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View Full Version : As I tinker with Snow Leopard again...




Steve's Barber
Dec 5, 2011, 06:16 PM
... I've forgotten how much I miss it. :)

Installed 10.6 to an external and right now I'm just waiting for the 1.2gb updates to finish. Not sure I'm dumping Lion but it's tempting. (Since I don't need iCloud anymore due to my company migrating to an Exchange server).

Wow. The stop light buttons are as big as freaking water melons. (I love it). Even the Aqua jelly-bean scrollbars and rounded buttons have a nostalgic kick to them.

Spaces and Expose' are intuitive once again. All my minimized windows actually show up in one full Expose screen :eek: (unlike Lion). And the animations are fast... and smooth as butter.

And this is 10.6!

Knock on wood... my wi-fi might just stay working without the toggling it on/off like I have to in Lion every few days.

Colored icons in the Finder sidebar... how silly. :) Amazing the things I never noticed before.

The Address Book and iCal... they look normal! No cheesy faux leather. And the Address Book with 3 columns is actually useable!

Snow Leopard just feels "tight", snappy and solid right now. It's something you don't remember until it's gone.

Still going down memory lane though. Need to make a pro/con list before deciding. I'd miss a few things in Lion (but not many I think). If I do downgrade I won't "upgrade" again until I see what 10.8 does. If it has more iOS crap I don't know what the future holds. :(

P.S. Not hating on the Lion users. I just think it's more suited for those people new to OSX than some of us old-timers who knew innovation when they saw it.



iSimx
Dec 6, 2011, 03:48 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3)

You know I partitioned and installed 10.6 a couple of days ago and I'm also missing it. Very tempted to switch back. I want to like lion, but snow leopard is so much more stable and faster. Although never really used spaces, I agree exposé was so much better.

maflynn
Dec 6, 2011, 06:34 AM
I have Lion on my MBP and Snow Leopard on my kids Mac Mini. I find that I've gotten used to some of the things that apple added into Lion when using the mini. My point is that I'm the polar opposite when going from Lion to SL.

food for thought :)

Steve's Barber
Dec 7, 2011, 06:32 PM
I have Lion on my MBP and Snow Leopard on my kids Mac Mini. I find that I've gotten used to some of the things that apple added into Lion when using the mini. My point is that I'm the polar opposite when going from Lion to SL.

food for thought :)

Yep, I'm still torn on a few things myself. As minor as some people may think they are, the things I like most in Lion are:

1.) The "tap to zoom" feature. quite handy on a 13" screen when browsing/reading.

2.) Inserting my signature in a PDF via preview. (I do a lot of electronic signing).

3.) Three finger gestures.

I'm looking for Snow Leopard equivalents now and am having *some* luck with things like "Better Touch Tool" and a few Safari extensions.

For me though, Expose and Spaces are the biggest draw back to SL. It's just so damned hard to let those go. :) I've really tried using different workflows with Mission Control but it's just a fumbled mess. :(

Nameci
Dec 7, 2011, 08:17 PM
I only miss snow leopard because of its install size.

iThinkergoiMac
Dec 7, 2011, 09:24 PM
Lion has been out for less than 6 months and already SL is a "trip down memory lane"?! Really?

I do have to say that all the animations in Lion are VERY smooth on my 2009 MBP, so if your 2011 MBP is having issues with them, it's probably not Lion's fault.

toxic
Dec 7, 2011, 09:36 PM
yeah, I couldn't get used to Mission Control. I had Lion on my 13" MBP (now sold), left SL on my MP. ended up going back to SL on my MBP after awhile. tried Lion one more time for a couple weeks before I sold it, still couldn't win me over.

I dunno if SL animations are smoother, it might just be that they're faster.

Fry-man22
Dec 7, 2011, 10:43 PM
yeah, I couldn't get used to Mission Control. I had Lion on my 13" MBP (now sold), left SL on my MP. ended up going back to SL on my MBP after awhile. tried Lion one more time for a couple weeks before I sold it, still couldn't win me over.

I dunno if SL animations are smoother, it might just be that they're faster.

I opened Mission Control once and didn't open it again - changing the OS because one app is on the machine is a bit idiotic...

Lion is a much more secure os under the covers than snow leopard and going forward it will only get better.

That being said, I liked the UI in Snow leopard better. The colored icons made it easier to tell things apart in the side bar and the jelly scroll was cool to me...

toxic
Dec 7, 2011, 11:06 PM
I opened Mission Control once and didn't open it again - changing the OS because one app is on the machine is a bit idiotic...


I'd like to see how you don't open MC, considering there's no more Exposé.

I switched back for many reasons. MC was one of the more annoying ones.

