Revamping the Motorola ROKR [Archive]

MacRumors

Nov 16, 2005, 07:17 AM

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

After a lackluster launch, Businessweek is reporting (http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/nov2005/tc20051116_645842.htm) that Motorola and Cingular are working on a revamp for the ROKR iTunes-enabled phone (http://guides.macrumors.com/ROKR_E1_Phone).

Though an early move by both companies to put music on mobile phones was a disappointment, they don't plan to make the same mistake twice.

According to the article, Motorola says to have shipped 500,000 of the ROKR phone, despite the poor reviews. While able to play iTunes-purchased songs, the ROKR was limited to holding only 100 songs regardless of storage capacity.

In 2006, Motorola is planning on introducing a new version of the ROKR that addresses many of the issues of the first generation. New features expected include a 1 megapixel camera, a 3.5mm earphone jack, capacity to hold 1000 songs, and a "sleek new look". iTunes support is expected to remain.

Abstract

Nov 16, 2005, 07:20 AM

I think all decent phones nowadays have quite comparable features, so that was never the biggest issue with the ROKR. The problem was that the style wasn't cool anymore, and after THAT they decided to put iTunes on the phone.

bigandy

Nov 16, 2005, 07:28 AM

hmmmm. it's still a motorola phone. :o

BornAgainMac

Nov 16, 2005, 07:47 AM

Like Trump would probably say "That phone was a total disaster.... You didn't know your target customer. Your fired!"

hob

Nov 16, 2005, 07:50 AM

macam

Nov 16, 2005, 07:52 AM

Until Motorola Announce that they have either been bought out by SonyEricsson or they have sold the ROKR to SE... Then I won't be buying one. The Menus on the Motos and general usability of these phones are pants to say the least!

Why oh Why didn't Steve do some user research before he chose to partner with Motorola...

Just release a Apple Branded phone (Made in cupertino!) and be done with it... I will be on that band wagon like a shot... and I think like a whole load of people too!

macam

Lacero

Nov 16, 2005, 07:53 AM

ROKR is great for people who don't like the RAZR flip phones. I personally don't like flip phones, so this phone is geared for people like me. :D

macam

Nov 16, 2005, 07:56 AM

ROKR is great for people who don't like the RAZR flip phones. I personally don't like flip phones, so this phone is geared for people like me. :D

Woah hold on... are you saying that you actually like the Motorolas? You will be the first that I have met in a while!!!! ;)

macam

mjstew33

Nov 16, 2005, 08:14 AM

Whatever. The phone was bad this time, it'll be bad next time :rolleyes:

Applespider

Nov 16, 2005, 08:15 AM

Woah hold on... are you saying that you actually like the Motorolas? You will be the first that I have met in a while!!!! ;)

No, he said he didn't like flip phones. I don't like flip phones either but that doesn't mean I liked the original ROKR. I do like my SE k750i though.

dr_lha

Nov 16, 2005, 08:18 AM

Woah hold on... are you saying that you actually like the Motorolas? You will be the first that I have met in a while!!!! ;)

macam

Us haters of flip phones seem to have little choice these days. Personally I have a SE phone, which does everything I want (Bluetooth, Camera, non-flip phone, decent phone), however looking at the Cingular Store I see that they don't even sell a non-flip SE phone any more. In fact the only feature rich non-flip phone that isn't a PDA/Blackberry is the ROKR.

Everyone else the the world has decent choice in phones, why is the US so obsessed with flip-phones that you can't even get anything else any more?

nbs2

Nov 16, 2005, 08:24 AM

Woah hold on... are you saying that you actually like the Motorolas? You will be the first that I have met in a while!!!! ;)

macam
I'm in the same boat as Lacero. I don't like flip phones so the ROKR is the foundation of a phone I would like. If I remember right, I wasn't too impressed with the interface but otherwise I wasn't as bothered as other people. What I would love to find is a nice, simple phone without a camera and with BT and iTunes. I wonder what the chance is that some phone company will start selling phones like computer companies sell computers, with a base and then available functionality. I guess there isn't enough margin, but....oh well. Sorry about the rambling.

VanMac

Nov 16, 2005, 08:28 AM

Anything they do will likely be an improvement.

Skeptical if it would be good enough to actually purchase.....

ericssonboi

Nov 16, 2005, 08:32 AM

Sony Ericsson did a better job. They may have been using the Walkman brand, but I don't think that actually added anything to the phone - they researched and built a solid phone. As they do!

Simply:
Motorola = Boo
Sony Ericsson = Yay!

Basicly Motorolla is trying to come out with a phone like the SE W800 with the 3.5mm jack. But after a year, the W800 still be better with a 2.0mp camera. I seriously think Apple made a mistake by signing up with motorolla

dcv

Nov 16, 2005, 08:34 AM

I'm also a Sony Ericsson fan, would never buy a Motorola phone.

I'm waiting for the release of the W900i (http://www.sonyericsson.com/spg.jsp?cc=gb&lc=en&ver=4000&template=pp1_1_1&zone=pp&lm=pp1&pid=10333) - not so much for the music, but just as a possible next handset. Ideally i'd like a slim flip phone to replace my Z1010 but most of the other SE clamshells are chunky/ugly/have worse specs than what I currently have.

