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MacRumors
Jan 10, 2006, 01:21 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple has released the fastest notebook ever, dubbed the MacBook Pro (http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/), featuring an Intel Core Duo processor. Features of the new portable include a built-in iSight camera, IR Sensor, Apple Remote, ATI Radeon x1600 video processor, and a new, innovative magnetic power plug. The new MacBook Pro is available in two configurations:

1.67 Core Duo - $1999
Ships: February
15.4-inch TFT display with 1440x900 resolution
1.67GHz Intel Core Duo processor with 2MB shared L2 Cache
667MHz frontside bus
512MB (single SO-DIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-5300)
80GB 5400rpm Serial ATA hard drive
Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 128MB GDDR3 memory
iLife 06

1.83 Core Duo - $2499
Ships: February
15.4-inch TFT display with 1440x900 resolution
1.83GHz Intel Core Duo processor with 2MB shared L2 Cache
667MHz frontside bus
1GB (single SO-DIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-5300)
100GB 5400rpm Serial ATA hard drive
Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 256MB GDDR3 memory
iLife 06

MacBook Pro also features a full-size backlit keyboard, AirPort Extreme wireless networking (802.11b/g), Bluetooth 2.0+EDR, ExpressCard/34 slot, dual-link DVI video out, Gigabit Ethernet, USB 2.0, FireWire 400, and optical digital and analog audio in/out.

The MacBook Pro is available for preorder at Apple Store (http://www.dailytunes.com/applestore.php).

Lacero
Jan 10, 2006, 01:23 PM
Now I know why Steve saved this until the very last second!

One word: W00T!

For this occasion, I think I speak for everybody! :D

nagromme
Jan 10, 2006, 01:23 PM
There we go. Just as expected!

My Visa card just leapt out of my wallet like a spawning salmon. In slow motion. Glittering in the sunlight. Majestic music.


OK... bigger screen, thinner case, iSight camera, remote control (works with docked iPods too), dual CPU cores... and same case? Good. I LOVE the durability/scratch-resistance of my 2-year-old aluminum PowerBook.

Some notes on the specs... ExpressCard/34, not PC Card. FW 400 only. (FW800 only on some higher 17" model yet to come I assume?) Digital optical audio, mic, scrolling trackpad and lighted keys still standard. Slightly bigger screen, but wider in shape with slightly fewer pixels: 1440x900 (the old 15.2 had 1440x960). That's OK by me: I'm not a fan of tiny pixels. 128 or 256 VRAM. All models support 30" external screen apparently. No mention of TV out, but I assume it's still there (or at least with an adapter).

Slightly bigger footprint now: 9.6" deep vs. the old 9.5, and 14.1" wide vs. the old 13.7. Thinner but wider--if your old case is tight, you may need a new one. And it looks like the power brick is new--rectangular, but otherwise similar to the old square one. Still has the nice switchblade prongs.

http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/whatsinside.html

Now, somebody who knows laptop GPUs... how will the new MacBook's ATI X1600 be for Doom 3, say? My 2-year-old PB runs it... barely.

(And it can't be long until MacBook Express, or multiple screen sizes, or whatever replaces the iBook... and even a new Mac Mini... these are the first Intel Macs, not the last!)

clayj
Jan 10, 2006, 01:24 PM
Ordered! The 1.83 Core Duo with 1 GB of RAM.

MacNut
Jan 10, 2006, 01:25 PM
It appears that FW 800 is dead, unless the PowerMacs see it, That new power cord alone is worth it.

Patch^
Jan 10, 2006, 01:28 PM
:O :)

I'm a bit disappointed that there is no FW800 and not that many USBs, but still very cool!!

Now i have to save up for one lol...

stevep
Jan 10, 2006, 01:28 PM
My Visa card just leapt out of my wallet like a spawning salmon. In slow motion.
And so did mine. And then I saw the price and it went back in again. Once again the $ to £ conversion is just rubbish for UK buyers.

MacNut
Jan 10, 2006, 01:29 PM
I was wondering if Steve had a laptop up his sleave but I never expected a new um Powerbook.....ur Mac book Pro, don't like the name so much. But love the result it brings.

dodonutter
Jan 10, 2006, 01:30 PM
I want one but im way too poor and i already have a 1.5GHz 15" which is really fine for my needs.

Damn not being rich

FoxyKaye
Jan 10, 2006, 01:32 PM
Couldn't find it in the tech specs, but the Apple site is also swamped.

Does anyone know if the MacBook Pro has Sudden Motion Sensor? It should, but since I couldn't find it, thought I'd ask.

And yeah, the new power adapter is an excellent thing.

ShavenYak
Jan 10, 2006, 01:32 PM
This is a sad day. :(

It means the official end of "Powerbook G5 next Tuesday" comments. :D

About FW800... is it on any of the Windows-based Core Duo laptops? I'm betting this MacBook is a very generic design, whose sole purpose is to be out there as an alternative to them. Apple probably didn't want to spend a whole lot of time adding flair to what may be a transitional model before they really make the MacBook stand out from the crowd.

I'd bet that the Intel based PowerMacs (or whatever they get called) will have FW800.

devilot
Jan 10, 2006, 01:33 PM
Couldn't find it in the tech specs, but the Apple site is also swamped.

Does anyone know if the MacBook Pro has Sudden Motion Sensor? It should, but since I couldn't find it, thought I'd ask.Yes. I saw it briefly in a description somewhere... hahaha sorry. So vague and w/out a link to prove it. :o

atari1356
Jan 10, 2006, 01:33 PM
This is the machine I wanted a year ago... too bad I can't afford one now. :)

No FW800 is disappointing, but not a big deal. I'll wait for Rev. B.

wordmunger
Jan 10, 2006, 01:34 PM
No mention of battery life anywhere -- not even in the tech specs. I imagine if you crank the display up to full brightness and max out the CPU speed, this thing doesn't last long at all. I'd be interested to know how long it could last doing basic stuff -- word processing, surfing, etc. -- with the monitor dimmed down to the same level as the old PowerBook.

MacNut
Jan 10, 2006, 01:35 PM
The new books do have Sudden Motion Sensor.

OutThere
Jan 10, 2006, 01:35 PM
No mention of battery life anywhere -- not even in the tech specs. I imagine if you crank the display up to full brightness and max out the CPU speed, this thing doesn't last long at all. I'd be interested to know how long it could last doing basic stuff -- word processing, surfing, etc. -- with the monitor dimmed down to the same level as the old PowerBook.

I'll take the liberty of guessing that the new battery life is better left unsaid. :p

Lacero
Jan 10, 2006, 01:37 PM
Firewire 800 bandwidth is way more than is need for the majority of today's external devices, and for field video production use, is way more than required since acquisition codecs like DVCPROHD only goes up to 100mbits. If one piece of technology could be removed, FW 800 would be it. There's always the PC card option to add back FW 800 functionality.

Overall, a very impressive update!

Here's to the Crazy Ones http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=35452 (http://www.uriah.com/apple-qt/movies/think-different.mov)

brepublican
Jan 10, 2006, 01:42 PM
duplicate thread

*sigh*

mlrproducts
Jan 10, 2006, 01:49 PM
I want a smaller vers. Will definately wait for the 13"!

