Air for petroleum engineering student

Sooner23 · Jul 23, 2013

Hey there,

Due to the projected time of release of the new pro in the fall, do you think the 13inch air would work for an engineering student. I was really looking forward to the new pro, but will need a computer for my August start of classes. I'm not 100 percent on programs ran by petroelum engineers, but I'd assume it's similar to that of other engineer students. Any help is appreciated!

m98custom1212 · Jul 23, 2013

I have i5/256gb/8gb macbook air with windows 8. I have no problems till 2,000 part assemblies in NX..

You have to realize most of the problems you will need will need windows only.. so either you will dual boot or wipe osx.

If this is gone to be your main computer. I would recommend the I7 and 13

mattferg · Jul 23, 2013

m98custom1212 said:
I have i5/256gb/8gb macbook air with windows 8. I have no problems till 2,000 part assemblies in NX..

You have to realize most of the problems you will need will need windows only.. so either you will dual boot or wipe osx.

If this is gone to be your main computer. I would recommend the I7 and 13

Even if it was his main computer, I'd strongly recommend against the i7. He doesn't need it, it's overkill, it's $150 he could best spend on other things.

m98custom1212 · Jul 23, 2013

mattferg said:
Even if it was his main computer, I'd strongly recommend against the i7. He doesn't need it, it's overkill, it's $150 he could best spend on other things.

Yes he will... If he is going into engineering he will be doing rendering which will benefit from the i7.

Are you an engineer or engineering student?

Sooner23 · Jul 23, 2013

Thanks for the replies guys, do you have any trouble running windows on your airs? Iv heard the air is suitable and meets the minimum requirements, I just would like a well run machine once the programs become heavier.

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Student!

m98custom1212 · Jul 23, 2013

No I haven't no one crash/blue screen/ freeze. I was never "mac" fan but I had a Sony Vaio Pro 13 and wireless and blue tooth was always dropping.. I looked for my ultrabook replacement and macbook air fit the bill and was actually cheaper then my pro 13. I lost in screen resolution but gained in battery life, wireless ac and very quality ultrabook

You are better installing window 8 due the driver support is much better and only will continue getting better for airs.

mattferg · Jul 23, 2013

m98custom1212 said:
Yes he will... If he is going into engineering he will be doing rendering which will benefit from the i7.

Are you an engineer or engineering student?

Design student, which as I'm sure you'll know requires LOADS of rendering, and I've done comparisons with the i7, there's little or no improvement in speed. If he's a student he's much, MUCH better off spending the $150 on something else.

m98custom1212 · Jul 23, 2013

mattferg said:
Design student, which as I'm sure you'll know requires LOADS of rendering, and I've done comparisons with the i7, there's little or no improvement in speed. If he's a student he's much, MUCH better off spending the $150 on something else.

How can you even say that? I will post a bunch of benchmarks proving you other wise

Now if you are using autocad that's a different story What programs are you using?

dukebound85 · Jul 23, 2013

m98custom1212 said:
Yes he will... If he is going into engineering he will be doing rendering which will benefit from the i7.

Are you an engineer or engineering student?

I am and he won't need an i7

Most engineering apps won't run local on his machine anyways as the licenses are too much and windows only.

I am also in disagreement about rendering. In my experience, he won't be rendering at all. He will make use of CAD packages on lab computers where component design and assembly are important, not the rendering

College is not taxing on a personal computer. All the heavy duty programs will be lab only or be able to be vpn'd into

m98custom1212 · Jul 23, 2013

dukebound85 said:
I am and he won't need an i7

Most engineering apps won't run local on his machine anyways as the licenses are too much and windows only.

I am also in disagreement about rendering. In my experience, he won't be rendering at all. He will make use of CAD packages on lab computers where component design and assembly are important, not the rendering

College is not taxing on a personal computer. All the heavy duty programs will be lab only or be able to be vpn'd into

I never one used my lab computer because they was often to slow for me. I said rendering at first.. I should have added matlab and anysys. We had do rendering for our designs to show off first concepts.

Not the same (older ivy bridge) but will get the point across

(In seconds)

TC25 · Jul 24, 2013

Sooner23 said:
Hey there,

Due to the projected time of release of the new pro in the fall, do you think the 13inch air would work for an engineering student. I was really looking forward to the new pro, but will need a computer for my August start of classes. I'm not 100 percent on programs ran by petroelum engineers, but I'd assume it's similar to that of other engineer students. Any help is appreciated!

Read this thread if you change majors to an MBA.

