Americans too stupid for factory work?

[Little Endian]

http://www.cbc.ca/cp/business/050630/b0630102.html

Canadian article states that Americans are too stupid too work in an Auto factory as being the primary reason why Toyota is building it's newest plant in Canada. I was just wondering how much of this is reality and how much of it is perception.

[iGary]

Americans (a lot of them) are lazy and care only about themselves.

"What are you going to do for me" attitude.

Honda has been building some of its models in Canada for years...

[mad jew]

This (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=136060) the same thing? :)

[liketom]

i thought they use them robotic arms on the car production line ?

are they saying the americans can't even press a button

[mad jew]

i thought they use them robotic arms on the car production line ?


You're American, right? That's bloody fantastic! :D

[liketom]

You're American, right? That's bloody fantastic! :D
nope British and proud of it lol

[iGary]

That's actually one thing that stopped us from buying a Mercedes SUV (when our business was booming and we could afford one) - Alabama.

Sorry, I don't want a fine piece of German engineering built in Alagodamnbama, thanks. :rolleyes:

[emaja]

"Canadian workers are also $4 to $5 cheaper to employ partly thanks to the taxpayer-funded health-care system in Canada, said federal Industry Minister David Emmerson."

Ahh, the real reason.

Plus, a lot of the plants for Honda and Toyota are in the American South. meaning...

"He said Nissan and Honda have encountered difficulties getting new plants up to full production in recent years in Mississippi and Alabama due to an untrained - and often illiterate - workforce. In Alabama, trainers had to use "pictorials" to teach some illiterate workers how to use high-tech plant equipment."

[wordmunger]

Another (equally ignorant) way of putting this is that Canadians will work for cheap. Even the stupid Americans cost more than the smart Canadians.

[iindigo]

I resent that - Even being in the supposedly-bass-ackwards stupid state of West Virginia, I'm quite proficient in many things. I'm 16 and have had 11 years of education so far (K-10th). I'll be in 11th grade next school year and have no intention of stopping until I have the correct amount of college for what I'm doing.

Now if this is draws a picture of a stupid kid then things are pretty crazy... I could take a job in a car factory no problem. Heck, I already have paying job online right now.

[redeye be]

"Canadian workers are also $4 to $5 cheaper to employ partly thanks to the taxpayer-funded health-care system in Canada, said federal Industry Minister David Emmerson."
Ahh, the real reason.

Here in Blgm taxpayer-funded health-care is the reason why we're more exspensive to employ...

:confused:

[MongoTheGeek]

Here in Blgm taxpayer-funded health-care is the reason why we're more exspensive to employ...

:confused:

I would say its probably the minimum wage to make sure that you pay enough in taxes is why you are expensive to employ.

[CorvusCamenarum]

That's actually one thing that stopped us from buying a Mercedes SUV (when our business was booming and we could afford one) - Alabama.

Sorry, I don't want a fine piece of German engineering built in Alagodamnbama, thanks. :rolleyes:

Wow, good to see that prejudice is still alive and well, considering how all you northerners go around touting yourself as the enlightened ones. Friendly tip: stupid people live everywhere.

For the record, I happen to live about 15 miles from the Mercedes plant in Vance. It's probably the most sought-after places to work here, and the waiting list just to get an interview is about two years. Then again, I guess that Mercedes decided to build it's only plant outside Germany due to the rampant stupidity and inability to read of anyone born here (hmm, where did I put that pesky college degree that keeps me out of the workforce?). I also suppose that Mercedes locating in Alabama was such a bad idea that other automakers decided so wisely not to follow suit, such as the new Hyundai plant just outside Montgomery or the Honda plant in Lincoln, AL.
Hmm, what's that other high-tech organization that has had a big presence in Alabama for decades? Oh yeah - NASA. But no, people from Alabama all live in trailers, wear overalls, and chew straw.

