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mike czech
Jan 7, 2003, 01:29 PM
Pros:

-fastest browser I have ever used
-good bookmark management
-built in Google
-great GUI
-syncs automatically with IE bookmarks
-not over-loaded with bells & whistles
-only a 3.5MB download and a 7MB app

Cons:
-no tabbed browsing
-re-sizing won't "fill screen"
-no free beer

post your thoughts!

mike czech
Jan 7, 2003, 01:32 PM
more Pros:
-most keyboard commands same as IE
-pop-up blocker
-website icons show up in URL bar & bookmark window
-that lil snapback arrow is NICE

damn, I must sound like S. Jobs, but after 15 minutes with this thang I REALLY like it.

TheT
Jan 7, 2003, 01:43 PM
Just switched from Chimera, and it's nice!
Only thing I miss is tabbed browsing and display of those lil icons in the bookmark bar.
This auto-delete downloaded .sit files and just keeping the originals doesn't work for me...

mnkeybsness
Jan 7, 2003, 01:43 PM
i submitted a bug already...

"I WANT TABS!"

i think safari is great...except for the above statement about TABS

TheT
Jan 7, 2003, 01:45 PM
...and one more thing: :D
Remember my damn passwords :D

TheT
Jan 7, 2003, 01:46 PM
Originally posted by TheT
This auto-delete downloaded .sit files and just keeping the originals doesn't work for me...
I have to correct myself: It's not supposed to work with .sit files... workes fine with .dmgs :)

mike czech
Jan 7, 2003, 02:02 PM
also:

combining the status bar with the URL bar is a real nice compacting feature.

the download manager is okay, but could be implemented into the GUI better, a lil bar in the tool bar to show downloads would be cool.

this free-floating window I get when I open Safari is REAL ANNOYING. Like the first version of iCal, it just opens at random places and sizes on my desktop.

OY YEAH... check THIS out:

http://internet-safari.com/

ANOTHER browser with the SAME NAME?!?!?!? VERY un-Apple like...

skunk
Jan 7, 2003, 02:13 PM
Bloody sweet!:)

TheT
Jan 7, 2003, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by mike czech
also:

combining the status bar with the URL bar is a real nice compacting feature.

Yeah, but it should be graphite when the OS is graphite... :D well, it's a beta.
Is there any way to send feedback besides the bug-report-feature?

ChicagoMac
Jan 7, 2003, 03:03 PM
Maybe it's just my DSL service, which has been known to act up, but Chimera seems faster than Safari on my 17"Imac. Safari seems to pause before fully loading a web site. Chimera doesn't do this.

BTW, how do I set one of these two browsers to be my default browser? I use MSN messenger and it always opens IE when I need to check email.

robbieduncan
Jan 7, 2003, 03:14 PM
Needs tabs (I too have submitted a bug request for this). I have also de-metalised it (2 nibs: browser.nib and downloads.nib if you want to do it). Other than that it seems to work fine for me.

mc68k
Jan 7, 2003, 03:53 PM
My only complaint is tabs. I have grown to use these all the time. My tentative opinion is that everything is as good or better than Chimera.

ChicagoMac
Jan 7, 2003, 03:55 PM
Cool! Safari sets itself up as the default browser automatically. Checking my mail from MSN messenger now opens up Safari instead if IE!

Juventuz
Jan 7, 2003, 04:17 PM
I think I'm just stupid, but for the life of me I can't import my bookmarks from Chimera into Safari.

Any know how to do this?

vniow
Jan 7, 2003, 04:25 PM
Well, everybody already mentioned my biggest complaint (no tabs) but I do like the bug submission button, the minimalistic interface, plus it's fast as hell, sometimes faster than Chimera, but tabs make more use of my bandwith so I'm keeping Safari on the side for now.

Juventuz
Jan 7, 2003, 04:38 PM
Well i just read the help for Safari and it specifically states that it will not import bookmarks from any other browser but IE.

Oh well.... chimera is staying as my primary browser for now.

We need TABS!

mac15
Jan 7, 2003, 05:04 PM
tabs and a proflie manger is what I want, or sync that with your address book

PabloEskimo
Jan 7, 2003, 05:06 PM
great browser! but I also want:

1. Tabs
2. Minimum/maximum font size
3. Remember passwords
4. Auto-fill
5. Graphite button mouse-clicks in address bar
6. Graphite status bar in address bar
7. History menu should be Go menu
8. Dock menu with bookmarks...
9. Remember window positions
10. Click & hold to show contextual menu
11. Drag & drop text
12. Better "view source"
13. "Send Link" menu item in File menu
14. Option to set a font that should be used instead of the fonts used by the website designer

that's all I can think of for now
:)

mnkeybsness
Jan 7, 2003, 05:09 PM
you can export your bookmarks from chimera into an html file and then open it with safari and click each link one at a time and bookmark it...kind of a pain...but it works...i ended up only using about a third of my original bookmarks...most were crap anyways

safari just crashed on me for the first time about 10 minutes ago while trying to download the newest version of acquisition

oh yah...and i don't like the separate downloads window...it should work more like the bookmarks

ryanweb
Jan 7, 2003, 05:38 PM
Create a new folder, click on Bookmarks bar and drag your folder into the window. Works exactly like in Chimera. Nice.

kwajo.com
Jan 7, 2003, 05:54 PM
in terms of loading speed, there are some sites faster, some slower (than Chimera), and I agree the tabs should be there- but other than that I like it alot. The scrolling difference is significant, it really is ALOT smoother, and i like the interface. anything about bookmarks doesn't matter to me, because I don't use them, same with remembering passwords (I am as paranoid as a snuffleupagus in a mouse factory). good app, cannot wait for the new ilife set. . .

Bradcoe
Jan 7, 2003, 05:59 PM
It's MUCH faster than chimera or IE on both Verizon DSL at school and Valstar DSL at home. I'm a little upset about one thing. Integration with the Keychain! Chimera does this wonderfully with storing login's and passwords. Hopefully in the next version. I like storing them in Keychain instead of having the browser store them on its own.

Other than that, it's the best browser I've used on a mac.

medea
Jan 7, 2003, 05:59 PM
I say, awesome. definitely not a disappointment.

engpjp
Jan 7, 2003, 06:18 PM
It's fast, but sometimes not quite as fast as Chimera. It's a MAJOR oversight that you cannot import bookmarks manually, and that only IE can be a donor. I have a number of browsers I use, and they are NOT synchronized (now there's a job for a future iSync!).

Tabbed browsing is a must by now; on the other hand I prefer the way Safari handles the bookmark list to the awful sheet-in-sheet-out routine in Chimera. All parts of an iApp should more or less be presentable in the area taken by the initial window; in that respect, IE5 DID innovate, and that way of doing it cannot be beaten, in my universe at least.

Like with the other iApps, too many things are automated or hidden away (just compare the preferences to those of IE, or iCab for that matter). Then again, it's a nice touch that you can set the default browser in Safari's prefs.

But what is it about that name? does Apple want us to use that browser to go looking for the Next Big Beast (TM) ???

engpjp

scem0
Jan 7, 2003, 06:20 PM
apple still has yet to release a browser that is
faster then PC browsers, but this is definitely
the best browser for a mac. This MW made me
want to go out and buy a mac really badly. Oh
well. I should just be happy that I spent next
to nothing on my PC. ;).

Macette
Jan 7, 2003, 06:20 PM
i find there's something slightly odd about text sizing... it was actually most noticeable when i went to the apple support site. when i did a search, all the available articles were listed in very small font, but when i went to articles themselves, the font was huge. so maybe something slightly odd/different about relative sizing? but other than that, all happy. i don't think i even know what tabs are... i don't use them.

Chaszmyr
Jan 7, 2003, 06:21 PM
Safari is better than I ever thought an OSX web browser would be... And i have used a LOT of web browsers!