Sleix
Jan 10, 2006, 01:52 PM
What I'm curious about in this whole charade? Hmm...will it be able to dual boot a certain you know what OS now that it's here...whether it be a linux, windows system, etc...

(No flames, just that I want a system that can handle two OSs, and now that the opportunity's presented itself in a way that I can appreciate it...)

Sleix

brepublican
Jan 10, 2006, 01:53 PM
This is a sad day. :(

It means the official end of "Powerbook G5 next Tuesday" comments. :D
Yeah but it heralds the birth of "MacBook 13" next Tuesday?" threads :D

Don't fancy the name too much though

nagromme
Jan 10, 2006, 01:54 PM
As I expected, Apple is selling Intel and PowerPC models side by side.

Giving people this choice is smart: it makes it much less critical when certain apps are or are not Universal. If you need a top Velocity Engine machine right now, you can get that. If it makes sense for you to jump on Intel now, you have that choice too.

Apple did the same thing with the G5 (kept selling G4 PowerMacs) and even the G3 (kept selling G3 iMacs after the sunflower Mac was out). And they also kept selling OS 9-booting Macs after the main lineup went OS X only.

Re FW800... I have an 800 drive, but I do know that it doesn't get that much benefit from 800. It's not a RAID. Luckily my LaCie supports FW400 too!

(And maybe FW800 will come via that new ExpressCard slot?)

AUBPsych
Jan 10, 2006, 02:06 PM
I literally screamed and jumped out of my chair when he did that as the "One More Thing...". Oh my goodness, I am so excited about it! Thanks for the live coverage, MR.

What about educational discounts? Will those be available after February for the MBPs? Otherwise, I can't afford even the basic one.

Also - there shouldn't be that much of a price gap inbetween the two models. Just my opinion, though.

When May comes around, this mofo will be mine...:D

damnyooneek
Jan 10, 2006, 02:07 PM
the apple web site doesnt even mention anything about battery time. interesting.

MrSugar
Jan 10, 2006, 02:10 PM
There are three things that really bug me, the rest is brilliant.

First, no more FW800 (although the more I thought about this the less I cared, most FW800 drives support FW400 too).

Second, why no mention of battery life / usage. This is very troublesome, I wanted to know if we gained anything from this intel switch. Even a confimation of what the old PBs had would be nice.

Third, export to TV via (s-video, or something?!). Maybe this does exist but I didn't see anything on it. Exporting to TV is something I use all the time with my PB, not being able to do that would really annoy me.

Otherwise, well done apple, well, well, done.

RoboCop001
Jan 10, 2006, 02:12 PM
Is it just me, or did they downgrade the superdrive to single layer?

gormenghast
Jan 10, 2006, 02:14 PM
Awesome, I just ordered my first Mac, the MacBook Pro. The $200 educational discount is what did it for me.

mkjellman
Jan 10, 2006, 02:14 PM
its mine but seriously, i'm upset about the loss of firewire 800 and i think that the rf sensor is ugly

gormenghast
Jan 10, 2006, 02:19 PM
Awesome, I just ordered my first Mac, the MacBook Pro. The $200 educational discount is what did it for me. It's funny what Google comes up with when you search for "MacBook," Apple sure kept this under wraps.

Aaon
Jan 10, 2006, 02:19 PM
Well, I'm very excited about the macBook. It's got everything I could hope for, especially the brighter screen and Front Row. I'm going to buy one for sure, but I am deciding between the two models. The faster processor would be sweet, but really, is it worth the $500? I think for my needs the "slower" one would work out great. What do you all think? What models will you be buying, and will you be upgrading them at all?

zuggerat
Jan 10, 2006, 02:19 PM
im gonna agree with previous statements... as a college student who depends upon battery life as one of the main features in selecting a laptop... this is a little worrysome... no mention of it anywhere... it better be 4-5 hours still because the whole point of switching to intel was more power per watt... right?

sw1tcher
Jan 10, 2006, 02:25 PM
I want a smaller vers. Will definately wait for the 13"!

Was hoping for a 13.3" widescreen version too. But oh well. Maybe that will come later (WWDC?).

Edu. discount puts the 1.67GHz version @ $1799 for me (1.83GHz is $2299). So tempted. In my cart as I write. Now whether to take the plunge now or wait for a smaller 13.3" version?

I wonder how well these runs PPC apps under Rosetta compared to the G4 counterparts. Anyone?

Good to see Apple kept the same design. Should minimize Rev. A issues. Maybe a Rev. B will see a completely new design.

Apple's stock price just jumped over 4% today too.

RoboCop001
Jan 10, 2006, 02:27 PM
Is it just me, or did they downgrade the superdrive to single layer?

suntzu
Jan 10, 2006, 02:27 PM
im gonna agree with previous statements... as a college student who depends upon battery life as one of the main features in selecting a laptop... this is a little worrysome... no mention of it anywhere... it better be 4-5 hours still because the whole point of switching to intel was more power per watt... right?

Battery Results (http://www.anandtech.com/mobile/showdoc.aspx?i=2663&p=10)

These are for the Centrino Duo (Yonah). It seems it gives better battery life compared to older Centrinos. The Battery Life - Business Applications was promising offering 30 more minutes than the old model while giving 16.6% increase in performance.

Diatribe
Jan 10, 2006, 02:30 PM
Is it just me, or did they downgrade the superdrive to single layer?

No it is not just you. I don't see it either... there goes my wallet back in my pocket. :mad:

floyde
Jan 10, 2006, 02:34 PM
Anyone wants to buy a Powerbook G4!?1:o :( :mad: :eek:

Dave the Great
Jan 10, 2006, 02:35 PM
1. I would love to know what the battery life is.

2. I would love to know about the superdrive.

3. I would love to know if it can connect up to a TV.

4. I would love to know if programs that are running under rosetta are slower or faster than the current G4 PoweBooks.

5. I would love to know why they dropped the FW800.

6. I would love to know if this also includes the same screen issues (lines,D50 tint,etc.) as the current G4 Powerbooks.

7. I would love to know more about the HardDrives.

8. I would love to see the advantages/disadvantages between the 1.67 and the 1.83 - how much faster,how much more drain, how much hotter.

Any ideas?

Diatribe
Jan 10, 2006, 02:35 PM
This is BS. No mention of battery life IS worrysome say what you will. Otherwise they would have mentioned it.
But the biggest screw-up is no DL drive anymore... what's up with that? I guess I'll wait another year until all apps are universal, until Merom is out and Apple has ironed out the bugs.

mark88
Jan 10, 2006, 02:36 PM
Dunno about anyone else but I'm slightly underwhelmed.

It's dissapointing that the asthetics remain almost identical, and also the fact that there's only 1 button on the trackpad?? They release a two button mouse(a step forward) and then take a step back by only having one button on their flagship laptop.

nagromme
Jan 10, 2006, 02:36 PM
My prediction on the future Mac laptop lineup--all aluminum, all one line:

13" MacBook replacing BOTH the iBooks AND the 12" PB

(Maybe two versions: Pro and non-Pro. I'd REALLY love the full Pro features/specs, in a smaller package.)

