School region wants to move to iPads at the expense

bruinsrme · Nov 15, 2011

At the expense of tax payers.
The Wachusset region wants to move to iPads. Before jumping up and down in a hooray dance it is going to cost the district a cool $1,000,000 to outfit the high school with wireless and students with iPads. Of course through property taxes which already went up a modest nearly 10% this coming year prior to this referendum.

This is a non-vote legislation.

Anyone have experience with their schools moving in this direction?

1. who pays for replacements due to loss or damage?
2. who actually owns them the school or student?
3. do the iPads have restrictions in place or is it open for whatever the user wants two use it for?

4. What model iPad is issued?

thanks

MacDawg · Nov 15, 2011

Those sound like questions to ask the school district themselves

Gav2k · Nov 15, 2011

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1, there insured
2, the school
3, restricted
4, depends on the deal with apple but most I've seen are iPad 1's

On a side note I have been following the U.S rollout fairly closely and if you look into it yourself there is a 10-25% increase in productivity due to the iPad. Added to that children with learning disabilities come on in leaps and bounds! It's not something to moan about the iPad is an amazing tool!

Apple OC · Nov 15, 2011

years ago some people probably thought school computers were a waste of tax dollars also ... IMO iPads are a step in the right direction :apple:

Mr. McMac · Nov 15, 2011

As a taxpayer without kids, I say let the parents of the students pay. It's bad enough that I already pay $4500 in school taxes. This is ********.

roadbloc · Nov 15, 2011

Mr. McMac said:
As a taxpayer without kids, I say let the parents of the students pay. It's bad enough that I already pay $4500 in school taxes. This is ********.

As a taxpayer with kids, I agree with you.

bruinsrme · Nov 15, 2011

Mr. McMac said:
As a taxpayer without kids, I say let the parents of the students pay. It's bad enough that I already pay $4500 in school taxes. This is ********.

Apple OC - there are many benefits, I agree. However this needs to be worked into the current budget.

Mr McMac, or a least subsidize the initiative.

Tomorrow · Nov 15, 2011

bruinsrme said:
Anyone have experience with their schools moving in this direction?

Yes, my wife is a teacher in a district that has provided iPads to teachers and iPod Touches to students. They're looking now at replacing the iPod Touches with iPads for the students.

1. who pays for replacements due to loss or damage?

The parents. They have to sign a form acknowledging their responsibilities for their child's use of the device.

2. who actually owns them the school or student?

The school.

3. do the iPads have restrictions in place or is it open for whatever the user wants two use it for?

The students' Touches are heavily restricted. Safari and many other apps have been disabled, and they will only synchronize with an account set up by one of the district's technology facilitators, who are responsible for keeping them updated.

The teachers' iPads are unrestricted.

4. What model iPad is issued?

Whatever model is current at the time.

On taxation vs. funding for these - they were paid for with Title I money from the Federal government, which is specifically earmarked for technology in education. The districts are allowed to spend it on things like this, or new computers, or TV's, smartboards, etc. - but it isn't allowed to go into the district's general budget. And it's a "use it or lose it" fund that's renewed each year. In any event, local funding (i.e. your school taxes) isn't used to pay for it.

bruinsrme · Nov 15, 2011

Gav2k said:
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3)

1, there insured
2, the school
3, restricted
4, depends on the deal with apple but most I've seen are iPad 1's

On a side note I have been following the U.S rollout fairly closely and if you look into it yourself there is a 10-25% increase in productivity due to the iPad. Added to that children with learning disabilities come on in leaps and bounds! It's not something to moan about the iPad is an amazing tool!

It's something to moan about when the monies will be attached to our tax bill.

The iPad is an amazing tool and their deployment needs to be worked into the budget, not an additional tax burden.

neiltc13 · Nov 15, 2011

I don't buy the arguments from those in favour of schemes like this that introducing tablets is like introducing computers. It isn't - how many English or Maths classes feature kids on computers?

One of the only places where a computer adds value is in an IT classroom. An iPad is not going to benefit anyone there.

Tomorrow · Nov 15, 2011

neiltc13 said:
I don't buy the arguments from those in favour of schemes like this that introducing tablets is like introducing computers. It isn't - how many English or Maths classes feature kids on computers?

One of the only places where a computer adds value is in an IT classroom. An iPad is not going to benefit anyone there.

Well, we're each entitled to our opinions. And mine is that I'm glad you're not a school superintendent.

Rodimus Prime · Nov 15, 2011

Mr. McMac said:
As a taxpayer without kids, I say let the parents of the students pay. It's bad enough that I already pay $4500 in school taxes. This is ********.

so basicly you got your public supported education and now do not want to pay it back?

I noticed this is a common trend that people who got what they wanted out of the system and now done with it they do not want to pay back what they got out of it.

wordoflife · Nov 15, 2011

I don't think tax payers should pay for this. The school should raise their own money. Otherwise, they need to work with what they have until then.

bruinsrme · Nov 15, 2011

Rodimus Prime said:
so basicly you got your public supported education and now do not want to pay it back?

