FireFox vs. Safari (and IE I guess)

[pgc6000]

So which one do you like more? FireFox, Safari, Internet Explorer, or something else? Personally I like FireFox. FF works with websites much better then Safari, and is faster. It has some pretty neat skins and themes too. What about you guys?

[buryyourbrideau]

safari = winner

IE blows in all aspects including security

FF is not even needed, if you want to, you can enable debug mode on safari and have it operate as a different browser for a specific site

here is how to do it

Quit Safari.

Turn on Debug mode.

Then restart it. You'll see a "Debug" menu. Once at the banking site's main page, select Debug->User Agent->Windows MSIE 6.0. Edit: you might need to select this before going to the main page; some trial and error should work it out. Your encryption is fine; the bank just doesn't recognize our browser.

Odds are the site will work fine. Note that you need to do this every time you visit - the User Agent only is valid for that session/window.


here is the code to enter in terminal

defaults write com.apple.Safari IncludeDebugMenu 1

0 instead of 1 to turn it off

you are welcome :D

[James Philp]

Since Tiger, Safari.
Before that I had been using Camino a bit.
I find Safari 2 faster than any other browser for a lot of things, especially cold and warm start-up times. I have hardly found problems with Safari compatibility, and if I do I often find other browsers have difficulty too.
I'm sure this topic has been done to death though!

[GFLPraxis]

IE is dead.

Safari and FF each have their advantages, difficult to say one is absolutely better than the other.

[mkrishnan]

Yeah, I go back and forth. I'm on Safari right now. But part of that has to do with sites that I visit frequently and then stop going to for a while.... A lot has to do with PithHelmet vs. AdBlock for me. PithHelmet does a lot for you out of the box, without configuration. But AdBlock works better for me once I get it going. On my present daily list, it doesn't make much difference, but for instance, if I start going to NYT again, I don't like what AdBlock does with that page and I find it too cumbersome to futz with.... :(

OTOH, AcidSearch draws me to Safari over FF, because you can add new search sites soooo easily. :) I have a more sophisticated set of search sites in AcidSearch than I do in FF!

So anyway, for now, Safari. Maybe FF again soon.

[zap2]

i sue FF just to lazy to move to safaria(i liek the look of FF

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

I've used Safari since upgrading to Tiger (I had promised to give Safari 2 a try and since Firefox crashed horribly because of a plugin incompatibility it was very easy to hold that promise ;)).

I miss Adblock, Pithelmet was thrown out again after 10 minutes of trying, after crashing Safari twice, useless piece of cr*p that took all ads except the flash based, which was the only ones I really want to get rid of :rolleyes:, and I miss the Find (in page) bar from Firefox. But since getting AcidSearch I no longer miss the Search field I had gotten addicted to in Firefox. I also think Firefox feels a little less responsive in Tiger...

Maybe I have switched back to Safari, at least until Firefox 1.1 or maybe all the time until Firefox 2.0 is released... ;)

i sue FF just to lazy to move to safaria(i liek the look of FF :confused:

[auxplage]

I have Safari 1.3 which is supposedly almost the same as 2.0. I use optimzed builds of Camino, and it absolutely destroys Safari on almost all sites. That said, Safari is much more stable and renders a lot of pages much better.

[dubbz]

I mostly stick to Firefox, but I also make use of Safari and Camino if I feel like it. If I do some real heavy browsing I usually open all three. :) Mostly sticking to Firefox, since it's multiplatform.

I also happen to like Opera (I even paid for the ad-free version), but only on Windows. For some reason it just doesn't work as well on the Mac. I'm not really sure why...

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

I have Safari 1.3 which is supposedly almost the same as 2.0. I use optimzed builds of Camino, and it absolutely destroys Safari on almost all sites. That said, Safari is much more stable and renders a lot of pages much better.Disclaimer: I was a Firefox user under Panther, I haven't used 1.3 much (and I just cannot remember if they used the new engine in 1.3, too).