It does still have flaws though. like ALL other mac web browsers (Including Netscape, IE, Mozilla, and Chimera) it still doesnt have full applet support. It doesnt seem to have any DHTML support. And it is recognized as a netscape browser by CGI scripts, which can be inconvenient in some auto-forwarding situations. WORST: Flash lags on it!

With those things out of the way let me reiterate that i LOVE it

ecino1
Jan 7, 2003, 06:43 PM
ok. I have heard people talking about it throughout this thread, saying they miss 'tabs'. Now, I cant figure out for the life of me what you are all talking about. I've heard of it before but kind of ignored it. So what is 'tabs' or 'tabbed browsing'? I have chimera, but don't know what/where tabs are or what to look for. Can someone please get me up to speed here? Thanks

vniow
Jan 7, 2003, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by ecino1
ok. I have heard people talking about it throughout this thread, saying they miss 'tabs'. Now, I cant figure out for the life of me what you are all talking about. I've heard of it before but kind of ignored it. So what is 'tabs' or 'tabbed browsing'? I have chimera, but don't know what/where tabs are or what to look for. Can someone please get me up to speed here? Thanks


You've been missing the simple greatest web browser innovation I've ever seen.

Either hit command-T to open a new one, or click on a link with the command button down to open it in a new tab.

There ya go.

atomwork
Jan 7, 2003, 07:02 PM
Well for me its not faster. Not at all. IE is the fastes and i run a new dual g4 on OSX. DSL also.

What bugs me is that heavy flash sites are slow. All the coding seems to slow this otherwise nice and superb browser down.

Centered Pop up windows open not in center (scripting problems)????


Hope the final version works better.

gralem
Jan 7, 2003, 07:34 PM
I have not seen any word on this in any forums, but I cannot log into hotmail with safari. First, it told me that my browser did not support javascript (it does). Now it just gives me a .net login error over and over.

Anyone else?

---gralem

ecino1
Jan 7, 2003, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by edvniow



You've been missing the simple greatest web browser innovation I've ever seen.

Either hit command-T to open a new one, or click on a link with the command button down to open it in a new tab.

There ya go.


Thanks a lot for filling me in on this feature. I feel kind of dumb asking such a question. But after trying out the tab feature I can't see how it is such a great feature. I mean all it did was open a link in a new window when i held down the cmd button. Unless I am still missing somthing, or they have a more practical application then I am still lost here.

Lz0
Jan 7, 2003, 07:50 PM
Want Want Want!

All I want is for the d/l to start.

Anybody else having trouble with the d/l???

goglamosh
Jan 7, 2003, 08:17 PM
I love the scrolling speed of this browser. Nothing beats it's speed.

whiskeybravo
Jan 7, 2003, 08:17 PM
I like it. Very fast and generally nice looking. I miss three things, the afformentioned tabs, keychain, and the ability to move the icons around on the tool bar. If they can be reorganized, I haven't found a way. I'll be keeping tabs on Chimera and this one. Chimera is ahead by a nose IMO.

scem0
Jan 7, 2003, 08:19 PM
i would guess no since everybody is talking about it ;). What
browser are you trying to d/l it from?

medea
Jan 7, 2003, 08:38 PM
Originally posted by gralem
I have not seen any word on this in any forums, but I cannot log into hotmail with safari. First, it told me that my browser did not support javascript (it does). Now it just gives me a .net login error over and over.

Anyone else?

---gralem
Indeed, I rarely use my msn mail so I wouldnt have checked it out right away, but since you said something I did and it does not work, I sent in a bug report though and I suggest you do the same.

Also not a single moonfruit site works with Safari, and oddly it doesnt just not show up, it shows up as if your site is not registered or not paid for anymore, very odd. check it out by going to www.medea.moonfruit.com in both Safari and Chimera, or IE.

GeeYouEye
Jan 7, 2003, 08:39 PM
It's certainly faster than any other browser I've used, but it's definitely buggy, and missing some featurres (spell checking for one). In fact, while I love the speed, it has tons of problems. First, I can login to maybe 2 of the sites that require a login (MacRumors and Yahoo! mail), and no others. Second, the toolbar needs to be rearrangeable, and more customizable; I want to have a Finder- or OmniWeb- or IE-like toolbar if I want... including a print button. SnapBack and the Google search are nice, as is the history caching, but to be honest, OmniWeb has buit-in google, with the ability to create other shortcuts, and IE has fairly quick page-back reloads, even if its caching sucks. Tabbed browsing... I don't need it or particularly want it. I've used it only on rare occasions in Chimera, and I've been less than impressed with it. So everything's in one browser window. Big deal. I like having different positions for different windows. And tabbed browsing gets really confusing when more than one tab is on the same site, but not the same page, since only the first few words get shown in the tab. And, like most other browsers, Safari really can't compete with OmniWeb's feature set and customizablity. Heck, Safari isn't even Cocoa! No Services, and crappy contextual menus. Now if only Apple could take the rendering engine and put that into Omniweb, while retaining the address book and Rondezvous integration (both good ideas), then that'd be something.

macmax
Jan 7, 2003, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by PabloEskimo
great browser! but I also want:

1. Tabs
2. Minimum/maximum font size
3. Remember passwords
4. Auto-fill
5. Graphite button mouse-clicks in address bar
6. Graphite status bar in address bar
7. History menu should be Go menu
8. Dock menu with bookmarks...
9. Remember window positions
10. Click & hold to show contextual menu
11. Drag & drop text
12. Better "view source"
13. "Send Link" menu item in File menu
14. Option to set a font that should be used instead of the fonts used by the website designer

that's all I can think of for now
:)

it has minimum/maximum font size

Goblin2099
Jan 7, 2003, 09:15 PM
Pros:
-Nice bookmark management
-Really fast start-up
-Apple-sponsored, so you know it's going to be well supported
-Nice download management
Cons:
-Doesn't recognize cookies from chimera. There may be a way to transfer them, but that's still a pain.
-Ditto for chimera bookmarks.
Browsing speed doesn't feel all that great to me.
-Yet another browser webmasters are going to have to test on, since it's a different renderer
- No Tabs

Looks like I'm going to stay with Chimera, but only for cookies, bookmarks, and tabs. The bookmarks and download manager are a big draw to safari though. I have a feeling that there will be applescripts soon to transfer bookmarks and cookies, and if Apple gets their head out of the sand and puts in some tabbed browsing, I'm there.
Unfortunately, I'm guessing Apple will never adopt tabs: it just feels like the kind of really useful feature that they'd write off as complicated. Plus, I don't think tabs work well in a brushed metal interface. Maybe they'll adopt a totally new way of browsing multiple pages: A sidebar, Preview and PDF style, with various pages that you can go back and forth in. That seems like something Apple would implement.

I read on macosrumors.com that Safari's speed is in the rendering, but it has problems with the actual downloading of content. Hence, anything in the cache is shown extremely fast, but something's stopping Safari from using your internet connection's full speed. It's fast, but for me Chimera is faster.

MrMacMan
Jan 7, 2003, 09:17 PM
No problems here.
Really blazin fast, I have had one crash but thats because I really pushed it. :D
A real nice browser indeed, tabs are nice, but I'm sure we will see in some
Safari 1.1 or something :D
One minor problem is aligment on some things text overlaps its borders making it look weird, doesn't happen offten but whatever.


Oh yeah, for unknown reasons all my internet speed test are bugging out. They are all sending back like 'Faster than T3 connection' results.
Is that a bug or a feature :D ?
It nees some polishing tho, but the pop-up blocker is real nice, and so far I haven't noticed any un-wanted pop ups.
Sorry ad people. ;)

voyagerd
Jan 7, 2003, 09:24 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

I'M NOW FREE FROM ALL MICROSOFT PRODUCTS!!!!

Traveler
Jan 7, 2003, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by gralem
I have not seen any word on this in any forums, but I cannot log into hotmail with safari. First, it told me that my browser did not support javascript (it does). Now it just gives me a .net login error over and over.

