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brad
Nov 28, 2002, 07:08 PM
A while ago it was tutted that 17" Powerbooks could possibly be on the agenda after the introduction of Fdigital screens.

Can anyone shed some light on the possibility, ETA, etc. ?

:confused:

adamcoop
Nov 28, 2002, 07:31 PM
Originally posted by brad
A while ago it was tutted that 17" Powerbooks could possibly be on the agenda after the introduction of Fdigital screens.


Just out of interest, what were Fdigital screens?
(I'm assuming that's not just a typo:D )

zimv20
Nov 28, 2002, 08:44 PM
and while we're at it, what's "tutted?"

AssassinOfGates
Nov 28, 2002, 08:57 PM
17"??? That seems a little big to fit in a case or even in an airline seat. I highly doubt it.

mymemory
Nov 28, 2002, 09:21 PM
Why not a 23" powerbook?

Dude, there is a limit for things. 15" is about too big for a portable computer. Bigger than that would not be that "portable" any more.

saabmp3
Nov 28, 2002, 09:28 PM
I belive that there are IBM mobile workstations with 17inch LCD screens. The point of the matter is, they don't move. They are the type of comptuer you set up and move maybe once a week, that's all. The 15.2 inch screen on the PB right now is great IMHO.

BEN

FelixDerKater
Nov 28, 2002, 09:30 PM
15" in the current widescreen format is fine. Anything smaller isn't acceptable after using one. SONY makes a VAIO laptop with a 16.1" display and that just seems too big. I'm not saying that I wouldn't liek a bigger display, but that is why you have video out on the laptops. Maybe Apple could come up with a more space conserving model with less casing around the display, just like they did with the TiBooks.

MacBandit
Nov 28, 2002, 10:02 PM
Oh yeah I want a 23" HD PowerBook!!!!:D

rainman::|:|
Nov 28, 2002, 11:11 PM
Although a 17" won't happen, what about a HD version of the tibook? i don't know enough about LCDs to know the technicals, are they thicker or something? i think it'd be cool to see it... 'course it would cost a bundle... i suppose there wouldn't be too many practical applications... perhaps this isnt a great idea...

:)
pnw

MacBandit
Nov 29, 2002, 12:55 AM
Originally posted by paulwhannel
Although a 17" won't happen, what about a HD version of the tibook? i don't know enough about LCDs to know the technicals, are they thicker or something? i think it'd be cool to see it... 'course it would cost a bundle... i suppose there wouldn't be too many practical applications... perhaps this isnt a great idea...

:)
pnw

HD has to do with the number of pixels on the screen. There are several formats for HD and you will hear a few if you go to your local electronics store. Everything from 540i to 1280p. 540 being 540 lines of resolution. The i stands for Interlaced meaning every frame is opposite or interlacing lines. The p stands for progressive which is a true high-def image. I'm not sure why they call it progressive. Any how moving along to the point. All these different sizes are just different factors of a true high-def image. True HD is 1920x1200. Now if you check you will see that the 23" HD Apple Cinema Display is 1920x1200.

I hope this clears a few things up.

scem0
Nov 29, 2002, 01:25 AM
It would be waaaaaaaaaaay to heavy, and waaaaay to big. No
one would want to buy that and then lug it around. Not to mention,
it would be very expensive......

WannabeSQ
Nov 29, 2002, 02:46 AM
I think there might be a market for semi portable truely desktop replacement machines. Slap an LCD with a hinge onto an xServe and Viola! It wouldnt need batteries, as it would suck power anyway, but it would be possible to move it around, and use it without hooking up peripherals (although youd probably want a mouse over a trackpad) That said, I dont think there is a market for this, nor do I think apple will make one. The few people that do need semi portability can just buy an LCD and an xserve and make a custom case for it.

BenderBot1138
Nov 29, 2002, 03:19 AM
It's HD ... I swear... everything is going HD.

Truth, MacRumor, or both???

:cool:

redAPPLE
Nov 29, 2002, 04:29 AM
Originally posted by brad
A while ago it was tutted that 17" Powerbooks could possibly be on the agenda after the introduction of Fdigital screens.

