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jiv3turkey748
Sep 2, 2005, 02:05 PM
Today at school me and this girl were play funny songs we had on our ipods and one of the administrators saw us and took our ipods away

now we cant get them back until our parents come by to pick them up, and they can only be picked up on wednesdays

normally this wouldnt be a big deal except that im going to my grandparents house on florida today and the car ride is going to be miserable being forced to listen to country music that my parents will be playing



besler3035
Sep 2, 2005, 02:23 PM
Nothing's wrong with a little country :)

qzak
Sep 2, 2005, 02:28 PM
they don't let you have ipods in your school? i guess it is like having a discman, but still, as long as your not playing it in class i dont see why not. oh man i had soo many hats taken away from me in highschool. glad those days are over, no one gives a crap what you wear in college

jiv3turkey748
Sep 2, 2005, 02:47 PM
they don't let you have ipods in your school? i guess it is like having a discman, but still, as long as your not playing it in class i dont see why not. oh man i had soo many hats taken away from me in highschool. glad those days are over, no one gives a crap what you wear in college

your allowed to have ipods/ cell phones out before and after school but if they even see an ipod even if its turned off they take it away

another kid today got his taken away for checking the time

tech4all
Sep 2, 2005, 03:02 PM
Yea rules are rules I guess, but I still think it's unfair to a degree. I mean the freedom you have in high school vs. college is amazing. In college you can have your cell phone out - some instructors do want them off during class though - and leave for the bathroom without asking for permission. I personally think as long as the iPod (or anything) isn't out while the instructor is lecturing or something like that, then it should be OK to have out. Of course the item should be appropriate. For example, I don't think "reading" a "magazine" (;)) would be appropriate at school regardless of the time it was out. Luckily there are some instructors out there who do allow certain things out during class. I think it's especially useful during an art class or related subject because, depending on the person, music can be inspiring to art, such as painting.

dornoforpyros
Sep 2, 2005, 03:09 PM
ahh an the mind washi...er education system continues on.
Honestly even though I've been out of high school for a few years now I still find it disgusting just how many rules are imposed on high school students these days.
I mean hell taking away a students iPod because a teacher "sees it" could be chalked up to nothing short of theft in my opinion. It's not the teachers iPod, sure you get it back but if I go up to a person at work & take their iPod and say "you can pick it up after jumping through these hoops" I'm likley to get a rightfully deserved punch in the face.
Disapline is one thing, control is another.

ITASOR
Sep 2, 2005, 03:16 PM
I think school's cell phone rules are garbage. Who cares if you have a cell phone that is off, or on silent, clipped to you? WHO CARES? School shouldn't take responsibility if lost, but I can't see why you have to hide it. It's more likely to get stolen out of a locker than in your pocket.

Mac_Freak
Sep 2, 2005, 03:20 PM
American education system is going deeper and deeper into the drain. Education system doesn't give a ****** about music, art or even science education anymore. The rules that they impose on people are ridiculous. I remember having my headphones taken away (the security women was generous so just took them instead of my CD player) during a lunch. I mean, come on. It is a lunch time, who do ****** is going to mind what I am listening to.

Sweetfeld28
Sep 2, 2005, 05:16 PM
why don't you tell them you have a school project saved on it, and that you need to finish working on it while your in flori-da.

DrVu96
Sep 2, 2005, 05:33 PM
Cell phone rules are retarted.

At my High School, no electronics, including cell phones, iPods, CD players, digital cameras, regular cameras, and HEADPHONES! Many of these things can be brought on the last day of school. Nobody gives a flying flip on May 25.

Hick Town. Why do the teachers get to prance around with their iBooks clutched to their crippling 38 year old bodies out of complete incompetence over use towards a Mac (Which is impossible :) !)

Edit: Oh yes. One time in History this girl's cell phone went off and it was taken up. It was in her purse. Her mother had been in a car wreck and had a really serious ankle injury (the foot was hanging from her body by two tendons.)

If teachers see it, on or off, Hosta La Bye-Bye to your cell. Even poking through from your pants (like when sitting dows and they can see the cell in your pocket).

Plus, this whole gang affiliation thing is bullcrap too. This school has 800 students, and if you come to school with a solid white, red, or blue tee you are expelled for 1 school year.

mintlivedotcom
Sep 2, 2005, 06:06 PM
As a middle school teacher, I agree with the rules that most secondary schools have...the difference is that I don't tend to enforce them so much.

For instance, if a student has a cellphone/iPod/etc. out before/after school or during lunch, it's a pain in the butt for me to take it away. However, if I am in the middle of a lecture and a student busts out their headphones and isn't paying attention, then THAT is a problem. Students show me their "gadgets" all the time and we even talk about them.

The point that I want to really make here, is that most teenagers are immature. I know that MacRumor's members are very mature (for the most part).

If we didn't have these harsh rules, the immature students would make everyone look bad and the learning environment would be worse than it already is.

eva01
Sep 2, 2005, 06:09 PM
Heh i wouldn't let a teacher touch my iPod, if they touched it i would then have to use self defense and say i thought they were trying to grab me by the wrist to injure me so i broke their hand.

But at least college here lets me have whatever i want and a lot of the teachers don't even care if your cell phone is on because most of their cellphones also go off during class, because emergencies always happen.

I always have my cellphone on during classes in case one of my Drs need to get in touch with me, or if i get called into work at the hospital (which they can legally do i believe)

Because i know you wouldn't want to be the teacher that gets the lab management screaming at you for taking away my beeper or cell phone so i couldn't come in to work because someone called out sick. And at the worst you would have the Pathologists upset with you as well.

mintlivedotcom
Sep 2, 2005, 06:13 PM
I also believe that the teenage years bite as far as authority goes, but that is what EVERYONE goes through. I'm drinking a beer right now and don't have to be sneaky. That is something I couldn't do in high school.

The thing is (woah, I sound like Monk!)...freedom will come and more choices will open up. If you don't like the rules now, just wait. Yes, college was much more free. And expensive!

eva01
Sep 2, 2005, 06:16 PM
I also believe that the teenage years bite as far as authority goes, but that is what EVERYONE goes through. I'm drinking a beer right now and don't have to be sneaky. That is something I couldn't do in high school.

