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Durandal7
Dec 12, 2002, 06:34 PM
I figure this would be a good topic seeing as how MWSF is less then a month away.
Here are my personal guesses:

iMac G4 800/933mhz
No standard wide-screen

eMac Updates

A new iApp or major update to an existing one

No new Powermacs
No new digital lifestyle devices
No Bluetooth

MacAztec
Dec 12, 2002, 06:56 PM
I don't really think apple would be doing THAT little at MWSF. It is one of their biggest conventions.

I mean, an update to the imac/emac and an iApp? Thats pathetic.

I agree with the update to the imac/emac, but their will be new powermacs IMO.

Durandal7
Dec 12, 2002, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by MacAztec
I don't really think apple would be doing THAT little at MWSF. It is one of their biggest conventions.

I mean, an update to the imac/emac and an iApp? Thats pathetic.

I agree with the update to the imac/emac, but their will be new powermacs IMO.
They are moving away from major conventions. MWNY was a bit of a bust. I really don't think there will be a Powermac update until March but I hope I'm mistaken.

MacAztec
Dec 12, 2002, 07:08 PM
Why would they move away from conventions? Dont they like to suprise people? Thats why I (we) go to conventions.

I am going to MWSF, and I am going to be at the doors on the very first day. I will have no clue of what to expect. Hell, I love the feeling when you go in and people rush to see whats new :)

AssassinOfGates
Dec 12, 2002, 07:28 PM
Speed bumped eMac
Speed bumped iMac
NO new powermac
Preview of XRaid
More rendevous support (iTunes?)
iMovie update
iDVD update (hopefully, as the current one lacks too many features)
Possible new Digital Lifestyle Devcie, if not, then more hints towards one
Roadmap of Apple's future technologies / goals, hopefully discussion on Motorola, inspired by the latest Mac World magazine


All this is on a goood hope. :)

RBMaraman
Dec 12, 2002, 08:29 PM
1. eMac update
2. iMac update (possible ghz?)
3. iPod update (color screen? software update?)
4. NO new PowerMacs
5. NO bluetooth
6. New digital lifestyle device
7. iApp updates (gm iSync? iTunes rendezvous? iMovie update? iDVD update? iPhoto update?)
8. Sneak preview of panther?

Just my 2 cents...I really hope for an iPod update. I wanted one for Christmas, but I told myself to wait until they get updated. After all, I've already waited this long, what's a little more time?

Macmaniac
Dec 12, 2002, 08:42 PM
My predictions would be 1ghz iMacs, maybe with a few new ports.
Also maybe a faster eMac.
I think firewire2 will mkae its debut on the powermacs, but no other changes then that.
The iPod can't get a larger HD since the current line of HD for iPods is not any bigger.

I am Praying for iMovie 3!!!!

ShaolinMiddleFinger
Dec 12, 2002, 08:51 PM
Why are there so many of you assuming that there won't be any new Powermacs? Don't they always upgrade powermacs at MWSF?:confused:

MacAztec
Dec 12, 2002, 08:54 PM
They didnt last year, but they were upraded like 1-2 months later I believe.

Mr. Anderson
Dec 12, 2002, 09:00 PM
Maybe we'll get the new monitor 19" wide screen? I can hope. I'm a little worried about this one though. I hope Steve pulls something out of the hat or places farther south and comes up with something good. ;)

And, I think we might have something fun to look forward to - another Will Ferrell switch ad! :D That would be very cool.

D

daveg5
Dec 12, 2002, 09:06 PM
its has been a year and nothing has happen to the imac cpu
I will go out on the limb and predict
elimnatin of 15 incher
Imac 1GHZ 1MB L2 cache 17'' 256MB 60GB firewire2 usb2 bluetooth dvd/cdrw $1399
Imac 1GHZ 1MB L2 cache 17'' 256MB 80GB firewire2 usb2 bluetooth Superdrive $1599
Imac 1.25GHZ 2MB L2 cache 17'' 512MB 120GB firewire2 usb2 bluetooth Superdrive $1899
no nineteen inchers
color ipod 40GB with mpeg video out and wireless remote $599
no more 5GB
$50 price cut on 10 and 20GB models.
Powermac usual slight speed update duals 1.0, 1.25, 1.5 with 512kL2cache new update motherboard that takes full advantage of ddr, bluetooth Fw2, Usb2, same case, quieter, 80,120,180Gb 256, 512, 1GB memory and one more thing Price cuts of $200 dollars across the board. and One more thing
A top line fully equipped Quad processor G4 tower 4-1.25 2 GB, 2X180GB, of a possible 4 on the new motherboard. for $3999 for video and audio and graphics pros. OSX only bootable on this model.

joed
Dec 12, 2002, 09:39 PM
I reckon the following:

1. XServe update and XServe RAID with Firewire 2 (or possibly soon after MWSF)
2. iMac/eMac update
3. Software updates (Appleworks/iMovie etc)
4. New range of Monitors
5. Hoping for new digital lifestyle device

I doubt there'll be Powermacs (too soon since last updated) or iPods for the same reason.


James.

daveg5
Dec 12, 2002, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by Durandal7
I figure this would be a good topic seeing as how MWSF is less then a month away.
Here are my personal guesses:

iMac G4 800/933mhz
No standard wide-screen

eMac Updates

A new iApp or major update to an existing one

No new Powermacs
No new digital lifestyle devices
No Bluetooth
you definately are setting yourself up for no disapointment.
I f thats it everybody should stay home.

Durandal7
Dec 12, 2002, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by daveg5

you definately are setting yourself up for no disapointment.
I f thats it everybody should stay home.
Hey, as long as the iMac gets updated I'm happy. :)

daveg5
Dec 12, 2002, 10:34 PM
well thats cool, you wont be disapointed 1 year is forever even by apples standard for no upgrades other then the 17 and video card on the 17".
I hope we get more then 100-133MHZ speed after all that time.

Over Achiever
Dec 12, 2002, 10:38 PM
Apple may be staying away from updating their products at conventions, but not necessarily consumer products.

Expect an iMac and/or and eMac update.
Expect the new 19" screen.
Expect an update/announcement of an iApp.

Possible announcement of integration of bluetooth into portables.
Possible talk about OS9 and its future (ending in June)

Doubtful: updates to the PowerMacs, portables.

Highly Likely: A big announcement of a cool new product. :)

bentmywookie
Dec 12, 2002, 10:55 PM
I'm going to guess that bluetooth will be added to all lines - at least the portables.

They put out the new powerbooks and ibooks for the holiday shopping season, and I'm guessing they didn't have enough time to get bluetooth in there but at MWSF they will throw that in.

SmileyDude
Dec 12, 2002, 10:55 PM
As long as a new version of iTunes comes out that is Rendezvous enabled, I don't care if they don't introduce another thing. I'm tired of having to manually sync up my library that sits on the 80gig drive in the iMac with the iBook that sits close to the stereo. I want to be able to just play the music without having to mess around with stuff.

I really hope that they make it so that your music is shared even when iTunes isn't running.

Plus, iTunes needs some enhancements/bug fixes -- having 8000 songs in my library really slows down iTunes quite a bit when adding/removing songs. Also, ID3 tag support is a bit lacking -- I have a number of songs that are tagged properlly in iTunes, but the tags themselves aren't in the file. It appears to be keeping them in a separate file (which is probally where some of the slowdown occurs).

Also, having an ID3v2 tag doesn't mean that I don't want a v1 tag -- I have a car MP3 player that can only read v1 tags. I would like iTunes to keep the v1 and v2 tags synced, so that devices that can only use v1 tags show up properlly.

Also, is it too much to ask that iTunes doesn't use 15% of the CPU while playing in the backgroung on my 366mhz iBook? There needs to be some more optimization done there -- heck, even on the dual 1ghz G4 at CompUSA, iTunes was still taking a noticable amount of CPU time while playing. On that machine, it shouldn't even be getting 1%...

arn
Dec 12, 2002, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by ShaolinMiddleFinger
Why are there so many of you assuming that there won't be any new Powermacs? Don't they always upgrade powermacs at MWSF?:confused:

The last time the PowerMac was updated AT a MacWorld was July 2001.

arn

onethreeseven
Dec 13, 2002, 01:19 PM
The apple UK store is running a 0% interest deal for 6 months on new macs, the offer ends on the 6th of january. Isn't that the date for the keynote?
This isn't exactly a revelation but it probably equates to product line and price changes.

any thoughts?

also should I wait until after the keynote to buy my powerbook? bluetooth would be nice....

