Apple to Charge Upgrade Fees?

[MacRumors]

News.com reports (http://news.com.com/2100-1040-979129.html?tag=fd_top) that Apple may start chargning for upgrades to some of its iApps:

According to sources familiar with the plans, Apple is expected to announce at the Macworld Expo in San Francisco on Tuesday that consumers will have to pay for new versions of iDVD, iPhoto and iMovie, which will be sold together as a bundle. Previously, Apple had offered upgrades to its digital media, or "i" applications, for free.

Historically, Apple has charged for the last iMovie upgrade (2.0), as well as a $19.95 shipping/handling fee for iDVD 2.

First hints of this particular rumor can be found in this Appleinsider thread (http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=13&t=000013).

[iShater]

so why can't Apple do it? :rolleyes:


Edit : First post! :D

[insidedanshead]

I expected this to happen sooner than later... they need to make money to continue development of these incredible apps.. so either charge for these or raise the price of the OS.. and we all know how well that would go over.

[chewbaccapits]

I can MAYBE see imovie as an app to pay, but something like iCal?...Whatever.....Don't know about this.....


And how come no one ever gets happy at the 3rd post?



3 post!!

[Mudbug]

Here we go again with the $$ whiners.

Sounds like bad juju to me, but since noone seems to be buying new machines these days, you have to make a few dollars somewhere just to keep the lights on.

I'm in favor of this, by the way...

[texas2001]

I don't see how Apple can continue to give away superior products. I don't mind paying the fee for those apps.

[alset]

While I would say Apple deserves a return on their investments in iApps, I still wonder if this will kill or slow their development as fewer users have access to them. The iApps have done a tremendous job of growing Apple's software line, but once users lose the ability to try them just for fun will we still see them reflect such popularity?

Dan

edit: btw - I for one will purchase iApps - I only question the masses.

[medea]

Umm, I belive arn already has a thread on this rolling in the software rumors section......
are arn and the macrumors admin two separate people? I always thought they were the same.

[Nebrie]

There shouldnt be any $$ whiners here, they'll just grab it off of carracho anyways. They whined because they couldnt do that with .mac

[achmafooma]

Seems a smarter way to do this would be to roll it all into .Mac. I like the stuff in .Mac, but I can't justify the expense (since I get most of what it has for free).

Now if .Mac came with what it has now, plus iApps, plus Mac OS and AppleWorks updates for free as long as you're a member - HEY, count me in :-)

I don't particularly mind them charging for some of the iApps - particularly iMovie and iDVD, but iPhoto?! Man, I actually use that one! lol.

That said, since I use Final Cut for my DV work and don't have a DVD burner, I'm not sure I'd pay $50 for what is - effectively - iPhoto alone.

[bretm]

Originally posted by texas2001
I don't see how Apple can continue to give away superior products. I don't mind paying the fee for those apps.

I thought we were already paying for these apps. Isn't that supposed to be a good portion of the added value in paying an extra grand or two for a slower machine?

But the quote is wrong anyway. Apple has charged in the past as noted by others.

Bottom line, I love apple and think their products, hardware and integration is flat out light years beyond anything based on windows. I would not operate in the computer field any longer if I had to work on windows day in and day out. Seeing something done the right way, for the right convictions and reasons and then succeeding at it gives me some hope. I have absolutely no problem paying a premium for it. If apple wanted to make something for the masses they would. I for one don't really think they do. They want to make the best. The best is not the cheapest. Sure they want as big a market share as they can get, but not if they have to lower their standards.

But it's not going to help them win over more switchers!

[MacKid]

I think this is O.K. because it's traditional for Apple to charge full price for ground-breaking new versions to old software. Also, as Apple said Jaguar was a totally new OS, not just an upgrade, I think that since almost nobody actually paid for these iApps, I think it is normal. If it was something like iMovie 2.3 or something, that would be another matter, but these will probably be very different applications so I think it is a logical move for Apple. :p

[adamcoop]

If they worked bug free, I'd have no problems paying for them.

I thought we were already paying for these apps. Isn't that supposed to be a good portion of the added value in paying an extra grand or two for a slower machine?

That is a main selling point, yes. But if you buy a new machine, you'd expect that this software would still ship with it.

[IJ Reilly]

Originally posted by achmafooma
Seems a smarter way to do this would be to roll it all into .Mac.

I agree, this makes sense. If only 180,000 Mac owners are currently subscribing to .Mac at the $50 introductory rate, then Apple obviously needs to add more value to .Mac, even if that value is subtracted from somewhere else -- or they're going to lose most of the current subscribers when they have to renew at $99.

Give me the current .Mac services plus "free" updates of the iApps, and I might accept that. Make me pay for both, and one of them will have to go.

[Hmm]

I think historically the problem has never been Apple charging money, but how much they actually charge. If they had offered .Mac at $50 a year, every year, or Jaguar at $60 for upgraders from 10.1, then there probably would have been a lot less whining. You don't hear nearly as much about the $29.99 upgrade for QuickTime Pro, for example.

If they offer iApp upgrades for $20-$30, then I think there won't be much complaint. I just hope they don't think they can start charging $99 and expect people to swallow it like some did with .Mac.

[steve53e]

I've spent 50 bucks on far worthless stuff.