You had to be sneaky in high school, you poor poor soul. I feel bad for you to an extent.

nightdweller25
Sep 2, 2005, 06:25 PM
I'm just happy they let us use it before/after school now that I'm in high school. In middle school, no matter what time ti was, any gadget would be confiscated, even if its off and in your pocket, if they see it, they ask you for it. But in high school you can use it in non school hours, but I really wish that they would let us use it during lunch since it is OUR break time!

mintlivedotcom
Sep 2, 2005, 07:02 PM
You had to be sneaky in high school, you poor poor soul. I feel bad for you to an extent.

What, did you drink in front of adults? I remember sneaking in nasty 40 oz. bottles into movie theatres.

jiv3turkey748
Sep 2, 2005, 09:47 PM
I'm just happy they let us use it before/after school now that I'm in high school. In middle school, no matter what time ti was, any gadget would be confiscated, even if its off and in your pocket, if they see it, they ask you for it. But in high school you can use it in non school hours, but I really wish that they would let us use it during lunch since it is OUR break time!

ya in middle school they would take it up no matter what but usually as long as it was a teacher that liked me they would give it back

eva01
Sep 2, 2005, 09:52 PM
What, did you drink in front of adults? I remember sneaking in nasty 40 oz. bottles into movie theatres.

My father was the one that gave me my drinks O_o

homerjward
Sep 2, 2005, 10:51 PM
ugh...i hate all these retarded rules schools have...today at lunch this guy was handing out papers with directions to a lan party he's having saturday...this nazi b*tch AP comes up and takes them all up saying they're contraband or something...i didn't really hear but it's still retarded.
i can kinda understand the no cell phone/ipod rule...i guess...but i think taking them away, as another poster said, is theft. and, at least at my school, if you refuse to give it to them they have you arrested! that's like getting mugged and then the mugger calling the cops on you because he couldnt get what he was trying to steal! :mad:

mintlivedotcom
Sep 3, 2005, 08:01 AM
ugh...i hate all these retarded rules schools have...today at lunch this guy was handing out papers with directions to a lan party he's having saturday...this nazi b*tch AP comes up and takes them all up saying they're contraband or something...i didn't really hear but it's still retarded.
i can kinda understand the no cell phone/ipod rule...i guess...but i think taking them away, as another poster said, is theft. and, at least at my school, if you refuse to give it to them they have you arrested! that's like getting mugged and then the mugger calling the cops on you because he couldnt get what he was trying to steal! :mad:

I agree it's dumb that they would take an invitation to a party away (I just witnessed middle school students passing around invitations his week and I teased them, saing I was going to crash it).

Think about the "confiscation" rules again. Can you see how the immature students wreck it for the rest? Just like I can't go and easily buy spray paint, cigarettes, etc. without asking for assistance because years ago other people ruined it.

You must admit, if the rules weren't there, then students would be putting headphones on in class. I should know, because it happened a few times in my classes - even with the rules in place! I just made them put it away.

rjphoto
Sep 3, 2005, 09:29 AM
Why can't you use an iPod with a Griffin iTalk or Belkin VOice recorder or Microphone adapter to record lectures in High School like I used a cassette recorder in college (it was 20 something years ago).

If I was in high school now I would be using an iPod as a recorder, but I would ask my teachers if they had any problem with it first.

I agree that a few bad seeds ruin it for everyone else.

Moria
Sep 3, 2005, 09:57 AM
Why do you need a parent to go in and get it for you?

In some classes at my school we're allowed to listen to music, Maths and Computing. But we only listen to music if we actually know how to do the work, it would just make it even harder to do if we were listening to music and trying to figure out a maths problem.

hob
Sep 3, 2005, 10:19 AM
America sounds crazier every day.

When I was at school, just a couple of years ago, I most certainly wasn't allowed to make phone calls during the day... Which is sensible. However, I could pretty much do what I wanted with my iPod/MiniDisc player (depending on what year it was ;) ). I wouldn't say I was a suck up at all, but the teachers knew who were the trouble making students.... Basically those that would go around with one ear piece in blaring out drum n' bass so loud it was more like broadcasting...

Also, about the guy handing out LAN party stuff... nobody ever did that really, but it'd be like getting busted for handing out birthday party invites - which MANY people did.

Infact, during the anti-war marches in London, I stuck up posters for it here and there....

And there was one occasion when some deputy head-teacher had messed one of my friends around, and we ended up forging a letter and distributing it!! I can't remember why... But it didn't seem like particularly anarchic behaviour at the time.

It's like.... the laws in America seem really restricting. I hear in some states you can only buy 1 drink at a time, at a bar, and then you're not allowed to leave it. Now, while this may sound sensible - not leaving it so it doesn't get spiked, in the UK we just have public awareness of the problem - not LAWS.

In the same way if a teacher didn't want me listening to my music at school, they would have asked me to stop, and only confiscated it as a last resort.

Sorry, I seem to have ranted. (again)

CompUser
Sep 3, 2005, 11:11 AM
My middle school experience was horrible. My principal was new in 6th grade and she came from an inner city school, my town is far from a city (10,000 people 98% white). Every year towards the beginning she would bring each grade into the cafeteria and go over the student handbook.
She would talk about how if you called someone a name like "idiot, stupid, loser, moron, etc" you WILL BE SUSPENDED and THE POLICE WILL BE CALLED, because that is a form of bullying.

She suspended a lot of people, escpecially when I was in 8th grade. Some one called another person "eee-litterate" (not illiterate) and he was suspended for 3 days. Someone said "I'm going to kill you"- that person was suspended for 5 days. Someone gets in a fight with someone- the attacker gets suspended for ONE day.

Which reminds me, they also said if someone starts beating you up, don't fight back. "just cover you head with your arms", or else you WILL be suspended for fighting.

My school though is pretty forgiving of iPods and Cell phones. They don't care if they see them, they just get mad if your using them. If someones cellphone rings or beeps in class, the teachers just say "turn it off", especially since the teachers cell phones always ring durring class time.

My school is rediculous. I know it, everyone else knows it, the parents know it, everyone hates her, she has a mullet,and everyone wants her out except she has the 10yr agreement.

Koodauw
Sep 3, 2005, 12:05 PM
she has a mullet,

The real source of the problem finally comes out. Most places seem to over react a bit. A simple please turn that off should work just fine, but I'm sure a lot of kids don't respond to a simple request.

clayj
Sep 3, 2005, 12:14 PM
It amazes me when people such as yourself are given a very specific set of rules concerning things like cellphones and iPods in school (1. No using them, 2. No having them out of your backpack, 3. If we see it, it's confiscated, etc.) and then you're SURPRISED that the rule was actually enforced.

