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MacRumors
Nov 14, 2011, 12:17 PM
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Amazon's first color tablet, the Kindle Fire (http://www.amazon.com/Kindle-Fire-Amazon-Tablet/dp/B0051VVOB2/), began shipping today following its September introduction (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/09/28/amazon-set-to-unveil-199-kindle-fire-tablet/). The Fire, the top-of-the-line Kindle tablet, has reportedly given some potential iPad purchasers second thoughts (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/11/09/kindle-fire-seen-slowing-some-previously-planned-ipad-purchases/) as the Fire is some $300 cheaper than the least-expensive iPad.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/11/MG_13911-500x400.jpg

Image via Wired (http://www.wired.com/reviews/2011/11/kindle-fire/all/1)
- NYTimes (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/14/technology/personaltech/the-fire-aside-amazons-lower-priced-kindles-also-shine.html)
- "It is designed almost exclusively for consuming stuff, particularly material you buy from Amazon, like books, newspapers and video. It has no camera, microphone, GPS function, Bluetooth or memory-card slot. There is a serviceable e-mail program, but no built-in calendar or note pad."

- "You feel that $200 price tag with every swipe of your finger. Animations are sluggish and jerky -- even the page turns that you'd think would be the pride of the Kindle team. Taps sometimes don't register. There are no progress or "wait" indicators, so you frequently don't know if the machine has even registered your touch commands. The momentum of the animations hasn't been calculated right, so the whole thing feels ornery."

- "The Fire deserves to be a disruptive, gigantic force -- it's a cross between a Kindle and an iPad, a more compact Internet and video viewer at a great price. But at the moment, it needs a lot more polish; if you're used to an iPad or "real" Android tablet, its software gremlins will drive you nuts."- Wired (http://www.wired.com/reviews/2011/11/kindle-fire/)
- "Pixel for pixel, the tablet's 1024◊600 display actually delivers quite nice image quality. Swaddled in ultra-protective Gorilla Glass, the display uses in-plane switching (IPS) technology to deliver a bright, appropriately saturated screen image with solid off-axis viewing (meaning you can still see what's on screen when looking at the display from an exaggerated angle)."

- "As far as performance, all the apps I tested worked fine on Amazon's hardware -- as well they should have, because not only have they been pre-approved by Amazon, they were also designed for Android smartphones, which (theoretically) boast less processing power."

- "Despite all claims from Amazon that its Silk browser technology (http://amazonsilk.wordpress.com/) would bring sublime web-surfing performance to the Fire's desktop, I found the tablet's overall web experience to be quite ratty."- Mashable (http://mashable.com/2011/11/14/amazon-kindle-fire-review/)
- "This is a product I wanted to love. The Kindle Fire's unveiling was so impressive. Jeff Bezos hitting all the right notes in true Jobsian fashion, telling the tale of a product vision so clear it made my eyes tear up. Instead, now I'm discovering it's a somewhat flawed gadget -- a product that literally does not always know which way is up."

- "This interface is not always optimized for 1024◊600 resolution on a 7-inch screen. While the bookshelf and items on it are large, some of the controls are tiny."

- "It is the closest tablet I've seen yet to an Apple iPad: a consistent, well-thought out marriage of hardware and services that offer an almost frictionless environment for app purchase and content consumption. This is why the iPad has been so successful and why I think the Kindle Fire, despite its imperfections, is a winner, too."- The Verge (http://www.theverge.com/2011/11/14/2560084/kindle-fire-review)
- "It's been speculated on (and more recently stated as fact by Barnes & Noble) that Amazon used the [BlackBerry] PlayBook reference design as the basis for the design of the Fire, and I wouldn't be surprised if that were true. Don't get me wrong, it's not that the design is necessarily bad -- it's just that it's incredibly unoriginal."

- "Unlike the PlayBook, iPad, or pretty much any other tablet on the market, the Fire has no hardware volume controls, meaning that you have to go through a series of taps (especially if the device is sleeping) to just change the volume. The Fire also has no "home" button -- simply a small, hard-to-find nub along the bottom used for sleeping and waking the device, and powering up and down."

- "I found magazine reading to be a little cramped on the small display, and zooming and panning around lacks a smoothness that would make the experience more enjoyable."- Andy Ihnatko, Chicago Sun-Times (http://www.suntimes.com/technology/ihnatko/8816567-452/review-kindle-fire-is-no-ipad-killer-but-it-is-a-killer-device.html)
- "Kindle Fire is explicitly a device for enjoying books, periodicals, music, video, and games. But it can also handle the sort of computer-ish tasks that are often necessary distractions when you spend an hour or two in a coffeeshop reading a book. Things like checking email, looking something up on the Web, or telling your Twitter and Facebook friends that this dude who just walked into the coffeeshop has the most awesome mane of heavy metal hair spotted in the wild since Poison concluded their '86-'87 "Look What The Cat Dragged In" tour."

- "The reader app lacks the lovely little flourishes found in an iPad book reader. Page turns are mechanical, with little thought to transitions or interactions. When you're reading content that benefits from a little manual panning and zooming (like the contents of a webpage, a PDF, or a hard-formatted digital magazine), the experience is very Android-ish. Effective, yes, but not anything like the instantaneous liquid feedback you get from an iPad."

- "Steve Jobs, in the middle of lambasting 7-inch tablets as an utter disaster, insisted that they could only work if the box included enough sandpaper to grind down the user's fingertips to half their normal size. Well, that's just rubbish. All around, the Fire is as good a reader as the iPad. The two different screen sizes are just better in different scenarios."The Kindle Fire is $199, available now (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0051VVOB2/ref=nosim/linkcode-20) from Amazon.

Article Link: Roundup of Early Kindle Fire Reviews (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/11/14/roundup-of-early-kindle-fire-reviews/)



Whaditis
Nov 14, 2011, 12:21 PM
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Predictable

gkarris
Nov 14, 2011, 12:24 PM
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well what a surprise

*LTD*
Nov 14, 2011, 12:25 PM
Once again, we get the "it's good, but it's no iPad" attitude.

Which in the tablet market, usually means the beginning of the end.

campingsk8er
Nov 14, 2011, 12:30 PM
As much as I love the iPad and Apple, I kinda actually wanted this product to work for Amazon. They are a great company and [normally] make good products. I'm kinda disappointed this was a flop.