I guess us Alabamians are so retarded that after ten years or so of building the M-Class that they only decided to expand their production to include one new model (R-Class) and not two or three. We can't count above two anyway, and it might confuse us. :rolleyes:

[mac-er]

Honda has been building Hondas and Acuras in Ohio for years.

I see these as a cultural thing.
Americans are very individualistic (not stupid), so I find that there is no common concern for whether the car is well-built or not. Its all about the worker and what they get (i.e unions).

I like Japanese cars because they are better built in general. And, part of the Japanese culture is teamwork and concern for the company. A Japanese worker, at least traditionally, is concerned how the company looks and less about about themselves.

Even though my Japanese car was built in Ohio, I think its great because Honda runs the plant under Japanese principles.

Just watch "Gung-Ho" with Michael Keaton for the round-about explanation :) :rolleyes:

[mac-er]

Wow, good to see that prejudice is still alive and well, considering how all you northerners go around touting yourself as the enlightened ones. Friendly tip: stupid people live everywhere.

For the record, I happen to live about 15 miles from the Mercedes plant in Vance. It's probably the most sought-after places to work here, and the waiting list just to get an interview is about two years. Then again, I guess that Mercedes decided to build it's only plant outside Germany due to the rampant stupidity and inability to read of anyone born here (hmm, where did I put that pesky college degree that keeps me out of the workforce?). I also suppose that Mercedes locating in Alabama was such a bad idea that other automakers decided so wisely not to follow suit, such as the new Hyundai plant just outside Montgomery or the Honda plant in Lincoln, AL.
Hmm, what's that other high-tech organization that has had a big presence in Alabama for decades? Oh yeah - NASA. But no, people from Alabama all live in trailers, wear overalls, and chew straw.

I guess us Alabamians are so retarded that after ten years or so of building the M-Class that they only decided to expand their production to include one new model (R-Class) and not two or three. We can't count above two anyway, and it might confuse us. :rolleyes:

Sorry, to burst your bubble...but they said it themselves

He said Nissan and Honda have encountered difficulties getting new plants up to full production in recent years in Mississippi and Alabama due to an untrained - and often illiterate - workforce. In Alabama, trainers had to use "pictorials" to teach some illiterate workers how to use high-tech plant equipment.

"The educational level and the skill level of the people down there is so much lower than it is in Ontario," Fedchun said

[OnceUGoMac]

Wow, good to see that prejudice is still alive and well, considering how all you northerners go around touting yourself as the enlightened ones. Friendly tip: stupid people live everywhere.

For the record, I happen to live about 15 miles from the Mercedes plant in Vance. It's probably the most sought-after places to work here, and the waiting list just to get an interview is about two years. Then again, I guess that Mercedes decided to build it's only plant outside Germany due to the rampant stupidity and inability to read of anyone born here (hmm, where did I put that pesky college degree that keeps me out of the workforce?). I also suppose that Mercedes locating in Alabama was such a bad idea that other automakers decided so wisely not to follow suit, such as the new Hyundai plant just outside Montgomery or the Honda plant in Lincoln, AL.
Hmm, what's that other high-tech organization that has had a big presence in Alabama for decades? Oh yeah - NASA. But no, people from Alabama all live in trailers, wear overalls, and chew straw.

I guess us Alabamians are so retarded that after ten years or so of building the M-Class that they only decided to expand their production to include one new model (R-Class) and not two or three. We can't count above two anyway, and it might confuse us. :rolleyes:

I was waiting for it. Thank you. :D It is amusing how elitist people are towards conservatives, Republicans, or Southerners. It's a shame. I live in Chicago, and this "enlightened", democrat, liberal city is the most corrupt and racist city that I've lived. Ignorance works both ways, usually against each other. :(

[CorvusCamenarum]

Sorry, to burst your bubble...but they said it themselves

First of all, he said + they said = hearsay. If you can show me something more direct, I welcome the opportunity for enlightenment.