[snahabed]

I posted support in the "no eMacs at MWSF" thread about tying some premium iApp services into .mac ... I predict a huge .mac exodus in September if the price remains $99 without new stuff being added.

Anyway, I have mixed feelings about charging for the iApps. I can see it with .mac more, in that there are server costs. But the cost of iApps is all R&D, and the bulk of that has already been done in the iApps' creation.

Moreover, iApps such as iTunes, iCal, and iPhoto, while I like them a lot and use them, are not really good enough to cost money. If iTunes and Audion cost tons of money, and one can do Ogg Vorbis, skins, etc., and one cannot, a lot would go for the latter. Than again, any sales of iTunes would increase the profits that they are making now (none)..I definitely would not pay for iCal and iPhoto though.

iMovie and iDVD maybe I can see minimal fees for. They are used by less people (and people, of course, that have enough $ to have nice DV cams).

God I can foresee my beloved iTunes 4 with AAC and Rendezvous being for-pay. Ugh.

I tend to agree that the iApps are part of the "value" we get as part of the more expensive Apple hardware and OS X lifestyle. But that argument was raised re: iTools as well and was blown off. Apple can do what they want; I guess no one is forcing anyone to upgrade to "Pro" versions of each iApp. Frankly iMovie, iDVD and iTunes work perfectly fine in current free versions.

[kingslod]

If you want a program that does what iPhoto does, and that also catalogs all of your CDs and drives for graphics, video and other media, check out iView Media Pro.

I've been using it for almost a year and I can't imagine life without it. I'm an Art Director who has to manage an insane amount of image files (logos, photos, charts, etc.) and the program works great. It creates a thumbnail and location for any disc you point at it.

I also use it at home to manage all of my digital photographs. It prints proof sheets, rotates, enlarges and can even take a selected range of photos and copy them to a new folder. OK this doesn't sound that cool, but it works flawlessly and never crashes.

http://www.iview-multimedia.com/ (http://)

[Ocelot]

I would like to say first off, I am not a whiner. I am happy to pay for the software I use, and proud of that fact. My major problem is I thought I paid for these Apps when I purchased Jaguar... and usually when you pay for apps you are typically entitled to upgrades usually within in the first year, or first couple of years. The reason I assume I've paid for these Apps already is because of that wonderful MacWorld keynote that convinced me on all the good reasons to upgrade, and the idea that I am getting 100s of features, upgrades, apps, so that I'm really paying $1 per new feature.

I really do like Apple, and it would be a shame for them to charge to upgrade these apps... I find it hard to believe they would first charge for their OS, then upgrade a couple Apps a few months later and charge more for them. It seems to be getting way too expensive to own and maintain a Macintosh... Plus I'm sure they will release OS X 10.3 sometime this year with more promises and more charges... How much more gouging is going to take place? only to subsidize crappy sales because Apple can't stick a decently fast processor in a computer to warrant a purchase or upgrade...

My Software costs since I got my mac roughly one year ago (this does not include the initial cost of my Mac, or the cost to upgrade to mac 10.1):

Quicktime 5: 29.99
Quicktime 6: 29.99
Mac OS X-Jaguar: 129.99
.Mac: 49.99
------------------------------
= 239.96

next years projected costs:
iApps $50-$100 depending on how many upgrades we see
mac os x 10.3 = 129.99 (theoretically)
.mac = 99.99
----------------------------
279.98 - 329.98

so within 2 years I will pay out about 569.94 to simply upgrade software....
this is kind-of grotesque

Of course this is still just a rumor, but coming from Cnet its pretty credible. I do plan to upgrade my computer in the next year it may be an Apple, but if this trend of gouging customers for upgrades continues...I will be using Windows XP next year.

..I recently made the switch to macs and have been pretty happy about the whole experience, but this continuing trend may force me to be a bit more sane with my money

[bluecell]

You'd think that Apple would fix their hardware problems before making this kind of a dramatic change. For some, the iApps are what caused them to move to Mac in the first place. I'm plugging my ears when he makes the announcement so I'm not deafened by all of the whining that will follow. I hope they know what they're doing.

[slaboda]

Two brief points:

1. It's not as if iApps don't come free with new Macs, you just pay for the upgrades. A contract for lifetime free software updates was never part of the whole OS X lifestyle sell. The stuff works fine when you buy it. Want newer features, pay for their development.

2. That being said, I would be pissed if these iApps are not included in .Mac, since the service is grossly overpriced for what you get. Adding iApps would be a good way to prevent most people form dropping the service once the fee goes up in September, and .Mac's subscription model could easily include iApp upgrades.

[scorpion]

The real question -- what do we all pay a year for software? I bought my iBook in May and have paid (software alone):

$129 for Jaguar (actually more like $109 w/rebate and all)

$50 for .mac, which as of today allows me to do something I can't easily
do any other way, which is sync my contacts and give me some decent
webspace and a really easy homepage

$360 for M$ Office (partially because of work, even though I dislike Bill
as much as all of you, it's still the best product out there that does what
it does and plays well with others)

Could I have done what I did another way more cheaply? Absolutely. More cheaply and with user friendliness that might be considered in the same universe? Probably not. More cheaply, as user friendly, with as many features, an elegant interface, and a lower TCO long-term (remember that concept)? No way in a million years.