D4F
Nov 14, 2011, 12:33 PM
I wasn't aware that kindle is runnin on iOS5...:rolleyes:

----------

As much as I love the iPad and Apple, I kinda actually wanted this product to work for Amazon. They are a great company and [normally] make good products. I'm kinda disappointed this was a flop.

Where does it say it's a flop?
You got sales numbers?
Customer satisfaction reports?

scbn
Nov 14, 2011, 12:36 PM
For those who got used to the ease of use of iOS products, the kindle fire would be a big disappointment. There is a reason why it's so cheap.

On this other hand, I think it's a mistake if Apple continues to ignore the 7 inch markets; there needs to be something between an iPad and ipod touch.

RodThePlod
Nov 14, 2011, 12:37 PM
As much as I love the iPad and Apple, I kinda actually wanted this product to work for Amazon. They are a great company and [normally] make good products. I'm kinda disappointed this was a flop.

Well - it's not a flop yet. But we know what you mean. I guess it's only a 1.0 product - so I'm sure Amazon are aware of these flaws and will look to address them soon enough.

Having said that, though, they better get their skates on - especially if Apple will be revealing the 3rd generation iPad in the next few months...

RTP.

Tiger8
Nov 14, 2011, 12:48 PM
I still rock a Kindle 3 and I think it's a great product. Hey, I hope this one works. Not everyone has $500+ to spend on a tablet and people deserve a semi-decent machine (rather than the hacks at this pricepoint).

(Still holding out for iPad 3 :) )

MacRumorUser
Nov 14, 2011, 12:50 PM
It will be more interesting to see how the new Nook Tablet and the Kindle Fire compare rather than the iPad to the Kindle Fire.

nagromme
Nov 14, 2011, 12:55 PM
Now imagine an Apple product with those same problems, and see if reviewers would be even that gentle!

I still like the Kindle platform as a whole, though, and I wish I had a reason to get one of the super-light e-ink versions: I don’t like how dark the white e-ink “paper” is at present, but ther’e something cool about them all the same! (Instead, I’m reading a Kindle book on my iPad right now :) Thanks, Amazon!)

Cheap dedicated e-readers will have a market for a nice long time; same with digital cameras, music players, and other low-cost special-use gizmos. They don’t have to be an iPad: they do a job.

nick219
Nov 14, 2011, 01:04 PM
basically it sucks

darbus69
Nov 14, 2011, 01:35 PM
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just read my first full length book on my iPad and was going to consider a kindle or fire, but not with these reviews-take the time to save the extra $200 and get an iPad...(read the book Born to Run by Chris Mcdougall, it SHOULD change your life!)

Laird Knox
Nov 14, 2011, 01:43 PM
Once again, we get the "it's good, but it's no iPad" attitude.

Which in the tablet market, usually means the beginning of the end.

"Usually," but in this case I expect the Fire will be sticking around. As long as Amazon doesn't panic and pull an HP I expect the Fire will grow to be a compelling platform.

Personally I would go with an e-ink Kindle for half the price.

Jessica Lares
Nov 14, 2011, 01:48 PM
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If it wasn't mostly negative, I don't think MR would have posted these reviews. Go figure.

kainjow
Nov 14, 2011, 01:50 PM
A positive review from MSNBC:

Kindle Fire review: Yes, it's that good (http://technolog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/14/8790557-kindle-fire-review-yes-its-that-good)

So while we're on the subject of iPad, let's have the talk. No, the Kindle Fire is not anywhere close to being the precision machine that the iPad 2 is. There are no cameras and no microphone. The Fire's screen is half the size of the iPad's, and the Fire's battery life isn't as good, yet the Fire is still a hair thicker. The Fire interface, while seductively simple, lacks the nuances — the futuristic animations and fades — that keep Apple on top.

But for Apple, this still spells trouble. The Kindle Fire can handle about 80 percent of what I want to do on an iPad, for 40 percent of the price. And much of what's missing won't be missing for long. Even if you can justify buying one iPad, you may look to the Fire as a second device in your high-tech home. And if you can't justify an iPad this holiday season, you might consider Amazon's alternative.

Jessica Lares
Nov 14, 2011, 02:02 PM
This means trouble for Netflix too, if you think about it. My Amazon Prime is only $39 a year since I'm a student and have 6-months free. It's $79 for everyone else. That means you only pay like $7 a month. Netflix just bumped up their prices.

applesith
Nov 14, 2011, 02:03 PM
They are so kind to its many shortcomings. No one was really expecting much. After all, you get what you pay for. And the $200 is a loss for Amazon.

FuNGi
Nov 14, 2011, 02:06 PM
A positive review from MSNBC:

Kindle Fire review: Yes, it's that good (http://technolog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/14/8790557-kindle-fire-review-yes-its-that-good)

"The Kindle Fire can handle about 80 percent of what I want to do on an iPad, for 40 percent of the price. And much of what's missing won't be missing for long."

- You just have a 50% worse user experience to contend with ...:rolleyes: No thanks. I'd rather read a book on my kindle iphone app.

kevinkt
Nov 14, 2011, 02:16 PM
As much as I love the iPad and Apple, I kinda actually wanted this product to work for Amazon. They are a great company and [normally] make good products. I'm kinda disappointed this was a flop.

So what if they are a good company?? They don't deserve ur empathy at this moment lol

TheOrioles33
Nov 14, 2011, 02:22 PM
So the moral of the story kids? You get what you pay for.

Yvan256
Nov 14, 2011, 02:25 PM
I'm still more interested in those e-ink readers, just so I can carry PDFs of datasheets around.

Kaibelf
Nov 14, 2011, 02:30 PM
It will be more interesting to see how the new Nook Tablet and the Kindle Fire compare rather than the iPad to the Kindle Fire.

THANK YOU. Why do people keep comparing this vastly different device to the iPad when there are plenty of other tablets that match the size, functionality, and overall offering a million times more. What's next? "That's a cute baby you had, but it's not Jesus." :rolleyes:

GenesisJLS
Nov 14, 2011, 02:36 PM
People want the best quality product, not a mediocre imitator.

zipster
Nov 14, 2011, 02:37 PM
The Amazon Kindle Fire is sure to be popular this holiday season among parents who always buy the wrong thing.

