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View Full Version : Newbie Logic Pro 7 help, please :)




euphoriasonic
Jan 8, 2006, 08:59 PM
Hello all, first Mac Forums post here. I recently purchased (and registered) Logic Pro 7, that I am running on my 12" PowerBook G4, with 1.25 GB of RAM, MOTU Traveler (192Khz - 8 x analog inputs) interface and LaCie external firewire SATA rack-mount drive. I have an Audio Engineering degree in Recording Arts, from Full Sail. Was trained on Pro Tools HD systems, SSL and Amek boards, etc;. Pretty much all new to Logic Pro 7...

I can change track names, select the audio track number, and solo and mute tracks. I have imported two audio tracks, that i'm trying to edit and fade together. In Pro Tools, one track is above the other, like in the arrange window for Logic. All tracks are played, unless a solo, mute or "voice" is un/activated in the program. However, I have two tracks in Logic, and only one will play. I can solo the other one, and it will play... but then the first one is inaudible. I can mute the first one, and then the second one will play. How come they won't both play at the same time? I'm confused, and searched the Logic Pro 7 manual for help, with no luck. It has to be something simple, like a preference i have turned on/off. Any help please? Thanks... :)



-Jeff
Jan 8, 2006, 09:22 PM
It sounds like both audio clips are assigned to the same "Audio Track" in Logic. For example, they both might be assigned to Audio 1. Do they both have the same track name? If so, you will need to assign one of them to a diferent Audio Track. Click and hold on the name of the audio track (just to the left the audio clip waveform, not on the waveform block itself) and a menu will come up where you can select a different audio track.

euphoriasonic
Jan 8, 2006, 09:45 PM
It sounds like both audio clips are assigned to the same "Audio Track" in Logic. For example, they both might be assigned to Audio 1. Do they both have the same track name? If so, you will need to assign one of them to a diferent Audio Track. Click and hold on the name of the audio track (just to the left the audio clip waveform, not on the waveform block itself) and a menu will come up where you can select a different audio track.
That was exactly my thoughts. I have to re-open the project, and just start over i think. They are both named differently, one track was placed under "audio 1" and the other track under "audio 2". Then i renamed them both. I will try to re-import them, onto seperate tracks again. thanks :)

euphoriasonic
Jan 10, 2006, 06:23 PM
ok, still not working. tried re-importing the audio into new tracks, and created a whole new session, twice. Still won't let me play both tracks at once... track 1 just covers up track 2 completely, and now i can't even solo track 2 and hear it... just silence. really weird, what am i missing here?!?

all i'm doing is importing an audio dialogue to "audio track one" and a music mix to "audio track two". there's no reason why this shouldn't work... really confused?!?

zimv20
Jan 10, 2006, 06:43 PM
yep, this is why pro tools won me over -- it worked as i expected it to.

euphoriasonic
Jan 11, 2006, 10:21 PM
yep, this is why pro tools won me over -- it worked as i expected it to.
:confused:
i have pro tools, and using it now to do my work...
but i bought logic because it's better. i know it's something stupid, i just can't seem to figure it out... anyone have any logical ideas, please?!?

zimv20
Jan 11, 2006, 10:40 PM
but i bought logic because it's better.
better? in what way? i'm not a rampant defender of digi by any means, but i'm really curious how someone can simply declare one or the other "better", rather than concentrating on strengths and weaknesses or its applicability for a certain task.

euphoriasonic
Jan 11, 2006, 11:20 PM
better? in what way? i'm not a rampant defender of digi by any means, but i'm really curious how someone can simply declare one or the other "better", rather than concentrating on strengths and weaknesses or its applicability for a certain task.
better?? = for the money, you get 192Khz capabilities and the most advanced midi editing and audio mastering tools. The complexity and difficulty level is way beyond that of Pro Tools, simply because there is just that much more there to understand. You can't buy Pro Tools for less than a grand, and be able to record film audio in the exact same frame rate the camera is shooting at, or even directly connect to time code and sync so that it records at the very same time - making for the easiest post production ever possible - NO, you have to spend at least $5-6 grand just to get the 192 interface capability in HD, and then boats more on they external sync interface and DV toolkit packages, as well as extra plug-ins. I got Logic and the MOTU Traveler (8 x analog inputs / 192Khz / word clock-adat-lightpipe-aes/ebu I/O / and all bus-powered for mobility) for less than $2 grand. beat that with a stick.