W900i is a swivel action Sony Ericsson 3G Walkman™ phone. It has everything you need to enjoy your music on the move and it supports the latest and most advanced 3G network services. An impressive large screen makes mobile video viewing pure pleasure and the audio quality is what you would expect from an advanced digital music player. A 2 megapixel camera with auto focus will let you take pictures to be proud of and you can send them straight from your phone.
http://www.sonyericsson.com/images/spgc/GPD_25241high_28_0_4000.jpg

Zzero0

Nov 16, 2005, 08:40 AM

iTunes is nice on the phone but the ROKR is just a phone with no style. The RAZR is perty sad on styling. Moto and Apple should take a clue from Nokia. Style and Functionality can be had in a phone at a reasonabl price. For functionality the N80 can't be beat. http://www.nokia.com/nseries/index.html?loc=inside,main_n80 For style the 8800 is very nice http://www.nokia8800.com/

macam

Nov 16, 2005, 08:42 AM

No, he said he didn't like flip phones. I don't like flip phones either but that doesn't mean I liked the original ROKR. I do like my SE k750i though.

Ok fair enough - I just made the assumption that the comment being on a motorola thread was in fact about a motorola phone, much like you made the assumption that Lacero is a he. (Unless you know them!!! and in which case my clever argument is completely moot and I will go and sit in the naughty corner and write out 1000 lines of 'I must not be a smart arse':D )

PS I too have a SE K750i and a K600i Both awesome phones and both non flip phones. Both able to brilliantly sync to my macs and kicks any other phone out there... awesome! Apple phone to resemble these phones please steve!

macam

macam

Nov 16, 2005, 08:48 AM

What I would love to find is a nice, simple phone without a camera and with BT and iTunes. I wonder what the chance is that some phone company will start selling phones like computer companies sell computers, with a base and then available functionality. 0

Dude, Try the Nokia 3120. Trust me when I say they are simple small phones. Phone and contacts... simple as that... the coolest features are colour screen and funky (ie Crappy) Ringtones.

have a look at http://www.nokia.co.uk/nokia/0,,69484,00.html unfortunately I don't know if they sell them in the states...

Is this the kinda thing you mean!?

macam

mister_L

Nov 16, 2005, 08:50 AM

hmmmm. it's still a motorola phone. :o

yep. the biggest problem won´t be solved ;).

apple should build a phone on their own and have a look at the se-phones.
i have a sonyericsson k750i and afaik there is no better "apple-supported" phone - still, an iphone would be the greatest!

Chundles

Nov 16, 2005, 08:55 AM

I want a cheap and I mean cheap ($150AUD with pre-paid), non-flip, no camera, no bluetooth, phone with good reception, long long battery life and iTunes integration. I want it to be slim, light and strong whilst maintaining a sense of style to it.

I don't want the horrible Moto UI though.

And it needs brightly backlit and well delineated buttons that are both large enough and easy enough to navigate the keypad by touch

Hattig

Nov 16, 2005, 09:01 AM

Why don't Apple simply release iTunes software for Symbian UIQ, Symbian S60 and whatever other phone operating systems there are? Then anyone can have iTunes on their phone.

My Motorola A1000 has the annoying small headphone jack issue as well. It's not a bad phone, but it suffers from the American disease of chunkyness that Apple has managed to evolve from.

If Apple made a phone i'm sure it'd end up being quite usable. Apple tends to distance themselves from an implementation and think about the functionality, the importance of each function, the actual use of the device. An Apple made phone might actually concentrate on being a good phone, shock horror. Sadly a scroll-wheel might work for selecting numbers on a dial and navigating menus, but it would suck for text entry - a major requirement for a modern phone. I think an Apple phone would therefore end up looking like a smaller better designed Nokia communicator, with a keyboard thumbpad for texting and similar. On the outside would be a secondary screen and scrollwheel for non-text functions - you can dial numbers, select address book entries for phoning, select music, whatever, via the external interface. Inside there'd be a 320x200 wide display for texting, emails, browsing and whatever else phones do these days.

longofest

Nov 16, 2005, 09:04 AM

Cheers for a revamped ROKR, that you can then "unlock" and then get off of cingular's stupid service and use on Verizon.

Anyone have practical experience with doing this trick? With the ROKR?

kretzy

Nov 16, 2005, 09:07 AM

I'd bet all the G5 Quad-core PMs in the world, that it'll still be UGLY!

electronboy

Nov 16, 2005, 09:09 AM

... Motorola and Cingular are working on a revamp for the ROKR iTunes-enabled phone. Though an early move by both companies to put music on mobile phones was a disappointment...

You guys have it all wrong, this phone was the result of THREE companies working on the product. You conveniently left out Apple, who probably is to blame for the phone having a LAME 100 song limit.

They probably have aspirations of their own and saw this as a way to test the market without first bringing out their own product.

The ROKR is and will be a failure because Apple limited its functionality early on in the design process.

electronboy

Nov 16, 2005, 09:18 AM

an iphone would be the greatest!

Why do we want an Apple phone? Let's see... the phone would initialy be widely praised for its ease of use and innovation. It may even win some awards for design.

Then Apple would decide after a few years that they would dramatically change the very foundation of the phone using industry standard parts yet still charge a fortune for it.