1080p
Nov 14, 2011, 02:45 PM
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I am so glad I came to MacRumors today for this vital piece of Apple news.

Xenomorph
Nov 14, 2011, 02:59 PM
Like I've seen others say, I'm more interested in the new Nook Tablet. Twice the RAM (and more buttons) than the Kindle Fire.

I have a Nook Color and an HP TouchPad (in addition to my iPad 2). The Nook Color gets daily use, and the HP TouchPad just sits.

I got the TouchPad because of the fire-sale, and because of the hope it would get the love the Nook Color has received. It has beefier hardware, but that has mostly gone unused.

If the Nook Tablet comes out with all the power of the TouchPad, in the lovable 7" form-factor and all the tweak-ability of the original Nook Color, then I may sell both my Nook Color and the HP TouchPad and get the Nook Tablet.

The Kindle Fire? It may sell a lot. Initial reviews didn't seem that great, and the fact that it's missing buttons and an SD card slot don't help.

johnytwobax
Nov 14, 2011, 03:12 PM
The Amazon Kindle Fire is sure to be popular this holiday season among parents who always buy the wrong thing.

Mind including your source on that quote? Or at least include quotation marks...

striker33
Nov 14, 2011, 03:19 PM
Never judge an android device till it has a custom rom on it.

If someone manages to get say, CM7, working on it, it'd be awesome.

Lightey
Nov 14, 2011, 03:22 PM
I love how you guys pick the ****** parts of the reviews.

Whoever wrote this is an obvious Apple fanboy and is ******** that the iPad isn't an e-reader.

hobo.hopkins
Nov 14, 2011, 03:22 PM
I wasn't aware that kindle is runnin on iOS5...:rolleyes:

----------



Where does it say it's a flop?
You got sales numbers?
Customer satisfaction reports?

I'm sure he meant with the reviewers; calm down about it.

I hope that they can improve this, if for no other reason than to incentivise Apple to lower the price of the iPad or really load up the feature set in the next revision.


I love how you guys pick the ****** parts of the reviews.

Whoever wrote this is an obvious Apple fanboy and is ******** that the iPad isn't an e-reader.

Imagine that...a fan of Apple writing on MACRUMORS. Judging from your post, I'd say you were the one who is a little "********" by this article.

Prodo123
Nov 14, 2011, 03:25 PM
Once again, we get the "it's good, but it's no iPad" attitude.

Which in the tablet market, usually means the beginning of the end.

It's no iPad, but it's $200.

marksman
Nov 14, 2011, 03:27 PM
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I was really hoping for something from the fire. Seems where they feel down is in what they had.

As apple has shown you can leave features and items out of your products as long as the ones you include work extremely well.

They had to cut things out to get to the price point but the problem is it seems the stuff left is not highly polished and that will be a problem.

dBeats
Nov 14, 2011, 03:29 PM
Waa waa waa waaaaaaaaaa. You Lose!

Yamcha
Nov 14, 2011, 03:46 PM
A bit disappointing based on those reviews.. I had high expectations, even though it's missing many features I kinda thought it would deliver in terms of performance, but If it's sluggish I don't think its worth investing $200 on..

You know even having used an iPad, I think the best tablet out there is the Playbook.. That is if you like the experience you find on a Laptop or Desktop, I'd say with confidence the Playbook is the only tablet that gives you closest experience to what you see on a desktop..

QAZWSXEDCRFV
Nov 14, 2011, 03:46 PM
The Amazon Kindle Fire is sure to be popular this holiday season among parents who always buy the wrong thing.

+1

However, if people cant afford the hefty price tag of the iPad, i guess its an option, or just get a credit card! haha

xibis
Nov 14, 2011, 03:51 PM
My kindle fire is on it's way to my house. Not loving what i'm seeing on first impressions so this may end up on ebay because I would imagine the week before christmas this will be one hot item.

gatearray
Nov 14, 2011, 03:52 PM
"The Kindle Fire can handle about 80 percent of what I want to do on an iPad, for 40 percent of the price. And much of what's missing won't be missing for long."

- You just have a 50% worse user experience to contend with ...:rolleyes: No thanks. I'd rather read a book on my kindle iphone app.

And let's not forget, half the storage space as the iPad (8gb vs 16gb).

Consultant
Nov 14, 2011, 04:05 PM
Keep in mind that you can score a 16GB iPad with 10 hour battery life from Apple refurb for as low as $299.

Laird Knox
Nov 14, 2011, 04:09 PM
Never judge an android device till it has a custom rom on it.

If someone manages to get say, CM7, working on it, it'd be awesome.

And therein lies one of the biggest problems for me with Android. I don't want to mess around with it to get it working reasonably well. I've spent plenty of years tinkering and now wish to spend my time on other pursuits. Some people enjoy custom ROMs and tweaking settings but I'm over it.

matt90036
Nov 14, 2011, 04:14 PM
honestly you will be better off getting refub iPod touch for $179, not only you will get huge app support but also $20 bucks for movies and books. of course watching a movie on a 7 inch screen will be better experience kindle fire.

daxomni
Nov 14, 2011, 04:23 PM
Once again, we get the "it's good, but it's no iPad" attitude. Which in the tablet market, usually means the beginning of the end.
The end of Apple's desire to further innovate beyond a $500 low-res content consumption device?

Ugg
Nov 14, 2011, 04:38 PM
A positive review from MSNBC:

Kindle Fire review: Yes, it's that good (http://technolog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/14/8790557-kindle-fire-review-yes-its-that-good)

For me and I think many others as well, the camera and the GPS are very important. I don't think I could make the Fire work for me.

roadbloc
Nov 14, 2011, 04:44 PM
Interesting how MR picked out all the bad reviews. Many sites including Gizmodo have more positive things to say about the Kindle Fire.

I think it has a place in the tablet market. A well thought out low-end tablet and e-reader for them who are unwilling to fork out the £400 for an iPad.

striker33
Nov 14, 2011, 04:48 PM
And therein lies one of the biggest problems for me with Android. I don't want to mess around with it to get it working reasonably well. I've spent plenty of years tinkering and now wish to spend my time on other pursuits. Some people enjoy custom ROMs and tweaking settings but I'm over it.

Its not a problem with Android at all.

The problem lies with companies modifying android and putting their crapware over the top of it. Companies such as Orange are notorious for ruining phones with their bloatware and changing the appearance of the UI. So far its only Samsung who have actually managed to get it right.