15" MacBook Pro

17" MacBook Pro

I'm guessing it will all happen by end of March, too.

Can I make myself wait and see what options appear? Can I? :)

ITASOR
Jan 10, 2006, 02:39 PM
All I can seriously say is WOW. In a bad way.

MacBook? That sound so bad...please don't tell me MacBook Pro is the old Powerbook and iBook will be replaced with MacBook or MacBook Express. Please, please, please, please.

The iSight is nice, except for the fact that it makes the screen part on the top huge and ugly.

Battery life must have been some hot stuff with all the times they mentioned it!

I just don't know...what's the point of making only 1 model? Is that the most popular? Are they doing a trial run? Man...so much weirdness.

Love the power adapter though, they've GOTTA adapt that to the rest of the portable line if it ever comes!

autrefois
Jan 10, 2006, 02:44 PM
I'm very excited about the MacBook. Kevin Rose was right about this and everything else he predicted!

I like the built-in iSight, the price is great, it's available next month...oh and that whole 4X faster thing is nice too. :D

Not having FW 800 won't be a problem for most people. If getting everything else in meant sacrificing FW 800, then I'm all for it. Hopefully it will be possible on some future releases.

I didn't even think about battery life, and you guys are right to be worried. I hope we'll get some info on this soon.

It would be bad if having a laptop 4x as fast means the battery goes down 4x as fast... I don't think it'd be THAT bad, but if they're not bragging about battery life, it can't be as good as the Powerbooks.

But other than that, I am amazed. I never thought the "one more thing" would be PowerBooks, er I mean MacBooks. (Guess people were wrong about the whole PowerBook-doesn't-mean-PowerPC-so-the-name-isn't-going-to-change issue. Their logic was right, but I guess Apple decided it was time for a name change.)

Now someone just needs to donate the money for me t buy a MacBook!

mozmac
Jan 10, 2006, 02:45 PM
I need to questions answered:

1. Dual Layer superdrive or single layer?

2. Running Windows?

Number 2 is more essential. I am buying this laptop for my new job. I must have a windows laptop, so if I would LOVE to have both in one.

solaris
Jan 10, 2006, 02:51 PM
I wonder why Apple decided to downgrade the SuperDrive. From an 8x (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW) to a 4x (DVD±RW/CD-RW).
Half the speed and no Dual Layer! :mad:

GregA
Jan 10, 2006, 02:51 PM
This is great.

It's interesting that they've picked the iMac (which I never predicted) and Powerbook. It says either
1) The Core Duo are too expensive for the cheaper Macs (for now), OR
2) The Core Duo is too fast for the cheaper Macs - they'd outclass the iMac/PB

Atleast we know cheaper Duo chips are coming soon, so #1 should be okay. And eventually all Macs will switch so #2 won't matter.

I'm not trusting the "4x faster" statistic, though I'm sure they are atleast twice the speed. How much faster was the base level PowerMac than the old iMac G5?

I'm going to buy one for sure, but I am deciding between the two models. The faster processor would be sweet, but really, is it worth the $500?It's not just the chip speed. You also get a bigger hard disk and more RAM (which accounts for just under half the price difference if you choose smaller RAM chips). It also has double the Video-RAM and the chip speed. I think the price difference is justified, but I'm not sure if I'd need it myself.

As of now, my mother is a soon-to-be switcher (and she needs Windows so hopefully VPC or VMWare will be released soon!). I'll probably recommend the slower one (and it'll make my father less jealous as he uses his existing PowerBook)

All up great stuff. I hope it looks almost identical to the old.

Maestro64
Jan 10, 2006, 02:52 PM
if I had to venture a guess the battery life is less, in the past Intel processor even the mobile ones used more power than any PPC. I would image they had to add some extra electronics to get the intel chips to work with the rest of the system i bet the overall power consumption is more in this product.

Also they changed the power adapter, neat idea, i like it, wish i had it last year before my kid tripped over my power cord and ripped my laptop out of my hand and broke my display. This cause another problem non of the travel adapters will work with this product. Not even sure if the Igo product with the universal tips would work, have to wait an see.

Do not like the idea FW800 is gone, i aways connect my laptop to my desktop and treat it as a extrenal drive to the desktop, transferring files is so fast.

The isight does not swivel, you have to move the display to get the view right this can be a real pain.

Definitely do not like the name, Powerbook is so much better than Macbook. MacBook was orginally considered for the first laptop and was shot down becuase the name seem so obvious and really didn't say much about the product. I think Jobs killed it since it was not his idea.

Stella
Jan 10, 2006, 02:52 PM
New Mac Books don't have DL DVD.

No mention of battery life.

Overall, these are very good replacements.

I find it strange that they are still selling PPC 15" too.. the PPC 15" looks pathetic.

Truffy
Jan 10, 2006, 02:54 PM
bigger screen, thinner case......gayer name. "MacBook Pro"? How camp is that?

Me, I'm happy I've got a PowerBook. It may not be 'Pro', it may be 1.25GHz, but it's cool.

freeny
Jan 10, 2006, 02:54 PM
Very exciting. My only concern now is what apps I have that are uncompatable with rosetta.

This from the apple site;

"The Universal truth

Most of the applications that come on your Intel-based Mac are Universal applications, designed for screaming performance with the Intel Core Duo. That includes Mac OS X, iLife ’06, Safari and Mail. Most existing applications will continue to run, thanks to Rosetta. Pro applications from Apple — including Final Cut Pro, Motion, Soundtrack Pro, DVD Studio Pro, Aperture, Logic Pro, Logic Express, and Final Cut Express — are not supported by Rosetta. For these applications, you can upgrade to the Universal version for minimal cost (see “Apple Applications” to right). Third-party applications that require precision real-time playback may perform better with a Universal version. For the expected arrival dates of Universal versions of third-party applications, check with their manufacturers."

M. Malone
Jan 10, 2006, 02:55 PM
This is very exciting, I hear posts about a smaller 13 inch model on this thread, can somebody guide me to the sources? I'm one of those who believes if a laptop is bigger than 12 inches then it's not a laptop, I really wish they stick to the size of the 12inch pbook, and just keep the damn name "PowerBook", so what I wanna know is, how reliable are those sources of a 13inch widescreen, and is there a chance of them coming out with a regular 12 inch?

Thanks

generik
Jan 10, 2006, 02:55 PM
Well, I'm very excited about the macBook. It's got everything I could hope for, especially the brighter screen and Front Row. I'm going to buy one for sure, but I am deciding between the two models. The faster processor would be sweet, but really, is it worth the $500? I think for my needs the "slower" one would work out great. What do you all think? What models will you be buying, and will you be upgrading them at all?

Personally I will wait a little, I just feel a bit edgy about how it is just a single model instead of a whole line of Macbook Pros. Smells like a rush job.

Maestro64
Jan 10, 2006, 02:56 PM
If I had to venture a guess the battery life is less, in the past Intel processor even the mobile ones used more power than any PPC. I would image they had to add some extra electronics to get the intel chips to work with the rest of the system i bet the overall power consumption is more in this product.

Also they changed the power adapter, neat idea, I like it, wish I had it last year before my kid tripped over my power cord and ripped my laptop out of my hand and broke my display. This cause another problem now of the travel adapters will work with this product. Not even sure if Igo product with the universal tips would work, have to wait an see.