Then the phone would be become plain and unexciting like every other phone.

x86isslow

Nov 16, 2005, 09:26 AM

Cheers for a revamped ROKR, that you can then "unlock" and then get off of cingular's stupid service and use on Verizon.

Anyone have practical experience with doing this trick? With the ROKR?

You can unlock the ROKR, that's really easy. Trying to use a GSM phone on a bass-ackwards Verizon network (CDMA)- priceless. :p

electronboy

Nov 16, 2005, 09:28 AM

The RAZR is perty sad on styling.

uh... the RAZR is a beautiful and innovative phone. If it is so horribly styled then why is it selling so well?

I really don't understand all the complaining about the Moto phones. But I am not a hard core cell phone user. I maybe use 200 minutes a month. I really don't understand all the complaints about UI. Just pick up the phone and dial it! Works great! If you want Aqua use a Mac!

Here is why I bought a RAZR:

thin
good looks
does what I want
no antennae to poke you while in your pocket
did i mention thin?

If you happen to be like one of those people who are constatly talking on your phone I could imagine that you might want something else, but the RAZR will meet the needs of many people.

mkjellman

Nov 16, 2005, 09:30 AM

nope...no amount of unlocking will put this on verizon....its GSM

Mass Hysteria

Nov 16, 2005, 09:36 AM

Apple

Nov 16, 2005, 09:50 AM

Nokia's head designer was escorted from the premises the other day – he has just landed a job at apple apparantly . . . hmmmmmm
.

I hope this is true. I didnt like the look of the ROKR and I hate the way Motorola spells out the names of their phones. I mean "i" this and "e" that for apple was enough but it seems like Apples names stole vowels from motorola

dr_lha

Nov 16, 2005, 09:50 AM

Dude, Try the Nokia 3120. Trust me when I say they are simple small phones. Phone and contacts... simple as that... the coolest features are colour screen and funky (ie Crappy) Ringtones.

have a look at http://www.nokia.co.uk/nokia/0,,69484,00.html unfortunately I don't know if they sell them in the states...

Is this the kinda thing you mean!?

macam

Agreed, if I wasn't such a gadget junkie who loves his BT syncing, thats the phone I'd own (as such its pretty much the only small non-flip Nokia that is available in America today). My Wife has one and it rocks. For some reason Nokia Phones are going out of fashion with GSM providors over here, Cingular and T-Mobile hardly have any Nokia phones, which is a shame. Why American phone companies are obsessed with Samsung and Motorola I'll never know - their phones are *****.

840quadra

Nov 16, 2005, 10:05 AM

Failure or not,

The devices limited sales numbers due to it's limited features, do not surprise me. Why pay that much for a phone when you can buy a better phone, and a Shuffle or Nano for the same price of the ROKR. Having such limited capacity is ridiculous, especially if people wanted to bring their own music, and have enough room to buy songs on the fly.

Kudos to them for working on a new phone, but it is going to be hard to get past their current image.

840
Happy Motorola user, just don't have the ROKR, nor can I get one (Verizon)

philmo

Nov 16, 2005, 10:18 AM

ibook30

Nov 16, 2005, 10:20 AM

Stupid Phone.

Been saying the same thing since it was first rumored.
Now if apple made it right- I'd change my tune. And if Mass Hysteria is correct - as copied below, I may need a tune changer...

"Nokia's head designer was escorted from the premises the other day – he has just landed a job at apple apparantly . . . hmmmmmm"

dr_lha

Nov 16, 2005, 10:28 AM

I'm currently shopping for a phone that will play nice with my Mac, but having problems and this looks like the perfect opportunity to ask for advice.

My ideal hypothetical phone has:
1. Bluetooth, but no camera
2. The ability to sync with my Mac
3. Color screen
4. Good battery life/reception, of course.

Oh, and I currently have Cingular, but want to switch to Verizon. I was fairly sure that the Moto E815 was perfect, besides the camera bit, but I hadn't heard so much grumbling about Motorola phones before this thread.

I'd appreciate any suggestions!

Forget Verizon if you want Bluetooth on the phone to do anything other than work with a headset. Verizon cripple the bluetooth on their phones so people can't use it to transfer data as this apparently impinges on their business (i.e. charging $2.50 for a midi ringtone rather than just downloading one free off the net and uploading it to the phone using BT).

MacSlut

Nov 16, 2005, 10:31 AM

My biggest complaint with the ROKR: USB 1.1

I really hope the new version has USB 2. If they add the other features listed in this rumor (better camera and standard headphone port) this phone would be a *much* better product. The 100 song limit really isn't that big of a deal, but it would be nice if it was bumped up and if the phone gave real podcast and audiobook support.

corbin_a2

Nov 16, 2005, 10:40 AM

rjstanford

Nov 16, 2005, 10:43 AM

The devices limited sales numbers due to it's limited features, do not surprise me. Why pay that much for a phone when you can buy a better phone, and a Shuffle or Nano for the same price of the ROKR.

Heck, better than that, you could take an iPod nano and glue it to the back of a Moto RAZR, and still have a comparatively small phone. Now, considering that you'd have some space savings (you wouldn't need 2 external screens, shared battery, less package, etc) we should expect an Apple-enabled mobile to hit at least that benchmark. No?

shamino

Nov 16, 2005, 10:47 AM

hmmmm. it's still a motorola phone. :o
So.... In order for Motorola to fix the ROKR to your satisfaction, someone else must manufacture it? Nothing else they do can ever make it OK for you?

