

With this news coming out, it's somewhat surprising that the next versions of the XBox, GameCube and the PS3 all are utilizing IBM chips. Wonder if they're going to drop IBM and try going with AMD instead... ;)

[Mr. Anderson]

I just hope this puts some more pressure on Apple and IBM to get the dual core G5s out to market soon...

D

[homerjward]

wow--sounds pretty sweet. if i ever get around to (saving the $ and) building a cheap pc, im definitely gonna get the cheapest one of those :eek: jadam did the guy in your 'tar live?!

[jadam]

e :eek: jadam did the guy in your 'tar live?!


Yeah, it was an accident with a construction worker, I believe he survived after going to the hospital.

[wrc fan]

I will be getting a 4400+ myself as soon as they are avaliable(Oct-Nov '05).

So wait... these aren't really shipping yet? It's just a paper launch then? Hmm.. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple updated the G5 again by November.

[~Shard~]

So wait... these aren't really shipping yet? It's just a paper launch then? Hmm.. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple updated the G5 again by November.

3 GHz baby. It's about time. :cool:

[BornAgainMac]

"BEST CPU IN THE WORLD".

Shhhhh. IBM is taking a nap.

[freiheit]

Now if only Apple would produce OSX Tiger for AMD chips. OR better yet, sell Macintoshes with AMD chips, instead of licensing OSX to PC manufacturers.

I'd be totally stoked to see an Apple Mac based around an Athlon 64 X2. Would make for quite a nice replacement for my dual G4. It's true that MacOSX running on x86/AMD64 hardware doesn't have to mean licensing the OS out to PC makers (though I don't think that would actually be a bad thing either) -- Apple can make their own x86-based systems.

[jiggie2g]

So wait... these aren't really shipping yet? It's just a paper launch then? Hmm.. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple updated the G5 again by November.

Well I just got my Venice core Athlon 64 3000+(1.8ghz) today hoping to OC it to atleast 2.6ghz...but crossing my fingers for 2.8ghz, expecting my Leadtek 6600GT PCIe friday. My new rig will be complete. It will hold me over till fall when the X2's are out. Plus ATI + Nvidia will bring thier next gen 24 pipeline cards I predict these will push over 10 Billion Texels and 1 mill Triangles a sec. :eek:


No not yet but , Unless Apple releases a DC G5 + PCIe it won't matter. I really see no real need for a Quad core Machine. Apple will most likely make a single socket DC PowerMac G5 w/ PCIe and sell it at a lower price. Which would be the smart chice , no need to make a Powermac almost no one can afford.

1 socket DC 2ghz G5
PCIe X700Pro 128MB GDDR3
512 DDR Ram
160GB HD
Tiger + iLife '05
for $1999 would be an excellent value.


Fact of the matter is most Geeks will just buy the 4400+ like me for the 1MB L2 cache and OC it up to like 2.8ghz from it's stock 2.2ghz.

4400+ = Dual FX-51 (dual 2.2ghz 1MB L2)$587
4800+ = Dual FX-53 (dual 2.4ghz 1MB L2)$1001....Easy Choice.

OC'd 4400+ = Dual FX-55(2.6ghz) or Dual FX-57(2.8ghz) :D ...I can't wait.

Dammit this PC stuff is getting expensive I will soon have to get an Antec TruePower II 550W.

[~Shard~]

Dammit this PC stuff is getting expensive I will soon have to get an Antec TruePower II 550W.

But that can't be, I have always heard that PCs are far cheaper than Macs.... :p ;)

[jiggie2g]

But that can't be, I have always heard that PCs are far cheaper than Macs.... :p ;)


Well when u compare the hardware to the overpriced stuff apple will sell you.
When I see a Radeon 9650 and 512MB ram in a $2699 machine i don't know weather i should laugh or cry. For Nearly $3K I better get 2 Nvidia Geforce 6800GT cards in SLI and a 2x 250GB SATA RAID setup with an AMD Athlon FX-55, don't forget 1GB ram.

I'm not rich so I can't afford a PowerMac and i don't do iMacs anymore. My setup is great , Fast future proof in the end cost me $1300 w/17in LCD

I put together an Athlon XP-M machine back in Dec for about $650. now tht it's time to get an upgrade i don't have to fork out $2K for a new desktop.

AMD Athlon 64 3000+(Venice) $149
DFI Lanparty UT NF4 Ultra-D (SLI Modded) $130
Leadtek Geforce 6600GT 128MB GDDR3 $169
Total Cost of Upgrade $448............some of the Venice CPUs have been reported to hit 3.0ghz on AIR. :eek:

Sorry but no Mac is gonna give me that kind of value. So for less then the price of a Mac Mini i've made my PC 4x faster then a Mac mini.

[PlaceofDis]

Sorry but no Mac is gonna give me that kind of value. So for less then the price of a Mac Mini i've made my PC 4x faster then a Mac mini.

yeah but you have to use Windows (or Linux) the point being that you dont get the benefit of OS X with that machine, which is the best part about using a Mac in the first place. and its not like you can compare x86 hardware to PowerPC hardware spec to spec because they are different platforms that work in different ways....

[Bigheadache]

So wait... these aren't really shipping yet? It's just a paper launch then? Hmm.. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple updated the G5 again by November.

Shipping in late June to OEMs. the dual core Opteron 8xx's are already shipping. Retail box kits are expected to lag by a couple of months so you probably won't see them in June.

[840quadra]

yeah but you have to use Windows (or Linux) the point being that you dont get the benefit of OS X with that machine, which is the best part about using a Mac in the first place. and its not like you can compare x86 hardware to PowerPC hardware spec to spec because they are different platforms that work in different ways....


Good point,

and even the software that can run on both systems is sometimes not a fair test of either platform.

I run both an AMD and PPC system in my house, they both do what I need, and I like to have close to the fastest of both worlds.