Do not like the idea FW800 is gone, i aways connect my laptop to my desktop and treat it as a extrenal drive to the desktop, transferring files is so fast.

The isight does not swivel, you have to move the display to get the view right this can be a real pain.

Definitely do not like the name, Powerbook is so much better than Macbook. MacBook was orginally considered for the first laptop and was shot down becuase the name seem so obvious and really didn't say much about the product. I think Jobs killed it since it was not his idea.

Peace
Jan 10, 2006, 03:01 PM
I've been informed that due to the release of the intel macs my NDA is no longer valid for my DTK..

So....


This new Macbook is gonna SCREAAAAAMMMMMM

The DTK is a Dothan P4 3.6 with onboard graphics..

It ran faster than the G4 x2 with the exception of 3D graphics..
with that x1600 and the dual core it's gonna kick ass...

I'd buy one..

d.f
Jan 10, 2006, 03:02 PM
why....?

there's nothing new. core duo, i saw at CES. even on 'budget' brands. apart from the adaptor there's no new apple signature characteristics that traditionally kept a mac laptop a head of the game. osx is still the greatest, but the macbook isn't much further ahead of the pack anymore imo.

i really thought apple would be the only company that would make the most of this 'revolutionary' chip. low heat / power consumption was going to lead to even thinner, lighter, and longer lasting 'high end' laptops. this really feels like what we would have had over a year ago had the g5 gone mobile or apple had gone dual processor on the g4.

does anyone see what i mean...? they really have just replaced the g4. i had hoped there was "all these great things we've wanted to do, but haven't been able to do with the g4/ibm g5", as steve told us. i also thought that apple would have pulled something genius out of the bag, knowing that if (or when) OSX is cracked to run on PC's, they'd need something very slick to keep people buying elsewhere. those new Core Duo Sony's are very very sharp for instance.

hopefully this is just post Macworld blues and actually playing with one in the applestore will relight my apple passion....

ps. i think the iMac is a brilliant package now. puts all it's windows competitors to shame. the perfect example of an apple product.

Melkor
Jan 10, 2006, 03:02 PM
Dang this server is busy :eek:

Looks really cool. I wouldn't risk getting a rev. A though, concidering Apples history with rev. A's.

Built in iSight and remote are nice perks. I'm also glad they didn't try changing the appearance, as I think they've pretty much perfected it.

nagromme
Jan 10, 2006, 03:04 PM
All I can seriously say is WOW. In a bad way.

MacBook? That sound so bad...
I like the old names too, and different is jarring... but the new name is also good and we'll get used to it.

Two good reasons for it:

1. Avoids confusion since G4s are still sold too, under the old names. (Which is a GOOD thing: it gives people the choice, if a G4 meets certain better in the short term.)

2. My guess: unifying the laptop line. If the future smaller "PowerBook" was going to end up similar to the future "iBook" anyway, then this makes sense.

A couple other FAQs being asked:

* Run Windows? Undoubtedly. It may be easy to install, it may need special tricks, but it will be done. Apple won't help you--but lots of online info will, shortly. Expect grisly, disturbing photos of iMacs running Windows within a week :p I for one don't want Windows making my Mac less secure (like a virus that wipes the HD?) so I'd rather buy some app--like a future VPC--that lets me run Windows in its own virtual environment, limited to its own hardfile.

* Battery life: yes, a question we'll want answered. Might be bad news--and looking at other Core Duo laptops may be a clue. But I'm not worried YET: there ARE other explanations. The simplest: Apple just doesn't have the battery tests finished. Maybe they made some little changes and can't post the old results--they need to do fresh tests. Maybe there's some complexity to be ironed out in software, about shutting down one core when on battery. Who knows.

They don't ship for a month. I bet battery life info will appear in Apple.com before then.

anikgol
Jan 10, 2006, 03:05 PM
apple just updates powerbook and imac and they did not even drop the prices!


the powerbook is veyr very expensive!!

but im most dissapointed that there is no intel ibook. id saved alot and waited for a new ibook, nothing! just an expensive powerbook!!!


very very dissapointed that apple did not release an ibook! cant believe this!

Austin.xstone
Jan 10, 2006, 03:06 PM
I was rather hoping for a iBook to be released but i guess we cant have everything - does anyone know when that may be released?

The MacBook Pro looks good but a little to far out of my price range!

GregA
Jan 10, 2006, 03:08 PM
I've been informed that due to the release of the intel macs my NDA is no longer valid for my DTK..

So.... This new Macbook is gonna SCREAAAAAMMMMMM

The DTK is a Dothan P4 3.6 with onboard graphics..

It ran faster than the G4 x2 with the exception of 3D graphics..
with that x1600 and the dual core it's gonna kick ass...Hi Peace.

I can't remember how fast the dual G4 processors were - are you saying it was faster than a dual 1.5Ghz G4? If so how much faster :)

Benchmarks will be interesting. What else can you tell us now that you couldn't before? :)

plinden
Jan 10, 2006, 03:08 PM
The DTK is a Dothan P4 3.6 with onboard graphics..

I'm going to be kind and not call bull ... rather you made a typo. The Dothan is not a P4 chip, rather is the second generation (after Banias) of the Pentium-M, and tops out at 2.26 GHz.

robotx21
Jan 10, 2006, 03:09 PM
The original 17" Powerbook G4 cost $3300! So I think the pricing is fair for a dual core processor with 3-4X speed of the previous model.

kbonnel
Jan 10, 2006, 03:14 PM
I checked out the battery for the new macbook (found the part number and did a search on it at apple.com), and it is the same one as the G4 15", so that might give some idea's as to the life of the battery. Anybody have any ideas on the power consumption of the new macbook?

Kimo

GregA
Jan 10, 2006, 03:17 PM
I was rather hoping for a iBook to be released but i guess we cant have everything - does anyone know when that may be released?I think Intel were talking about releasing lower-speed (and cheaper) "Core" chips 2-3 months after these. Perhaps then?

d.f
Jan 10, 2006, 03:24 PM
I think Intel were talking about releasing lower-speed (and cheaper) "Core" chips 2-3 months after these. Perhaps then?

great. we can wait till mid 2006, for a crippled Intel chip while the lower priced PC alternatives run on Core DUO chips. apple is fortunate for 2 reasons:

1 - mac heads have invested too much into software, compatible products to switch.

2 - windows is ****.

Stella
Jan 10, 2006, 03:29 PM
The new MacBook Pro is not expensive.. they are no more expensive than PBs 6 months ago.
- G4 processors are dirt cheap, Yonah processors are more expensive.
- x4 - 5 times the speed of G4
- far better graphics card
- digital audio out on all models
- larger display

The PowerBooks are slow and showing their age, thus apple had to drop them to CA$23K.

As for iBooks - I'm a bit disappointed, but what processor could they put in there? There are no single core Yonahs yet, only dual.





apple just updates powerbook and imac and they did not even drop the prices!



the powerbook is veyr very expensive!!

but im most dissapointed that there is no intel ibook. id saved alot and waited for a new ibook, nothing! just an expensive powerbook!!!


very very dissapointed that apple did not release an ibook! cant believe this!

sw1tcher
Jan 10, 2006, 03:34 PM
1. I would love to know what the battery life is.

