Hard to read the text on the webpage [Archive]

DaTrIx

May 23, 2005, 08:27 AM

Could anyone help me here please.

I just installed the Tiger on my Mac Mini. However, I found that it is really hard to read the text on the webpage, it is not clear at all. And I am kind of sure that it is not the problem with my LCD, it should be something do with the Tiger display setting, smoothing or whatever?

Anyone please help me out. Thanks a lot.

Mitthrawnuruodo

May 23, 2005, 08:31 AM

Find out what the displays native resolution is, and adjust your system preferences accordingly.

DaTrIx

May 23, 2005, 09:06 AM

Thank you for your quick reply. However, it still does not work. I am sorry being silly here, but as a newbie to the Mac OS, I really don't know how to solve this problem. It is just quite hard to read any text in the OS, webpages or IM.

Could anyone else help me out, please? Thanks again!

Mitthrawnuruodo

May 23, 2005, 09:19 AM

Ok, but I think we need a bit more to go on. Like which the specs on your Mac and which LCD you got... :)

irmongoose

May 23, 2005, 09:32 AM

System Preferences > Appearances > Font smoothing style.

Adjust it to Standard or Light to make the text crisper.

You might have to once quit the app you are using for it to take effect.

irmongoose

hob

May 23, 2005, 09:33 AM

Are you using Safari? Have you tried going to the view menu and selecting "make text bigger"? (or pressing command (the apple key) and the + key at the same time)

Hob

DaTrIx

May 23, 2005, 09:53 AM

Thank you to all for helping me here.

Currently, I am using a Sharp LL-172A LCD Monitor. I don't think its the problem of the text size, because I have tried to 'make it bigger'.

I also tried what irmongoose suggested by adjusting the 'Font smoothing style'; quit the app; but nothing changed.

Is there any way that I could change the color setting to 32bits, or something like that; so that the text can be a little bit crisper.

Thank you again...

irmongoose

May 23, 2005, 10:01 AM

You could try logging out and back in... just a thought.

irmongoose

DaTrIx

May 23, 2005, 10:22 AM

Applespider

May 23, 2005, 10:25 AM

Is there anyway that I could set the resolution higher than 1280x1024, because that is the highest one I can find in my OS currently. Do I need to update my graph card driver for using a higher resolution?

Odd - you should have more options than that. Can you take a screen grab of your Display preference pane in System Preferences and post it for us? Command - Shift - 4 (and drag the crosshair across the window) then attach it using the 'manage attachments' button below.

DaTrIx

May 23, 2005, 10:40 AM

THANK YOU, Applespider. Here is the picture. :(

CanadaRAM

May 23, 2005, 11:08 AM

Is there anyway that I could set the resolution higher than 1280x1024, because that is the highest one I can find in my OS currently. Do I need to update my graph card driver for using a higher resolution?

Thank you!
If you did set it to a higher resolution, it would only make the text smaller...
SXGA (1280 x 1024) is the native resolution of your screen, leave it set to that:
http://www.sharpsystems.com/products/lcd_monitors/15-17_inch/ll-172a/details.asp#classifier

What are you comparing the text on your screen to -- the same machine and monitor under Panther? The same monitor under Windows? Another monitor?

Is it all text that is harder to read in all programs such as TextEdit, or just in Safari? Have you tried going into Safari: Preferences: Appearance and changing the font and size for standard display? Once you do that, do you still have a problem with all fonts, or just particular ones?

Your LCD also has an analog VGA input, not a DVI input. Some Mini owners have complained that the VGA output from the Mini's monitor jack is dimmer than usual.

> I also tried what irmongoose suggested by adjusting the 'Font smoothing style'; quit the app; but nothing changed.

There should have been a visual change to all of the text when you made this change, Font Smoothing puts a "fuzzy" edge around characters so that they appear smooth, not pixellated, on diagonals and curves. If you turn this off the text will appear crisper, but more notchy.

dornoforpyros

May 23, 2005, 11:14 AM

hit the APPLE key and the + key at the same time. It makes text bigger in both safari and Firefox

DaTrIx

May 23, 2005, 11:31 AM

Big thanks to CanadaRAM!

>What are you comparing the text on your screen to -- the same machine and monitor under Panther? The same monitor under Windows? Another monitor?

Yes, I am comparing the same monitor under windows.

>Is it all text that is harder to read in all programs such as TextEdit, or just in Safari?

Yes, I have been trying all the fonts with Safari and Camino; and I have to admit that it is readable for all the fonts, but just not as clear as under windows. So I start to wonder if it is just my own problem as a newbie that has not get used to the new OS.