[840quadra]

Why do you people still insist Jobs is going to put out a DC PowerMac right after Apple just updated thier entire line(except ibook). If by some miracle Apple was going to put a Dual Dual PM G5 it would cost more then 90% of the people here can afford. atleast $3299...with a crappy Radeon 9650..lol


Update: Well seems someone actually did Overclock an X2 4800+ ...the crazy boys over at Amdzone hit 2.7ghz per core on stock Voltage, they said it was pretty easy to OC and that 3.0ghz seemed very possible :eek:

http://www.amdzone.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=124&page=4

Wow, take it easy and take a touch less Caffene before posting here. :eek:

No need to flame Mongo for what he said, he just has high hopes, and said nothing about what exactly he expects from Apple, so lets not assume anything that wasn't said.

[Hydra]

Yep, Athlon 64 X2 4400+ (1MB L2 caches) is the one that's slowly starting to lure me to go back to x86 age.. :eek:

But don't worry, I won't be giving up on Apples either. :)

[840quadra]

Yep, Athlon 64 X2 4400+ (1MB L2 caches) is the one that's slowly starting to lure me to go back to x86 age.. :eek:

But don't worry, I won't be giving up on Apples either. :)

It is fun to live in both worlds.

my setup
X86 AMD computer = compatable hardware for work applications, and the few games I enjoy.
Powermac G5 = Studio recording box,video audio editing, OS X play box, and Itunes music server.

[Mav451]

Man, jiggie being bold again. I mean, its exciting, but I don't flaunt it. Its like sports. You let the actions speak for themselves. Some sports fans trash talk before the game, other people Monday-morning quarterback. I prefer to do neither.

When the chips perform, then they speak for themselves. By perform, I mean they have a tangible impact. Hearing about A64's being used in the movie Sin City is what I consider a tangible impact. If we hear about the X2's being used in new supercomputers/renderfarms/etc...then you can tell me to shut up.

[dubbz]

If we hear about the X2's being used in new supercomputers/renderfarms/etc...then you can tell me to shut up.

Won't happen, since the X2 is made for desktop systems. But I'm sure we'll see supercomputers with dual core Opterons in the future.

[840quadra]

Won't happen, since the X2 is made for desktop systems. But I'm sure we'll see supercomputers with dual core Opterons in the future.

People once said the same thing about buiilding a Super comptuer out of G5 Powermac computers. If someone takes the time and spends the money on an AMD system like the fourmer Powermac Super computer, it can be done.

[emotion]

I think we're fogettimg here that AMD and IBM have a partnership to produce chips.

http://www.macnewsworld.com/story/36834.html

and that there was a rumor that Jobs was in talks with AMD at some point.


what this info means is another thing....macosx on amd? or a more complicated arrangement.

[~Shard~]

Well when u compare the hardware to the overpriced stuff apple will sell you.

...

AMD Athlon 64 3000+(Venice) $149
DFI Lanparty UT NF4 Ultra-D (SLI Modded) $130
Leadtek Geforce 6600GT 128MB GDDR3 $169
Total Cost of Upgrade $448............some of the Venice CPUs have been reported to hit 3.0ghz on AIR. :eek:

Sorry but no Mac is gonna give me that kind of value. So for less then the price of a Mac Mini i've made my PC 4x faster then a Mac mini.

Depends how you define value.

I always find it amusing when people resort to quoting either system performance statistics or individual pieces of hardware and their associated costs when trying to justify why a PC machine is "better value" than a Mac machine. Quote all the hardware specs you like, for me performance and value is measured by the OS, the ease of use, the stability, the security, the software (big component - how powerful it is, i.e. iLife), how productive I can be, and how much fun I can have using my machine - these are the factors that make me rank one machine superior to another when it comes to things like value - hardware is only one small piece.

Of course you need decent hardware to run everything fine, but when my friend can run all the latest apps on his 4-year old 450 MHz PowerBook (512 MB RAM), and when he installed Panther it actually made his system faster, you can't tell me that the latest, greatest and fastest hardware is a necessity. :cool:

Not knocking that system, or the AMD chip - all impressive. Just saying... :cool:

[Dont Hurt Me]

I think we're fogettimg here that AMD and IBM have a partnership to produce chips.

http://www.macnewsworld.com/story/36834.html

and that there was a rumor that Jobs was in talks with AMD at some point.


what this info means is another thing....macosx on amd? or a more complicated arrangement.
It would be nice if we could get modern hardware and OSX at the same time. With Apples structure only the top powermac could be considered new tech everything below it is kind of old and slow when compared to Pcs. Its a shame the fastest single cpu machine apple makes is only a 2.0 G5 iMac where in the pc world they will be seling dual core athlons to anyone who has a socket 939 nmachine. I have said it for years best software and for the most part very stale hardware performance wise in fancy clothes. Come on Steve give us OSX for Athlons if hardware has to be so.....older. :cool:

[virividox]

well if i could run a mac on an amd chip i would :) why not

[jiggie2g]

Man, jiggie being bold again. I mean, its exciting, but I don't flaunt it. Its like sports. You let the actions speak for themselves. Some sports fans trash talk before the game, other people Monday-morning quarterback. I prefer to do neither.

When the chips perform, then they speak for themselves. By perform, I mean they have a tangible impact. Hearing about A64's being used in the movie Sin City is what I consider a tangible impact. If we hear about the X2's being used in new supercomputers/renderfarms/etc...then you can tell me to shut up.


Would A64's being used to render all the special effects in Star Wars Episode III:ROTS , or being used to Peter Jacksons King Kong , and Dreamworks upcoming CG film Madagascar. Be considered a Tangible impact.

Personally what I consider tangible is AMD who less then 2 years ago was being laughed at by all Intel Fanboys + Critics around the world for it's aging Athlon XP being creamed by the P4. Has now Humbled Both Chipzilla and IBM with a Superior product forcing both companies back to the drawing board.