Secondly, I think you missed the point. It's not two years to get a job there, it's two years to be considered for one. Last time I checked, Mercedes only employs around 2,000 people here. Granted, this doesn't take into account the 15,000 or so jobs in the supporting industries. I don't have the figures on the other plants.

Working for MB is a plum job here, and if the competition is that intense, then we can't be nearly as dumb as one line in a Canadian-biased article makes us out to be.

[leekohler]

I live in Chicago, and this "enlightened", democrat, liberal city is the most corrupt and racist city that I've lived. Ignorance works both ways, usually against each other. :(

Oh really? Racist? I'll give you corrupt, but not racist. Go live in Cincinnati, Ohio. Or anywhere in Ohio. That's racism. But if you're referring to Lincoln Park yuppies, you're right.

Sorry- I don't know what Chicago you live in, but my office is 40% black. In Ohio, it wouldn't be a fraction of that. And yes, I used to live there.

[mac-er]

Sorry- I don't know what Chicago you live in, but my office is 40% black. In Ohio, it wouldn't be a fraction of that. And yes, I used to live there.

Just because 40% of your office is black doesn't make it non-racist.
That's like one of the people that say.."I can't be racist, one of my friends in black."

[mac-er]

First of all, he said + they said = hearsay. If you can show me something more direct, I welcome the opportunity for enlightenment.


I don't know how to be more direct...it was stated in the article..
:confused:

Anyways, I'm Southern...but come on, even other Southerners make fun of Alabama and Mississippi. :)

[OnceUGoMac]

Oh really? Racist? I'll give you corrupt, but not racist. Go live in Cincinnati, Ohio. Or anywhere in Ohio. That's racism. But if you're referring to Lincoln Park yuppies, you're right.

Sorry- I don't know what Chicago you live in, but my office is 40% black. In Ohio, it wouldn't be a fraction of that. And yes, I used to live there.

You lived here and you don't see it? For one, it is segregated. The African American communities are delegated to the South and West sides. The Hispanics are delegated to the Southwest aad Northwest sides. The whites are north. BTW, the whites in Lincoln Park aren't the only racists in Chicago, if you catch my drift. I live in Printer's Row, btw. Soon to be Oak Park. :)

[leekohler]

You lived here and you don't see it? For one, it is segregated. The African American communities are delegated to the South and West sides. The Hispanics are delegated to the Southwest aad Northwest sides. The whites are north. BTW, the whites in Lincoln Park aren't the only racists in Chicago, if you catch my drift. I live in Printer's Row, btw. Soon to be Oak Park. :)

Umm, first off, it's an awfully big place. People live in neighborhoods where they're most comfortable because they can. Haven't you noticed separate Asian communities? Polish communities? Gay communities? So are they also "delegated" to those areas of the city as well?

BTW-I've lived here 13 years, starting in Rogers Park. I thought I was all cool and enlightened- I realized when I moved here I had a lot to learn. Like I said- if you really want to see racism, move to Ohio.

[leekohler]

Just because 40% of your office is black doesn't make it non-racist.
That's like one of the people that say.."I can't be racist, one of my friends in black."

The only reason I mentioned that was because that would never happen where I grew up. Didn't mean it to be a qualifying statement. And of course there's racism in Chicago. It's everywhere. But it's hardly the most racist city in the country. And there is no place in America I've seen that's completely non-racist. Just varying degrees.

[OnceUGoMac]

Umm, first off, it's an awfully big place. People live in neighborhoods where they're most comfortable because they can. Haven't you noticed separate Asian communities? Polish communities? Gay communities? So are they also "delegated" to those areas of the city as well?

BTW-I've lived here 13 years, starting in Rogers Park. I thought I was all cool and enlightened- I realized when I moved here I had a lot to learn. Like I said- if you really want to see racism, move to Ohio.