Lion is a much more secure os under the covers than snow leopard and going forward it will only get better.

that doesn't help my UI experience, and since I'm neither a business nor a clueless user, it's not a strong selling point.

maflynn
Dec 8, 2011, 05:43 AM
I'd like to see how you don't open MC, considering there's no more Exposé.
Simple, you don't click on the Mission Control icon on the dock. MC is one area that apple has to address, it fails completely more so when you have a lot of apps running, or use multiple monitors.

toxic
Dec 8, 2011, 06:05 AM
Simple, you don't click on the Mission Control icon on the dock. MC is one area that apple has to address, it fails completely more so when you have a lot of apps running, or use multiple monitors.

so what do you use instead? nothing? not using virtual desktops or showing windows isn't a solution. going back to SL is.

maflynn
Dec 8, 2011, 06:42 AM
I don't use virtual desktops, I never really did with SL either

vitzr
Dec 8, 2011, 06:54 AM
Lion reminds me of how good Snow Leopard is. I'm so glad I bought a new MBA for the sole purpose of trying the Lion experience, before disrupting my fast, reliable & well optimized Snow Leopard machines.

miniConvert
Dec 8, 2011, 06:58 AM
Three fingers up and three fingers down (mission control and all application windows) actually works better for me than Exposé did now I'm used to it. Did take a while to adjust, though, and for some reason the three-fingers-down gesture isn't enabled by default?! I find that often times Apple don't enable things by default in the OS that really should be - almost like they implement a great feature and then have a sudden lack of confidence to actually ship it active.

Snow Leopard was a good OS I agree. It took Leopard and optimised it, and I think having a whole release focussed on that really showed. I don't miss it, though, and when I use it now there's nothing about it I'd actually want to go back to.

I think one of the biggest barriers to Lion adoption is that Apple really did change the UI considerably - more so than we're used to from the revisions right back since Tiger really. Like coming from Windows, switching to Lion does mean changes to the way we perform day-to-day tasks, and unless you're prepared to 'start over' you're left fighting the OS trying to get it to behave the way you're used to when things have moved on.

Steve's Barber
Dec 8, 2011, 10:05 AM
Three fingers up and three fingers down (mission control and all application windows) actually works better for me than Exposé did now I'm used to it.In SL, Expose' works with 4 fingers but I too missed the 3 finger swiping gestures so just used Better Touch Tool to mimic all those in Lion that I liked. (Also 2 finger swiping in Safari to go forward/backward).

By far though MC is what prompted me to consider SL again. For me Expose is probably the most widely used app I use in OSX. Spaces, not so much - just for Parallels and virtual drives.

I could typically have a 8-12 apps running. When using Expose in Mission Control to find a window I would have to first visually scan the top of the screen (After a while I couldn't remember if I was running it in full screen or not), then... search the middle and find a window buried in a stack of other application windows. Lastly, if the app still wasn't found it was probably minimized so it either didn't show up anywhere or could be found in the dock.

I make it sound like it took me 20 minutes to do this - no. :) MC just tries to be all things to all people and I have straightforward needs. Just display all my windows (unstacked) and I'll take it from there.

Not all change is good. The simplistic elegance of the old Expose lasted so long I'm surprised it changed. Of course if one has never used it then folks are perfectly content with MC.

BigDukeSix
Dec 8, 2011, 11:02 AM
A question: If I buy a new Mac that comes with Lion, can I downgrade it back to Snow Leopard? Thanks in advance.

vitzr
Dec 8, 2011, 11:09 AM
A question: If I buy a new Mac that comes with Lion, can I downgrade it back to Snow Leopard? Thanks in advance.

Sadly... no you can't.

This is seriously limiting me, since I want to buy a new Mac, but will not due to being stuck with Lion.

Perhaps with some luck after a few more updates, Lion will be tolerable and I will be able to resume buying Macs.

In addition, I'm lucky since in 2010 I replaced every Mac I have. Fortunately I had just enough info about Lion from the rumors, to know that the early versions would not be for me.

BigDukeSix
Dec 8, 2011, 11:13 AM
Sadly... no you can't.

This is seriously limiting me, since I want to buy a new Mac, but will not due to being stuck with Lion.

Perhaps with some luck after a few more updates, Lion will be tolerable and I will be able to resume buying Macs.

In addition, I'm lucky since in 2010 I replaced every Mac I have. Fortunately I had just enough info about Lion from the rumors, to know that the early versions would not be for me.

Good info. I am curious as to what is different from a hardware standpoint in the new Macs that prevents from being backward compatible.

toxic
Dec 8, 2011, 01:41 PM
Good info. I am curious as to what is different from a hardware standpoint in the new Macs that prevents from being backward compatible.

no driver support. there's a workaround for the Mini, but that's because the pre-Lion MBP had the same hardware.

daneoni
Dec 8, 2011, 02:18 PM
Yup thats why i went back to SL after a few days with Lion.