And people think Apple zealots are weird....

Koodauw

Nov 16, 2005, 10:57 AM

I dont understand all the reason people hate motorola phones. I have been a fan of the design for a longtime. Its really the only brand of phone I would buy.

840quadra

Nov 16, 2005, 11:03 AM

I dont understand all the reason people hate motorola phones. I have been a fan of the design for a longtime. Its really the only brand of phone I would buy.

All I buy is Motorola phones, for both my Verizon and nextel accounts. I do hate the Verizon phones as they are sooooo fragile. But I can throw my Nextel i730 on the ground, and still use it for an hour long phone call!

dr_lha

Nov 16, 2005, 11:04 AM

You got to kidding... I don't understand the anti-moto people. If you want a phone with blah styling and a crap interface stick with a Nokia.

I'll give you the RAZR, its a nice looking phone, but everything else motorola make looks like crap. As for the user interface, motorola have the worst user interface of any phone out there. Even people I know who love their RAZRs will admit that. Nokia have one of the clearest and best interfaces out there today, and its unified over their range of phones.

For the record, I own a Sony Ericcson phone myself, and in the past have owned Nokia, Samsung, Kyocera and Motorola phones. Nokia have by far the best UI out of all these phones. The Motorola phone I had had an interface so unusable it took me about 10 key presses to make a call from the phone book. RAZR is improved, but still lags behind both SE and Nokia (Nokia is the better of the two).

w00master

Nov 16, 2005, 11:20 AM

I'll give you the RAZR, its a nice looking phone, but everything else motorola make looks like crap. As for the user interface, motorola have the worst user interface of any phone out there. Even people I know who love their RAZRs will admit that. Nokia have one of the clearest and best interfaces out there today, and its unified over their range of phones.

For the record, I own a Sony Ericcson phone myself, and in the past have owned Nokia, Samsung, Kyocera and Motorola phones. Nokia have by far the best UI out of all these phones. The Motorola phone I had had an interface so unusable it took me about 10 key presses to make a call from the phone book. RAZR is improved, but still lags behind both SE and Nokia (Nokia is the better of the two).

I wouldn't say Motorola has the worst UI. I actually find the Sony phones to be the worst. I definitely agree with you that Nokia makes the best UI in terms of phones, but I have yet to see the "perfect" phone UI yet.

All in all, it will be a LOOOONG time before I touch anything Sony. They write some of the worst software code and worst DRM. Can anyone say ROOTKIT?

Sony is out of my book for a while.

w00master

javiercr

Nov 16, 2005, 11:21 AM

bretm

Nov 16, 2005, 11:31 AM

That phone is awesome. It's the tiniest color phone I've ever used. My wife has one on Cingluar. It's just so slightly different because she got it a year ago. But it's narrower and just slighly longer than a business card. Extremely light, and yes, it has the coolest ringtones. Cheesy, but great.

They sold them here for about a month as far as I can tell. She saw one, then she had to hunt around to get it when she decided it was what she wanted.

I've got the motorola V551 on cingular. It sycs to .mac with a $10 usb cable. It also fits in the cradle of a cell socket so I can use it to power my entire house for phone usage.

The only thing that sucks about the v551 from motorola is that the contact list is sluggish to scroll through. Otherwise it looks cool, feels cool (rubberized finish), and is solid as hell. A little weightier than most flip phones.

Dude, Try the Nokia 3120. Trust me when I say they are simple small phones. Phone and contacts... simple as that... the coolest features are colour screen and funky (ie Crappy) Ringtones.

have a look at http://www.nokia.co.uk/nokia/0,,69484,00.html unfortunately I don't know if they sell them in the states...

Is this the kinda thing you mean!?

macam

etracer

Nov 16, 2005, 11:40 AM

Not gonna happen.

Apple won't let iTunes work with a phone that can store 1000 songs. Doing so would cannibalize iPod sales. Part of Apple's philosophy with the ROKR was to limit it to 100 songs so everyone would see how much cellular phones suck as MP3 players and how much better the iPod is. This strategy certainly worked with the ROKR.

The only exception to this would be an "Apple-branded" phone where Apple actually gets some of the revenue for the phone sales.

kingstontown

Nov 16, 2005, 12:17 PM

Oh cm' on! Not another cell phone war... My SE is better than your Moto is better than your Nokia is better....

The phones are so similar today, I personally like the menu structure of Motos much better than that of SEs.

Apple - unfortunately - forced Motorola to release a basically 2 years old phone (Moto E398) with a crippled iTunes just not to endanger the iPods.

Look at the RAZR V3i and SLVR L7, these are going to be the _real_ iTunes phones!

philmo

Nov 16, 2005, 12:21 PM

Forget Verizon if you want Bluetooth on the phone to do anything other than work with a headset.

Are you saying that if I get a Motorola E815 with Verizon I can't sync its calendar and adress book with iCal and the Mac address book? Or do they somehow block transfers of ringtones but allow syncing address books.

