What makes you feel proud of owning a Mac?

[mymemory]

Well, in my case, right now in my country we have a lot of political and social problems and the internet is a big battle field for viruses from the goverment to the people against the goverment. So, most of the e-mails that are around there are from people complaining of viruses and .exe files that damage their computers, erase their Outlook files, send confidential information from their PC's to some where else, etc.

I'm always feels greate because I have a Mac and no PC virus will touch it:D

[King Cobra]

The simplest answer to the question:
"What makes you feel proud of owning a Mac?"

would have to be:
"It makes me feel proud I don't own a PC." :D

Except for my xBox. :rolleyes:

Well, I like Macs because, for the most part, the casing on many models is very simple (iMac G3 and G4, iBook 12 inch, PowerMac G3 and early G4, Powerbook G3 and G4). Of course, nothing matches the stability of OS X, assuming you take care of your computer.

I also like to bring my iPod and my iBook to class, just to listen to music on it, work on it (especially for English), and piss a few PC users off. :D

[ShaolinMiddleFinger]

Style, grace, and stability, that's what makes me proud of owning my Mac.

[scem0]

I get mac os x, and they don't. ;)

[Flickta]

It is completely different and is better to my taste. A thing for the Chosen... Well, a kind of.

[mymemory]

Yeah but you have to be more specific. For me the idea of not careing about viruses in the internet is a big deal and the other thing are those "tool pack" or what ever the name is that the PC users are allways downloading, thatand another bunch of things.

[Durandal7]

I feel proud because I have an excellent interface like no other that is mine to comand in the pursuit of happiness.

[pianojoe]

I understand that, according to the Holy Bible, pride is one of the Seven Sins.

I'm not proud using a mac. I'm using it because I want to work the thing, not learn how it works. But that's a decision based on laziness and on not being ready to spend my nerves just to save a few bucks - a clever decision, maybe, but not something to be proud of.

[Steradian]

well what makes me "proud" of owning a mac is the fact that by owning 1 you join a community of intelligent, helpful people who are loyal to the mac platform for reasons of thier own :)

PowerBook G4 1ghz

[benixau]

Originally posted by Steradian
well what makes me "proud" of owning a mac is the fact that by owning 1 you join a community of intelligent, helpful people who are loyal to the mac platform for reasons of thier own :)

PowerBook G4 1ghz

here here. And, i never have had a machine that just, well .... worked.

[DavidFDM]

To me, it's the whole package.

I had issues with my Quicksilver and AppleCare took good care of me.

My second Studio Display was misaligned. They are replacing it.

The stability of the OS.

The lack of viruses.

Apple's proactive approach to security.

The fact that Apple innovates, rather than emulates.

Apple believes I am not a media pirate.

The excitement of Steve's keynotes.

ColorSync.

ADC and FireWire.

The passion and helpfulness of the Mac community.

Value for your dollar. Consider the iApps when you look at hardware costs.

Happy holidays,

David

[benixau]

Originally posted by DavidFDM

Apple believes I am not a media pirate.


LOL, whats with the others?? this is good enough on its own :D

Originally posted by DavidFDM

The excitement of Steve's keynotes.


Absolutely, look people i am so povo i cant afford a suit :)

[demonx]

When I open my iBook Screen and jaws drop as the look at thier laptop "bricks" and come over and start getting thier little dirty, crumbly, windows paws all over it freakin ba^#^#. Whoops got away on a tangent there:p

[kiwi_the_iwik]

...because they last.

I've still got an original 512KE, an LCII, a Performa 5240, and a G4 Cube. All of which work as well as the day I bought them.

That says a lot for the product.

[Les Kern]

When I'm in the company of hard-core PC users. They see me put together an iMovie in a few minutes, print to any network printer in their PC offices, move effortlessly through apps and settings, and show an overall exponential difference in productivity compared to them. I live in the Mac world, and am quite comfortable.

[Megaquad]

It's nice to be a mac user,i ts just that, when someone sees my computer for the first time they say to themselves "what the f..?" and its annoying to explain to all those ignorant media drones what is a mac. Bastards!!! Most of people never heard of mac!
Imagine how long it takes to explain them that I dont have Windows, but Mac!! It's probably because of almost complete media absence of Apple in my country.
Only priest who came to bless house immediately recognized my mac it and blessed it too! :D

[MacBandit]

I feel proud that I am in no way supporting Micro$oft. I don't own any of there software or hardware that includes the XBox.

[kiwi_the_iwik]

Originally posted by MacBandit
I feel proud that I am in no way supporting Micro$oft. I don't own any of there software or hardware that includes the XBox.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Microsoft own 10% of Apple shares?

I believe Steve Jobs gave Bill Gates the shares in the 90's, as an incentive for Microsoft's continual support for the Mac platform (hence the infamous MacWorld Expo Keynote speech "...one more thing..." announcement by Jobs to introduce Gates on the big screen behind him onstage, amid a cacophony of "boo's" from the partisan audience).

[Flickta]

Originally posted by Megaquad
It's nice to be a mac user,i ts just that, when someone sees my computer for the first time they say to themselves "what the f..?" and its annoying to explain to all those ignorant media drones what is a mac. Bastards!!! Most of people never heard of mac!
Imagine how long it takes to explain them that I dont have Windows, but Mac!! It's probably because of almost complete media absence of Apple in my country.


You are right. Same is here, and it's just frustrating! Moreover, there are three common things people say: "Mac is just s***, Windows is better and Intel chips are superior!"(They know about Macintosh, and are envious), "Macintosh? Never used, but it is surely better then a PC... Am I right?"(They are just tired of their machines) and "Macintosh? Apple? What's that? What?"

The second opinion is pleasing though. :)

[superkatalog]

you have not to buy a new comp every year. the machines last very long in comparison with pc's.

[King Cobra]

I agree with Megaquad and Flickta with this one. When I first brought my iBook to class in my senior year, and some newbie classmates saw it, one mentioned that Apple sucks, or Macs suck, as well as he hates Apple. I almost lost my breakfast when he mentioned that.

Yet I've made a little comparison with the two PCs in the room I most often stay in during class days and my iBook 466. Both have 128MB, and the PCs have NT. My iBook has OS X 10.1.5 and Classic 9.2.1.

Since September, the PCs have temporarily locked up at least 10 times, one of them created so much sh** right after log in you had to delete 10MB before of the person's parition before you could log off, that computer ended up being adjusted by the computer techie (PC zealot, pies anyone?) and installs Microsoft Word for the first time upon use after log in, and occassionally some flash animations do not load under IE.

Since September, my iBook has crashed less than 5 times, and serves as an excellent source for stability and mp3s. :p

[springscansing]

Simple... www.cycling74.com

[yamadataro]

What??? I didn't know there were any other choices :cool:

I own two PCs for proofing web data and for playing games. Other than that, anything's better on Mac. You can point out millions of technological stuff, but I think it all comes down to the "feels good" factor.

Here's what Roger Ebert said, guys:
"We have six Macs here in my office at home. Life is too short to use anything but Mac; Windows is just not a human environment."

[yamadataro]

Originally posted by superkatalog
you have not to buy a new comp every year. the machines last very long in comparison with pc's.

Yeah, that's true.

And also, after the usable life of a Mac, you can just leave it somewhere in your home and it looks nice (except for the PM7000/8000/9000 lines and PM G3s!). PCs look totally junk when it's collecting dust in the house. I keep my Mac Classic just to look at in my office!

I'm buying new Macs every years just for fun though :D

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by yamadataro
I'm buying new Macs every years just for fun though :D

Wish I had the money to do that. Want to donate or sell cheap any computers that are a year old in the future?

[yamadataro]

Originally posted by MacBandit
Wish I had the money to do that. Want to donate or sell cheap any computers that are a year old in the future?

Well I use them for professional stuff for my tiny design firm. So I have a big-deal excuse for doing that :D

As to the give-aways, sorry man! I'm doing something socially meaningful with them: I give my old ones to my friends and family to suck them into the Mac cult!

Bandit, I'm hoping that Santa is coming to your way tonight ... with an Apple keyholder?!

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by yamadataro


Well I use them for professional stuff for my tiny design firm. So I have a big-deal excuse for doing that :D

As to the give-aways, sorry man! I'm doing something socially meaningful with them: I give my old ones to my friends and family to suck them into the Mac cult!

Bandit, I'm hoping that Santa is coming to your way tonight ... with an Apple keyholder?!

Keyholder? I'm not sure what that means.

I just recently purchased a new Mac so at the moment I'm not in need for a new one but I was thinking about the future. I am currently using a Dual/GHz/DDR with a gig of ram, superdrive, etc.. I don't think there will be any Apple goodies under my tree this year. I have several family members that use Macs but they aren't into it as much as I so they don't do those sorts of gifts. Computer related gifts usually come from me.

[yamadataro]

Originally posted by MacBandit
Keyholder? I'm not sure what that means.

Sorry I've just realized that it's a so-called Japan-glish (English word somebody created in Japan. I meant a key ring with an Apple tag...