It's just that Logic has so much going on, it's easy to overlook something probably as simple as my problem. It's really bugging me... i know it's silly something, but i can't seem to locate the reason why it's only outputting one track audio (even checked the audio mixer outputs, they're set correctly), and covering the other?!? Help, pls :D

zimv20
Jan 11, 2006, 11:30 PM
i know it's silly something, but i can't seem to locate the reason why it's only outputting one track audio
please reread your argument for logic being better and consider that the case you're making largely centers on specific uses: syncing to film and midi.

i do neither, most of what i do has to do w/ recording audio and mixing to stereo. typical band stuff. for me, PT is better (and you can get into pro tools for less than a grand, btw). it's also a better choice when one wants be compatible w/ other studios.

finally, PT was better for me because it took me about 15 seconds to figure out how to record and play back an audio signal. you're still struggling to do that in logic, so i ask you how an app which you can't use can be "better"?

euphoriasonic
Jan 11, 2006, 11:52 PM
dude, pls go away. i'm not gonna sit here and argue with you about Logic being better. It does everything Pro Tools does, and more. so it's BETTER. Yeah, Pro Tools is simple to use, and it's an industry standard. I OWN IT, and USE IT. The MBOX is $450 at only 48Khz, and the 002 rack around $1000 is 96Khz. Logic is not only 192Khz ready out-of-the box and even plays through your computer soundcard, but hooks up to many more possible interfaces (including DIGI hardware - but PT won't except anything BUT Digi hardware)So, I also bought Logic, because it's BETTER. it's for the next LEVEL in Production... it just requires more time and patience to get used to, because it's more advanced. If you're not going to help me with my problem, please go seek a software argument elsewhere, until you know what you're talking about. Thanks for wasting my time and thread space :p

zimv20
Jan 11, 2006, 11:55 PM
dude, pls go away. i'm not gonna sit here and argue with you about Logic being better.
you're the one who made the claim. i think it's hilarious that you're defending a program you can't even figure out.

how much did you pay for that full sail education, anyway?

euphoriasonic
Jan 12, 2006, 12:00 AM
Admins, you can please close this thread now... it's become pointless. :mad:

Sundance Kid
Jan 12, 2006, 01:09 AM
yep, this is why pro tools won me over -- it worked as i expected it to.

Notice how what you said didn't help him at all, and only started an argument. Now Euphoriasonic wants the thread shut down. Macrumors is a place for help, not a place to make snide comments. So please, just keep your rudeness to yourself.



(btw, i read this thread because i know a friend who uses Logic for a living....)

euphoriasonic
Jan 12, 2006, 01:17 AM
Notice how what you said didn't help him at all, and only started an argument. Now Euphoriasonic wants the thread shut down. Macrumors is a place for help, not a place to make snide comments. So please, just keep your rudeness to yourself.



(btw, i read this thread because i know a friend who uses Logic for a living....)
Thank you Sundance. I also use my DAW programs for my living, as an audio editor and engineer. If anyone does have any help for my peculiar issue, i'd really appreciate it. :)

zimv20
Jan 12, 2006, 01:24 AM
Notice how what you said didn't help him at all, and only started an argument.
actually, the post of mine you quoted was me being sympathetic, as i've been through the same thing and found logic to be a little confusing on the issue.

the "argument" didn't start until someone made an unsupportable claim that one product is better than the other. as i'm wont to do in such circumstances, i called him on it. maybe it'll save some poor sucker from buying logic based only on one guy's assertion that it's "better". you know, it being MR and me being helpful and all.

euphoriasonic
Jan 12, 2006, 01:27 AM
Admin pls :(

Kernow
Jan 12, 2006, 01:36 AM
Before you close it - try this:

It sounds like you have only one audio object in the Environment window (or you have assigned both tracks to the same audio object). I have just opened Logic and this is the effect you get if this happens.

If you open your environment window (Windows>Environment) and navigate to the Audio layer via the box on the left hand side, see if you have more than one audio object. If not, create a new one (New>Audio object)

Then, in the arrange window, click and hold down on the track name and navigate to the audio object you want to assign the track to. Make sure these are different.

This should work. If not, come back and we'll try something else.

euphoriasonic
Jan 12, 2006, 01:43 AM
This should work. If not, come back and we'll try something else.
Thanks Kernow. Trying now... will post back shortly :D

euphoriasonic
Jan 12, 2006, 02:23 AM
k. checked that each track has it's own "audio object" in the environment. However, only the one track is still playing... nothing muted, nothing solo'd. the audio level meter is displaying the same audio signal on both tracks (even though they are on different tracks - 1 & 2 - and named seperately), for some reason?!?