Can anyone shed some light on the possibility, ETA, etc. ?

:confused:

anybody heard about ETA?

it's this terror group or sumthin', right?

backspinner
Nov 29, 2002, 04:59 AM
As a die-hard TiBook user I want to comment that bigger is not better in this case. The TiBook fits just fine in my cases and bags. It's just possible to take it on the edge and not having it bending all over.

If you make it 2 inch wider, it will become too big to handle. A big screen is nice, but portability and handleability is more important for powerbook owners.

Nipsy
Nov 29, 2002, 04:59 AM
Originally posted by MacBandit


HD has to do with the number of pixels on the screen. There are several formats for HD and you will hear a few if you go to your local electronics store. Everything from 540i to 1280p. 540 being 540 lines of resolution. The i stands for Interlaced meaning every frame is opposite or interlacing lines. The p stands for progressive which is a true high-def image. I'm not sure why they call it progressive. Any how moving along to the point. All these different sizes are just different factors of a true high-def image. True HD is 1920x1200. Now if you check you will see that the 23" HD Apple Cinema Display is 1920x1200.

I hope this clears a few things up.

Well, there is not really a true HDTV format yet, as no standards body has ratafied one.

What you're prolly talking about is 1080i, which is 1920x1080. Then there's 720p, and also some really enormous HDTV resolutions which represent different aspect ratios (and are too big for the Cinema HD).

Now, 1920x1200 on a PB would require either a huge PB, great vision, or an increase of Aqua chrome and font sizes to be usable. It would drive the price of the machine up at least $1500. A 15.2" panel at 1600x1024 seens a much more likely compromise in a laptop intended to travel.

Interesting links:
http://www.pixeltwisters.com/infosource-vidres.html
http://members.shaw.ca/quadibloc/other/aspint.htm

MacBandit
Nov 29, 2002, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by Nipsy


Well, there is not really a true HDTV format yet, as no standards body has ratafied one.

What you're prolly talking about is 1080i, which is 1920x1080. Then there's 720p, and also some really enormous HDTV resolutions which represent different aspect ratios (and are too big for the Cinema HD).

Now, 1920x1200 on a PB would require either a huge PB, great vision, or an increase of Aqua chrome and font sizes to be usable. It would drive the price of the machine up at least $1500. A 15.2" panel at 1600x1024 seens a much more likely compromise in a laptop intended to travel.

Interesting links:
http://www.pixeltwisters.com/infosource-vidres.html
http://members.shaw.ca/quadibloc/other/aspint.htm

You are correct in the 1920x1080. That is what I meant but there are no resolutions larger then that approoved for DTV use.

Here is a page that explains HDTV in detail.

http://www.hdtvinfoport.com/high-definition-television.html

Also here is the page for the standards committee on HDTV that lists the different formats.

http://www.atsc.org/guide_default.html

Mr. Dibbs
Nov 29, 2002, 04:43 PM
one thing of importance i feel the need to mention is that all LCD displays used by apple are digital, which means that there is no such thing as refresh rate, or interlaced vs. progressive, at least when dealing with imagry such as a open GL game. in all apple LCDs, including those on Ti and iBooks, a DVI interface is used, and thus each pixel is updated as soon as the GPU calculates if it needs to change, with respect to the latency of the pixels in the screen, which is in milliseconds. Apple LCD screens tend to be more latent in pixel updates than some other screens made by 3rd party companies such as formac. and THEN you get into 9 megapixel LCD screens which also use DVI, and do work with macs. just FYI, a 9 megapixel 22-inch viewable 4:3 LCD screen rivals a cheap printer in resolution.

I will also note that the p on DTV resolutions like 720p stands for progressive, meaning each line is refreshed in direct succession, instead of every other line in 1080i, resulting in a true picture every refresh cycle, instead of every two. also, there is a 1080p resolution, and some projectors made by companies such as Runco, support it. however, the amount of data pushing through transmission pipes for 1080p is quite large for steady 30 fps. it is possible with a DVI interface, but I'm doubtful present component video interfaces could maintian signal integrity, even at a bandwidth of 54-55 MHz. hope this helps.