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by yamadataro


Sorry I've just realized that it's a so-called Japan-glish (English word somebody created in Japan. I meant a key ring with an Apple tag...

japanglish! score, that's funnier than germish!

lol. i have to say, OS X does it for me. what a "dreamy" OS. i love having all that linux power to my name, even if i hardly use it. that, coupled with the elegance and smoothness of the interface, spoke volumes to me. and the powerbook is the coolest mobile device on the planet no matter how you cut it, hehe.

[MacsRgr8]

Mac = Pleasure without computing
Windows = Computing without pleasure

[UnixMac]

wow....... Where do I start??

[King Cobra]

Have you guys seen those commercials that help PC users learn how to use their computer? just follow me here... There is this guy dressed in white, holding a reflective dark silver CD by the sides, and has a beige/white PC to the right. The guy is giving out this CD to those, who want to know how to use their PC. And if the customer is not fully satisfied, he gets his money back.

Ironic, the first thing you should know about computers is how to turn them on/off. And you don't see anything like this from Apple. :p :rolleyes:

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by yamadataro


Sorry I've just realized that it's a so-called Japan-glish (English word somebody created in Japan. I meant a key ring with an Apple tag...


Ahhh Askodeska(sp?).

[ibookin']

-The fact that I can capture DV from a live camera for almost an hour without any crashes. The PC laptop sitting next to my machine crashed 3 times just using Word. I have found that the stability of Mac OS X is unmatched in any other consumer OS (i.e., Windows).

-Having my iBook and iPod get oohs and aahs when compared to PC bricktops and Archos MP3 Players

-Being able to run KDE, Gnome, etc. on XDarwin without installing Linux.

-Having my computers more than a year before they either break or become obsolete.

Shall I go on...?

[TyleRomeo]

Its all about the splendor of OSX

Tyler

[PC Clone]

Why am I proud of owning a PC?
-I bought it more than a year and a half ago for $800 and it's still a great system...
-Windows XP is sweet... since putting XP Professional on here many months ago it has crashed maybe 2 or 3 times tops, and nothing that wasn't solved by a simple(and quick) restart...
-I have access to hundreds and hundreds of programs at my fingertips :D
-As a gamer, there is nothing comparable to having a PC with a broadband connection...
-I love being able to upgrade whatever I want on my computer...
-I love being able to customize my computer, from the way Windows looks to the way my case looks... variety is the spice of life!
-LAN parties! Counter-strike! Bwahahahaha!
-Two button mouse! Woohoo!

I can go on forever...

[Durandal7]

Sounds like we got us a bonfide troll.

[Les Kern]

Originally posted by PC Clone
Why am I proud of owning a PC?
-I bought it more than a year and a half ago for $800 and it's still a great system...

I still have a Mac 7200 that's 6 years or so old, and it runs every program my G4 867 runs.
Point for me for longevity

-Windows XP is sweet... since putting XP Professional on here many months ago it has crashed maybe 2 or 3 times tops, and nothing that wasn't solved by a simple(and quick) restart...

I crashed once in 6 months.
TIE

-I have access to hundreds and hundreds of programs at my fingertips

Did you pay for them? I did and I indeed have hundreds. But let's face it; most everyone can get by pretty nicely with perhaps a dozen.
Okay, TIE.


-A a gamer, there is nothing comparable to having a PC with a broadband connection...

True. One point for you.


-I love being ale to upgrade whatever I want on my computer...

Mac users have no need to upgrade. Two points for me.


-I love eing able to customize my computer, from the way Windows looks to the way my case looks... variety is the spice of life!

You should get around the Mac sites more. Two points for me for your lie. :)


-LAN parties! Counter-strike! Bwahahahaha!

I do LAN parties, and I win a LOT over my PC brothers.
Point to me.

-Two button mouse! Woohoo!

Point to me. I have a four-button mouse. (And I guess a "state-of-the-art" scrollwheel... whatever that is.[/B][/QUOTE]

Six to 1. I win. Buy a Mac... you won't be sorry.

[edesignuk]

Originally posted by PC Clone
Why am I proud of owning a PC?
-I bought it more than a year and a half ago for $800 and it's still a great system...
-Windows XP is sweet... since putting XP Professional on here many months ago it has crashed maybe 2 or 3 times tops, and nothing that wasn't solved by a simple(and quick) restart...
-I have access to hundreds and hundreds of programs at my fingertips :D
-As a gamer, there is nothing comparable to having a PC with a broadband connection...
-I love being able to upgrade whatever I want on my computer...
-I love being able to customize my computer, from the way Windows looks to the way my case looks... variety is the spice of life!
-LAN parties! Counter-strike! Bwahahahaha!
-Two button mouse! Woohoo!

I can go on forever...
Sorry, did you read the title of this thread????
It's called "What makes you feel proud of owning a Mac?" :rolleyes:
This is a Mac forum, it's hard to believe you bothered to register just so that you could post this as your one and only post ever on these boards.....how sad. :p

Go have some fun! (http://groups.msn.com/TheWindowsForum) :D

[UnixMac]

Originally posted by PC Clone
Why am I proud of owning a PC?
-I bought it more than a year and a half ago for $800 and it's still a great system...
-Windows XP is sweet... since putting XP Professional on here many months ago it has crashed maybe 2 or 3 times tops, and nothing that wasn't solved by a simple(and quick) restart...
-I have access to hundreds and hundreds of programs at my fingertips :D
-As a gamer, there is nothing comparable to having a PC with a broadband connection...
-I love being able to upgrade whatever I want on my computer...
-I love being able to customize my computer, from the way Windows looks to the way my case looks... variety is the spice of life!
-LAN parties! Counter-strike! Bwahahahaha!
-Two button mouse! Woohoo!

I can go on forever...

1. I believe in the saying.. "you get what you pay for"

2. Windows XP is a light weight compared to any Unix (read OS X)

3. In almost two years of running OS X I have crashed a total of "0", Zero, Zilch times.

4. There are NO PROGRAMS that I want and cant run on Mac OS X

5. I have 3D games like Star Trek EF, QIII, Unreal II, Max Payne, Return to Castle Wolf and more..... all running at very good frame rates considering they were not written for my duel processor Mac not optimized for Altivec (they are PC ported).

6. I have upgraded my drives for the PowerMac to a RAID config, I also upgraded my graphics card to a Radeon 8500... What else do I need to upgrade?

7. OS X is the most customizable Unix out there and thats good enough for me.

8. I go to LAN parties and the PC guys all look at my machine with envy. Especially OS X.

[PC Clone]

Originally posted by Les Kern

I still have a Mac 7200 that's 6 years or so old, and it runs every program my G4 867 runs.
Point for me for longevity
Well then let's all just go out and buy used Mac 7200's then! Screw all this modern "2 GHz" crap! My point is my computer is a year and a half old, inexpensive, and still hangs with the best of them... unless your 7200 can really compare with today's machines as far as performance, no points for you!

Mac users have no need to upgrade. Two points for me.
Originally posted by UnixMac
I have upgraded my drives for the PowerMac to a RAID config, I also upgraded my graphics card to a Radeon 8500...
:confused: Apparently they do... no points for you!

You should get around the Mac sites more. Two points for me for your lie. :)
Bah, show me some sites and I will be the judge... either way, it still isn't anything you can do that I can't, so once again, no points!

I do LAN parties, and I win a LOT over my PC brothers.
Point to me.
Do you play CS? Battlefield 1942? You won't beat me or my friends :D

Point to me. I have a four-button mouse. (And I guess a "state-of-the-art" scrollwheel... whatever that is.
Good man, but that is not an Apple standard... I am stuck with the horrid one button mice when I use the Macs at work :mad:

Buy a Mac... you won't be sorry.
Why, when there is no reason to get one(other than deplete my checking account)?

UnixMac-
1. Welp, I paid for a great system and I got one :p

2. Unless OS X spits out candy from the zip drive while giving me a bj, I doubt I'll be losing sleep over not having it...

3. You must be very lenient on your machine then... curious, what programs do you regularly run on it?

4. Again, I wonder what you use your computer for... there are some times I find the need for a certain program to do some miscellaneous task, and I'm always able to find one for it...

5. Just getting into those games huh? Hmmm...

6. The motherboard, CPU and OS for a start :D

7. "Good enough" is something Mac users are used to...

8. Haha, no they don't, unless you go to LAN parties where everyone plays Doom 1 on their Pentium 166's, and you show up with your $2000 1GHz G4, then sure they'd have reason to be impressed... otherwise you're a damned liar, because if me and my friends were at a LAN party and someone walked in with a Mac, we'd be laughing our asses off...

Originally posted by edesignuk

This is a Mac forum, it's hard to believe you bothered to register just so that you could post this as your one and only post ever on these boards.....how sad.
Sorry, but I saw some things said at this site that were just begging to be responded to... this is my way of helping to make the world a better place :)

[Ziggyzee]

Wow, I'm impressed! You can play games on your PC, wow!!!

I had the same mindset about Mac users. I used to laugh at people buying macs. I really don't think I was wrong thinking that years ago.

But today, I laugh at people buying pc clones especially anything with an amd chip.(unless all you want to do is play games).

That was my last straw. My last pc with an amd chip at 1ghz was crap.

Granted I have only had my mac for about a week and still don't know all the ins and outs, but, I love it!

