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farmerdoug
Feb 1, 2012, 05:03 AM
What happen to the Xcode 3option in FILE to open files?



jiminaus
Feb 1, 2012, 05:16 AM
Am I not getting something in your question?

farmerdoug
Feb 1, 2012, 09:42 AM
Obviously, but Xcode 3 had open recent files and well as open recent projects.
It seems that they made Xcode 4 much less user friendly, targeting high powered application developers, not hackers like me.

robvas
Feb 1, 2012, 09:46 AM
Obviously, but Xcode 3 had open recent files and well as open recent projects.
It seems that they made Xcode 4 much less user friendly, targeting high powered application developers, not hackers like me.

Seriously?

farmerdoug
Feb 1, 2012, 10:00 AM
Yes seriously, the interface is far too complicated- having far more information than I would ever use.

The directory structure has become Byzantine.
The executables are placed some where in left field make them difficult to find for command line running.

The change from Xcode 3 to 4 had done absolutely nothing for me as a user.

KnightWRX
Feb 1, 2012, 10:03 AM
XCode is a IDE, it's not meant to be friendly, it's meant to be powerful.

As a hacker, you should have no trouble with XCode.

farmerdoug
Feb 1, 2012, 10:11 AM
I get what I need out of it but newer is not always better. In this case Xcode3 was sufficient for me and I'd rather have it back.

jiminaus
Feb 1, 2012, 02:03 PM
Obviously, but Xcode 3 had open recent files and well as open recent projects.

No, not obviously, at least not from your initial question. Why didn't you tell us this necessary detail in the first place?

If you're using XCode correctly, you rarely need to use these commands because everything you need should be in the project you're working on.


It seems that they made Xcode 4 much less user friendly, targeting high powered application developers, not hackers like me.

Yes, you're not the target audience.


The executables are placed some where in left field make them difficult to find for command line running.

You can revert XCode 4.2 to something similar to the XCode 3 behaviour. Changed the derived data location from default to relative in XCode's preferences.

farmerdoug
Feb 1, 2012, 02:10 PM
I'm not coherent in the best of times; this is definitely not the best of times for me.
Always grateful
doug

Red Menace
Feb 1, 2012, 02:33 PM
Tabs are your friend. There is a lot of stuff in there that I don't use, but I'm finding it a lot easier after reading the documentation and figuring out what I can do to tailor the interface - and I'm not even up to hacker standards. The help is also a bit better and you can always show any file in the Finder.

When I first saw Xcode 4, I also thought I would have to keep a copy of Xcode 3 around, but I haven't looked back.

chown33
Feb 1, 2012, 02:57 PM
Xcode 4 Transition Guide (http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/IDEs/Conceptual/Xcode4TransitionGuide/).
Xcode Quick Start Guide (http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/IDEs/Conceptual/xcode_quick_start/).

farmerdoug
Feb 2, 2012, 05:32 AM
I don't understand. You are supposed to read the manuals?
I once opened a box to find a piece of paper that said : "For those of you that don't read manuals: READ THIS FIRST".

Clearly reading is a good idea. The days are over when you could easy figure things out by scanning the menu bar. When I have to go three layers down to do something, I am in trouble. Definitely violates the KISS principle.

A problem I find with all this, is that when I search the documentation for help specific to my needs, I am overwhelmed with links to iphones and ipads and all sort of things that I didn't know even existed - let alone need. I still have yet to find where the man pages are for C code functions in XCode 4.

Chown: if I'm smart I will look at the documentations you sent. It remains to be seen how smart I am. Besides, I have to find out to get the data from adjacent spectra from slipping into each other. Fortunately, you guys are always there for me.

KnightWRX
Feb 2, 2012, 06:28 AM
I don't understand. You are supposed to read the manuals?
[...]
The days are over when you could easy figure things out by scanning the menu bar. When I have to go three layers down to do something, I am in trouble. Definitely violates the KISS principle.

You do realise we're talking about programming and the tools to do with here right ?

I have a book (yes a whole book) on how to write a proper Makefile. Let alone the material about GNU's autoconf and automake which "streamline" the creation of complex Makefiles for bigger projects with dependencies...

Then there's the whole pesky language you have to learn, the APIs...

If you don't like reading, I don't think programming is what you need to be getting into.