My car's a piece of junk. It's not pretty but it gets me to work. It's a responsibility. I spend less than a half hour a day in it. It doesn't matter.

My computer is my work and a hobby. I spend 8-10 hours on them a day. They make me money whether I'm doing work for clients or auctioning stuff on eBay. I need one that's a pleasure to use -- not a pain. That's why I pay more for it, and don't feel too bad about it in the grand scheme.

Apple has spoiled us with applications and technologies which just get better and better. And while I think they should include the iApps for free as an integral part of the hardware 9that is what they're pitching), I'm willing to pay for them. The upgrades will still be far less than you would pay for an inferior product.

Sorry took so long.

[OutThere]

hmmm...a question...will apple release uprgrades for bug fixes for download? I think that it would be silly if they didn't offer for free a new version that stopped iPhoto from corrupting all pics that you opened with it, or a bug that made iTunes quit after finishing aac song. I hope that they will offer important updates through the internet, and leave the costs at buying iMovie 3 or iTunes 4.

Edit: Thinking about it, I was kinda worrying about something that Apple would have to be total idiots to do.

[scorpion]

Originally posted by slaboda
Two brief points:

1. It's not as if iApps don't come free with new Macs, you just pay for the upgrades. A contract for lifetime free software updates was never part of the whole OS X lifestyle sell. The stuff works fine when you buy it. Want newer features, pay for their development.

2. That being said, I would be pissed if these iApps are not included in .Mac, since the service is grossly overpriced for what you get. Adding iApps would be a good way to prevent most people form dropping the service once the fee goes up in September, and .Mac's subscription model could easily include iApp upgrades.

right on both points -- especially point two -- maybe an even better idea would be to pitch .mac memebrship as an alternative to the iApp -- i.e. when you upgrade if you're not a .mac member you get the option to become one and do the upgrade online for some small amount (just to get more .mac people!)

[chubakka]

I could see them charging for iDVD then people who
get external DVD drives or add them later to their towers can buy it...

You get iTunes free when you buy an iPod... or a Mac in general.

I don't see what the big deal is...all the iApps do a good job... don't want the new features? Don't buy the upgrade.

I think many of the iApps will stay free...iChat, iCal, iSync.

iPhoto is a toss up...

if you want free apps all the time... use linux... gag ... and goodluck!

[jholzner]

Apple positions the OS itself as the digital hub and uses the iApps to show examples. If I have to purchase these Apps seperatly (meaning the updates aren't included with an OS upgrade) then the OS is not a digital hub...you have to upgrade to these apps seperatly. I'm not complaining about them charging for them but it kinda messes up their strategy. Then again...all new macs will still ship with them...but when an os upgrade comes out and new iapps as well to take advatage of the technology in the new os...I'll have to shell out money for the OS upgreade ($129.00) plus extra money to update all the iApps to take advatage of it (another $50.00 or more). That's nearly $180.00 just to realize Apples vision of the digital hub which used to realize itself.

[cubist]

(1) I don't think you'll be able to buy iDVD, only upgrade it as part of an upgrade pack. External firewire DVD burners will still not burn DVDs.

(2) When the 10.2.4 or 10.3 update comes out, the old versions of the iApps will likely stop working. It won't be deliberate, but the APIs of Aqua keep changing, and programs get broken on each revision.

(3) iTunes is a pretty nice program; iPhoto is too limited to be of much use; iMovie is only useful if you have a firewire camcorder, I've never used it; iCal is a toy in need of much work; iSync I haven't tried and probably never will, now. It seems to me that these programs were not designed to compete with full-blown commercial apps.

(4) Medea, I love your new avatar!

[daveg5]

Here we go again, $100 plus OS upgrade a year, free to $100 .mac a year, and now iapp upgrade charges probably $19 a year. to be fair Apple has lowered some Hardware prices and maybe this is how they plan to recoup sompe of that lost profit. imovie and maybe idvd probably isnt too bad but apple is getting close to out fleecing Microsoft.
Apple's software is expensive to make and worth it and always has been but that does not mean we should have to pay for it every time its updated in addition to the first 2 items mention.
" And please people let's not encourage them to do so."!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I can't believe the replies that actually do this, it is like buying a new car and telling the salesman Gee I like all of those "standard features" and you really ought to charge me more for those seperately. I am sure the research and devlopement was huge so here is some extra money. Please!!!

It is precisely those "standard features why I am buying the car. OS or whatever.
Peace Out[B]

[Brandon Sharitt]

As long as the iApps still come with new Macs I'll be happy. I think it's fairto charge for upgrades, but if they start to do more like Microsoft and ship a bare OS and charge for the middleware(or at least noncrippled versions) , then my nex computer purchase would likely be a cheap x86 box to install Linux.

[IJ Reilly]

Come on, why gripe about something that hasn't even happened yet? We'll have plenty of time to complain after it does!

[MacSlut]

Originally posted by achmafooma
Seems a smarter way to do this would be to roll it all into .Mac. I like the stuff in .Mac, but I can't justify the expense (since I get most of what it has for free).