I just finished a project in 2 days that would have taken 4 days and 7 restarts on my pc. That's one reason I love it in the week I have owned it. I'm sure more to follow.

[Les Kern]

Originally posted by Ziggyzee
Wow, I'm impressed! You can play games on your PC, wow!!!

I just finished a project in 2 days that would have taken 4 days and 7 restarts on my pc. That's one reason I love it in the week I have owned it. I'm sure more to follow.

By golly, you've GOT it! In two simple sentences you've summed up the reason why most productive people own a Mac, and it's why my PC's gather dust. Games, although fun, are just diversions and not a way of life... at least for me.
My PC brothers never laugh at me during a LAN because, well, we are adults, and no, they don't make BF1942 for the Mac. We play games that are available on both platforms like UR tourney, Ghost Recon and Allied Assualt. After that's over and we go home, I get work done. It's nice to know there is a difference between upgrades to merely play games, and enhancements. Macs don't necessarily need these things to run PS7.0, but it does speed it up. So I was wrong and so was he. But my old 7200 can indeed run what I need it to run. So why did I buy a new G4 tower? The SuperDrive and OSX. The new X was hard when I beta tested 10.0, and I thought I'd never switch, and actually went back and forth several times... but Jag has it going.
It was asked what I run normally. A short list:
PhotoShop 7.0
Quark 5
GoLive 6
EtherPeek (I'm a sysadmin)
Flash MX
Fireworks
Bryce 5
Acrobat Pro
Final Cut Pro 3.0
MS Office v.x (The best MS product ever, in my humble opinion. If it wasn't for those macro viruses...)
OmniGraffle (to make sense of a complicated concept)
But know what? This whole subject is taking me back to what I said I'd never do, and that's argue hard in the PC/Mac question. So I say goodbye, back to my world of productivity and vision. Valclav Havel once said:" Embrace those who seek the truth, run from those who have found it".

[PC Clone]

Ziggyzee- What project are you speaking of? I have an AMD 1GHz machine and I love it... I find it funny that Mac users always use the excuse that "My PC crashed every day, and my screen would flash and make scary noises, while demom imps jumped out of my monitor... " Honestly, if PCs were as unreliable as you people make it out to be our world would be falling apart... everyone uses PCs...

Les Kern- well I still don't see a reason to buy a Mac when you can build and customize a faster PC for less... unless of course you get one of those possesed PCs :rolleyes: But to each his own I suppose...

[Ziggyzee]

I'm not going to start my thing is better than yours, and besides, you wouldn't understand what I do.

All I know is my pc with the amd chip sucks for anything but games.

[vniow]

This makes me proudest of all. (http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html)

And guys, ignore the obvious troll above. Don't give him the satisfaction.http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/veronica/rolleyes.gif

There are plenty of bi-platform users here that can point out the advantages and disadvantages of each, no need for zealotry (on both sides) here.

[edesignuk]

Originally posted by edvniow
This makes me proudest of all. (http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html)

Intel can kiss my a$$, appart from my origional P120 PC I have never bought Intel, and I defiantly won't be now.
Originally posted by edvniow
And guys, ignore the obvious troll above. Don't give him the satisfaction.

Heh! Way ahead of you, all I see of his posts now is this! ;) :D :p

[UnixMac]

Originally posted by PC Clone


UnixMac-
1. Welp, I paid for a great system and I got one :p

2. Unless OS X spits out candy from the zip drive while giving me a bj, I doubt I'll be losing sleep over not having it...

3. You must be very lenient on your machine then... curious, what programs do you regularly run on it?

4. Again, I wonder what you use your computer for... there are some times I find the need for a certain program to do some miscellaneous task, and I'm always able to find one for it...

5. Just getting into those games huh? Hmmm...

6. The motherboard, CPU and OS for a start :D

7. "Good enough" is something Mac users are used to...

8. Haha, no they don't, unless you go to LAN parties where everyone plays Doom 1 on their Pentium 166's, and you show up with your $2000 1GHz G4, then sure they'd have reason to be impressed... otherwise you're a damned liar, because if me and my friends were at a LAN party and someone walked in with a Mac, we'd be laughing our asses off...


Sorry, but I saw some things said at this site that were just begging to be responded to... this is my way of helping to make the world a better place :)

1. I know people who buy their cloths at Wal-Mart, their Coffee at Dunken Donuts, and their cars from the local Buick dealer and they all think they have great taste too. :p

2. Windows XP an off shoot of DOS is not worthy of being even compared to OS X, a full blown Unix based OS (end of discussion).

3. Adobe Photoshop/Illustrator/ImageReady
Cinema 4D XL
Final Cut Pro 3
Cleaner 6 (for MPEG Encoding)
DVD Studio Pro
Various 3D Games based on the latest Quake Engine
M$ Office
Nikon View 5 / Photo Editor
Mathematica (limited user version)
various Unix apps downloaded for FREE!

4. See above

5. No, I just havn't been into games as much these days with all the fun I'm having with DV and MP3 encoding at speed twice as fast as you.

6. I am not a computer engineer, nor do I want to be... I want a computer that works with out maintenance and tweaks.

7. If I didn't think that a Mac was good enough, I would likely get a Sun or CGI machine before I ever got a PeeCee... again Windoze sucks! I used PC from 1983-2000... enough!

8. YES THEY DO... I know this and nothing you say can change it.

ALSO....PC Clone... go here to see why my $3000+ PowerBook kicks your PC laptops' a$$..


good evening.PowerBookG4 vs. PC Laptops (http://www.infoworld.com/articles/pl/xml/02/12/16/021216plpowerbook.xml)

[Les Kern]

Originally posted by PC Clone
I still don't see a reason to buy a Mac when you can build and customize a faster PC for less... unless of course you get one of those possesed PCs :rolleyes: But to each his own I suppose...

I whole-heartily agree that you can get a MUCH faster (in some things) PC for a lot less money, but I always go back to my history in working with both beastly machines. I has much more to do with TOC than anything. You don't know me, but a hell of a lot of water has flowed under this bridge, and the things I have seen/experienced could fill volumes. AM I a genius? Far from it, but I know what I know. Just today a good friend and 20-year PC user lost XP completely to a virus that the latest build missed. (He bought a G4 last month and says he gets more done on it than the PC because of the time dealing with oddities) Or the time I had a lab of 30 PC's that took 4,000.00 AND the vendor to come out to get 20 of them to print. The other 10 did much later, after 15 of the original stopped printing. Or the time another 15-year PC friend spent 4 HOURS trying to get a video card to work that was recommended by the vendor. How ridiculous is THAT? I could go on and on, as these were hardly sporatic incidences. So I guess my point is this: If Microsoft had a better, more stable OS that didn't intefere with my life, I'm sure I'd be a PC user. But the history just isn't there. I play games on occasion, so that's a non-issue. One might argue that I might be a computer idiot, and don't know jack and that's the reason I've had the problems. Fair enough, but not true I assure you. And Mac are just fun to use too. I have a 1.2Ghz Omnibook that has XP Professional. It's horrible. Just try adding any one of my 50 network lasers. XP is NOT fun. (But I AM intrigued by .net technology). Finally, to each his/her own. Use what you use, I use what I use. Ah, bliss! I am back in my "who cares what computer anybody uses" mode and the emotional dead-end of the PC/Mac "war". Later friend.

[janey]

Jaguar. The only reason why I switched back to a Mac-Jaguar. So nice, so beautiful, Steve, you sure did a great job this time! But I also feel proud of owning other computers, not just my Macs. They are not the only computers on earth and I think that Linux is just as good (except for the gooey part). The downside of owning a Mac however, is that Mac users are the minority and everyone thinks that your Mac is so exotic and beautiful. In one hour I got asked out by 4 different geeks because of my TiBook.

[benixau]

wanna go out??


lol. Macs are always better. I tryed to crash my Jag mac by running 30 apps and working 10 simultaneously. All that happened is that the CPUs were maxed. My fan didnt even speed up from its usual DP 867 hum.

NO, i repeat NO pc can match that sort of stability. when i quit the apps etc everyhting was normal. no crashes of OS, or software (inc. MS Office+MSN!!!).

oh and did i mention that even in finder i had NO, i again repeat, NO lag. full speed in a 2000 folder directory.

<sarcasm>yay my XP PC cant even open IE 6 or explorer (is there a difference??) cause it has a bug after ONE week and it is behind a firewall. i am happy, it was two days before.</sarcasm>


to me, there is no competition. actually to everyone here (except pc clone) there is no competition.

[PC Clone]

Originally posted by edesignuk

Heh! Way ahead of you, all I see of his posts now is this! ;) :D :p
Typical Fruit(Mac user), always wants to hide from anything remotely intimidating... I am not a "troll"... I didn't come on here yelling obscenities, flaming random posters or making irrelevant posts... I simply came to debate the superiority of PCs in a heavily biased enviroment, treating everyone with respect...