[blitzkrieg79]

Would A64's being used to render all the special effects in Star Wars Episode III:ROTS , or being used to Peter Jacksons King Kong , and Dreamworks upcoming CG film Madagascar. Be considered a Tangible impact.

Personally what I consider tangible is AMD who less then 2 years ago was being laughed at by all Intel Fanboys + Critics around the world for it's aging Athlon XP being creamed by the P4. Has now Humbled Both Chipzilla and IBM with a Superior product forcing both companies back to the drawing board.


Thats how it always is with technology, companies overlap each other from time to time from generation to generation, its not like AMD will hold performance lead forever, someone will come out with a better processor design sooner or later and that someone will be IBM lol But seriously, I really do think IBM is making the most noise lately, hell with dual core chips from AMD or Intel (IBM had those since Power4 was released), They got Power5 which gives Itanium fits at a cheaper cost, they got the CELL (which looks like a demon when it comes to multimedia apps), and you know they are not sitting still and are researching and developing desktop versions of probably Power5 or maybe even a CELL-like processor, I mean I know Intel and AMD are about to ship/are shipping dual cores right now but I dont think the software is ready for it anyway...

[jiggie2g]

Thats how it always is with technology, companies overlap each other from time to time from generation to generation, its not like AMD will hold performance lead forever, someone will come out with a better processor design sooner or later and that someone will be IBM lol But seriously, I really do think IBM is making the most noise lately, hell with dual core chips from AMD or Intel (IBM had those since Power4 was released), They got Power5 which gives Itanium fits at a cheaper cost, they got the CELL (which looks like a demon when it comes to multimedia apps), and you know they are not sitting still and are researching and developing desktop versions of probably Power5 or maybe even a CELL-like processor, I mean I know Intel and AMD are about to ship/are shipping dual cores right now but I dont think the software is ready for it anyway...


To be quite honest I don't even consider IBM a contender at all. Pretender more like it. As you will never see an IBM processor in a x86 PC, Intel and AMD will never allow that. I Love OSX but from a market stand point IBM/Apple is to the PC market what Ralph Nader is to a Presidential Election ...a statistical non-Factor. Apple will always be a shrinking nichie , and IBM will do thier thing in the high-end server market.

Cell is never going to penetrate the PC market. It's a Techie's wet dream , just like Sony's Emotion Engine 5yrs ago. for cell to work all apps would have to be re-written from the ground up to take advantage to the hardware and no one will do that.

[ravenvii]

IBM not a contender? Are you kidding me? There is much more to the CPU business than just desktops. IBM has just about monopolized the console sector for this generation, making chips for the XBox 360, PS3 and the Revolution. There's also the high-end server stuff you mentioned. Not a contender. LOL

[blitzkrieg79]

To be quite honest I don't even consider IBM a contender at all. Pretender more like it. As you will never see an IBM processor in a x86 PC, Intel and AMD will never allow that. I Love OSX but from a market stand point IBM/Apple is to the PC market what Ralph Nader is to a Presidential Election ...a statistical non-Factor. Apple will always be a shrinking nichie , and IBM will do thier thing in the high-end server market.

Cell is never going to penetrate the PC market. It's a Techie's wet dream , just like Sony's Emotion Engine 5yrs ago. for cell to work all apps would have to be re-written from the ground up to take advantage to the hardware and no one will do that.

I agree with you to a certain point BUT somehow Apple was able to survive the entire Windows 95 era when all the other companies such as Commodore and Atari went down, they survived the worst and I think that people will turn away from Microsoft OSs to something that actually works and isn't as prone to spyware nor viruses... Back in the 1980s it was unthinkable that Atari or Commodore were ever going to go down, but they all ignored what Microsoft was doing... To make it all short, technology changes quickly and in this business you better market/innovate or you will go down very quickly...

As far as IBM is concerned, I never said they were gonna compete with Intel nor AMD (but come to think of it they do compete mainly in the server market), its just that IBM currently offers the most innovative (plain simply best) technology of the mentioned 3 companies and I dont think they are pretenders, its just that they are trying to go against the Wintel crowd and the only ally (like they got any other choice) is pretty much Apple (and we know Apples current marketshare)... IBM and Apple drive on a totally different architecture than Wintel and with their low market share its even more difficult to push the technology forward but as I mentioned earlier, both were able to survive the Microsoft storm and I think the best it yet to come from those companies where Microsoft and Intel will probably steadily slide...

As far as CELL is concerned, you know, Emotion Engine was developed by Sony (and Toshiba if I am not mistaking) which didnt have too much experience designing multimedia processor chips. And thats why they turned to IBM, and I believe that unlike the Emotion Engine, CELL is actually a serious threat to the entire computing world as we know it today, if CELL was designed solely by Sony I wouldnt believe the hype either but IBM was there for a very big reason... And I wouldnt be surprised if Apple was on the Cell desing secretly either as they got something all the other companies dont have and don't want to deal with Microsoft anymore and that is Darwin/Mac OS X...

[minimax]

[...] Intel Fanboys [...]

What's that, written all over your face?

Seriously, I thought most teenagers idolized popstars. Times have changed...

[jiggie2g]

What's that, written all over your face?

Seriously, I thought most teenagers idolized popstars. Times have changed...


Another Ignorant comment from a Mac Zealot ....now hurry back home before you miss Fox News. :p

I never rooted for Intel , the Pentium M is a great CPU i will give them that , but otherwise they make crappy CPU's. The P4 and Windows Me was the reason I went over to Mac in the 1st place. Now that XP is a decent OS and AMD is kicking ass all over again, T-Bird days are back :D

And I wouldnt be surprised if Apple was on the Cell desing secretly either as they got something all the other companies dont have and don't want to deal with Microsoft anymore and that is Darwin/Mac OS X...