Megaquad
Dec 13, 2002, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by arn


The last time the PowerMac was updated AT a MacWorld was July 2001.

arn
exactly, and earliest you might expect new powermacs would be.... april

BenderBot1138
Dec 13, 2002, 02:02 PM
Great predictions... I'm not so good at this, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say MWSF won't be held in New York this year.

:cool:

pianojoe
Dec 13, 2002, 02:05 PM
- Minor iMac speed bump, none for eMac, iBook and Powerbook.
- Bluetooth all across the line save eMac.

The pro line:

1) Fast: Powermac G4 Dual 1GHz, available.
2) Faster: Powermac 970 1.6GHz, available Feb.
3) Fastest: Powermac 970 1.8GHz, available March.
4) Ultimate: Powermac 970 Dual 1.6GHz, available March.

The second model will gently outperform the first.

pgwalsh
Dec 13, 2002, 02:24 PM
1) New iBook
2) Upgraded eMac
3) Uprgraded iMac
4) New PowerBook
5) New PowerMac
6) Upgraded XServe
7) XRaid - Available
8) New Secret Weapon
9) SJ will have a beard

Megaquad
Dec 13, 2002, 02:43 PM
-iTunes 4 yipeeeeeeeeeeee
-iMac 1 GHz, now all models with GeForce 4 MX,
no more 15", eMac takes over low end, maybe new 19" screen but I dont see how would that work
-eMac at 1GHz
-steve is very excited that jaguar has been adopted by xx percent of mac users
-they think we will be happy to hear that apple has 5.5% market share compared to 5.1% year ago, counting those who switched from mac pc
-more boooorriingg quicktime 6 demos
-more demos of fascinating adress book features
-more schillermania

daveg5
Dec 13, 2002, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by arn


The last time the PowerMac was updated AT a MacWorld was July 2001.

arn
Mid August 2002 would be more like, mid march would be 6 months

daveg5
Dec 13, 2002, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by pianojoe
- Minor iMac speed bump, none for eMac, iBook and Powerbook.
- Bluetooth all across the line save eMac.

The pro line:

1) Fast: Powermac G4 Dual 1GHz, available.
2) Faster: Powermac 970 1.6GHz, available Feb.
3) Fastest: Powermac 970 1.8GHz, available March.
4) Ultimate: Powermac 970 Dual 1.6GHz, available March.

The second model will gently outperform the first.
This would be remarkable since IBM is on record as of saying not available until Late 2003 for the 970.
But they have lied before. i take number 2. please!

This is what they need to be compatative with the faster 3.06 P4 and AMD athlons, should run quieter and cooler too.
But with out a new motherboard and case design I dont see it happening but pray that I am wrong.

nuksu
Dec 14, 2002, 04:22 PM
iCube

Ice-Cube (white, no fan)

Apple][Forever
Dec 16, 2002, 10:19 AM
I predict a black turtleneck and jeans.







Oh, and an iMac speed bump and elimination of the 15" LCD model.

$100 price cuts on PowerMacs.

iMovie, iTunes, iSync updates.

No Bluetooth, portables were just updated and I believe Apple is barely making the $999 price point on iBook.

No 970s, too early.

No new devices or updates to the iPod.

Clarification of OS 9 plans (Officially Dead as of end of 2003 would be my guess.)

D*I*S_Frontman
Dec 16, 2002, 11:02 AM
Wishful thinking...

1. 15" iMac gone
2. eMac 1 ghz/A05 Superdrive $1499, 1 ghz/combo $1199, low end 800mhz/combo drive $899
3. finally drop iMac G3s--eMac takes its place as lowball system
4. 17" and 19" 16:10 displays, price reductions throughout the display line, NO MORE 4:3 LCD DISPLAYS (only "all-in-one" CRTs 4:3)
5. iApp updates
6. MAJOR IBM 970 ANNOUNCEMENT: Preorders of new high-end XServes and PowerMacs available for systems shipping in June 2003 (preorder pricing $100-200 off list price)
--much faster bus speeds
--fully implemented DDR RAM
--single, dual 1.8ghz IBM 970s addressing 2/4GB RAM
--Bluetooth/Airport built in wireless
--Firewire2
--OS X native plug'n'play clustering via Gigabit Ethernet to work with any multithreaded application, similar to OS X's software RAID, with a few more customizable features
7. Speedbump G4 PMs to 1, 1.25 and 1.5 dualies at current pricing schemes until 970 machines ship in June

Akira
Dec 16, 2002, 11:28 AM
- new LCD-iMac & eMac running at higher clockrates
- iPod pricecut or maybe a new one (not with a bigger HD though, you can't get more than 20 Gigs in a 1.8" HD)
- Xserve RAID demo
- Bluetooth-enabled portables
- iApps update
- some big suprise

and to everybody who says they want to see PPC970's, IBM hasn't even begun producing samples fo the new processor!

will
Dec 17, 2002, 10:48 AM
My Predictions

I think Steve will want to concentrate on the new iMacs, displays, and as usual OSX (with phase out of OS9 and all).

We will see:

A 1 Ghz iMac, the iMac range definitely needs more juice and a lower entry point. I think we might see a $999 low end 15" model, with 17" at mid and high range. The Geoforce 4 will also be rolled out across the range apart from on the 15" model. With a new iMac available at $999 the old G3 iMac will finally die a death.
Updated LCD displays: price cuts plus new 19" model at $999.
5Gb iPod dropped, price cut on 10Gb and 20Gb (the margins on iPods are high and Apple have room to cut prices to boost sales).
More on Rendezvous and iSync
Updates to some iApps (iMovie, works?)
Clarification on OS9 plus offer to tempt luddites (risks flame)


What we might see:

Possible tweaks to Power Macs and small price cut, but no faster CPUs (that will come in March)
Possible update of XServe and more on XRaid
Firewire2 news/launch


We won't see:

PPC970 or hear anything about it (any announcement would kill G4 sales)
Updates to Powerbooks or iBooks, they've only just been updated and price reduced. The iBook is now at $999 which is very competitive.
Colour iPods
Apple cameras/phones/breadmakers or any hardware with entrenched encombants.
A major new lifestyle product (That will have its own special event in the spring)
Steve and Quark on stage together
Steve in a white turtleneck (despite attempts by marketing to get him to match the colour scheme of Apple's hardware)

primalman
Dec 17, 2002, 11:57 AM
MWSF
iMac 15"/800mhz/combo/133fsb/GF4 $1099
iMac 17"/933/combo/133fsb/GF4 $1399
iMac 17"/1ghz/superdrive/133fsb/GF4 $1699

eMac 800/cd [edu only] $749
eMac 800/combo $999
eMac 933/combo or superdrive $1199/$1399

Monitors - updated form factor with VESA adaptability/ADC and DVI
17" LCD 1152x870 $499
17" LCD Cinema 1440x900 $799
19-20" LCD Cinema 1600x1024 $1599
23" HD Cinema 2048x1280 $2999

Possible dual head monitor with 2-17" 1152x870 or 2-17" Cinema 1440x900 displays and single cable to connect both video lines to the normal dual head card, USB and power.

A VESA monitor mounting arm for wall or desk ala iMac arm to enhance desktop monitor offering $249

iTune 4 rendevouz/mp4

iMovie 3

iDVD enhancments

iPod drop 5gb, $50 drop on 10 and 20gb

xRAID introduced/to ship by March/Firewire2/SCSI/FiberChannel support $??? [at least $3000 for empty/$6000 for 600gb usable at RAID5]

More "Power of X," "wow stuff" and "ShillerMania"

Classic iMac outa here

Possible Processor Fourum to hint at 970 WORKSTATIONS - they will not replace PMG4 right away

February
PowerMac G4 Dual 1 ghz/combo/167fsb/ata-100/agp4x $1499
PowerMac G4 Dual 1.2ghz/combo/200fsb/FW2/ata-133/agp8x/fullDDR $1999 [or superdrive $2299]
PowerMac G4 Dual 1.4ghz/superdrive/200fsb/FW2/ata-133/agp8x/fullDDR $2699

xServe G4 1.25ghz/dual 1.25ghz/167mhz fsb/support for ata-133 large drives/Firewire2 2 channels on board $2999/$3999

March-April
Possible slight PowerBook and iBook bumps [10-15% speed bumps, 2x superdrive, iBook to G4?]

I would suspect that a PPC970 Workstation [xMac/SuperMac] tech preview or actual introduction either in May/June 03 at Apple or at MWNY.

We'll see eh?