Unix-
1. :rolleyes: Fine then, would you consider a fast, reliable, inexpensive machine in which you have access to pretty much any program you want, can navigate effortlessely through the OS, is easily upgradeable, easily customizable, and just plain kicks ass, a good computer? If you answered yes, then you just described my PC...
2. Please tell me why your OS is supoerior to mine, without lying or blantantly exagerating...
3 and 4. Hmm... all programs my PC can easily run... tell me again, how much was your G4?
5. Ha, give me the money you spent on your Apple and I can have a machine built that'll blow you away...
6. Fair enough... I, however, like learning as much about PCs as I can, especially this day and age...
7. "PeeCee"... how cute... and no Windows does not suck otherwise 90% of the computers running our world wouldn't be operating with it!
8. *puts "silly glasses" on* Hey, PC users DO envy Macs!*takes glasses off and snaps back to reality* Did you ever think maybe they were just interested in your groovy looking case rather than actually caring about what was inside? Aesthetics have always been Apple's #1 marketing tool...

And I don't have a laptop, so I could care less what your powerbook can do... all I know is it wouldn't hold a candle to an equally priced PC...

Les- ok bud, fair enough... sometimes I wish me and my buds could take a look at you Apple guys' computers that you claim never seem to work... cuz like I said, XP Pro has worked great for me and everyone I know who has it...

benixau- http://www.geocities.com/ogmka81/owned.txt
No crash, no fan acceleration, only slowdown...

[edesignuk]

Originally Posted by PC Clone
Typical Fruit(Mac user), always wants to hide from anything remotely intimidating

Not hiding, ignoring, I'd rather not read your ramblings.
I, like a lot of other Mac users on these boards also have a PC. I myself have a 1.4Ghz AMD, 512Mb DDR home built system with XP Pro. I also have a box running W2K Server as my file server, a box running W2K Advanced Server which is my local domain and DNS server. So as you can see I am not in any way ignorant of the windows world, I was using it long before I used a Mac and still am using it to this day, in fact my line of work is in PC desktop support both hardware and software.
But since I 'discovered' Mac I have used it more and more over my PC with the releases of 10.1, then the latest (and fastest) 10.2, and I for one only use my XP box when I have too (KaZaA!). Mac OS X is a FAR superior OS, you can see from the leaked bits of m$ longhorn that they are trying to copy the smooth graphics of the Aqua interface (e.g. 'genie' effect when shrinking windows).
XP Pro IMO is M$ best, most stable OS so far, but, with OS X's UNIX routes it is still much more stable, easier and more pleasent to get along with.

Of course you are entitled to your opinion as am I. But I'm afraid I still don't seethe point of you being here just to stir thing up....it's pointless.

Peace :)

[UnixMac]

PC clone, read this post carefully, cause I don't want to have to say any of this again. I respect your wanting to debate, and you are being pretty cool about the response you're getting, now read carefully before you keep asking why mac?

I, like many here have a lot of windows experience.. about 12 years worth. I was one of the original PC users back in 83 when I was running a BBS out of the bay area that got 50+ calls a day with my 1200baud hayes modem... I was using DOS 3.1 and various MS apps before many of the guys you go to LAN parties were born. So I don't need lectures on the abilities of the PC platform. I simply got fed up with Windows..... the hardware on a PC is much the same as a Mac.. PCI, DDR, AGP, USB, IE1394, 802.11B..... the only propriatary mac hardware is the DVI screen connection which is superior to your VGA/XGA connection anyway.

The thing you need to understand is that people who use computers for serious stuff (read: not games) need a system that runs stable. While 90% of people use PC (because it's cheaper, and runs many cheap home apps)...kinda like a Chevy is for the massses, and a BMW is for the elite.

People in the "back office" of design/graphics/production companies use Mac 90% of the time because it is STABLE..... not always faster, though in many apps a duel 1.25 G4 is faster than any P4, but just more stable. A company called Autodesk has a product sold under their label Discreet, its called cleaner 6, they also have a cleaner 5 for windows.. but I am read in a press release that they sell the Mac version at a ratio of 4 to 1 vs the PC version, they also make high end editor, it's called Smoke and it is the top of the line DV edit system, costs more than $260,000... guess what platform it almost always runs on? Unix... not Windows 2000... OS X is Unix, and at only 2 years old, it already has 3000 commercial apps available, and more come every day. Read more about Unix and Smoke here: http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/2001/07_jul/reviews/smoke_review.htm

For example, if you were to try to encode a 90 minute DV into mpeg2 on a PC, you will likely have a crash that will cause you to have to restart.... that has been demonstrated over and over.. In a Mac... its a one time job... and it's usually faster.

Also you want to know why my OS is better than your OS (and this is what it boils down to for me, OS)... well consider this:

Large computer systems that run Airline reservations systems, Bank data centers, DOD computers, the internet it's self, all run on Unix... either BSD, AT&T, HPUX, Solaris.... they are all a twist on the same system... well Mac OS X is a BSD unix (4.4 lite).

Now ask yourself, if the worlds largest supercomputers depend on Unix for up time and not Windows 2000 or NT (which share the same Kernel as XP).. which OS is more stable?

There are NO "serious" computers that are mission critical running windows in corporate america... maybe smaller companies that can't afford Sun, IBM or HP mainframes/Servers do, but the rest use Unix. Yes, there are amature projects where people strung togther a bunch of PC's into a large processor grouping, but large companies don't depend on that kind of set up to run.

Windows machines are great home computers and great game platforms (like an X-box)... but they are not mature enough for me to run a $1000 app to edit my DV, let alone a professional.

Finally, I don't hear any clamoring from Mac users to port windows to the Mac... but there are more than 100,000 people who signed a petition to port OS X to the PC... hmmm..

:cool:

[Ziggyzee]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by UnixMac
For example, if you were to try to encode a 90 minute DV into mpeg2 on a PC, you will likely have a crash that will cause you to have to restart.... that has been demonstrated over and over.. In a Mac... its a one time job... and it's usually faster.[QUOTE]

Just one restart? This is why I use a Mac.

Great Post.

[Zion Grail]

Well said, Unix Mac!

Like many here, I have experience in Windows and Linux.

I still run a PC for games. Gotta love Command & Conquer.

However, I realized I needed a laptop for school, since I commute and need something to code on (as the open labs are very insufficient). I had always enjoyed fooling and tweaking with my PC, but that also always led to problems. I wanted something that would do what I ask without fuss, and that I would never need to "tweak". I wanted something that would be stable and reliable, no matter what. Even Windows XP Pro, which I run on my PC, still gives me trouble from time to time. It's always something. If it's not a crash, it's a disconnect. If not that, it's a program crash. If not that, a line of Java that should work and does on other PCs does not. It's just always something.

So, I thought I may get a laptop with Linux on it. Then I remembered I spent 10 times as much time keeping that configured and running as I did on Win XP.

Then a friend showed me her laptop. It was an iBook. It was beautiful. So I looked into the Mac.

Mac OS X. Unix core. Superb ease of use. All the programs I need. Awesome compatability with other hardware. The fact that it works, and there isn't something. It works!

Then I saw the (Ti) PowerBook. G4 CPU. Lots of RAM. Super-thin. Titanium cover. 15" (and fantastic-looking) screen.

I only got my PowerBook G4 a few days ago, and I'm already in love with it. I was highly skeptical, but it's already become my main machine.

(The next paragraph and sentence sums up my response to the thread.)

It was last night, looking at the awesome "Flurry" screensave that it hit me: this machine is way ahead of it's time. It's like a computer from the year 2012. Seriously. The case, the screen, the power, ease of use. It all added up. This is what computers should be. My Mac is like no PC - it's much better.

I'm just absolutely in love with my new Mac.

[UnixMac]

Originally posted by Zion Grail

It was last night, looking at the awesome "Flurry" screensave that it hit me: this machine is way ahead of it's time. It's like a computer from the year 2012. Seriously. The case, the screen, the power, ease of use. It all added up. This is what computers should be. My Mac is like no PC - it's much better.

I'm just absolutely in love with my new Mac.

Im am totally in love with my Ti Gigabook.

It's just like the Chevy / BMW or Walmart / Nordstrom comparison I used above.

Mac's are just more "refined" and well engineered.

[PC Clone]

You really shouldn't have typed all that out, because I nor you can prove nor negate exactly how many companies use which OS... and um, today's games are one of the most system dependant programs you will run on a computer... you need a powerful CPU, you need a good hard drive, you need all your memory, you need stability... if you have a system that's optimized for gaming you basically have a system optimized for damn near anything...

Also:
http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/2002/11_nov/reviews/cw_macvspciii.htm
http://www.aceshardware.com/read.jsp?id=50000333
http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/2002/05_may/features/cw_aeshowdown.htm
And just for fun:
http://drunkgamers.com/switch0001.shtml
http://www.ubergeek.tv/switchback/

[Xero]

heres the biggest reason im proud of owning my new 1ghz TiPB...

about 20min ago, my PC ATE, [yes chewed to peices and never to be found again], A bunch of unsaved drum samples that i had been designing for around 2 hours. yes i know i should have saved them frequently, but that doesnt mean they should just dissapear. :rolleyes: and the best part, is that this program [cool edit pro 2] is supposed to RESTORE unsaved work when it crashes, but apparently it decided itd rather not save my work this tim 'round, oye!

i know that my programs in OSX dont have that amount of jurisdiction over themselves to just decide to up and quite. OSX is stable as hell and i cant be happier about that.

the more i use my PC, the more i realize, that the majority of stuff i do just to get things working properly, the average user would never even think of. THATS why i dislike pc's more and more every day, and thats why my PC is becoming a rather large expensive gaming unit. :rolleyes: again, OYE!