Apple can't just switch hardware architecture's at will. They would have to rewrite OSX and companies would have to rewrite programs over again , that will not happen. Plus everyone here wpuld have to buy a new mac. If that's the case they just might as well go x86. from what I read about cell on Anandtech it dosen't seem to be an ideal CPU for the kind of complex OS's that desktops use. Consoles use very simple OS's do not require all the extra processes that say an OSX or XP would.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2379

[Blue Velvet]

Now that XP is a decent OS...


My recent experiences with XP Pro SP2 have been nothing of the sort. I was amazed and also disappointed to see how little Windows has come on since '95 & '98. I'd even prefer to use Win2000 which I do every day on the office PC sitting next to my dual 2.5 G5.

I guess it depends on how high you set the bar...

[minimax]

Perhaps I should spell it out for you: A M D F A N B O Y.
Sure it's a good processor, but the way you are obsessing over it is quite...ludicrous, really.

[jiggie2g]

My recent experiences with XP Pro SP2 have been nothing of the sort. I was amazed and also disappointed to see how little Windows has come on since '95 & '98. I'd even prefer to use Win2000 which I do every day on the office PC sitting next to my dual 2.5 G5.

I guess it depends on how high you set the bar...


i don't get why people here have such a hard time with XP, my PC works perfectly. You just have to maintain it, keep it free from spyware , viruses, and bloatware to a minimum. have a Proper firewall, use Firefox + Thunderbird. Don't use Norton that stuff will drag your PC.

I see it like this Mac is like a expensive but very well built European car that needs no extras (Audi or Volkswagon), while PC is like a Japanese car that may be of lesser quality and price but you can make an infinite number of modifications because of a large after market to make a killer PC (Nissan or Mazda).

[PlaceofDis]

i don't get why people here have such a hard time with XP, my PC works perfectly. You just have to maintain it, keep it free from spyware , viruses, and bloatware to a minimum. have a Proper firewall, use Firefox + Thunderbird. Don't use Norton that stuff will drag your PC.

yes and i dont need to be bothered keeping up with all that stuff, i want a maching that works and doesnt need to be constantaly kept on tabs, Macs work plain and simple, PCs need way too much maintenence, to the point where it is unacceptable to me at least. XP works sometimes sure, but really you shouldnt have to do all that just to keep your machine functioning

[jiggie2g]

Perhaps I should spell it out for you: A M D F A N B O Y.
Sure it's a good processor, but the way you are obsessing over it is quite...ludicrous, really.


Coming from a Mac Zealot I will take that as a complement. Now go back to praying to that 40ft statue of George W. in your backyard.

yes and i dont need to be bothered keeping up with all that stuff, i want a maching that works and doesnt need to be constantaly kept on tabs, Macs work plain and simple, PCs need way too much maintenence, to the point where it is unacceptable to me at least. XP works sometimes sure, but really you shouldnt have to do all that just to keep your machine functioning

most of that stuff I mentioned works automatically i program it to do all my scanning when i'm at work or asleep. So I never notice it. the rest is just common sense , don't open spam , don't use kazza , block pop ups.

I will not argure OSX is KING , yes i said it. However people here who bash XP the most really just don't have any real technical savvy. It's not nearly as complicated as Linux with it's 1 million distro's

[blitzkrieg79]

Apple can't just switch hardware architecture's at will. They would have to rewrite OSX and companies would have to rewrite programs over again , that will not happen. Plus everyone here wpuld have to buy a new mac. If that's the case they just might as well go x86. from what I read about cell on Anandtech it dosen't seem to be an ideal CPU for the kind of complex OS's that desktops use. Consoles use very simple OS's do not require all the extra processes that say an OSX or XP would.


Who says anything about switching? Every heard of an idea called a coprocessor? SIngle dual core Powermac with a Cell-like coprocessor and its not as difficult as some sites made it to be...

And yes Cell is for simpler more specialized devices but Apple would benefit from it if it was used along side a regular processor especially with audio/video production (isnt that was MACs are for?)...

And as far as Mac OS X/Darwin goes, Apple has probably the best consumer OS on the plante right now, even the next gen console will need some kind of an OS and why would SONY want to invest money in OS development when for probably fraction of the cost they can "borrow" Darwin and go from there... Processor research and development is difficult but in my eyes developing a great OS is even more difficult...

[PlaceofDis]

Coming from a Mac Zealot I will take that as a complement. Now go back to praying to that 40ft statue of George W. in your backyard.



most of that stuff I mentioned works automatically i program it to do all my scanning when i'm at work or asleep. So I never notice it. the rest is just common sense , don't open spam , don't use kazza , block pop ups.

I will not argure OSX is KING , yes i said it. However people here who bash XP the most really just don't have any real technical savvy. It's not nearly as complicated as Linux with it's 1 million distro's

i am by no means an Zealot, and i know that wasnt directed at me either, and i agree that XP is much better for the average user than many/most/almost all Linux distros, but you still have to have some savvy when working with XP, it just doesnt offer the ease of use as OS X. my parents use XP, and while its not the worst thing in the world like ME, they still run into problems for me to fix, if i could get them on OS X things would be simpler, they would have to adjust sure, but they would also have less worries about making sure that everything is running smoothly, btw, if i may ask what do you use to keep XP running well? might be something i can get my 'rents to use, might make my life easier too

[calyxman]

These tests speak volumes and thumbs up to AMD for beating the path and leaving IBM and Intel in the dust. Cupertino, you better take note. I'm expecting mobile dual cores to be hitting the notebook line sooner or later, and if the Powerbooks still remain on a single G4, I will kiss the mac platform goodbye on my next notebook purchase.

