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MacRumors
Jan 13, 2012, 08:52 AM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/01/13/singapore-carriers-to-offer-camera-less-iphone-4s-models/)


The Jakarta Globe reports (http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/tech/singapore-iphone-without-camera-for-sale-telcos-plan-to-launch-device-soon/490988) that Apple's three carrier partners in Singapore are making plans to offer iPhone 4S models lacking cameras, with the move said to be targeting members of the military who are prohibited from bringing camera-equipped phones onto their bases. Carrier M1 even briefly offered camera-less models on its website earlier this week.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/01/m1_singapore_no_camera_iphone_4s.jpg


"iPhone 4S Non Camera" listing on M1's site (Source: CNET Asia (http://asia.cnet.com/crave/m1-to-offer-non-camera-iphone-4s-62213000.htm))
The camera-less phones are not, however, an officially-sanctioned product offered by Apple, as the carriers are simply removing the cameras from the standard devices before sale and charging a premium for the service. The modification also voids Apple's warranty on the device.Following a year-long review, Mindef [the Singapore Defense Ministry] recently issued guidelines to its servicemen on the use of such smartphones.

It is understood that servicemen with these phones must show a certificate to prove that their handsets were modified by any one of the local telcos.

Last September, Mindef spokesman Desmond Tan told The Straits Times that Mindef and the SAF were 'exploring ways to allow our personnel to use smartphones while maintaining our current security policy on disallowing personal image-capturing devices to be used on Mindef/SAF premises'.Singapore is of course not alone in its restrictions on camera-enabled phones, as many other governments and private companies place restrictions on such devices in sensitive locations. But the effort by Singapore's carriers appears to be the most official and organized attempt to address those needs for iPhone users.

Article Link: Singapore Carriers to Offer Camera-less iPhone 4S Models (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/01/13/singapore-carriers-to-offer-camera-less-iphone-4s-models/)



3bs
Jan 13, 2012, 08:57 AM
I'm guessing they do this with both the front and back cameras? Do they replace the back and front with pieces that don't have holes for the camera? I think that would solve the problem of needing a certificate to verify that the cameras were actually removed. If they can make back plates with the apple logo being transparent to allow it to shine then I don't see why they can't make ones without the holes for the camera.

campingsk8er
Jan 13, 2012, 09:17 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3)

I like how they're camera-less iPhone has instagram as one of the apps in notification center

Kabeyun
Jan 13, 2012, 09:59 AM
I also like how M1's photo shows an iPhone with a forward-facing camera. :rolleyes:

M-O
Jan 13, 2012, 10:08 AM
I also like how M1's photo shows an iPhone with a forward-facing camera. :rolleyes:

that's not the camera, its the camera window. you'd need a completely redesigned case if you want to remove those.

zodiaque
Jan 13, 2012, 10:29 AM
i wonder how much they get for selling those cameras on ebay...

SimonTheSoundMa
Jan 13, 2012, 10:34 AM
Plenty of corporate and government institutions around the world have a no camera policy. Apple in the UK sell iMacs and MacBook Pro computers that have no cameras or mics.

cvaldes
Jan 13, 2012, 10:43 AM
I'm guessing they do this with both the front and back cameras? Do they replace the back and front with pieces that don't have holes for the camera? I think that would solve the problem of needing a certificate to verify that the cameras were actually removed. If they can make back plates with the apple logo being transparent to allow it to shine then I don't see why they can't make ones without the holes for the camera.
The front and back plates are glass; the openings for the camera lens are just sections that haven't been painted over black or white. You just paint over them or maybe just affix electricians tape.

i wonder how much they get for selling those cameras on ebay...
The iSuppli BOM estimate for the iPhone 4S (http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/News/Pages/iPhone-4S-Carries-BOM-of-$188,-IHS-iSuppli-Teardown-Analysis-Reveals.aspx) lists the estimated cost at $17.60 for the camera module.

Anonymous Freak
Jan 13, 2012, 11:09 AM
that's not the camera, its the camera window. you'd need a completely redesigned case if you want to remove those.