Now if .Mac came with what it has now, plus iApps, plus Mac OS and AppleWorks updates for free as long as you're a member - HEY, count me in :-)

I don't particularly mind them charging for some of the iApps - particularly iMovie and iDVD, but iPhoto?! Man, I actually use that one! lol.

That said, since I use Final Cut for my DV work and don't have a DVD burner, I'm not sure I'd pay $50 for what is - effectively - iPhoto alone.

Essentially what you're advocating is one LARGE fee for the whole enchilada. For those of us who don't want .Mac, AppleWorks and most of the iApps, this would kinda suck. It would be something north of about $300 for all of this, and for me, it would only mean getting the value of iTunes and the new Mac OS, since I don't have a use for anything else (AppleWorks -> Office, iPhoto->iView Media Pro, iMovie->FinalCut/Premiere, .Mac->my own servers, iChat->Proteus, Mail/iCal -> Entourage).

It would be one thing if Apple offered a "Gold Pass" or something as an option, but I hope they also offer everything ala cart.

More importantly, I hope they include all updated apps with new Macs as well as with each new major (full priced) OS upgrade.

[bousozoku]

I'm just getting interested in making my own DVDs so I'm willing to pay for iMovie and iDVD, but iPhoto crashes every time I try to import my digital photos so I hope they make it work for me, if I'm going to pay for it.

[wdlove]

I willing to wait and see what Steve Jobs actually says on Tuesday, can't really complain till we know the facts. We might be pleasantly suprised!

[Fukui]

Here is my feeling:

Apple will charge $49 for iDVD (Pro?) iPhoto (2?) and iMovie 3, they will contain many new features and be really cool.

These apps will be included for free in new macs, but if you wanted to upgrade to the next version like for example in the future, to iMovie 4, iDVD3 iPhoto3, then you would probably need to pay 49 dollars. Or if you upgraded to the next OS like 10.3/10.4 you also get these for free.

I think if apple stopped giving them for free with new computers, then it is a little pointless to buy a mac, and I beleive they understand this...I mean if you bought a mac with superdrive, would they be that stupid to make you pay another 49 dollars just so you can use it???

Has anyone ever thought that if they charged more for iDVD, they might let it work with external DVD burners?? Just a thought.

[MDiddy]

No godamn way will I pay for an iApp update. The Mac advantages are dwindling by the second. If I have to buy a damn update to iMovie 3.0 after its languished for well almost 2 years (maybe more). Fix the bugs in the current software before trying to scrape me for more money.

If this is the petty nickel & diming from Apple , then I'm gonna start breaking stuff.

This is a losing idea-No good will come of it.

[robguz]

We pay and pay and pay some more. First we get charged for .mac after buying iTools with OS 9 and OSX. The one advantage the mac platform has is these iApps and that they are free. iTools used to be a nice advantage, but now it's gone. Looks like it's Carracho for me. I can't imagine paying for a version of iPhoto after dealing with it's glacial interface for the past year. Apple ought to be paying me!

[ecino1]

Well, no need to get really into discussion about it since it is just a rumor as of now. But if we do see charges put on iApp's it is fine with me, as long as they can make the older versions work with new updates to the OS for those that do not choose to purchase the update. For some reason...i doubt they will be able to make that happen.

[ecino1]

Well, no need to get really into discussion about it since it is just a rumor as of now. But if we do see charges put on iApp's it is fine with me, as long as they can make the older versions work with new updates to the OS for those that do not choose to purchase the update. For some reason...i doubt they will be able to make that happen. I think the best bet for Apple is what many here have said .... integrate it somehow into .Mac, this way they get more .mac purchasers, while keeping people up to date with the latest iapp updates.

[thecure]

Have you ever thought about Apple one day not being there?? I know....it's scary.
I wouldn't mind paying the upgrade fee for iApps. Apple needs this money, I love my Mac and I'm willing to contribute within reasonable. Although I was against .mac, I think this time Apple is right, I need my iApps and I'm willing to pay for them.
I can think of any of us grabing Office X from Carracho or whatever, but Apple iApps???...

[NHMac]

I agree with all the folks that say its ok to charge for updates. Free when you by the machine, and a modest $50 charge for the integer updates.

These are great programs (iMovie, iTunes) that work well with our machines, much worse software can cost much more. All software is buggy/work-in-progress to complain that you have been an <insert iapp name here> beta tester is a non sequitur.

$50 for some great vid editing software that allows me to create powerfull videos of my family? Sign me up, I'll take two. Allow me to organize and rearrange my 5000 mp3? Sure I'd pay $50 for that as well.

Not sure I would put iCal into the same catagory just yet. It's publish and subscribe features are an interesting "webservices" twist to calendars... There are lots of even more interesting things that could be done with this model.

Free is not all ways a good thing, Look at Andy Ihnatko's Column in this months (Feb) MacWorld for the argument against free software.

[iJed]

What I'm thinking is how can something like a school possible justify buying a Mac anymore? They are just so much more expensive than a Windows system and you now have to pay more and more for any advantage they can have. Surely it would be better to have five $200 Lindows PCs than a single highly over-priced iMac?