Anyone else?

---gralem

Yup,

Can't log in to hotmail... the same exact sequence of events for me. Same for AOL.com. I'm not sure if it's Safari that needs better proxy preferences or, since it simply uses the system proxies, maybe the OS in general needs a more thorough proxy manager. No place to type in my proxy username and PW... until a window randomly pops up telling me to do so.

This could be a great browser. but Autofill and tabs are sorely missed. Plus, what IS the deal with the upfront page loading delay. Apple definitely needs to fix the page download issue that somebody was talking about above.

Magicite
Jan 7, 2003, 09:52 PM
Safari seems to be using the HTTP v1.0 protocol instead of HTTP v1.1.

WHY?

This is the reason, I believe, for people like me, on dialup, image downloading takes quite a long time. That one site on slashdot [it escapes my memory] that talked about why IE was a faster browser [it cheated on the TCP/IP level] talked about the differences in HTTP v1.0 and 1.1 . . . perhaps someone could explain the major differences between the two . . .

macktheknife
Jan 7, 2003, 10:03 PM
Well color me surprised--I thought old Steve J was exaggerating when he sang praises about Safari. Well, after an hour and a half navigating through the web, I must say that Safari is as good as promised. It's fast, and many pages I once had trouble displaying properly now render correctly without problems. Several things I'd like to see:

Tabbed Browsing!!!
Auto-fill forms
Hotmail compatibility (couldn't log into Hotmail but logged onto my other webmail just fine)

scem0
Jan 7, 2003, 10:07 PM
I'm sure apple is getting a million requests for tab browsing, so
my guess is look for tabbed browsing in the next couple of updates.

Kid Red
Jan 7, 2003, 10:07 PM
Originally posted by GeeYouEye
It's certainly faster than any other browser I've used, but it's definitely buggy, and missing some featurres (spell checking for one). In fact, while I love the speed, it has tons of problems. First, I can login to maybe 2 of the sites that require a login (MacRumors and Yahoo! mail), and no others. Second, the toolbar needs to be rearrangeable, and more customizable; I want to have a Finder- or OmniWeb- or IE-like toolbar if I want... including a print button. SnapBack and the Google search are nice, as is the history caching, but to be honest, OmniWeb has buit-in google, with the ability to create other shortcuts, and IE has fairly quick page-back reloads, even if its caching sucks. Tabbed browsing... I don't need it or particularly want it. I've used it only on rare occasions in Chimera, and I've been less than impressed with it. So everything's in one browser window. Big deal. I like having different positions for different windows. And tabbed browsing gets really confusing when more than one tab is on the same site, but not the same page, since only the first few words get shown in the tab. And, like most other browsers, Safari really can't compete with OmniWeb's feature set and customizablity. Heck, Safari isn't even Cocoa! No Services, and crappy contextual menus. Now if only Apple could take the rendering engine and put that into Omniweb, while retaining the address book and Rondezvous integration (both good ideas), then that'd be something.

It has spell check, either thru right click or edit menu :cool:

MacKenzie999
Jan 7, 2003, 10:13 PM
I Love Safari...

My only complaint is the cookie pref; I'd like the option of being asked for each.

FattyMembrane
Jan 7, 2003, 10:22 PM
everyone needs to keep in mind that safari is still beta and if you really really really want it to do something in particular, the dev tools are free and the source is free. as for flash being slow, it's slow in any osx browser because the problem is with macromedia's plugin. whe macromedia makes a decent flash plug-in, we will get a speed increase.

AmbitiousLemon
Jan 7, 2003, 10:41 PM
it doesnt seem to do anything right. i can not think of a single redeaming feature.

•the menus are cluttered and disorganized.
•the window interface seems very unpolished.
•it is the slowest browser i have used in years
•it has major rendering problems with most of the sites i have visited.
•no tabs


i find it hard to beleive a browser based on the mozilla code base could be this bad. this browser is terrible, i hope it dies quietly.

demonx
Jan 7, 2003, 10:59 PM
I'm enjoying it.

Chimera has hit the trash bin, not that it was a bad app but I like Safari better. As others have mentioned I missed Tab Browsing, and would like to see autofill.

All in all a sweet browser, especially for a beta.

Eckslusive
Jan 7, 2003, 11:05 PM
Safari is GREAT! But...why the name "Safari"?? Its so werid...Even though iWeb or iBrowse isn't that creative..but has that Apple *SNAP* to it

vniow
Jan 7, 2003, 11:06 PM
Originally posted by AmbitiousLemon
i find it hard to beleive a browser based on the mozilla code base could be this bad.


That's because it's not.

It's based off of the same code as Konquerer, the default browser and file manager in Linux.

And it's still a beta, I mean look what they did with a UNIX core, sh|tty at first, but after a couple more revisions it's absoltuely wonderful.

Give it time.

alset
Jan 7, 2003, 11:17 PM
There was a question above about tabs in Chimera. Command-Clicking brings up a new window because you haven't set it to open a new tab in the Preferences.

Complaints:

No Tabs

Slower than Chimera on a new dually and a new iBook

Has nobody noticed in all these posts that Safari doesn't scroll the window to keep up with text in a form? Or am I only catching this because I am trying it on my iBook? Try making your window small and see if this happens to you.

I want to be able to resize the Add Bookmark window.

Hasn't anyone else noticed that the cursor doesn't become invisible when scrolling a web page? This is standard stuff in nearly every Mac app! Come on!

Finally, when I hit the back button I should be returned to the section of the page I was viewing. I don't want to scroll through it all over again.

You know this will improve, but my browsing for now will remain with Chimera.

Dan

Switcher2001
Jan 7, 2003, 11:45 PM
I'm surprised no one mentioned they wished that links were not underlined by default, or that there were some way underlining could be turned off. I tried turning off underlining in the preferences and I couldn't fine a way. Does anyone know of a preference file I can hack or something?

Doctor Q
Jan 8, 2003, 12:41 AM
Originally posted by ChicagoMac
BTW, how do I set one of these two browsers to be my default browser?
Safari -> Preferences -> General -> Default Web Browser

You can use this to make Safari the default browser or to set the default back to some other browser.

Originally posted by Eckslusive
Safari is GREAT! But...why the name "Safari"?? Its so werid...Even though iWeb or iBrowse isn't that creative..but has that Apple *SNAP* to it
When you web surf, you are typically hunting for something or visiting sites. Hence safari, defined as an overland expedition, especially one for hunting or exploring, or, more generally, a journey or trip.

Eckslusive
Jan 8, 2003, 12:42 AM
oh wow..never thought of it that way.
I want keynote now...

Frobozz
Jan 8, 2003, 12:46 AM
Some of the other cons can include it mangling some of my (standard HTML 4.1) code. I'll be submitting my bug reports, as I am very hestitant this browser will be a success without web professionals input. In particular, I want to make sure plugins are handled correctly, DHTML, CSS, and HTML are rendered correctly. I also MUST HAVE tabbed browsing. Without it, I swear I can't use this daily. It's an awesome product, but needs code fixes and tabs.

Kudos on the speed, however. I am finally limited to my DSL connection's speed... as if that can really be considered a wait.

Gus
Jan 8, 2003, 01:05 AM
You guys have made some very lucid and valid points, but before dumping it or writing it off, let's just remember 2 words: PUBLIC BETA.

Personally I am in love with it. I hope that when tabbed browsing is included it can be turned off. I am very fluent with it, but I just don't like it.

All of this being said, I can't wait until they get the AutoFill put into it. That is my complaint. :)

Regards,
Gus

AndrewMT
Jan 8, 2003, 01:27 AM
Safari is the fastest browser on my Ti 550. However, I agree with the people here that Safari needs improvement. Luckily it's still in beta.

Here's what I think Safari needs:

- Tabs, of course.
- Storable passwords.
- Autofill and form complete like all the other major broswers.
- A button to see your current downloads.
- Auction Tracker (Why hasn't anyone mentioned this?)
- kb/s indicator.