Ohio isn't on the list of my places to live. Apologies. :)

[leekohler]

Ohio isn't on the list of my places to live. Apologies. :)

And I certainly don't blame you for that. :) My whole point was that racism is a lot worse in other parts of the country. Chicago is FAR from the worst. My guess is that you've lived in big places all your life. Is that correct? If so, you're very lucky.

[broken_keyboard]

In addition to lower training costs, Canadian workers are also $4 to $5 cheaper to employ partly thanks to the taxpayer-funded health-care system in Canada, said federal Industry Minister David Emmerson.

As emaja said, this is the real reason.

If congress changed the law so there was no minimum wage and no requirement to buy health insurance for employees, factories would close in Canada and China and open in the U.S.

There's nothing inevitable about factories moving overseas.

[OnceUGoMac]

And I certainly don't blame you for that. :) My whole point was that racism is a lot worse in other parts of the country. Chicago is FAR from the worst. My guess is that you've lived in big places all your life. Is that correct? If so, you're very lucky.

Well, I'm a West Virginian native, but was raised in Springfield, MO. Other than that, London and Chicago. I just expected more from this city (Chicago) is all.

[leekohler]

Well, I'm a West Virginian native, but was raised in Springfield, MO. Other than that, London and Chicago. I just expected more from this city (Chicago) is all.

How long have you been here? Regardless, I think you'll like Oak Park. Also, if you're not completely settled- try living in Roger's Park for a bit. Great, diverse neighborhood. I lived there for 4 years until my landlord sold our building. I live in Andersonville now, but want to get back to Roger's Park at some point.

[decksnap]

I'm all for bashing conservatives, but come on. The south, besides having many great places to live, has a lot of friendly (and intelligent) people. Perhaps if you look at it from the other angle- maybe the economy is such that the only people willing to work these factory jobs are illiterate. That paints an entirely opposite picture. By that theory, in Canada, there are less desireable jobs available and simply more educated people willing to take a job in a factory.

[leekohler]

I'm all for bashing conservatives, but come on. The south, besides having many great places to live, has a lot of friendly (and intelligent) people. Perhaps if you look at it from the other angle- maybe the economy is such that the only people willing to work these factory jobs are illiterate. That paints an entirely opposite picture. By that theory, in Canada, there are less desireable jobs available and simply more educated people willing to take a job in a factory.

That's an interesting way to look at it. I guess you'd have to look at how the economy is in the South, what the literacy rate is and so forth.

[Counterfit]

I tried finding literacy rates from the 2000 census, but I could only find data on primarily non-english speakers. :(

[jayscheuerle]

Wow, good to see that prejudice is still alive and well, considering how all you northerners go around touting yourself as the enlightened ones. Friendly tip: stupid people live everywhere.

No doubt. I moved down to South Philly (this is in PA, a northern state), a traditional Italian heritage stronghold last September as I could no longer afford to be closer to Center City. Though the people can be friendly enough, I'm constantly amazed by the idiocy, rudeness, baseness and lack of consideration exhibited here. Just last night we had people at the end of my small block setting off long strings of firecrackers and explosions that sounded like M-80s at 11:45 pm!! The guy across the street from me blasts his music out his windows in block-party fashion every weekend as he lays in his hammock which he has in the street parking spot in front of his house. There's a depth of age and personalities on this street that aren't exactly appreciative of Eminem blasted at a volume which is loud even when your windows are shut and your AC on.

I'd also like to add that the people here are every bit as racist as those I encountered during my years living in Texas. I would say that racism seems to be more pervasive across economic lines in the parts of the South where I lived. That is, it's more likely to be exhibited by lower income peoples in the North, whereas I found it lying right below the surface just outside of middle class Dallas... - j

[emaja]

I think you'll like Oak Park. Also, if you're not completely settled- try living in Roger's Park for a bit. Great, diverse neighborhood. I lived there for 4 years until my landlord sold our building. I live in Andersonville now, but want to get back to Roger's Park at some point.

I used to live in North Park just west of Andersonville. Wonderful area.