Primalman

Megaquad
Dec 17, 2002, 03:30 PM
somehow i dont think we will see any powerbook updates until MWNY
should i wait until may for powerbook?

Durandal7
Dec 17, 2002, 06:09 PM
My 2003 projections:
Macworld/January 2003
Bumped iMacs/eMacs
Maybe a new iApp
Long ranting about Jaguar and the future
Price drops on iPod
Axing of iMac G3
Febuary
Minor 10.2.x update
March
New Powermacs, same case, topping out at 1.4 Ghz
April
New digital device
May
Not much
June
Not much
Macworld/July
New iApp
New iBooks
New iPods
August
10.3 beta pops up on web
September
New Powerbook G4s
October
10.3 officially released
November
Price drops on various product lines
December
New Powermacs, equipped with 970 topping out at 1.8 Ghz

cr2sh
Dec 17, 2002, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by daveg5
its has been a year and nothing has happen to the imac cpu
I will go out on the limb and predict
elimnatin of 15 incher
Imac 1GHZ 1MB L2 cache 17'' 256MB 60GB firewire2 usb2 bluetooth dvd/cdrw $1399
Imac 1GHZ 1MB L2 cache 17'' 256MB 80GB firewire2 usb2 bluetooth Superdrive $1599
Imac 1.25GHZ 2MB L2 cache 17'' 512MB 120GB firewire2 usb2 bluetooth Superdrive $1899
no nineteen inchers
color ipod 40GB with mpeg video out and wireless remote $599
no more 5GB
$50 price cut on 10 and 20GB models.
Powermac usual slight speed update duals 1.0, 1.25, 1.5 with 512kL2cache new update motherboard that takes full advantage of ddr, bluetooth Fw2, Usb2, same case, quieter, 80,120,180Gb 256, 512, 1GB memory and one more thing Price cuts of $200 dollars across the board. and One more thing
A top line fully equipped Quad processor G4 tower 4-1.25 2 GB, 2X180GB, of a possible 4 on the new motherboard. for $3999 for video and audio and graphics pros. OSX only bootable on this model.

Holy Christ Dave.... that's a long keynote!
$4k for a quad g4... I'll take two!

1.00GHz (133fsb) eMacs and iMacs followed by the 970 announcement. Is it too much to expect... yeh, but if it's worth doing, its worth doing right. :D

Most importantly, and not too radically - I expect to see LogicX.

cr2sh
Dec 17, 2002, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by Megaquad
should i wait until may for powerbook?

In a word.. "no." Place an order tonight, you'll wake up in the morning smiling. :)

synthetickittie
Dec 17, 2002, 07:59 PM
Ive had the pc Im using right now for 3-4 years now and have wanted a mac for about a year now but never had any money for new computer with having to save up money for college with my family and now Im a senior and accually little old me got a full schollarship and Im definitly gonna be getting a mac soon and I defiitly am gonna at least wait for next month to see if any new powermacs get updated but do you think if they arent that I should wait a few more months for a new processor? Ive put up this PC for 4 years now I think I can last a few month month for something a lot better but of course would rather get whats out now if its not gonna be all that much better to wait more time for

cr2sh
Dec 17, 2002, 08:41 PM
Originally posted by synthetickittie
Ive had the pc Im using right now for 3-4 years now and have wanted a mac for about a year now but never had any money for new computer with having to save up money for college with my family and now Im a senior and accually little old me got a full schollarship and Im definitly gonna be getting a mac soon and I defiitly am gonna at least wait for next month to see if any new powermacs get updated but do you think if they arent that I should wait a few more months for a new processor? Ive put up this PC for 4 years now I think I can last a few month month for something a lot better but of course would rather get whats out now if its not gonna be all that much better to wait more time for

First thing you should do when you get to college is enroll in an english course. ;)

synthetickittie
Dec 17, 2002, 08:46 PM
ya maths kinda my thing... who lose spell check? ME!!

cr2sh
Dec 17, 2002, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by synthetickittie
ya maths kinda my thing... who lose spell check? ME!!
You are a credit to our American education system. I would have guessed football was your 'thing' but alas... welcome to the boards! What college are you planning on attending?

synthetickittie
Dec 17, 2002, 09:05 PM
math and hockey accually and of course web design... and its BU that Im going to

Postal
Dec 18, 2002, 08:40 PM
My predictions are simple:

iMac:

- bump up to 867 MHz and 1 GHz models
- possibly 256 MB of RAM minimum
- faster Superdrive
- bigger hard drives
- maybe Firewire 2 and USB 2
- GeForce 4 MX video

eMac:

- maybe nothing at MWSF, but an update would bring it to the same speeds as the iMac (they could use a slower system bus to justify the cost difference)

PowerMac:

- likely nothing at the show, but a few weeks afterwards we see a bump to dual 1.5 GHz systems
- the most likely place to see Firewire 2 and USB 2 introduced

iPod:

- if the 5 GB model is kept, its price dips to $199
- either the introduction of a 30 (or even 40!) GB model, or a 20 GB colour model
- Firewire 2?

Software:

- iSync 1.0 is released
- either iPhoto 2 or iMovie 3 (or both)
- possible iTunes update for Rendezvous
- AppleWorks 7


That's about it, as far as I can figure... will there be a revolutionary new piece of hardware or software? I don't doubt it, but the surprise will be what that piece is!

bennyek
Dec 19, 2002, 11:00 AM
Does anyone agree with me that they need to introduce a new mouse/keyboard with bluetooth? They have hyped Bluetooth for months ad all we can do is sync a few expensive palms and cells. THat would be the most practical update to the common mac user, no more crappy wires everywhere. As for hardware, who knows I will leave those guesses up to you guys, I want FCP 4 and iphoto 2
A new exciting product would make a nice bday present for me on the 7th:o

pgwalsh
Dec 19, 2002, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by bennyek
Does anyone agree with me that they need to introduce a new mouse/keyboard with bluetooth? They have hyped Bluetooth for months ad all we can do is sync a few expensive palms and cells. THat would be the most practical update to the common mac user, no more crappy wires everywhere. As for hardware, who knows I will leave those guesses up to you guys, I want FCP 4 and iphoto 2
A new exciting product would make a nice bday present for me on the 7th:o I agree with you. I don't know about other powermac users, but I for one would like to see a multi-button mouse for the powermac. I've never used the single button mouse, it doesn't cut it for me. A bluetooth optical multi-button mouse seems like a great idea.

I'd love to see a bluetooth keyboard, but with added features. My logitech keyboard has a mail, www, and search button. Add some of these to the keyboard. Maybe add a dock scrolling button where it'll go over all the apps in the doc without a mouse.

scem0
Dec 20, 2002, 12:30 AM
Im hoping for a wireless bluetooth mouse and keyboard to go along
with the bluetooth on the powermacs (and other computers hopefully).

Oh, and I forgot to mention that that mouse better have 2 buttons
and a scroll wheel. ;)

springscansing
Dec 20, 2002, 01:03 AM
Definitely speed bumped iMacs and mostly likely eMacs too. Death to the G3 iMac.

Hmm...

The usual Jaguar stuff.

Something HAS to be said about the powermacs. Proally show em off, maybe cost cuts, not much else. *shrug*

eMagic talk. Audiounits. Rendervouuuzuzuzu.... all the new stuff. Software bonanza, complete with iApp updates, don't know abotu any new ones though.

And... come on... no 970 news. :-) 95% chance anyway.

Um... no 2 button mouse!

Bluetooth bonanza as well.

basically.. software bonanza!! What else can they really do short of saying OMGOMG LEIK WTF 970 @ uR DOOR!!!

Ya know?

springscansing
Dec 20, 2002, 01:09 AM
It's been a long time since we got a real SHOCKER though. Might be time for one... if so, what would it be?

OS 10.3 preview? Nah.. not a HUGE shock.. although iChat with tabbed windows might make it -useful-.

Hm.. not the 970.. it can't be..

New iPod? Colour screen? Nah, I don't really see it. Maybe though.

Appleworks 7 that kicks Office's ass? Possibly.

Apple browser? Actually, this isn't that crazy of a thing to predict. They have a mail thing... If they release a killer Appleworks (maybe a new name.. iWorks.. I donno), and a killer browser, they could cut out virtually all MS software that comes with the computer. Whee!! That would be shocking.

Yeah.... 30% chance there will be a browser/appleworks shocker. iApp mania I tell you!