Or, they could just be using the stock Apple photos, rather than taking their own photos.

nateo200
Jan 13, 2012, 11:21 AM
US Federal buildings often prohibit cameras as well. A friend of mines dad is a federal prosecutor and every time I enter his building I get hosed down of anything with a camera....
Blackberry has long been selling models of their phone with both a camera option and a no camera option for that reason. I don't see why Apple can't offer that option...I mean its not their style but its relatively easy to do. Back camera is an easy fix; change the backplate and the front camera might be a bit more difficult but still do-able and just sell it with an OS that doesn't have the camera app....

mijail
Jan 13, 2012, 11:32 AM
Or, they could just be using the stock Apple photos, rather than taking their own photos.

Given that the photo shows the weather in Cupertino, yep, that's what it looks like.

rmwebs
Jan 13, 2012, 11:40 AM
Apple in the UK sell iMacs and MacBook Pro computers that have no cameras or mics.

Do they? Never seen/heard that...I'm assuming its to-order only as the stores and site dont show any option to not have a camera/mic.

delnerdo
Jan 13, 2012, 11:51 AM
AFAIK Apple displays all have built-in cameras now and you apparently cannot simply disconnect the cable. I would think Apple should make a no-camera option for their displays too, no? How hard can it be?

Teo Morabito
Jan 13, 2012, 11:59 AM
I'll buy it if it's mic less too ;)

candid7
Jan 13, 2012, 12:34 PM
hi everyone am new who would like to dive me a tour bcos i don't know wat am doing and thats not a camera bcos it doesnt have a camera app and i haven seen it before

----------

hi teo
:o:)

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hi 3bs am new would u like to teach me how to use the macrumors

iEvolution
Jan 13, 2012, 12:49 PM
My work has a cameraless policy too wish they would make more phones without cameras as I don't use it anyway and it would drive the price down a bit.

coder12
Jan 13, 2012, 12:52 PM
So... what if someone buys a camera-less device, gets a certificate proving that their device lacks a camera, and then puts cameras back into the device...?

Hmm?

edit: this case would only be likely if the carrier leaves the holes for both cameras intact.

Also, does this remove the camera's flash as well?

Rodimus Prime
Jan 13, 2012, 02:38 PM
Do they? Never seen/heard that...I'm assuming its to-order only as the stores and site dont show any option to not have a camera/mic.

It is easier to do on computers as the camera and mic location is pretty easy and all they have to do is not drill out a hole for them for the front plat as well. not so much for the phones and phones are much more mass production than a computer is.

US Federal buildings often prohibit cameras as well. A friend of mines dad is a federal prosecutor and every time I enter his building I get hosed down of anything with a camera....
Blackberry has long been selling models of their phone with both a camera option and a no camera option for that reason. I don't see why Apple can't offer that option...I mean its not their style but its relatively easy to do. Back camera is an easy fix; change the backplate and the front camera might be a bit more difficult but still do-able and just sell it with an OS that doesn't have the camera app....


The only company that is big on it is blackberry but their bread and butter is enterprise and security so they take care of that market before they even touch the consumer market.
I want to say some MS power phones do it as well but they general are custom orders from different manufactures. I just do not see Apple bothering to do it as it is would not be a large enough money maker.

justperry
Jan 14, 2012, 12:11 AM
Why make it difficult by removing both camera's while you can do it much easier.

Options:
They could for instance ask Apple to remove the drivers (APi's) for the camera.

Damage the lens with an abrasive solution, yes that is possible.

Use a reasonable low powered laser to damage the sensor chip inside the camera, I am not an expert on this but think a 300 Mw laser would do the trick.

Use a small drill to damage the camera but this one is a bit brutal.

The best of the above options would probably the laser one, I don't own an iPhone but I think the front camera is not accessible so can't be done with the other above options.

Edit : I had the Mw wrong, of course its (300) mW

sk8mash
Jan 14, 2012, 05:26 AM
Why make it difficult by removing both camera's while you can do it much easier.

Options:
They could for instance ask Apple to remove the drivers (APi's) for the camera.