I noticed this is a common trend that people who got what they wanted out of the system and now done with it they do not want to pay back what they got out of it.

The problem I am having the school budget is increasing year after year. The kids are running more and more fund raisers.
Extravagant football, baseball fields.
While I am all for extra curriculum activities the teachers are asking parents to donate supplies.
Now the schools are asking for a million for iPads.
I am not sure but the last time I looked in my backyard I didnt have a money tree.
It's not a matter of paying back, it's a matter of placing an extra burden on taxpayers.

Taxes, went up $80 a month, before this. We are approaching $4700 a year for property tax, another $500 for exise tax on our cars and we have one of the most expensive electrical municipals in the state.

Maybe my wife and I need to each work 80 hours a week

Rodimus Prime · Nov 15, 2011

bruinsrme said:
The problem I am having the school budget is increasing year after year. The kids are running more and more fund raisers.
Extravagant football, baseball fields.
While I am all for extra curriculum activities the teachers are asking parents to donate supplies.
Now the schools are asking for a million for iPads.
I am not sure but the last time I looked in my backyard I didnt have a money tree.
It's not a matter of paying back, it's a matter of placing an extra burden on taxpayers.

Taxes, went up $80 a month, before this. We are approaching $4700 a year for property tax, another $500 for exise tax on our cars and we have one of the most expensive electrical municipals in the state.

Maybe my wife and I need to each work 80 hours a week

did property tax go up or did your house value go up? chance are your property value went up and then you got a slight raise on taxes.

As for your district chances are it being hit like all the others which is the states have been cutting funding from them year after year so they only have one choice and that is to raise taxes.

Also remember they have other cost that increase year after year. Your teachers salaries should be growing a little everything. Power cost are going up everything. Nothing that can be done bout those and on top of all that chances the number of students in the districts are growing not shrinking.

Football for most schools oldly enough is self sustaining. I want to say my HS football team pretty much funds all the other sports.

But if your school are like anyone around here they moral from the teachers are going to be near record lows. They are over worked and under paid.

As for things like band I fully believe those should be supported by the school. It should not be a programs reserved only for rich. This still goes back to people go threw the public support school system and now do not want to pay it back.

As for iPad for students I honestly do not think it is a good idea but that is another topic

bruinsrme · Nov 15, 2011

Rodimus Prime said:
did property tax go up or did your house value go up? chance are your property value went up and then you got a slight raise on taxes.

As for your district chances are it being hit like all the others which is the states have been cutting funding from them year after year so they only have one choice and that is to raise taxes.

Also remember they have other cost that increase year after year. Your teachers salaries should be growing a little everything. Power cost are going up everything. Nothing that can be done bout those and on top of all that chances the number of students in the districts are growing not shrinking.

Football for most schools oldly enough is self sustaining. I want to say my HS football team pretty much funds all the other sports.

But if your school are like anyone around here they moral from the teachers are going to be near record lows. They are over worked and under paid.

As for things like band I fully believe those should be supported by the school. It should not be a programs reserved only for rich. This still goes back to people go threw the public support school system and now do not want to pay it back.

As for iPad for students I honestly do not think it is a good idea but that is another topic

House value didn't go up. The tax evaluation went up.

House value has dropped by at least $45k
However the evaluation has gone up over 20% because of new siding and windows.

I support activities like band, drama club, computer club and sports. Fine but hockey is expensive as is football. When kids have to bring in supplies to support their learning, sorry but parents of the extra curriculum activities need to kick in more.

Rodimus Prime · Nov 15, 2011

bruinsrme said:
House value didn't go up. The tax evaluation went up.

House value has dropped by at least $45k
However the evaluation has gone up over 20% because of new siding and windows.

I support activities like band, drama club, computer club and sports. Fine but hockey is expensive as is football. When kids have to bring in supplies to support their learning, sorry but parents of the extra curriculum activities need to kick in more.

then as I said evaluation when up. If your house value is below the tax value then contest it and it gets adjusted. Here my parents house could drop but they would still get a tax evaluation raise because even the max tax value raise does not make it up to the value of the house.

Also you need to remember football could easily be self supporting. My HS the football program is 100% self supported and supports multiple other sports programs. Band I know is one of the biggest expediencies. Uniforms have to replaced every so often and those 10 years ago were around 300-400 a pop (And then they have to order 200 of them) Certain interments have to be bought and majority of those are 10+k a pop. I know of a few that they have to drop 20+k for a single one.

Abstract · Nov 16, 2011

An iPad isn't going to help you write, read (although I suppose this can be argued), math, or even art. Let kids paint with paint, draw with pencils, do math on paper, and write on paper (or type on a keyboard).

Kids are falling behind in key subjects where an iPad isn't going to help them. Personally, I'd rather the money be spent on more teachers and academic support, extra-curricular clubs and activities, and other things.