As we get closer to fall, I am looking forward to new threads for every possible major, both undergrad and graduate.

jav6454 · Jul 24, 2013

Sooner23 said:
Hey there,

Due to the projected time of release of the new pro in the fall, do you think the 13inch air would work for an engineering student. I was really looking forward to the new pro, but will need a computer for my August start of classes. I'm not 100 percent on programs ran by petroelum engineers, but I'd assume it's similar to that of other engineer students. Any help is appreciated!

No, stay away from the Air as an Engineering computer. I'm an engineer. If you want Mac, stick to the 13" MB at minimum.

mattferg · Jul 24, 2013

m98custom1212 said:
How can you even say that? I will post a bunch of benchmarks proving you other wise

Now if you are using autocad that's a different story What programs are you using?

I do use AutoCAD. And again, as I said, benchmarks mean NOTHING if there's no benefit to the user in real world scenarios. This is what you i7 guys miss.

Also, referencing the Ivy Bridge models, which are entirely irrelevant as the i7 upgrade now does so much less, is a bad move.

m98custom1212 · Jul 24, 2013

mattferg said:
I do use AutoCAD. And again, as I said, benchmarks mean NOTHING if there's no benefit to the user in real world scenarios. This is what you i7 guys miss.

Also, referencing the Ivy Bridge models, which are entirely irrelevant as the i7 upgrade now does so much less, is a bad move.

You use autocad which isn't intensive at all and only is single threaded. (which will be noticed on the i7 due higher clock) Talk to me when you use an industrial level package on daily base- NX, Catia, Inventor, Solidworks etc

That was real world use... That was a Solidworks benchmark. (built right into solidworks) If you read the benchmarks i7 was faster by double

Haswell is 10% faster clock for clock then ivy bridge so will 10% faster numbers on haswell system (roughly)

teffers · Jul 24, 2013

I work for an Oil & Gas exploration and delivery company.

One of our new graduate interns has a brand new Air (I think he has an i3 8GB) and he has no issues at all ... well other than getting it to see our print server lol.

dukebound85 · Jul 24, 2013

m98custom1212 said:
You use autocad which isn't intensive at all and only is single threaded. (which will be noticed on the i7 due higher clock) Talk to me when you use an industrial level package on daily base- NX, Catia, Inventor, Solidworks etc

That was real world use... That was a Solidworks benchmark. (built right into solidworks) If you read the benchmarks i7 was faster by double

Haswell is 10% faster clock for clock then ivy bridge so will 10% faster numbers on haswell system (roughly)

I have used ProE, gambit, fluent, etc. All of which require windows btw. A student is not going to be pushing those programs hard on their personal machine. They will learn how to make simple components/meshes/etc illustrating how to use features like patterns or simple extrusions and then how to do assemblies.

Later in their curriculums, they may use it extensively for a senior design project (like FSAE) but that will be on a lab/group machine and not your personal.

Think back when you were a student. Thos programs you learn to get exposure to and learn how to use them. It is not jumping into designing 10000 component assemblies and running FEA on it.

Regarding matlab, I had used that extensively when I was in my grad studies. I was way more limited by ram than by cpu. I preferred working on my personal i5 with 16gig of ram vs my work i7 with 8gigs for that very reason

I agree with the poster who stated to get a base 13 mbp though. More than sufficient

m98custom1212 · Jul 24, 2013

dukebound85 said:
I have used ProE, gambit, fluent, etc. All of which require windows btw. A student is not going to be pushing those programs hard on their personal machine. They will learn how to make simple components/meshes/etc illustrating how to use features like patterns or simple extrusions and then how to do assemblies.

Later in their curriculums, they may use it extensively for a senior design project (like FSAE) but that will be on a lab/group machine and not your personal.

Think back when you were a student. Thos programs you learn to get exposure to and learn how to use them. It is not jumping into designing 10000 component assemblies and running FEA on it.

Regarding matlab, I had used that extensively when I was in my grad studies. I was way more limited by ram than by cpu. I preferred working on my personal i5 with 16gig of ram vs my work i7 with 8gigs for that very reason

I agree with the poster who stated to get a base 13 mbp though. More than sufficient

+If we was student we got the software for nothing to run on personal machines to me that was no brainier.

I guess my curriculum was little different.. I graduated in the spring of 2013 but started working as manufacturing engineer for 2.5 years.

We did basics for about two weeks (boxes, round parts stupid easy) .. then we started jumping into FEA, Surfacing, researching, design changes, render this to photo-realistic all stuff that would happen in the real world as a Freshman. I remember my professor said no happen how of good job you do.. I'm gone to make you change and redo it. (just that would happen on the floor) and being cnc programmer helped my career. A lot of class mates had a hard time keeping up.. falling behind making time to go to the lab etc.