I do not think safari is responsible for the slow flash speeds. Flash is terribly slow in osx compared to windows. Macromedia needs to get on that immediately.

That's all I can think of for right now. Does anyone know the e-mail to give apple feedback on beta products?

benixau
Jan 8, 2003, 01:29 AM
compare the quality of this public beta to Mac OS X puublic beta.

i know which product looks(ed) more promising.

PabloEskimo
Jan 8, 2003, 01:35 AM
Originally posted by macmax


it has minimum/maximum font size
no, it hasn't :)

you can set the font bigger or smaller, but you can't set the minimum font size, on some sites the size is just too small, I want to set the minimum size to 11 or something, this can be done in the Chimera preferences, but not in Safari.

MacBandit
Jan 8, 2003, 01:38 AM
I personally am having a very good experience with Safari. Yes it has it's quirks but it is a beta. Also if you have a problem click the bug in the upper right corner of the window and let them know.

Okay here are my impressions.

Speed: Seems to be on par with Chimera. Slightly faster in some areas a lot slower in others. But overal similar enough to be my everyday browser. All in all blows everything but chimera out of the water.

Accuracy: I've been having some serious type size issues with different pages. Seems when you enlarge very small type on one page and then go to a page with normal type the normal type gets enlarged to gigantic proportions. Other then that it seems to be on par with Chimera or IE.

Ergonomics: It could definitely use some customization. I would like to see auto fill text and some sort of implementation of Apple's own keychain.

Conclussion: I suspect that this was a rush release and the basic Apple standards haven't even been met yet. If this is the case Safari shows extreme potential. Mark up a big 3 out of 5 thumbs up on my part.

MacBandit
Jan 8, 2003, 01:43 AM
Originally posted by mnkeybsness
you can export your bookmarks from chimera into an html file and then open it with safari and click each link one at a time and bookmark it...kind of a pain...but it works...i ended up only using about a third of my original bookmarks...most were crap anyways

safari just crashed on me for the first time about 10 minutes ago while trying to download the newest version of acquisition

oh yah...and i don't like the separate downloads window...it should work more like the bookmarks

Come on everyone there is a work around. Now let me walk you through this.

mnkeybsness you got it half way there but didn't quiet solve the riddle. Here's what you do. Export the bookmarks from Chimera as an html file. Then open IE and open the bookmark organization window. Now drag and drop the new html file on this window. Voíla, now you have all your Chimera bookmarks in IE. The next step is to do a search for Safari and to delete the .plist preference file. Next time you open Chimera all your bookmarks that you just dropped into IE will be in Safari folders and all.

Heeheehee, I love it when I solve something that's stairing everyone right in the face.:D :p

sparkleytone
Jan 8, 2003, 01:48 AM
the apple dev team for safari has posted to the khtml mailing list.

apparently the infamous DAVE HYATT is a major member of the team. :D that makes me smile and expect a hell of a lot.

Telomar
Jan 8, 2003, 01:48 AM
Has anybody worked out a way to check security certificates? On Netscape and IE it's relatively easy but the traditional methods (clicking the lock) don't seem to work on Safari.

the menus are cluttered and disorganized.
I find them no worse than IE's or Netscape's.

the window interface seems very unpolished.
I don't mind the window interface but that's really a matter of preference. I would suspect in a later version it will be further refined and customizeable.

it is the slowest browser i have used in years Either you haven't used that many browsers or there is something to do with the computer you're using or your connection causing the problem.

Safari renders pages very quickly. From my tests I found it to roughly be the claimed 2x faster than Netscape on HTML content. In fact in virtually all my tests I found the ratios were pretty close to what Apple suggested.

Make sure you have the lastest version of OS X installed. They do note that will make a difference. Some people have also noticed download speed problems, although I'm yet to see it.

it has major rendering problems with most of the sites i have visited. I've had less problems with Safari than I ever did with Chimera. Perhaps a few examples though?

It does seem to have a serious problem with logging into some sites though and saving some of my more trivial passwords would be nice. I like Netscape's setup in that respect.

MacBandit
Jan 8, 2003, 02:12 AM
Quicktime plugin is not working with Safari. At least on my machine.

I take that back it works fine at Apple but doesn't work here (http://www.hiperhouse.com/Video4.html) .

mangis
Jan 8, 2003, 04:23 AM
Today was the day when I finally trashed the "e" icon from cxplorer out of my dock. Poof!!!
What a great feeling!

It made just enough room in the dock for Safari. It is a treat on the dual gig, running faster that anything I have used yet for surfing.

It did unexpectedly quit twice so far, though. And where is the "stop" button?

Back button is too plain as well. Too bare bones.

No more explorer. Hip, hip Hooray!

Telomar
Jan 8, 2003, 04:51 AM
Originally posted by MacBandit
Quicktime plugin is not working with Safari. At least on my machine.

I take that back it works fine at Apple but doesn't work here (http://www.hiperhouse.com/Video4.html) . It seems it has problems with plugins of all kinds on some sites. Some sites don't detect that flash is installed either.

artistry
Jan 8, 2003, 06:41 AM
It seems to be linked to me using Safari - my disk space is disappearing. Last night I had the 'Application memory' message and had to quit all my open apps. I restarted, claimed back all the disk space and am currently only runing Safari and Mail. My disk space has halfed in the past hour.
this happens with Limewire, but that ain't running.

Anyone else getting this?

logo1234
Jan 8, 2003, 06:56 AM
Had some major file corruption on Safari's downloads.

I'm not alone!!!

check this link at Apple's Discussion Site:

http://discussions.info.apple.com/webx?50@103.p2VUaXzZfJZ.565249@.3bbdb9d6

Please be careful, the problem caused some big pains!!!!

logo1234
Jan 8, 2003, 06:58 AM
As for diskspace disappearing. No that didn't happen to me, just the opposite.

The problem I mentioned just above doubled my free space: from 1.1G to 2.2G :o

Telomar
Jan 8, 2003, 07:23 AM
Originally posted by mangis
And where is the "stop" button?Beside the add a bookmark button. Right above the favourite for Amazon. It switches between reload and stop depending on if the page is still loading or not.

View > Stop/Reload if the button isn't activated.

Monomni
Jan 8, 2003, 08:10 AM
OK - I haven't had much time to really test and play with Safari yet, but so far, all is well on my G4.

I like the faster speed, but ironically, it loads Apple's site SLOWER than IE! What's up with THAT?!?

I've never really used tabbed browsing, so I don't miss it much - but I can see how a lot of people want it. And I bet Apple will add that feature, so don't worry too much about it.

For a public beta, this thing is SWEET. It's just gonna keep on getting better, people! Whee!

As soon as I get "Keynote," my G4 will be cleansed of all MSucks products!

Excellent!

:D

ibjoshua
Jan 8, 2003, 08:13 AM
Originally posted by artistry
It seems to be linked to me using Safari - my disk space is disappearing. Last night I had the 'Application memory' message and had to quit all my open apps. I restarted, claimed back all the disk space and am currently only runing Safari and Mail. My disk space has halfed in the past hour.
this happens with Limewire, but that ain't running.

Anyone else getting this?
Sounds like a virus to me...:rolleyes:

i_b_joshua

moosecat
Jan 8, 2003, 08:15 AM
So far, I've been able to get into Hotmail. Here is what I have done: In IE, my Hotmail bookmark went straight to my inbox. I imported it and dragged it to my bookmark bar in Safari. When I first clicked on it, Hotmail asked for my log in info. When I tried to log in, it said I couldn't log in because my browser doesn't support Javascript. I clicked on the Hotmail bookmark again, though, and went straight to my inbox.

None of this was by design; however, it has worked for me.

So far, I've had no problems clicking on the bookmark and going straight to my inbox... No Javascript error messages or anything.

KarenM
Jan 8, 2003, 08:30 AM
Dumb tho I feel for asking, I don't know what it is. Can someone explain it?