I just don't understand why people think that they are somehow special with respect to the rules: Oh, those rules are for everyone else, not for me. Or, you shouldn't take it away, because this is a special circumstance (e.g., "I was just showing it to my friend"). Unless the rules allow for special circumstances, there are NO special circumstances.

You're not at school to listen to music and talk to people on the phone. You're there to learn. Keep your electronics stowed and out of sight when school's in session.

musicpyrite
Sep 3, 2005, 12:28 PM
That is ridiculous not being able to have you iPod (or phone, CD player, etc.) back till Wednesday. What if your parents work Wednesdays and they're not able to pick it up? Tell your parents to demand that the school allow you to have you iPod back at your leisure. Remember, the worst thing a high school administration fears are the parents - and what they might do or say to specific people.

What teachers should do if they see you with something like that is to just tell you to put it away. If you don't, that's not their problem. Thievery is a big problem at my school though.

At my high school (I'll be a junior in 4 days :( ) if they 'catch' you with a phone, iPod, or CD player they (the teacher that sees you) take it away for the rest of the day and put's it in their unlocked desk. You can pick it up at the end of the day at 2 PM. Yeah buddy, like I'm going to leave my 200$ iPod and 150$ pair of headphones with my el-cheap-o phone in your desk for a whole day. I've been 'caught' more than once listening to music and talking on my phone during computer tech support class, and have had various teachers try to take them away. I basically tell the to kiss my ass, I'm not giving you anything. If you got a problem with that, talk to the computer tech support teacher. (tech support teacher allows this kind of stuff on a reasonable scale because some students (myself) do a lot of work for her).

Oh, and if your phone goes off in the middle of class because your mom/dad/sibling/etc. are in the hospital or injured for some reason, I think that's justified. But if it goes off in the middle of class so you can talk to your boyfriend or someone, you deserve to have it taken away. That **** is damn annoying.

clayj
Sep 3, 2005, 12:43 PM
That is ridiculous not being able to have you iPod (or phone, CD player, etc.) back till Wednesday. What if your parents work Wednesdays and they're not able to pick it up? Tell your parents to demand that the school allow you to have you iPod back at your leisure. Remember, the worst thing a high school administration fears are the parents - and what they might do or say to specific people.I agree with you on the Wednesday thing... the parent should be able to come by any day after school to pick up confiscated items.

However, I think this is the only thing we're going to agree on.

What teachers should do if they see you with something like that is to just tell you to put it away. If you don't, that's not their problem. Thievery is a big problem at my school though.I'm pretty sure the rules are spelled out in advance, so breaking them is grounds for immediate confiscation of the item. The point is that there should be ZERO disruptions of the learning process due to students' (or teachers') electronic items.

At my high school (I'll be a junior in 4 days :( ) if they 'catch' you with a phone, iPod, or CD player they (the teacher that sees you) take it away for the rest of the day and put's it in their unlocked desk. You can pick it up at the end of the day at 2 PM. Yeah buddy, like I'm going to leave my 200$ iPod and 150$ pair of headphones with my el-cheap-o phone in your desk for a whole day. I've been 'caught' more than once listening to music and talking on my phone during computer tech support class, and have had various teachers try to take them away. I basically tell the to kiss my ass, I'm not giving you anything. If you got a problem with that, talk to the computer tech support teacher. (tech support teacher allows this kind of stuff on a reasonable scale because some students (myself) do a lot of work for her).Well, the desk drawer should be locked. But AGAIN, the point is that your electronic crap should be in the bottom of your backpack, not out where a teacher will see it and confiscate it. If they see it, that's YOUR fault. Right? And your computer tech support teacher should not be allowing students to break school-wide rules.

Oh, and if you told me (if I was a teacher) or one of my teachers (if I was the principal) to "kiss my ass", your ass would be suspended, immediately. Show some damn respect. Kids nowadays don't seem to understand that you are NOT who's in charge.

Oh, and if your phone goes off in the middle of class because your mom/dad/sibling/etc. are in the hospital or injured for some reason, I think that's justified. But if it goes off in the middle of class so you can talk to your boyfriend or someone, you deserve to have it taken away. That **** is damn annoying.Not acceptable. Your phone should be turned OFF during class. You have no right, Constitutional or otherwise, to be reachable 24 hours a day. If someone in your family gets hurt, the school can be called and they can fetch you out of class. Class is not some optional activity that you can just ignore or ditch at will. You're there to learn, and nothing more.

mintlivedotcom
Sep 3, 2005, 01:08 PM
Although I've been pretty tolerant as a teacher posting on this thread, I have to agree with ClayJ.

I am a very relaxed teacher and give students freedom...to a point. My goal is to teach and anything that gets in the way of that will become an issue. I call kids "poopyhead" instead of "stupid" all the time. It's breaks up fights and puts the kids in check...and I've never been reprimanded for calling them that name.

I do think it's a lot different today than when I was in school. We didn't have gadgets to be taken away. However, since it IS different, students need to adapt to the changes in policies/rules. Your iPod shouldn't be more important than your education.

Show respect, get respect.

hob
Sep 3, 2005, 01:35 PM
I think, as I said before, it definately seems better to compromise. Its no good saying "all kids today have no respect" because that's simply not true.

Infact, it's probably just our changing perceptions. When I was beginning school, I'd have never talked to one of the older kids at school, let alone insult them.

By the end of my time at school, I noticed some kids would jeer at the older kids - showing of etc.

BUT when I was younger, I only hung around with people like me - who were quite polite and wouldn't ever do anything like that, thus a lack of perception - therefore a percieved change in behaviour.

There's always good kids and bad kids.

hob
Sep 3, 2005, 01:36 PM
Your iPod shouldn't be more important than your education.
Show respect, get respect.

Exactly - this was my general experience at school.

clayj
Sep 3, 2005, 01:40 PM
I think, as I said before, it definately seems better to compromise. Its no good saying "all kids today have no respect" because that's simply not true.

Infact, it's probably just our changing perceptions. When I was beginning school, I'd have never talked to one of the older kids at school, let alone insult them.

By the end of my time at school, I noticed some kids would jeer at the older kids - showing of etc.

BUT when I was younger, I only hung around with people like me - who were quite polite and wouldn't ever do anything like that, thus a lack of perception - therefore a percieved change in behaviour.