[Zion Grail]

Agreed!

My plan right now is to pay off what I owe on my credit card, and use what I make (and don't spend on gas and PowerBook payments) to save for an iPod and other such things. I've wanted "in" on the "digital lifestyle" since the Rio MP3 player. The first one. (And I got that one, too.) Well, now I'm determined to make it happen. And my PowerBook will be right in the center of it.

It's too bad I couldn't afford the 1Ghz PowerBook. But my 867Mhz Titanium PowerBook is still an awesome machine!!

[Xero]

Originally posted by PC Clone
... if you have a system that's optimized for gaming you basically have a system optimized for damn near anything...


im sorry but this is completely untrue. and its basically proven untrue by the exact posts that your arguing with: if that IS true, then how come a UNIX system isnt the gaming platform of choice? console games are 99% rock solid in stability, so how come gaming consoles arent used for servers? i know that sounds silly, but the point is that all these things are optimized for something: consoles for gaming, UNIX, solaris etc... for mainframes and server oriented tasks. the stability of a video game on a PC has very little to do with the stability of every day apps or even things like audio/video on the same PC. PC gaming is totally dependant on Direct X drivers, and direct x little or no say in how stable your non-gaming programs run.

[PC Clone]

^Well my point mainly is that a PC gamer looking to optimize his system is going to look for the best RAM, the best mobo, the best CPU, the best HD, best OS, etc... pretty much everything about the computer will have to be of great quality...

[Xero]

exactly, of great quality for -gaming-. serious 3d- designers arent going to go out and buy the latest nvidia card for there work, it just doesnt happen. and i beleive the majority of people here are agreeing that PC's are much better for gaming. so its settled then? :P

[UnixMac]

PC,

SGI has machines that run 8 MIPS 800mhz cpu's and cost in the 6 figures, but they can't run QIII at 200fps.... are they inferior for graphics production?

Sun, 8 X UltraSparcIII.... same thing...

Mac is just a low budget version of the above, while PC is just a toy for gamers.

Games are never written on a Mac, then ported to a PC, they are written for single processor PC's using direct X drivers..... later, if they are popular, they are ported (at a low budget) to Open GL and MAC....but they are not Altivec coded (too costly) and not multithreaded for MP macs... so how can a 1Ghz G4 pump out enough triangles to compete with a P4?? Now if they were to code the games right they, you might be quite impressed with the result, but they would end up costing $300 a piece... I personally don't care about that because I can buy a Dell for $800 to play games.

I care about Cinema 4D XL, Final Cut Pro, and Cleaner 6 running fast and stable.... and on a Mac, they do.

Now lets close this subject once and for all and prove that they only reason the mac shows slower speed to PC is poorly coded software: go here and look around... specifically look at the "ALL" column of the PowerPC G4 and the same column in the AMD and P4 "ALL" colums... this is the Gflops of the processor...the absolute power of the chip.

fastest AMD 2400mhz Palomino = 18.95Gflops
Available AMD 2200mhz = 14.9Gflops

fastest P4 3140mhz = 12.15Gflops

fastest G4 1600mhz = 16.9Gflops
Available G4 1259mhz = 13.12Gflops

A typical PowerMac has 2 G4's so that's 26.24Gflops

end of discussion

CPU Speeds on Distributed.net (http://n0cgi.distributed.net/speed/)

[PC Clone]

The links I posted above are doing benchmarks on Photoshop and other Adobe programs... wasn't Photoshop originally made FOR the Mac?

Damnit stop changing your posts on me... and stop saying end of discussion when it's obviously not...

And benchmarks don't lie...

[UnixMac]

see my above post again, I edited in some info that will end this (hopefully)

BTW... this is a direct quote from one of your links....acehardware...

"The dual Apple PowerMac G4 performs similar to the single 2.4 GHz Pentium 4 Xeon, which is actually not bad at all. Notice that the second Xeon processor boosts the rendering performance by only 18%. This indicates that this kind of operation in Adobe Premiere benefits only slightly from a second processor. A single G4+ 1.25 GHz should perform more or less like a 1.8-2.0 GHz Pentium 4. This is highly hypothetical, but a 0.13µ G4+ might be rather competitive with the current Pentium 4 if the clockspeed were sufficiently high. So, while I am personally not overwhelmed, the G4+ is a rather potent CPU."

[benixau]

Originally posted by PC Clone
wasn't Photoshop originally made FOR the Mac?

and so was ms office. in those days it was made for mac and then ported to pc. but then steve 'left' apple.

until MacBU, office was made for windblows and ported to mac in a crappy incarnation. Now office is made totaly seperate (bar common document format code) with the MacBU coding entirelly for mac with a feature list from the pc guys to make sure that they at least match. I dont see transparent charts on excel 2002!!

pc clone, if your pc didnt slow down then it could be because you have alot of ram, a very fast cpu (>2.0Ghz) or a very fast HDD.

i did my comparisons on the following machines:

Spec (PC : Mac)

CPU (AMD XP 1800+ : DP 867)
RAM (256 PC2100 : 256 PC 2100)
HDD ATA-100 (40GB 7200rpm 8MB cache : 80GB 7200rpm 2MB cache)
Video (GF2MX 32DDR : GF4MX 32DDR)
Sound (AC'97 : built-in)
OS (WinXP Pro : OS X 10.2.2)


As you can see these machines are a fairly even match considering that i am using an <sarcasm> inferior </sarcsm> platform.


PS. Donwload, install and run moby dock (http://www.modydock.tk) and run your mouse from one side to another. you will watch your CPU usage go to 100% mine barely moves.

[PC Clone]

Unix- that's cool, I never said Apple's were trash... however in all the benchmarks I have seen Apples are never at the top...

benixau- my PC did slow down, but that's all it did... no crash... and I have a relatively humble 1GHz Athlon with 512MB of PC100 RAM, as you can see in my specs...
And what comparisons are you speaking of?
Also, that link didn't work... I can't find anywhere to download that Moby Dock program... what is it for?

Here's the conclusion from the aceshardware benchmarking article:

Conclusion

It is a pity of course that we couldn't test the PowerMac for more than a few hours. However, if you combine our findings with those of Digital Video Editing (here and here), we can get an idea how the PowerMacs compare to the Pentium 4 and Athlon CPUs out there. Digital Video Editing conducted tests on Adobe Effects and this piece of software is one of the more SSE-2 optimized applications available. In this case, a dual 1.25 GHz G4 is not even able to match a 2.53 GHz Pentium 4 and performed like a 2 GHz - 2.4 GHz Pentium 4. Lightwave shows us the best case for the dual G4: it benefits a lot from the second processor and is well optimized for the G4 too.


Basically, the 1.25 GHz dual G4 PowerMac is slower than most high end PCs (including single-processor ones), but it is not totally defenseless. In multi-threaded content creation applications, it can perform like a 2.2 GHz Pentium 4 and even a 3.06 GHz one. Considering that Content Creation is still the main reason why people buy Macs, this isn't bad at all. And while it may seem trivial to some, it must be said that the Apple PowerMac does feature a very nice system chassis that provides easy access to components.

Still, Apple needs a 0.13 micron chip soon, as a PowerMac is a lot more expensive than a typical OEM PC. Dell's 3.06 GHz Pentium 4 system is about $600 less expensive than the dual 1.25 GHz PowerMac. We also did a quick comparison between an almost perfectly similar equipped Dell dual 2.4 GHz Pentium 4 Xeon and Apple dual 1.25 GHz PowerMac G4 and found out that the Dell is still 500 to 600 Euros cheaper in Europe, while it outperforms the Apple in all content creation tasks. Of course, those simply seeking a PowerPC-based system that does not neccessarily run MacOS and does not cost a lot of money might look to the recently announced PowerPC-based ATX "Teron" motherboard.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by PC Clone
The links I posted above are doing benchmarks on Photoshop and other Adobe programs... wasn't Photoshop originally made FOR the Mac?

Damnit stop changing your posts on me... and stop saying end of discussion when it's obviously not...

And benchmarks don't lie...

they may not lie, but they certainly prevaricate. don't ever assume a benchmark is final. there is always a flaw in a benchmark, especially a cross platform one.

you all have been talking about optimization of "ports" and the huge impact that has on benchmarking speed. for instance, our latest OpenGL 1.4 in the recent 10.2.3 update. i got decent system wide performance increases just from that.

photoshop benchmarks are bull. i have done enough comparing between my GHz tibook and my friend's 2 GHz P4 to know that, hey, some of those renders go OVER 2 times as fast on mine than his. and on some, his beats mine by a bit, sometimes by a lot. it all depends on the algorithms and how they interact with the processor... do you know how many filters there are in PS? and do you know how many of them the benchmarks you looked at tested?