2. I would love to know about the superdrive.

3. I would love to know if it can connect up to a TV.

4. I would love to know if it programs that are running under rosetta are slower or faster than the current G4 PoweBooks.

5. I would love to know why they dropped the FW800.

6. I would love to know if this also includes the same screen issues (lines,D50 tint,etc.) as the currnt G4 Powerbooks.

7. I would love to know more about the HardDrives.

8. I would love to see the advantages/disadvantages between the 1.67 and the 1.83 - how much faster,how much more drain, how much hotter.

Any ideas?

Well, you just gave me some reasons to hold off on my purchase. Until I know the answers to these questions my credit card stays in the wallet.

I want to see answers for Q's 1, 3, 4, 6, and 8.

As for Q #2:

Slot-loading SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)

* Maximum Write: 4x DVD-R, DVD+R, DVD+RW, and DVD-RW; 24x CD-R; 10x CD-RW

* Maximum Read: 8x DVD-ROM (single layer); 6x DVD (double layered), DVD-9, DVD-R, DVD+R, DVD-RW, DVD+RW; 24x CD


Looks like no Double-layer support. Bah!

leosantos
Jan 10, 2006, 03:35 PM
I thought I might be the only one, but I can see on the thread that there's a lot of disappointment. Ok, props where they're due: the speed is pretty amazing, the power adaptor thingie is pretty cool too, and buil-in iSight pretty much represents a $150 discount (granted, on something some may not invest in to begin with).

BUT...

1) Only marginal size reduction. Reeks of a rush job, as many other signs indicate. And it doesn't matter that it was small to begin with. The iPods were too, but their sizes just got slashed in the last update.

2) Loss of Firewire 800. People have been defending the loss here citing FW800 as something most people don't need. That is just bogus. New tech products are supposed to look ahead, and as FW800 gear prices fell, people would most definitely embrace it. When FW400 first came out, I bet a lot of people said they didn't really need it either. Just like most people don't really need a notebook that is 4 times faster than their current one, or a screen that's brighter. Things are supposed to get better, and in the computer world, offer of a better product plus competition eventually creates demand.

3) Single layer DVD. Next... the new MacBook Express with floppy drive!

4) Battery life. This is a HUGE one. Battery life on the PowerBooks is poor to begin with. After years of perfecting a line, they're coming back with something that may be even worse than what they have now, even on a processor that's supposed to be more economical? If they haven't mentioned it, the gain can't be more than marginal, if not a loss. I'm hoping to eat my words when the stats come in, not because that would make me defend this Frankenstein of a machine, but because it'd give better hopes to what's ahead.

5) The biggest one for me, though, and I recognize it won't be important for many people, is that THIS THING COMES IN THE SAME CASE WE'VE BEEN SEEING FOR YEARS! Someone said it'f fine because they've perfected it. You gotta be kidding me. Great, innovative while still highly functional design is probably Apple's greatest battle flag as of the last few years. It's what kicked the return of Apple with the color iMacs, it's what made the iPod the flagship it is today, and it's what keeps making every iMac cooler than the previous model, and what made the Nano a success where the Shuffle to some degree failed. Nothing is so perfect that it can't be scrapped and built again better than before. We've all come to expect that Apple will wow us with not only the best machines for our needs, but with design to leave everyone else's chins on the ground. Call it curb appeal, call it what you will. It is majorly important, and they definitely did not deliver.

Back to the drawing board, guys. Maybe that July deadline wasn't such a bad idea after all.

Austin.xstone
Jan 10, 2006, 03:36 PM
I was rather hoping for a iBook to be released but i guess we cant have everything - does anyone know when that may be released?

The MacBook Pro looks good but a little to far out of my price range!

2nyRiggz
Jan 10, 2006, 03:36 PM
yummy yummy...good stuff.....like peter griffin oh this is hot!!


Bless

Diatribe
Jan 10, 2006, 03:37 PM
Looks like no Double-layer support. Bah!

Exactly my thoughts. :mad: I guess I won't be buying one in the near future.

ICEBERG
Jan 10, 2006, 03:39 PM
This is good news from Apple Today. BUT..

Rev. A= Must wait.

All the new products i bought from apple allways turned out bad. Specially rev.1 models.

My ibooks had problems. Powerbooks had problems. I am not rushing into this new macbook yet.

Why wasn't the Battery life mentioned? This is a big info to leave out.

radian23
Jan 10, 2006, 03:40 PM
After doing some research http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/whatsinside.html i noticed that the new MacBook Pro has a lithium polymer battery unlike the current powerbooks which have a lithium ion battery. I'm not quite sure but i believe this may be the first laptop to have a lithium polymer battery.

ansalmo
Jan 10, 2006, 03:41 PM
And so did mine. And then I saw the price and it went back in again. Once again the $ to £ conversion is just rubbish for UK buyers.

Rubbish? It's INSANE :eek:

$1999 in the US, £1779 in the UK. That's over $3100 according to xe.com.

My credit card's going back to bed too, particularly with nothing smaller than a 15.4" model - that's too big for a portable IMHO. Roll on the MacBook Amateur...

GregA
Jan 10, 2006, 03:42 PM
5) The biggest one for me, though, and I recognize it won't be important for many people, is that THIS THING COMES IN THE SAME CASE WE'VE BEEN SEEING FOR YEARS! Someone said it'f fine because they've perfected it. You gotta be kidding me. Great, innovative while still highly functional design is probably Apple's greatest battle flag as of the last few years. It's what kicked the return of Apple with the color iMacs, it's what made the iPod the flagship it is today, and it's what keeps making every iMac cooler than the previous model...I don't think Apple had a choice. I mean this in the sense that if they can make these machines look almost identical, it gives some face-validity to their claims about how easy it all is and that it doesn't matter which chip it has.

The more people believe these things are almost identical, the more comfortable existing Mac users will be when switching to Intel... AND people will still be comfortable buying PowerMac G5s. I hoped Apple would do that with their initial Intel releases.

ps. I agree with your 1-4 points.

Bern
Jan 10, 2006, 03:42 PM
Looks ok I guess, but like some people have mentioned there is no way I'm getting a Rev A Mactel of any kind.

I'd like to thank all those testers out there in advance. :p

Here in Australia the top of the line model is $3999 so it's far too expensive for me to justify replacing my 12 month old 12" Powerbook.

Don't forget folks this is the Mac Book Pro so I'd hazard a guess the iBook may be replaced by the Mac Book. Perhaps that will be better than the current line of iBooks and I may consider one of those when they reach Rev C.

viggen9
Jan 10, 2006, 03:44 PM
Looks like Apple has decided to go Core Solo in the iBook. Last I heard those are supposed to be released by Intel around March? iBook is nearing the end of its upgrade cycle according to MR buyer's guide, so it makes sense that these would be upgraded to intel once the cheaper single core proc is released. Plus this distances the consumer and pro lines; in the old g4 days, the specs were painfully similar... I think we will see the iBooks (MacBooks) shipping by 1st of April with single core yonahs.

