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View Full Version : got my new 15" powerbook lines = yes


Gokhan
Nov 17, 2005, 02:15 PM
i got my new 15" powerbook today very quick for apple to deliver
but the line issue exists on my one too !!!

although its not as bad as some make out i could live with it but for the price tag i will not !!!

so my question is does the 17" suffer from this issue ?

i tested all 15" pbs in the apple regent street store and all the tech did not even know about the problem :mad:

once i showed crankycat pb problems website they all agreed it was a issue !

the 17" i saw in store appeard not to have the line issue but i need confirmation from other users chip in with ur views ??

so is thier a fix on the way for this or am i going to have to ask for a
refund ?

anthonys
Nov 17, 2005, 05:02 PM
None of the 17" powerbooks I've seen have that problem, but in my opinion they have a worse problem. The screens are very unevenly lit, with dark edges and a distict glow along the bottom, especially when viewed on a white background. The 15" screen, even with the lines, still looks a lot better.

RHMMMM
Nov 17, 2005, 06:04 PM
I have a 17" and have no issues at all - I love it. Bought it 1 day after they came out, no regrets!

Gokhan
Nov 18, 2005, 07:50 AM
well after 17" is ****ed so is the 15" what the hell do i get i am waiting to hear from apple customer realtions to see what they can do !!!

dont get me wrong the problem with the 15" aint that bad but for 1200 it is not acceptable so unless they sweaten the deal REFUND is the word

tekmoe
Nov 18, 2005, 08:12 AM
poor old 15" users... :rolleyes:

MacRumorUser
Nov 18, 2005, 05:23 PM
Just recieved mine and the 'problem' seems to have been greatly exagerated.

It's like a collective panic going on around the forum, mines got lines - mines got bigger lines - my lines are so big that an airplane just used my screen as a runway :p

I honestly can only see the lines if I force myself to look for them at about 2 inchs away from the screen, this subject has to be the most 'subjective' issue of any on the forums.

Gokhan
Nov 18, 2005, 06:19 PM
as i stated IT IS NOT A VERY BIG ISSUE but for a pro consumer product not acceptable and after getting ****ed around by apple who did not offer a fix or do anything other than offer me a refund i have had enough and am sending mine back so maybe my money will just stay in my pocket although i have a freind going to hong kong so if its cheap i will pick up a 12" so screewww you apple !!!

Chrispy
Nov 18, 2005, 06:21 PM
as i stated IT IS NOT A VERY BIG ISSUE but for a pro consumer product not acceptable and after getting ****ed around by apple who did not offer a fix or do anything other than offer me a refund i have had enough and am sending mine back so maybe my money will just stay in my pocket although i have a freind going to hong kong so if its cheap i will pick up a 12" so screewww you apple !!!

Yeah for a pro level machine this is NOT something that should be tolerated.

Gokhan
Nov 18, 2005, 06:35 PM
also does anyone know where i can order the rev before the new powerbook in the usa that will ship to the uk or i do have a friend who is in new york who might be able to pick me one up !

any suggestions ??

Bibulous
Nov 18, 2005, 07:02 PM
also does anyone know where i can order the rev before the new powerbook in the usa that will ship to the uk or i do have a friend who is in new york who might be able to pick me one up !

any suggestions ??


B+H Photo in NYC probably still has them.

Apple has them on there webstore under the deals section.

Gokhan
Nov 18, 2005, 07:09 PM
so would anyone here be willing to pick me one up and ship it to me for an extra fee of course or is there a store where i can order from that will ship to the uk ?

3dit3r
Nov 18, 2005, 08:15 PM
as i stated IT IS NOT A VERY BIG ISSUE but for a pro consumer product not acceptable and after getting ****ed around by apple who did not offer a fix or do anything other than offer me a refund i have had enough and am sending mine back so maybe my money will just stay in my pocket although i have a freind going to hong kong so if its cheap i will pick up a 12" so screewww you apple !!!