Also, I gather one can now download Safari--I assume from the Apple site? Will Safari work on my G3 too?

TIA

NicoMan
Jan 8, 2003, 08:32 AM
Originally posted by alset
Has nobody noticed in all these posts that Safari doesn't scroll the window to keep up with text in a form?
I had the same problem while typing a post in another tread. I guess you (and I) should submit a bug next time you encounter the problem.

NicoMan

jayscheuerle
Jan 8, 2003, 08:33 AM
Originally posted by Doctor Q

Safari -> Preferences -> General -> Default Web Browser

You can use this to make Safari the default browser or to set the default back to some other browser.


When you web surf, you are typically hunting for something or visiting sites. Hence safari, defined as an overland expedition, especially one for hunting or exploring, or, more generally, a journey or trip.

Steve's a baby-boomer. I'm guessing he's a Beach Boys fan as well.

"Surfing Safari"...

NicoMan
Jan 8, 2003, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by Telomar
I've had less problems with Safari than I ever did with Chimera. Perhaps a few examples though?
I would say it is the contrary for me: even though I really like Safari, I have experienced a few text/boxes alignment problems on some websites; for example on www.play.com (a UK dvd/cd/games retailer based in Jersey) it is quite obvious (it is usable though) or on bbc news, sports sections, the right hand side of the page is not aligned properly (OK I am a bit of a perfectionist...).

Apart from that, I find it quite good for a first beta. And I also like the fact that we are about to get 2 very good browsers on Mac platforms: Safari and Chimera. The future looks bright(er).

NicoMan

artistry
Jan 8, 2003, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by i_b_joshua

Sounds like a virus to me...:rolleyes:

i_b_joshua

Mmm didn't think of that...

But NAV scans every night and after restart and nothing came up. Checking again, though :rolleyes:

MacBandit
Jan 8, 2003, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by KarenM
Dumb tho I feel for asking, I don't know what it is. Can someone explain it?

Also, I gather one can now download Safari--I assume from the Apple site? Will Safari work on my G3 too?

TIA

Mac OSX 10.2.2 is minimum requirement.

MacBandit
Jan 8, 2003, 10:30 AM
Originally posted by artistry
It seems to be linked to me using Safari - my disk space is disappearing. Last night I had the 'Application memory' message and had to quit all my open apps. I restarted, claimed back all the disk space and am currently only runing Safari and Mail. My disk space has halfed in the past hour.
this happens with Limewire, but that ain't running.

Anyone else getting this?

Are you running 10.2? Apples website for Safari plainly says it's for 10.2.2 or higher.

cyks
Jan 8, 2003, 10:36 AM
When I first moved to Chimera, I found that some Java sites didn't work properly- and was forced to still use IE for them (www.pogo.com for example)... I was hoping that with the announcement of Safari that I'd have a new all in one browser that would solve all my problems- instead, it would only mean that I'd have to use 3 now.
Without full plug-in support- and that I can't even check my hotmail mail (without a workaround)... well, I can't believe Apple released this. Even if it is a beta- they should know that there are simple basic things that we do need. Oh well... maybe in a few revisions.
Until then, I'll be using Chimera for my surfing and IE for my games.

artistry
Jan 8, 2003, 10:46 AM
Originally posted by MacBandit


Are you running 10.2? Apples website for Safari plainly says it's for 10.2.2 or higher.

10.2.3 - would it even run in 10.1 and lower?
Don't see how OS version would account for disk space loss but as no one else here is experiencing the problem, perhaps it isn't Safari.

Nothing came up on the virus check either.
How curious.

I'll restart later and use IE5 to see if it happens again.

MacBandit
Jan 8, 2003, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by artistry


10.2.3 - would it even run in 10.1 and lower?
Don't see how OS version would account for disk space loss but as no one else here is experiencing the problem, perhaps it isn't Safari.

Nothing came up on the virus check either.
How curious.

I'll restart later and use IE5 to see if it happens again.

I wouldn't detect a space loss even if it did happen I have in excess of 40GB free on my drive. Have you tried repairing permissions and running the nightly tasks?

j763
Jan 8, 2003, 10:52 AM
The main feature I need in a browser that Safari doesn't provide is... yep... you guessed it -- tabs.

I'd encourage everyone to send Apple feedback re this by clicking the bug button in the top right hand corner (change page address to "Tabbed Browsing" or something similar). You can also use Apple's Mac OS X Feedback page (http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback) -- doing both is twice as good :). Please also take the time to sign the Safari Tabs Petition (http://www.petitiononline.com/safaritb/petition.html).

artistry
Jan 8, 2003, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by MacBandit


I wouldn't detect a space loss even if it did happen I have in excess of 40GB free on my drive. Have you tried repairing permissions and running the nightly tasks?

Show off!

I remember the days when I though a Zip disk was a marvel. And here I am down to my last 800Mb and getting worried.

katchow
Jan 8, 2003, 11:41 AM
all and all its pretty nice, still a few things that bug me though.

for one, when loading pages/images i like to see how fast i'm recieving data, i really want a kb per second display.

Another thing i noticed, if you click on a link to a jpg picture the browser will load the entire image before attempting to display it. I'd like to see something while it loads...i only say this because my dsl connection was painfully slow yesterday...it feels very unresponsive to not have a progressive view..

and finally, why cant we watch video clips in the browser? I don't mean embedded video in a web page, i mean, if i click on a link to an mpg file i would like it load in the window and let me watch it partially as it loads...now, it just automatically starts to download it to disk. Granted, i could never get IE to do this in OS X, but it use to in OS 9. IE in osx will load a video completely then open it in its own window (i dont care for that much either)...

thought of something else, the download window has a ways to go...the only options you have for files in you list is either "reveal in finder" or cancel download. No way to pull up some useful info like what is the url of this file i'm downloading?

i know its beta...i just hope a "minimilist GUI" doesn't mean we wont see more features.

For me, IE still has it despite the speed...trust me, i've always been reluctant about admitting that

artistry
Jan 8, 2003, 11:58 AM
Click on the link to see some useful info from Safari.

file:///Applications/Safari.app/Contents/Resources/English.lproj/Shortcuts.html

MacKenzie999
Jan 8, 2003, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by artistry
Click on the link to see some useful info from Safari.

file:///Applications/Safari.app/Contents/Resources/English.lproj/Shortcuts.html

I'm not getting anywere with this link, although I'd love some tips & shortcuts.

jayscheuerle
Jan 8, 2003, 12:30 PM
here (http://jokke.dk/software/)

artistry
Jan 8, 2003, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by MacKenzie999


I'm not getting anywere with this link, although I'd love some tips & shortcuts.

Try typing the link into your browser address bar. Alteranatively, if you option click on Safari, and open the package, you'll be able to find an HTML file with all the available shortcuts.


I've attached the file - save you the trouble! (Hope it works)

Macpoops
Jan 8, 2003, 02:13 PM
How long before MS borrows the snapback feature?

Timothy
Jan 8, 2003, 02:20 PM
I spend the day on Safari yesterday...

1) Several sites did not load. This is critical, and will kill my use of Safari.
2) I've keep getting garbled fonts. Have to quit, relaunch
3) It won't keep my "Home Page" after I quit, log out, and then relaunch

As much as I was hopeful, I've put Safari aside for now. I'll check back again on the 1.0 release.

jayscheuerle
Jan 8, 2003, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by Macpoops
How long before MS borrows the snapback feature?

Why would anyone who has tabbed browsers available to them want this limited feature?

