Firewire to USB 2.0 adapter?

[Cursor]

Thanks in advance for any help given. I have a Rev. A iMac G4 running Panther. A family member gave me a new external dual layer DVD burner for my birthday. My dilemma is that it uses USB 2.0 to connect to the computer. My iMac only has firewire and USB 1.0 (which is much too slow to burn DL DVDs). Does anybody know if there are any USB 2.0 adapters that would work with my firewire ports? Or is there another way to hook up this external burner? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

[ftaok]

Thanks in advance for any help given. I have a Rev. A iMac G4 running Panther. A family member gave me a new external dual layer DVD burner for my birthday. My dilemma is that it uses USB 2.0 to connect to the computer. My iMac only has firewire and USB 1.0 (which is much too slow to burn DL DVDs). Does anybody know if there are any USB 2.0 adapters that would work with my firewire ports? Or is there another way to hook up this external burner? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.Nope. You're better off returning it for a Firewire model.

The G4 iMac doesn't have any expandability (i.e. PCI slots, PC Card slot), so you can't get an aftermarket USB2 card.

This is the same issue with people wanting the new iPods and nanos, but not having USB2.

[Cursor]

That's what I was thinking, too. I just wanted to make sure there wasn't any external hardware option (like somekind of bridge) before I went to the trouble of returning it.

[grapes911]

That's what I was thinking, too. I just wanted to make sure there wasn't any external hardware option (like somekind of bridge)
The bridge would require a processor to do conversions, memory to work with, probably a hard drive for a buffer. Basically, you'd need another computer. Probably best to just return it.

[topgunn]

How about something like this (http://esd.element5.com/product.html?productid=527950&stylefrom=527950&backlink=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pixela-1.com%2Fcapycable.htm&noquickbuy=1)? For $90, it ain't cheap and it is designed for DV camcorders to be used without a firewire connection but the idea is still the same.

The problem is that demand is not strong for this sort of item. The market would consist of Mac users owning 3-5 year old computers that have firewire 400 but USB 1.1. That is roughly 40% of the Mac market which is 5% or so of the total market, so not much.

[grapes911]

How about something like this (http://esd.element5.com/product.html?productid=527950&stylefrom=527950&backlink=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pixela-1.com%2Fcapycable.htm&noquickbuy=1)? For $90, it ain't cheap and it is designed for DV camcorders to be used without a firewire connection but the idea is still the same.
That won't work. You need the exact opposite cable.

[cube]

The bridge would require a processor to do conversions, memory to work with, probably a hard drive for a buffer. Basically, you'd need another computer. Probably best to just return it.

If USB2 can be throttled to 400 Mbps there's no need for such crazy specs.

[grapes911]

If USB2 can be throttled to 400 Mbps there's no need for such crazy specs.
But the user doesn't have USB 2.0, only USB 1.1 and FW. That is the whole point of this thread.

[Cursor]

Looks like I'll be returning it. Thanks a lot for all the advice.

[cube]

But the user doesn't have USB 2.0, only USB 1.1 and FW. That is the whole point of this thread.

The bridge should throttle the USB2, that's what we are talking about.

[grapes911]

The bridge should throttle the USB2, that's what we are talking about.
Now you just repeated yourself. I'm sorry, I really don't know what you are talking about. Please expand and give some more info. :o :confused:

[balamw]

I'm sorry, I really don't know what you are talking about.
I believe what he's saying is that if you can be sure that the USB data rate will be kept below 400 MBps (throttled back from the 480 Mbps burst rate possible in USB2) that the circuitry could be made simpler/cheaper.

I disagree, since there will generally be some overhead required to translate between the two protocols. The data packets (length header format, etc...) for the two protocols are most likely different, so it's not just a simple 1:1 bridge

The evidence I have for that is that the reverse devices that allow you to connect nominally lower bandwidth firewire devices in to USB2 are generally not inexpensive like the one that was mentioned above.

It should also be noted that the Pixela device mentioned above is not presented as a general USB to Firewire solution as it seems to only support firewire DV camcorders.

B

[Laser47]

Cant you remove the cd burner from the enclosure and put it in your imac?

[grapes911]

I believe what he's saying is that if you can be sure that the USB data rate will be kept below 400 MBps (throttled back from the 480 Mbps burst rate possible in USB2) that the circuitry could be made simpler/cheaper.If that is what he is saying, the I'm pretty sure it won't work. USB 2.0 runs at 480 or 11. There is nothing in between.

I disagree, since there will generally be some overhead required to translate between the two protocols. The data packets (length header format, etc...) for the two protocols are most likely different, so it's not just a simple 1:1 bridgeVery true. Conversion must be done.

[Cursor]

Cant you remove the cd burner from the enclosure and put it in your imac?