Steve's Barber
Dec 11, 2011, 10:21 AM
Well, I "tinkered" enough and am now happily back to lean and crisp Snow Leopard.

No more of this "versions" nonsense. Good old Save and Save as... for me.

My SSD boot time went from 18 seconds to about 11 (power button to desktop). :) That's no surprise but it illustrates the disk swapping, stuttering and choking Lion has to do even when loading zero apps on startup.

Unless 10.7.x goes through some major changes with Mission Control and Apple gives me more choices in how I want to use the OS I'll sit on the upgrade sidelines until 10.8. And if that version includes much more iOS eye candy that I can't disable I just might have an expensive Windows 8 machine. Of course I'll still be at Apple's mercy for the drivers. :eek:

Capex
Dec 11, 2011, 10:41 AM
I installed Snow Leopard on a separate partition after I read this. I experienced something sort of similar, but I was too used to the minor graphical changes! I am just hoping Lion will become more and more refined as we move through updates.

Joos24
Dec 11, 2011, 11:17 AM
Well, I "tinkered" enough and am now happily back to lean and crisp Snow Leopard.

No more of this "versions" nonsense. Good old Save and Save as... for me.

My SSD boot time went from 18 seconds to about 11 (power button to desktop). :) That's no surprise but it illustrates the disk swapping, stuttering and choking Lion has to do even when loading zero apps on startup.

Unless 10.7.x goes through some major changes with Mission Control and Apple gives me more choices in how I want to use the OS I'll sit on the upgrade sidelines until 10.8. And if that version includes much more iOS eye candy that I can't disable I just might have an expensive Windows 8 machine. Of course I'll still be at Apple's mercy for the drivers. :eek:

Um, okay, great for you, not being sarcastic. If your "mission" is not to discourage people from upgrading to Lion then why do you keep posting how happy you are with the aging Snow Leopard? We gotcha, thanks, but honestly let people make up their own minds. I've seen many happy Lion customers here that said how happy they were with Lion on that nice poll that you created. Were you hoping that the poll would show a lot more negative towards Lion? I'm just trying to understand the whole reasoning for your post.
To be honest, all you've been posting are your personal opinions and nothing really that I can see that would help others, other than to discourage them from upgrading to Lion. You were saying how Lion was dropping in ratings and such when your poll was just not working in the favor you may have been hoping for. The poll showed a high percentage of positive results and I guess you weren't hoping for that.

Okay, we get it, you don't like Lion and want to stay on the aging Snow Leopard but let other people decide what they want and how they feel.

klaxamazoo
Dec 11, 2011, 11:52 AM
Um, okay, great for you, not being sarcastic. If your "mission" is not to discourage people from upgrading to Lion then why do you keep posting how happy you are with the aging Snow Leopard? We gotcha, thanks, but honestly let people make up their own minds. I've seen many happy Lion customers here that said how happy they were with Lion on that nice poll that you created. Were you hoping that the poll would show a lot more negative towards Lion? I'm just trying to understand the whole reasoning for your post.
To be honest, all you've been posting are your personal opinions and nothing really that I can see that would help others, other than to discourage them from upgrading to Lion. You were saying how Lion was dropping in ratings and such when your poll was just not working in the favor you may have been hoping for. The poll showed a high percentage of positive results and I guess you weren't hoping for that.

Okay, we get it, you don't like Lion and want to stay on the aging Snow Leopard but let other people decide what they want and how they feel.

This discussion is about going back to Snow Leopard and he is clearly stating why he likes Snow Leopard more than Lion. No reason to get you panties all bunched up over his participating in the conversation. His view is perfectly valid, he doesn't like Lion. Other peoples views are also perfectly valid, they might like Lion.

Since Lion is a pretty stable OS with very few bugs, any problems people have with it will be, by their very nature, opinions and preferences. You are going to have to accept that people will have differing opinions about UI than you do and those opinions will get expressed on the internet.

Personally, Lion sucks; I'm glad my main computer is Snow Leopard and I wish that I could put Snow Leopard on my Macbook Air. That is my opinion and recommendation to anyone who is thinking about installing Lion. I have stated that opinion before and I will continue to state it on these forums.

Steve's Barber
Dec 11, 2011, 02:13 PM
To be honest, all you've been posting are your personal opinions and nothing really that I can see that would help others, other than to discourage them from upgrading to Lion.Some would indeed consider this "help". :) Why does this bother you?

Dude. Regardless of some silly-assed poll, Lion is here to stay. Snow Leopard lost. I get it. You really think I'm trying to change that? What I find odd is people like you who feel Lion needs defending or even worse, rely on polls to convince yourselves you made the right decision to upgrade. Not all of us are lemmings.