Too bad nothing -I- want, heh. Maybe Logic 6? *grin* Preview? Pahlease? Nah..

cr2sh
Dec 20, 2002, 01:46 AM
Okay, let's try to compile a top 10 list of possible (semi-realistic) Shockers for MWSF:


1. 970 announcement
2. Quad g4
3. OSX x86 release
4. iPhone
5. Bluetooth/Gigawire PowerMacs with speed bump
6. ColorScreen iPod with size bump
7.
8.
9.
10.

Give me some help on this one... the big shocks are easy, how about more subtle shockers?

Megaquad
Dec 20, 2002, 03:09 AM
If Apple introduces 933 MHz iMac/eMac I'll go kill myself.

cr2sh
Dec 20, 2002, 04:44 AM
Aren't the current E/I's based off the 100MHz fsb? I'd be pissed if we get that crappy of a showing, boosting the existing line by a few megahertz... **** that.

On a side note, winter break is doing wonders for my post count this is #200.

sedarby
Dec 20, 2002, 07:58 AM
Ever since Apple took on Emagic there have been persistent rumors that a logical (no pun intended) iApp would be a stripped down version of Logic Audio. Maybe something like MicroLogic AV or even Logic Audio Silver.

imaginereno
Dec 20, 2002, 12:39 PM
Based on concerns enumerated in the 10-k filling, I would look for MAJOR speed bumps.

Whether that means a platform switch to x86, I wouldn't venture to guess. But, definitely MUCH FASTER CPU's!!!!

Just my simple minded analysis.....

bluecell
Dec 20, 2002, 01:06 PM
My guess is that Steve Jobs will make an "earth-shattering" announcement. I'm not making any other predictions at this point. It will probably be positive.

jettredmont
Dec 20, 2002, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by MacAztec
Why would they move away from conventions? Dont they like to suprise people? Thats why I (we) go to conventions.

I am going to MWSF, and I am going to be at the doors on the very first day. I will have no clue of what to expect. Hell, I love the feeling when you go in and people rush to see whats new :)

Yes, Apple likes to surprise people. When Apple surprises people they are able to sell their old models right up until the day new models are announced. This desire to surprise their customers with updates is why Apple is reportedly moving away from convention keynote announcements and onto a convention-independant announcement schedule.

And, yes, while the Wintel world lives by (often broken*) promises and detailed roadmaps, it does so because there really is no reason to sell anyone on buying something today when you know they'll be buying it anyways tomorrow, and the constant state of advancement in technology guarantees that waiting a day or two days you'll still be in the same boat as had you bought today. Apple, however, is a single company with a single product range, so advancements are not constant, and it can not absorb the ups and downs of demand as easily as Wintel. Thus, Apple lives by the surprise, and keeps their finances flowing at a fairly constant rate if and only if those surprises succeed. This is, of course, why Apple has taken to suing and prosecuting those who let the cat out of the bag early: it has a real and significant impact on their bottom line when the "surprise" element is taken away.

Currently, Apple sales slow to a halt around convention time as "everyone knows" that there are going to be cool new things coming out and that prices on existing hardware will likely go down or new features will be added. "Everybody knows" that it is a bad idea to purchase a new Mac on January 6th because it will be obsolete January 7th.

Apple likes to surprise its customers. Thus, it is moving towards releasing products between conventions and merely describing/sales-pitching the products at the conventions themselves.

A surprise isn't a surprise if everyone knows when it will be, what it will be, and where it will be.


* Interesting fact. Only one company in the PPC/WinTel world has a corporate directive that says that any promise it makes to a customer must be met, no matter what the cost. Any guess who? That's right: IBM. It's Second Directive, issued by Watson himself in the 1950s, and still followed. I don't think Motorola is quite so idealistic. It is, however, sad that such a commitment to integrity means little against the price-gouging and vaporware tactics of the rest of the industry ...

jettredmont
Dec 20, 2002, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by scem0
Im hoping for a wireless bluetooth mouse and keyboard to go along
with the bluetooth on the powermacs (and other computers hopefully).

Oh, and I forgot to mention that that mouse better have 2 buttons
and a scroll wheel. ;)

Given that Apple's never going to satisfy your mousing needs, why are you hoping for them to waste money on a fancy mouse that you'll replace with an even fancier mouse before even using it?

Of course, the optical mice weren't cheap when Apple began including them on PowerMacs either, so maybe Apple will waste money on the first thing most power users will replace when they get the box home ...

IMHO, if Apple includes Bluetooth and announces that existing BlueTooth mice will work with it (and perhaps offer a "wireless" mouse as a build-to-order option), most of our BT-in-your-mice fanatics should be leaping for joy.

Still, I don't see the advantage to BT in a mouse, but that's just me. Maybe that's why I don't feel the need to pay for such a mouse on my next desktop ...

backdraft
Dec 20, 2002, 04:32 PM
New iPod with color lcd (supports iTunes Visualizations?)
New digital Hub device (camera, iPhone, iNote PDA?)
1ghz iMac with 120gb hard drive and faster Superdrive (4x - 6x DVD write?)
New Apple Web Browser
iChat update that supports video conferencing, Web Cam, exchange of files (support for msn, icq, yahoo, etc... ?)
New Pro Software (dealing with recent aquisitions?)
XServe with PPC 970
PowerMac speed bumps after MWSF '03 (Dual line up 1.25ghz, 1.4ghz, 1.6ghz) with faster Superdrive

Mac OS X Enhancements? (see link below :D)

xelterran
Dec 20, 2002, 05:37 PM
my predictions:

1) duel 1.2ghz g4 / duel 1.4ghz g4 / duel 1.6ghz g4 all with 120gig HD
2) imac to 1ghz 120gig
3) emac to 933mhz 80gig
4) apple browser <-- i hope:D
5) appleworks 7 <-- probably not but im sure we wont need office anymore when it comes out :)

hmm.. cant think of anything else - i dont think that ipod needs an upgrade yet...

ELYXR
Dec 20, 2002, 07:45 PM
For Apple, synchronization software could become an important hook that might persuade consumers or businesses to choose Macs over PCs. Apple has seen its share of the overall operating system market slide in recent years as Linux gains popularity. IDC estimates that the market share for Mac OS dropped to 3.1 percent in 2001 from 4.6 percent two years earlier. Windows, in contrast, has more than 90 percent market share.

I agree that iSync is cool but I don't think there's anything really earth-shattering about it. There's only a handful of phones on the market with integrated bluetooth and they are too expensive... I can't input on the go with my iPod... the software doesn't support Pocket PC's (sorry Tungsten T... you suck!). Apple needs to juice up their product line and they know it... I think the closed architecture ghosts of old are coming back to haunt Apple.

The G4 is dead... you can overclock it all you want, it isn't going to come close to what Intel is doing. AMD taught us that already. The only reason I'm not buying a PowerMac right now is the same reason I never liked Rambus... Moto doesn't care about their customers, namely me. At least Intel is willing to fight tooth and nail for my hard earned dollars!

scem0
Dec 21, 2002, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by jettredmont


Given that Apple's never going to satisfy your mousing needs, why are you hoping for them to waste money on a fancy mouse that you'll replace with an even fancier mouse before even using it?

Of course, the optical mice weren't cheap when Apple began including them on PowerMacs either, so maybe Apple will waste money on the first thing most power users will replace when they get the box home ...

IMHO, if Apple includes Bluetooth and announces that existing BlueTooth mice will work with it (and perhaps offer a "wireless" mouse as a build-to-order option), most of our BT-in-your-mice fanatics should be leaping for joy.

Still, I don't see the advantage to BT in a mouse, but that's just me. Maybe that's why I don't feel the need to pay for such a mouse on my next desktop ...

The advantage of a BT mouse is obvious, no wires ;). What makes
you think that apple won't ever have a right click and a scroll
whell on any of their mouses? A lot of people have talked about
how they want one, although apple doesn't always do what
people want, they try to satisfy the people who keep them in
business.

And also, what makes you think that I would go off and buy a new
mouse as soon as I got apple's mouse? The only reason I ditched
my apple mouse was because I couldn't live without the right click
and more importantly the scroll wheel.

I won't really be pissed if apple doesn't actively try to improve
their already existing products, because I won't have anything
to do with apple and their computers.
and buy a new mouse as soon as I got the apple mouse? :eek: ;)

Durandal7
Dec 21, 2002, 08:10 PM
As the Macintosh enters the mid-00's it will find itself confounded by a new market that is ever variable. The MacOS will be forced to change it's focus from the current focus to durability and centrality. As centrality becomes more key we can expect to see more "hub" products as I like to call them. Durability will further become central to the MacOS we will see more products designed for interconnectivity and networkablility. In short the "digital hub" will become important to Apple's primary business and marketing strategy.

yamadataro
Dec 23, 2002, 06:44 AM
Originally posted by bluecell
My guess is that Steve Jobs will make an "earth-shattering" announcement. I'm not making any other predictions at this point. It will probably be positive.