There's always good kids and bad kids.Well, I didn't say that "all kids today have no respect"... but I would say that the number of kids who are willing to tell teachers to "kiss my ass" or who think they are entitled to the same rights as adults (hint: you're not, until you leave high school and turn 18) is much higher today than when I was in high school. I would NEVER have considered talking back to a teacher... not only because it's not the proper way to behave, but also because I knew I'd catch hell from my parents if I did. Obviously, many kids today get crap parenting at home.

As to electronics: If the teacher has to even say "Turn that off", then the class is disrupted. Add up all those disruptions for one class for the entire year, and you're probably losing several days' worth of potential instruction time. Not to mention, those who DO follow the rules are being indirectly punished because of those who think that they should be able to flaunt the rules and do whatever they want.

CompUser
Sep 3, 2005, 04:40 PM
The real source of the problem finally comes out. Most places seem to over react a bit. A simple please turn that off should work just fine, but I'm sure a lot of kids don't respond to a simple request.

Don't you think it is stupid when the principal starts suspending people right and left? If someone calls someone a name, and she or the vice principal hears it, they'll suspend you for 2-3 days most of the time. Why would you take someone out of school for 3 days? Apparently education doesn't matter, disipline does. What kid wouldn't want to be out of school for 3 days.
---

Heres another story: this girl had pictures of Johnny Depp all over her binder. This other girl scribbled out all the pics. The girl complained to a teacher and the teacher sent the two to the office. They made the girl who scribbled out the pictures MAKE A COLLAGE OF JOHNNY DEPP ( :confused: ) and had a week of lunch detensions.

CanadaRAM
Sep 3, 2005, 04:44 PM
Cell phone rules are retarted.

Plus... they take valuable time away from spelling class...

:D

eva01
Sep 3, 2005, 04:47 PM
Not acceptable. Your phone should be turned OFF during class. You have no right, Constitutional or otherwise, to be reachable 24 hours a day. If someone in your family gets hurt, the school can be called and they can fetch you out of class. Class is not some optional activity that you can just ignore or ditch at will. You're there to learn, and nothing more.

Thank-fully the hospital puts me on call once or twice a month and i HAVE to be reachable when i am on call, no matter where i am, school, friends house, grocery store.

So if the hospital needs me to come in for a reason that is for the benefit of my patients then that presides over the school wanting my cell-phone off because my patients health comes before anything else.

And my teachers know this so i put my cellphone on vibrate and keep it in my pocket, if it goes off i walk out of the classroom and answer it.

clayj
Sep 3, 2005, 05:04 PM
Eva, are you in high school, or college? Because there's a HUGE difference... in college classes, things are much more acceptable than they would be in a high school class (e.g., using recorders to take notes, laptops to chat and send e-mail, other silent activities).

If you're in high school, as long as you have a well-documented need to be reachable and the teachers and principal understand that, that's fine. What I'm talking about is people who "have" to be reachable for reasons that aren't in any way extraordinary. The excuse of "well, someone might get hurt and I need to know about it" just doesn't fly.

eva01
Sep 3, 2005, 05:15 PM
I am in college, yet i do know that in some colleges teachers will still confiscate electronics that go off in class.

I wasn't just trying to pick on your post but i was just trying to help out the other side (the students) sometimes there are valuable reasons why the have a cellphone on. If i were a student in HS i would keep it on vibrate and bury it in my pocket.

I was just trying to show the other side of things, and that there really are good kids out there that have reasons for things. Thou most as you said have absolutely no respect for their elders. I would never speak back to a teacher. Heck I am friends with some of the teachers i had in HS. I was the good student.

:)

IndyGopher
Sep 3, 2005, 05:38 PM
Cell phone rules are retarted.
Edit: Oh yes. One time in History this girl's cell phone went off and it was taken up. It was in her purse. Her mother had been in a car wreck and had a really serious ankle injury (the foot was hanging from her body by two tendons.)

I hear people use "reasons" like this for all sorts of things.. mssing school, missing work, etc, and the first question I always have is, "Are you a doctor?" because if you aren't, what is the point in you being away because of this? Someone is sick or hurt... see that they get the appropriate level of medical attention, and then get back to work. What possible good can come from telling a high school student that her mother was in an accident? Especially if it is not life-threatening? Certainly doesn't rate interrupting class. What parent lists their minor child as an emergency contact anyway? If I were injured at work, I certainly would not want (or expect, or tolerate, for that matter) someone calling my child's school to inform him. (Calling HIM of course better be impossible, because if I catch wind of him having a cell phone powered on at school, he'll be without anything running on electricty for quite some time)

Clearly things have changed in schools in the last 20 years, and not much (if any) of it is for the better.

ham_man
Sep 3, 2005, 05:47 PM
A few dip****s ruin it for everyone else. Welcome to life...

jiv3turkey748
Sep 3, 2005, 10:50 PM
It amazes me when people such as yourself are given a very specific set of rules concerning things like cellphones and iPods in school (1. No using them, 2. No having them out of your backpack, 3. If we see it, it's confiscated, etc.) and then you're SURPRISED that the rule was actually enforced.

I just don't understand why people think that they are somehow special with respect to the rules: Oh, those rules are for everyone else, not for me. Or, you shouldn't take it away, because this is a special circumstance (e.g., "I was just showing it to my friend"). Unless the rules allow for special circumstances, there are NO special circumstances.

You're not at school to listen to music and talk to people on the phone. You're there to learn. Keep your electronics stowed and out of sight when school's in session.

are you a teacher or something?

it was at lunch i mean come on and i new they would enforce it but its just a dumb rule to begin with

eva01
Sep 3, 2005, 11:02 PM
I am in total support of the rule unless there is proper documentation for a worthy cause of you having it on and in school.

clayj
Sep 3, 2005, 11:29 PM
are you a teacher or something?

it was at lunch i mean come on and i new they would enforce it but its just a dumb rule to begin withNo, I'm not a teacher. (And I don't play one on TV.)

What I want to know is, Do you understand the concept that they have established these rules for a reason, and you DON'T get to question them? You may think it's dumb, but guess what? It's not your decision. I may think speed limit laws are dumb, but that ain't gonna stop a state trooper from pulling me over and yanking my license if I drive 90 miles per hour.

You're in school to learn, not to talk on the phone or listen to music. If the rules had an exception for lunchtime, that would be one thing.... but they don't.