Apple's own photoshop testing indicates that DP G4's are much faster than the P4. much like a tobacco company's tests on tobacco's effect on the human body are much less morbid than tests done by the DEA or whoever does them. Information is always twisted by bias, particularly in the mac-PC discussion, so why can't we all stick with our own machines? PC Clone, i think you really ought to go argue about how cool your 800$ AMD is with some PC slash-dotters... they might be out of your league, but it's really senseless to be posting on this forum if you don't like macs. this is not a mac bashing forum, i don't think. there are plenty on the net, i'm sure, and you can browse the net with your nice broadband and good ol' IE 6 and find one to suit your appetite. not that you haven't been one of the more civil mac-bashers, but, please, not here.

[PC Clone]

I only bash in response to the PC bashing I've seen here... and also, I don't base everything on one benchmark, but several, and I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find more... my point is, fine, if you like Macs because of the OS interface and the neat looking products and the simplicity of the programs, that's your taste... but don't go bashing PCs and PC users, because you are not better than us...

Also Shadowfax, where have I seen your name before?

[benixau]

i am in no way (yet) attacking the PC platform. I am attacking the way its main operating system utilises it.

And as for a non-MacOS ppc computer, i know they exist.

And here is a real link to moby dock (htttp://www.mobydock.tk). it is a program that gives win 2k/xp machines a dock.

[Les Kern]

Originally posted by PC Clone
Les- ok bud, fair enough... sometimes I wish me and my buds could take a look at you Apple guys' computers that you claim never seem to work... cuz like I said, XP Pro has worked great for me and everyone I know who has it...


Great screen shot. I need to address the "bashing" issue. I never do, at least intentionally. It's just that the vast history I have has guided me to the Mac as my platform of choice. I'm actually thinking of getting the new 3ghz Dell in a few months. Why? Like I said "Embrace those who seek the truth. Run form those who have found it". Let's all use our computer of choice and make history. And I apologize to anyone who felt I was ever bashing. To be fair I DO have 2 WIN2000 servers that have never failed. As a matter of fact I havn't rebooted them in a year! My "possesed" PC's? Gone. While any individual PC can run perfectly, my experience shows that in bulk, they never do. I am in charge of 750 machines. Only 30 of them are PC's now. The rest run from 333iMacs to G4 towers to Xserves. Those 30 PC's take as much of my resources as all the Macs combined. So going back to the reason for this thread, I'm proud I use a Mac because now I have TIME to be! :)

[UnixMac]

PC clone...

in a nut shell, many of us are former/current wintel users, we are not all just guys who haven't had the chance to experience the beauty of Microsoft..

That said, there are uses for all types of computers... if you are looking for an all around home computer and a game platform, no one here will tell you a Mac at twice the price is the way to go... but if you are doing publishing, graphics rendering, DV... the pro's usually go with Mac.. it's just more reliable.

As for why the benchmarks always show the mac lagging... just read the acehardware paragraph you posted...

Even at 1.25Ghz, the G4 is a powerful chip, most software out there is just no optimized that well for it, this is too bad because it would really shine.
Moto is still using a .18 micron process for the G4, and the speed is limited by that.... a .13micron chip is around the corner and that will likely run at up to 2.2Ghz.... take that and combine it with multi-processor based Mac/OS X systems and the gap wintel will once again be playing catch up.. because the P4 is not going to be doing 5Ghz anytime soon.

This battle will pick up with the 64bit chips comming out soon.... gone will be the 32bit OS and the clock speed will go back down to earth with it.. But the computers will do a lot more.

Just look the latest IBM 970 chip (rumored to be the G5).... it's an itanium killer.

[Prom1]

First off I'd like to state that,for me, I'm still a Windows machine user, however I've also used a PowerMac G4 733Mhz QuickSilver before I tried overclocking it to death!

Now in my limited time (less than 1year) using OS X (10.1.5) I absolutely fell in love with the Mac OS X and hardware platform. This kind of emotion was never felt by me on any Windows machine.Y?

I had a hilarious and yet "heated" arguement with my longtime friendover PC's and Mac's. We argued just like everyone else over the vast software titles a PC user has access to and acquiring them for free over FTP/IRC/NiRC/MiRC channels. He mentioned that I'd be lucky to find any Mac related "iRC" channels over the net and if I did there might be 3 people their.......turns out he actually was right! LOL! less than 10 was found and the most found in any was actually 4 users of which only 1 person was active (answered my post in 49Hours). Advantage PC. When I finally bought my PowerMac I was glad that I PAID for software and got FULL support from the software company had I had any questions or needed technical support! Hence without paying for software comes the need of "iRC" internet channels for people not just to STEAL software but also get support for using it when needed.

Of the many arguements and discussions that my friends have it seems that there is always a race to see WHOM paid less for a part or a whole PC, getting the latest and greatest part to run the latest and greatest PC game and what the coolest tweak was!

I grew up all my life here in Toronto, Canada. learned about and used computers first on a Commodore PET originally in 2 months then my school upgraded to Apples (Orignal MacIntosh's and IIc's) from grade 4-8. In high school and in the accounting world it seems that PCs are the norm and rain supreme.

A revelation dawned upon me when I used the PowerMac last year. Computers where meant to assist the human mind in creativity and in computational analysis. Since then, the became a form of entertainment, and over the last 12 years on the PC side people had to adjust to how their computers worked (using apps--bugs/upgrading--hardware conflicts with the OS and apps/gaming--again OS conflicts/support and installing patches). And yet when I started using the Mac it only took me 2 days to honestly navigate through the OS, become highly productive in research and working on college assignments. I realized that the Mac was made to adjust to ME!!!!

For me, Y? Mac over PC? Games, thats what my PS2 is for and my kids use it more than me (though I do hope Americas Army is ported soon!). Versatility of Features in Office X, specifically the added features that IE, Word, and Excel have that are not available for the PC versions and all PC version features are available on the Mac. How even though CPU speed maybe faster on the PC side, the total system performance is much better on a MAC. And lastly and most importantly, Intel's 64-bit chip isnt 32-bit code compatible. Although AMD's SledgeHammers 64-bit chip will be..........Using an inferior Windows XP Pro on it will not compare to using a G4 CPU using OS X. What I mean is that OS X is a true MULTI-TASKING OS......it doesnt matter if Adobe,MS or any software company creates an application for OS X that doesnt natively support multiple processors, the OS X WILL give the application that added bonus of operating on multiple CPU's like it was coded to do so--even if the app wasnt originally!

UnixMac good arguements along with PC Clone.
Les Kern I really love that quote and hope that you dont mind if I use it!!!!!

Valclav Havel once said:" Embrace those who seek the truth, run from those who have found it".

[Les Kern]

Originally posted by Prom1
I really love that quote and hope that you dont mind if I use it!!!!!

Don't use my paraphrase. The real one is "Keep the company of those who
seek the truth, and run from those who have found it." -Vaclav Havel (pretty amazing man)
I particularly like it because, as I grow older, I see the danger in all types of intolerant fundamentalism; whether it's politics, religion, or... PC/Mac wars. :)
Liked your story. I guess the one good thing that comes out of all this is that there is competition to see who can come up with the coolest most useful stuff, thereby advancing the lot of all. Long live the war!
Still, I am proud to use a Mac. Hey, I tried to do a Windows update on my 1.2Ghz OmniBook... it failed every single time I tried, and gave me really odd cryptic messages trying to explain why. There's ANOTHER reason I'm proud. Mac updates are flawless.

[PC Clone]

Well you all seem to have your reasons for using a Mac so I can't fault you for that, however I can't relate to your horror stories of using PCs... I also can't understand your affinity for OSX... I've never operated a Mac using OSX but it doesn't look too different from any other OS I've operated... I've never had trouble with XP and am even sometimes overwhelmed by how much I can actually do with it... at first I thought most Mac users were computer illiterate, but some of you seem to know your stuff... there seems to be no reason you should have all these problems with Windows, especially with the resources you have on the internet that can help... but to each his own... I look foward to someday using this OSX and finding out what all the fuss is about...

benixau- still doesn't work... what exactly is a dock anyway?

[benixau]

go to www.apple.com/macosx and check it out. It is a more functional, graphically better version of the taskbar.

if you want to install (maybe run it too?) you should be an administrator or at least a power user.

PC Clone, if you want more help getting it pm me and i will email it to you. you must have Win2k Pro or XP (Pro?) because it uses transparency.

[PC Clone]

Oh that thing... isn't it basically the same as the Quick Launch?

[Moxiemike]

Here's my .02, and it will be a quick one, since its nice here and I wanna grab some photos. :D

Young littler rice boys buy honda civic and put spoliers on them, lower them, put bigger exhausts and trick out the engines. What does that accomplish? It gets them an extra 25hp, upping the ante a slight bit.

It makes their honda faster on a straightaway but have you ever tried rally racing in one??? It's like riding a pot of mashed potatoes on wheels. You get thrown back and forth due to the general poor handling that affects the ol' honda.

A BMW, Saab, Audi or other "low marketshare" machine might lack the acceleration of the honda, but it excels in the curves, and acctually holds up just fine with the honda in a straightaway. Maybe even beats it. :) It's just that the rice boy thinks the spoiler adds 10mph to his car and that the Saab or Beemer is a "yuppie old man's" car.

Sure, you pay more of a premium, but you get a car where attention has been paid to the details...