If you want to see segregated and racist, Oak Park is a good place to find it. You go from million dollar victorians and Frank Lloyd Wright's to absolute dumps in a matter of minutes. And all those open minded types in the historic district will tell you exactly who is ruining Oak Park.

Guess who lives in which areas?

This has strayed a bit, but segregation based on economics just happens. People also like to live by people who are like them. Segregation based on "rules" is a different matter. If a black family can't live in Ravenswood Manor because the whites will force them out, that is a crime - literally. If they can't live there because they can't afford it - that is economics.

BTW, not a lot of people can't afford to live in Ravenswood Manor. Love the neighborhood. Can't stomach the prices.

[dejo]

I tried finding literacy rates from the 2000 census...

Maybe the illiterate had a hard time reading the census forms... ;)

[kuyu]

There's a Toyota plant in Georgetown, KY (Scott county) which also has a two year wait for interviews. They have IQ, dexterity, problem solving, etc. tests during the 6 month interview process.

But, considering that the starting salary is ~$60,000/year with the best benefits money can buy, everyone wants to work there. My mom started on the line there, and after 6 years she makes more than she did after 14 years at IBM in a suit! Scott county also has the best schools in the state.

I am covered under her insurance because I'm a student, and my co-pay on a $600/month prescription was $5!!!

However, much of the plant underlings are ignorant rednecks. Management is pretty good at ciphering out the intelligent ones for promotions though, so it all works out in the end.

If they could just keep the union out then things would be much easier for everyone... (TMMK has the highest wages and best benefits of any auto plant in America, what can the union do for them?)

[ham_man]

However, much of the plant underlings are ignorant rednecks.
That is one of the most idiotic comments I have heard in a while. Considering the fact that my Grandpa never got past the 9th grade yet can still manage to know exactly what is wrong with a tractor and exactly how to fix it. Just because they don't speak perfect English doesn't make them ignorant...

[leekohler]

I used to live in North Park just west of Andersonville. Wonderful area.

If you want to see segregated and racist, Oak Park is a good place to find it. You go from million dollar victorians and Frank Lloyd Wright's to absolute dumps in a matter of minutes. And all those open minded types in the historic district will tell you exactly who is ruining Oak Park.

Guess who lives in which areas?

This has strayed a bit, but segregation based on economics just happens. People also like to live by people who are like them. Segregation based on "rules" is a different matter. If a black family can't live in Ravenswood Manor because the whites will force them out, that is a crime - literally. If they can't live there because they can't afford it - that is economics.

BTW, not a lot of people can't afford to live in Ravenswood Manor. Love the neighborhood. Can't stomach the prices.

You clarified my earlier points. Thanks. I actually moved to Andersonville thinking I wanted to live in a more gay area. I found that it's just kind of boring. I like having lots of different people around. That's why I want to go back to Roger's Park.

[emaja]

You clarified my earlier points. Thanks. I actually moved to Andersonville thinking I wanted to live in a more gay area. I found that it's just kind of boring. I like having lots of different people around. That's why I want to go back to Roger's Park.

I don't think that my waistline could stand being that close to Ann Sather's all the time - LOL!

I agree that it is nice to live in a diverse area. That's what I liked about the Albany Park area just south of Foster on Kedzie. It is the most diverse neighborhood in the city and now one of the hottest to live in. There are lots of bungalows and 2-3 flats that people are snatching up and renovating.

They get the benefits of living in an up and coming area that is filled with white, blacks, hispanics, gays, asians, and various middle eastern ethnic groups.

I miss it a lot. Mostly the food, but the flavor - no pun intended - of that neighborhood was wonderful.

[leekohler]

I don't think that my waistline could stand being that close to Ann Sather's all the time - LOL!

I agree that it is nice to live in a diverse area. That's what I liked about the Albany Park area just south of Foster on Kedzie. It is the most diverse neighborhood in the city and now one of the hottest to live in. There are lots of bungalows and 2-3 flats that people are snatching up and renovating.