Machead III
Jan 8, 2003, 03:11 PM
Omg this has to be one of the greatest days of my computer life, I finaly can throw IE out the window and use this sexy beast :D Damn I love it, plus I don't use tabs so I don't care, but a sweet wizzing compass for a loading icon would be nice :D

liquid_sky
Jan 8, 2003, 03:16 PM
What a great MWSF!! I love all the stuff they rolled out yesterday. 17" PB? - 'nuff said :D

Ok, Safari is great, BUT has anyone tried to visit any sites, that use SWF??? I wonder on one has come up with anything yet, since any flash site is playing back it's content sooo unbelievably slow, that it is a pain!!!
I can't believe it, but it is like 5-10 fps...
Anyone else had trouble, or is it just my machine (G4 867, 1 GB Ram, Internet connection: DSL).
Despite some people not liking swf content, this needs to be fixed! :)

cheers

alex_ant
Jan 8, 2003, 04:23 PM
Safari is definitely promising, but I won't use it until it gets tabs and stops looking so damned ugly.

Originally posted by ChicagoMac
Cool! Safari sets itself up as the default browser automatically. Checking my mail from MSN messenger now opens up Safari instead if IE!
When Apple changes our default browser without warning, we say, "Cool!" When Microsoft does it, we say "DAMN YOU SONS OF BITCHES!!!"

appleguy
Jan 8, 2003, 04:31 PM
[/i]
...and one more thing:
Remember my damn passwords

It remembers all my passwords
I only have one problem. it doesn't like one of my works suppliers shop sites but it is only a beta, this will be fixed it know it will be.

Juventuz
Jan 8, 2003, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by jayscheuerle
here (http://jokke.dk/software/)

THANK YOU for that link. Now Safari looks VERY nice and blends in well.

For those who don't know, the link above gets rid of the brushed metal look in Safari and replaces it with the tradtional Aqua look.

Looks a lot better in my opinion.:p :D

blackpeter
Jan 8, 2003, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by alex_ant
Safari is definitely promising, but I won't use it until it gets tabs and stops looking so damned ugly.


When Apple changes our default browser without warning, we say, "Cool!" When Microsoft does it, we say "DAMN YOU SONS OF BITCHES!!!"

There must be some mistake because when I installed Safari it didn't remove Chimera from the default browser position. However, maybe it replaces IE because pretty much ANYTHING is better than IE.

By the way, I love Safari! It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside to be on an Apple branded browser. I'm not totally sold on it being faster than Chimera, but it's darn close enough for me.

I'm sure tabs will be ours soon, but when they're added it'll be a little feature that won't be enabled by default. Joe consumer doesn't know anything about tabbed browsing. In fact, Joe consumer usually doesn't browse 2 sites at the same time.

JupiterZen
Jan 8, 2003, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by Juventuz
Well i just read the help for Safari and it specifically states that it will not import bookmarks from any other browser but IE.


Bookmarks have always been just a HTML file with links in it. Shown in a menu. It's like this in IE, Netscape, Opera (i think).

So I don't see why it won't be able to import those.

Someone correct me if i'm missing something.

MrMacMan
Jan 8, 2003, 05:38 PM
Originally posted by AmbitiousLemon
it doesnt seem to do anything right. i can not think of a single redeaming feature.

?the menus are cluttered and disorganized.
?the window interface seems very unpolished.
?it is the slowest browser i have used in years
?it has major rendering problems with most of the sites i have visited.
?no tabs

i find it hard to beleive a browser based on the mozilla code base could be this bad. this browser is terrible, i hope it dies quietly.
... wtf are you running?
The menus aren't bad, unpolished check (very)beta.
Slowest browser in *years* well that means even before Chim ?? No major rendering problems expect Flash. Tabs will be here.
Safari is the fastest browser on my Ti 550. However, I agree with the people here that Safari needs improvement. Luckily it's still in beta.

Here's what I think Safari needs:

- Tabs, of course.
- Storable passwords.
- Autofill and form complete like all the other major broswers.
- A button to see your current downloads.
- Auction Tracker (Why hasn't anyone mentioned this?)
- kb/s indicator.

I do not think safari is responsible for the slow flash speeds. Flash is terribly slow in osx compared to windows. Macromedia needs to get on that immediately.

I agree with you but you can learn the Command for downloads. Everything else is just a bonus to have
Safari is definitely promising, but I won't use it until it gets tabs and stops looking so damned ugly.
quote:
Originally posted by ChicagoMac
Cool! Safari sets itself up as the default browser automatically. Checking my mail from MSN messenger now opens up Safari instead if IE!

When Apple changes our default browser without warning, we say, "Cool!" When Microsoft does it, we say "DAMN YOU SONS OF BITCHES!!!" Acually it asked you if you wanted to make it your default... when installing, not automatically

Anyway it is not really bad at all, the brushed metal doesn't look perfect but I think that download helped the look out.

Speed is nice faster than all other on my computer by atleast .1 seconds. (I ran a test)
It is a nice start for a browser.

jkojima
Jan 8, 2003, 07:14 PM
I want zoom. Not Safari's version of zoom - which I think should be handled by the maximize button anyway - but the ability to easily zoom in on both text and graphics. Sure the graphics will look pixelated, but sometimes even +10% can make the difference between having to squint and viewing comfortably for pages designed for low-res displays.

I forget what browser had it, but I once used one where you could store a page, for example a search results page, on the left-hand side of the window. Clicking on the links on that page would load the respective page in the main area of the window. Thus, a user doing research wouldn't have to bother with "open link in new window" in order to preserve the search results page, saving a lot of time and keeping things organized.

Otherwise, Safari is the most responsive app of any kind that I've used in OS X and I think it's a great start!

jaykk
Jan 8, 2003, 07:31 PM
According to this Macentral Article (http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0301/08.safaridownload.php) , Safari breaks single day download record.
"Safari has been downloaded 300,000 times in the last 24 hours -- the previous download record for Apple was for iTunes, which had two days of 100,000 downloads. "

Apple should have released the browser a long time ago, along with Jaguar. Most of the sluggishness of Mac OS X is perceived by slow browser(ie) performance . Now with Safari browsing seems to be "InstantOn". Good Job apple.

cablejump
Jan 8, 2003, 07:53 PM
Safari is great, but when u save a file, it doesnt ask u where to save it- it only automatically saves it to the desktop or somewhere else that is set in preferences......

MacBandit
Jan 8, 2003, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by jkojima
I want zoom. Not Safari's version of zoom - which I think should be handled by the maximize button anyway - but the ability to easily zoom in on both text and graphics. Sure the graphics will look pixelated, but sometimes even +10% can make the difference between having to squint and viewing comfortably for pages designed for low-res displays.

I forget what browser had it, but I once used one where you could store a page, for example a search results page, on the left-hand side of the window. Clicking on the links on that page would load the respective page in the main area of the window. Thus, a user doing research wouldn't have to bother with "open link in new window" in order to preserve the search results page, saving a lot of time and keeping things organized.

Otherwise, Safari is the most responsive app of any kind that I've used in OS X and I think it's a great start!

Your page saving thing is called the, "page holder," in IE.

Centris 650
Jan 8, 2003, 11:03 PM
The main thing I'd like to see is an autofill/form feature. I use it like crazy. Auction Tracker would be nice and maybe a Composer feature like Navigator. Everything else is gravy!

Very pleased with Safari so far and looking forward to the release of Safari Gold.:D :cool:

G4scott
Jan 9, 2003, 12:13 AM
A little pic to show my feelings...

AndrewMT
Jan 9, 2003, 01:49 AM
Here's a good thread on features other users would like added to Safari.

http://discussions.info.apple.com/WebX?50@162.c4IjavL6fbi.2@.3bbdc073/30

engpjp
Jan 9, 2003, 06:20 AM
Originally posted by tfaz1


There must be some mistake because when I installed Safari it didn't remove Chimera from the default browser position. However, maybe it replaces IE because pretty much ANYTHING is better than IE.

By the way, I love Safari! It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside to be on an Apple branded browser. I'm not totally sold on it being faster than Chimera, but it's darn close enough for me.