I don't mind parents in rich neighbourhoods buying them for their own kids to use at school, or a (private) school policy that parents must provide an iPad for their own children.

miles01110 · Nov 16, 2011

Certain interments have to be bought and majority of those are 10+k a pop. I know of a few that they have to drop 20+k for a single one.

Grade-school quality band/orchestra instruments are rarely more than $5,000, and those are either for the big items like concert marimbas, timpani, and tubas. If your school is spending $20,000 on a single instrument, they are most likely wasting taxpayer money.

maflynn · Nov 16, 2011

Mr. McMac said:
As a taxpayer without kids, I say let the parents of the students pay. It's bad enough that I already pay $4500 in school taxes. This is ********.

I think costs like these are supposed to be born by community, as everyone has vested interest in having children get a good education.

We cannot pick and choose education tools people want to pay because they don't have children. If its part of an overall education plan then the as I stated its fair that the community pay for it.

roadbloc · Nov 16, 2011

maflynn said:
We cannot pick and choose education tools people want to pay because they don't have children. If its part of an overall education plan then the as I stated its fair that the community pay for it.

When fees are pushed up by unnecessary tools such as iPads for every student, I feel people begin to care less. Why should someone without kids pay for someone's kid to have an iPad when pen and paper will do the same job? (Without the distractions that the iPad provides might I add.)

Paying for education is one thing. Paying for an iPad for every student is another. The past has proven that students don't need iPads to learn.

miles01110 · Nov 16, 2011

roadbloc said:
Why should someone without kids pay for someone's kid to have an iPad when pen and paper will do the same job?

Because the school board approved it. If you don't like it, vote for people who oppose the project and/or run for the board yourself.

Tomorrow · Nov 16, 2011

To all those who feel that iPads, computers, etc. aren't helpful to students, you're completely wrong, and I have firsthand knowledge of that.

My wife is a teacher in a district that's using iPod Touches and iPads. As I pointed out, they're owned by the school and next year's kids get to use them - they don't get to keep them.

One of the biggest issues I'm seeing here is one that was seen in the parents across the district - that being, people think of how they would use the device, rather than how the kids are going to use the device. That's a difficult hill to climb if you're a grownup and don't work in early childhood education.

They use these iPods to blog notes as they're reading a book; they collaborate with others to put together group reports on what they're doing. They use them as "ring in" devices for group games (think like "Jeopardy" only with academic questions instead of trivia questions). They're looking up densities of materials in science class.

Yes, there are probably other ways of doing all these (and other) things, but what everyone seems to be overlooking is that these devices get kids excited about learning, and it's a million times easier to learn something when you're actually interested in learning it. Even the parents who started out as naysayers are now supporting the program. The simple reality is it works.

I'm a homeowner myself and I pay quite a bit in property taxes (Texas has some of the highest rates in the U.S.), and I'll never bat an eye about paying taxes to ensure having better-educated kids in the neighborhood.

neiltc13 · Nov 16, 2011

Tomorrow said:
To all those who feel that iPads, computers, etc. aren't helpful to students, you're completely wrong, and I have firsthand knowledge of that.

My wife is a teacher in a district that's using iPod Touches and iPads. As I pointed out, they're owned by the school and next year's kids get to use them - they don't get to keep them.

One of the biggest issues I'm seeing here is one that was seen in the parents across the district - that being, people think of how they would use the device, rather than how the kids are going to use the device. That's a difficult hill to climb if you're a grownup and don't work in early childhood education.

They use these iPods to blog notes as they're reading a book; they collaborate with others to put together group reports on what they're doing. They use them as "ring in" devices for group games (think like "Jeopardy" only with academic questions instead of trivia questions). They're looking up densities of materials in science class.

Yes, there are probably other ways of doing all these (and other) things, but what everyone seems to be overlooking is that these devices get kids excited about learning, and it's a million times easier to learn something when you're actually interested in learning it. Even the parents who started out as naysayers are now supporting the program. The simple reality is it works.

I'm a homeowner myself and I pay quite a bit in property taxes (Texas has some of the highest rates in the U.S.), and I'll never bat an eye about paying taxes to ensure having better-educated kids in the neighborhood.

I don't understand what is different about writing notes on an iPad compared to with a pen and paper, with the exception that it is more difficult to write notes on iPad and it requires battery power to read them.

Or are we really getting to a much deeper issue here, where the kids you speak of are only enticed to work by the shiny gadgets and not the work itself?

Tomorrow · Nov 16, 2011

neiltc13 said:
I don't understand what is different about writing notes on an iPad compared to with a pen and paper, with the exception that it is more difficult to write notes on iPad and it requires battery power to read them.

That's because you're only thinking in terms of writing notes.

These kids are using online collaboration tools. They look up things online. They're blogging their book reviews for other students and teachers to read - on other iPods. They're sending emails, and sending their work via email. Not just to their own teachers, mind you. Doing all of this, beyond simply being valuable tools for future research and schoolwork, is also exciting to them.

Think about it - if nobody ever had a need beyond scribbling notes on a piece of paper, we might still not have computers at all.

School region wants to move to iPads at the expense

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