Theres nothing wrong with the normal Android UI. Dont understand why so many companies want to change it.

paul4339
Nov 14, 2011, 04:57 PM
it's not the device that counts (in this case) - devices can be made better over time and the problems can be worked out and features can be added.

It's the quality assurance that matters for Amazon in this case.

So far we only have some reviews, but if Amazon is considered a quality service, by releasing a product that doesn't meet user expectations (or inconsistent) it reflect poorly on the whole company.


For example, Apple won't let crap out the door - yes they have somtimes have problems, but they tend to release solid products over and over again, which reflects on their reputation and sets consumer expectations.


Reading books, Amazon cloud and the Silk browsing are what Amazon is betting on and promoted... they have to ensure that these works extremely well.



Otherwise, if you begin to release crap, you start looking like crap.


.

Laird Knox
Nov 14, 2011, 05:10 PM
And therein lies one of the biggest problems for me with Android. I don't want to mess around with it to get it working reasonably well. I've spent plenty of years tinkering and now wish to spend my time on other pursuits. Some people enjoy custom ROMs and tweaking settings but I'm over it.

Its not a problem with Android at all.

The problem lies with companies modifying android and putting their crapware over the top of it. Companies such as Orange are notorious for ruining phones with their bloatware and changing the appearance of the UI. So far its only Samsung who have actually managed to get it right.

Theres nothing wrong with the normal Android UI. Dont understand why so many companies want to change it.
That's a bit of picking nits but the base argument is sound. I don't want to dink with the ROMs. Does it really matter if that is because of Google, Orange or Amazon?

There is a great community for hacking the ROMs and I think that is fantastic. I'm just saying I'm not interested in dealing with that. Now there is always a chance I might want to use an Android device to power some project but that's a hack beyond basic functionality.

Doc750
Nov 14, 2011, 05:59 PM
man these reviews are a bit disappointing. I was really looking forward to getting mine in the mail tomorrow. I hope the rooting process comes out with in 30 days, before the return period is up on this.

djrobsd
Nov 14, 2011, 06:48 PM
Doesn't look good for Amazon here. Glad I scored a TouchPad. The TouchPad is as close to an iPad as any tablet I've ever played with, and the fact that I can run both WebOS and Android is a huge score too!!

*LTD*
Nov 14, 2011, 07:15 PM
Never judge an android device till it has a custom rom on it.

If someone manages to get say, CM7, working on it, it'd be awesome.

A what?

Rome?? I was there last year. Had some great pizza.

Signed,

Joe Average.

----------

it's not the device that counts (in this case) - devices can be made better over time and the problems can be worked out and features can be added.

Tell that to RIM, Motorola, HP.

Time is something players don't really have in this market. You either take the segment by storm and really redefine things, or you're facing an uphill battle. The Apple device in the segment doesn't really help.

steve knight
Nov 14, 2011, 07:22 PM
comparing this to a ipad is pointless. it is almost 1/3 the price. Most of the people that buy it will never have used or may not even heard of a ipad. so it is pointless to compare the two.

macguy59
Nov 14, 2011, 07:30 PM
pouring in. You'll read the same comments about the laggy UI. If anyone bothered to really watch the Fire demo's, you see everything mentioned. You see the exact same things in the Nook tablet demo. And if you pay close attention, the Nook tablet doesn't quite get the color white right. I understand that modders are giddy over the Nook's ability to be easily rooted but the target audience for the Fire would have ZERO idea what you're talking about nor would they care. Is it easy to use ? Check. Will it do what I need ? Probably (but that's pretty much the standard answer for any tablet). Is it reasonably priced ? Yep. Does it have apps ? Yep. And about the amount of storage . . . I seem to recall a recent survey (or 2) of people with iPads about where/how they are using them. An overwhelming percentage of the respondents indicated they primary use it at HOME. If it's being used primarily at home, are you consuming media that's stored on the device or is it being streamed ? Think about it. Now I have no problem with anyone wanting greater storage. Especially if they are using the device primarily AWAY from home. Personally, The first iPad I bought was the 64GB model because it had been drilled into my head that more is better. I need it ! In reality I didn't need it. Not even 1/4 of that. I went with the 16GB version of iPad 2. After putting a couple of movies on it, a few CD's worth of music, a bunch of pictures and 3 pages of apps I still have 11GB of storage left. Of course YMMV but people really need to stop and think about what they do or intend to do with the device rather than what someone else say's you need to do.

SoxFan23
Nov 14, 2011, 07:55 PM
This is a good case of selective evidence on the part of Macrumors. The majority of reviews I read today said positive things about the Kindle Fire 90% of the time (cnet, engadget, etc). It appears to meet expectations. I find it unfortunate that just because this is a site dedicated to Apple products the bias has to be that obvious over another product that is clearly going to cut into Apple sales and is stealing some thunder. It's not designed to be an ipad people. It's a $199 media consumption machine designed to do what 80% of people are looking for a tablet to do (i.e. check email, browse internet, watch movies, and have some apps for some games & such). When the 1st generation ipad came out I could have made it look like the worst product ever by cutting and pasting paragraphs of 6 reviews that focused on the negative things. This is not a "flop," it doesn't "suck," and it's certainly not "the beginning of the end." It's a 1st generation product, a category-creater, and will be incredibly successful because of both the price and the Amazon ecosystem. I love Apple products, but you fanboys don't have to get all apocalyptic on a product when it will obviously have success. There's room for both products to flourish in the free market, and a little competition for the ipad (those who think this won't hurt ipad sales are dreaming) will only be a good thing.

Macrumors, in order to stay reputable I would encourage you not to pull stuff like this anymore. Anyone who reads a few of these reviews you've selected from in their entirety would see how selective you were in what you put. I expected more from you guys and this is not the Macrumors I have read over the past 4 years. Honesty is a virtue that the consumer appreciates.

SandynJosh
Nov 14, 2011, 08:50 PM
"Usually," but in this case I expect the Fire will be sticking around. As long as Amazon doesn't panic and pull an HP I expect the Fire will grow to be a compelling platform.

Personally I would go with an e-ink Kindle for half the price.