Stella
Jan 10, 2006, 03:47 PM
Wrong!
MBs start from #1429, in U$ its $1999.

The top model is #1779, where as the top model in US is $2499
Rubbish? It's INSANE :eek:

$1999 in the US, £1779 in the UK. That's over $3100 according to xe.com.

My credit card's going back to bed too, particularly with nothing smaller than a 15.4" model - that's too big for a portable IMHO. Roll on the MacBook Amateur...

DakotaGuy
Jan 10, 2006, 03:49 PM
The way Intel works this thing should see a speed bump in a month or two after it is released. Just something to keep in mind if you can hold out a little while to order.

I would say speed updates by April on this and the iMac.

BENJMNS
Jan 10, 2006, 03:50 PM
I thought I might be the only one, but I can see on the thread that there's a lot of disappointment. Ok, props where they're due: the speed is pretty amazing, the power adaptor thingie is pretty cool too, and buil-in iSight pretty much represents a $150 discount (granted, on something some may not invest in to begin with).

BUT...

1) Only marginal size reduction. Reeks of a rush job, as many other signs indicate. And it doesn't matter that it was small to begin with. The iPods were too, but their sizes just got slashed in the last update.

2) Loss of Firewire 800. People have been defending the loss here citing FW800 as something most people don't need. That is just bogus. New tech products are supposed to look ahead, and as FW800 gear prices fell, people would most definitely embrace it. When FW400 first came out, I bet a lot of people said they didn't really need it either. Just like most people don't really need a notebook that is 4 times faster than their current one, or a screen that's brighter. Things are supposed to get better, and in the computer world, offer of a better product plus competition eventually creates demand.

3) Single layer DVD. Next... the new MacBook Express with floppy drive!

4) Battery life. This is a HUGE one. Battery life on the PowerBooks is poor to begin with. After years of perfecting a line, they're coming back with something that may be even worse than what they have now, even on a processor that's supposed to be more economical? If they haven't mentioned it, the gain can't be more than marginal, if not a loss. I'm hoping to eat my words when the stats come in, not because that would make me defend this Frankenstein of a machine, but because it'd give better hopes to what's ahead.

5) The biggest one for me, though, and I recognize it won't be important for many people, is that THIS THING COMES IN THE SAME CASE WE'VE BEEN SEEING FOR YEARS! Someone said it'f fine because they've perfected it. You gotta be kidding me. Great, innovative while still highly functional design is probably Apple's greatest battle flag as of the last few years. It's what kicked the return of Apple with the color iMacs, it's what made the iPod the flagship it is today, and it's what keeps making every iMac cooler than the previous model, and what made the Nano a success where the Shuffle to some degree failed. Nothing is so perfect that it can't be scrapped and built again better than before. We've all come to expect that Apple will wow us with not only the best machines for our needs, but with design to leave everyone else's chins on the ground. Call it curb appeal, call it what you will. It is majorly important, and they definitely did not deliver.

Back to the drawing board, guys. Maybe that July deadline wasn't such a bad idea after all.

touche

dreamcast
Jan 10, 2006, 03:53 PM
Im Disappointed with the Macbook pro, and ill tell you why...

First, NO Firewire 800 port, what are they thinking??? Now instead of backing up my external harddrive, it will take 7 hours instead of 2 hours...How lame is this... first they get rid of the firewire support for the video ipods, and now with macbook pro's too???? why sell out to cater to the needs of all the windows swithcers and family's that use theyre laptops to sell junk on ebay.....pleassseeeeeee..

Second, No Dual Layer DVD burner!!!!!!!!!! Need i say more...

Third, why the lower resolution duller screen.....

Fourth, where is the slimmer, sleeker, lighter design that we all wanted....????????? This computer lacks any innovativness in design and is only a rehashed powerbook with an intel belly. STILL 5.6 pound anchor.... Look at what Sony has done with theyre lightweight laptops and get a clue....Why didn't Apple use a new design or Carbon Fiber material to make it lighter... WHY WHY WHY>?????

I have owned almost every Powerbook type that has come out except the 17 inch, and i even bought the last two revision of 2005, but NO MORE upgrading to this sell out computer for me....

aswitcher
Jan 10, 2006, 03:53 PM
Don't forget folks this is the Mac Book Pro so I'd hazard a guess the iBook may be replaced by the Mac Book. Perhaps that will be better than the current line of iBooks and I may consider one of those when they reach Rev C.


iMacbook is a strong possibility to lever off "iMac" rep... as the consumer model.

d.f
Jan 10, 2006, 03:53 PM
Looks like Apple has decided to go Core Solo in the iBook. Last I heard those are supposed to be released by Intel around March? iBook is nearing the end of its upgrade cycle according to MR buyer's guide, so it makes sense that these would be upgraded to intel once the cheaper single core proc is released. Plus this distances the consumer and pro lines; in the old g4 days, the specs were painfully similar... I think we will see the iBooks (MacBooks) shipping by 1st of April with single core yonahs.

this is what is bothering me. all the talk of the Core Duo enhancing Hi Def movies, music, front row, etc.... so iBook owners aren't going to benefit from any of this 'new tech' even intel had likened the new chip being like 2 Pentium M's in one machine. if that's the case, i'd prefer apple to just give me a well designed pentium m laptop. at least it would be cheap.

you hit the nail on the head. the iBook was a good maching compared to the top of the line powerbook.... apple has gone back to crippling thier machines to benefit thier profits and the consumer looses out.

i wish they'd just give in, make the powerbook a bit thicker (only enough) so they can give it the full 2.+ghz Intel (like all their competitors have managed) and then the ibooks could get a 1.5 or so Core Duo.

hoenstly, i love the ibook i am typing on and the software, but i really don't like this update. i thought going to Intel was also going to benefit market share and the halo effect. not likely now methinks.....

MattG
Jan 10, 2006, 03:54 PM
Wow...

Apple didn't disappoint. Good show.

(mmmmmmmmmmmm lusting after new MacBook...must...have...)

Austin.xstone
Jan 10, 2006, 03:54 PM
I was rather hoping for a iBook to be released but i guess we cant have everything - does anyone know when that may be released?

The MacBook Pro looks good but a little to far out of my price range!

leosantos
Jan 10, 2006, 03:55 PM
I don't think Apple had a choice. I mean this in the sense that if they can make these machines look almost identical, it gives some face-validity to their claims about how easy it all is and that it doesn't matter which chip it has.

The more people believe these things are almost identical, the more comfortable existing Mac users will be when switching to Intel... AND people will still be comfortable buying PowerMac G5s. I hoped Apple would do that with their initial Intel releases.

ps. I agree with your 1-4 points.



I'm not sure I agree, Greg. If the goal is to stimulate migration to Intel, I don't think the way to do it would be to make it the same, but rather to make it better. I don't think anyone has ever avoided jumping in as Apple ship for fear of new design. I think this is part of trying to get good news out before good news were actually ready, which unfortunately made good news (processor speed, software compatibility advances, iSight, etc.) lame in context. Fingers remain crossed for the real new MacBooks, whenever they may come. Hopefully this is just a good jumping board for whenever that may be. Now, let's give this a week for the dust to settle and then start that guessing game.

bennyek
Jan 10, 2006, 03:55 PM
Anyone want to buy a website?

www.macbookstuff.com:D

mr_flibble
Jan 10, 2006, 03:57 PM
It appears that FW 800 is dead, unless the PowerMacs see it, That new power cord alone is worth it.