I guess I could. But I'm not that technical with taking apart the sunflower iMacs. How hard is it to do? Would the computer be able to recognize the drive?

[grapes911]

Cant you remove the cd burner from the enclosure and put it in your imac?
That would be a very expensive internal drive. It would be much cheaper to return it get an actual internal one. Not to mention it probably would void the warranty.

[belvdr]

Not to mention it probably would void the warranty.

Don't think he has to worry about that with an iMac G4.. :)

[grapes911]

Don't think he has to worry about that with an iMac G4.. :)
I mean the warranty on the drive.

[cube]

I disagree, since there will generally be some overhead required to translate between the two protocols. The data packets (length header format, etc...) for the two protocols are most likely different, so it's not just a simple 1:1 bridge


There's no problem making little SCSI/FireWire converters, why should there be one making USB/FireWire [chips]?

[cube]

If that is what he is saying, the I'm pretty sure it won't work. USB 2.0 runs at 480 or 11. There is nothing in between.


It doesn't mean the devices can continously send at 480. This happens when you have more than one device trying to communicate at the same time, so in the same way one device could be throttled by the converter.

[grapes911]

It doesn't mean the devices can continously send at 480. This happens when you have more than one device trying to communicate at the same time, so in the same way one device could be throttled by the converter.
I'm pretty sure that it does mean that all packets are sent at 480. When there are multiple devices, they just take turns sending packets. Individual packets do not slow down.

[belvdr]

I mean the warranty on the drive.

Oh.. :) I knew I missed something there.

[belvdr]

There's no problem making little SCSI/FireWire converters, why should there be one making USB/FireWire [chips]?

That's a good point. I've seen two DAT drives connect over Firewire this way.

[Makosuke]

How about something like this (http://esd.element5.com/product.html?productid=527950&stylefrom=527950&backlink=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pixela-1.com%2Fcapycable.htm&noquickbuy=1)? For $90, it ain't cheap and it is designed for DV camcorders to be used without a firewire connection but the idea is still the same.Worth noting that "This" seems to be a very specific piece of hardware for converting a DV stream to some sort of USB2 stream; it's not just a data converter, as evidenced by the fact you have to order an NTSC or PAL version, depending on the type of video you're using.

And although I don't clearly understand the specifics of the various busses, I *think* the version that FW-USB2 converters don't exist is because the busses have fundamentally different ways of handling negotiation and data transfer. It's not so much a matter of amount of information, as the protocol. The reason FW-SCSI converters can work (actually, SCSI-USB1, too--they used to make those right after the first USB-only iMacs came out), even though the technologies are more "different", is because of the relative simplicity of the older SCSI bus formats--there's no issues with negotiation, variable speed, etc on it. FW may also have been specifically designed to include some of SCSI's features, but I'm not sure about that.

The other possibility is that it's just not much of a market; while there are some people with USB2 ports but no FW who might be interested in getting DV into their computer, almost nobody till now has USB2 peripherals but only a FW port, since USB is more common on Wintel boxes.

Maybe the USB2-only iPods will create enough of a market of older Macs that someone will produce a specialty product if it's technically feasable, though.

[balamw]

FW may also have been specifically designed to include some of SCSI's features, but I'm not sure about that.
I think you're right about the inherent similarities between FireWire and SCSI. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FireWire.

I've always thought that was a fair comparison.

FireWire :: SCSI (High performance comes with low CPU load, daisychainable, $$$)
USB :: ATAPI (performance comes with moderate CPU load, limited device connections, $)

B

[cube]

I'm pretty sure that it does mean that all packets are sent at 480. When there are multiple devices, they just take turns sending packets. Individual packets do not slow down.

I am saying that you allow less turns to the device, not that you slow down the packets.

[belvdr]

I think you're right about the inherent similarities between FireWire and SCSI. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FireWire.

I've always thought that was a fair comparison.

FireWire :: SCSI (High performance comes with low CPU load, daisychainable, $$$)
USB :: ATAPI (performance comes with moderate CPU load, limited device connections, $)

B

I thought USB and Firewire had the same amount of devices to be daisychained. It's been so long since I even thought about that.

At any rate, has anyone ever seen someone with more than 5 or 6 daisychained devices? That would be an interesting mess of cables.

[grapes911]

I am saying that you allow less turns to the device, not that you slow down the packets.
If it could work, someone would have already done it.

[cube]

If it could work, someone would have already done it.

It's because there's not a monstruous demand.

[grapes911]

It's because there's not a monstruous demand.
That's BS. I'm sure people would have a use for this. Even if there was little demand, you'd still be able to find it somewhere. I think you are just trying to troll around. It's just not possible.