It's not a pro product if anyone can afford it, which most consumers can. Either way, pro products are not perfect regardless of price or how it is marketed. Remember that we are talking about electronics. 60K AVID's have problems, 30K decks have problems, 100K cameras have problems. As a pro user of 'pro' products, you learn how to deal with the imperfect nature of electronics. Those that expect a perfect machine because, in their minds, the price is high enough to deem it as a 'pro' product, is somewhat naive.

This is a very subjective issue. Some deal with it, others can't. However, it seems as if mass hysteria has taken over in place of rational thinking. It appears that many are simply passing judgement on the machine without even trying it out. Everyone should decide for themselves if the display is a problem. Accusing Apple of poor QC and implying negligence on their part is overreacting. The fact that many users are fine with the display supports Apple's claims that the display is well within specs. Right or wrong, I do see their point. Just sayin' btw.

Also, if you're buying the 12" then you're not really sticking it to the man since Apple is still getting your money. ;)

generik
Nov 18, 2005, 08:28 PM
It's like a collective panic going on around the forum, mines got lines - mines got bigger lines - my lines are so big that an airplane just used my screen as a runway :p

Thanks for making my day :D

Gokhan
Nov 18, 2005, 08:49 PM
yeah well after some carefull thinking apple have still got my money i will go for the new 17" as they dont seem to suffer from this issue are there any of the new 17" owners who can comment on any problems that it may have when i tested in store i could not see any ???

Chrispy
Nov 18, 2005, 08:51 PM
Why do people keep making excuses for Apple and trying to say it is ok to ship bad products??? :confused: I have owned many Dell computers and monitors over the years and not one of them had a defect. The screens were always beautiful, no hardware problems and many times better build quality (the Dell Dimension 9100 I owned for awhile was way more quiet than both PM I have used). That said, I enjoy Mac OS and I love the look of Apple products but that is no excuse for poor quality.

Chrispy
Nov 18, 2005, 08:56 PM
yeah well after some carefull thinking apple have still got my money i will go for the new 17" as they dont seem to suffer from this issue are there any of the new 17" owners who can comment on any problems that it may have when i tested in store i could not see any ???

All floor models I have seen of the 17" were beautiful. Very bright and very crisp :) If I had the cash I would get one of those.

Gokhan
Nov 18, 2005, 09:01 PM
i feel the same i am being forced to spend an extra 250 for a 17" just so i am guranteed no issues but i am so desperate to just start using the new powerbook i have been saving up for that i am gonna let it slide but apple's stance is disgracefull i did write an email to the managers and got a reply saying how sorry they was etc but since ordering i have had nothing but sheer hell from address confirmation to actually receiving the product even going to the regent store and being told there was no such problem until i demonstrated using crankycat page which got all the tech's attention and they started questioning me for 1hr and noting things (:

oh well what can i do ?

nothing being trying all week not a goodwill gesture ,discount, nada ,so much for customer satisfaction !!!

Arcus
Nov 18, 2005, 09:58 PM
Just recieved mine and the 'problem' seems to have been greatly exagerated.

It's like a collective panic going on around the forum, mines got lines - mines got bigger lines - my lines are so big that an airplane just used my screen as a runway :p

I honestly can only see the lines if I force myself to look for them at about 2 inchs away from the screen, this subject has to be the most 'subjective' issue of any on the forums.

While yours may be fine dont discount the problems others are having. There were some in the Sagemore Apple store that looked like crap. Others looked better but the lines were still very obvious.

IAmMeIAm
Nov 18, 2005, 10:17 PM
yeah well after some carefull thinking apple have still got my money i will go for the new 17" as they dont seem to suffer from this issue are there any of the new 17" owners who can comment on any problems that it may have when i tested in store i could not see any ???

I went from a line-infected 15" to the new 17", and I'm content. The only real issues with the 17" for me are the light bar at the bottom of the screen, and the tiny dark corners. However, unlike the 15", these are only on a small portion of the screen, and the lightbar issue isn't even really all that noticable in most cases.

Mine had issues out of the box--random kernel panics involving the Airport (with only 512MB of memory, and the Airport update installed), but a reformat/reinstall/reupgrade of everything appears to have resolved the problem (I ran the Apple Hardware Test in a loop 37 times, and everything passed, so I'm pretty sure it was a software issue.)