This ranting about Windows XP is nothing more than seething hatred at MS, it's almost like a sacrilege to their mac loyalty to say anything nice about a Microsot product. Which is fine, but it gets in the way of truth. I run two XP machines and never had the OS crash once. My laptop goes in and out of standby and hibernation, and never once did I have to do a cold boot since I last installed some Office updates a week and a half ago. Sure I had apps that crashed such as Firefox, but the same crap happens on a Mac.

[Blue Velvet]

This ranting about Windows XP is nothing more than seething hatred at MS, it's almost like a sacrilege to their mac loyalty to say anything nice about a Microsot product. Which is fine, but it gets in the way of truth. I run two XP machines and never had the OS crash once.

No. Your experience may not match others... I was open-minded about it for a couple of weeks on a brand-new machine, no web access so no virus protection or firewall necessary. Just a couple of 3rd-party commercial apps, no hacks. It was a constantly crashing ugly awkward inflexible POS.

It's now made way for a dual 2ghz PM... no wonder our IT team won't touch XP. As I said Win2000 seems far more stable but it still is an ugly frustrating computing experience.

What you guys don't seem to get is that for most people, the OS is the computer.

[jiggie2g]

These tests speak volumes and thumbs up to AMD for beating the path and leaving IBM and Intel in the dust. Cupertino, you better take note. I'm expecting mobile dual cores to be hitting the notebook line sooner or later, and if the Powerbooks still remain on a single G4, I will kiss the mac platform goodbye on my next notebook purchase.

This ranting about Windows XP is nothing more than seething hatred at MS, it's almost like a sacrilege to their mac loyalty to say anything nice about a Microsot product. Which is fine, but it gets in the way of truth. I run two XP machines and never had the OS crash once. My laptop goes in and out of standby and hibernation, and never once did I have to do a cold boot since I last installed some Office updates a week and a half ago. Sure I had apps that crashed such as Firefox, but the same crap happens on a Mac.


Thank You Calyxman, My Old iMac Crashed quite a few times with Panther. An the people here bashing XP with out any real justification do nothing but further expose them selves for what they are ........Fanatics. Just like the Christian Right...who are Americas version of the Shiite Muslim.

And for that Mini Max/Mini Me Loser who called me an AMD Fanboy , Yea I am a fan of AMD , Simply because over the years they have offered greats products at an outstanding value compared to Intel. But when they screw up or lagg behind I wil give them a motivational kick in the ass to get them moving quicker. I won't worship them and call thier CEO Hector Ruiz Infallible ...which is what the Maz Zealots do with Apple and Steve Jobs.

[Blue Velvet]

Thank You Calyxman, My Old iMac Crashed quite a few times with Panther. An the people here bashing XP with out any real justification do nothing but further expose them selves for what they are ........Fanatics. Just like the Christian Right...who are Americas version of the Shiite Muslim.



Listening to the two of you is surreal.

You come on a Mac forum and seem to expect people to be swept up by this stuff. Nothing personal but just flip the situation around: imagine a few posters from here cruising into a PC forum and raving about the latest Macs. They'd get flamed to within an inch of their lives... strong feelings exist on both sides.

I appreciate that this is interesting news to many people but because of the nature of this forum don't expect people to feel that warmly about it and just calling us fanatics is only likely to make people feel more hostile.

To me, what often makes these converstions shallow and sterile is the complete lack of interest displayed towards what you actually do with these machines (apart from gaming, usually)

For most people here, I would wager that their Macs are a means to an end, to produce something, to improve their lives in some way. Endless discussions about the minutiae of PC motherboards is as fascinating to the majority of us as talking about the inner-most workings of a car... interesting to a point but where is that car taking you?

So don't be too ready to dismiss others as fanatics while simultaneously displaying a blinkered view of the world yourself.

[ravenvii]

What you guys don't seem to get is that for most people, the OS is the computer.

Exactly. That's how it's supposed to be - how you USE the computer should come before how fast the computer's hardware is.

[Mav451]

Remember this guys (both for BlueVelvet and jiggie2g):

The people who have problems, complain about it loudly. I have posted, since last year about the blatant instability of the 2.0G5's at my university. On the other hand, the other 90% who don't have problems, don't complain.

Ditto with the PC. Most of the people I know do not have as extreme problems with XP as the "knowledgeable" Mac user does. Which is ironic, since many Mac users claim that their knowledge of the "traumatic" XP experience makes them experts.

Again, lots of people (believe it or not) get by JUST fine on Dells. Other get by just fine on home-builts. You never hear their complaints b/c they don't have any. Now, the people who do (minority) will yell/kick/scream at the top of their lungs. You gotta remember that intensity/zealotry does not necessitate an accurate representation of the majority.

All of my friends are doing just fine on XP SP2, and some of them are the most air-headed people you will ever meet (they're not geeks after all). And it only makes it more comical when Mac fans insist that XP SP2 crashes constantly.

[calyxman]

No. Your experience may not match others... I was open-minded about it for a couple of weeks on a brand-new machine, no web access so no virus protection or firewall necessary. Just a couple of 3rd-party commercial apps, no hacks. It was a constantly crashing ugly awkward inflexible POS.

Uhh, no, I'd have to disagree, you're experience doesn't match the majority of Windows users. And everybody has varying degrees of experience both in the Windows and Mac platforms.

Do you browse the OS X forums at all? Here's an example (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=123580). Remember the days of 10.0? The unstoppable beach ball? Kernel panics? "Unexpectedly quit[ting]" apps such as Mail, iTunes, etc.? What is it, you guys have short term memory or something? Classic bugs, OS 9 freeze ups, I mean the list goes on.


It's now made way for a dual 2ghz PM... no wonder our IT team won't touch XP. As I said Win2000 seems far more stable but it still is an ugly frustrating computing experience.

What you guys don't seem to get is that for most people, the OS is the computer.

Yeah and that's why most people run Windows machines, is that what you're trying to say?