I've admitted there are things in Lion I like. What more do you want? (Rhetorical: I don't care). I've used Lion since day 1 and like many *many* others just couldn't get it to adapt to my workflow and habits (instead of the other way around). And surprisingly... many of us are coming out of the closets with SL disk in hand. :)

Do I enjoy seeing Lion get some bad press? You bet. How the heck will it ever change for the better if Apple thinks all those changes were spot on perfect?

KnightWRX
Dec 11, 2011, 03:02 PM
Simple, you don't click on the Mission Control icon on the dock. MC is one area that apple has to address, it fails completely more so when you have a lot of apps running, or use multiple monitors.

I use multiple monitors, multiple spaces and multiple apps with multiple windows (XCode being notorious on that last one) and Mission Control has yet to fail me.

App Expose is much better than the SL Expose I never used at all (what a mess it would make).

Frankly, different strokes for different folks. I find mission control very nice as it is.

----------

I don't use virtual desktops, I never really did with SL either

Ah there's your issue. Virtual desktops is the best way to organize a work flow into tasks. Been using them since the 90s. Mission Control is brilliant with virtual desktops.

dba415
Dec 11, 2011, 04:35 PM
the only thing that I miss in snow leopard is the superior mail and calendar apps. The total package however snow leopard wins because using snow leopard expose is sex for me compared to lion.

fisherking
Dec 11, 2011, 04:43 PM
i don't get it...should we all move back in time?

lion just seems to me to be the next step forward. sure, there are things i don't like. but...one day, you'll wake up, and the latest version of an app you need to use will REQUIRE 10.7.x...and then you will have to upgrade.

who misses 10.2? 10.4?? life moves on, and we move forward with it...or not...

Steve's Barber
Dec 11, 2011, 05:37 PM
one day, you'll wake up, and the latest version of an app you need to use will REQUIRE 10.7.x...and then you will have to upgrade.

Only if they're Apple apps. :D I'm still opening Word documents from 1997 because MS for all their faults doesn't throw its user base under the bus at the drop of a hat. I've said repeatedly that I could live with Lion if I had to. I just don't have to right now. If it weren't for my Exchange account I'd still be using it just for iCloud.

But as of now, Snow Leopard users still have life:

315763
Source (http://www.electronista.com/articles/11/11/12/chitika.has.lion.adoption.levelling.off/)

But of course Lion users will grow because Apple's new hardware won't run anything else. :)

fisherking
Dec 11, 2011, 07:52 PM
Only if they're Apple apps. :D I'm still opening Word documents from 1997 because MS for all their faults doesn't throw its user base under the bus at the drop of a hat. I've said repeatedly that I could live with Lion if I had to. I just don't have to right now. If it weren't for my Exchange account I'd still be using it just for iCloud.

But as of now, Snow Leopard users still have life:

315763
Source (http://www.electronista.com/articles/11/11/12/chitika.has.lion.adoption.levelling.off/)

But of course Lion users will grow because Apple's new hardware won't run anything else. :)

all i really mean is...you move forward, or you don't. at some point everyone will have to (as they get new macs, etc). and lots of apps misbehave on newer OS's (just ask adobe users).

iThinkergoiMac
Dec 11, 2011, 09:48 PM
Only if they're Apple apps. :D I'm still opening Word documents from 1997 because MS for all their faults doesn't throw its user base under the bus at the drop of a hat.

But wait. Opening older versions of a document is a different animal altogether than having an app require a newer version of the OS than you have. That's not at all an accurate comparison as a response to the post you quoted.

Steve's Barber
Dec 12, 2011, 01:16 AM
But wait. Opening older versions of a document is a different animal altogether than having an app require a newer version of the OS than you have. That's not at all an accurate comparison as a response to the post you quoted.

What idiot is going to try and sell some new-fangled Lion-exclusive app that ignores 50% of Apple's market over the next couple of years? (See chart above).

Besides, Lion isn't some magical break through OS built from scratch. Damn near anything written for it will run on SL.

KnightWRX
Dec 12, 2011, 06:34 AM
Why are you trying to piss in everyone's cereal anyhow ? If you don't like Lion, stick to Snow Leopard and don't post in the Lion sub-forum ?

Seems easy enough to me.

iThinkergoiMac
Dec 12, 2011, 07:38 PM
What idiot is going to try and sell some new-fangled Lion-exclusive app that ignores 50% of Apple's market over the next couple of years? (See chart above).

Besides, Lion isn't some magical break through OS built from scratch. Damn near anything written for it will run on SL.

...

This addresses nothing in my post that you quoted...