Make sense pc clone? I bet you have or want a tricked out civic. Me? I'm buying a Saab 9-3. And I'll toast yer rear any day. :)

Just my like DP1000. I know how to use it. baby.

I really still wanna do this "analogy" with ***** sizes. teehee

[zarathustra]

The fact that I could come up with the cash to pay for it.

[Prom1]

Thanks Les glad you enjoyed my story.
About the paraphrase....even though I really like it and feel the same way about it as you as I continue to grow I will respect your request :( right after this post!

PC Clone...........The best way I can explain all the fuss of owning and using an Apple computer is this: when you buy a car or a cellphone for that matter would it not make sense to buy a product that is created, assembled and OS written from just 1 company (No matter how monopolistic that sounds)? Motorola cellphones although nice looking good quality the operating system of the last 7 in the past 3 years is highly glitchy compared to the top 2 manufactures and sales companies -- Nokia and Ericsson/SonyEricsson (of witch also produce the largest # and most widely used Cell Sites & software on which GSM/GPRS/EDGE/CDMA2000/UTMS networks operate on). Also when you purchase specific brands of Ford or Chevrolet/Pontiac cars you tend to get that "Clone" look and feel that always isnt what the original can provide --Ford Probe GT vs Mitsubishi Eclipse vs Eagle Talon AWD were all produced using 3 engines and platforms originally from Mitsubishi. Also the Chevy Cavelier and Pontiac Sunbird/Sunfire are basically the same car except for a few internal ergonomics and external cues, but one is better quality while the other is better looking. So when I buy a computer from say IBM being the best quality of PC worldwide--proof in them making the most consistent business sales--compared to say Gateway; although its still 2 or more companies assembling the hardware and operating system there is still room for too many glitches and errors. However when I will buy a Mac I am confident that the software and hardware within it will be fully support, troubleshooting will be easier to deal with (since Apple will not have to refer you to MS for an OS issue), and the complete solution gives me more bang for my buck outta the box to use all the hardware as it was intended, greatly increasing efficiency.


Great conversation we all have here thus far!

[Pete W]

Hi,

I used to have a copy of the Apple/Addison-Wesley book on the Macintosh User Interface (ca 1988). Don't have it anymore, lent it to someone and never got it back! I recommend it. There is a more modern book with a similar title but it's written from a different view-point.

But I digress. There may be folks here who know Apple/Mac history better than I do; I'm open to correction but I think the essence of what I'm going to say is correct.

In those days (i.e. 198x), Apple put a team of clever people into a think-tank with the brief to spell out how the computer should serve the user rather than burden him/her by requiring the user to serve the computer. Remember, this was the era of command-line interfaces.

Most of the recommendations that the think-tank team made were not feasible with the technology of the time, 8-bit processors too slow, RAM too slow and too expensive, hard drives too small, slow and expensive etc., etc.

Nevertheless, Apple put into the Mac as much as they could at the time. In succeeding years, even through the era when the CEO knew more about soft drinks than he did about computers, Apple put more and more of the think-tank's recommendations into each succeeding generation of Mac hardware and OS. They stayed faithful to the original vision and implemented more and more of it as the technology made it feasible to do so.

That is the pedigree that is unique to the Mac and which, as far as I know, no other computer can claim and that's why I want to have and use a Mac.

I do also have a Windows machine, I had to get it to comply with the requirements of the British Open University and to get up-to-speed with the machine my employers put on my desk. I do think that Windows has improved over the years, something had to replace the DOS user interface and once it arrived then it needed improvements. But have those improvements enjoyed the consistency and integrity which are the legacy to the modern Mac from that original think-tank?

It's also relevant to say 'imitation is the sincerest form of flattery'!

I can't speak for the latest Macs (I can't afford one but that's a UK thing and a worthy topic for another thread!) but it seemed to me that a Mac application didn't require as much RAM or hard drive as a comparable Windows-based one. If there are software writers reading this, maybe you can comment on this aspect.

[PC Clone]

Moxiemike- that was deliciously irrelevant :)

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by PC Clone
I only bash in response to the PC bashing I've seen here... and also, I don't base everything on one benchmark, but several, and I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find more... my point is, fine, if you like Macs because of the OS interface and the neat looking products and the simplicity of the programs, that's your taste... but don't go bashing PCs and PC users, because you are not better than us...

Also Shadowfax, where have I seen your name before?

sorry about the ext. away over xmas, i only had 56k access at the place i was and really couldn't stomach it, opting to wait the ~1 1/2 weeks to get back to broadband. shadowfax is from lord of the rings, and he's actually in the movie that just came out (2 towers). if this has already been mentioned, sorry for the superfluity of this post. if that's not a word, it's close enough for me.

peace out.

[EJG]

I've always been proud of my Macs because of their superior design and engineering as well as the wonderful operating system. Only until recently have I been disappointed with the new Titanium due to it's poor airport reception. I'm told that the metal case interferes with the signal and that I should get an external 3rd party wireless card or external antenna. I think this is ridiculous and is poor design and engineering. I'm not the only one with this problem: the Apple support forum has many posts describing the same issue. I hope that Apple can do something about this soon. Has anyone here had this experience with the TiBook?

[Les Kern]

Originally posted by EJG
I've always been proud of my Macs because of their superior design and engineering as well as the wonderful operating system. Only until recently have I been disappointed with the new Titanium due to it's poor airport reception. I'm told that the metal case interferes with the signal and that I should get an external 3rd party wireless card or external antenna. I think this is ridiculous and is poor design and engineering. I'm not the only one with this problem: the Apple support forum has many posts describing the same issue. I hope that Apple can do something about this soon. Has anyone here had this experience with the TiBook?

I use my TiBook 50% of the time, have a wireless network at home, and my whole school is wireless. I noticed that, compared to iBooks, the signal was only about 10% lower according to the status bar. I saw somewhere that if you remove the battery and press, hold and slide the wall between the battery compartment and outside of the case that it would re-seat the antenna. I did this and for me it worked. My signal is strong, and MacStumbler shows identical signal strength on both laptops.
The only time I have seen dropouts at all was on the iBooks with a bad airport card. Also, the signal does increase if you turn the TiBook a bit to point the side of the case to the hub.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by Les Kern


I use my TiBook 50% of the time, have a wireless network at home, and my whole school is wireless. I noticed that, compared to iBooks, the signal was only about 10% lower according to the status bar. I saw somewhere that if you remove the battery and press, hold and slide the wall between the battery compartment and outside of the case that it would re-seat the antenna. I did this and for me it worked. My signal is strong, and MacStumbler shows identical signal strength on both laptops.
The only time I have seen dropouts at all was on the iBooks with a bad airport card. Also, the signal does increase if you turn the TiBook a bit to point the side of the case to the hub.

Do you have one of the latest TiBooks. They have been improving airport reception little by little with each new release of them.

[Les Kern]

Originally posted by MacBandit


Do you have one of the latest TiBooks. They have been improving airport reception little by little with each new release of them.

Alas, no. I have an early 400. No complaints though.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by Les Kern


Alas, no. I have an early 400. No complaints though.

It's good to hear someone is getting good airport reception on an early model. I will have to remember that part of being sure th antenna is seated properly.

[Gringo]

I don't like windows. I'ts ugly and really buggy as filled with viruses... allways haveing to patch something or what ever.
I don't like the hardwear, even thow the specs are great... Running Linux or Unix should be great in an AMD 1.7 Ghz... and I belive that that pc will run graet.

But I prefere the ease of use of the mac OS, the cool computers (looks) and the specs... I really don't use much apps but MS Office and internet apps... Music and photo stuff, but all in OS X.

Pc are good as Mac's are. but not all the stars are the same... that is the beuty of life...

G.-

[Prom1]

1. The one mouse button, no confusion for myself or my kids (I'm more efficient with keystrokes, kids how to use the Mac easier when taught with one mouse button).

2. I can cycle thru EVERY open WINDOW in a single program (Command+Tilde~), just like going thru individual programs (Command+Tab) This equals more productivity on a Mac. YOU CANNOT do this on a WINDOWS machine--->really funny since the OS is called WINDOWS!

3. No more ridiculous and annoying error windows complaining about Registry, DLLs, IRQ settings because some bad coded or even well coded application decided to take over the OS' files and rewrite them. On a Mac at least I can understand in plain English what the error report is telling me.

4. Mac has only 1 ever present Menu Bar!!!---Saves screen realestate, especially good when you cannot afford a 17/19/23" monitor but still good even if you do. Imagine 5 apps open on a single monitor all with menu bars all over the screen that you cannot even reduce just to the tittle bar only--when comparing info on 2 different windows that must be open. I dont want to go thru several different (say 20 applications) boxes on a task bar to see how many windows are open in a particular app.

5. Within my Applications folder (PC program files Name of Program folder, within this folder) Application have their own Plain English title names no some junk like WINWORD.EXE.

6. When I delete a program all I have to do is open my Apps folder and drag+drop to the Trash + empty the Trash. No worry of destabilized fragments left over, or fragments that are shared with the systems files in the system folder on a PC. Example Try installing Adobe Acrobat Reader then uninstall it on Windows ME/95/98SE/XP and you'll get some error saying some files cannot be removed because their being shared.