Yeah, I'm hoping for that too.

Apple hasn't released major new stuff for a while. It makes a logical sense business-wise to release something totally new now. Update and speed bumps are nice, but I'm expecting something more.

Predicting what will be annouced at MWSF is fun, but just think of the posiblity of something beyond our imagination gives me a real shake in my brain! Remember the world before iPod and PowerBook G4? I want to see the same kind of surprise on January 7th.

My expectations are VERY high, Apple!

Oh, and video conferencing in iChat is nice. There's an industry standard in Windows world. but there's no major video conf software on Mac. Video conferencing and communications in general is all about standards. I can not ask my clients to install a new software just to video conf with me. It should be installed with an OS as default. And along with this iChat update, I hope Apple will introduce that live IP address transfer service on .Mac which we'be been talking about.

jefhatfield
Dec 23, 2002, 11:58 AM
i don't see it in two weeks, but an apple pda or cell phone would be great

richard5mith
Dec 28, 2002, 02:25 PM
I just posted my own predictions - http://www.allapple.com/article.plm/85. It's very long, so I won't copy and paste it here.

And, since it's an ad free site, hopefully nobody complains. :)

Spievy
Dec 28, 2002, 03:29 PM
My Predictions

Faster iMac - in the tune of 933MHz and 1GHz and maybe faster bus
Not sure of new iMac LCDs

G3 iMac- Possibly speed increase nearing 1GHz for cheap education

eMac - Nothing, maybe price cut

Pro Line - either announce 970 processor ship in a couple months or no announcment and new processor in early summer

iBook - Nothing

PowerBook - Nothing

New iTunes 4 with support of Rendevous

iPod - Price Cut

Maybe new digital live style device - newton like pda with ink well runs a lite OS X, maybe G3 processor, but this one is a stretch!


That is my predictions, Oh, and Steve-o has lamp chops, just joking ;)

dglow
Dec 28, 2002, 04:41 PM
I thought it would happen with iTunes 3, but I'm still waiting, so...

I hope to see AAC encoding in iTunes (aka .mp4), and a corresponding update that adds the codec to iPods.

Get ready to re-rip your CDs! <g>

imaginereno
Dec 28, 2002, 05:32 PM
I think they might introduce a new iPod version that has inputs for recording analog/microphone/digital source.

Of course, price reductions on current models.

MacDuffer
Dec 28, 2002, 06:50 PM
[i]Originally posted by Megaquad [/i
-more schillermania [/B]

LOL! Sweet Lord, take me now! Although, I'll take "Schillermania" over "Ballmermania", any day!

"THE SWITCHERS, THE SWITCHERS, THE SWITCHERS, THE SWITCHERS! THE SWITCHERS, THE SWITCHERS, THE SWITCHERS, THE SWITCHERS,THE SWITCHERS,THE SWITCHERS,THE SWITCHERS, THE SWITCHERS...
... YES!!!

If you don't get the above joke, ya gotta see this clip: http://msboycott.com/media/ballmer_developers.mpg

Be afraid. Be very very afraid.

And, I got four words for ya! I-STUBBED-MY-TOE!!!
(option 2: I-NEED-SOME-DEODORANT!!! yeeaaAAAHHH!!!!
http://msboycott.com/media/ballmer_monkey.mpg

MacDuffer
Dec 28, 2002, 06:54 PM
Originally posted by jettredmont

* Interesting fact. Only one company in the PPC/WinTel world has a corporate directive that says that any promise it makes to a customer must be met, no matter what the cost. Any guess who? That's right: IBM. It's Second Directive, issued by Watson himself in the 1950s, and still followed.

Well, that certainly bodes well for the PPC 970! it might be coming out in July. Until then, expect more from that Sad Sack, Motorola, folks. :mad:

non fiction
Dec 28, 2002, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by pianojoe
- Minor iMac speed bump, none for eMac, iBook and Powerbook.
- Bluetooth all across the line save eMac.

The pro line:

1) Fast: Powermac G4 Dual 1GHz, available.
2) Faster: Powermac 970 1.6GHz, available Feb.
3) Fastest: Powermac 970 1.8GHz, available March.
4) Ultimate: Powermac 970 Dual 1.6GHz, available March.

The second model will gently outperform the first.

At least someone is hopeful of new PowerMacs!

I am not sure that I agree with the predictions above. I don't think the 970 will arrive before the end of the year - although it may appear sooner in the Server line. That would be an obvious choice for such a monster processor. I think we will see a new chip introduced with delivery in the coming months. It will be a G4/5 and it will be made by Motorola. It will be the next chip in their roadmap (A new roadmap none of us have seen)and will have improved bus speeds, full DDR support and will hopefully have a low end speed of 1.5Ghz up to maybe 2.0Ghz.

Everyone seems to think Motorola is a gone, but they will be here for some time to come. They dropped the ball in the mid nineties when Apple seemed on the brink, but the PPC will soon be back on a very nice development path.

I think I am ready to buy a new PowerMac. Talk to me Steve!

michaelb1
Dec 28, 2002, 11:06 PM
definitely bluetooth integration across the board with cordless bluetooth mouse and keyboard on imacs and g4 towers
also
iMac 19", discontinued 15"
imac, g4, ibook speedbumps
itunes update w/ randezvous
ichat and ical updates
iPod sofware update to sync with Mail. Read emails away from desk.
.Mac update. Dynamic web hosting. .Mac members will be able to point there Mac homepage to thier own computer and host from there.
also streaming q-time though homepage from home Mac. (plug in digicam and stream events, birthdsay parties, whatever to invited viewers) cool
we'll see.
Michaelb1

MarksEvilTwin
Dec 28, 2002, 11:48 PM
Removed

jefhatfield
Dec 28, 2002, 11:58 PM
on the pc side, the 15" inch lcd seems to be the standard size lcd for consumers, so i can't see apple dropping the smaller size lcd imac either

michaelb1
Dec 29, 2002, 12:57 AM
I would be cool to carry my emails with me in my iPod.
Is this outta the question? Apple could just tie it in with iSync like they do now with contacts and calendars

TMJ1974
Dec 29, 2002, 02:07 AM
I am among the many who REALLY REALLY want a PPC 970 based PowerMac, however, I don't see this coming until MWSF 04.

I don't think any cover up is happening...IBM truly won't have the chip ready until the 2nd half of this year.

When it is ready, Apple would logically want to add it to servers first, if they are serious about the server business. Then, PowerMacs would again receive "hand me down" technical design.

The current PowerMac design (logic board, etc) was likely be made to last 2+ generations (on 6 month upgrade schedule)

Believe me, I want it sooner, but I'm trying to be realistic.

Apple has absolutely got to update the display line. I don't see any choice on this issue. Let's have some 17", 19" and 22/23" with widescreen. Not everyone needs a $2500+ widescreen. I'd also like to see pricing more in line with current economic and competative conditions. There are some name brand 17" screens for $600 out there now.

iMac will most likely get an update, considering it's popularity. Unfortunately, the more they update iMac, the less differences there are between them and my PowerMac. Why did I buy a professional machine again ? ?

Laptops were just updated......

I'd love to see a price cut on iPod, even if it's only $50. Maybe some MP4 support.

iTunes, MP4 import option would be awesome.

iPhoto, load albums at program start (like iTunes) instead of the whole library. Actually, they should just buy iView and incorporate it.

iMovie/iDVD, more features (to keep it in line with some newer PC offerings) The excuse that it can't be soooo good as to compete with Final Cut Pro/DVD Studio Pro is not our problem. They will just have to make Studio Pro/FCP even better.

we will soon find out

Tim

jefhatfield
Dec 29, 2002, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by TMJ1974
I am among the many who REALLY REALLY want a PPC 970 based PowerMac, however, I don't see this coming until MWSF 04.

I don't think any cover up is happening...IBM truly won't have the chip ready until the 2nd half of this year.



Tim

sounds about right...but it will be nice if it happens at all

KLFloyd
Dec 29, 2002, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by Durandal7

They are moving away from major conventions. MWNY was a bit of a bust. I really don't think there will be a Powermac update until March but I hope I'm mistaken.