2.0 feels very different than 1.3, snappier and more solid at the same time (but of course Tiger can have some impact, too) even if it occasionally crashes when I close a tab.

And the RSS support in 2.0 is fantastic (they' didn't add RSS for 1.3, right?).

So, since 2.0 finally seems to work with my internet bank (which after an "upgrade" stopped working with Safari 1.x), the new engine in Safari 2 seems a lot better than the old 1.x one

[Bobak]

i just had to use IE on tiger to access http://www.odeon.co.uk/

[liquidtrance123]

If safari had adblock i'd definately be using that. But since it doesn't its 100% firefox for me.

Some of the ads out there if i use safari it uses up 100% of my 1.25Ghz G4 just to run the ads on the page...its pathetic. When safari gets adblock i'm all over it :p

[kgarner]

I use Safari for all my browsing. I just don't feel like I am using a Mac when I use Firefox on my Mac. Can't place it exactly, but it doesn't feel right to me. That said I keep a copy of Firefox handy for web development. The JavaScript Console is handy (I installed one for Safari, but it doesn't seem to work). On PCs it's Firefox all the way.

[sjpetry]

The optimized build of FF is faster so I use it. But of course Safari is nicer looking. :)

[feakbeak]

I'm still using Firefox even after the release of Safari 2. Here's a list of pros for each.

Firefox Pros:
- Better "Find" functionality
- I can't live without the mouse gestures plug-in
- I like the AdBlock plug-in but could live without it.
- Firefox is more efficient with resources, particularly RAM.

Safari Pros:
- The look and feel of Safari is better than FF, IMO.
- Seems to perform better with Flash apps and Java plug-ins. I sometimes have issues with these in FF.
- Love the new Dictionary integration in Tiger.

If Safari ever gets an improved "Find" feature and mouse gestures natively or via plug-in I will most likely switch to Safari. I also hope that Safari gets better with resource usage in the future, but as it stands now I would still be willing to use it if it had all the features I want. I wouldn't doubt the find feature gets improved soon, but considering that Apple is still only selling one-button mice I doubt mouse gesturing will be implemented natively and I don't see Safari going the plug-in route any time soon... so with Firefox I stay, for now.

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

feakbeak, I agree with the pros and cons, but you forgot to put the OS X built-in spell checker in Safari. That's a pro... :)

[Loge]

i just had to use IE on tiger to access http://www.odeon.co.uk/

Does not the text version of this site now work with Safari, letting you book tickets as well as check what's on?

[James Philp]

If Safari ever gets an improved "Find" feature
People have been talking about this:
AcidSearch

[NaMo4184]

I use Safari Even though i have tried all the other OS X browsers. When you have safari with Acid Search and safari buttons it is unbeatable. The only thing i feel that it is missing is a better RSS feed interface and a the ability to decide which files are safe files. If anyone knows how to edit that safe list please PM me.

[Mechcozmo]

Safari feels so much better than Firefox. The look of it...

Also, the bookmark system in Safari is damn near unbeatable. I use bookmarks quite a bit and they are really great in Safari. In Firefox, I hate using bookmarks. Too unwieldily. I do have Firefox "installed" however, along with Internet Explorer. I really do need to trash IE soon... but Firefox stays around for the sites that can't get their web development right.

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

If Safari ever gets an improved "Find" featurePeople have been talking about this:
AcidSearchI think he was referring to the Find -> Find... (i.e. on the page) and not Find -> Google Search... ;)

[mkrishnan]

Also, the bookmark system in Safari is damn near unbeatable. I use bookmarks quite a bit and they are really great in Safari. In Firefox, I hate using bookmarks. Too unwieldily. I do have Firefox "installed" however, along with Internet Explorer. I really do need to trash IE soon... but Firefox stays around for the sites that can't get their web development right.

Out of curiosity, what is it that bothers you about FF bookmarks? Is it the bookmarks manager? I think the one in Safari is definitely better on that front. But mostly they seem pretty equivalent to me. I routinely refresh whichever one I hadn't been using with the bookmarks from the other one, and I seem to be able to practically use bookmarks in a very similar fashion in both.