[daveg5]

Originally posted by thecure
Have you ever thought about Apple one day not being there?? I know....it's scary.
I wouldn't mind paying the upgrade fee for iApps. Apple needs this money, I love my Mac and I'm willing to contribute within reasonable. Although I was against .mac, I think this time Apple is right, I need my iApps and I'm willing to pay for them.
I can think of any of us grabing Office X from Carracho or whatever, but Apple iApps???...
If they keep doing this junk then maybe we will be better off with out them. i will start a company called orange or banana and hire all of apples employees and with 2 billion in the bank I wont use the buy me or i am going out of business crap.

[LimeiBook86]

I have to pay for .Mac internet service and now this, well this is just great... :rolleyes:

[pyrotoaster]

That's all. I'll pay. I figure Apple needs the money. If they offer a pay-for upgrade I don't want, then I won't pay. Otherwise, I'll pay.
And for all of you who are up in arms about this, let me make a point: no amount of screaming will stop this, and it isn't fair to start screaming until you know the facts.
Shut up until the keynote. Maybe we'll find out there's a plesant catch. This isn't the first time Apple has charged for upgrades (iMovie 2 and iDVD both had price tags).
Even after the keynote, I say shut up. There are better things to do, and if .mac taught us anything, it taught us that if Steve Jobs wants us to fork over some cash, we either fork it over or we don't. All the complaining in the world didn't stop .mac. I think paying for decent big upgrades is worth it, especially if it keeps computer prices from going up (that's the last thing Apple needs).
Can I just make a note that people like NHMac have the right attitude here. People like MDiddy, on the other hand, should shut up. You don't want to pay, fine. Don't pay. I started using a Mac over ten years ago, I sure as hell wasn't in it for the free software then. You need perspective. Things are so much better for Apple now then they were before (even if they had a bigger market share ten years ago). I'll gladly pay to continue having this good Apple we have today (not that there's anything wrong with my Mac Classic II :) ).

[Codemonkey]

Originally posted by bretm


I thought we were already paying for these apps. Isn't that supposed to be a good portion of the added value in paying an extra grand or two for a slower machine?

[snip]

But it's not going to help them win over more switchers!

I tried explaining this on another thread... (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16656&perpage=25&pagenumber=1) , however I think you sum it up quite well.

And not only switchers, but families with budgets.

[pyrotoaster]

Maybe it was a mistake for Apple to ever offer these things for free...
We're spoiled. When asked to pay a reasonable sum for quality apps, we whine and cry.
Apple is better. We pay a premium sometimes, but Apple is better. That's why just about everybody bad-mouthing this will still watch the keynote intently and rave to their friends about how much they love using their Mac.
PCs are cheap. Apple is good.
PCs are copiers. Apple is an innovator.
See where I'm going?
If Apple had asked $20 for the original iTunes, we'd all be willing to pay $20 for iTunes 2, 3, and eventually 4. But it was free. It still is, let's not forget that.
I say good for you when you offer constructive feedback in a forum, good or bad. But when you whine, when you complain like a spoiled six year old, then I say shut up.

[LimeiBook86]

If this actualy happens and it is a low cost this liek $9.99 for a bundle or $9.99 for each pair of apps it would be good but I won't pay for a buddle that comes with apps I don't use... I think Apple isn't thinking straight lately.............:rolleyes:

[Codemonkey]

Originally posted by pyrotoaster
[snip
... offer constructive feedback in a forum...

LOL Why? Who are you offering criticism to?

Isn't this one big circle-jerk?

:eek:

[pyrotoaster]

Codemonkey:
I believe I said: " I say good for you when you offer constructive feedback in a forum, good or bad. But when you whine, when you complain like a spoiled six year old, then I say shut up."
Call me crazy, but weren't you whining?
I have no problem with you, you're probably a great person, but it isn't nice to mangle somebody else's words.
Am I offering constructive feedback now? No, not really. But at least I'm not whining, and I certainly wouldn't take a person's posts out of context for my own gain. That isn't nice.
But who am I offering criticism to? Right now, you.

[leghorn]

Umm. Try to sell me an OS w/o the iApps.

Pay-for-updates of OS features is gouging any way you want to slice it. Some don't seem to mind and that's fine, but imagine if the pay for update is successful.
We can only expect more of the same practices that didn't sell a cheaper OS upgrade version for Jag and then the whole .mac thing.

The cost is only part of the issue, it's the practice that's the problem. This paying for iApps actually isn't nearly as bad as the iTool/.mac (because you retain a working iApp version whereas iTools was completely stripped), but I doubt it will stop here.

We'll see.
Three more days.

[hesdeadjim]

Could it be possible that Apple will charge for "Pro" Versions of the iApps like Quicktime Pro. Like a person already mentioned that support for external DVD burners for iDVD or a higher number of transitions or effects for iMovie. I don't really see Apple charging for iTunes, iCal, iSync, and iPhoto only because they are highly used. Well, maybe iPhoto adding more features. Either way, they will have the free version with normal features and have the pro version with lots of added features. Maybe just an idea.

Plus I'm perfectly happy if they want money for updates for me to keep the current operating system that I own, but I think that the updates should come out with OS X 10.3 since Apple considers them part of the added features of OS X, just my two cents.