Trying to read up on layers and the environment, do they need seperate layers, that doesn't sound right?!?

Kernow
Jan 12, 2006, 02:30 AM
k. checked that each track has it's own "audio object" in the environment. However, only the one track is still playing... nothing muted, nothing solo'd. the audio level meter is displaying the same audio signal on both tracks (even though they are on different tracks - 1 & 2 - and named seperately), for some reason?!?

Trying to read up on layers and the environment, do they need seperate layers, that doesn't sound right?!?

They won't need separate layers - these are just a way of filtering what you can see in the Environment window.

Have you double checked that the tracks are actually assigned to the different audio objects?

I will carry on playing with Logic to find out what else it could be.

euphoriasonic
Jan 12, 2006, 02:35 AM
Have you double checked that the tracks are actually assigned to the different audio objects?

I will carry on playing with Logic to find out what else it could be.
Thanks, i really appreciate your help. I definately checked the environment, like you said. double clicking on each track name in the arrange window, brings up the environment (which for the audio tracks, is just like the audio mixer - channel strips), and each one is named (1. dialogue and 2. intro music). 1. is assigned to Track one, and 2. is assigned to track 2.

Back in the arrange window, holding down on the name will reveal the audio menu, and they each point to their seperately named tracks. As i mentioned, track one's audio signel meter, in both the arrange and environment window while playing, shows the same signal on both channels... instead of being two totally different signals, as one track is "dialogue" and the other is actually "intro music" - trying to mix them together. :confused:

Kernow
Jan 12, 2006, 02:44 AM
Hmm - sounds odd. I'm sure you're right and it's one simple thing we're overlooking.

Are you importing this from another app, or are these raw audio files you are bringing in?

Whenever Logic has flummoxed me in the past, I've always started completely from scratch, i.e. open a new session, delete all tracks and all objects in the environment, and then build the session up from the ground, creating individual audio objects as I need them and new tracks as I need them. It's a pain in the arse, but can eliminate some errors.

Another thing to try might be to quit logic, trash the logic preferences and restart incase something has become corrupted.

I am off to college in a moment, but I will ask around to see if anyone has any advice (I'm studying audio engineering, so someone should know). I'll check in when I get back.

euphoriasonic
Jan 12, 2006, 02:52 AM
Hmm - sounds odd. I'm sure you're right and it's one simple thing we're overlooking.

Are you importing this from another app, or are these raw audio files you are bringing in?

Whenever Logic has flummoxed me in the past, I've always started completely from scratch, i.e. open a new session, delete all tracks and all objects in the environment, and then build the session up from the ground, creating individual audio objects as I need them and new tracks as I need them. It's a pain in the arse, but can eliminate some errors.

Yea, i tried starting the session over 3 different times, however still same issue... just odd. Yes, they're straight audio files, 16-bit 44100 .wav tracks - reading directly from my LaCie SATA external. They load up perfectly fine and mix well in Pro Tools, which is what i've been using for the last two days, cuz i can't seem to get them to work in Logic at the moment... and it has to be something down-right silly, in front of me most-likely. I'm waiting on some replies from audio friends at the moment, as well. Thanks for your time and help :D

howesey
Jan 12, 2006, 03:48 AM
dude, pls go away. i'm not gonna sit here and argue with you about Logic being better. It does everything Pro Tools does, and more. so it's BETTER. Yeah, Pro Tools is simple to use, and it's an industry standard. I OWN IT, and USE IT.
I wouldn't say it is industry standard. I know a lot of people that are trying to get out of Pro Tools. Quite a lot of people are switching to Logic. I have asked people why and they find PT very limiting and not keeping up with other sequences.

As for the question, I'm new to Logic also. I'm still getting to grips with MIDI in Logic so I havn't really had experience in audio.

euphoriasonic
Jan 16, 2006, 11:07 PM
Found my problem. So, track one's audio was covering up track 2, right? well, i just realized that while trying to import a stereo .wav file, it only filled up one MONO audio track. then upon playing the track and viewing the track mixer, it was indeed covering up track 2. NO waveform is displayed, noted or in anyway shown to extend over track 2, besides the signal level meter movement, in-time with track one.