I agree. The Fire will help Amazon sell their products like nothing else around, and that's exactly what it was made to do. I'd be surprised if Amazon added any new features like camera, GPS, faster processor, etc. As long as it is cheap enough to bring in more customers, it's good enough.

What the fire does, in my thinking is several things:

1. It lowers the price of a second-rate product so far that there's no room for other tablet manufacturers to make money trying to be an iPad mee-too. It cleans house of the whole herd.

2. For a couple hundred bucks people will see that there really is a gulf between what an iPad can deliver vs another brand. It fills that low-end niche really well and builds a hunger for the real thing when someone decides to make the jump to an iPad. Buyers are less likely to try a baby step up.

3. People get a feel for what using a tablet is like. It's like learning to play music on a horribly cheap guitar. You get to learn what a fine instrument brings to the experience. It will help bring more people to tablets that have developed a sense of discrimination.

If a person likes a hurky-jerky tablet that lets them read books and magazines and buy crap on-line from Amazon, then they will be happy. If they thirst for anything more, they will have gotten the "go cheap" bug out of their azz.

SandynJosh
Nov 14, 2011, 09:10 PM
This is a good case of selective evidence on the part of Macrumors.

<shortened to prevent reader exhaustion>

I love Apple products, but you fanboys don't have to get all apocalyptic on a product when it will obviously have success. There's room for both products to flourish in the free market, and a little competition for the ipad (those who think this won't hurt ipad sales are dreaming) will only be a good thing.

Macrumors, in order to stay reputable I would encourage you not to pull stuff like this anymore. Anyone who reads a few of these reviews you've selected from in their entirety would see how selective you were in what you put. I expected more from you guys and this is not the Macrumors I have read over the past 4 years. Honesty is a virtue that the consumer appreciates.

First off, welcome to the forum. Glad to see you jump in with both feet.

Secondly, lay off the caffeine for a while before you post. You may have hurt your keyboard pounding out that rant.

I think the Fire will be bought by some people that wanted a reader and were thinking of the iPad for that purpose, so some sales will go to the Fire that would have gone to Apple. Then there are folks that will buy Holiday gifts that draw the line at $200, cross the iPad off their list and pencil in a Fire. Some people will buy a Fire thinking it's almost the same as an iPad. Watch the garage sales next Spring.

However, as I pointed out in a recent post, I really think the Fire will energize the tablet market, leading to a broader acceptance of tablets, and thereby generate a greater fallout for Apple they they will lose to the Fire.

I think the Fire is good enough to bring more people to tablets and not so bad as to turn them off. It has utility, and if Amazon never improves it, it will still continue to sell and indirectly make a lot of money to Amazon. If they improve it, and I'm sure they will, it will likely never be a direct threat to the iPad, but still do what Amazon intended it to do: bring in customers.

SandynJosh
Nov 14, 2011, 09:26 PM
It's no iPad, but it's $200.

You could have bought two HP CrapPads for $200. :)

A roll of duct tape and two Fires, you will have the same screen size as an iPad, but then you still wouldn't have an iPad but paid the same.

The Fire may actually affect the sale of the iPod Touch the most...but then again, maybe not, the iPod Touch still out-performs the Fire, has tons more apps and is more portable. Both are like reading a magazine through a keyhole in MHO.

Prodo123
Nov 14, 2011, 09:31 PM
You could have bought two HP CrapPads for $200. :)

A roll of duct tape and two Fires, you will have the same screen size as an iPad, but then you still wouldn't have an iPad but paid the same.

The Fire may actually affect the sale of the iPod Touch the most...but then again, maybe not, the iPod Touch still out-performs the Fire, has tons more apps and is more portable. Both are like reading a magazine through a keyhole in MHO.

Rofl! The TouchPad is not crap; that just shows your bias towards Apple products.

Also, it is discontinued, while the Fire is new and has a better GUI.
The point of having a 7" tablet is because a 10" one like the iPad may be too big to carry around. The iPod Touch does NOT outperform the Fire by a long shot, and is for an entirely different purpose. You're comparing apples to oranges (no pun intended).
Of course reading a magazine on an iPod Touch is like reading through a keyhole. The Fire has 4x the real estate of the iPod Touch's 3.5" screen. It's not small at all, and has a better pixel density than the iPad. In fact, it's a lesser strain on your eyes because the DPI is much higher than the iPad.

Also, the cheapest iPod Touch has 4x lesser screen, lesser performance, and lesser usability as a tablet than the Fire at the same price point. It absolutely sucks compared to the Fire.

Yaboze
Nov 14, 2011, 09:35 PM
If I was in the market for just a Kindle device, I'd get this, it actually looks kinda nice. I almost wish there was 7" iPad.

I love my iPad 2, but I think the Fire will be more popular with book readers and kindle fans than people who want a tablet. I know a lot of people that still have the black and white Kindle and have no interest in an iPad or Apple's App Store.

SoxFan23
Nov 14, 2011, 10:02 PM
First off, welcome to the forum. Glad to see you jump in with both feet.

<deleted because too wordy>

If they improve it, and I'm sure they will, it will likely never be a direct threat to the iPad, but still do what Amazon intended it to do: bring in customers.

After your last couple of posts I find your words to me incredibly ironic. Pot, meet kettle

Illumination
Nov 14, 2011, 10:43 PM
I agree. The Fire will help Amazon sell their products like nothing else around, and that's exactly what it was made to do. I'd be surprised if Amazon added any new features like camera, GPS, faster processor, etc. As long as it is cheap enough to bring in more customers, it's good enough.

What the fire does, in my thinking is several things:

1. It lowers the price of a second-rate product so far that there's no room for other tablet manufacturers to make money trying to be an iPad mee-too. It cleans house of the whole herd.

2. For a couple hundred bucks people will see that there really is a gulf between what an iPad can deliver vs another brand. It fills that low-end niche really well and builds a hunger for the real thing when someone decides to make the jump to an iPad. Buyers are less likely to try a baby step up.

3. People get a feel for what using a tablet is like. It's like learning to play music on a horribly cheap guitar. You get to learn what a fine instrument brings to the experience. It will help bring more people to tablets that have developed a sense of discrimination.

If a person likes a hurky-jerky tablet that lets them read books and magazines and buy crap on-line from Amazon, then they will be happy. If they thirst for anything more, they will have gotten the "go cheap" bug out of their azz.

Wow. The amount of irony and hypocrisy in this post is just sad.