Lets face it: Apple won't ever be the same again. Why they dropped fw800? In fact they didn't, they just have minimal influence to motherboard design now and Intel chipsets do not include fw800. Apple has no choice and they have to use what Intel offers to everyone, Intel is not gonna create special boards for Apple. Now there will be a bit problem for Apple to differentiate in the hw part of their solutions, additionaly when they will prepare 1.7GHz notebook there will be always someone with 2.0GHz one already and for less.. and here is the problem of PC customers, they are usually overestimating CPU and believe than quicklier CPU will bring them more responsive system..kinda religion. Forget special features for Mac world only, it is the past, Powerbook is dead, long life MacBook Pro (just please change that stupid name, pleaseee, Powerbook name doesn't deserve such a cruel future..), one of PC notebooks with great design and OS X!

And here we have another questions: What else Apple had to give up to get Intel to their machines? Is there still OpenFirmware or we have BIOS now? Does FireWire Target mode work? Is it possible to install Windows/x86 Linux beside OS X now? Answers, answers please!

Maestro64
Jan 10, 2006, 03:57 PM
You want to know what happen to yor DL superdrive, it got pulled due to power consumption.

Old Powerbook - 65 watt power adapter 58 watt hour battery
MacBook - 85 watt power adapter 60 watt hour battery

Boys and Girls be prepared for this thing to not live long on batteries and to heat up your lap like you have never felt before.

It looks like this thing is using about 20 watts more to run the system and charge the battery at this same time, since the battery is not that much more you can figure the addition 20 watts is going into you lap.

You ask what happen to PCMCIA slot, FW800, modem and the DL superdrive well it was all giving up up in order to give you a faster Intel Processor which you all have been screaming for.

fossicker
Jan 10, 2006, 03:58 PM
Nobody's mentioned no built in modem anymore. I understand they probably needed to save space, and it's less used these days, but it's nice to have it built in for those times when you can't get a high speed connection for some reason. the usb modem is just one more thing you have to remember to carry with you.

PtMD
Jan 10, 2006, 04:01 PM
Battery Results (http://www.anandtech.com/mobile/showdoc.aspx?i=2663&p=10)

These are for the Centrino Duo (Yonah). It seems it gives better battery life compared to older Centrinos. The Battery Life - Business Applications was promising offering 30 more minutes than the old model while giving 16.6% increase in performance.


So the ASUS laptop has a 48W battery and the MacBook has a 60W. So we can expect 25% longer battery life?

eVolcre
Jan 10, 2006, 04:02 PM
Well, I'm a little disappointed. This might seem trivial but the biggest negative is that it has the same design as the old line. I mean, this is a ground breaking shift for Apple and all they did was switch the chip out and add an iSight. No way I'm going to spend that kind of money if people don't know what I have.

And for those of you that say its all about the perforance, it's NOT> If it were you and I wouldn't be on a MAC site at all.

I was hoping for a 17" powerbook with a new design.

Any ideas on when we might see a 17" version? Since the MacBook looks the same as the PB's, would the different sizes also have to look the same?

The more I think about it, the more I think I'm going to pick up a used 17" machine to tide me over for 2 years and then when the blazing machines come out with a NEW design, I can make the jump then.

Thoughts?

Anyone have a gently used i7" PB for sale?

ev

Randall
Jan 10, 2006, 04:03 PM
Im Disappointed with the Macbook pro, and ill tell you why...

First, NO Firewire 800 port, what are they thinking??? Now instead of backing up my external harddrive, it will take 7 hours instead of 2 hours...How lame is this... first they get rid of the firewire support for the video ipods, and now with macbook pro's too???? why sell out to cater to the needs of all the windows swithcers and family's that use theyre laptops to sell junk on ebay.....pleassseeeeeee..
You do realize that they took the modem out too, and that isn't catering to the "family's that sell their junk on ebay" is it? You can use the EC slot for all the FireWire 800 you want.

Second, No Dual Layer DVD burner!!!!!!!!!! Need i say more...This, I agree with. A dissappointment, and I don't understand why it's not DL. WTF?

Third, why the lower resolution duller screen.....What? It's got the same resolution as the 15" PowerBooks and a brighter screen.

Fourth, where is the slimmer, sleeker, lighter design that we all wanted....????????? This computer lacks any innovativness in design and is only a rehashed powerbook with an intel belly. STILL 5.6 pound anchor.... Look at what Sony has done with theyre lightweight laptops and get a clue....Why didn't Apple use a new design or Carbon Fiber material to make it lighter... WHY WHY WHY>?????This is slimmer and sleaker. Carbon Fiber? You want to spend $3500 on a 15" laptop. I don't

I have owned almost every Powerbook type that has come out except the 17 inch, and i even bought the last two revision of 2005, but NO MORE upgrading to this sell out computer for me....Sorry to hear that. Apple didn't sell out to anyone. They finally come through with a POWERFUL laptop, and you sit there and complain.

joepunk
Jan 10, 2006, 04:03 PM
I like very much.

Wish it still had FW800 or at least add another USB as a replacement.

I really like the new power adapter plug-in.

sw1tcher
Jan 10, 2006, 04:04 PM
Exactly my thoughts. :mad: I guess I won't be buying one in the near future.

A refurb 15" PB is starting to look better and better.

15" PB now $1399 (was $1449)
15" PB still $1599

eVolcre
Jan 10, 2006, 04:06 PM
A refurb 15" PB is starting to look better and better.

15" PB now $1399 (was $1449)
15" PB still $1599


aCTUALLY, if I'm going to buy something as a 'placeholder' a 15" machine might be better than a 17". Heck, I might even just use my Rev A 12" OB for now. I really really wanted to buy some cool gear before the summer but I don't thin kits happening. :confused:

Alex Cutter
Jan 10, 2006, 04:07 PM
What? It's got the same resolution as the 15" PowerBooks and a brighter screen.

Um. Wrong.

Sorry to hear that. Apple didn't sell out to anyone. They finally come through with a POWERFUL laptop, and you sit there and complain.:rolleyes:

denial
Jan 10, 2006, 04:07 PM
£1429 for the "basic" model. That is a very hefty price for a 15" widescreen laptop with some nice bells and whistles. As much as I like the look of it it is just too much of a price differential over either a "normal" Powerbook or even a nice spec Sony with extras.

I'll pass on it for now and await further portable products. Now the imac is a different matter. Very nice indeed with a small £30 price rise in the UK for the entry level model.

speedemonV12
Jan 10, 2006, 04:08 PM
i know that no real mac owner cares, but for some of us that are makin a switch, will the new mac book pro's be able to run windows?

eVolcre
Jan 10, 2006, 04:09 PM
The picture on Apple.com looks like gunmetal grey and not silver. Just lighting?

Randall
Jan 10, 2006, 04:12 PM
Um. Wrong.

:rolleyes:

MacBook Pro
15.4 inches (diagonal) 1440 by 900 digital display.