They get the benefits of living in an up and coming area that is filled with white, blacks, hispanics, gays, asians, and various middle eastern ethnic groups.

I miss it a lot. Mostly the food, but the flavor - no pun intended - of that neighborhood was wonderful.

I have some friends who moved over there. They like it too. But I like not having a car and Andersonville is good for that.

[jadam]

I can't beleive none of you have pointed it out yet, but the person who made the comment saying that Americans are too stupid was a Canadian who runs an orginzation whose sole purpose is to increase manufacturing in Canada...

Get a grip whiners

[kuyu]

That is one of the most idiotic comments I have heard in a while. Considering the fact that my Grandpa never got past the 9th grade yet can still manage to know exactly what is wrong with a tractor and exactly how to fix it. Just because they don't speak perfect English doesn't make them ignorant...

Idiotic? My grandmother barely finished high school, and my great grandmother never finished 4th grade. Being an ignorant redneck has nothing to do with education level, it's a mentality. My comment was meant to illustrate the fact that some people, regardless of education, are not qualified to lead.

In fact, my grandmother didn't have running water until she was 19 and moved to Lexington (a single mother with 4 kids in the 60's!). Today she lives in a giant house overlooking a lake, drives a Beemer, and has seen most of the world. Not bad for an uneducated bumpkin, huh? The point is, she never was a redneck because being a redneck is a state of mental being, not something skoolin' can ever learn ya'.

[Lyle]

I can't beleive none of you have pointed it out yet, but the person who made the comment saying that Americans are too stupid was a Canadian who runs an orginzation whose sole purpose is to increase manufactuting in Canada...I was distracted by the subplot of this thread (folks arguing with each other about who lives in the more racist city).

[leekohler]

I was distracted by the subplot of this thread (folks arguing with each other about who lives in the more racist city).

Hee-hee! Glad we could help Lyle. :)

[PBGPowerbook]

That's actually one thing that stopped us from buying a Mercedes SUV (Sorry, I don't want a fine piece of German engineering built in Alabama, thanks.

said the MARYLAND resident


hahahahahha

[MacAztec]

I think its funny that the guy in the article says that Americans are too stupid. I mean, what the hell has Canada proven to the world? (no offense to you Canadians).

[Linkjeniero]

I think its funny that the guy in the article says that Americans are too stupid. I mean, what the hell has Canada proven to the world? (no offense to you Canadians).

Geez, some of you are taking it a tad too personaly... the guy just said that the factory workers they could get in USA are less educated/smart than the canadian ones... There might be a number of reasons why this is true, as someone pointed out (for example, that educated people in USA is not doing factory work), and not necessarily that all of the USA is stupid.

(Just in case: I wasn't born nor live in either USA or Canada)

[Sun Baked]

I guess if Toyota ever decided to start building monster trucks they'd be running to the redneck belt for workers talented enough to build em.

:(

[jadam]

Geez, some of you are taking it a tad too personaly... the guy just said that the factory workers they could get in USA are less educated/smart than the canadian ones... There might be a number of reasons why this is true, as someone pointed out (for example, that educated people in USA is not doing factory work), and not necessarily that all of the USA is stupid.

(Just in case: I wasn't born nor live in either USA or Canada)

Or maybe that the person who said the quote is obviously biased to increasing the amount of Canadian Manufacturing...

[dejo]

I think its funny that the guy in the article says that Americans are too stupid. I mean, what the hell has Canada proven to the world? (no offense to you Canadians).

Asking that question perhaps is probative of the first statement.

[fuzzwud]

The New York Times
June 22, 2005
Foreign Makers, Settled in South, Pace Car Industry
By MICHELINE MAYNARD

Correction Appended

HUNTSVILLE, Ala., June 17 - By most accounts, the United States auto industry is in deep trouble. But don't tell that to the newest workers here in Alabama, where foreign carmakers are redefining the auto industry in America.