I'm sure tabs will be ours soon, but when they're added it'll be a little feature that won't be enabled by default. Joe consumer doesn't know anything about tabbed browsing. In fact, Joe consumer usually doesn't browse 2 sites at the same time.

engpjp
Jan 9, 2003, 06:40 AM
Originally posted by JupiterZen


Bookmarks have always been just a HTML file with links in it. Shown in a menu. It's like this in IE, Netscape, Opera (i think).

So I don't see why it won't be able to import those.

Someone correct me if i'm missing something.

AFAIK Safari Bookmarks is a plist, in XML format. It has already been repeated several times, here and otherwise, how to import (or re-import) bookmarks from Chimera and IE into Safari:

- Export the bookmarks from Chimera as an html file.

- Then open IE and open the bookmark organization window.

- Now drag and drop the new html file on this window. Voíla, now you have all your Chimera bookmarks in IE.

- The next step is to do a search for Safari and to delete the .plist preference file. See below

- Next time you open Chimera, it will think that it is the first time, and it will import all your bookmarks, both the original IE ones and the ones that you just dropped into IE, and put them in Safari folders and all. This includes subfolders.

Safari hides its .plist Bookmark file in ~/Library/Safari/ which is actually breaking the rules; it should be in ~/Library/Bookmarks/ and should be HTML so other browsers can share them. But of course that would make it too easy to use other browsers! Also, the use of the XML standard to save user preferences and personal information/data seems to be an underlying strategy of Apple's - and the unifying, flexible standard makes it much easier to not only exchange information between iApps but also via iSync and RendezVous (of which we have heard only the beginning..)

engpjp

PS - the method sketched above was developed and described by someone else than me; unfortunately I forgot who...

artistry
Jan 9, 2003, 06:44 AM
Originally posted by jkojima
I want zoom. Not Safari's version of zoom - which I think should be handled by the maximize button anyway - but the ability to easily zoom in on both text and graphics.

Try Universal Access in your system control panels. There are some hints on using the zoom feature at macosXhints.com if you do a search.

aijcb
Jan 9, 2003, 07:02 AM
I really like tabbed browsing, specifically for being able to load multiple ites at once from the same bookmark. However for Safari I think it would be better to use the drawer UI convention. Look at the Preview app : opening multiple images does not open multiple windows in Preview but a single one, with the thumbnails for the images available in a drawer. Safari should do the same with "tabs" : place them in a drawer. Functionally equivalent to tabbed browsing but we also get thumbnails for the tabbed pages and a scrollable drawer for many "tabs" at once

jayscheuerle
Jan 9, 2003, 08:03 AM
Originally posted by AndrewMT
Here's a good thread on features other users would like added to Safari.

http://discussions.info.apple.com/WebX?50@162.c4IjavL6fbi.2@.3bbdc073/30

Right click...open in new tab.

Yes, it's nice to have an Apple browser, but why would anyone choose this over Chimera?

jayscheuerle
Jan 9, 2003, 08:05 AM
Originally posted by aijcb
I really like tabbed browsing, specifically for being able to load multiple ites at once from the same bookmark. However for Safari I think it would be better to use the drawer UI convention. Look at the Preview app : opening multiple images does not open multiple windows in Preview but a single one, with the thumbnails for the images available in a drawer. Safari should do the same with "tabs" : place them in a drawer. Functionally equivalent to tabbed browsing but we also get thumbnails for the tabbed pages and a scrollable drawer for many "tabs" at once

Do any of the brushed-metal iApps use drawers?

artistry
Jan 9, 2003, 09:10 AM
Originally posted by jayscheuerle


Do any of the brushed-metal iApps use drawers?

No afaik - Mail does if you count that?

JupiterZen
Jan 9, 2003, 09:22 AM
Thnx for the info ;)

Originally posted by engpjp


AFAIK Safari Bookmarks is a plist, in XML format. It has already been repeated several times, here and otherwise, how to import (or re-import) bookmarks from Chimera and IE into Safari:

- Export the bookmarks from Chimera as an html file.

- Then open IE and open the bookmark organization window.

- Now drag and drop the new html file on this window. Voíla, now you have all your Chimera bookmarks in IE.

- The next step is to do a search for Safari and to delete the .plist preference file. See below

- Next time you open Chimera, it will think that it is the first time, and it will import all your bookmarks, both the original IE ones and the ones that you just dropped into IE, and put them in Safari folders and all. This includes subfolders.

Safari hides its .plist Bookmark file in ~/Library/Safari/ which is actually breaking the rules; it should be in ~/Library/Bookmarks/ and should be HTML so other browsers can share them. But of course that would make it too easy to use other browsers! Also, the use of the XML standard to save user preferences and personal information/data seems to be an underlying strategy of Apple's - and the unifying, flexible standard makes it much easier to not only exchange information between iApps but also via iSync and RendezVous (of which we have heard only the beginning..)

engpjp

PS - the method sketched above was developed and described by someone else than me; unfortunately I forgot who...

MacBandit
Jan 9, 2003, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by engpjp


AFAIK Safari Bookmarks is a plist, in XML format. It has already been repeated several times, here and otherwise, how to import (or re-import) bookmarks from Chimera and IE into Safari:

- Export the bookmarks from Chimera as an html file.

- Then open IE and open the bookmark organization window.

- Now drag and drop the new html file on this window. Voíla, now you have all your Chimera bookmarks in IE.

- The next step is to do a search for Safari and to delete the .plist preference file. See below

- Next time you open Chimera, it will think that it is the first time, and it will import all your bookmarks, both the original IE ones and the ones that you just dropped into IE, and put them in Safari folders and all. This includes subfolders.

Safari hides its .plist Bookmark file in ~/Library/Safari/ which is actually breaking the rules; it should be in ~/Library/Bookmarks/ and should be HTML so other browsers can share them. But of course that would make it too easy to use other browsers! Also, the use of the XML standard to save user preferences and personal information/data seems to be an underlying strategy of Apple's - and the unifying, flexible standard makes it much easier to not only exchange information between iApps but also via iSync and RendezVous (of which we have heard only the beginning..)

engpjp

PS - the method sketched above was developed and described by someone else than me; unfortunately I forgot who...

I figured that one out. Glad I could help everyone. Looks like you copied what I wrote directly word for word and reoganized a little. Thanks for helping people get the word on this. That's what makes the Mac community great.:)

agp
Jan 9, 2003, 10:42 AM
I don't know if this has been said before but placing the fact the the zoom button does not full screen safari as a bad point is wrong!

We finally have a browser with the function I loved in OmniWeb....when you zoom safari it tggles between the actual size of the webpage and the previous size you set it to....therefore you can set it to the correct size to view as much as possible on screen without wasting sceen area.

That is exactly what OmniWeb did and how a mac should be used!

In windows most apps fill the entire screen with a window and then you have internal document windows...on a mac you don't have the surrounding app window so you can easily click on a window in the background...why would you ever want to full-screen an app unless you can see more content (not more whitespace!)?

Chisholm
Jan 9, 2003, 10:45 AM
OK, it took me 30 minutes to read everyone's comments. I hate to admit this, but I went to the premier.dell.com sight (for WORK reasons people) and found that .asp pages don't work. I know Safari is based on open source code and that Microsoft's .asp is, of course closed. But does that mean that Safari will never be able to read these files?

I chunked Internet Exploder before Safari was even installed, but had to go find it again just to compare a Dell server to an Apple server.

Oh, and another thing. I like all the extra space safari gives. No bottom or right side scroll area when its not needed. It allows a well done web page to look more like a work of art. The day web sites no longer use frames will be a great day IMHO.

cheers!

John

MacBandit
Jan 9, 2003, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by Chisholm
OK, it took me 30 minutes to read everyone's comments. I hate to admit this, but I went to the premier.dell.com sight (for WORK reasons people) and found that .asp pages don't work. I know Safari is based on open source code and that Microsoft's .asp is, of course closed. But does that mean that Safari will never be able to read these files?

I chunked Internet Exploder before Safari was even installed, but had to go find it again just to compare a Dell server to an Apple server.