>Your LCD also has an analog VGA input, not a DVI input. Some Mini owners have complained that the VGA output from the Mini's monitor jack is dimmer than usual.

Yes, dimmer. Thats exactly the word can describe my current issue. Have you got any idea about how to solve this problem yet?

So, really, it seems that I cannot do too much about it, right? :(

DaTrIx

May 24, 2005, 05:10 AM

Any new ideas please? :confused:

Oryan

May 24, 2005, 01:21 PM

I'm not sure about this but maybe getting a DVI to VGA adaptor would make the screen brighter. Or you can adjust the brightness level on the monitor or in system prefs.

jsw

May 24, 2005, 01:34 PM

I'm not sure about this but maybe getting a DVI to VGA adaptor would make the screen brighter. Or you can adjust the brightness level on the monitor or in system prefs.
I suspect DaTrIx is already using the DVI->VGA converter that comes with the mini.

jeremy.king

May 24, 2005, 01:54 PM

Any new ideas please? :confused:

Call Applecare

CanadaRAM

May 24, 2005, 01:56 PM

I am comparing the same monitor under windows.

>Is it all text that is harder to read in all programs such as TextEdit, or just in Safari?

Yes, I have been trying all the fonts with Safari and Camino; and I have to admit that it is readable for all the fonts, but just not as clear as under windows. So I start to wonder if it is just my own problem as a newbie that has not get used to the new OS.

>Your LCD also has an analog VGA input, not a DVI input. Some Mini owners have complained that the VGA output from the Mini's monitor jack is dimmer than usual.

Yes, dimmer. Thats exactly the word can describe my current issue. Have you got any idea about how to solve this problem yet?
So, really, it seems that I cannot do too much about it, right? :(

Contact Apple about the dimmer VGA output: this would seem to be a hardware problem and nothing you can do much about. Apple may or may not decide to swap your machine under warranty if you convince them that the VGA output is unusably bad.

Your big bux alternative is to buy a LCD monitor with a DVI input and use a DVI cable from Mini to Monitor.

Since you are comparing with Windows, I think you are also seeing the effects of the OS X font smoothing. I don't think you have successfully turned it off to compare the difference. You have also not answered whether this is a problem in other programs outside of Web browsers. Is the text similarly soft in TextEdit or AppleWorks or any other program?

hob

May 24, 2005, 08:28 PM

Also, if you look at the screenshot you attached - I wouldn't say any of that is hard to read - is it hard to read on your screen? Look at the actual full-screen screenshot again... Also, load the screenshot on your PC - does it come out different? (just a thought)

DaTrIx

May 25, 2005, 10:35 AM

Thank you for all the replies, and the possible solutions.

Big thanks to CanadaRAM and hob.

I don't think Apple will swap a new machine to me, they may just say something like, well, its your monitor; go and get a DVI one.... Also, I am typing the texts in the TextEdit; so that you can see if the fonts are similarly soft and dim. Again, it is readable, but just not as good as in Windows, I suppose so (please see the screenshot).

Also, could anyone tell me how to turn the smoothing off; it really seems that I didn't do it successfully before.

Jigglelicious

May 25, 2005, 10:41 AM

The fonts in your screenshot seem just fine to me. They look the exact same way on my Mac. If you still have a PC or know someone with one, why don't you load your screenshot up on their computer to see how the fonts look there - it may indeed be a problem with the display you are using.

The font smoothing in OSX is a bit more... intense compared to Windows, especially if you've never used font smoothing before. It does take some getting used to. Since the fonts are being displayed correctly in your screenshot, that means the problem is either with your monitor, or your perception of the fonts.

joecool85

May 25, 2005, 10:49 AM

You're also running at a slow refresh rate...I run my LCD at 75 not 60hz.

Yebot

May 25, 2005, 03:38 PM

^ Keep this in mind everyone ... of course his screenshots are going to look fine to us. We are not viewing them with DaTrIx's monitor.

ITASOR

May 25, 2005, 03:46 PM

I know exactly what you mean. Like someone before stated, OS X's font smoothing is more intense and takes some getting used to. It only took me a few days and now it looks perfectly normal!

stevep

May 25, 2005, 04:36 PM

Have a look at
http://www.lowendmac.com/tech/pixels.html
About half way down the page is a table showing the screen dpi's for different macs. I thought they would all be the same, and like many had wrongly assumed that the Mac dpi was a fair bit lower than that of a pc - it used to be but Apple changed all that some time ago.
Although the Mac mini isn't in the table, there are plenty of other models shown which you can use as a yardstick. Note that the 14" iBook has the lowest dpi of all, but its not that much lower than a Windows pc (96 dpi).
As CanadaRam says:Since you are comparing with Windows, I think you are also seeing the effects of the OS X font smoothing.

hob

May 25, 2005, 04:37 PM

You're also running at a slow refresh rate...I run my LCD at 75 not 60hz.
Do LCD's have refresh rates?