I too have heard rumors of Apple wanting to get away from MacWorld. When you think about it, why would Apple want to give their money and publicity to a publishing company? They really don't need it. With all of their apple stores Apple has their own platform to launch their own conventions.

I'm sure in the future Apple will stay somewhat involved with MacWorld but my guess is in the next few years start looking for "AppleWorld"

As for your perdictions, I too held off on an iPod for Christmas for hopes of updates, but considering the iPods are only a year old and so far two major updates I wouldn't hold your breath.

Also, apple has just started widley marketing the iPod to other companies for resale, BestBuy, Target, etc. I think they'd be real hesitant to introduce a brand new update that would drop the value of these store's current stock for risk of alinating them.

Just my thoughts...

sedarby
Dec 29, 2002, 11:14 AM
The big announcement will be that Steve Jobs has chosen to bow out and pursue other interests. His reason will be that he feels he has taken Apple as far as he can. The flack he had to endure concerning the bonus he received recently will have figured prominantly in his decision. The board of directors will scramble for a new CEO. Apple will endure but pursue other ventures more inline with the current economy.

Although an updated iMac would be nice.;)

MacDuffer
Dec 29, 2002, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by sedarby
The big announcement will be that Steve Jobs has chosen to bow out and pursue other interests.

nnnNNNOOOOOooooooo...!! :eek:

But, some pundits seem to agree with you (http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/021220/bizfeature_media_leaders_2.html)!

dglow
Dec 29, 2002, 01:08 PM
We aren't going to see a 19" iMac at Macworld, period. Many would argue these machines are already too expensive for the current market (no flames, please, I own one), and a larger display is the #1 way to increase the iMac's cost. It just wouldn't make sense.

The most significant hardware changes the iMac might see are: 1) slot-loading drives, and 2) an integrated Bluetooth transciever (and matching keyboard & mouse).

The 19" rumors refer to a separate studio display, likely in widescreen format. Apple's 15" display can't compete with other offerings in the market, so it will be dropped.

Another thing we won't see on the iMac: Firewire II. Yes, it'll happen eventually, but can't we all agree Apple will debut this on their pro models first? History shows us how Apple's hardware food chain works: introduce new tech on their pro (or server) line, then let it trickle down to the consumer models.

Besides, what use would an iMac possibly have for 1394b that regular Firewire can't already handle?

<sound of silence>

Right. Thought so. <g>

banjoboy1979
Dec 30, 2002, 12:53 AM
Originally posted by MacDuffer


nnnNNNOOOOOooooooo...!! :eek:

But, some pundits seem to agree with you (http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/021220/bizfeature_media_leaders_2.html)!

that's a really interesting article. actually, this long shot idea of Jobs bowing out does unfortunately seem not so unlikely.

bizarre.

pruiz10
Dec 30, 2002, 01:06 AM
maybe steve will let woz take over

funkywhat2
Dec 30, 2002, 01:21 AM
Originally posted by pruiz10
maybe steve will let woz take over

Oh, God no.
I can see it now:
"OS 7.5, here we come!"

MacDuffer
Dec 30, 2002, 09:19 AM
Originally posted by banjoboy1979

this long shot idea of Jobs bowing out does unfortunately seem not so unlikely. bizarre.

You kidding?! It would be very unfortunate for Apple if Jobs left!

And Pruiz10, Wozniak wouldn't do well at running Apple, nor is it a task he would find enjoyable in the first place.

Sorcerin
Dec 30, 2002, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by Megaquad

exactly, and earliest you might expect new powermacs would be.... april

April? How did you come up with that? Sounds arbitrary to me.

Last year, the flat-screen iMacs were introduced at MacWorld, and the new Power Macs were introduced about 3 weeks later, near the end of January. Apple appears to stick to a 6-month cycle for updating new products, so we will likely see new Power Macs sometime in January, not necessarily at MWSF.

Also, the Steve Jobs said that the Power Macs will no longer boot into OS 9 after January 2003. This announcement was later amended to account for education and Quark customers, and Apple announced that they will offer *one* configuration that will still boot into OS 9 after January 2003.

This would evidence that Apple intends to announce new Power Macs sometime in January, though not necessarily at MWSF.

Will they update the laptops? Not likely. They just did about a month or two ago. An update to these lines would not keep with Apples pattern of behavior with their 6 month cycle.

Will there be a 19" iMac? Not likely. Despite some people claiming that they "have to have one," a 19" screen would substantially increase the cost of the iMac, and likely without substantially increasing market demand over the 17" model. We are more likley to see a 19" studio display.

Will Apple announce a new digital lifestyle device? Possibly. There have been some murmurings of various things in this regard for months and months: an Apple branded cell-phone, a PDA, some sort of console entertainment device. With the success of the iPod, it wouldn't be out of Apple's character to do something like this.

Could I be wrong? Absolutely. But let's at least base our predictions on what Apple has done in the past as opposed to just making stuff up and telling people to expect it.

Sorcerin

-hh
Dec 30, 2002, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by Sorcerin

Last year, the flat-screen iMacs were introduced at MacWorld, and the new Power Macs were introduced about 3 weeks later, near the end of January. Apple appears to stick to a 6-month cycle for updating new products, so we will likely see new Power Macs sometime in January, not necessarily at MWSF.

Also, the Steve Jobs said that the Power Macs will no longer boot into OS 9 after January 2003... This would evidence that Apple intends to announce new Power Macs sometime in January, though not necessarily at MWSF.




Agreed. It does infer that there needs to be fairly broadish hardware product change announcements to 'require' this.

Now since I can't ever recall Apple supporting more than two different chips at once, once the IBM chip is ready, the G3 needs to be retired. Since we know that the IBM chip is coming, if its not ready but Apple's still looking for "big" annoucements, it could be the G4 upgrades of all of the current G3 machines, namely the eMac and iBooks, in anticipation of the impending top-end upgrades.

So that's my best guess. I've been personally disappointed in the last several Apple announcements, so I'm not really expecting all that much this time around - - it would take a 2GHz chip sized announcement next week to get me "really excited", and unfortunately, that's extremely unlikely.

Strategically, a G4 eMac and G4 iBook don't *absolutely need* speedbumps to position them properly. They also serve as consumption outlets for slower G4 production, so that the percentage of G4's that clock higher will increase and thus be more available for the higher end models. In theory, this should allow for a modest speedbump on the PowerMac and the iMac product lines.

On breakthroughs that are below the awareness radar, I'd put motherboard bandwidth issues on the plate. We known that there's bottlenecks in the architecture, and that the IBM chip won't really shine until these are resolved, so a possible January announcement would be a "G5 Ready" motherboard that also gets some more performance out of the current (or bumped) single or dual G4's.

And finally, in the "Dream Big" camp, they could go one step further and put the CPU back onto a daughterboard (ala 7600/8600/9600), and announce an IBM CPU upgrade kit for when the IBM chips arrive later in 2003. Such a move would let them move new PowerMac hardware out the door today, instead of allowing all of the Pro Users to sit for YA 6 months and think about converting over to PC's.


-hh

primalman
Dec 30, 2002, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by -hh

Now since I can't ever recall Apple supporting more than two different chips at once, once the IBM chip is ready, the G3 needs to be retired. Since we know that the IBM chip is coming, if its not ready but Apple's still looking for "big" annoucements, it could be the G4 upgrades of all of the current G3 machines, namely the eMac and iBooks, in anticipation of the impending top-end upgrades.

-hh

Uh, the eMac is a G4 machine, the only G3s machines that Apple currently has are the iBook and Classic iMac.

And Apple at times supported many chips at once, remember the days of the LC and Mac IIs? Lots of differing 68000 series chips with and without FPUs, math co-processors and 32-bit support. Or the Power Macs of the mid 90s, when there were 601, 603, 603e, 604 and 604e chips floating around?

I do agree though that the iBok needs to be moved to the G4, but never before the PowerBook either is moved to a 'G5/970' or has no less than a 30% speed advantage plus other anemities that are an obvious improvement over the iBook. And the classic iMac needs to be 86'ed and the eMac price lowered by at least 30%, with a slim feature set mind you.

-hh
Dec 31, 2002, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by primalman


Uh, the eMac is a G4 machine, the only G3s machines that Apple currently has are the iBook and Classic iMac.

Oops, you're right. The eMac's G4 upgrade didn't register on my awareness radar, as I had subconciously written it off due to its "El Cheapo Education Special" origination.



And Apple at times supported many chips at once, remember the days of the LC and Mac IIs? Lots of differing 68000 series chips with and without FPUs, math co-processors and 32-bit support.