One last tidbit of interest, I have a friend who works for the NSA, and one of the goodies he has seen is a three by five inch LCD screen with 2000 by 3000 resolution, and said that even with a high power magnifying glass, the pixels could not be made out.-Dibbs

[edited for cursed typos!]

pimentoLoaf
Nov 29, 2002, 04:48 PM
I think the word is "touted" rather than "tutted."

JSRockit
Nov 30, 2002, 09:07 AM
17" screen in a laptop...that is funny. Luckily, Apple knows that a laptop is supposed to be brought with you...so the 17" screen will not be in the future. Apple already did a great job by being the only computer manufactuer to make a 15" screen in a laptop under 5.5lbs. Due to the length being already at 13" plus, it would be stupid to go any bigger...especially in a wide-screen. If anything, I would love to see the screen shrink so it fits in a bag easier.

Ifeelbloated
Nov 30, 2002, 12:52 PM
I'd save your money and see when the OLED Powerbook will come along. That technology is here but it's got growing pains right now. I'm sure we'll see something soon though, and it will give LCD screens a run for it's money.

topicolo
Nov 30, 2002, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by Ifeelbloated
I'd save your money and see when the OLED Powerbook will come along. That technology is here but it's got growing pains right now. I'm sure we'll see something soon though, and it will give LCD screens a run for it's money.

considering the fact that they're having trouble making 4" screens for PDAs, the chances of them making 15.2" OLED screens within the next 2 years for powerbooks is remote.

jefhatfield
Dec 1, 2002, 10:25 AM
Originally posted by scem0
It would be waaaaaaaaaaay to heavy, and waaaaay to big. No
one would want to buy that and then lug it around. Not to mention,
it would be very expensive......

the sony 16" lcd on one of their laptop models i saw at circuit city is gorgeous and that size would be the biggest i would want to see an apple laptop

anything larger, unless they got it .75" inches or thinner, would be too heavy and be 8 pounds...too heavy by today's standards and not a good air travel companion

heck, my old PC laptop is 7 1/2 pounds and that is too heavy for air travel and all it has is a 12 inch lcd screen...so things have improved over the years in getting the weight down

the tibook is still the ultimate in screen size and lightness for laptops

rEd Eye
Dec 1, 2002, 02:51 PM
17" screen in a laptop......
Bring it on!!!!
I'll buy it!
No one thinks that there's a market for desktop replacement Mac's?
Seems to a thriving business in the PC industry.Not everyone cares about how much a portable weighs,or how long the battery lasts.What's important for some people is that you get a full featured machine that you can fold up and take somewhere else.I have a vision of a Full featured G4 portable that is built directly into a stylish briefcase,comes with a couple of PCI slots and an AGP slot,17-19" display,weighs in at 15- 20 lbs with battery that you are lucky to get a couple of hours of use from.Apple could also offer a large external battery for those who needed the extra remote power.Perfect for the field professional who needs only raw power,expandibility, and an easy way to tote it around.
I think the present Tibook is already a fairly decent "desktop replacement" with the exception of the 1280x1024 display,and the lack of upgrade options.I find 1600x1200 to be crucial for running screen real estate demanding apps.
As far as there being a market for big power hungry and cumbersome notebooks is concerned,these are being sold like hotcakes under numerous brand names,and they are my personal fovorite as far as PC portables are concerned.
And the pricing is more than fair!

http://pctorque.com/5620.php
http://pctorque.com/8880.php

If you even care,full specs can be found here:

http://www.powernotebooks.com/5660specs.php3
http://www.powernotebooks.com/8886specs.php3

Sepulchre
Dec 1, 2002, 04:22 PM
I'm currently reading this thread on a 16.1 inch Sony Vaio which someone here mentioned, its is large but the 1600 x 1200 display is great!

I love my TiBook, but would have to say IMHO the screen on the Viao is just slightly better.