[mkrishnan]

I think he was referring to the Find -> Find... (i.e. on the page) and not Find -> Google Search... ;)

Of course, AcidSearch actually addresses both kinds of find. :) But it does a much better job with the google bar than with find as you type....

Reminds me.... in Safari 1.3, Acidsearch popped up a bar at the screen bottom, much like in FF, when doing find-as-you-type. I don't know if I forgot the setting or what, but in 2.0, all I get is text in the status bar, which isn't so nice. Does anyone else get a "find bar" docked to the bottom of the window using AcidSearch 0.41 and Safari 2.0?

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

I've only tried AcidSearch 0.41 with Safari 2.0. And I've never seen any "Find bar", like the one you get in Firefox, or gotten any find-as-you-type function to work. I do love the superior way AcidSearch lets you add search engines to the "Google window", far better than Firefox' solution, but I do miss the Find bar, too. :(

[mkrishnan]

I've only tried AcidSearch 0.41 with Safari 2.0. And I've never seen any "Find bar", like the one you get in Firefox, or gotten any find-as-you-type function to work. I do love the superior way AcidSearch lets you add search engines to the "Google window", far better than Firefox' solution, but I do miss the Find bar, too. :(

I could've sworn that in 1.3, if you enabled "Show Input Box," you would get a bar like in FF.... But I could very well be wrong. :(

[Mechcozmo]

Out of curiosity, what is it that bothers you about FF bookmarks? Is it the bookmarks manager? I think the one in Safari is definitely better on that front. But mostly they seem pretty equivalent to me. I routinely refresh whichever one I hadn't been using with the bookmarks from the other one, and I seem to be able to practically use bookmarks in a very similar fashion in both.

I can use command-key shortcuts in Safari. Less than 5 seconds and I have all the browsing I'm gonna do in the next 15 minutes open. (Gmail, MacRumors, various RSS feeds combined into one) and also the folder system in terms of creating and adding bookmarks to the folders is so much easier. I have had issues figuring out how to do that in Firefox. Safari is much more intuitive.

[mkrishnan]

I can use command-key shortcuts in Safari.

Ahhh, thanks for enlightening me. I hadn't even thought of that! I could see how it could be very useful. :)

[iindigo]

I don't know why everyone is saying Safari needs an adblock plugin - it certainly doesn't need one. Just download the adblocking CSS sylesheet at http://floppymoose.com/ and apply it in the Safari prefs. Boom! instant adblocking that even kills Google ads. :D

As for what browser I use, I almost always use Safari. The only exceptions is when I'm testing my own browser (surfDude) or the occasianal site that won't work in Safari, then I use Camino. Under --no-- circumstances would I use Firefox on the Mac - it still has a LONG way to go before it's truly Mac friendly.

[iBlue]

I use FireFox, Camino and Safari - each has their own advantage and it depends on what I am doing. FF is pretty versatile so I like that aspect. Camino is a great alternative and cross between FF and Safari, I recently started using it and really like it. Safari is simple, elegant and powerful in its own right, plus it just "feels" right, I know what that other poster meant by that, completely.

So I always have 3 browsers going at any given time, I'm indecisive, what can I say? :p

[EGT]

Safari is awesome. I really love it :)
I used IE when i first bought my Mac but then i discovered safari and have been using it ever since.

I never really need to use another browser. Once or twice i've had to use firefox because a site hasn't worked with safari but this rarely happens.

I'm still on Panther btw, so looking forward to Safari 2.0 :D

[poundsmack]

we cant forget Opera. now thats a great browser

[Windowlicker]

safari = winner

IE blows in all aspects including security

FF is not even needed, if you want to, you can enable debug mode on safari and have it operate as a different browser for a specific site

here is how to do it

Quit Safari.

Turn on Debug mode.