So now I'm happy--while both the 15" and 17" screens have flaws, I found the 15" distracting looking at almost anything (from over a foot away), and it occurs all over the screen. The 17"s problems are more avoidable, and less noticable for me.

Gokhan
Nov 19, 2005, 07:02 PM
well there goes my money again hopefully i am going to get a friend who has gone to hong kong for the week to pick me up a older model there its just finding it ! any help by people would be very nice !!

plinkoman
Nov 19, 2005, 10:38 PM
if you get one of the new 17" powerbooks, you'll be happy with it http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif

no lines whatsoever, it's an absolutely beautiful display, and i love having as much space as a normal 20" display

though i did have one problem with mine, my ac adapter was doa :rolleyes:, but since the machine itself is in everyway perfect, and i now have a working adapter, i can over look the incident.

i would definately recommend getting one of these over a previous rev, after using this one, i don't think i could live with a display 46% less bright and without this many pixels

deanwaterman
Nov 19, 2005, 11:07 PM
I was reading a number of the posts recently that deal with quality issues. If you don't mind reading on, I would like to suggest a theory based on experience...

I worked for Video Concepts and Circuit City for quite some time. I watched different manufacturers and their quality as they came through the store. The once brand that I saw a marked difference in while I was in the Audio/Video biz was Sony. I know that might sound strange, but yes indeed Sony.

I saw the quality of Sony drop as the consumer demand for Sony products rose. People began to come in and ask for Sony products first, and then allow us (sometimes) to show them products from other companies who we believed had a better product at the time. We saw numerous quality issues with TV's, stereos and the likes. You could say we saw more issues because we sold more units, but I don't think that is the case.

We looked inside a Sony reciever at one time and saw the heat dissapator had gone from an aluminum block to tin foil (exaggeration to get my point across). This saves them money. Not alot, but every short cut here and there saves money. When you are trying to raise your profit margin even by a percent or two, every penny saved is a penny to the bottom line.

How does that pertain to our Apple products?

As Apple has increased their recognition via the iPod, pro lines, and Macs, they have begun to come under increased pressure by shareholders and management itself to get more profits. When Apple was just selling computers and hacking away at 3% of the market, they HAD to make a quality product or risk ticking off the 3% of the people who bought their product. Yes, it may seem that Mac users are so die-hard that even they would drive a Yugo once-in-a-while, but in reality I don't think Apple wanted to take that chance.

When the iPod came out, in what seems like a decade ago, Apple saw that they had a winner on their hands. Before long, you see iPod sales going through the roof, and increased talk about the "halo effect", which is an industry term for a product that helps sell other product lines within the company. People bought iPods, they saw the product was awesome, well-built, and most of all easy to use, and they began to look at other things that Apple made, primarily iBooks, Macs, and the Mac Mini. Apple not only makes money on the iPod, but they start to move product from their other lines as well. The effect of this is that BW and other mags have been quoted as saying that 1 million PC users have switched to Macs this year alone. That is great for Mac users all around, since we know Apple is not going anywhere in the near future.

As the number of users grows, the number of products to sell has grown also. So you have to make more to sell more, and Apple needs to get them out as soon a possible, and they are willing, I believe, to risk quality issues to get them out. I think it goes along with the principle of easier to ask forgivness later than to get permission now. In other words, deal with the complaints as they come in, rather then heading them off now and risk delaying product shipments, and losing customers. The thought being that at least the customer spent money on the product, they are hooked, and you fix what you need to if it comes up.

Another aspect to consider is that now that the shine is on Apple, investors are demanding more profits, Wall Street is saying that Apple is a great buy, and these things combined means that Apple has to shave a penny here and there to increase profit margins and satisfy their shareholders and Wall Street. Again, if the shaving of a penny here and there affects quality, sell the product and deal with the complaints after they come in.

The new Nano and iPod are the perfect example of this thought process. I have had the 3rd, 4th and now 5th Generation iPod. To say that the 5th generation iPod has the same material make-up as the 4th generation is completely false. One has only to look at them to see that this is untrue. I had more scratches in 1 hour on my 5th gen iPod than I did in 1 month with the 4th and 3rd generation. Quality is down for sure.