[cube]

That's BS. I'm sure people would have a use for this. Even if there was little demand, you'd still be able to find it somewhere. I think you are just trying to troll around. It's just not possible.

There's no FireWire/SCSI controller faster than 20 MB/s for a lack of adequate controller chips. The market needs to be huge if you have to make an affordable new IC (and if you want to implement an ASIC or FPGA for a smaller market, how much would it cost?). This could be the block.

[grapes911]

Q Is USB and Firewire the same thing?
A No. Although they provide similar performance, they operate completely differently and are not compatible.

Q Is there an adapter to convert Firewire to USB so I can plug a Firewire device into my USB port?
A No. As mentioned above, they are not compatible and conversion devices are not (as far as we are currently aware) available. link (http://www.mrusb.co.uk/catalog/faq.php)

Q: Can I convert Firewire to USB?
A: NO!!!! If you wish to connect a Firewire device you will need Firewire Ports on your computer.link (http://www.cableuniverse.co.uk/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=22)

There is no such thing, because FireWire and USB are completely different standards; you can't convert the flow of data of one of them into a flow of data for the other.link (http://www.pcbuyerbeware.co.uk/USB.htm)

The two technologies are not integrated, and it is not possible to connect a USB device to a Firewire port either directly or through the use of a Firewire to USB adapter.link (http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-firewire-to-usb-adapter.htm)

[belvdr]

How about a SCSI to Firewire to Serial to Ultra/133 then over to the DDR2 memory bank then back to PCI?

Just kidding.. :)

[Err]

this is so silly, is usb to firewire, firewire to usb possible? 100% yes, is there any demand for it almost 0, why do we know this, because most devices come both, who would buy a 100$ usb burner then a firewire to usb converter? instead of buying the right drive the first time? very few people, the demand is almost zero, no profit = nobody making it, its that simple. there are firewire to scsi, usb to scsi, firewire to ide, usb to ide, if there were more then a few people out there who wanted this silly device we would have them.

[macaddictann]

I'm in the same sort of boat, having gotten a USB2 external HD for Christmas but being on a 5-year-old Powerbook with no USB2 capability.

Someone I know wondered if this (http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=513590) would take care of it. I said it didn't sound like anything would, and there are other hubs for both that say they don't convert, but he thought this was different. Thoughts?

And if all else fails, anyone want to buy an NIB, mint 120 GB drive? :D

[grapes911]

this is so silly, is usb to firewire, firewire to usb possible? 100% yes, No, No, No, No, No. Zero percent possible.

Someone I know wondered if this (http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=513590) would take care of it. I said it didn't sound like anything would, and there are other hubs for both that say they don't convert, but he thought this was different. Thoughts?Those hubs do not convert. They are merely two hubs (1 FW and 1 USB) in one box.

[ftaok]

No, No, No, No, No. Zero percent possible.
grapes911,

Never say never. I'm sure a Firewire to USB converter is possible. It just depends on what your definition of a converter is. For example, I can hook up my iBook to a USB drive and a Firewire drive and copy from one to the other. In this case, my iBook is a USB to FW converter.

Of course, a Mac is a little bit of overkill for what we're really talking about. But really, how hard would it be to design a converter with the necessary hardware to allow for USB to FW connections? Sure, it'll probably cost more than a simple USB to Serial adapter, but if there was a big enough market, someone might make it.

ft

[grapes911]

grapes911,

Never say never. I'm sure a Firewire to USB converter is possible. It just depends on what your definition of a converter is. For example, I can hook up my iBook to a USB drive and a Firewire drive and copy from one to the other. In this case, my iBook is a USB to FW converter.

Of course, a Mac is a little bit of overkill for what we're really talking about. But really, how hard would it be to design a converter with the necessary hardware to allow for USB to FW connections? Sure, it'll probably cost more than a simple USB to Serial adapter, but if there was a big enough market, someone might make it.

ft
If you read the entire thread, you'd see that I already said:The bridge would require a processor to do conversions, memory to work with, probably a hard drive for a buffer. Basically, you'd need another computer.

[hughesdc]

If you read the entire thread, you'd see that I already said:

It has got to be possible. That is what I am doing with my two external hard drives. I have a USB 2 drive daisy chained into a firewire drive into my computer. Works great. So it must be possible.

[hughesdc]

It has got to be possible. That is what I am doing with my two external hard drives. I have a USB 2 drive daisy chained into a firewire drive into my computer. Works great. So it must be possible.

Here is a great site with many options.
http://www.greatcables.com/GCUSBABFM

[Mindflux]

Here is a great site with many options.
http://www.greatcables.com/GCUSBABFM


That's a B to A USB converter.

heh

[yellowslide2]

is it possible to get a USB to Scsi converter than use an Scsi to firewire converter?