Then restart it. You'll see a "Debug" menu. Once at the banking site's main page, select Debug->User Agent->Windows MSIE 6.0. Edit: you might need to select this before going to the main page; some trial and error should work it out. Your encryption is fine; the bank just doesn't recognize our browser.

Odds are the site will work fine. Note that you need to do this every time you visit - the User Agent only is valid for that session/window.


here is the code to enter in terminal

defaults write com.apple.Safari IncludeDebugMenu 1

0 instead of 1 to turn it off

you are welcome :D

And this is easier than just having FF lying around for cases when needed?!

[mkrishnan]

And this is easier than just having FF lying around for cases when needed?!

Actually, the agent thing is really not a solution for the same kinds of problems as having FF around. FF is good when there is a site that the Safari engine doesn't like for some reason (usually this means the site flaunts standards and FF is more forgiving than Safari). The agent spoofing is good for when a site has JS or somesuch that tries to make sure you are using IE for compatibility, but in fact doesn't do anything that really needs IE.

[Mechcozmo]

And this is easier than just having FF lying around for cases when needed?!

You get quite a bit more with the Debug menu than just that stuff.

Here's a screenshot of the menu (Did this by: opened the menu, Command+Shift+4, then Spacebar, then clicked on the menu)
http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=24645&stc=1

That transparent screen option is freakin' awesome! But entirely useless. :confused:

[mkrishnan]

That transparent screen option is freakin' awesome! But entirely useless. :confused:

It was meant originally for Panther users using Safari as a test lab for widgets that had strange shapes, so you could see the strange shape floating rather than containerized....

But just to back up the always insightful Mechcozmo, yes, the debug menu does tons-o-neat stuff, even if I still say the agent thing solves an almost completely different problem than keeping FF as a backup does.

[Mechcozmo]

But just to back up the always insightful Mechcozmo, yes, the debug menu does tons-o-neat stuff

Talkin' about me?

Yeah, the thingamajigs in that menu are amazing. I love the "Go to about:blank Soon" one. It is just... :rolleyes:

Anyways, the Debug menu is also great for that Snippet editor but I don't get the difference between the two buttons. One converts and one shows you the HTML you typed in the top in the bottom. Eh? :confused:

[mkrishnan]

Talkin' about me?

Yeah, the thingamajigs in that menu are amazing. I love the "Go to about:blank Soon" one. It is just... :rolleyes:

Anyways, the Debug menu is also great for that Snippet editor but I don't get the difference between the two buttons. One converts and one shows you the HTML you typed in the top in the bottom. Eh? :confused:

Hmmm...the go to about:blank one doesn't seem to have any obvious use to me. LOL, it's very Mission Impossible, with its pinging sound. This thread will self destruct in five, four, three, two, one! :D I assume a developer might use it for something though. Maybe there are cases where it will rescue Safari from an apparent lockup because of bad flash/js/applet code?

Ya got me on the snippet editor. :) Oooh, actually, I found a strange difference. If you put an a href tag in, in convert, it shows you text formatting, but no links. In show, the link is also preserved.... But I don't get what the point is. To what is convert converting??? :D

[witness]

FireFox is much more reliable than Safari 2, but Safari has inbuilt spell checking and a better RSS reader (although the 2 finger scroll doesn't work very well when viewing an RSS feed). So at the moment I need both, at least until Safari gets more reliable.

Another thing that Safari does not support is the "contentEditable" attribute. Apple really should add this, wysiwyg editors rarely work in Safari.

[Mechcozmo]

FireFox is much more reliable than Safari 2, but Safari has inbuilt spell checking and a better RSS reader (although the 2 finger scroll doesn't work very well when viewing an RSS feed). So at the moment I need both, at least until Safari gets more reliable.

iScroll 2 works great for me. Play with your settings? Or do you have a Rev. D 12"/17" or Rev. C 15"? (Latest and Greatest)

[Mechcozmo]

Hmmm...the go to about:blank one doesn't seem to have any obvious use to me. LOL, it's very Mission Impossible, with its pinging sound. This thread will self destruct in five, four, three, two, one! :D I assume a developer might use it for something though. Maybe there are cases where it will rescue Safari from an apparent lockup because of bad flash/js/applet code?