----------

I still have yet to find where the man pages are for C code functions in XCode 4.


Same place they have always been. The man command is adept at finding them, just type "man function" into your favorite command interpreter.

farmerdoug
Feb 2, 2012, 09:21 AM
Please understand that much of the time I am being factious.

To serious issues.


In Xcode 3 you could go to the man page for a c function from the help tab. I haven't found it in Xcode4. Xcode 4 was no help. I've not googled it yet.


"I don't think programming is what you need to be getting into." I wrote my first programs on punch cards so I think we can conclude that its too late to worry about getting into coding.

My c coding now, I as far as I know doesn't use anything beyond what's in K&R.
All I want from these GUI's is a decent editor. I like the colors but that's about it. I don't want most, if not all of the bells and whistles: the auto complete; auto suggest; the real time compiling which is faster to find an error that find out that you've fixed it; the auto tabbing. I find most of these features distracting and I haven't figure out how to turn off them off or haven't looked hard enough but I didn't find it in preferences. (Forgive the run-on sentence) Past the editor, I just want a way to add libraries, a save button, a build button, and a run button. I imagine if I learned how to use the debugger I would be better off but there, too, I have found them so complicated compared to older ones that I rather just use print statements.
What might really help, color coded brakets, parenthesis and curly brackets have yet to show up.

As far make files go. Here is the make file I use for one code. I do not foresee needing anything more complicated.

#Makefile for the Project 1640 data pipeline

PIPELINEPATH = PIPELINEDIR=.
DATAPATH = ROOTDATADIR=/DATA0/PHASE2DATA
LIBRARYPATH = LIBRARYDIR=./LIBRARY

CC = gcc -arch x86_64
CFLAGS = -Wall -g -O1
IDIR = ./include
LIBS = -lm -lcfitsio -lgsl -lgslcblas -lmpfit -lfftw3

EXECS = pcxp
OBJS = pcxp.o

pcxp: pcxp.c
${CC} ${CFLAGS} -I${IDIR} -D${PIPELINEPATH} -D${DATAPATH} -D${LIBRARYPATH} pcxp.c ${LIBS} -o pcxp
# ${CC} ${CFLAGS} -I${IDIR} -DMEMWATCH -D${PIPELINEPATH} -D${DATAPATH} -D${LIBRARYPATH} pcxp.c memwatch.c ${LIBS} -o pcxp

all: ${EXECS}

clean:
rm -f ${OBJS} ${EXECS}

farmerdoug
Feb 2, 2012, 09:44 AM
More X-4 crap.
I can't open more than one .c or .h file, if it's not part of an X-4 project?

robvas
Feb 2, 2012, 10:24 AM
More X-4 crap.
I can't open more than one .c or .h file, if it's not part of an X-4 project?

I just opened 5 .m files that were all over the place on my hard drive. I think you just like complaining.

Why don't you install Xcode 3?

KnightWRX
Feb 2, 2012, 10:42 AM
All I want from these GUI's is a decent editor.

Then why are you using a full blown IDE ? (http://code.google.com/p/macvim/)

farmerdoug
Feb 2, 2012, 11:53 AM
Guilty as charged. However I went to open, opened a .c file; then went back and opened a .h file. The .c file was closed. However, I repeated the experiment and got a different answer. I don't complain solely for the sake of complaining.

Why am I using a full blown IDL; Why not VIM? I don't know. I never heard of VIM
I can still use forty year old volt meters and oscilloscopes. I use a 60 year old telescope that still beats just about anything out there. But a new operating system and changes in the software every few years is unnecessary. Only the speed matters; I couldn't function without it;

At one previous job, I wrote code for take measurements. The system still runs on a 20 old computer a 20 year old operating system. I get as much greif adapting to new OS and commercial software as I get writing code.

Do you understand from where I'm coming? I know how to measure a 5 volt sine way but can someone please tell me how to go to the man page in Xcode 4 like I did in Xcode 3?

chown33
Feb 2, 2012, 12:10 PM
At one previous job, I wrote code for take measurements. The system still runs on a 20 old computer a 20 year old operating system. I get as much greif adapting to new OS and commercial software as I get writing code.

Can you go back one step and explain how or why you upgraded to Xcode 4 at all? Was it because you got a new computer with a new OS that only allows Xcode 4? Was it a mandate from a superior?