I also remember seeing class mates sitting the lab for 8+ hours waiting for renderings or calculations to get done.

Psychj0e · Jul 24, 2013

m98custom1212 said:
I never one used my lab computer because they was often to slow for me. I said rendering at first.. I should have added matlab and anysys. We had do rendering for our designs to show off first concepts.

Not the same (older ivy bridge) but will get the point across

(In seconds)

Image

Image

I use MATLAB just fine on a 2012 11" baseline macbook air with i5 processor...

m98custom1212 · Jul 24, 2013

Psychj0e said:
I use MATLAB just fine on a 2012 11" baseline macbook air with i5 processor...

I didn't say you couldn't run it............................ I'M SAYING IT WILL BENEFIT YOU TO UPGRADE TO THE I7 aka worth the $150

If you look I have I5 in my macbook air also.

luisito · Jul 24, 2013

dukebound85 said:
Regarding matlab, I had used that extensively when I was in my grad studies. I was way more limited by ram than by cpu. I preferred working on my personal i5 with 16gig of ram vs my work i7 with 8gigs for that very reason

Absolute BS.

MatLAB demands more processor than RAM.

I use MatLAB for every class I ever had, have and will have, my University has its own IT department for Engineering alone, they not only make recommendations for the hardware aspects that our laptops should have as students for our Engineering software, but also demonstrate it on the computers they build for student use (Engineers only).

MatLAB doesn't need to built 3D graphical scenarios (renderings) such SolidWorks/ProE, MatLAB is simply an engineering calculator, a very powerful calculator, it needs power to think, power to do operations, it needs a powerful brain. RAM is only for temporary data storage, has no thinking power of its own. The only way that one could benefit from more RAM, is if you are doing an unsteady (dynamic) problem, but that requires a super computer which would take weeks and sometimes even months to obtain an answer.

By the love of god, even my professors use MatLAB on their iPads during class. Crappy RAM, but powerful processing.

Psychj0e · Jul 24, 2013

m98custom1212 said:
I didn't say you couldn't run it............................ I'M SAYING IT WILL BENEFIT YOU TO UPGRADE TO THE I7 aka worth the $150

If you look I have I5 in my macbook air also.

The performance increase he'll see is not worth it.

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luisito said:
Absolute BS.

MatLAB demands more processor than RAM.

I use MatLAB for every class I ever had, have and will have, my University has its own IT department for Engineering alone, they not only make recommendations for the hardware aspects that our laptops should have as students for our Engineering software, but also demonstrate it on the computers they build for student use (Engineers only).

MatLAB doesn't need to built 3D graphical scenarios (renderings) such SolidWorks/ProE, MatLAB is simply an engineering calculator, a very powerful calculator, it needs power to think, power to do operations, it needs a powerful brain. RAM is only for temporary data storage, has no thinking power of its own. The only way that one could benefit from more RAM, is if you are doing an unsteady (dynamic) problem, but that requires a super computer which would take weeks and sometimes even months to obtain an answer.

By the love of god, even my professors use MatLAB on their iPads during class. Crappy RAM, but powerful processing.

MATLAB running on iPad? Nope, never. Remotely yes, but using iPad hardware for more than that, no.

mattferg · Jul 24, 2013

m98custom1212 said:
I didn't say you couldn't run it............................ I'M SAYING IT WILL BENEFIT YOU TO UPGRADE TO THE I7 aka worth the $150

If you look I have I5 in my macbook air also.

Benefit =/= worth the $150. Sure, he might benefit from having 1 second shaved off his processing day, but that isn't worth the $150. Don't get the i7!

m98custom1212 · Jul 24, 2013

mattferg said:
Benefit =/= worth the $150. Sure, he might benefit from having 1 second shaved off his processing day, but that isn't worth the $150. Don't get the i7!

Did look at the benchmarks I posted? It was half of time easily worth $150

I like how you chine in randomly..

oneMadRssn · Jul 24, 2013

I was (am?) a mechanical engineer, was once a student too. For Solidworks and Pro/Engineer design work, RAM was a much more important factor than CPU speed.

Psychj0e · Jul 24, 2013

m98custom1212 said:
Did look at the benchmarks I posted? It was half of time easily worth $150

I like how you chine in randomly..

Sigh, it'll not be noticeable in real world terms, not for the types of things they'll have an undergraduate student running.

Also, you're using windows benchmarks... MATLAB runs faster on windows (even in a virtual environment) than it does on OSX, so you can't use your screenshot (where you've also left out information such as ram etc) to argue he should spend the extra money over an i5 because the magnitude of difference may not be the same.

Air for petroleum engineering student

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