Either way, that sucks. I'm sure Verizon isn't going to offer a Kid Icarus theme ringtone. :)

Kingsly

Nov 16, 2005, 12:23 PM

I agree with etracer. Either Steve has lost his mind or he plans on releasing a 4 and 8 gb iPod nano to counter the 1000 song ROKR. Or, in my opionion, that aspect of the rumor is not true. You're right in saying the ROKR was limited by Apple, weather or not to show the public how much mp3 phones suck i'll never know.
As far as im concerned I will never get an iTunes phone as long at thier made by motorola. They seriously need to buy a few sony and nokia phones and have thier engineers ponder over the superior OS. In sony's case its like comparing 10.4 to windows 95!! Get with the program motorola!!!!!
If anyone can pull off a stylish and "totally great" mp3 cell phone it WILL be Apple and ONLY Apple. Keep those fingers crossed during Macworld 2006!

sjo

Nov 16, 2005, 12:29 PM

For some reason Nokia Phones are going out of fashion with GSM providors over here, Cingular and T-Mobile hardly have any Nokia phones, which is a shame. Why American phone companies are obsessed with Samsung and Motorola I'll never know - their phones are *****.

That's because Nokia is integrating WiFi and VoIP into their mobiles big time. Most of the American phone companies are obsessed with locking even smaller features such as transferring a pic you take with your phone into your own computer without sending it through their network. You can imagine such phone companies aren't exactly exited about the new Nokia phones and aren't buying any Nokia phones...

MacTruck

Nov 16, 2005, 01:06 PM

Only way to make the ROKR better would be to make it thinner, add a flip phone design to it, 1.3megapixal camera, speaker phone and cool looking.

Oh wait, its already here, its called the RAZR V3i.

The ROKR was dead when it launched and will remain that way.

MacTruck

Nov 16, 2005, 01:09 PM

quigleybc

Nov 16, 2005, 01:21 PM

I would be so mad if I bought one of the first one's....It sucked, and then they bring out a better one a few months later...

weak

dr_lha

Nov 16, 2005, 01:24 PM

Are you saying that if I get a Motorola E815 with Verizon I can't sync its calendar and adress book with iCal and the Mac address book? Or do they somehow block transfers of ringtones but allow syncing address books.

Either way, that sucks. I'm sure Verizon isn't going to offer a Kid Icarus theme ringtone. :)

Out of the box the E815 can't do any of those things (OK - it might be able to do calendar syncing with iSync, but reports are spotty). You have to hack the phone to make it have full Bluetooth functionality. Here is a thread describing it:

http://forums.macosxhints.com/showthread.php?t=42102

Requires a Windows XP machine :rolleyes:

Question is, should you support a company that purposefully cripples its phones to try to make you use their expensive ringtones / picture downloads? Why do you have to spend 50cents emailing a picture from your phone to yourself when you should be able to transfer it using bluetooth for free?

philmo

Nov 16, 2005, 01:40 PM

Question is, should you support a company that purposefully cripples its phones to try to make you use their expensive ringtones / picture downloads?

I agree. I was just curious.

I'm all for voting with my dollars when it comes to supporting ethical companies. I'd be more than happy to buy a phone from another company if there existed a cell phone with the features that I want. :)

dr_lha

Nov 16, 2005, 02:37 PM

I agree. I was just curious.

I'm all for voting with my dollars when it comes to supporting ethical companies. I'd be more than happy to buy a phone from another company if there existed a cell phone with the features that I want. :)

Yes, I voted with my wallet after the V710 came out on Verizon. I really wanted a BT phone, but it was so crippled I switched over to AT+T and a SE T637, which does everything I need (works wonderfully with iSync through BT). Verizon used to be all about quality and service, but now they have become a large evil company, and I won't do business with them anymore.

That said, Cingular are getting just as bad.

Sometimes I think I should just give up and become a hermit. ;)

haunebu

Nov 16, 2005, 02:41 PM

Nokia's head designer was escorted from the premises the other day – he has just landed a job at apple apparantly . . . hmmmmmm

You sir, are completely and utterly WRONG. Frank Nuovo has not left Nokia, nor is there any indication that he will.

(Jonathan Ive designs the pants off that guy anyway)

cheekyspanky

Nov 16, 2005, 02:41 PM

Over the last two weeks I've been using several phones, an LG U8360 a Nokia N70 and a Motorola V3x.

LG was the worst to use, with Nokia and Motorola both having pretty much an equal number of positives and negatives.

The V3 has been a great success though, it's amazing it's still a good seller despite having been on sale for over a year.

philmo

Nov 16, 2005, 02:52 PM

Yes, I voted with my wallet after the V710 came out on Verizon. I really wanted a BT phone, but it was so crippled I switched over to AT+T and a SE T637, which does everything I need (works wonderfully with iSync through BT). Verizon used to be all about quality and service, but now they have become a large evil company, and I won't do business with them anymore.

That said, Cingular are getting just as bad.

Sometimes I think I should just give up and become a hermit. ;)

I was a reasonably happy Verizon customer 2 years ago, but tempted by a good AT&T deal and a bad experience with the "help" at a Verizon store I switched. AT&T was okay, but seems to have really gone downhill when it was switched to Cingular. Now my calls get dropped at a ridiculous rate (I'd guess 4 times per hour of usage) and am very unhappy with their customer support.