[daveg5]

Originally posted by pyrotoaster
Codemonkey:
I believe I said: " I say good for you when you offer constructive feedback in a forum, good or bad. But when you whine, when you complain like a spoiled six year old, then I say shut up."
Call me crazy, but weren't you whining?
I have no problem with you, you're probably a great person, but it isn't nice to mangle somebody else's words.
Am I offering constructive feedback now? No, not really. But at least I'm not whining, and I certainly wouldn't take a person's posts out of context for my own gain. That isn't nice.
But who am I offering criticism to? Right now, you.
I thought i was the #1 whiner until seeing your replies it now seems you are the number #1 whiner, what with telling people you disagree with, in a free forum to shutup, whats up with that.
Are will all to bow down and worship Apple and never complain. If that was the case .mac "$49 price and 90 day demo" would have never been extended and we would probably be paying for 10.3 upgrade and might still be with a 90 day warranty on ipod and have no recent hardware price reduction.
The best thing a prospective consumer can do is alert a company when the policies are becoming too farreaching and exspensive.
Anyway it might no be so bad if Apple decides on a 3 tier software approach entry i=free and limited u=upay more features and pro= professional version. But will should reserve the right to complain and whine before during and after as you too also seem to be doing.

[rjrufo]

I thought I'd add my $0.02, since we are on the subject of money...:)

I don't think anyone should be whining about being charged for great software. Apple produces some of the easiest to use, less buggy, and more usefull apps than a lot of other software companies. If Apple does charge for upgrades to the currently free software, suck it up and pay for it. If you don't use the software in the first place, then don't pay for it. It's that simple.

Try getting upgrades for Windows software upgrades, it isn't free either.

Besides, paying for the upgrades is just a rumor. We'll find out soon enough if the rumors are true.

[OutThere]

Two Faces of the Argument

a) Has anyone seen a bundled PC app as good as iTunes? iMovie? or iChat? They are way better than anything that I have seen that comes with a PC or that you can download for free for a PC. Most PC movie makers that you can get for the same price ~ as iMovie are worthless. The iApps are quality products that are worth the money.

b) Everybody doesn't have the money to buy the new versions, Macs are already cost way more than PCs, now apple charges for .mac, which used to be free, and might start charging for the iApp upgrades, if they do then they will lose even more populairty. Macs need more speed and lower costs, charging money for .mac and for iApp uprgrades limits the functioanlity that I have with my mac when I am on a tight budget. If the programs come with the computer that I shell out a ton of money for then I should be guaranteed at least 1 or 2 free upgrades. You would get the new versions for awhile and the free upgrades would help make up for the overpriced computer.

I can see how both sides of this argument can come about. I don't have unlimited funds to throw at apple, yet I really believe that they if they need the money then it is justified to charge money for such cool apps. I think that an excellent way to make it equal for all people would be to offer pro versions. iMovie with more transitions, features and possiblities could cost ~$30. The free version could be similar to what we have now. The really basic ones, iChat, iTunes, and iCal should be left free, I don't think I would really want to pay for new or pro versions of those, iChat Pro? that would suck. iTunes is the best iApp (in my opinion) and really needs to be free. iPhoto I don't use but have read the comments here saying that it has a beastly interface, and iCal is too easy to replace with some freeware calendar, sure it might not look pretty, but it gets the job done.

Thats my 20¢;)

[QuiteSure]

I like the idea of including the iapps as part of a .mac add in. Or adding "pro" features for the upgrade price. But if the upgrade to 10.2.4 or 10.3 will disable the prior free iapps, I think that creates a serious pr problem.

"OK, I can get the bug fixes included in 10.2.4, but if I fix those bugs then i can't use my apps?"

Those would be strange days indeed ...:confused:

[bousozoku]

Originally posted by pyrotoaster
Maybe it was a mistake for Apple to ever offer these things for free...
We're spoiled. When asked to pay a reasonable sum for quality apps, we whine and cry.
Apple is better. We pay a premium sometimes, but Apple is better. That's why just about everybody bad-mouthing this will still watch the keynote intently and rave to their friends about how much they love using their Mac.
PCs are cheap. Apple is good.
PCs are copiers. Apple is an innovator.
See where I'm going?
If Apple had asked $20 for the original iTunes, we'd all be willing to pay $20 for iTunes 2, 3, and eventually 4. But it was free. It still is, let's not forget that.
I say good for you when you offer constructive feedback in a forum, good or bad. But when you whine, when you complain like a spoiled six year old, then I say shut up.

Well said, but the whiners just won't get it.

[Q-bert]

After carefully reading all this, I'm not seeing how any of this qualifies as a story at all. Apple has ALWAYS charged for certain iApps, this CNet story is just spinning the facts a certain way to make it seem as though something major has changed, when in fact by their own story, nothing has changed at all. They're also flat-out wrong in stating that previous upgrades to ALL iApps were "free" - only some of them were. Don't believe me? Look at the history of the iApps:

- iMovie 1.0 to 2.0: $49 upgrade fee
- iDVD 1.0 to 2.0: $20 upgrade fee
- iPhoto: still at version 1.x, hasn't had a major upgrade yet.
- iTunes: free upgrades to all versions
- iCal: no major upgrades yet
- iSync: no major upgrades yet

Notice that both the CNet and ThinkSecret stories report that ONLY iMovie, iDVD, and iPhoto would be paid upgrades, neither says that ALL the iApps would have a cost associated with upgrades. So, what's different here? Seems to me that Apple is going to continue to:

1) Offer the iApps free with new hardware purchases (nothing changed there)
2) Offer upgrades to iMovie 3.0, iDVD 3.0, and iPhoto 2.0 for a fee (not much changed there, either, except that iPhoto has no history to draw from).