Oh, and another thing. I like all the extra space safari gives. No bottom or right side scroll area when its not needed. It allows a well done web page to look more like a work of art. The day web sites no longer use frames will be a great day IMHO.

cheers!

John


First let me say that I agree on the scroll bars and I also agree on the previously stated full screen issue.

Have you tried Chimera? Does it work with .asp pages? At the moment it is still the best browser on the mac IMHO, though Safari is really close even in beta form.

whiskeybravo
Jan 9, 2003, 11:11 AM
Originally posted by aijcb
...Safari should do the same with "tabs" : place them in a drawer. Functionally equivalent to tabbed browsing but we also get thumbnails for the tabbed pages and a scrollable drawer for many "tabs" at once

Now THAT is one hell of an idea, and something where Apple could be seen to be breaking new ground. Get it to Hyatt!

Doctor Q
Jan 9, 2003, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by Chisholm
OK, it took me 30 minutes to read everyone's comments. I hate to admit this, but I went to the premier.dell.com sight (for WORK reasons people) and found that .asp pages don't work. I know Safari is based on open source code and that Microsoft's .asp is, of course closed. But does that mean that Safari will never be able to read these files?
I thought ASP (Active Server Pages) was a server-side technology, almost always used with Microsoft's IIS web server. Therefore, a web browser doesn't "work with ASP" or "not work with ASP", i.e., it's the web server that does or doesn't. The web browser merely has to work with the HTML and other coding that result from the processing of a ASP page. Maybe, in the case you found, the page contains scripting that is not handled correctly or uses some feature specific to Internet Explorer. But I don't think the use of ASP is to blame.

Those in the know please correct me if I am misstating the facts.

Chisholm
Jan 9, 2003, 11:53 AM
Shows how much I know about .asp.:rolleyes:

artistry
Jan 9, 2003, 12:12 PM
Apple have (quietly) released some Applescripts for Safari:

Click here (http://www.apple.com/applescript/safari/)

agp
Jan 9, 2003, 05:30 PM
You are correct about ASP.

The server processes the VBScript or JScript embedded within HTML in an ASP page to build dynamic content. The page is then transported across HTTP to your browser as HTML (with a URL that contains asp as the file extension since you requested the server to deliver the processed asp page).

Doctor Q
Jan 9, 2003, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by artistry
Apple have (quietly) released some Applescripts for Safari
It wasn't really so quiet. The link is right on the main http://www.apple.com/safari/ page.

I posted a question yesterday about whether anyone had tried writing an AppleScript for Safari yet. Has anyone done so yet?

If you AppleScript programmers need a suggestion, how 'bout a simple script that prompts you for your first name and last name (e.g., Desmond Llewelyn), or lets you drag it out of your address book, then forms the You Are My Friend URL (e.g., http://Desmond.Llewelyn.youaremyfriend.com/) and finally sends you there. (If you haven't tried the You Are My Friend site, just fill in your own name and type in the URL yourself.)

artistry
Jan 9, 2003, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by Doctor Q

If you AppleScript programmers need a suggestion, how 'bout a simple script that prompts you for your first name and last name (e.g., Desmond Llewelyn), or lets you drag it out of your address book, then forms the You Are My Friend URL (e.g., http://Desmond.Llewelyn.youaremyfriend.com/) and finally sends you there. (If you haven't tried the You Are My Friend site, just fill in your own name and type in the URL yourself.)

Here - copy this into script editor and run it.

Shoudl work:

display dialog "Enter your Forename" default answer "Forename" buttons {"Cancel", "OK"} default button 2
set myForename to the text returned of the result
display dialog "Enter your Surname" default answer "Surname" buttons {"Cancel", "OK"} default button 2
set mySurname to the text returned of the result
set target_URL to "http://" & myForename & "." & mySurname & ".youaremyfriend.com/"

open location target_URL

Nice and simple! :)

Doctor Q
Jan 9, 2003, 10:19 PM
Thanks for the AppleScript, artistry. It works perfectly. In fact, it works no matter which web browser is your default, since it doesn't use anything Safari-specific.

artistry, you are my friend! (http://artistry.youaremyfriend.com/)

I guess I didn't give you scripters much of a challenge. OK, now I need an AppleScript that solves the following problems and formats the answers as a web page in Safari:

* What is the correct TOE (theory of everything) in physics?

* How can we prevent war and famine and cure all known diseases?

* How do you prove or disprove the Riemann Hypothesis in mathematics?

* Why is Zsa Zsa Gabor famous?

I thank you in advance.

Doctor Q
Jan 10, 2003, 12:52 AM
Now that you are done laughing at my joke (you DID laugh at my joke, didn't you?), here's a serious question.

I tried the "Full Screen" AppleScript posted at http://www.apple.com/applescript/safari/.

Supposedly, the script "hides the Dock and expands the front browser window to fill the screen".

When I run it, this line in the script:

set dock_showing to do shell script "defaults read com.apple.dock autohide"

produces this error message:

defaults[493]
The domain/default pair or
(com.apple.dock, autohide) does not exist

Why?

artistry
Jan 10, 2003, 02:13 AM
Originally posted by Doctor Q
Thanks for the AppleScript, artistry. It works perfectly. In fact, it works no matter which web browser is your default, since it doesn't use anything Safari-specific.

artistry, you are my friend! (http://artistry.youaremyfriend.com/)

I guess I didn't give you scripters much of a challenge. OK, now I need an AppleScript that solves the following problems and formats the answers as a web page in Safari:

* What is the correct TOE (theory of everything) in physics?

* How can we prevent war and famine and cure all known diseases?

* How do you prove or disprove the Riemann Hypothesis in mathematics?

* Why is Zsa Zsa Gabor famous?

I thank you in advance.

Oh that's easy...

display dialog "The answer to your question is 42" buttons {"Cancel", "OK"} default button 2 :D

artistry
Jan 10, 2003, 02:15 AM
Originally posted by Doctor Q
Now that you are done laughing at my joke (you DID laugh at my joke, didn't you?), here's a serious question.

I tried the "Full Screen" AppleScript posted at http://www.apple.com/applescript/safari/.

Supposedly, the script "hides the Dock and expands the front browser window to fill the screen".

When I run it, this line in the script:

set dock_showing to do shell script "defaults read com.apple.dock autohide"

produces this error message:

defaults[493]
The domain/default pair or
(com.apple.dock, autohide) does not exist

Why?

I get an error message when it tries to count my windows. Mmmm...

Do you have your dock set to autohide? Try switching that off - does it work then?

Doctor Q
Jan 10, 2003, 09:55 PM
Autohide on. Autohide off. Same problem. I don't really need this script to work; I was just experimenting, so don't worry about it.

artistry
Jan 11, 2003, 06:30 AM
Originally posted by Doctor Q
Autohide on. Autohide off. Same problem. I don't really need this script to work; I was just experimenting, so don't worry about it.

But I do... :(

Applescript is an odd beast - but that's the price you pay for something so, erm, 'friendly'. I do like it, but occasionally it acts a bit strange...

Doctor Q
Jan 11, 2003, 10:51 AM
I puzzled and puzzled over a simple bug in an AppleScript I wrote for the computer teacher at a local school where I volunteer. It was a script to open or close all the student folders, arranging them neatly on the screen. For the window-closing routine, I counted the windows and then had a loop close "window N" for each N. I was totally baffled when it didn't work, until I figured out that as soon as you close a window, the meaning of "window 1", "window 2", etc. changes. What used to be "window 2" might now be "window 1". I had a good laugh at my own expense but I learned that even the simplest tasks can throw you off if you're missing a concept.

artistry
Jan 12, 2003, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by Doctor Q
I figured out that as soon as you close a window, the meaning of "window 1", "window 2", etc. changes. What used to be "window 2" might now be "window 1". I had a good laugh at my own expense but I learned that even the simplest tasks can throw you off if you're missing a concept.

Yep, that got me last week actually. Even with Applescript you still have to think like a computer!