Eh. Maybe I should look at T-Mobile instead. Or the hermit thing...

dr_lha

Nov 16, 2005, 03:02 PM

I was a reasonably happy Verizon customer 2 years ago, but tempted by a good AT&T deal and a bad experience with the "help" at a Verizon store I switched. AT&T was okay, but seems to have really gone downhill when it was switched to Cingular. Now my calls get dropped at a ridiculous rate (I'd guess 4 times per hour of usage) and am very unhappy with their customer support.

Eh. Maybe I should look at T-Mobile instead. Or the hermit thing...

Yeah, I had that issue a few months ago with Cingular, the transistion period was pretty crappy. It seems to have cleared up now though, and I'm fairly happy again.

I'm definitely not as happy with Cingular as I was with AT&T though. AT&T did some sweet deals for employees of the Uni I work for, 1 year only contract with very cheap phones, 10% discount off service.

Cingular don't even seem to have heard of a "1 year contract" these days, its 2 years or nothing.

Don't even get me started on the whole "charging 10 cents for incoming SMSs" thing!

iHavenolife

Nov 16, 2005, 03:45 PM

It needs to be picked up by more service providers.

Also it is an ugly looking thing anyway.

madamimadam

Nov 16, 2005, 04:16 PM

Why oh Why didn't Steve do some user research before he chose to partner with Motorola...

Because Motorola's design hurts Motorola but pays Apple
Seems pretty simple
You not going to buy an iPod because you don't like a Motorola phone that has iTunes?

Woah hold on... are you saying that you actually like the Motorolas? You will be the first that I have met in a while!!!! ;)

Everyone I've met with the E398, which I'm lead to believe it pretty much the same as the phone in question but with no iTunes, thinks they are great expect for geeks who post on Apple forums. The only problem I have is a couple of little software issues such as no automatic key lock and when I set a personal ring tone for someone in my phonebook that ringtone is also used for messages.

Moto and Apple should take a clue from Nokia.

Why does Apple need to take a clue... iTunes looked pretty good last time I checked

Why don't Apple simply release iTunes software for Symbian UIQ, Symbian S60 and whatever other phone operating systems there are? Then anyone can have iTunes on their phone.

They would make money from that fantastic idea how?

You guys have it all wrong, this phone was the result of THREE companies working on the product. You conveniently left out Apple, who probably is to blame for the phone having a LAME 100 song limit.

They probably have aspirations of their own and saw this as a way to test the market without first bringing out their own product.

The ROKR is and will be a failure because Apple limited its functionality early on in the design process.

Yeah, so I liked how your "probably" became a truth at the end there. How about you come back with a little evidence.

Then the phone would be become plain and unexciting like every other phone.

I'm getting a feeling like you aren't really much of an Apple fan but, if that is the case, what are you doing here? I hope you life isn't so painful that this is how you stop the razor from reaching your wrists.

As for the user interface, motorola have the worst user interface of any phone out there. Even people I know who love their RAZRs will admit that.

All the regular people (non-techos) that I've met that have a NEW Motorola say they are fantastic. The SE interface really has to be learnt because it is not user friendly. Someone like me who is a little more cluely on tech stuff can easily find my way around and work a SE phone but these phones should be made for the masses. Nokia is mostly quite good but I've been told that, again, for a regular person some of the features outside of make a call or send a message can be tricky to get to. On one of the phones I know someone who said they hated using Bluetooth because they had to go through too many menus. Now, there may be a shortcut for this but if the average person can not find it then it is hopeless.

I must admit though, the Motorola interface only becomes easy when you switch the menu from icons to words and icons but on the plus side it offers you the customisation page as the first screen when you start up your phone for the first time.

Apple won't let iTunes work with a phone that can store 1000 songs. Doing so would cannibalize iPod sales. Part of Apple's philosophy with the ROKR was to limit it to 100 songs so everyone would see how much cellular phones suck as MP3 players and how much better the iPod is. This strategy certainly worked with the ROKR.

Again, do we have some fact to back up this claim of Apple doing this?

kretzy

Nov 16, 2005, 08:08 PM

I'll give you the RAZR, its a nice looking phone, but everything else motorola make looks like crap. As for the user interface, motorola have the worst user interface of any phone out there. Even people I know who love their RAZRs will admit that. Nokia have one of the clearest and best interfaces out there today, and its unified over their range of phones.

For the record, I own a Sony Ericcson phone myself, and in the past have owned Nokia, Samsung, Kyocera and Motorola phones. Nokia have by far the best UI out of all these phones. The Motorola phone I had had an interface so unusable it took me about 10 key presses to make a call from the phone book. RAZR is improved, but still lags behind both SE and Nokia (Nokia is the better of the two).

I couldn't agree more. The UI is just the worst out there. I find using my dad's RAZR a complete pain, he can barely use it. My fav phones are samsungs...they generally look great and i think the UI is comparably as simple as Nokia (well on the E700 anyway).

dr_lha

Nov 16, 2005, 08:37 PM

All the regular people (non-techos) that I've met that have a NEW Motorola say they are fantastic.
Not my experience, and clearly not the experience of many of the posters on here. Actually one of the "regular" people I know exchanged his RAZR because "Great phone, but I can't figure out how to use it", he got a Samsung instead and is very happy, despite the extra "chunkyness".

madamimadam

Nov 16, 2005, 09:00 PM

Not my experience, and clearly not the experience of many of the posters on here. Actually one of the "regular" people I know exchanged his RAZR because "Great phone, but I can't figure out how to use it", he got a Samsung instead and is very happy, despite the extra "chunkyness".