Jigglelicious

May 25, 2005, 05:21 PM

Do LCD's have refresh rates?

Not in the same way that a CRT refreshes the screen, no. LCD's do have pixel response times, though this is not affected by the Hz of the signal.

ITASOR

May 25, 2005, 06:40 PM

Do LCD's have refresh rates?

My Samsung Syncmaster doesn't let me change it from 75Hz.

Anyone know the native resolution for a Samsung Syncmaster 715V? That would be nice to know.

jeremy.king

May 25, 2005, 08:26 PM

I don't think Apple will swap a new machine to me, they may just say something like, well, its your monitor; go and get a DVI one....

You will never know unless you call.

CanadaRAM

May 25, 2005, 08:38 PM

You're also running at a slow refresh rate...I run my LCD at 75 not 60hz.
Naw. 60 Hz is correct for a LCD. The pixels (transistors) on an LCD turn on and STAY ON until the colour of that pixel changes, so refresh rate is immaterial.

The reason refresh rate is important on CRTs is that the pixels (phosphors) of the screen fire, glow, then immediately start to fade to black, then the gun comes along and fires them again (refreshes them). If the rate at which the electron gun refreshes the pixels is near 60 x per second, then an ugly strobing flicker effect takes place between the screen and the 60 Hz AC current which is pulsing the *room lighting* at nearly the same rate. The solution for CRTs is to increase the refresh rate until it is far enough away in frequency from the room lights that the interference doesn't happen (or use the computer outside in the sunlight, or move to a country with 50 Hz AC frequency.

But since LCDs don't glow and fade, they don't need refreshing, and the 60 Hz setting is essentially meaningless.

CanadaRAM

May 25, 2005, 08:45 PM

Anyone know the native resolution for a Samsung Syncmaster 715V? That would be nice to know.

Ummm... www.samsung.com -> Support -> Search "715V" -> click first result -> Max/Native Resolution: 1280x1024

A similar process will find the specifications of most products from most manufacturers...

ITASOR

May 26, 2005, 03:17 PM

Thanks CanadaRAM! I changed it to 1280x1024, but it had lots of little lines through the display. I then changed it from 75Hz to 60hz and the lines went away. I've been working on 1152x870, but this had the little barely noticable lines, because it was only available on 75Hz. The only resolutions the Samsung does on 60Hz are 1280x1024 and 1024x768. 1024x768 is what I was using on Windows, but on Mac is makes everything so big, that it looks blurry. Same on 1152x870. Changing the display to 1280x1024 made everything really crisp, but the downside is that everything is too small.

Everything also looks a little squashed vertically, which I'm not sure if it really is or that I was used to 1152x870, which I'm guessing is an odd resolution, since I've never heard of it.

Opinions?

mwpeters8182

May 26, 2005, 03:49 PM

ITASOR

May 26, 2005, 04:14 PM

Yeah...it's just too bad that everything is SOOO small on 1280x1024.....it's hard to read small. Although it's great for photoshop and iMovie! I think I'll try and get used to it!

jeremy.king

May 26, 2005, 04:15 PM

Changing the display to 1280x1024 made everything really crisp, but the downside is that everything is too small.

You do realize you can customize the size of icons and menu text, right?

Lacero

May 26, 2005, 04:16 PM

My sister at work uses a 21" CRT monitor with the resolution set a 800x600. Go figure.

ITASOR

May 26, 2005, 05:08 PM

I know about icons and menus, but everthing else is small and I don't really like changing text sizes all the time just so I can read it. I just wish it let me use other resolutions at 60hz to get rid of the small lines.

jeremy.king

May 26, 2005, 05:12 PM

I just wish it let me use other resolutions at 60hz to get rid of the small lines.

LCDs are designed to run at one resolution. The refresh rate doesn't apply.

ITASOR

May 26, 2005, 06:25 PM

When I use any resolution that actually gives me the option of 75 or 60, 75 puts these micro-lines on the left side of the screen. They look like a line of lighter pixels, then darker one, and so on. Changing the display to 60Hz fixes the problem, but 75hz is the only option on the resolution I want to use.

Hope that clears it up. Also, thanks for the responses, I appreciate it.