The Nano is also suffering in quality issues. Apple was finally forced to do something because so many people complained. But they already had the product in their hand, so Apple still wins.

I see it going across the line to the computers as well. I have read numerous posts here and other sites about problems with the new Powerbooks and other products from Apple. Without a doubt the quality is down. It doesn't surprise me one bit. Apple isn't just for die-hard anymore. It is going mainstream. And with it comes the pressure of performance... to investors, shareholders and Wall Street.

Who suffers as a result? You and I.

We have stuck by them for this long. Will we continue to stick by Apple and watch the quality go down?

Only you and your wallet can decide that.

Thnks for reading. Your comments and thought would be HUGELY appreciated.

Dean Waterman

tekmoe
Nov 20, 2005, 12:02 AM
good theory.

generik
Nov 20, 2005, 12:59 AM
It is happening to all corporations I guess, Apple included.

fps
Nov 20, 2005, 05:23 AM
deanwaterman, you nailed the problem quite well. I don't think it's a theory I think it's what's happening. One of the things that bug me though is the willingness of many people to defend Apple and their products even when the products have defects! Mind boggling...

YS2003
Nov 20, 2005, 05:39 AM
Once the company reaches the point where it has upper-hands in the market, it will focus their marketing strategy differently compared to what it used to do as an underdog in the market. As the previous poster said, Apple's iPod lines have gained the title as the market leader and Apple does not need to keep selling iPods at high qualities. If a company is new to the market and does not establish its footing yet, it has to offer products/services which separtes it from compeititon (which is to offer high quality products, as one of many other options).

Morn
Nov 20, 2005, 08:36 AM
Your typically company would not remove their most successful product, ipod mini, and take a risk at replacing it with something that is quite different but smaller, nano. Apple seems to care about perfection even when they lead the market.
But I'm really not sure why they don't have more quality control, and don't make multiple revisions of logic boards to fix bugs like many other companies do.

tristan
Nov 20, 2005, 08:41 AM
Interesting theory, but it ignores the economics of quality. In the long run, its almost always much much cheaper to build a product right initially than to go back and fix it later.

Well, I'm going to head to the Apple store today and see if I can see those lines that everyone's talking about. I'm also going to buy my PB from a vendor with a liberal return policy, like Amazon.

MattG
Nov 20, 2005, 08:51 AM
i tested all 15" pbs in the apple regent street store and all the tech did not even know about the problem :mad:

I really believe that when rampant cases of quality control problems break out at Apple, the techs are told to play dumb.

Remember a couple years ago when the first 15" Al-Books came out, and like, EVERYONE on this board who bought one had the white spots? Apple's support forums were flooded with messages, MacRumors and all the other Mac boards were flooded with messages, Apple was getting tons of calls about it, and still...you'd call and it's, "what problem with white spots?"

Gokhan
Nov 20, 2005, 09:48 AM
you hit the nail on the head mate apple dont give a **** about us anymore well you know what and i am shocked to say i dont care about them anymore if my software collection was not mac they could stick thier machines right up thier big coporate arses !!

anyway i heard the new 17" has a unevenly lit display and has a light band a 3rd of the way down the display enough to put me off unless not all owners have this problem ? then i just might still go for it but i tell u never ever will i be taken for a emotional ride again so **** you apple stand up for what you really standed for quality not greed that microsofts arena!!! :mad:

revisionA
Nov 20, 2005, 11:41 AM
Computers were armored behemoths. Not long ago they took entire rooms, and once even an entire building.
They cost so much that even owning one seemed an achievement.
Some processes took long enough that you could make coffee, make love or make up for some lost sleep before the system would be responsive again.
We could prop our cars up on a tower case, and it was good.
Atari was your game console, Duran Duran ruled the airwaves.

The exodus.