Automakers from overseas first began building manufacturing plants in this country in the 1970's, largely as a defensive response to protectionist threats. But even as General Motors and Ford have been announcing thousands of job cuts, the foreign automakers are aggressively building new factories and expanding plants they opened not long ago.

In Alabama alone, Mercedes-Benz has doubled the size of its plant outside Tuscaloosa in the last year, while Honda has done the same at its factory in Lincoln. A new plant from the Korean automaker, Hyundai, opened just last month in Montgomery. And Toyota is adding 300 more workers here at its two-year-old plant in Huntsville to produce powerful engines for the big pickup trucks that will be made in a factory opening next year in Texas.

In other industries, American manufacturers have been some of the most avid investors abroad. But in the case of the auto industry, the competition has been brought right to Detroit's doorstep as the strongest foreign companies are moving to states eager for their investments, most of them in the Deep South, and hiring workers seeking the stability that home-grown companies can no longer offer.

As a result, a quarter of all cars and trucks built in the United States are now made in factories owned by foreign automakers producing foreign brands, up from 18 percent in 2000. The assembly plants alone employ nearly 60,000 people, and that number continues to grow.

The employment at the American companies still dwarfs that of the newcomers. Automakers in Detroit employ four times the hourly workers - 250,000 - but that number is continuing to fall. Already, G.M. has announced that it plans to cut 25,000 of those workers by 2008.

Union jobs at the Big Three plants pay a dollar or two more an hour - about $26 an hour compared with $24 or $25 an hour for the nonunion jobs at the foreign plants. But compensation at the American automakers swells to an average of $55 an hour when health care, cost of living and other benefits are counted, compared with $48 an hour, on average, at Toyota.

Toyota gets more out of its workers. Its plants operate at about 107 percent of the manufacturing capacity, meaning that they are constantly running on overtime, according to Harbour & Associates, a consulting firm that tracks manufacturing. By contrast, G.M.'s plants are operating at only 75 percent of their capacity, Harbour found.

For David Herring, who grew up in Pontiac, Mich., outside of Detroit, his new job at Toyota's engine plant in Huntsville is a return to the industry that employed his uncle and other family members, but that he had originally decided to avoid. He earned a football scholarship to the University of North Alabama and then became a social worker. The job wore him down, he said, and he saw opportunity and stability at Toyota.

"Basically, auto country is moving down south," said Mr. Herring, 29, who met Toyota's president on his first day on the job. He added, "Fate brought me here."

For the most part, the first wave of foreign-owned plants were farther north, in places like Ohio and Kentucky, while the newest factories are concentrated in the Deep South.

The state of Alabama has been particularly generous in wooing auto companies. In 1993, it provided $258 million in incentives and tax breaks to land its first foreign automaker, Mercedes. The state has spent hundreds of millions since to attract the Honda, Hyundai and Toyota plants.

But what may have clinched the deals was the state's laws - similar to those on the books throughout much of the South - that do not require workers to join unions even if their plants are organized.

"The auto industry has found a welcome down here," said Johnny L. Mathis, a business development manager with Qore Property Sciences, a company that has prepared the construction sites for many of the new auto factories and parts plants.

Since 2000, the Big Three automakers have lost eight points of market share just to their Japanese competition. Detroit now holds 57 percent of the American car market, while foreign automakers have 43 percent.

Among the companies adding jobs, no company is courted more than Toyota, the world's richest car company, which is gaining strength even as G.M. falters. Beyond expanding its engine plant here, where its ultimate investment will be $450 million, Toyota is building a $1 billion factory in San Antonio - set to open next year with 4,000 workers. And company officials are looking at even more places, including Arkansas, to build additional factories.

Toyota's impact on the nation's economy has been powerful. A study by the Center for Automotive Research, which has yet to be published, estimates that Toyota's investments in the United States had led to 386,600 American jobs as of last year - including jobs at suppliers and in surrounding communities.