Personally, I don't consider FPU's to be the same thing; YMMV.

Nevertheless, Apple has been generally good (as of late) to not have such chip design proliferation. Even so, consider the following timeline that I've gleaned from lowendmac.com:

1994 040 601
1995 040 601 603 604
1996 (601) 603 604 {604e}
1997 (604) 604e {G3}
1998 604e G3
1999 G3 G4

() = "early" in year, {} = "late" in year

IMO, the trend is obvious, although I do freely admit that there's multiple flavors of G3's & G4's underlying this as of late.


I do agree though that the iBook needs to be moved to the G4, but never before the PowerBook either is moved to a 'G5/970' or has no less than a 30% speed advantage plus other anemities that are an obvious improvement over the iBook.

Yes, the Powerbook is a "problem" in this grand scheme idea. And a dual G4 processor configuration would be one way to solve that problem.



And the classic iMac needs to be 86'ed and the eMac price lowered by at least 30%, with a slim feature set mind you.

There's invariably going to need various tweaking. My thoughts as of late for my new hardware purchase has been leaning more and more towards an interium solution: buy the upper end eMac or iBook and wait ~18 months before going for an IBM 970 based mac. This should be around the time that if the 970 arrives on time that its due for its first update. Afterall, Apple has generally not been all that great in the first generation of their newest chips: it seems to be a "shove it in there for quick sales" and isn't as well optimized as it could be.


-hh

MacDuffer
Dec 31, 2002, 11:12 AM
Primalman said:
"I do agree though that the iBook needs to be moved to the G4, but never before the PowerBook either is moved to a 'G5/970' or has no less than a 30% speed advantage plus other anemities that are an obvious improvement over the iBook."

-hh said:
"Yes, the Powerbook is a "problem" in this grand scheme idea. And a dual G4 processor configuration would be one way to solve that problem."

MacDuffer says:
"The Powerbook is the problem"?!! Don't think so! A 1GHz with a slot-loading Superdrive kicks royal a$$, man! A single 1GHz in a tower form factor wouldn't, but as a portable, it's damned sweet! And, given the heat issues of having two processors crammed into a portable, that aint happening for a looong time, if ever.

cubist
Dec 31, 2002, 11:40 AM
... I suppose a G4 iBook is a possibility. I wouldn't expect it at MWSF, but possibly a few months later.

The way they would prevent the G4 iBook from cannibalizing the Tibook is simple: eliminate the slow-selling 14" model. That model is a problem anyway. As another poster pointed out, it's too expensive for what you get compared to the 12" model.

The 'April' estimate on the tower upgrade was based on the fact that the last tower upgrade took almost 8 months (Jan to Aug). However, if the 7457's are available, an earlier release is possible.

Re the daughtercard concept: Aren't all the CPUs in current towers on daughtercards already? My G4 cube has the CPU on a daughtercard. Still, given that the 970 is 64-bit and has a different bus design, I think a mobo swap will still be necessary.

MacDuffer
Dec 31, 2002, 12:22 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/12/20021230122005.shtml

jefhatfield
Dec 31, 2002, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by pruiz10
maybe steve will let woz take over

woz is the high tech computer visionary and steve jobs is high tech's first marketing visionary

at this point it is doubtful anything big and revolutionary in high tech or computers will ever come along so the marketing is the more important part at this stage in computers so steve job's type of thinking is better for apple right now

...unless the woz has something as technically visionary as another personal computer or something on that level...but i doubt it

the woz would have to find a cure for cancer or make the perfect human clone or have an idea that BIG for apple to take him as CEO

and the woz is not a financial type to take the helm of a company...but since apple has lost 2/3 of its cash reserve and had its market share (cpu magazine) get cut by 3/4, jobs is not exactly a numbers man either
:p

maybe someone like larry ellison or a mike dell type could be apple's next ceo

jobs is a great short term person...marketing apple inc in the early days from garage to thousands of employees and coming in in 97 and saving the company and forging a lasting peace with microsoft, which was needed

skunk
Dec 31, 2002, 01:53 PM
Jonathan Ive? Apple needs Dell or Ellison like a hole in the head....Anyway, SJ won't leave during the year he's touted as being so great for Apple. I hope.

jefhatfield
Dec 31, 2002, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by skunk
Jonathan Ive?

yeah, him too ;)

we all know steve jobs is not going to stay at the helm of apple forever

even bill gates stepped down from his ceo position at microsoft

zarathustra
Dec 31, 2002, 05:49 PM
Originally posted by synthetickittie
Ive had the pc Im using right now for 3-4 years now and have wanted a mac for about a year now but never had any money for new computer with having to save up money for college with my family and now Im a senior and accually little old me got a full schollarship and Im definitly gonna be getting a mac soon and I defiitly am gonna at least wait for next month to see if any new powermacs get updated but do you think if they arent that I should wait a few more months for a new processor? Ive put up this PC for 4 years now I think I can last a few month month for something a lot better but of course would rather get whats out now if its not gonna be all that much better to wait more time for

Holy punctuation, Batman!

jefhatfield
Dec 31, 2002, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by zarathustra


Holy punctuation, Batman!


you can say that again!

any mac, $999 g3 ibook all the way thru dual G4 tower, and you will see why we macheads love our machines so much

january brings high expectations every year:D

jbm
Jan 1, 2003, 02:36 PM
I'm betting that ipod will support ogg-vorbis through firmware updates.

-hh
Jan 2, 2003, 10:39 AM
Originally posted by MacDuffer
-hh said:
"Yes, the Powerbook is a "problem" in this grand scheme idea. And a dual G4 processor configuration would be one way to solve that problem."

MacDuffer says:
"The Powerbook is the problem"?!! Don't think so! A 1GHz with a slot-loading Superdrive kicks royal a$$, man!

Non Sequetor.

The "problem" I was referring to was the cannibalization of Powerbook sales if the iBook is moved up too far in performance.

This not a "performance" problem, but a "price-performance" issue. Case in point: would most consumers rather have a 1GHz w/SD for $3K in a Powerbook, or the same in an iBook for $2K?


My point is merely to observe that an iBook bump puts pressure to move the Powerbook up as well, to prevent cannibalization of sales. And if you don't have many options to bump up the Powerbook, you're in a bind - - the Powerbook holds the iBook back, and that's a problem, is it not?



And, given the heat issues of having two processors crammed into a portable, that aint happening for a looong time, if ever.


I don't disagree, but under the assumption that you have a faster iBook that you want to move into production, I'd be slightly slower in knocking DP's completely off the table for possible consideration. Other than a single step speedbump, what other options does Apple really have available for the Powerbook?


-hh

MacDuffer
Jan 2, 2003, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by -hh

My point is merely to observe that an iBook bump puts pressure to move the Powerbook up as well, to prevent cannibalization of sales. And if you don't have many options to bump up the Powerbook, you're in a bind - - the Powerbook holds the iBook back, and that's a problem, is it not?


It sure is. And Apple is in a real pickle with processors. THAT's the darned problem. And, I agree that SOMETHING has to be done to make a bigger distinction between i and TiBooks WITHOUT havig to use the G3, but duallies are hot hot hot! Applee is in a real jam ("pickle", "jam"... I gotta go eat!).

Things will get better this year, when that new IBM processor comes out. Until then, we'll be squirming in our seats! :(

skunk
Jan 2, 2003, 10:59 AM
Well cheer up, because according to MacBidouille there are new Powerbooks on the way at MWSF.....

lmalave
Jan 2, 2003, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by MacDuffer


It sure is. And Apple is in a real pickle with processors. THAT's the darned problem. And, I agree that SOMETHING has to be done to make a bigger distinction between i and TiBooks WITHOUT havig to use the G3, but duallies are hot hot hot! Applee is in a real jam ("pickle", "jam"... I gotta go eat!).

Things will get better this year, when that new IBM processor comes out. Until then, we'll be squirming in our seats! :(

The new 7457 G4 consumes only 7.5W of power vs. at least 12W or so for the curent 7455. So maybe dual-G4 PowerBooks are actually a possiblity? The 7457 is supposed to come out in February, but maybe Apple will announce at MWSF and start taking preorders?