Computers began to get smaller and lighter. But not by much.
They started wearing composite shells, plastic with a metal frame.
They cost a lot, but some people could afford to buy another in a year or two.
Some processes took long enough for you to sip your coffee or check your email before they were done.
We could somehow afford to buy music and computers and stay afloat. The price of gas was the same as a cup of coffee, or a little more.
Nintendo was your game console, and Guns and Roses was still a big name.

Wandering in the desert.

Computers begat laptops and laptops begat pdas. And cellphones slowly became the common headworm parasite. Laptops began stepping out of word processing arenas and towards replacing desktops. But the desktops had proliferated, and Windows had snuck up and suckpunched Macintosh. The internet grew up and then popped. And the stick mess remaining in 2/3 of its space, was pron. Napster became the channel for music and film, if you could afford broadband.
We all played playstation and mourned the loss of Nirvana.

Phoenix Rising.

Pdas begat mp3 players and mp3 players betrothed dvd players and brought forth pvps and psps and gadgets thought up by long time users of lsd. Many computers were now almost all plastic, bus speeds began to climb as did processor speeds. Pixel count and frame rate begame the topics young minds wandered. Suddenly roaring loud supercooled custom computers seemed almost cool, almost. IT careers were at their peak, and we all survived the Y2K bug better than we feared.
Xbox was here and PS2 was still better.

Future Outlook

Public information changes knowledge and public knowledge steers eternity. Modular systems begin to be developed, as do completely plastic or composite machines. Less and less moving parts, more light bridges and solid state drives push beyond theoretic processing limits. Laptops rule over desktops who in turn lumber off slowly in the powerful direction, laptops instead leaning on battery time and lightweight. Osx Cheetah and Windows Vista match consumer wits and find consumers becoming more and more informed. Crossplatform software suddenly becomes en vogue. Cell phones swallow up pdas and look hungrily and mp3 players and pvps. Canon will make a cellphone camera to spank all others. Some guy will make a motherboard chipset that runs at processor speed with integrated ddr8 256bit memory and totally forget we have run out of fossil fuel.

With every game console under our widescreen led-lcd's, and five portables in our laptop bag... video games became the drug of choice.

Its a good thing those laptops will weigh about a pounded, because we're gonna be using them on the bus.

$

generik
Nov 20, 2005, 02:31 PM
Yeap, and what I don't understand is why people keep making excuses to defend Apple's actions. Come on, Apple doesn't need you to jump to their defense.

With all this shoddy hardware it is really no surprise why Apple is so keen to lock OSX x86 to authorised macs only.

Screw them and their bubble world, not gonna happen.

londonweb
Nov 20, 2005, 03:23 PM
also does anyone know where i can order the rev before the new powerbook in the usa that will ship to the uk or i do have a friend who is in new york who might be able to pick me one up !

any suggestions ??


www.cancomuk.com - based in Croydon, branches in London and the south. Lots of older pb refurbs

very nice people

plinkoman
Nov 20, 2005, 03:26 PM
anyway i heard the new 17" has a unevenly lit display and has a light band a 3rd of the way down the display enough to put me off unless not all owners have this problem ? then i just might still go for it but i tell u never ever will i be taken for a emotional ride again so **** you apple stand up for what you really standed for quality not greed that microsofts arena!!! :mad:

mine doesn't...

i've never heard of this light band problem before, i certainly don't have it, and as for the backlight, yea, it's not perfectly even, but show me a display that is. not to mention that i have to try really really hard in order to even notice it anyways.

don't worry about it, problems get blown way out of proportion on here. remember the expression "you never hear about the planes that DO land"

londonweb
Nov 20, 2005, 04:06 PM
One of the things that bug me though is the willingness of many people to defend Apple and their products even when the products have defects! Mind boggling...

I completely agree! I joined this forum a few months back having bought a 2nd hand ibook that turned out to be a duffer- so many things went wrong with it I ended up selling it on ebay for spares.

When I posted questions here about it, for example when the combo drive gave up, I was told by some 'not to blame apple' because they don't manufacture their own drives!! To my mind this is an unbelievable mentality and it helps to protect apple from quality lapses because they know they have these die-hard users who will defend them simply because they love the brand.