That includes the 29,000 assembly workers at Toyota's plants, plus another 74,000 people employed by the automaker in its California headquarters, design and engineering centers and at its dealerships. And those figures do not include Toyota's expansion plans. In Texas alone, the study estimates, Toyota will help create another 9,000 jobs.

The impact helps explain why "states are falling all over themselves to land a car company," said James T. Bolte, a Toyota vice president in charge of the Alabama plant.

In a state where the average wage is $31,000 a year, according to the Commerce Department, Toyota's workers earn $45,000 on average, with overtime, plus a benefits package valued by the company at $10,000. Workers receive medical, dental and life insurance coverage; a traditional pension plan and a 401(k) plan; an allowance for child care; and an annual cash bonus, which was $3,850 a worker last year.

Prospective employees are lining up to apply for jobs at the new factories. About 30,000 people vied for the 2,000 additional jobs at the gleaming white Mercedes plant west of Birmingham, where its workers dress in royal blue shirts that bear the company's three-pointed star logo on the right shoulder and their names on the left.

For Tammy Young, 36, the sprawling Mercedes factory was a prize after being laid off at U.S. Steel's big Birmingham operation, where she worked for nine years. In between, she held a temporary job at the Honda plant and worked at a dairy store.

The factory has just begun building the new R-class, a luxury station wagon, which will sell for about $50,000. It joins a new version of the M-class sport utility, the original vehicle produced here, whose sales are up 66 percent since it was updated last spring.

Toyota, which opened its plant with 150 workers in 2003, had 9,000 applications for those positions, even though jobs in an engine plant lack the allure and glamour of building cars at places like Mercedes.

The process of getting a job at Toyota is rigorous, meant to weed out those not meant for the repetitive, sometimes hot work inside the plant, which sits on 200 acres surrounded by cotton fields.

After interviews, job seekers had to complete five weeks of pre-employment training at a center, which is run and paid for by the state, across the road from Alabama A&M University. The drill included exercises to see if they could work on teams and hours spent on a practice assembly line. None of the applicants were paid. Anyone who was late or missed a training session was instantly cut.

The few successful applicants went through nine weeks more training inside the engine plant, including two hours a day in a fully equipped gym where they ran on treadmills and lifted weights to build endurance.

Unlike plants run by Detroit automakers, where a worker can spend 30 years screwing on the same parts, everyone on the Toyota line is taught to do every type of assembly job, so they can switch positions when needed to keep production flowing.

"It was hard," Mr. Herring said, "but it all had a purpose."

To many, the purpose is the stability of a job at Toyota, which earned $4.8 billion in 2004, as the Detroit companies struggled. Jewal Fossett II, 31, was encouraged to apply by his father, who had bounced from one Ford job to another.

The younger Mr. Fossett, who previously worked for MCI, said he had one reason for applying: "I have my own family to raise."

Noralyn Lassiter, 22, said she gave up her job as a customer service representative at DirecTV, where she spent days at a desk "on a headset." Now, she will stand for hours a day at a workstation, redolent with the faintly acrid smell of engine coolant. But, she said, "It's hard to find a job that you can stick with a long time."

Lately, at least some Toyota officials in Japan have expressed concern that the automaker's rapid growth could cause political problems, with one senior executive proposing that the company might raise prices or temper its expansion to give G.M. and Ford a break.

But, Mr. Bolte, the Toyota executive, is doubtful that the company is planning to retreat. "I haven't heard anybody say, 'Slow down,' " he said.

[crenz]

…it's only plant outside Germany…

They have plants in a number of other places, too (e.g. Brasil). That doesn't invalidate your argument, though.

Greeting from "about 15 miles" from the Daimler-Chrysler headquarters :-)

[stubeeef]

Sorry, didn't read all the posts.

Quick question, since the Americans are so stupid now, how many plants have the car makers closed? You know, they just can't get it right, so how many are closed?