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vniow
Nov 24, 2002, 10:44 PM
(Los Alamos-AP) -- Personnel cutting trees in a canyon east of Los Alamos have been warned that some trees in the area might be radioactive.

Los Alamos National Laboratory officials have informed the U.S. Forest Service and Los Alamos County not to remove trees cut in certain parts of Bayo Canyon.

Lab spokesman James Rickman says small sections at the bottom of the canyon, formerly known as Technical Area 10, were used from the 1940s until 1961 as test sites by scientists studying explosions.

Rickman says it's not really that there's a risk, but the lab wanted to point that out.

The Forest Service is helping Los Alamos County with thinning projects on county land. The crews are thinning dense ponderosa stands in an effort to reduce the danger of a large-scale fire near the town.

As an added precaution, Forest Service and county crews have opted not to remove any vegetation from the canyon.

They are grinding the trees into mulch. (http://www.kobtv.com/archive/2002/november/23/radioactive_trees.htm)

al256
Nov 24, 2002, 11:04 PM
Originally posted by edvniow
(http://www.kobtv.com/archive/2002/november/23/radioactive_trees.htm)

So what's your commentary on it? Man, I feel like this kinda like hit and run spam. If you at least posted a comment I wouldn't say this, but how should we talk about this post. I'm not saying to this to be a jerk, but I'm just kinda asking/ saying my opinon.

ON the article it's self, I think it's sad how much we pollute this planet.

rainman::|:|
Nov 24, 2002, 11:07 PM
stay tuned for The Attack of the Radioactive Mulch!

vniow
Nov 24, 2002, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by al256


So what's your commentary on it? Man, I feel like this kinda like hit and run spam. If you at least posted a comment I wouldn't say this, but how should we talk about this post. I'm not saying to this to be a jerk, but I'm just kinda asking/ saying my opinon.

ON the article it's self, I think it's sad how much we pollute this planet.


I'm just the messenger.
If I had thought of a comment I would have put one there.
You can make any comment you want about the article you want, I just bring it to you.

And with that post I spam my way up one more non-existent post count.

Roger1
Nov 25, 2002, 08:59 AM
Can I assume they are going to leave the mulch in the canyon?
Question: What is the benefit of grinding up the trees, as opposed to just leaving them? I know they won't be able to be harvested now, but how about radioactivity-wise. Won't the dust blow around now?

Mr. Anderson
Nov 25, 2002, 10:13 AM
They're grinding them up because if they go up in flames the smoke and ash will effectively be fall out - not good. Now as for what they do with the mulch, well, that shouldn't just be left to sit there.

I wonder if anyone did any studies on the trees to see if they've mutated....

D

MisterBlack
Nov 25, 2002, 01:25 PM
Interestingly, radiation does not cause things to mutate, glow green or gain additional limbs (tree pun). It simply causes them to die, or grow cancer. I guess you could consider cancer a mutation, but i just consider it damage. The trees will not be gaining the genetic code of the scientists involved in the nuke tests in the 40s, thus creating an unstoppable race of superintelligent homicidal trees, bent on stopping communists. Unfortunately.
If that happened, I bet some other scientists could remutate the trees to create an unstoppable race of superintelligent homicidal trees bent on stopping terrorists instead of communists. This would be very advantageous for the current presidential administration. Since communists came to be known as 'commies', does that mean terrorists are 'terries'? And what effect will this have on the emotional state of people named Terry? Only time, and thousands of subterranian barrels of radioactive tree mulch, will tell.

MrMacMan
Nov 25, 2002, 02:11 PM
That is really sad, I mean the trees as nuclear, damn I've heard of mutated animals but never trees that give off radation.:eek:
RUN THE TREES ARE ATTACKING!!!:D

Mr. Anderson
Nov 25, 2002, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by MisterBlack
Interestingly, radiation does not cause things to mutate, glow green or gain additional limbs (tree pun).

That's not entirely correct. Maybe I shouldn't have used the word mutate here, but it is applicable. Studies done at Chernobyl have shown that the radiation speeds up genetic change - cancer is also a side effect - but basically it speeds evolution which is mutation.

D

rainman::|:|
Nov 25, 2002, 06:59 PM
True. While mutations might not be signifigant in the directly-exposed trees, any seeds they produced would grow very messed up saplings. Have you seen pictures of the monsters that were birthed after Chernobyl? i think it's good that they're destroying these trees, but it seems like an incredible amount of time passed before they did anything... i wonder how much radiation spread into the surrounding soil through the roots... groundwater affected... much worse environmental damage than would have been done by bulldozing the area right after the tests.

You know, when scientists set off the first atomic bomb (testing) in New Mexico, some of them feared that the reaction would continue and there would basically be a small sun forever out in the desert.

And they tested it anyway.

pnw

Mr. Anderson
Nov 25, 2002, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by paulwhannel

You know, when scientists set off the first atomic bomb (testing) in New Mexico, some of them feared that the reaction would continue and there would basically be a small sun forever out in the desert.


Its even worse than that - there was concern that the explosion would cause the atmosphere - planet wide - to burn. That would not be a good thing. I just hope that if we develop other super weapons in the future that they don't get tested on the planet....

D

MacBandit
Nov 26, 2002, 01:45 AM
Originally posted by dukestreet


Its even worse than that - there was concern that the explosion would cause the atmosphere - planet wide - to burn. That would not be a good thing. I just hope that if we develop other super weapons in the future that they don't get tested on the planet....

D

Yeah at the time there knowledge of the actual fission reaction was so lacking that they had no idea if it would grow, continue, or stop. For all they new all the Hydrogen in the world would go kaboom. There was enough doubt on the chances of that though that they considered it an acceptable risk.:)

chmorley
Nov 26, 2002, 09:36 AM
Originally posted by dukestreet
That's not entirely correct. Maybe I shouldn't have used the word mutate here, but it is applicable. Studies done at Chernobyl have shown that the radiation speeds up genetic change - cancer is also a side effect - but basically it speeds evolution which is mutation.Well, not really. Saying evolution=mutation is like saying driving=speed. Certainly, mutation is necessary for evolution, but the essential piece of evolution is selection. When new features (due to mutation) work better than old ones, change occurs. Most of the time, these new features are either disadvantageous or simply benign. Usually those animals die without getting to pass on their new traits.

In addition, small changes seem to be better accommodated than drastic ones. Gradual change seems to produce lasting change. The type of change produced by radiation is typically drastic, disadvantageous change. As these mutated organisms don't get to pass on their genetic material most of the time, it's difficult to say this is evolution. It is variation, which helps evolution along, but it's not productive.

As much as the X-Men would have you believe otherwise...

Chris