Kaibelf
Nov 14, 2011, 11:36 PM
Rofl! The TouchPad is not crap; that just shows your bias towards Apple products.

Whoa. Seriously? Every review I EVER read about the touchpad said it was marginally okay, underwhelming, felt cheaply-made, and was very buggy. And no, don't ask me for citations. Google it yourself.

BeardedOrc
Nov 14, 2011, 11:40 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3)

We knew its never gonna be as fast as iPad.

We knew iPad can do more.

Question is, is it good enough for your needs? Is it worth the price they are asking for it?

No review would be able to answer this question except yourself.

thaimac
Nov 15, 2011, 01:14 AM
Put it simply, you get what you pay for!

MacFly123
Nov 15, 2011, 01:44 AM
For those who got used to the ease of use of iOS products, the kindle fire would be a big disappointment. There is a reason why it's so cheap.

On this other hand, I think it's a mistake if Apple continues to ignore the 7 inch markets; there needs to be something between an iPad and ipod touch.

Dude just over year ago people laughed at there being a category between a smart phone and computer, and now you want to shove a second in there??? lol. I'm not saying some people wouldn't go for the 7" form factor, but I think that is getting much too meta and niche! I think the points that Steve made about 7" tablets are very valid! Yes, I have played with 7" tablets, and yes I have given the entire topic a lot of thought and reflection from all angles. I think anyone that does will arrive at the same conclusion Steve did. Hence the reason he was quite emphatic about it. His track record isn't what it is by luck!

----------

Rofl! The TouchPad is not crap; that just shows your bias towards Apple products.

Whoa. Seriously? Every review I EVER read about the touchpad said it was marginally okay, underwhelming, felt cheaply-made, and was very buggy. And no, don't ask me for citations. Google it yourself.

I have 2 TouchPads and they have some cool features and a lot of potential with webOS but overall they don't even come close to the iPad in any way!

LaCosta
Nov 15, 2011, 04:39 AM
Here is a pretty good look into the Fire. They even had one physically to test out.

I am somewhat interested in the 7 inch form factor. Wish Apple would release the mini in the future ad an option. Consumes less table space while multitasking. Hold the tablet in a single hand. Some times just dont need the screen size when you have other gadgets.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/14/hamazon-kindle-fire-review/?ref=mostpopular

D4F
Nov 15, 2011, 05:39 AM
Macrumors is on apples payroll now.
Such a shame.

Sinequanon83
Nov 15, 2011, 06:50 AM
Rofl! The TouchPad is not crap; that just shows your bias towards Apple products.

Also, it is discontinued, while the Fire is new and has a better GUI.
The point of having a 7" tablet is because a 10" one like the iPad may be too big to carry around. The iPod Touch does NOT outperform the Fire by a long shot, and is for an entirely different purpose. You're comparing apples to oranges (no pun intended).
Of course reading a magazine on an iPod Touch is like reading through a keyhole. The Fire has 4x the real estate of the iPod Touch's 3.5" screen. It's not small at all, and has a better pixel density than the iPad. In fact, it's a lesser strain on your eyes because the DPI is much higher than the iPad.

Also, the cheapest iPod Touch has 4x lesser screen, lesser performance, and lesser usability as a tablet than the Fire at the same price point. It absolutely sucks compared to the Fire.
You know this how, exactly? This was posted on November 14th. The Fire releases on the 15th. Unless you're a reviewer, you've got zero hands-on experience with the Fire to compare things like usability or eye strain.

(You also jump around between attacking the iPad and the iPod Touch when convenient, such as noting the larger-than-the-iPod-Touch screen, but then jumping to the iPad when talking about pixel density. Curious.)

samcraig
Nov 15, 2011, 06:56 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3)

We knew its never gonna be as fast as iPad.

We knew iPad can do more.

Question is, is it good enough for your needs? Is it worth the price they are asking for it?

No review would be able to answer this question except yourself.

If I could +100 you, i would.

Those comparing it or knocking the Fire because it isn't as big, slick, fast, etc as an iPad are missing the entire point. Amazon has created a device with a STRONG ecosystem that fills a marketplace niche that the iPad doesn't. It's a media consumption device and very portable which is less expensive than investing in an iPad. It's really not complicated.

Not everyone wants to spend $499+ on a device if all they do is read, watch videos, listen to music and facebook/email. Sure a great interface and UI is important. But for many people around the world - 499 is expensive for a luxury item. at 199 - even if you consider it crippled - it does a lot and for many people - it will be great.

It's also a generation 1 product and will no doubt be improved upon/have OS updates.

So in short - it doesn't matter whether the iPad is the gold standard or not. If you can't afford it, don't need to spend that much or have no need for the Apple ecosystem when you're already invested in Amazon's - the Fire is a great product for many.

Further - I continue to be baffled by some posters on here who seem to only want Apple to succeed and to control all media, etc. I can't think of anything worse than any company having that kind of dominance/monopoly. As a consumer - that would be a very bad thing.

justperry
Nov 15, 2011, 08:05 AM
Further - I continue to be baffled by some posters on here who seem to only want Apple to succeed and to control all media, etc. I can't think of anything worse than any company having that kind of dominance/monopoly. As a consumer - that would be a very bad thing.

Apple's 1984 Add comes to my mind.

I want Apple to do fine but I am concerned they are just doing what they despised so much back then.

JRoDDz
Nov 15, 2011, 08:19 AM
Surprise! It's not an iPad. :eek:

What it is, is a $200 device that can do 80% of what an iPad can do at 40% of the price. Win Win situation all around for end users and for Amazon getting people on their ecosystem.

imotionb18
Nov 15, 2011, 08:25 AM
I'm was really close to pre-ordering the fire to give as an christmas gift, but decided against it. If it had an expansion slot then I would have ordered one, but 8gb just isn't enough.

mkrishnan
Nov 15, 2011, 08:45 AM
I'm was really close to pre-ordering the fire to give as an christmas gift, but decided against it. If it had an expansion slot then I would have ordered one, but 8gb just isn't enough.