Damage the lens with an abrasive solution, yes that is possible.

Use a reasonable low powered laser to damage the sensor chip inside the camera, I am not an expert on this but think a 300 Mw laser would do the trick.

Use a small drill to damage the camera but this one is a bit brutal.

The best of the above options would probably the laser one, I don't own an iPhone but I think the front camera is not accessible so can't be done with the other above options.

A 300MW laser would instantly melt the whole phone...if they made them haha

justperry
Jan 15, 2012, 12:12 AM
A 300MW laser would instantly melt the whole phone...if they made them haha

Thanks for pointing Me out the mistake HaHa;)

Edited My post (300 mW)

Yup 300MWatts would not only instantly melt the Phone but also blow the whole Building:eek:

People make mistakes, one common mistake is Gb versus GB for instance.

sk8mash
Jan 15, 2012, 05:17 AM
Thanks for pointing Me out the mistake HaHa;)

Edited My post (300 mW)

Yup 300MWatts would not only instantly melt the Phone but also blow the whole Building:eek:

People make mistakes, one common mistake is Gb versus GB for instance.

I just found the idea of a 300MW laser quite funny...no hard feelings!

Thex1138
Jan 15, 2012, 06:23 PM
A 300MW laser would instantly melt the whole phone...if they made them haha
20-50 MW would destroy the optical sensor without trashing the glass...

Imagine Sweatshops with iFixit tool kits dismantling iPhones and prying out CMOS cameras... do they realize it's a closed circuit... :D

Should be fun to watch... I wonder if the Slingapore Apple shop will accept exchanges :D

Kwill
Jan 15, 2012, 10:59 PM
Yes, remove the camera but keep the GPS for safety. :rolleyes:

sk8mash
Jan 16, 2012, 07:49 AM
20-50 MW would destroy the optical sensor without trashing the glass...

Really?

mkrishnan
Jan 16, 2012, 08:06 AM
I just found the idea of a 300MW laser quite funny...no hard feelings!

It all depends on how long that kind of power is output. High peak power lasers that are table-top sized were able to put out 10-100 times that much power more than a decade ago, but only for a very short period of time (femtoseconds).

You probably could trash the cameras with a laser, yes, without trashing the phone, but it seems like an awful lot of trouble. It would make more sense for Apple and others to just cave and make "government" versions available without cameras like, as others pointed out, is apparently already done for the computers.

Consultant
Jan 16, 2012, 02:34 PM
So... what if someone buys a camera-less device, gets a certificate proving that their device lacks a camera, and then puts cameras back into the device...?

Hmm?

edit: this case would only be likely if the carrier leaves the holes for both cameras intact.

Also, does this remove the camera's flash as well?

Camera and LED flash is the same module.

They usually fill the hole.

bossxii
Jan 16, 2012, 08:20 PM
The cost is minimal for the front and back cameras. No one is going to save money trying to buy camera less iPhones. OEM parts are fairly cheap, as in less than $20 for both, the only thing not for sale is the logic board from the OEM maker.

iSayuSay
Jan 16, 2012, 11:52 PM
For whatever reason, this still pretty stupid.

1. The iPhone cost is not getting cheaper by modifying the current 4S into camera-less model by whatever means.
Instead the price is going UP because they need additional cost for removing the camera :rolleyes: ... super nice, huh?

And iPhone camera is one of the best camera sensor for a phone out there. Taking it off, or covering it is just like removing ECU from your Ferrari engine.

Remember in Singapore, many people pay upfront to get an unlocked iPhone. So yeah, they swallow $900 price upfront for a 64GB iPhone, and camera less?

2. They claim this camera less iPhone going to lose warranty due to the modification. dable you tee eff to that!! .... :rolleyes::rolleyes:

3. If military asking this for security, why not removing GPS and cell radio too? You know, people can spy your camp location via GPS. So yeah, you really should remove that too. Make it on Airplane Mode all the time .. nice huh? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

4. So ... Let's sum this up: Stripped down camera, still not cheaper (it's more expensive indeed), voiding official warranty, still be able to track location via GPS/cell tower for not so secure connection.. pointless, wouldn't you say? Like paying ugly cheapo stripped down Hyundai while you can get a Ferrari for $300.000.