Ya got me on the snippet editor. :) Oooh, actually, I found a strange difference. If you put an a href tag in, in convert, it shows you text formatting, but no links. In show, the link is also preserved.... But I don't get what the point is. To what is convert converting??? :D

I think the about:blank is a great way to get your friends to freak out by using some as-yet hidden code. Command+Option+[Build #]+Control+S ? :p

The snippet editor is a handy tool to see what some HTML will look like without firing up an editor like Nvu. I always just press both the buttons... :rolleyes: ...worked so far. :D

[witness]

iScroll 2 works great for me. Play with your settings? Or do you have a Rev. D 12"/17" or Rev. C 15"? (Latest and Greatest)
I have the latest 17" PowerBook with the new style touchpad. Everything scrolls fine except for RSS pages in Safari, I'm sure that it's a software problem with Safari, I've had 3 of these powerbooks in the last month and they all had the same problem.

[wrldwzrd89]

I use Safari exclusively, with no add-ons other than a modified hosts file. I also keep Shiira (http://hmdt-web.net/shiira/index-e.html) around just in case I feel like using it.

[gangst]

I'm not 100% sure on this, but the reason I don't use Firefox is because I can't use the back keyboard shortcut like I can in safari.

[1macker1]

I use Safari, but I think its just as bad as FF (buggy), IE(outdated), because you can't right click in the browser to get "Back" "forward" "reload" options. Having to move my mouse to the top of the browser everytime SUCKS!

[lom8104]

This may seem caddy but I prefer firefox over safari because of the ease of switching between tabs in FF. Alt-tab can be done with one hand and is a lot easier than shift-apple-arrow keys. If it is possible to remap this control in safari then i would probably use safari.

BTW is there a utility out there that could sync my bookmarks betweeb ff and safari?

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

I'm not 100% sure on this, but the reason I don't use Firefox is because I can't use the back keyboard shortcut like I can in safari.
What are you talking about? I can use cmd-leftarrow in both Safari and Firefox... :confused:

[Soulstorm]

At first, before Firefox, I used Safari, and I was fine. Later, when firefox came out, I abandoned Safari, because firefox was faster. And it had other cool features like more themes, extensions etc.

But it wasn't stable as safari, especially in other sites apart from the english and american ones.

Now, with Tiger, I use Safari 2. Surprisingly, it is a lot faster than the older safari, and a little more fast than Firefox. Also, it is more stable. Although many people say that safari crashes a lot under tiger, I haven't had such problems. Safari is able to open more tabs at once than Firefox does, and some sites perform better in safari, too.

I see no reason why I should get back to Firefox.

There was a time I used Microsoft's IE. Well, I must congratulate microsoft... It should have taken much effort to develop a program such crappy as this one. Aren't they ashamed of what they have done?

[mkrishnan]

The snippet editor is a handy tool to see what some HTML will look like without firing up an editor like Nvu. I always just press both the buttons... :rolleyes: ...worked so far. :D

I should use it when I'm putting HTML into my MySpace or something like that... :)

What are you talking about? I can use cmd-leftarrow in both Safari and Firefox...

Cmd-left/right works consistently in Safari and FF, but in Safari and IE, backspace also takes you back a page.

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Cmd-left/right works consistently in Safari and FF, but in Safari and IE, backspace also takes you back a page.Ok... never tried that... I only use backspace for deleting thing... ;)

[dubbz]

I use Safari exclusively, with no add-ons other than a modified hosts file. I also keep Shiira (http://hmdt-web.net/shiira/index-e.html) around just in case I feel like using it.

Totally forgot about that one! It's been ages since I last tried it. Got to check out what's new.

we cant forget Opera. now thats a great browser

It's a great browser on Windows, but IMO it just doesn't fit very well into Mac OS X. I haven't tested Opera 8 on OS X, so maybe it's improved.