I expect the ban on iPods/MP3 players and phones has to do not only with their disruptive qualities, but also with safety (e.g., with headphones on you don't hear the fire alarm), courtesy/respect (e.g., you can't hear the principal or a teacher when they are talking to you), theft, and any other number of reasons. Again, you are in school to LEARN.

jiv3turkey748
Sep 3, 2005, 11:51 PM
dude you act like im some thug
i realize i broke a rule and got what they felt i deserved and i know it doesnt it matter what i think of the rule but im still pissed my ipod taken away iknow its my own fault but whatever
i understand where your coming from too and im not trying to create an argument

clayj
Sep 3, 2005, 11:54 PM
dude you act like im some thug
i realize i broke a rule and got what they felt i deserved and i know it doesnt it matter what i think of the rule but im still pissed my ipod taken away iknow its my own fault but whatever
i understand where your coming from too and im not trying to create an argumentI'm not acting like you're a thug. I was just curious as to whether you understood that there are rules for a reason, and if you realized that you had broken them and why. It seems you do, on both counts.

To prevent further instances of your being pissed, I would suggest that from now on, you leave your iPod in your backpack when you are in school.

vincenewmacg4
Sep 5, 2005, 07:05 PM
Heh i wouldn't let a teacher touch my iPod, if they touched it i would then have to use self defense and say i thought they were trying to grab me by the wrist to injure me so i broke their hand. Come on now kiddies, let's not forget that school is a learning institution.Leave the Ipods and cell phones either off or in the locker.

hob
Sep 5, 2005, 07:43 PM
Heh i wouldn't let a teacher touch my iPod, if they touched it i would then have to use self defense and say i thought they were trying to grab me by the wrist to injure me so i broke their hand.
ClayJ - I take back what I said based on the above comments.

I swear, I left secondary school 3 years ago - in the last 5-6 years behaviour has steadily declined....

If you say it's down to poor parenting, what happened to all the 25-40 year olds?

ColoJohnBoy
Sep 5, 2005, 09:58 PM
An important distinction ought be made in this case: whether the iPods were being used during class, or in bewteen classes, during lunch period or some other break. If, in fact, the iPods were being used during class, then their confiscation is justified, and the teacher or administrator ought return it at the end of the class period. On a break, however, using an iPod or cell phone causes no significant disruption to the educational environment - it probably makes the school day infinitely more bearable. To confiscate it then is disrespectful to the student and his or her rights to personal property. To require the parents to retrieve it at a very specific time is a ridiculous and unreasonable extension of this.

clayj - You're correct in that school is a place to learn; to expect every spare minute at school be devoted to an educational purpose is unreasonable. At my high school, we were given ten minutes between class periods, variable scheduling that allowed "off" hours, and forty minutes for lunch. How is listening to music during one of those periods disruptive to your education or that of any other person? What if I happened to be listening to Mozart or another classical composer, one whose music has been proven to enhance one's ability to absorb information? Is that disruptive?

Your posts are coming off poorly. You seem personally offended by this person's actions; your reprimands are condescending and inappropriate. Perhaps you shouldn't take this matter so seriously.

faintember
Sep 5, 2005, 10:13 PM
I agree with Clayj in most of his points. Here is what it boils down to for me:

1) Cell phones have no place in high-school or earlier, unless there is a medical or family reason that requires the student to have a cell phone. You do not need to use your cell phone in-between classes. Also cell phones can be used to cheat.

2) iPods should not be used in class, but should be cool everywhere else provided that some scholarly/school oriented activity is not going on.

I teach a class at my university. My syllabus basically says be on time, turn assignments in on time, and never, ever, ever let your cell phone ring or vibrate in class unless you have a valid medical or family reason to have the phone on. The second time their cell phone rings/vibrates 5 points are deducted from their final grade. I haven't had one incident with cell phones since i implemented this policy.

Rule are rules, learn to live by them or accept the consequences. In my HS days there was a new dress code rule about girls not being able to wear short skirts. Well me and my friends decided to wear "illegal" short skirts to school the next day (btw, we are all guys!). Needless to say we accepted our punishment, but the very next day the school released a new revised dress code that is gender unspecific. Moral of the story: don't whip your iPod out unless you plan on using it! ;)

clayj
Sep 5, 2005, 10:21 PM
ColoJohnBoy: Wow. I think my point went right over your head; perhaps not.

The question is not whether listening to music during breaks between classes*, or during lunch, or during "off" hours (which we never had when I was in high school; you were in class every period except when you were having lunch), when no teaching is in progress. And it's not what you might be listening to. And it's not whether it's disruptive in any way. These are all side issues to the main point.

The point is that the administration have set forth a rule, in specific terms, that's to be followed. "If you have your iPod out during school hours and we see it, it will be confiscated." There are no exceptions listed because there are no exceptions. Yet, even though the rule is spelled out clearly enough for anyone to understand it, people STILL don't follow it... and then they complain when they lose their iPod. To them, I ask: Which part of "no" didn't you understand?

When you're in high school, the administration gets to make the rules, and the students are expected to follow them. And when the rules are spelled out clearly, there is no excuse for failing to follow them. I don't understand why anyone has a hard time understanding this.

Call me a stickler for the rules, but I am really tired of the Boston Public phenomenon of (1) students doing whatever they like, (2) their parents and/or lawyers interfering in the operation of the schools, and (3) people complaining about how the schools in this country aren't doing their job while, at the same time, not allowing them to do their job. An important part of fixing the schools in this country is re-establishing a sense of respect for authority among those students who are lacking. Part of THAT is drilling into people the concept of "here are the rules, follow them or suffer the consequences". Too many people think they're immune to the rules.

And, yes, I *do* take it seriously. (Condescending and inappropriate? Not according to the other responses I've received.)

* Oh, and the breaks are supposed to be just long enough for you to get from one class to another. It's not recess, it's transit time.

faintember
Sep 5, 2005, 10:23 PM
* Oh, and the breaks are supposed to be just long enough for you to get from one class to another. It's not recess, it's transit time. Can clayj get an Amen?


Amen!

ColoJohnBoy
Sep 5, 2005, 10:28 PM
Cell phones have no place in high-school or earlier, unless there is a medical or family reason that requires the student to have a cell phone. You do not need to use your cell phone in-between classes. Also cell phones can be used to cheat.