JSRockit
Dec 1, 2002, 05:58 PM
Wow...I starting to feel like I am in the minority. I want a small powerful PC notebook...and I cannot find one. I am looking for a 12-13"screen P4 notebook at 5lbs with at least 1GB of Ram and a decent GPU. I hate these desktop replacements...they drive me nuts. They are just not good for use as a traditional laptop...and they are taking away from a decent small powerful laptop that could be made...well, that and heat issues.

jefhatfield
Dec 4, 2002, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by JSRockit
Wow...I starting to feel like I am in the minority. I want a small powerful PC notebook...and I cannot find one. I am looking for a 12-13"screen P4 notebook at 5lbs with at least 1GB of Ram and a decent GPU. I hate these desktop replacements...they drive me nuts. They are just not good for use as a traditional laptop...and they are taking away from a decent small powerful laptop that could be made...well, that and heat issues.

the really light notebooks, and with the best battery times...the major issue besides weight, are found in the PIIIm chips that go up to 1.2 ghz

look into them, it will save your back at the airport or on campus or work

one day, there may be a 3.5 lb. P4 laptop but i cannot think of one at the moment...sony, fujitsu, toshiba, and ibm are the best in this niche market

looking at everything overall, get the small pentium 3 laptop and you will be very happy...but they are pricey and can cost up to two or three times as much as a cheap, but heavy pentium 4 laptop from dell or gateway

JSRockit
Dec 4, 2002, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by jefhatfield


the really light notebooks, and with the best battery times...the major issue besides weight, are found in the PIIIm chips that go up to 1.2 ghz

look into them, it will save your back at the airport or on campus or work

one day, there may be a 3.5 lb. P4 laptop but i cannot think of one at the moment...sony, fujitsu, toshiba, and ibm are the best in this niche market

looking at everything overall, get the small pentium 3 laptop and you will be very happy...but they are pricey and can cost up to two or three times as much as a cheap, but heavy pentium 4 laptop from dell or gateway

I already have a PIII 1Ghz Sony, but I am looking for something a bit better. The current small P3 notebooks don't have decent video cards, can't take more than 512 MB of Ram, etc. I'm ready to move on to the next step. I am using it for Audio purposes and RAM is necessary. I don't mind paying extra. I'll most likely just get a TiBook and keep using the Sony until something better shows up.

Mr. Anderson
Dec 4, 2002, 04:17 PM
The Sony 16" VAIO is a pretty big laptop

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=RjY8utEEf_g8lOzqPZk2sZ4LWEDO9_ntN4Y=?CatalogCategoryID=&Dept=cpu&TemplateName=item%2fsy_item_b&ProductID=aAsKC0%2eNJacAAADxpsK61eQB&ContentItemPage=false&Boutique=

1.8"x14"x11.5" upto 8.4 pounds

the TiPB is

1"x 13.4" x 9.5" and 5.4 pounds

Now if they made the screen and the whole computer bigger by just one inch, 14.4 inches, the screen would be 16.4 inches diagonal. Seems doable to me.

D

vniow
Dec 4, 2002, 04:28 PM
Have you seen that Sony in person?
It's not a laptop at all, it's a 'desktop replacement'.
I saw one at Best Buy and it was huge! Much bigger than anything I'd want for a laptop.
The screen was great however and it had a lot of room for expandibility but something that big and thick and heavy I don't want to be carrying around anywhere, I might as well get a tower instead of that thing.