I mean seriously, I'm not trying to turn this into a flame war, but when I start seeing comments like "Windoze sucks" and "Windows is POS os" along with broke "s" keys that produce a "$" instead as in "M$," what are we supposed to do, suck it up like a bunch of sycophantic lapdogs and say "yeah man, right on" instead? You don't see jiggie, me or anyone else attacking OS X even though we primarily use Windows, do you?

Did anybody have sympathy for this person's (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=125791) experience? They use the same language and attacks that you guys use against windows except it was against a mac instead, but look how they were treated.

[calyxman]

Listening to the two of you is surreal.

You come on a Mac forum and seem to expect people to be swept up by this stuff. Nothing personal but just flip the situation around: imagine a few posters from here cruising into a PC forum and raving about the latest Macs. They'd get flamed to within an inch of their lives... strong feelings exist on both sides.

I appreciate that this is interesting news to many people but because of the nature of this forum don't expect people to feel that warmly about it and just calling us fanatics is only likely to make people feel more hostile.

To me, what often makes these converstions shallow and sterile is the complete lack of interest displayed towards what you actually do with these machines (apart from gaming, usually)

For most people here, I would wager that their Macs are a means to an end, to produce something, to improve their lives in some way. Endless discussions about the minutiae of PC motherboards is as fascinating to the majority of us as talking about the inner-most workings of a car... interesting to a point but where is that car taking you?

So don't be too ready to dismiss others as fanatics while simultaneously displaying a blinkered view of the world yourself.

Dude, you're way out of line and frankly I'm getting sick of this. I complemented AMD, and my statements were in relation to Apple's hardware in my first post for this thread. I responded to what the Windows bashers said. If they didn't say it I would have kept my mouth shut, but you guys invited so I had to comment.

If you can't [expletive deleted] carry on a conversation about the hardware advancements on a PC platform without dragging MS and Windows into the picture, then you are the ones that have issues, not us.

[Blue Velvet]

Dude, you're way out of line and frankly I'm getting sick of this. I complemented AMD, and my statements were in relation to Apple's hardware in my first post for this thread. I responded to what the Windows bashers said. If they didn't say it I would have kept my mouth shut, but you guys invited so I had to comment.

If you can't [expletive deleted] carry on a conversation about the hardware advancements on a PC platform without dragging MS and Windows into the picture, then you are the ones that have issues, not us.




Errr... I don't actually recall quoting you at all. And if anyone is getting way out of line, it's you and your unnecessary hostility. My issue is with jiggie2g ironically calling people fanatics.

And it's dude-ess to you. :D


I mean seriously, I'm not trying to turn this into a flame war

Uh-huh.

[calyxman]

Errr... I don't actually recall quoting you at all. And if anyone is getting way out of line, it's you and your unnecessary hostility. My issue is with jiggie2g ironically calling people fanatics.

And it's dude-ess to you. :D

LOL, this is terrific. You are even more confused than I thought. If you weren't referring to me, then who the hell is "the two of you," when you were quoting jiggie who was responding to one of my posts?



Uh-huh.

Nuh-huh.

[bousozoku]

I'd suggest you settle down now. If you can't post reasonably, and these aren't great examples, don't post at all.

Thanks!

[wrc fan]

The first person to call someone a "Mac Zealot" occoured before anyone was called a "Windows Fanboy" or anyone said "Windows Sucks", in fact, the only person to say "Windows Sucks" is calyxman in saying this:

I mean seriously, I'm not trying to turn this into a flame war, but when I start seeing comments like "Windoze sucks" and "Windows is POS os" along with broke "s" keys that produce a "$" instead as in "M$," what are we supposed to do, suck it up like a bunch of sycophantic lapdogs and say "yeah man, right on" instead? You don't see jiggie, me or anyone else attacking OS X even though we primarily use Windows, do you?

But guess what, nobody said any of that stuff but you, calyxman.

Honestly, if you come to a Mac board praising how great Windows is, you gotta expect to have people say why they don't like it. I know a lot of people who have had problems with PCs and I don't know why, it's just like the PC has some sort of evil agenda against them. I have also seen people that have problems with Macs and I don't know why... I guess the Mac just has some sort of evil agenda against them :)

In summary, just because someone does not like Windows does not mean they are a mac zealot. And when you start calling people names because they do not agree with your opinion on Windows then really, you are the one being a zealot.

[calyxman]

I'd suggest you settle down now. If you can't post reasonably, and these aren't great examples, don't post at all.

Thanks!

And I suggest that you use your brain and read what's being said, or don't post at all either.




Honestly, if you come to a Mac board praising how great Windows is, you gotta expect to have people say why they don't like it. I know a lot of people who have had problems with PCs and I don't know why, it's just like the PC has some sort of evil agenda against them. I have also seen people that have problems with Macs and I don't know why... I guess the Mac just has some sort of evil agenda against them :)

In summary, just because someone does not like Windows does not mean they are a mac zealot. And when you start calling people names because they do not agree with your opinion on Windows then really, you are the one being a zealot.

For the final, stinking, time: I did not come here "singing the praises" of windows, I did not come here bashing Mac OS X, I complemented AMD's progress, I neutralized some hatred towards Win XP based on my experience with the OS, I get called a troll but no one is called to task for that stuff, and here I am being scolded, so all I can say is, I'm fed up!

Why can't I respond to these comments:

yeah but you have to use Windows (or Linux) the point being that you dont get the benefit of OS X with that machine, which is the best part about using a Mac in the first place. and its not like you can compare x86 hardware to PowerPC hardware spec to spec because they are different platforms that work in different ways....

What's that, written all over your face?

Seriously, I thought most teenagers idolized popstars. Times have changed...

My recent experiences with XP Pro SP2 have been nothing of the sort. I was amazed and also disappointed to see how little Windows has come on since '95 & '98. I'd even prefer to use Win2000 which I do every day on the office PC sitting next to my dual 2.5 G5.