That's really expecting the worst in people. You can't expect anybody to learn personal responsibility if you don't give them the opportunity to exercise it. Contrary to perception, high school students do have lives outside school and family, regardless of their content. Generally, no, nobody needs to use a phone between classes. What is needed is trust, understanding that it will sometime be breached, in the ability of teenagers to make good decisions. By and large, they do. Give people your trust and responsibility, and more likely than not they'll live up to your expectations.

faintember
Sep 5, 2005, 10:30 PM
That's really expecting the worst in people. You can't expect anybody to learn personal responsibility if you don't give them the opportunity to exercise it. Contrary to perception, high school students do have lives outside school and family, regardless of their content. Generally, no, nobody needs to use a phone between classes. What is needed is trust, understanding that it will sometime be breached, in the ability of teenagers to make good decisions. By and large, they do. Give people your trust and responsibility, and more likely than not they'll live up to your expectations. You have never been a teacher in a public school, have you? I will trust students more if they would follow the current rules. A good decision would be to follow the rules.

clayj
Sep 5, 2005, 10:33 PM
You have never been a teacher in a public school, have you? I will trust students more if they would follow the current rules. A good decision would be to follow the rules.Yeah, I dunno what he's talking about. His idea seems to be "let's just trust everyone to do the right thing". Hell, let's let students carry guns into schools, and trust that they will only use them when they NEED to.

I know, my example is extreme. But part of learning personal responsibility is learning to follow the rules which apply to us all... within the microcosm of a school, that means following the policies established by the school board, the superintendent, and the principal.

ColoJohnBoy
Sep 5, 2005, 10:43 PM
I don't advocate breaking the rules. I advocate questioning the purposes of the rules themselves, the motives of those instating them. Administrators, teachers, parents, etc. have a tendency to paint everything with too broad a stroke, ignoring the complexities of the situation, whatever it may be. I'm saying that being so restrictive in regulating behavior will more likely than not backfire. I've no desire to respect those who pay me none. I followed the rules, to be sure, but deeply resented the fact that I was viewed no differently than the other 2000 people at my school: as one who cannot be trusted to make his own decisions, one who hasn't the capacity to understand "the real world". Yes, I'll follow the rules, but not without question, and, if warranted, not without a fight.

ColoJohnBoy
Sep 5, 2005, 10:45 PM
Yeah, I dunno what he's talking about. His idea seems to be "let's just trust everyone to do the right thing". Hell, let's let students carry guns into schools, and trust that they will only use them when they NEED to.

I'll thank you to not use that as an example. It is much too close to home.

clayj
Sep 5, 2005, 10:48 PM
I don't advocate breaking the rules. I advocate questioning the purposes of the rules themselves, the motives of those instating them. Administrators, teachers, parents, etc. have a tendency to paint everything with too broad a stroke, ignoring the complexities of the situation, whatever it may be. I'm saying that being so restrictive in regulating behavior will more likely than not backfire. I've no desire to respect those who pay me none. I followed the rules, to be sure, but deeply resented the fact that I was viewed no differently than the other 2000 people at my school: as one who cannot be trusted to make his own decisions, one who hasn't the capacity to understand "the real world". Yes, I'll follow the rules, but not without question, and, if warranted, not without a fight.OK, but the point is that a broad brush is REQUIRED, since the principal of a typical high school may be responsible for 2000 students and 100 teachers. The options are simple: Create a set of LCD (Lowest Common Denominator) rules that apply to everyone with the least amount of fuss, or try to manage a giant group of people using flexible rules that require a lot of effort.

In this case, too many students use iPods or cellphones inappropriately (with respect to maintaining the teaching environment), and in order to preserve said teaching environment, those devices are banned... not just from operation, but from even being seen.

And questioning the rules does not require BREAKING the rules. If you think a particular policy is unfair, too harsh, or just plain dumb, take it up with the responsible authorities. But breaking the rules just because you think they're dumb isn't going to work.

I'll thank you to not use that as an example. It is much too close to home.Sorry, didn't realize till just now that you are near Columbine. My bad.

ColoJohnBoy
Sep 5, 2005, 10:50 PM
Well, I actually went to Columbine. Thank you, though, for your courtesy.

faintember
Sep 6, 2005, 02:17 AM
Yes, I'll follow the rules, but not without question, and, if warranted, not without a fight. Questioning the rules is fine, and i actually support questioning rules, and breaking them, however i tend to aim that portion of my mind/intrests into breaking the laws and norms of music.

Keep in mind we are talking about a iPod. Jeez, the kid could get it back. I remember when teachers took things from students and you did not get them back until the end of the year. It is a simple rule to follow, so bring a cd player to school instead of the iPod (that is if cd players are even allowed at the OP's school). Or better yet, wait until school is over then listen to music until your heart is content.

See, as a teacher you are expected to follow the rules. Why? Because if you take Johnny's iPod from him when he has it out to show to a friend, and you don't take Sally's iPod which she is using to make an audio recording of the class, then you open yourself to problems legally. Is it silly? Of course. Does it make sense in the trial-happy world that the US lives in? Yes. Teachers want to cover their asses and i do not blame them.

I really wish that we could trust students with iPods out in class, but undoubtedly there will be a few students that abuse the privilege and then a rule has to be made, for rules, and laws are typically aimed at the minority of a group of people. If it were a magnet school for music and performing arts i could see them allowing iPods, it just makes sense that students studying music should be listening to music all of the time, but in a traditional school environment an iPod is not necessary or warranted. The problem is that the OP was talking to another girl to play funny songs on the OP's iPod, so not only was he not paying attention, he was helping to inhibit another students ability to learn, and that is where the problem lies.

AmericanIdiot12
Sep 6, 2005, 05:07 AM
i think it would be hilarious if he printed this out and brought it in sort of like a petition

AmericanIdiot12
Sep 6, 2005, 05:12 AM
why don't you tell them you have a school project saved on it, and that you need to finish working on it while your in flori-da.

knowing gwinnett co. (georgia of course) he would get iss for lying because all these rednecks here know you cant save a school project to an ipod

BrianDavid0523
Sep 6, 2005, 08:16 AM
Serves you right Missey! I hope you learned a lesson from this.

weg
Sep 6, 2005, 08:28 AM
your allowed to have ipods/ cell phones out before and after school but if they even see an ipod even if its turned off they take it away

another kid today got his taken away for checking the time

Ask your congress man to bring up the issue of changing the constitution.. every American should have the right to carry an iPod. I'm sure Steve Jobs will help you found a National iPod Association ;-)

mox358
Sep 6, 2005, 12:18 PM
To me this reinforces the idea that american high schools are becoming less and less of an educational environment and more of a prison. I remember when I was in high school (5 years ago?) and my teachers were very, very good at yelling at students, writing up detentions and handing out in-school suspensions. Their competence to teach however was a little lacking.