One thing I love about Opera is its session handling. Even if it crash, it really doesn't matter. It will remember and reopen all the sites, even remembering where on the page I was!
If FF or Safari crash with a lot of tabs open, I silently curse to myself. If Opera crash, I just shrug and reopen it, and everything is well.
I've tried an extension for FF that provides some of the same abilities, but it doesn't always work right and was kind of buggy last time I tried it.

[Mechcozmo]

I have the latest 17" PowerBook with the new style touchpad. Everything scrolls fine except for RSS pages in Safari, I'm sure that it's a software problem with Safari, I've had 3 of these powerbooks in the last month and they all had the same problem.

Ah. My Rev. C 12" PowerBook (last-gen) has no issues. I use iScroll 2 so that I can use the two-finger-scrolling.

[JoeUK]

I only use Camino these days. At first when I got my Mac I used Firefox as I was really used to it from my windows days, but the Camino nightly builds are just a lot faster, and actually feel like Mac apps. I probably would use Safari, now I've demetalfied it, if you could open up bookmark bar links in new tabs. It's ridiculous you can't do this. A minor annoyance is you can't bookmark groups of tabs.

[wrldwzrd89]

I only use Camino these days. At first when I got my Mac I used Firefox as I was really used to it from my windows days, but the Camino nightly builds are just a lot faster, and actually feel like Mac apps. I probably would use Safari, now I've demetalfied it, if you could open up bookmark bar links in new tabs. It's ridiculous you can't do this. A minor annoyance is you can't bookmark groups of tabs.
You sure can open a bookmark bar link in a new tab in Safari - just hold down the Apple (also known as the Command) key when you click on it.

[PCMacUser]

Safari feels so much better than Firefox. The look of it...

Also, the bookmark system in Safari is damn near unbeatable. I use bookmarks quite a bit and they are really great in Safari. In Firefox, I hate using bookmarks. Too unwieldily. I do have Firefox "installed" however, along with Internet Explorer. I really do need to trash IE soon... but Firefox stays around for the sites that can't get their web development right.
I'm not sure if anyone's already mentioned it, but the fact that you can't automatically alphabetise Safari bookmarks in Tiger without spending £££ on some 3rd party software really annoys me! Extra points to Firefox for having this feature (as does IE).

[PCMacUser]

This may seem caddy but I prefer firefox over safari because of the ease of switching between tabs in FF. Alt-tab can be done with one hand and is a lot easier than shift-apple-arrow keys. If it is possible to remap this control in safari then i would probably use safari.

I like Firefox's tab handling - particularly the way it warns you if you are about to close the browser with multiple tabs open - Safari just closes the lot without warning. Oops.

[wrldwzrd89]

I like Firefox's tab handling - particularly the way it warns you if you are about to close the browser with multiple tabs open - Safari just closes the lot without warning. Oops.
I actually never used or had a need for this feature; I agree with you that having it as an option in Safari would be a good thing.

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

I like Firefox's tab handling - particularly the way it warns you if you are about to close the browser with multiple tabs open - Safari just closes the lot without warning. Oops.Try Taboo (http://www.ocdev.com/). Works for me... :)

[JoeUK]

You sure can open a bookmark bar link in a new tab in Safari - just hold down the Apple (also known as the Command) key when you click on it.
Yeah I've tried that, it's the same way you do it in Camino or Firefox. But in Safari it just opens it in the current window. :confused:

[wrldwzrd89]

Yeah I've tried that, it's the same way you do it in Camino or Firefox. But in Safari it just opens it in the current window. :confused:
Weird. It doesn't work with folders in the Bookmarks Bar (or the links inside them), but it does with regular bookmarks.

[dubbz]

...but the Camino nightly builds are just a lot faster, and actually feel like Mac apps...

Seems like I had and old build, because I just downloaded the latest nightly and it seemed much faster! Even when typing stuff into the message box, it seems faster and more responsive. Plus, I like the new Platinum look.