Again, the posters aren't regular people and instead represent a selection of geeks who like to have a say... far from a true distribution of the demographic now isn't it?!

Really, if you have it set up in word mode, what could be so hard. I want to make a phone call, I press "Phonebook" and either scroll to the person or press the letter of their name. I want to send a message, I press "Messages" and "New Message" and then I type. If you can't understand an interface like that you need to face the fact that you are too dumb to own a mobile phone.

corbin_a2

Nov 16, 2005, 09:47 PM

I'll give you the RAZR, its a nice looking phone, but everything else motorola make looks like crap. As for the user interface, motorola have the worst user interface of any phone out there. Even people I know who love their RAZRs will admit that. Nokia have one of the clearest and best interfaces out there today, and its unified over their range of phones.

For the record, I own a Sony Ericcson phone myself, and in the past have owned Nokia, Samsung, Kyocera and Motorola phones. Nokia have by far the best UI out of all these phones. The Motorola phone I had had an interface so unusable it took me about 10 key presses to make a call from the phone book. RAZR is improved, but still lags behind both SE and Nokia (Nokia is the better of the two).

Sorry, don't agree. Nokia phones are the worst in my book. The UI is just junk, I don't like it. I never had any problems with Motorola's (I have have had about every new model since the Startac.). I have a E815 now and love it! Different people have different opinions, but to say that all Motorola phones are crap is just wrong.

kev0476

Nov 16, 2005, 09:58 PM

I am surprised that these phones keep coming out, i mean wouldn't they cut into the ipod sales and then with the phones apple has to share the profits with Motorola.

Just seems like the ipod is the way to go for apple or for them to make their own ipod phone that revolves around the ipod design, that would be sweet.:D

DaveClarkOne

Nov 16, 2005, 11:36 PM

The RAZR is "sad on styling?" You are in the definite minority bub. Or perhaps you're one of the few tooling around in a stylish Pontiac Aztek?

Motorola, in case you haven't noticed, is on a tear (check the stock man). Flip phones offer a choice benefit: SMALL SIZE! Geez, I can't believe this needs to be pointed out. The iPod NANO is popular for the same reason.

Motorola ain't perfect, but it beats the phones the others are selling, at least on style. The Samsungs and Sanyos are among the most overstyled phones out there (read: UGLY). I realize some of this is personal, but the RAZR is a certifiable hit regardless.

iTunes is nice on the phone but the ROKR is just a phone with no style. The RAZR is perty sad on styling. Moto and Apple should take a clue from Nokia. Style and Functionality can be had in a phone at a reasonabl price. For functionality the N80 can't be beat. http://www.nokia.com/nseries/index.html?loc=inside,main_n80 For style the 8800 is very nice http://www.nokia8800.com/

Tupring

Nov 17, 2005, 01:54 AM

Us haters of flip phones seem to have little choice these days. Personally I have a SE phone, which does everything I want (Bluetooth, Camera, non-flip phone, decent phone), however looking at the Cingular Store I see that they don't even sell a non-flip SE phone any more. In fact the only feature rich non-flip phone that isn't a PDA/Blackberry is the ROKR.

Everyone else the the world has decent choice in phones, why is the US so obsessed with flip-phones that you can't even get anything else any more?What's wrong with flip phones?

Tupring

Nov 17, 2005, 02:48 AM

Yeah, I had that issue a few months ago with Cingular, the transistion period was pretty crappy. It seems to have cleared up now though, and I'm fairly happy again.

I'm definitely not as happy with Cingular as I was with AT&T though. AT&T did some sweet deals for employees of the Uni I work for, 1 year only contract with very cheap phones, 10% discount off service.

Cingular don't even seem to have heard of a "1 year contract" these days, its 2 years or nothing.

Don't even get me started on the whole "charging 10 cents for incoming SMSs" thing!T-Mobile has a 1 year contract, $39.99 for 600 minutes plus free nights and weekends or $49.99 for 1500 minutes plus free nights and weekends.

macam

Nov 17, 2005, 04:09 AM

Because Motorola's design hurts Motorola but pays Apple
Seems pretty simple
You not going to buy an iPod because you don't like a Motorola phone that has iTunes?

Yeah it may pay apple but I feel slightly let down by them - as I work in the telecoms industry and was highly looking forward to Apple's first forray into the mobile phone sector. It's such a huge market that he couldn't possibly get into otherwise...

Everyone I've met with the E398, which I'm lead to believe it pretty much the same as the phone in question but with no iTunes, thinks they are great expect for geeks who post on Apple forums.

You calling me a geek!?:eek: - As I mentioned before I work in the industry - everyone who uses a Motorola for a while gets so fed up with it that they either go back to SE or Nokia. I don't know where you're posting from but in the UK - the trend that I am seeing - within the SME market and Blue Chip companies - are tending to go for Nokia phones and then they go for the SE phones.