If I had wifi at my workplace, I would order one. If I at least had cell reception at my workplace, I'd get an iPad instead. As I am... well... there's really no reason to replace my aging Kindle 2 at the moment, and my netbook and iPhone (finally ordered my 4S) will tide me over. :(

The initial reviews are interesting. Meanwhile, on the internet, the push intensifies for everyone to make their opinions on it more and more firm even though basically no one on MacRumors has touched a Kindle Fire. :p

ivan2002
Nov 15, 2011, 10:05 AM
Amazon is trying to cash in on the value of their brand, but if this thing is as bad as these reviews say it is, it will only end up damaging the brand.

They should have stuck to E Ink. This way, they've let their greed erode the image of their competency.

jayducharme
Nov 15, 2011, 10:10 AM
The Amazon Kindle Fire is sure to be popular this holiday season among parents who always buy the wrong thing.

LOL! Sad but true. And for all the people who keep moaning about no 7" form factor for an iPad:

the Kindleís 7-inch screen is still too small for any semblance of an immersive reading experience

Unless it has a "retina display," that small a device would probably produce a lot of eye strain.

Hastings101
Nov 15, 2011, 10:10 AM
Doesn't seem like a flop to me, overall the reviews were pretty decent. Obviously it won't beat the iPad in sales but I think it will fare better than the other Android tablets, plus it has Amazon backing it so it shouldn't just fall into obscurity like the Xoom.

Berk Thomas
Nov 15, 2011, 10:11 AM
You know, guys, I don't think Amazon cares about the iPad. The Kindle Fire is a high end Kindle that allows you to do things that the previous Kindles couldn't do.

Obviously, there is a market for Kindles. It's a different demographic: people who like to read. And I doubt that many people here fit into that demographic. The device is designed to make the content consumption experience easy, fun, and seamless. Kindles do that.

Like anything else, the first version is mainly proof of concept. That's why they came out with the high-end black and white devices at the same time (5th gen). I suspect Kindle Fire 2.0 is going to kick ass.

AppleHater
Nov 15, 2011, 10:22 AM
pouring in. You'll read the same comments about the laggy UI. If anyone bothered to really watch the Fire demo's, you see everything mentioned. You see the exact same things in the Nook tablet demo. And if you pay close attention, the Nook tablet doesn't quite get the color white right. I understand that modders are giddy over the Nook's ability to be easily rooted but the target audience for the Fire would have ZERO idea what you're talking about nor would they care. Is it easy to use ? Check. Will it do what I need ? Probably (but that's pretty much the standard answer for any tablet). Is it reasonably priced ? Yep. Does it have apps ? Yep. And about the amount of storage . . . I seem to recall a recent survey (or 2) of people with iPads about where/how they are using them. An overwhelming percentage of the respondents indicated they primary use it at HOME. If it's being used primarily at home, are you consuming media that's stored on the device or is it being streamed ? Think about it. Now I have no problem with anyone wanting greater storage. Especially if they are using the device primarily AWAY from home. Personally, The first iPad I bought was the 64GB model because it had been drilled into my head that more is better. I need it ! In reality I didn't need it. Not even 1/4 of that. I went with the 16GB version of iPad 2. After putting a couple of movies on it, a few CD's worth of music, a bunch of pictures and 3 pages of apps I still have 11GB of storage left. Of course YMMV but people really need to stop and think about what they do or intend to do with the device rather than what someone else say's you need to do.
It's a great example of whether it's ok or the best. The very point Steve Jobs fought for in his entire life...no compromise and 'good enough'.

dasmb
Nov 15, 2011, 11:09 AM
the experience is very Android-ish

And thus a new adjective is created: Android-ish, meaning "operative, useful but lacking in feedback, polish or forethought of design."

Which, hey, is what I'd expect for $200. And I'd put "no transitions" as a major positive over the jarring, contrast swapping transitions of an e-ink device.

mrsir2009
Nov 15, 2011, 11:11 AM
I reckon they should have stuck with black n' white eBooks. I mean, I'd buy a regular kindle to read books on, but if I wanted anything more than books I'd buy an iPad.

BC2009
Nov 15, 2011, 11:36 AM
A positive review from MSNBC:

Kindle Fire review: Yes, it's that good (http://technolog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/14/8790557-kindle-fire-review-yes-its-that-good)

That quote that the Fire can do 80% of an iPad can do at 40% of the price is incorrect....

First off, the Fire costs $200, but if you want access to all that content you need an annual subscription to Amazon Prime at $79 per year. But even Bezos in an interview with Wired said that folks should also purchase an e-Ink Kindle because you want that for much of your reading. Let's break it down....

1) Movies: It is fun to watch movies on an iPad when you are traveling in the backseat of a car or an airplane or by loading up a bunch for vacation and playing them through the TV when you get there. With only 6GB usable of local storage and no 3G, the Fire is going to be grounded at home and all that cloud-based service is going to seem ineffective here. Let's face it, at home folks watch movies on their TVs because the screens are much bigger than 7-inch.

2) Books: The cheaper Kindle's really shine as e-readers because of the e-Ink. The size of the fire may make it a tad more enjoyable for reading than the iPad, but the reviews seem to indicate a choppy experience for Kindle usage in 1.0.

3) Magazines: The Fire is a tad small for magazines (much pinch and zoom). The other downside is many electronic magazines take up a great deal of storage, so you can't have too many subscriptions on the go. Not to mention, without 3G those interactive embedded videos and such may be unavailable.

4) Music: Nobody cares about music on a tablet. This is a checkmark feature, but we have iPods and smartphones for that.

5) Games: Just like music, there are better solutions than a 7-inch tablet to run mobile games -- especially if you are not getting the graphics horsepower of an iPad. Any smartphone can run Angry Birds.

6) Couch Surfing: This is where the Fire should do well. It sounds like the browser is a bit sluggish in the 1.0 release from the reviews, but one would hope that Amazon would work those things out.

So there you have it.... For $200 you can effectively do couch surfing and e-book reading. You can pay $79 more per year for movies that you can only access on WiFi (and hotel room WiFi is usually insufficient).

Personally, I think the Fire will sell like crazy this Christmas at that price. But I think it will be similar to the economy Android tablets that sold well last Christmas. The buyers will likely be less-than-delighted with their new toy.

Once Fire gets a modified version of Ice Cream Sandwich it should be improved -- give it a revision or two.

PsstGreek
Nov 15, 2011, 11:52 AM
I got my Kindle Fire today I must say (besides the dead pixel on the screen already, Amazon is sending me another one), it's a pretty decent device.