Are teachers becoming less interested about actually TEACHING and more interested about being in-control and flexing some muscle? Are high-school teachers on a giant power trip these days?

We weren't allowed to have cell phones at my school, but not because it interfered with learning. Originally it was ok, but apparently the school noticed a big decline in the use of a pay-phone that was installed for students to use during lunch. Whoever made the money from that pay-phone got pissy, and we had a cell-phone ban so that you had to use the pay-phone to make calls. Ridiculous? You bet!

I worry about the US educational system as it is. I had quite a few teachers who didn't actually know that much about the subjects they were teaching. I also had a lot of teachers who were "in it for the sports", meaning they were only teaching so they could coach a sports team. One teacher refused to help me with algebra 2 homework because she had a cheerleading meeting EVERY DAY. I had another teacher who was the football coach. He came into the classroom (about 5 minutes after the bell) handed us tests, gave a reading assignment, or put on a video, and left and went out to the weight-room with the football players. That man wasn't in his own classroom for a total of 2 hours a semester.!

I understand that we need to get students to pay attention and not play with their iPods. But perhaps the best way to do it would be to increase the quality of teachers in american high schools so that the student actually wanted to learn, and would not bring their iPod voluntarily. Granted you should be able to use it on a break ( transit-time, lunch, etc...). The american educational system needs to have the plumbing fixed as it stands right now. Just my 2 cents.

puckhead193
Sep 6, 2005, 12:37 PM
those cell phone rules things are stupid. If your not listening to it in class then their should be no problem...if its a disraction then you shouldn't have them, that's my philosophy.
WHen i was in HS i had a laptop so i just listen to music/movies on my laptop... HAHA

wrxguy
Sep 6, 2005, 12:48 PM
I had to drive from CA to FL for work in June and in Texas my ipod's HD crashed and i had to wait till Miami to get a new one...it was hell...you need to get your pod back NOW....i haven't been in high school in about 4 years now but I tell you that is ********...

Eniregnat
Sep 6, 2005, 01:01 PM
I am sorry that your iPods were taken. There are far worse things to have confiscated. While expensive and fun, they really arenít going to get you in trouble. Firecrackers, home made comics or stories, and pictures of the vice principle on a date with somebody other than her husband... that kind of thing gets you in real trouble- except with the vice principal. ;)

It is sad that lots of people can just think and be on their own with out technolgy. It saddens me when I see Americans in foreign countries listing to iPods and the like, when they could be soaking in the local culture. The same hold true to PSP users and people who can't take a moment to stop reading. While country music may not be your thing, it isn't going to kill you. At best you gain some insights into you family, and at worst you know what the elevators will be playing in Hell. For me, if I end up in Hell I know that I will be hearing smooth jazz, and the Devil will have my iPod.

Mord
Sep 6, 2005, 01:54 PM
that sucks, makes me glad i go to a school where i can use my ipod in class, go to the toilet when i want, wear whatever cloths i like and have teachers that i acctually like as people :eek:. people complain about my school, but it acctually rules compared to most others.

jiv3turkey748
Sep 6, 2005, 02:15 PM
that sucks, makes me glad i go to a school where i can use my ipod in class, go to the toilet when i want, wear whatever cloths i like and have teachers that i acctually like as people :eek:. people complain about my school, but it acctually rules compared to most others.

dude i want to go to your school
time to move to england

Mord
Sep 6, 2005, 02:23 PM
the only bad thing is the head is a windows nazi, though i'm friends with the system admin who is a linux geek he gave me all the proxy info and WEP keys to use my ibook on the school wireless network, oh and i can use my ibook to do all my school work on, and the odd session of EV nova when i have finished my work, heck in maths i had a street fighter II turbo match between me and my math teacher with snes9x, and he kicked my ass :o.

yellow
Sep 6, 2005, 02:30 PM
Less iPoding, more studying (of English).

AmericanIdiot12
Sep 6, 2005, 02:30 PM
What I want to know is, Do you understand the concept that they have established these rules for a reason, and you DON'T get to question them? You may think it's dumb, but guess what? It's not your decision. I may think speed limit laws are dumb, but that ain't gonna stop a state trooper from pulling me over and yanking my license if I drive 90 miles per hour.

You're in school to learn, not to talk on the phone or listen to music. If the rules had an exception for lunchtime, that would be one thing.... but they don't.

this is blowing it totally out of proportion. speed limit laws are to keep you from losing control and DYING or killing other people. that ipod rule is there to keep you from distracting other people.

i definately agree ipods should be confiscated if they are being used or shown off in class without permission

but come on...lunch is the only break (>20 minutes) in the day of four 1 hour and 30 minute classes (i go to the same school as jiv3turkey)

were not exactly complaining that the rule was enforced but were complaining that the rule is as strict as it is with as few exceptions as it has

the reason speed limit laws are the way they are is because representatives of the people voted them to be that way. the same should be true for school rules such as that...the students should get some say via a representative

rjphoto
Sep 6, 2005, 02:46 PM
(i go to the same school as jiv3turkey)



Well, did he get it back before the trip??

Mord
Sep 6, 2005, 02:50 PM
Less iPoding, more studying (of English).

i dont take English, in the UK you specialize in the four subjects you like at 16 and then three at 17, thus i do what i actually enjoy physics maths and electronics, not being stuck in lessons which i'm held back by my dyslexia.

AmericanIdiot12
Sep 6, 2005, 02:57 PM
Well, did he get it back before the trip??

nope.

i think he had his ibook though which is just as good (though it has half the battery life)

clayj
Sep 6, 2005, 03:07 PM
this is blowing it totally out of proportion. speed limit laws are to keep you from losing control and DYING or killing other people. that ipod rule is there to keep you from distracting other people.It's not blowing it out of proportion if I'm trying to prove a point, which you actually do for me later on in your post. Yes, the iPod rule is in place to eliminate distractions from the learning process.

i definately agree ipods should be confiscated if they are being used or shown off in class without permissionWell, we agree on something.

but come on...lunch is the only break (>20 minutes) in the day of four 1 hour and 30 minute classes (i go to the same school as jiv3turkey)So? Are you telling me that you can't go 6 or 7 hours without listening to music?

were not exactly complaining that the rule was enforced but were complaining that the rule is as strict as it is with as few exceptions as it hasWell, time to get your parents to talk to the principal about how strict the rule is. But I would imagine that the rule is that strict out of necessity.

the reason speed limit laws are the way they are is because representatives of the people voted them to be that way. the same should be true for school rules such as that...the students should get some say via a representativeThanks for reinforcing my point for me. You do have a say... your parents make it for you. Your parents vote for the school board; the school board selects the superintendent, and the superintendent hires the principals. All those people are duly elected or appointed for the purpose of running the school system. And they've decided how best to run the schools.