If they can put a 17" screen on the Tibook and keep the same 3:2 aspect ratio and keep it as thin as it is, then I could see a high end model with a 17" screen.

bluecell
Dec 4, 2002, 04:41 PM
I'd love a 16" widescreen display on my TiBook. This could actually happen.

jefhatfield
Dec 4, 2002, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by JSRockit


I already have a PIII 1Ghz Sony, but I am looking for something a bit better. The current small P3 notebooks don't have decent video cards, can't take more than 512 MB of Ram, etc. I'm ready to move on to the next step. I am using it for Audio purposes and RAM is necessary. I don't mind paying extra. I'll most likely just get a TiBook and keep using the Sony until something better shows up.

i see you have really done your homework

you really want more than half a gig of RAM on a laptop?

seriously?

the tibook is a tad bit heavy at 5.2/5.3 lbs. if a super light notebook/laptop is what you are looking for

but i don't think there's any 12" inch, sub-4 lb., pentium 4, 1+ GB RAM laptops out there now...but in six months there definitely will be

if you find anything, let me know....PM me

i am also into really into thin, light, but powerful laptops

it's the best of both worlds...kick butt desktop power and lighter than the average laptop portability:p

JSRockit
Dec 4, 2002, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by jefhatfield


i see you have really done your homework

you really want more than half a gig of RAM on a laptop?

seriously?

the tibook is a tad bit heavy at 5.2/5.3 lbs. if a super light notebook/laptop is what you are looking for

but i don't think there's any 12" inch, sub-4 lb., pentium 4, 1+ GB RAM laptops out there now...but in six months there definitely will be

if you find anything, let me know....PM me

i am also into really into thin, light, but powerful laptops

it's the best of both worlds...kick butt desktop power and lighter than the average laptop portability:p

Rarely do I really need more than 512MB now, but there was I time when I thought I'd never need more than 256Mb. It is all about thinking ahead. If I'm gonna spend the loot...I want it to be able to handle anything in the future that might come out program wise.

I'd be extremely happy with a laptop like the Fujitsu S series with a P4 Processor and at least 768 max ram and at least 32MB VRAM. Very beautiful laptop.

The TiBook may not be the lightest, but it is by far the lightest with a 15.2" screen. I have always loved this laptop. I have the forementioned Sony and an iBook. I will keep the iBook for internet purposes... and add a TiBook and the elusive P4 small notebook for audio purposes when it majically appears...I'm hoping by tax season.

I'd like to see a 13-14" widescreen TiBook... that would rule.

adamcoop
Dec 4, 2002, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by redAPPLE


anybody heard about ETA?

it's this terror group or sumthin', right?
I thought it was a brand of peanut butter.

Steradian
Dec 4, 2002, 08:27 PM
I like my screen just the way it is, if it was bigger and sucked the same amount of juice, that would be fine by me.


PowerBook G4 1ghz

gopher
Dec 4, 2002, 09:45 PM
How you ask? OLED! The technology behind some cell phones today actually is foldable. Organic Light Emitting Diodes.

http://www.cuttingtheedge.com/qtakes/2001/foldable_lcd/foldable.shtm

matznentosh
Dec 5, 2002, 05:37 AM
Originally posted by JSRockit
Wow...I starting to feel like I am in the minority. I want a small powerful PC notebook...and I cannot find one. I am looking for a 12-13"screen P4 notebook at 5lbs with at least 1GB of Ram and a decent GPU. I hate these desktop replacements...they drive me nuts. They are just not good for use as a traditional laptop...and they are taking away from a decent small powerful laptop that could be made...well, that and heat issues.

Huh? You just described an iBook.

matznentosh
Dec 5, 2002, 05:43 AM
Originally posted by rEd Eye
I have a vision of a Full featured G4 portable that is built directly into a stylish briefcase,comes with a couple of PCI slots and an AGP slot,17-19" display,weighs in at 15- 20 lbs with battery that you are lucky to get a couple of hours of use from.

That was the Osborne (sp? so long ago I forget how to spell it), one of the first portable computers. It was built like a LARGE aluminum briefcase, maybe 10 - 12 inches thick, and the front swiveled up to show a little oblong screen like an antique TV. I think portables shrank because smaller was better. I had the first Apple portable. What a tank. You could drop it on the floor with no risk. Heavy is an understatement.

JSRockit
Dec 5, 2002, 08:00 PM
Originally posted by matznentosh


Huh? You just described an iBook.

Yep...I own one already...that is what makes me want my PC notebook to be as good.