If I were a military staff, I'd go with super cheap feature phone for professional text/call, and iPhone for personal use. Good thing they remove the plan (at least temporarily).

adamberti
Jan 18, 2012, 10:06 AM
This seems way to extreme....

Just treat the situation like corporations do and use the tools Apple has provided.

With Mobile Device Management (Profile Manager, iPCU, or many other third parties), you can disable the camera. If you go work for a big company with secrets, they require you to install profiles on your iPhone. These can automatically setup the email accounts, provide VPN settings, etc. They can also disable the camera.

So instead of buying a modified phone and having poor resale value, no warranty, and no camera if or when you leave the military.... just require your members to install this profile. You can set that profile so it can't be removed without wiping the phone.

Yes, you can wipe the phone and get your camera back and bring it to work... but you can also trade your phone with someone else, you could reinstall the camera... or buy new phone. if you want to beat the system, you'll find a way. You just want a way to stop the day to day rule breakers.

justperry
Jan 20, 2012, 10:05 AM
This seems way to extreme....

Just treat the situation like corporations do and use the tools Apple has provided.

With Mobile Device Management (Profile Manager, iPCU, or many other third parties), you can disable the camera. If you go work for a big company with secrets, they require you to install profiles on your iPhone. These can automatically setup the email accounts, provide VPN settings, etc. They can also disable the camera.

So instead of buying a modified phone and having poor resale value, no warranty, and no camera if or when you leave the military.... just require your members to install this profile. You can set that profile so it can't be removed without wiping the phone.

Yes, you can wipe the phone and get your camera back and bring it to work... but you can also trade your phone with someone else, you could reinstall the camera... or buy new phone. if you want to beat the system, you'll find a way. You just want a way to stop the day to day rule breakers.

So, there is your answer, the Sg military wants to be 100% sure the camera is disabled and it is not when you can for instance just reset the phone or worse jailbreak and enable the camera again.

adamberti
Jan 20, 2012, 02:53 PM
So, there is your answer, the Sg military wants to be 100% sure the camera is disabled and it is not when you can for instance just reset the phone or worse jailbreak and enable the camera again.

Or you could buy the parts online and reinstall.... or trade with a friend.... or fake your certificate.... There's a million ways. What I'm saying is, since there's no fool proof way to stop it, why goto such an extreme? The goal is stop photos of opportunity... just like a lock on my front door stops crimes of opportunity. If someone really wants to steal from my house, they will. From a sys admin point of view, you'll know when that device is no longer part of your system and doesn't 'check in'. You'll know they've wiped it and you can tell them that,

If someone wants a camera on the base because there's a picture they know they have to take, they will find a way.

Make it simple for the average person. Don't make them buy a warranty lacking modified phone that they can't use fully after they leave the military.

justperry
Jan 20, 2012, 09:46 PM
Or you could buy the parts online and reinstall.... or trade with a friend.... or fake your certificate.... There's a million ways. What I'm saying is, since there's no fool proof way to stop it, why goto such an extreme? The goal is stop photos of opportunity... just like a lock on my front door stops crimes of opportunity. If someone really wants to steal from my house, they will. From a sys admin point of view, you'll know when that device is no longer part of your system and doesn't 'check in'. You'll know they've wiped it and you can tell them that,

If someone wants a camera on the base because there's a picture they know they have to take, they will find a way.

Make it simple for the average person. Don't make them buy a warranty lacking modified phone that they can't use fully after they leave the military.

Agree

But what is there to loose for Sg military, they got overrun once and will get overrun again, it is just a tiny state and the military is very small.

Not that I want them to get overrun, I actually like Sg.

adamberti
Jan 21, 2012, 12:17 PM
Agree

But what is there to loose for Sg military, they got overrun once and will get overrun again, it is just a tiny state and the military is very small.

Not that I want them to get overrun, I actually like Sg.

Yeah - I like it too - travelled through for a week a few years back. When you're the military you can make whatever rules you want!