Figured out why i couldn't hear track 2 while track one was playing now... because track one was a stereo track, and was unnoticeably covering up track two's voice with the second part of track one. Odd that Logic won't show the waveform over track 2. Is there a track setup feature in Logic, that makes tracks stereo instead of mono? This Logic Pro 7 manual book confuses me more and more when i read, versus trying to figure it out on my own....

Thanks for any help/suggestions :)

Kernow
Jan 17, 2006, 01:38 AM
Glad you sorted out the problem. Knew it had to be something simple. :)

I've not really used stereo tracks in Logic yet, as all my recordings have been with mono tracks, but if you look on the channel strip in the arrange window (or the mixer), there is a button with a circle on it under the level indicator. If you click this, it converts the track to stereo.

There are two types of stereo file - interleaved and split. I'm not sure which stereo .wav files are. Logic defaults to interleaved, but you can force it to use split by Logic>Preferences>Audio>General>Force Split Files.

You may also need to tinker with the Universal Track Mode in Preferences>Audio>Driver. This affects the way consecutively numbered tracks play back.

Zim Bargo
Jan 17, 2006, 06:59 AM
Hi Euphoriasonic,

Pleased to hear you managed to solve the problem. I don't pretend to know anything about Logic as I am currently using SX3, but am interested in moving over to Logic (or running both SX3 and Logic anyway).

You mentioned the Logic Pro user manual being confusing, which I've read in a few other places. I bought the Apple Pro Training Series book by Martin Sitter at the weekend, which has been incredibly useful (and straightforward to understand), taking away many of my initial fears about the size of the task I faced by switching.

Might be of use to you, might not...

Zim

euphoriasonic
Jan 17, 2006, 03:09 PM
Might be of use to you, might not...

Zim
Thanks for your help, Kernow. Really appreciate it...

i'm actually looking around for a good Logic Pro book or instruction video/PDF set to help me out. The Logic Pro Manual isn't really hard to understand, however they explain Logic too directly, and don't give much meaning into what each part of the program really means, or how it works in Lamens terms. So, in a way - it is confusing. Just so much more to understand and comprehend, compared to something like Pro Tools. ;)

quigleybc
Jan 17, 2006, 07:02 PM
There is a book by Martin Sitter..and it is a god send for Logic Users...an amazing how to book...for PRO"S too...and there is also the advanced version...

It is for sure that there will be a wealth of knowledge in that book for you..

Just a suggestion.


Google search "martin sitter Logic book" and you'll find it.

good luck...!!:)


*edit* Bargo beat me to it...doh!

euphoriasonic
Jan 19, 2006, 12:42 AM
Thanks guys, for all the help and book information. Need to pick that up as soon as i can. Have just a couple more questions, since i'm starting out - just want to see if anyone has any good first suggestions or quick hints for some time-saving while trying to mix:

1. Trying to edit production dialogue. Any quick help with strip silence (new to me) and any recommended plug-ins to navigate to, for fast adjustments (noise floor reducer, sibelance remover and just any usefull dynamic plug-in help)?!?

2. Love the custom key commands. Really used to Pro Tools editing. I'm used to the smart tool, is there anything similar in Logic? I'm fumbling over the new tool box...

Thanks! :D

Kernow
Jan 19, 2006, 01:46 AM
2. Love the custom key commands. Really used to Pro Tools editing. I'm used to the smart tool, is there anything similar in Logic? I'm fumbling over the new tool box...


I know what you mean. Having just started using Pro Tools, the smart tool is bit of a revelation. I have always found the Logic toolbox to be a little annoying.

The best I can offer is using Escape to toggle the toolbox at the cursor, although this is still a bit clumsy. It may be easier, as you say, to set custom key commands for the tools that you use the most and.

euphoriasonic
Jan 20, 2006, 10:27 PM
Any help on dialogue recordings, that are recorded over the peak limit? Using a Limiter in Pro Tools, with the threshold all the way up, and the gain pulled down pretty far... helps a bit, but can't find anything to really help lower the noise floor... it's loud. and the over-peak parts are rough sounding. Used some Joe Meek compression, too. But besides that and some Joe Meek EQ, I can't get it sounding too great... any suggestions? Thanks...

:D

zimv20
Jan 20, 2006, 10:52 PM
Any help on dialogue recordings, that are recorded over the peak limit? [...] can't find anything to really help lower the noise floor...
you're kinda S.O.L., though if you've got access to DINR and a sample of just the hiss, you may help bring down the noise some. is it analog or digital peaks that been exceeded? is the problem on tape, or is the tape fine and the problem happened during conversion? (assuming analog tape was the source)

who recorded it and can you get them to record it again?

euphoriasonic
Jan 21, 2006, 03:56 PM
who recorded it and can you get them to record it again?
They are original digital recordings. Can't be re-recorded. Need to clean it up as best as possible...