What's the big deal? I guess people tend to lump all the iApps in together and simplify the offerings as "everything's free, plus free upgrades for life", but the reality is that the ONLY iApp that has offered FREE major upgrades in the past is iTunes! So unless Apple is planning to charge for iTunes as well, which nobody is rumoring yet, it seems as though all of this is a non-story just looking for some spin.

[pyrotoaster]

Q-bert has a really good point. We have no idea what's actually going to happen, but iMovie and iDVD have had pay-for upgrades before, and iPhoto is still in its infancy.

[MacsRgr8]

They could have done it with the release of Jaguar. Pay $ 20 extra for CD #2 (or $ 20 less if you only bought CD #1)
But they didn't.
I would have paid for it, but many wouldn't have, and these people would have missed the prettiest part of OS X. I think if Apple would like to increase their market-share, it would be a good idea to keep the i-Apps free whenever you bought a new version of OS X.

[thecure]

Originally posted by daveg5

If they keep doing this junk then maybe we will be better off with out them. i will start a company called orange or banana and hire all of apples employees and with 2 billion in the bank I wont use the buy me or i am going out of business crap.

That's the spirit, we need more people like you in this country. Let me know when you start your company, I'm sure you'll do way better things than apple with that attitude.

[daveg5]

Originally posted by bousozoku


Well said, but the whiners just won't get it.

No one is arguing that Apple apps are some of the Best.

First off, lets get one thing straight. "Apple has never offered any of the iapps for free" or anything else for that matter!!!! It is paid for when they recieve the profits from your OS or computer purchase just like their advertisement. Much like cable companies who now charge for channels they did not before or cable boxes and remotes that were once part of the package.
Same for phone companies who did not charge for information (now a $1) and service(dont ask). And of course banks who did not charge for tyme machines transactions, checking or the privilege to let them keep ypur money. Now they charge you to keep your money there if you go under say $500-$1000 per month, and for checks you cash there if it comes from another bank.
Were any of these free before?
Of course not, its just the little trogen all in one, now seperate bait and switch. Apple is late in the game but "Geez they sure learn fast!!!"

Yearly(10,10.1,10.2) updates $100 or $19 -yearly.mac $100- updates to crucial apps $50-Quicktime pro $30- Quicktime pro mpeg plug $20. Let's see what else can we add a .10 charge for each update we install .10 for using apple support. a charge for using certain sherlock channels and itunes radio 90 day warranty on purchases under $1000, remember with 2,000,000,000.00 in the bank they might be out of buisness tomorrow, maybe Jerry can throw a telethon for them, oops I better not give them anymore ideas

[daveg5]

Originally posted by thecure


That's the spirit, we need more people like you in this country. Let me know when you start your company, I'm sure you'll do way better things than apple with that attitude.
You are hired. remember customer and honest fair profit first. now i just need some start up capital i think i will ask steve but then he cant even afford a suit.

[usersince86]

Originally posted by MDiddy
No godamn way will I pay for an iApp update. The Mac advantages are dwindling by the second. If I have to buy a damn update to iMovie 3.0 after its languished for well almost 2 years (maybe more). Fix the bugs in the current software before trying to scrape me for more money.

If this is the petty nickel & diming from Apple , then I'm gonna start breaking stuff.

This is a losing idea-No good will come of it.

One OK thing to come of it might be if you stopped using the Mac. Maybe you'd have a better attitude in the world of Windows.

Just a thought...

:D

(Nice command of the English language, by the way. Thanks!)

[Centris 650]

I've been thinking about this today...

1) I've read in other posts and on other websites that Apple might a "Lite" and "Pro" version of their iApps. The Lite version would be free to upgrade while the Pro version would cost. My question is would this be like Quicktime? Will the machines ship ONLY with the Lite versions? It will be interesting to see how this pans out.

2) Just what iApps will they charge for. As stated in so many other threads and sites some iApps can't merit an upgrade fee.

iChat, iTunes, iCal and iPhoto I see as TOYS. Theres not much there forprofessional productivity. (Except MAYBE iCal but that's really pushing it!) Plus many of these you can download for free in other forms. I think can't see many people really NEEDING to upgrade these.

Appleworks, iMovie and iDvd I can see as Apps that have some professional use and that people might really want to upgrade. Though how many people have camcorders with firewire or a superdrive?

Finally, I read on another site that the reason for charging for iApps was that many mac users are "sitting" on their computers and not upgrading enough to provide Apple with revenue. Hunh? Not everyone can upgrade their mac as often as Apple would like them to!

[daveg5]

Heres something else they could charge for. We can use Linux and Beos and windows with virtual pc on Mac. and since over 50% of Mac users still use OS9.
Why not charge all new Computer buyers $25 to boot in OS9 for a serial number and password.
Or better yet lock it out for all Macusers in 10.3 and charge for a key usbkey to unlock it. Apple needs the money to survive right.

[MacSlut]

Originally posted by pyrotoaster
Maybe it was a mistake for Apple to ever offer these things for free...