Then again, if they put in dual-G4s in the PowerBooks I think they will put a G4 in the iBook at the same time - which gets back to your point about not enough difference between iBook and PowerBook. But it would just be like the iMac is to the PowerMac: the "Power" line would have Dual CPUs, better components, and greater expandability (not that the PowerBook has that much expandability, but at least it has a card slot whereas the iBook doesn't).

jefhatfield
Jan 2, 2003, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by -hh



The "problem" I was referring to was the cannibalization of Powerbook sales if the iBook is moved up too far in performance.



if apple could make a faster, cheaper ibook, i think they would since it's time for apple's consumer lines to catch up to the pc, regardless of what it does to the tibook's reputation

the pc laptops, like dell's consumer 2650 series vs their top of the line 8200 series, has a lot of overlap...a maxed out 2650 costs more than a simply outfitted 8200

same with compaq and their budget 900 series and their higher end 1500 series

arnette
Jan 2, 2003, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by lmalave


The new 7457 G4 consumes only 7.5W of power vs. at least 12W or so for the curent 7455. So maybe dual-G4 PowerBooks are actually a possiblity?


I don't know who was talking about this before, but I've heard this several times over. I think it would be a miraculous feat if Apple were able to put two G4s in their PowerBook without making the damn thing glow red-hot when you power it up. Just because the 7.5W is the rate for the newer chip doesn't mean it's going to be drastically cooler in there. You have hard disks, batteries, optical drives, etc. heating everything up.
I'm going to go with 'not possible' on this one.

atomicon
Jan 2, 2003, 03:06 PM
I predict a video phone.

lmalave
Jan 2, 2003, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by arnette



I don't know who was talking about this before, but I've heard this several times over. I think it would be a miraculous feat if Apple were able to put two G4s in their PowerBook without making the damn thing glow red-hot when you power it up. Just because the 7.5W is the rate for the newer chip doesn't mean it's going to be drastically cooler in there. You have hard disks, batteries, optical drives, etc. heating everything up.
I'm going to go with 'not possible' on this one.

Agreed, Apple would have to improve the cooling system. But look, at 7.5W even dual G4s consume less power than any single Pentium 4 mobile or whatnot chip (I think I read something like 20W for a P4-M?). Of course, PC's run hot and sometimes have loud fans. But look, from all the stories of how hot the PowerBook gets, it's not like it's even in Apple's strategy at all to have a PowerBook that runs as cool as my iBook. If Apple gets better cooling and a slightly better battery, they can build a dual-G4 PowerBook that doesn't run any hotter and gets just as much battery life as the current PowerBooks. Would it be a marvel of engineering? Sure. But look at Apple's winning streak lately (TiBook, iPod, FP iMac).

jettredmont
Jan 2, 2003, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by arnette



I don't know who was talking about this before, but I've heard this several times over. I think it would be a miraculous feat if Apple were able to put two G4s in their PowerBook without making the damn thing glow red-hot when you power it up. Just because the 7.5W is the rate for the newer chip doesn't mean it's going to be drastically cooler in there. You have hard disks, batteries, optical drives, etc. heating everything up.
I'm going to go with 'not possible' on this one.

Huh?

If the CPU itself consumes/emits 7.5W of power, then having two CPUs instead of one adds exactly 7.5W to the power-dissipation requirements. Assuming Apple doesn't add a heating coil in there just for kicks, if the current single CPU is dissipating 12W and the dual-CPUs are together dissipating 15W, that's a 3W difference. Which isn't all that huge (considering that, as you rightly pointed out, there are many other components which generate more heat than the CPU collectively ... and of course Intel PC vendors somehow manage to dissipate the 50-70W radiating from their P4 chips like a blast furnace ... I think Apple might be able to swing an extra 3W of dissipation if it means a second CPU on a laptop, which noone on the Intel side it even dreaming of ...)

I'm going to go with 'definitely possible, assuming the 7.5W dissipation figure is accurate' on this one.

skunk
Jan 2, 2003, 07:31 PM
Originally posted by jettredmont
I'm going to go with 'definitely possible, assuming the 7.5W dissipation figure is accurate' on this one.

And I'm going with the "definitely desirable, assuming I can think of an excuse to get one"!! :)

Nemesis
Jan 2, 2003, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by skunk


And I'm going with the "definitely desirable, assuming I can think of an excuse to get one"!! :)

I'd like to think in a different way.

For example: A year ago, 98% of rumorz predicted G3 flat panel iMac. G4 iMac was considered to be a dream, because all ProMacs were using G4. Well, so what if ProMacs use G4?

Apple proved that even rumorz and those loyal to the platform and those who spend hours and hours in analysing things were wrong! Remember those updates at Apple's web site few days before MWSF 2002? ;)

And not only G4 in iMac -- no one actually couldn't imagine how new iMac would be marvelously designed machine! Floating screen!? Did you hear anything about that in rumorz? All I remember were those funny kiddish concepts exhibited in web boards but nothing as completely different and radical as new iMac.

I like the way Apple denies common logic and "linear" anticipation of things coming. All rumorz are in vain, because simple deduction and trend analysing don't suit Apple's way. They, however, suit Wintel world more accurately, because that world is not driven by invention, passion and radical new improvements.

So, think different. Expect the unexpected. Anything is possible, because that's Apple's way. In fact, all creative people are driven by this simple truth.

And also, all wars are based on deception. IT and Hi-tech industry are the same battlefields as those described in Sun Tzu's masterpiece few millenia ago.

For example, in early 2002 Apple touted that Jaguar will be released somewhere in September/October 2002, but, au contraire: it was released in August! That was a great surprise for both customers and software industry and everyone cheered Apple! Great! All that coupled with outstanding new features Jaguar has, produced a winner -- and that's Jaguar, because the atmosphere surrounding Apple's big cat was auspicios and cool.

But Apple knew that, they did this on purpose and everything was directed carefully. If you analyse this, you'll eventually conclude that all was a big, cool, marketing perfomance.

So, in few days, again ... expect the unexpected. Because the ammount of deception is very high now and the best thing is move our asses out of the foggy valley. :)

Jookbox
Jan 3, 2003, 11:07 AM
my prediction is that apple will alienate even more design professionals like myself. yeah i'm using a PEECEE now.

by the time i need to upgrade, i truly hope apple get it's act together.

jefhatfield
Jan 3, 2003, 09:01 PM
Originally posted by Jookbox
my prediction is that apple will alienate even more design professionals like myself. yeah i'm using a PEECEE now.

by the time i need to upgrade, i truly hope apple get it's act together.

besides speed, what advantage does a pc have for designers?

skunk
Jan 4, 2003, 06:26 AM
Originally posted by jefhatfield
besides speed, what advantage does a pc have for designers?

an excuse to upgrade more often? ;) :D

primalman
Jan 6, 2003, 08:14 AM
Originally posted by jefhatfield


besides speed, what advantage does a pc have for designers?

Crappy type controls....

imamacguy17
Jan 6, 2003, 10:09 AM
so jookbox said he's using a PC and hopes apple gets its act together before its time to upgarde.
so that means jookbox is expecting apple to get there act together like three weeks ago, or the
day after he bought his P(retty)C(rappy) box. If you are running into speed bottle necks thats impressive
because i've never ran into any problems. and as always remeber how tolerant designers where to running
photoshop on Power Mac 6100s. I think people "switching" to PCs and then whinning about having to do it
is rediculous and mundane. Apple can not help what components they get. it is not Apples fault. They give
us the best that they can at the time. Its not like they whipped motherboards out of their @$$es every time
something new comes out. so we see high volume of the 970 early second half of this year. expect to see it
in the Xserve in July and Power Macs in January 04. BECAUSE IT TAKES TIME TO IMPLEMENT NEW TECHNOLOGY!
This is the year of the Mac. Every year Apple seems to be doing better. with that in mind quit feeding into the
megahertz myth and use your 2+ ghz PC and whinning about Apple and its 1.25 dualies when ghz doesnt matter.
It mattered back in the day of the 68K chips not anymore 100 megahertz and such dont make a difference any more.
its all about the parts talking to eachother. Rumors I bet we wont see. Apple branded phone (maybe partnership with Sony Erickson but no Apple phone) No Tablet. These things are stupid and fairly useless. Definately no Apple on intel or AMD. it aint going to happen until microsoft palladium crap happens. I for one cant wait for tomorrow and am always impressed.

Mac Addict since my dad brought home a MAC SE in '87.
God Save the Queen because she needs all the help she can get

primalman
Jan 6, 2003, 10:16 AM
Originally posted by imamacguy17
If you are running into speed bottle necks thats impressive
because i've never ran into any problems. and as always remeber how tolerant designers where to running
photoshop on Power Mac 6100s.

I remember running PS 1.0 while I was in school on LC IIs and Mac Color Classics. 68020 and 030 processors at a whopping 10-15 mhz with no math co-processors. Talk about Zen-like patience!