Just in case you forgot, though... minors don't get to vote in real elections. It's a privilege you earn when you become old enough.

jiv3turkey748
Sep 6, 2005, 03:07 PM
Well, did he get it back before the trip??

no i get it tomarrow

jiv3turkey748
Sep 6, 2005, 03:11 PM
Thanks for reinforcing my point for me. You do have a say... your parents make it for you. Your parents vote for the school board; the school board selects the superintendent, and the superintendent hires the principals. All those people are duly elected or appointed for the purpose of running the school system. And they've decided how best to run the schools.

Just in case you forgot, though... minors don't get to vote in real elections. It's a privilege you earn when you become old enough.

do you really think parents look that deep into it when they vote for superintendent come on

clayj
Sep 6, 2005, 03:14 PM
do you really think parents look that deep into it when they vote for superintendent come onMaybe yours don't, but some do. If you don't like school policies, your parents have the power to vote for someone else when the next election rolls around... or they can talk to the principal when they pick up your iPod about how unfair you think the rule is (in whole, or in part).

But I imagine the principal will echo virtually everything I've said here. Next time, keep your iPod where it belongs: in your backpack, out of sight.

AmericanIdiot12
Sep 6, 2005, 03:16 PM
So? Are you telling me that you can't go 6 or 7 hours without listening to music?

with difficulty i can
what im saying is that i cant go that long without a nice break...i stand in line 5-10 minutes because our school has about 700 people for each lunch all buying food at one time and i spend the other 10-15 eating so i really dont have time to talk most days and when i get that rare extra time i like to spend it having fun

Thanks for reinforcing my point for me. You do have a say... your parents make it for you. Your parents vote for the school board; the school board selects the superintendent, and the superintendent hires the principals. All those people are duly elected or appointed for the purpose of running the school system. And they've decided how best to run the schools.

that would make the superintendent representative of the parents wouldn't it? i still dont get a say...the only place where students can voice their opinion is in student council and even then it doesnt matter if the school board doesnt approve

yellow
Sep 6, 2005, 03:18 PM
i dont take English, in the UK you specialize in the four subjects you like at 16 and then three at 17, thus i do what i actually enjoy physics maths and electronics, not being stuck in lessons which i'm held back by my dyslexia.

That wasn't for you.. it was four our Hot 'Lanta friend who doesn't have the time for punctuation or capitalization.

clayj
Sep 6, 2005, 03:24 PM
with difficulty i can
what im saying is that i cant go that long without a nice break...i stand in line 5-10 minutes because our school has about 700 people for each lunch all buying food at one time and i spend the other 10-15 eating so i really dont have time to talk most days and when i get that rare extra time i like to spend it having funNot to sound too condescending here, but I have to say it... Aw, you poor baby. Suck it up. I'd hate to see how you'd deal with being stranded on a tropical island. Or when you move out into the Real World and have to work an 8-hour day.

that would make the superintendent representative of the parents wouldn't it? i still dont get a say...the only place where students can voice their opinion is in student council and even then it doesnt matter if the school board doesnt approveWelcome to not being 18. You still have the ability to try to influence your parents' vote.

AmericanIdiot12
Sep 6, 2005, 04:48 PM
Not to sound too condescending here, but I have to say it... Aw, you poor baby. Suck it up. I'd hate to see how you'd deal with being stranded on a tropical island. Or when you move out into the Real World and have to work an 8-hour day.

once you count classes, class changes, bus rides, and homework...school lasts 9-10 hours

that doesnt include my job on the side which i usually work 5 hours in the week and 9 on the weekends, guitar lessons, church, and key club (community service)

plus most people are allowed to listen to music at work and i know it must be tough (maybe not for you but for many) to telecommute and work only about four hours but getting credit for eight (i know someone who does)

not saying school is harder than all jobs but it definately compares to most

clayj
Sep 6, 2005, 05:10 PM
once you count classes, class changes, bus rides, and homework...school lasts 9-10 hoursYes, but you're allowed to listen to your iPod on the bus, right? And homework doesn't count, because you can do whatever you like (music, TV in background, etc.). I'm talking about the period of time where your iPod is off limits.

that doesnt include my job on the side which i usually work 5 hours in the week and 9 on the weekends, guitar lessons, church, and key club (community service)All of which you volunteered for, I would assume. (Except for maybe the church part.)

plus most people are allowed to listen to music at work and i know it must be tough (maybe not for you but for many) to telecommute and work only about four hours but getting credit for eight (i know someone who does)You're wrong there. Most people are NOT allowed to strap on their iPod at work... anyone in retail, the restaurant business, a tech support environment, office jobs (banking, etc.), and most other normal jobs do NOT have the option of putting on headphones for any reason while they're working... the reason being that you have to interact with other people and headphones make it look like you're not working or don't care.

jiv3turkey748
Sep 6, 2005, 05:28 PM
Yes, but you're allowed to listen to your iPod on the bus, right? And homework doesn't count, because you can do whatever you like (music, TV in background, etc.). I'm talking about the period of time where your iPod is off limits.


we cant listen to the on the bus either

AmericanIdiot12
Sep 6, 2005, 06:09 PM
Yes, but you're allowed to listen to your iPod on the bus, right? And homework doesn't count, because you can do whatever you like (music, TV in background, etc.). I'm talking about the period of time where your iPod is off limits.

definately cant listen to it on the bus

You're wrong there. Most people are NOT allowed to strap on their iPod at work... anyone in retail, the restaurant business, a tech support environment, office jobs (banking, etc.), and most other normal jobs do NOT have the option of putting on headphones for any reason while they're working... the reason being that you have to interact with other people and headphones make it look like you're not working or don't care.

true but im talking about radio/speakers in jobs behind a desk
(which does not include mine...)