I agree with this, but not for the reasons you state. For example:

If Apple had asked $20 for the original iTunes, we'd all be willing to pay $20 for iTunes 2, 3, and eventually 4. But it was free. It still is, let's not forget that.

Uh nope. Some of us would be paying more/same/less for an alternative application to iTunes. It was free, so almost all development of competitive applications stopped.

I think it's seen as Microsoftian to launch something for free and then jack up the price once it's fully taken over the market.

iApps are great as free apps, but for almost every iApp, there's an alternative that I use instead. The biggest of which is iView Media Pro. It is vastly superior to iPhoto, but far fewer people have even tried it than "own" iPhoto. It won't be long before Apple can charge the same or more for iPhoto than what iView will sell for or go under. Inferior product + unfair advantage = market dominance is pretty much the motto for Microsoft.

The same could be said for other iApps like iChat versus Proteus.

When iPhoto first came out, I almost switched from iView. I figured iPhoto was free, iView may not have a future and even if it did I would be paying for it. Unfortunately, it was too hard to transfer all of my templates and scripts. There were numerous things iPhoto could not do, so I stuck with iView. I would be slightly upset if I had invested all the work into switching to iPhoto only to realize that it might be more expensive than iView. Probably as upset as all those people who signed up for a free mac.com account and published info/biz cards with that address who were then forced to choose between reprinting their contact info or pay Apple for a .mac account.

[daveg5]

Every iapp Apple has ever offered has been paid for in full by loyal Apple users. None of it is or was or will ever be free.
It developement, research and marketing is all paid for by us when we spend our money on apple products.
Apple just sees another way to make a profit in addition to .mac, OSX, service contracts, quicktime pro, hardware sales etc.
This is the same practice thats been used by banks, phone companies, cable companies etc. when revenues are low look at what your loyal customers pay for and recieve, and then make them pay for what was already paid for seperately. Start off with a few items and slowly add more.
Just make sure it starts off as included in the initial product or service purchase.
All in all it would'nt really be so bad if this was just the iapps but coming after yearly os purchases and . mac and quicktime its starting to look very bad. I can just see more schools and colleges switch to the other side with more of these little extra revenue enhancers.
Apple should just create a new mid u for upay line in addition to the included and paid for iapps and pro line. Charging for some iapps and not others just causes more confusion and thats the last thing Apple needs right now as OSX is about to take over the majority of macusers computers.
Apple missed a golden oppertunity with this iapp debaucle. They could have and should have and still can include these "upgrades" in with .mac contracts. that would have added a few million more .mac users and would be a way to say thanks for supporting our slow computers (i love them anyway) and letting us fleece you again and again.
Just my take
Peace out.

[redAPPLE]

Originally posted by kingslod
If you want a program that does what iPhoto does, and that also catalogs all of your CDs and drives for graphics, video and other media, check out iView Media Pro.

I've been using it for almost a year and I can't imagine life without it. I'm an Art Director who has to manage an insane amount of image files (logos, photos, charts, etc.) and the program works great. It creates a thumbnail and location for any disc you point at it.

I also use it at home to manage all of my digital photographs. It prints proof sheets, rotates, enlarges and can even take a selected range of photos and copy them to a new folder. OK this doesn't sound that cool, but it works flawlessly and never crashes.

http://www.iview-multimedia.com/ (http://)

sounds good, but i ain't free like iPhoto...

here is to hoping the iApps stay free.

[Inhale420]

lol, this is the funniest thing i've heard in a long time. all of you people who are 'not bothered' by this really need to step out of the reality distortion field.

[NHMac]

Perhaps those that feel a company/divison/biz unit can remain profitable while shipping free products are the ones that need to step outside of the reality distortion field! The ".com" days are over, save a few notable exceptions, folks did not do to well with making profit on "free."

I hate to say it but we were all paying "an extra grand or so" for our "slow" machines well before iMovie was a sparkle in Apple's eye. If anything the development of the "iApps" has likely cut profit margin per machine.

[daveg5]

Originally posted by NHMac
Perhaps those that feel a company/divison/biz unit can remain profitable while shipping free products are the ones that need to step outside of the reality distortion field! The ".com" days are over, save a few notable exceptions, folks did not do to well with making profit on "free."

I hate to say it but we were all paying "an extra grand or so" for our "slow" machines well before iMovie was a sparkle in Apple's eye. If anything the development of the "iApps" has likely cut profit margin per machine.

Apple does not ship free products the Iapps and Itools are/were standard feature packaged with the OS or machine purchase, or at least they were.
They were to noticable exceptions. idvd for superdrive equipped macs and 1 imovie upgrade to the best of my knowledge and soon thier will be moreYou got it all backwards, first off the iapps were never free you paid for them when you bought your OS/computer,
If anything the "Paid for Iapps and Itools" helped to sell those overpriced machines which paid for the Iapps and Itools.
You are correct, though in stateing that we were always paying a grand or so more for our "slow" machines except back then we were at least as fast as intel and sometimes faster with a single processor mind you clock speed and otherwise.
So let us whine and complain a little it is healthy, something that was standard is now pay per view and we need to release a little stress and let Apple no we dont all think it's a good idea whether or not it does any good is anybody's guess