Want to use strip silence, because it helps alot. But it breaks up my one audio region into millions. I don't want the region broken up at all, just the noise floor level removed :confused:

zimv20
Jan 21, 2006, 04:11 PM
They are original digital recordings. Can't be re-recorded. Need to clean it up as best as possible...

i'm curious as to how this all happened. if the noise floor is high, then that says to me that whoever recorded it had the levels way too low. but if there's digital clipping, then that says to me that whoever recorded it had the levels way too high. how did it happen?

regardless, this is the kind of project where i'd investigate re-recording, if the talent's available. is this a film/video project, or just audio? i can see how the re-recording of the former would be problematic, but looping happens all the time in bigger pictures. did the engineer capture room tone?

strip silence isn't going to help because radical changes of background noise is disruptive. your only hope in post is to use a noise-reducing plug, like DINR. but i've found it to be no silver bullet; if the s/n ratio is too low, you can't pull out the noise w/o seriously changing the signal.

euphoriasonic
Jan 25, 2006, 05:07 PM
strip silence isn't going to help because radical changes of background noise is disruptive. your only hope in post is to use a noise-reducing plug, like DINR. but i've found it to be no silver bullet; if the s/n ratio is too low, you can't pull out the noise w/o seriously changing the signal.
yea, i was hoping logic has something like DINR. Strip silence actually works quite well, but it's more of a pain in the ass to re-align all my audio regions again, and kinda takes away the flow of the vocal dialogue. it's my job to fix the audio, it can't be re-recorded.

My main problem right now, is how can I add more stereo, or even mono audio tracks to the arrange window in logic? it is limiting me to 8 audio tracks right now, as that is how many inputs on my interface i have. This only allows 4 stereo tracks at one time. How can i just add more audio tracks? i'd like to import more audio, to mix with...?!?

Thanks :cool:

zimv20
Jan 25, 2006, 05:43 PM
Strip silence actually works quite well
isn't there a change in the noise floor between when someone is speaking and no one is? or are you laying in room tone to fill the gap? in film, silence is rarely silent.

euphoriasonic
Jan 25, 2006, 07:12 PM
Strip silence cuts out audio that is under a certain desired frequency, or even a certain noise level. basically, a glorified gate. it only lets out the audio that is above the specified level. the regions where the audio is not let-out, is deleted. blank space. no noise at all. great, except that during an entire speech, strip silence makes it sound like someone just cut up the audio dialogue with some scissors.... strip silence works best on drums or other instrument in a mix. not great for vocals.

does anyone know how to add extra audio tracks into Logic Pro? you know, like SHIF+APPLE+N in Pro Tools? Thanks...

zimv20
Jan 25, 2006, 07:32 PM
during an entire speech, strip silence makes it sound like someone just cut up the audio dialogue with some scissors....
yeah, that's what i'm talking about. lay in some room tone during those gaps to bring it back. did the recordist capture room tone?

Kernow
Jan 26, 2006, 02:02 AM
My main problem right now, is how can I add more stereo, or even mono audio tracks to the arrange window in logic? it is limiting me to 8 audio tracks right now, as that is how many inputs on my interface i have. This only allows 4 stereo tracks at one time. How can i just add more audio tracks? i'd like to import more audio, to mix with...?!?

To add more audio tracks, create a new audio object in the environment window, then double click on an empty track slot in the arrange window and assign the new track that is created to the audio object (by click and holding on the name of the track and navigating to the new audio object). There is probably a shortcut to do this, but this way will work.

There is also a preference in Preferences>Audio>Driver which sets the maximum number of audio tracks you can have in a session. If you are limited to 8, have a look at this & see if it is set too low.

euphoriasonic
Jan 26, 2006, 07:03 AM
To add more audio tracks, create a new audio object in the environment window, then double click on an empty track slot in the arrange window and assign the new track that is created to the audio object (by click and holding on the name of the track and navigating to the new audio object). There is probably a shortcut to do this, but this way will work.

There is also a preference in Preferences>Audio>Driver which sets the maximum number of audio tracks you can have in a session. If you are limited to 8, have a look at this & see if it is set too low.
Thanks! That was part of my problem... My Max was set at only 8 - moved it up a bit. i'm gonna see if this works now :D