I guess it depends on how high you set the bar...

Perhaps I should spell it out for you: A M D F A N B O Y.
Sure it's a good processor, but the way you are obsessing over it is quite...ludicrous, really.


yes and i dont need to be bothered keeping up with all that stuff, i want a maching that works and doesnt need to be constantaly kept on tabs, Macs work plain and simple, PCs need way too much maintenence, to the point where it is unacceptable to me at least. XP works sometimes sure, but really you shouldnt have to do all that just to keep your machine functioning

i am by no means an Zealot, and i know that wasnt directed at me either, and i agree that XP is much better for the average user than many/most/almost all Linux distros, but you still have to have some savvy when working with XP, it just doesnt offer the ease of use as OS X. my parents use XP, and while its not the worst thing in the world like ME, they still run into problems for me to fix, if i could get them on OS X things would be simpler, they would have to adjust sure, but they would also have less worries about making sure that everything is running smoothly, btw, if i may ask what do you use to keep XP running well? might be something i can get my 'rents to use, might make my life easier too

See what I mean?

And just to make you guys happy, lemme grab a white flag and surrender to a stupid ass battle that you all wanted to drag everyone into: Windows sucks, Mac OS X is a from heaven, Steve Jobs is God, and Bill Gates is Satan.

Are you happy? Seriously, I don't know where your heads are, but they're certainly not between your shoulders because if you had read my first post in this thread with some reason and "open-mindedness" that you profess to have, there was nothing sycophantic or "fan-boyish" about my comments on windows.

And any denial on you part is outright sheer hypocrisy.

[wrc fan]

calyxman, you must want to get banned, talking to a mod like that... I'm not sure what your problem is, you seem to be taking everything so personal. Much like Blue Velvet who wasn't talking about you, I wasn't talking about you, either. I was talking about jiggie2g singing praises. He was also the one calling people names. Why do you feel it's your duty to defend jiggie2g when people get upset about his attitude? And I'm not saying I condone the rections people made to him, but you have to admit that he was the one that started calling names... do a search he was also the first one to say Intel Fanboys. Sorry if you're offended that I don't approve of jiggie2g's statements, but it really has nothing to do with you or with how I feel about windows (do a search, and I doubt you'll ever find me saying anything negative about windows)

[calyxman]

calyxman, you must want to get banned, talking to a mod like that... I'm not sure what your problem is, you seem to be taking everything so personal. Much like Blue Velvet who wasn't talking about you, I wasn't talking about you, either. I was talking about jiggie2g singing praises. He was also the one calling people names. Why do you feel it's your duty to defend jiggie2g when people get upset about his attitude? And I'm not saying I condone the rections people made to him, but you have to admit that he was the one that started calling names... do a search he was also the first one to say Intel Fanboys. Sorry if you're offended that I don't approve of jiggie2g's statements, but it really has nothing to do with you or with how I feel about windows (do a search, and I doubt you'll ever find me saying anything negative about windows)

If I deem comments to be unreasonable then I'll respond. I don't appreciate when my comments are thrown under the microscope and I get hung out to dry when I made no attempt with my initial post to start a war. But I had to respond to the nonsense about what was being said about Windows, and I didn't make it into a drawn out out discussion, all I said was in my experience, Windows XP has been running fine for me, that's it!

If Blue Velvet says who "the two of you" are, and I'm not in the list, then I'll take my comments back to her. This is the quote I responded to with my second post in this thread:

No. Your experience may not match others... I was open-minded about it for a couple of weeks on a brand-new machine, no web access so no virus protection or firewall necessary. Just a couple of 3rd-party commercial apps, no hacks. It was a constantly crashing ugly awkward inflexible POS.

It's now made way for a dual 2ghz PM... no wonder our IT team won't touch XP. As I said Win2000 seems far more stable but it still is an ugly frustrating computing experience.

What you guys don't seem to get is that for most people, the OS is the computer.

Now take a look and see who made those comments. That's right, it was Blue Velvet. Then she responded to what Jiggie said, who was in turn quoting what I said, hence "the two of you." So who are those two?

I'm not here to defend jiggie, I'm not here to defend Microsoft nor Apple, I'm not here to defend anyone. I'm here to speak my opinion.

[feakbeak]

calyxman, all I can say is... wow!

You and I have been in agreement in a few other threads that started heading into Windows-bashing territory. My advice is to try to not take it too personally. Also, if you intend to stick around this board you may not want to insult the mods. I'm not sure how impulsive they can be, but I wouldn't test them. Then again, maybe you don't have intentions of sticking around MR.

This ranting about Windows XP is nothing more than seething hatred at MS, it's almost like a sacrilege to their mac loyalty to say anything nice about a Microsot product. Which is fine, but it gets in the way of truth.
While I don't think your first post was fanboy-ish or overly critical of the Mac platform, comments like the one above can easily be provoking on a Mac forum, even if it was not intended that way. I think threads like this just gradually degrade into arguments from members misunderstanding posts or picking out small fragements of a post and over-emphasizing it. Still, you have to keep your cool and bring things back to center - you seemed to just get more aggressive rather than trying to smooth things over. I really like Windows XP and following x86 hardware advancements, so I can relate to your frustration with some of the posters on MR who seem to be affected by Steve's RDF. Just try to keep your cool, reactionary posts usually just lead to bad places.

As for the actual TOPIC. I am extremely excited about the new AMD X2 chips. My PC is nearing four years old and is showing its age despite the upgrades I have done over the years. I intend to build my next PC on an X2 chip, probably the 4400+. I will run Windows XP on it without any regrets, I think it is a great OS. I also think OS X is a great OS. There can be more than one good OS.