7. Shortcut keys for folders on a Mac--Cannot do on Windows.

Cheers

[benixau]

Originally posted by PC Clone
Oh that thing... isn't it basically the same as the Quick Launch?

sort of. it also shows us what is open without taking up any more space.

w/wuick launch, they are jsut a set of buttons. your apps still show up in the taskbar.

>the taskbar does this:
host start-button (entity in itself)
quick launch (if on) and any other toolbars
show open apps + app windows
host systray items

>dock does this:
quick launch eqiv
show open apps
host trash can
show minimized windows

---------------

the dock is much simpler. with the menu bar at the top for all menus + systray eqiv. our screen is much more organized. less confusion on where to look for things.

but i always maintain it is personal perference. Its just given a preference most people chose MacOS's interface, but windows' compatability. I have all i need/want/desire on the MacOS platform. why choose windows??

[awinn233]

I own a pc, i've owned one all my life. The one I curently use is a 650Mhz AMD w/ 512 memory running XP, it's not much slower than my dad's 1.8gig P4, but has a whole lot of problems. Like when I turn it on, it makes a noise like a dial-up modem, and I have to restart it. It also has other problems that I don't feel like listing, but none of these problems occur on my dad's PC. However i'm switching to a iMac, because the one's i've seen at the apple store and CompUSA completely blow both pc's out of the water. If PC Clone had ever used Mac OS X, he would realize that it's completely superior.:)

[janey]

1. The fact that any computer from apple (maybe except for the eMac) inspires PC users to switch, drool at the beauty, or just stare.
2. Guys who see girls using Macs ask them out
3. It's a great product from Steve Jobs, the great and wonderful CEO of Apple and Jonathan Ive, the greatest and most innovative guy on earth.
4. It's great for everyone from computer illiterate people to advanced users, alpha geeks and developers.

[benixau]

Originally posted by übergeek

2. Guys who see girls using Macs ask them out

2. girls who see guys using macs do their little giggly thing and ask "is that yours?" "yes" "cool" <- impressed

macs 4 eva
pcs neva

:):):)

[Xero]

pretty sad that you depend on your computers for a date. :(

tho i do agree macs will get more public attention than PCs in general, weather it be of the opposite sex or not, weather the females "giggle" or not... just dont count on it being your matchmaker.:rolleyes:

[moby1]

How about the fact that even their "failures" are incredible efforts.

I'm thinking of OS X 10.0 and of course the *glorious* Cube.:cool:

[benixau]

Xero, we do not depend on our computers for dates.

if that was the case i would be dating someone in CA by now. of course i am not and living in australia makes that so much more difficult.

you see we were just commenting. saying that, as you so bluntly put, macs attract more attention than their beige and black couterparts.

no worries.

moby1, apple has never had a failure. just something that didnt go according to plan. You see that cube would be perfect now. DP 1G, 333DDR RAM upto 2G. SD + 120GB HDD. a smallish fan (or none at all) and it would be a killer of a machine.

all apple had to do was fit it with a full size AGP and PCI slot and we would all be clammering to buy one.

it was just too early for it to be terribly successfull. of course, now that those specs can be realised, go check how much they fetch on ebay.

[UnixMac]

Originally posted by Xero
pretty sad that you depend on your computers for a date. :(

tho i do agree macs will get more public attention than PCs in general, weather it be of the opposite sex or not, weather the females "giggle" or not... just dont count on it being your matchmaker.:rolleyes:

I think most women don't have to depend on much to get dates as they usually hold the key to the vault... if you know what I mean..:D

[dabirdwell]

An artistic composition, that is.

The Macuser's seamless experience comes from the completeness of the concept that underlies the design and functionality of the machine.

No design or performance point goes unconsidered. Sure, sometimes we wish a certain area had gotten more attention at a paraticular time, but if we don't want our computers to cost $6000 each, some compromises must be made.

Each Apple is about providing a complete product. I wouldn't want a Yugo with a V-12 in it, because it wouldn't be useful at all. Efficiency and integration of design is paramount to Apple, as it should be, and we are the beneficiaries of their vision.

[Dont Hurt Me]

Originally posted by PC Clone
Well you all seem to have your reasons for using a Mac so I can't fault you for that, however I can't relate to your horror stories of using PCs... I also can't understand your affinity for OSX... I've never operated a Mac using OSX but it doesn't look too different from any other OS I've operated... I've never had trouble with XP and am even sometimes overwhelmed by how much I can actually do with it... at first I thought most Mac users were computer illiterate, but some of you seem to know your stuff... there seems to be no reason you should have all these problems with Windows, especially with the resources you have on the internet that can help... but to each his own... I look foward to someday using this OSX and finding out what all the fuss is about...

benixau- still doesn't work... what exactly is a dock anyway? The dock is a wonderful tool bar sort of holding the alias/ icons of stuff you regularly use! for example i play RTCW all the time and decide i want easy access to it so i just drag its icon on top of the dock whereever i want it to be and presto a alais is created of the icon and is in my dock! now i just have to click on that icon whenever i want to play that game! And most icons are cool looking! So much for the dock i love but what makes mac's are EASE OF USE AND EVERYTHING JUST WORKS! I could go on and on please look at my post on crt imacs for another example but really macs are just better.

[crazytom]

I love my Mac every time my Gateway buddy says he had a problem with his machine and they told him to format his hard drive and reinstall windows!!!!

[UnixMac]

Originally posted by crazytom
I love my Mac every time my Gateway buddy says he had a problem with his machine and they told him to format his hard drive and reinstall windows!!!!

I called Gateway tech support for my sisters P4 Windows XP box because she had a problem with a restore she did that whiped out all her prefs in AOL... so they're solution was... you guessed it... reinstall windows with the restore CD (which reformats the drive too)..

what a bunch of crap... I spent some time playing with it and fixed it myself...

The "tech" people there read out of a book.

[WinterMute]

It's a religeous thing I guess...:D

My PC friends are always harping on about the cost/lack of performance of Macs, but I can't get them off my Ti, and two of them eventually bought Ti's of their own!

I'm an individual, my Mac is an individual, let the PC boys use the clone boxes and let those of us who really know what were talking about get on with it:D :D ;)

[PC Clone]

Originally posted by WinterMute
It's a religeous thing I guess...:D

My PC friends are always harping on about the cost/lack of performance of Macs, but I can't get them off my Ti, and two of them eventually bought Ti's of their own!

I'm an individual, my Mac is an individual, let the PC boys use the clone boxes and let those of us who really know what were talking about get on with it:D :D ;)
:rolleyes: That's funny because it's actually the exact opposite...

[UnixMac]

Originally posted by PC Clone

:rolleyes: That's funny because it's actually the exact opposite...

Sorry PCClone, not with my friends... I own a P4 and many of my friends own PC's, but we all acknowledge the refinement of the Mac, and especially OS X..

[PC Clone]

I was actually referring to his last comment, however:
Try building your own(or have someone who knows what they're doing) computer... give yourself a budget of $1000... and go with an Athlon XP chip this time just for kicks... use good quality parts and that system will smoke your Mac...

[UnixMac]

Originally posted by PC Clone
I was actually referring to his last comment, however:
Try building your own(or have someone who knows what they're doing) computer... give yourself a budget of $1000... and go with an Athlon XP chip this time just for kicks... use good quality parts and that system will smoke your Mac...

That's like saying my $25,000 Z28 goes faster than your Porsche 911.... so what? The 911 has a lot more going for it.

your $1000 XP box will only smoke the mac at certain apps or games, a Dual 1.25Ghz mac does most pro-apps faster than all but the fastest P4 3.06.... there is no smoking going on in most systems... and when you consider the bus speed difference and CPU speed difference, that speaks volumes about the Mac... so wait till PPC970 or G5 comes out.

The speed of the fastest computer goes back and forth between mac and pc.... that really doesn't matter... the majority of people don't need the fastest systems anyway, and they are more for bragging rights.

[Xero]

oh boy, here we go again. :rolleyes:

i advise PC Clone and UnixMac to RE-READ this thread because its ALL BEEN SAID already, right here! hehe.

p.s. i was just joking around about the dating thing, i didnt make that super clear, sorry.

[PC Clone]

Originally posted by UnixMac

The speed of the fastest computer goes back and forth between mac and pc.... that really doesn't matter... the majority of people don't need the fastest systems anyway, and they are more for bragging rights.
I agree, but if you can build a quality 2Ghz machine yourself for a grand then why buy an Apple that costs 150% more?

[WinterMute]

Originally posted by PC Clone

I agree, but if you can build a quality 2Ghz machine yourself for a grand then why buy an Apple that costs 150% more?

Because I choose style and productivity over raw horsepower any day;)

I've never got the cost thing, sure, it's a more expensive playground, but the Mac choice has rarely been about cost.

I don't buy the performance argument, I'd use Sun or SG hardware otherwise, this is about lifestyle choices, the music you like, the clothes you wear, the people you hang out with...

Macs are about who you are, you either love them or you don't, it's not a problem, get over it.

[UnixMac]

Originally posted by PC Clone

I agree, but if you can build a quality 2Ghz machine yourself for a grand then why buy an Apple that costs 150% more?


Cause I'm rich..... Really! :D