This thread started with a context-free complaint against Xcode 4. Given your stated satisfaction with older equipment and software, some context for why you're using Xcode 4 at all would go a long way here.

Finally, there are other editors capable of syntax-coloring code, starting makefiles, command-lines, etc. Smultron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smultron), BBEdit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBEdit), and TextMate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TextMate) immediately spring to mind. You can search the MacRumors archives for those names, in conjunction with the word "code", and probably find a dozen threads that mention other editor names. Or google it.

farmerdoug
Feb 2, 2012, 12:21 PM
Good question. Two answers.
1. My old laptap was dying.
2. Speed. It takes about 15 mins (more probably much more when I'm finished)
to process an image 2k x 2k array of data. (16.8 MB). We came home from our last run with 78 GB of data. Fortunately, not all has to be processed.

dejo
Feb 2, 2012, 12:30 PM
Xcode 3 for Snow Leopard is still available for download, if that's what you prefer.

farmerdoug
Feb 2, 2012, 12:33 PM
But I'm on LION. You don't think I would have downloaded Xcode 4 on purpose do you? Can I go back to 3 on LION.

dejo
Feb 2, 2012, 12:36 PM
According to the download page for it:
Xcode 3 is incompatible with Mac OS X 10.7 Lion

Sorry.

robvas
Feb 2, 2012, 12:36 PM
Are you mistaking the Apple docs for 'man pages'?

chown33
Feb 2, 2012, 01:05 PM
Good question. Two answers.
1. My old laptap was dying.
2. Speed. It takes about 15 mins (more probably much more when I'm finished)
to process an image 2k x 2k array of data. (16.8 MB). We came home from our last run with 78 GB of data. Fortunately, not all has to be processed.

1. Probably should have bought a refurb, or a used one from a private seller. Some model that would undoubtedly run Snow Leopard.

2. "Speed" and "laptop" are in conflict. If I really want speed, I don't think of laptops. "I really need huge amounts of speed, so I'll buy a laptop, or maybe connect multiple laptops together". Doesn't happen. Well, the thinking process might, but the desired speed, not so much.

Significant speed increases are unlikely to come from CPU speed alone. You'll probably have to switch to programming in OpenCL, or some other GPU-compatible language.

CPU improvements, unless it involves multiple heavy parallelism, are unlikely to net anything more than 2-3X. And laptop CPUs simply aren't going to provide multiple parallelism, because they don't have the power budget, either in battery power or in heat dissipation.


Are you mistaking the Apple docs for 'man pages'?

The simple way to read man pages in your web browser:
http://bruji.com/bwana/

farmerdoug
Feb 2, 2012, 01:55 PM
robvas: If you go to the help tab in Xcode, at the bottom it says: "Open man Page"

farmerdoug
Feb 2, 2012, 02:12 PM
Going straight to the man page from Xcode was ideal. Couldn't get any easier. Why should I have to google it or leave Xcode. I take it you are telling me that this feature doesn't exist in Xcode 4.

Purchasing would never go for a private seller; would need a beard. Not sure about a refurbished one.

When all the coding is in place all of the processing will probably be done on a 2 x 2.8 quad core Xenon machine. The data will broken up into chunks so that the code can be running on each thread. If that becomes unacceptable, we have multicore processors at our disposal. But for the field and working at home, laptops it is.

chown33
Feb 2, 2012, 02:41 PM
Going straight to the man page from Xcode was ideal. Couldn't get any easier. Why should I have to google it or leave Xcode. I take it you are telling me that this feature doesn't exist in Xcode 4.

If you're having so much trouble with Xcode 4, I'm not sure why you insist on using Xcode 4. If you're interested in alternatives, then it seems like you'd want to hear about alternatives. Otherwise you may have to have to suck it up and RTFM. Even after RTFMing and googling and more, you may still not get Xcode 4 to do what you want. Hence the value of seeing some alternatives.

farmerdoug
Feb 2, 2012, 02:50 PM
At some point it might become worthwhile to do that but usually the devil you know is better ... Considering the magnitude of the algorithm development, I'm not looking to look for a new IDL, I'd rather kvetch. Besides its probably a good idea that everybody here stay on the same page , so to speak.

So let me rephrase the question. Why would they remove something like that. I would think that it would be helpful to all.