It's a bit heavy but fits well in my hands.

Navdakilla
Nov 15, 2011, 12:49 PM
The iPad will keep on winning, even with this out everyone and their momma's want the iPad

criminal
Nov 15, 2011, 01:00 PM
I see no reason to compare the Fire to the iPad. They are in completely different price segments. The Fire and the Nook Tablet will sell well and people like me that would never consider an iPad due to price, will never doubt their purchase.

FYI.. I have played with two different iPads extensively on two different occasions and never understood the "hype" surrounding them.

blipper
Nov 15, 2011, 01:50 PM
man these reviews are a bit disappointing. I was really looking forward to getting mine in the mail tomorrow. I hope the rooting process comes out with in 30 days, before the return period is up on this.

I got mine first thing this morning. I think it's ok and I love the form factor, which is big, but not so big you can't easily hold it in the palm of one hand. I think it will replace the iPad as my first choice reader.

Some of the reviews quoted seem inaccurate but I have to look further and see if I'm misinterpreting their assertions.

----------

That quote that the Fire can do 80% of an iPad can do at 40% of the price is incorrect....

First off, the Fire costs $200, but if you want access to all that content you need an annual subscription to Amazon Prime at $79 per year.

Some of us already have Prime, so that's not really a new expense.

PracticalMac
Nov 15, 2011, 02:07 PM
So what will it be, Death by success, or Death by high expectations (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1258582)?

----------

This is a good case of selective evidence on the part of Macrumors. The majority of reviews I read today said positive things about the Kindle Fire 90% of the time (cnet, engadget, etc). It appears to meet expectations.
...

SoxFan23, read the reviews again.
Most of them mentioned "for the price (of $199)".
That alone says "you get what you pay for, set the bar really low".

Another thing a LOT of people OUTSIDE of MR said is:
"iPad Killer"

Yeup, plastered as headline grabbing text in many online pubs, Fire will kill the iPad!

nuff said.

----------

I see no reason to compare the Fire to the iPad. They are in completely different price segments. The Fire and the Nook Tablet will sell well and people like me that would never consider an iPad due to price, will never doubt their purchase.

FYI.. I have played with two different iPads extensively on two different occasions and never understood the "hype" surrounding them.

If only those editors trying to grab attention stop saying that!

Rodimus Prime
Nov 15, 2011, 02:10 PM
man these reviews are a bit disappointing. I was really looking forward to getting mine in the mail tomorrow. I hope the rooting process comes out with in 30 days, before the return period is up on this.

you need to remember Mac rumors pick and choose the negative lines out of them. They left out the positive parts of the review. The Verge one was the dead give away something was fishy since I have read those bloggers works from other sites and one of the guys who help get it all up and running that is not his style to bash things like that and the people who worked under him never really did it minus poking fun part.
So it was a give away something was missing and then I read it and found out that yes those quotes were in there but things were left out. Not the most glowing review but more honest.

People seem to expect iPad quality here is what is insane. Come on its a hell of a lot cheaper so yeah not going to be a good but for the price it is great.

santaliqueur
Nov 15, 2011, 04:43 PM
Surprise! It's not an iPad. :eek:

What it is, is a $200 device that can do 80% of what an iPad can do at 40% of the price. Win Win situation all around for end users and for Amazon getting people on their ecosystem.

You're forgetting a very important number. The Kindle Fire is 50% of the size of an iPad.

Yamcha
Nov 15, 2011, 06:35 PM
You know what, these reviews quoted aren't very accurate based on what I'm seeing, most buyers are very happy with their kindle fire, I don't think we should take these quotes seriously..

I understand it's not an iPad, but for that $200 price I think its a great tablet, and based on all the video reviews I've seen again most people have had a positive experience..

bocomo
Nov 16, 2011, 07:21 AM
Now imagine an Apple product with those same problems, and see if reviewers would be even that gentle!

I still like the Kindle platform as a whole, though, and I wish I had a reason to get one of the super-light e-ink versions: I donít like how dark the white e-ink ďpaperĒ is at present, but theríe something cool about them all the same! (Instead, Iím reading a Kindle book on my iPad right now :) Thanks, Amazon!)

Cheap dedicated e-readers will have a market for a nice long time; same with digital cameras, music players, and other low-cost special-use gizmos. They donít have to be an iPad: they do a job.

this is just what i was going to post

i agree with all of your points

----------

I love how you guys pick the ****** parts of the reviews.

Whoever wrote this is an obvious Apple fanboy and is ******** that the iPad isn't an e-reader.

??

i use my ipad as an e-reader all the time

and i thought e-ink was the big selling point of the kindle devices--why did they switch to lcd screen? seems strange to me

----------

A bit disappointing based on those reviews.. I had high expectations, even though it's missing many features I kinda thought it would deliver in terms of performance, but If it's sluggish I don't think its worth investing $200 on..

You know even having used an iPad, I think the best tablet out there is the Playbook.. That is if you like the experience you find on a Laptop or Desktop, I'd say with confidence the Playbook is the only tablet that gives you closest experience to what you see on a desktop..

i think it's nice not having the "desktop experience" (most of the time)

just my 2 cents

ChrisTX
Nov 16, 2011, 10:19 AM
Well - it's not a flop yet. But we know what you mean. I guess it's only a 1.0 product - so I'm sure Amazon are aware of these flaws and will look to address them soon enough.

Having said that, though, they better get their skates on - especially if Apple will be revealing the 3rd generation iPad in the next few months...

RTP.

The original iPad was a 1.0 product and had none of these flaws and the software was very fluid.

Doc750
Nov 16, 2011, 04:59 PM
You naysayers have no idea what your talking about. Yes it's no ipad, but as an extremely portable mobile device, its awesome!

Send from my kindle fire

moogs
Nov 17, 2011, 07:24 AM
You're forgetting a very important number. The Kindle Fire is 50% of the size of an iPad.

Math is hard, isn't it?

bocomo
Nov 17, 2011, 11:56 AM
Math is hard, isn't it?

that size difference could be seen as a positive or a negative

mkrishnan
Nov 17, 2011, 12:18 PM
that size difference could be seen as a positive or a negative

Not if you're a rabid fanatic. :p

Wordsmithmac
Nov 17, 2011, 08:18 PM
Since its been rooted and android apks can be loaded onto it this a steal....