At any rate, I think the posters who think the hardware details are boring simply don't understand the "hobby" aspect of building a system. Someone used a car analogy - that most people don't care what is inside as long as the car performs well and handles nicely. I am one of those drivers. However, auto enthusiasts who tweak and restore cars love the details of new technology within cars. It is important to them and following and utilizing the latest technology is enjoyable for them. They are a small subset of drivers but they represent a significant market within the auto industry.

Likewise, those of us who build systems enjoy reading about and discussing the latest developments in hardware advancements and the AMD X2 processor is a significant advance and so we're excited about it. I know it is x86 hardware which OS X can't run on, but it is computer related and I think it is fair to have a little discussion about such topics on this board. No need to rain on someone else's parade because you aren't into hardware. I don't go in threads about Photoshop and say "Why are you so excited about new filters? All that matters is if your graphics/pictures look good." Trust me if one could build their own PPC system to run OS X we would be doing it. Why exactly can't you do this anyway? Does Apple put checks in the OS X code to only run if certain hardware IDs or firmware is found on the system? I would imagine you could get all the components from vendors one way or another. Sorry... drifting off topic.

Anyway, just my two cents.

[calyxman]

feakbeak, thanks for your comments. I agree, maybe I could have avoided making the comments about "sacrilege" and so forth. I think we're still in this mode where if you dare say Windows is even "ok," then you're thrown out into the sea.

I'm sorry this had to drag out, but I had to stand up once and for all. I'll gladly put this to rest.

[JRM PowerPod]

And any denial on you part is outright sheer hypocrisy.

WTF is going on in this thread!

-I was reading about what seems to be a cool processor and next thing a war erupts, (pretty good one at that)

Summary:

AMD X2 = Great Processor
OS X = Great OS
MS XP = Crap
G5 = lingering

Let's face it people the AMD chip is cool but it is common knowledge that Windows is crap. Someone suggested things like not using Kazaa and all this sort of stuff to make your PC work better. But at the end of the day you want to use your PC for productive purposes (not updating virus software 5 times a day, virus scanning anything that comes near your computer, not using things like Kazaa) WHAT'S THE POINT OF A COMPUTER IF YOU CAN'T USE IT. The G5 still kills anything on the market (except when gaming), look at the performance differences on the Apple site.
This AMD won't arrive until OCT/NOV. June is next month, WWDC is next month and Steve Jobs has 2 hours to fill in. Dual Core PowerMac's maybe, maybe not? Anyway, with how much the G5 2.7 kills the current Athlon in things like Photoshop, i'd say it would still be hard to topple.

Anyway, chill out - and to those who defend XP, all i say is shame. Coz I have 2 PC's running it, and a laptop running ME, its a shambles.

[MrDavid]

:) Exactly. That's how it's supposed to be - how you USE the computer should come before how fast the computer's hardware is.10 points for you sir :cool:. However, I could imagine it being a little problematic if attempting to burn a DVD on a 25 MHz x86 :D haha...



For the record: I am a Windows user, since version 3. Till then I was just using DOS. Which happens to be my favorite OS. Never had it crash on me, unless the program was buggy itself. Granted, there are many bad things about it like the ability not to multitask on default, but you could make it do it. I've never had a problem with Windows at all, the occasional bug but Microsoft would resolve the issue *sometime*. I have managed to be one of the few people I know that has not had an issue with SP2 as well. I work for Comcast, HSI, and we get a lot of SP2 issues. First verify they have installed it just recently, if so, send over to Microsoft for troubleshooting. One thing for sure, troubleshooting a Mac connectivity issue is way easier than troubleshooting a Windows based problem. We tend to joke about how OS X is like a toaster, in terms of ease of use. I love the idea that there is something bigger/better, as in terms of the Athlon x2 but I am certainly no zealot towards other systems. Personally, when the G5 came out it certainly made me think about doing the switch. In the end, I decided to stay with x86, due to price and familarness of it. Granted, it doesn't mean I do check up on the Mac side to see new technology/hardware.

Also, if anyone wants a gmail account just PM and I'll send you an invite. Send your exhisting e-mail account, so I can send it to you :). Less than 45 invites, yet.

[Mav451]

Let's face it people the AMD chip is cool but it is common knowledge (on MR perhaps?) that Windows is crap.

I inserted a word that would make your ridiculous statement even slightly logical.
Then again, I suppose it just isn't as funny then, now is it?

[minimax]

Unbelievable...concerning my remark I just wanted to point out to Jiggie he/she was taking a rather banal piss on IBM and so called "intel fanboys". Ever looked in the mirror? Jiggie you need to cool down. I'm still wondering how somebody that makes fun of IBM as 'pretending to make processors' can take himself so seriously. bwahaha.

[MrDavid]

The G5 still kills anything on the market (except when gaming), look at the performance differences on the Apple site.
Biased info (truth, or false) has no merit in a discussion;). Microsoft has stuff on their site that praises Windows XP/Server 2003/etc all day long.



Anyway, chill out - and to those who defend XP, all i say is shame. Coz I have 2 PC's running it, and a laptop running ME, its a shambles.I have had NO problems with Windows PCs since XP. SP2 is running very smoothly, I haven't had a BSOD, no unexpected application crashes, nothing. I keep this computer in hibernation all day, with only 10 seconds to come back. I haven't had to reboot for anything expect driver updates, software updates, etc. Scheduled maintence.

[JRM PowerPod]

I inserted a word that would make your ridiculous statement even slightly logical.
Then again, I suppose it just isn't as funny then, now is it?


What's not logical about saying XP is crap? Your comedy also evades me as well.

[WinterMute]

As info this thread was interesting, as a discussion it was (briefly) enlightening now it;s so far OT, I'm expecting G5 PowerBooks on Tuesday.

Taunting the Mods is NOT a good idea whatever they say, this is a privately owned forum, not a public talking shop.

Genuine discussion is always welcome, of course, and the progress of AMD, Intel et al should be of interest to all Apple devotees.

This is over.