Mal
Dec 9, 2002, 05:22 PM
Just another proof of the possibility of this rumor. A guy came into the store where I work (an Apple Authorized Service Center) and told us that his brother had a prototype 17" PowerBook with a 1.5GHz G4 in it. When I mentioned that to our specialist, he just said that he was under a no-disclosure agreement with Apple, and couldn't talk about it. The only thing he asked me about what the guy said is whether he had said G4 or another type of chip, which I don't remember if he did or not. So either the whole conversation was a load of bull, or Apple has a better G4 or a better chip coming soon. BTW, the guy said that it was supposed to come out in the next few months, which fits the time frame that everyone has said.

JW

gopher
Dec 9, 2002, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by skywalker
Just another proof of the possibility of this rumor. A guy came into the store where I work (an Apple Authorized Service Center) and told us that his brother had a prototype 17" PowerBook with a 1.5GHz G4 in it. When I mentioned that to our specialist, he just said that he was under a no-disclosure agreement with Apple, and couldn't talk about it. The only thing he asked me about what the guy said is whether he had said G4 or another type of chip, which I don't remember if he did or not. So either the whole conversation was a load of bull, or Apple has a better G4 or a better chip coming soon. BTW, the guy said that it was supposed to come out in the next few months, which fits the time frame that everyone has said.

JW

The Powerbooks were updated just in November!

They wouldn't make an update at least till May.
The Powerbooks that are out today are wonderful. I just saw someone at Starbucks who got a recent Powerbook and it came with an extra plastic sheet to protect the screen.
:cool:

whocares
Dec 9, 2002, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by redAPPLE


anybody heard about ETA?

it's this terror group or sumthin', right?

The ETA is the Basque separatist movement, the "Pays Basque" being a smallish region divided between France and Spain.
There're indeed considered as a terror group 'cause of bombings & assassination.

There's for the politics. Here ETA just means "Estimated Time of Arrival" :D :D :D

shadowfax
Dec 9, 2002, 05:54 PM
having had my G4 1 GHz powerbook for a few weeks now, i have to say that anything much bigger would just be outrageously inordinate. 15.2 inches is more than enough; 16 with a 16:9 ratio screen might be acceptably large, but the 15.2 leaves no room for complaints. 1280 854 could be upped too, but not by much. and why? i find it a perfectly good resolution, and i ran my 17 inch trinitron at 1280 x 1024, so i am used to high res on small screens.

a 17 inch laptop though, jeez. i can't imagine that would fit into much of anything case-wise. you'd look so asinine in airports. people would be like. wow, that's like an oversized coffee table book. can you take it carryon or do you have to check it?

JSRockit
Dec 9, 2002, 06:01 PM
I guess it would be like Sonys 16" Notebook. Not something you bring with you on the airplane, but something that can be moved around easy. I'm not a big fan of the desktop replacement, but would love to see what an Apple desktop replacement would look like.

jettredmont
Dec 9, 2002, 06:02 PM
Originally posted by AssassinOfGates
17"??? That seems a little big to fit in a case or even in an airline seat. I highly doubt it.

Hmmm. Well, considering other notebook co's are using 16" on the highest/largest end, and a 17" widescreen would be shorter than a 16" UMSXGA (Ultra-Mega Super XGA, or whatever they're calling it these days :) ), I don't think that a 17" on a laptop would be too big for an airline seat. Seems my 15" laptop screen has a few inches of "growing" room on either side, and a 17" wide-screen would work fine.

Of course, a 17" 4:3 aspect ratio screen would be a bit large in one's lap ...

JSRockit
Dec 9, 2002, 07:07 PM
If Apple made a 17" screen in a PowerBook, it would not be meant for use as a traditional laptop: flights, throwing in the breifcase or backpack etc. It would be made to be mostly left at home...moved around when necessary...moved around the office. etc.

zimv20
Dec 9, 2002, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by adamcoop

How cool is Plastina Mosh?

"I'm a monster truck!"

DHagan4755
Jan 12, 2003, 11:11 AM
Interesting to look back at what we thought of the idea when we didn't know it would actually come to fruition.