Apple has always sold units in part because they are seen as the 'cool' or 'trendy' option, and now they are playing on this more than ever, but without the attention to the high quality and detail that always backed them up.

Gokhan
Nov 20, 2005, 06:17 PM
yeah cancom are very good but they are expensive i could get a refurb 15inch 1.67 1 gb ram 100gb hardrive from apple for 1364 which is still think is too much considering with edu discount i am getting a newer machine for 1189 unless my freind can find me a machine in hong kong i will not bother to buy
anything !

budugu
Nov 20, 2005, 06:48 PM
I completely agree! I joined this forum a few months back having bought a 2nd hand ibook that turned out to be a duffer- so many things went wrong with it I ended up selling it on ebay for spares.

When I posted questions here about it, for example when the combo drive gave up, I was told by some 'not to blame apple' because they don't manufacture their own drives!! To my mind this is an unbelievable mentality and it helps to protect apple from quality lapses because they know they have these die-hard users who will defend them simply because they love the brand.

Apple has always sold units in part because they are seen as the 'cool' or 'trendy' option, and now they are playing on this more than ever, but without the attention to the high quality and detail that always backed them up.

that is true and most of them it seems (from another board) are high school kids who get hazed at school for using a mac. That is the reason why you cannot explain any thing to them. I joined this forum couple of years ago and it is full of them esp buying/harware advice etc. My suggestion ignore them. And move to more matured (even slightly) forms like arstechnica etc.

Morn
Nov 27, 2005, 08:06 PM
Interesting theory, but it ignores the economics of quality. In the long run, its almost always much much cheaper to build a product right initially than to go back and fix it later.

Yeah, but that's not realistic, products aren't ever really perfect, there are always minor things to fix. Apple should put more effort into fixing problems.

tristan
Nov 27, 2005, 11:17 PM
Of course they should fix any problems, that's not the issue. The issue is whether its more profitable to ship a bad laptop and then fix the problems or to ship a good one in the first place. Anyone who knows manufacturing knows that the earlier you can find the defect, the less expensive it is.

The moment a laptop with a bad screen rolled off the assembly line, somebody should have pulled the cord and thrown out the entire batch of screens. Yes, that's expensive, but its much cheaper than shipping a hundred thousand bad laptops to customers and then having to recall them all.

Morn
Nov 27, 2005, 11:20 PM
Right, but they'll always been some problems that show up later evne if you do a good job of searching for them, before release.

thegreathobo
Nov 27, 2005, 11:36 PM
Powerbook...er...power!!! RAA RA RA

Jschultz
Nov 27, 2005, 11:54 PM
Unfortunately, what needs to happen is bad.

People will get fed up with subpar quality and either turn to earlier rev. machines or leave the apple brand altogether. Apple loses money and marketshare, and back to square 1 it goes.

Though,hopefully losing money doesn't mean dissipation of the company.

ybakos
Nov 28, 2005, 01:47 PM
I think that the line problem is important for us to complain about because

1) No other computer manufacturer sells bad screens like this. By returning your defective product, you are sending your message in dollars that this Apple product is not worth the money.

2) The lines really do distort what you're seeing and isn't good for you. Look everyone, every third row of pixels has a noticeably lighter tint to the rest of the screen. It distorts the way we see smooth curves (look at the curved lines of the default blue desktop background image -- they're jagged) and some folks even complain of a headache. And for professionals who use the screen for as many as 12 hours a day... it's a bit much to put up with.

By looking around at the entire laptop market, AT MINIMUM the product should have a proper quality screen.

I just wish Apple would fix this. Don't ya'll?

Gokhan
Nov 28, 2005, 05:51 PM
yip i agree return ur powerbooks amd tell them WHY hit them where it will eventually will hurt the pockets $$$$$

but i am getting sick of the epople claiming they can live with it and thr problem aint so bad thats the sorts of people apple like SUCKERS !!!

Gokhan
Nov 28, 2005, 05:53 PM
also i did order a refurb now for 1364 superdrive 100gb 128 graphics 1228 with egg card discount very good i think i would suggest to uk buyers to pick that deal up while u can !!