All the regular people (non-techos) that I've met that have a NEW Motorola say they are fantastic. The SE interface really has to be learnt because it is not user friendly. Someone like me who is a little more cluely on tech stuff can easily find my way around and work a SE phone but these phones should be made for the masses. Nokia is mostly quite good but I've been told that, again, for a regular person some of the features outside of make a call or send a message can be tricky to get to. On one of the phones I know someone who said they hated using Bluetooth because they had to go through too many menus. Now, there may be a shortcut for this but if the average person can not find it then it is hopeless.

I think that's untrue - just because you're a techy person - doesn't mean that the people beneath you can't do stuff. I know complete technophobes who are able to pair a bluetooth headset for the first time (like my mum!) without any help and she has a nokia!

I think we're going to have to agree that it's completely down to personal preference, and also what you're used to. I grew up using Windows. Knew how it worked and loved it because I didn't know any different! Then I switched... because I was introduced to Mac and loved the simplicity, design, GUI etc etc...

I must admit though, the Motorola interface only becomes easy when you switch the menu from icons to words and icons but on the plus side it offers you the customisation page as the first screen when you start up your phone for the first time.?

However you look at it - you have about twice as many clicks to do the simplist thing on a moto.

Sorry not trying to sound harsh here... just giving my 2 cents worth! Still can't believe you called me a geek tho!!!!!:D

macam

madamimadam

Nov 17, 2005, 04:51 AM

I think that's untrue - just because you're a techy person - doesn't mean that the people beneath you can't do stuff. I know complete technophobes who are able to pair a bluetooth headset for the first time (like my mum!) without any help and she has a nokia!

You can't call a personal experience untrue. This is what this person told me and therefore it is true in their experience. Like I said, there may have been an easy way to do it but if they couldn't work out the easy way then the UI didn't work for them. I didn't say the regular person couldn't do it just that it was difficult.

However you look at it - you have about twice as many clicks to do the simplist thing on a moto.

How do you figure? Call someone = PhoneBook (1-click), Scroll (1-click), Ring button (1-click). How could you do it in less?

Sorry not trying to sound harsh here... just giving my 2 cents worth! Still can't believe you called me a geek tho!!!!!:D

You are posting on a forum called macrumors... what, are you a uni student doing a study on geebs? I'd say you are likely a geek!

Mass Hysteria

Nov 17, 2005, 09:09 AM

You sir, are completely and utterly WRONG. Frank Nuovo has not left Nokia, nor is there any indication that he will.

(Jonathan Ive designs the pants off that guy anyway)

I referred to the HEAD designer of Nokia – he worked in Farnborough here in the UK, not the Vice President of Nokia and CHIEF Designer!

. . . and yes he was frog-marched from the building when they found he had a new job with Apple

dr_lha

Nov 17, 2005, 10:24 AM

What's wrong with flip phones?
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with flip phones, I just personally don't like them, and would rather that phone companies would allow me to choose whether I want one or not, rather than having 25 flip phones and one low end regular phone.

If you look at the UK market you'll find that you get a much larget choice of phones, and that is really all I want from the US carriers: Choice.

dr_lha

Nov 17, 2005, 10:27 AM

T-Mobile has a 1 year contract, $39.99 for 600 minutes plus free nights and weekends or $49.99 for 1500 minutes plus free nights and weekends.
Yeah, I'm thinking when I switch thats who I'll go with. Both Verizon and Cingular give crappy deals now ($14 a month extra on a share plan to get nights starting from 7pm instead of 9pm? On AT&T 7pm nighhts were standard on my plan).

nbs2

Nov 17, 2005, 09:40 PM

destroyboredom

Nov 17, 2005, 11:23 PM

I'm not a fan of flip phones either. I recently bought a SE S710A and am pretty happy with it. (I don't consider it a flip phone)

As for service. Cingular is a rip off as far as plans in my opinion. I was a happy At&t customer.

In a bit of irony though, there billing dept. called me today on my way from work, and about 30 sec. into the call, the call got dropped.

ScubaDuc

Nov 18, 2005, 03:18 PM

Almost. The one fancy feature that I would like to have is bluetooth. If Nokia does something like that, I think I've found my next phone.

The funny thing is that I actually phoned Nokia's investor relation and asked them for an i-Tune compatible phone...:rolleyes:

I think Nokia's are way better than SonyEricsson's phones. I've dropped my old Nokia from my Duc at over 40 mph and it was still working after I've picked it up! :)

sjo

Nov 19, 2005, 08:44 AM

Almost. The one fancy feature that I would like to have is bluetooth. If Nokia does something like that, I think I've found my next phone.

something like this?

http://www.nokia.co.uk/nokia/0,,71687,00.html

bigandy

Nov 19, 2005, 09:25 AM

So.... In order for Motorola to fix the ROKR to your satisfaction, someone else must manufacture it? Nothing else they do can ever make it OK for you?

And people think Apple zealots are weird....

i've never liked motorola phones. the interface i've always found useless, and the styling poor. i've been through phases with all the manufacturers, and can get along with most phones, except theirs. motorola's products really don't work well with me. i don't know why, but that's the fact.

i currently have a P900 and K750i, both from SonyEricsson. now i know they both have their little problems but given an unbiased look, i cannot fault them at all. every moto product i've ever picked up i've found feature, be it design or operating system related, i really could do without. and the latest occurrence of this was actually with SE - the P990 development model. it's minging. i hated it. i'll stick with my existing phones until they get one right. simple as that.

i'm not sure i'm making sense...