PowerBook G4 15"
15.2 inches (diagonal) 1440 by 960 digital display.

Sorry. I wonder why the 60 pixels are gone?

MacNut
Jan 10, 2006, 04:14 PM
Don't expect to see the PowerBook line die just yet as they still haven't updated the 12 or 17 inch. I suspect you might see another PowerBook update before the line dies. As for FW800 Apple won't support something the industry is not catching on to. Apple was hoping for industry acceptance and it never happened.

ansalmo
Jan 10, 2006, 04:15 PM
Wrong!
MBs start from #1429, in U$ its $1999.

The top model is #1779, where as the top model in US is $2499

Interesting - the graphic at www.apple.com/uk changed over the past hour from stating "from £1779" to "from £1429". Must have had some irate Brits deluging their switchboards.... :D

On the new iBook having the Core Solo, that would be extremely disappointing given the minimal price difference between the Solo and Duo lines, but makes sense from a marketing point of view. Curse those evil marketdroids.

dejo
Jan 10, 2006, 04:16 PM
MacBook Pro
15.4 inches (diagonal) 1440 by 900 digital display.

PowerBook G4 15"
15.2 inches (diagonal) 1440 by 960 digital display.

Sorry. I wonder why the 60 pixels are gone?

But, still, 67% brighter than then 15-inch PowerBook G4.

http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/graphics.html

Maestro64
Jan 10, 2006, 04:17 PM
Lets face it: Apple won't ever be the same again. Why they dropped fw800? In fact they didn't, they just have minimal influence to motherboard design now and Intel chipsets do not include fw800. Apple has no choice and they have to use what Intel offers to everyone, Intel is not gonna create special boards for Apple. Now there will be a bit problem for Apple to differentiate in the hw part of their solutions, additionaly when they will prepare 1.7GHz notebook there will be always someone with 2.0GHz one already and for less.. and here is the problem of PC customers, they are usually overestimating CPU and believe than quicklier CPU will bring them more responsive system..kinda religion. Forget special features for Mac world only, it is the past, Powerbook is dead, long life MacBook Pro (just please change that stupid name, pleaseee, Powerbook name doesn't deserve such a cruel future..), one of PC notebooks with great design and OS X
I do not believe it is an Intel board inside the system, plus apple used thier own chip set and controllers around the processor. Apple is only buying the processor not all the bus controls and such since many other mac features would not work. Like I said above, we lost the features due to power not because on the intel chip set like you think.

mark88
Jan 10, 2006, 04:17 PM
So, does anyone know why they didn't add a two button trackpad????

Alex Cutter
Jan 10, 2006, 04:18 PM
MacBook ProSorry. I wonder why the 60 pixels are gone?
The camera probably took them.

thequicksilver
Jan 10, 2006, 04:18 PM
Rubbish? It's INSANE :eek:

$1999 in the US, £1779 in the UK. That's over $3100 according to xe.com.

My credit card's going back to bed too, particularly with nothing smaller than a 15.4" model - that's too big for a portable IMHO. Roll on the MacBook Amateur...

Compare like for like. The $1999 US model is £1429, which translates to $2520.68. Seems ridiculous. Then consider that the US price is without sales tax, so let's remove our equivalent, the whopping 17.5% VAT.

Then we have £1216.17, or $2145.24. It's about $150 over the top, more than I'd like but it's been worse in the past.

If you want to blame anyone for the huge difference in price, blame Gordon Brown…

speedemonV12
Jan 10, 2006, 04:19 PM
so will it be able to run windows or not?

Maestro64
Jan 10, 2006, 04:19 PM
MacBook Pro
15.4 inches (diagonal) 1440 by 900 digital display.

PowerBook G4 15"
15.2 inches (diagonal) 1440 by 960 digital display.

Sorry. I wonder why the 60 pixels are gone?
its call the isight...

Randall
Jan 10, 2006, 04:20 PM
so will it be able to run windows or not?With a little hacking around, I guarantee it. :cool:

omahajim
Jan 10, 2006, 04:20 PM
The MacBook Pro pages mention that the included iSight camera is higher resolution (higher than 640x480 I presume) but I can't find the real numbers at the moment.

I just don't think having the iSight "built in" on a laptop is all that great an idea (the iMac, sure, no problem). They mention all these new creative possibilities for citizen journalism and backstage chicanery etc with the iSight. But with the darn thing stuck on the lid, only facing you, you can't use it for event coverage or other situations where you want to have it pointed somewhere ELSE besides your mug, without turning the whole 'book around and therefore not able to see what you're doing.

I still prefer a separate camera with a mount that be turned around or hand-held depending on the application. But that's just me.

Randall
Jan 10, 2006, 04:21 PM
The camera probably took them.
I wonder if there will be a future option to ditch the camera. some work places won't allow them anyway. I want my higher screen res.

clayj
Jan 10, 2006, 04:21 PM
With a little hacking around, I guarantee it. :cool:Yeah, as soon as I get mine, I'll show ya what it looks like with Windows Vista running on it. :p

kasei
Jan 10, 2006, 04:21 PM
Awesome! I will wait for the 17" model to appear. I'm sure it is going to cost an arm and a leg...

Alex Cutter
Jan 10, 2006, 04:24 PM
The MacBook Pro pages mention that the included iSight camera is higher resolution (higher than 640x480 I presume) but I can't find the real numbers at the moment.

I just don't think having the iSight "built in" on a laptop is all that great an idea (the iMac, sure, no problem). They mention all these new creative possibilities for citizen journalism and backstage chicanery etc with the iSight. But with the darn thing stuck on the lid, only facing you, you can't use it for event coverage or other situations where you want to have it pointed somewhere ELSE besides your mug, without turning the whole 'book around and therefore not able to see what you're doing.

I still prefer a separate camera with a mount that be turned around or hand-held depending on the application. But that's just me.
Or, its primary purpose is intended to be video conferencing.

TheMasin9
Jan 10, 2006, 04:24 PM
some features are missing that i really like,
fw 800, some type of video out besides dvi, pci slot (what the hecks is expresscard anyway), modem(kidding). I think it s a brilliant design, i also want to know what kind of battery we are getting. i remember seeing an acer with a similar proc getting 6 hr battery i hope the mac book can claim the same. Im excited for my bro to get one for his art school. I will wait on the first gen intel powermacs, assuming they rock the socks off of the g5.

dreamcast
Jan 10, 2006, 04:24 PM
no firewire 800 support means my backups take a century instead of a week....i regularly back up my music collection which is over 300 gb..

Diatribe
Jan 10, 2006, 04:25 PM
A refurb 15" PB is starting to look better and better.

15" PB now $1399 (was $1449)
15" PB still $1599

Yeah, I am definitely going to wait until next year same time when I can get my Macbook preloaded with Leopard and iLife '07, a 160GB HD, a Merom proc, a Blu-Ray burner, etc.....

What's up with the drive in general? 4x burner? What happend to the 8x burner?:confused:

BlueRevolution
Jan 10, 2006, 04:27 PM
first, I hate to say I told you so, but...

The Good
x1600 graphics! I wasn't expecting it to get that good.
didn't get more expensive.
tons faster of course... 4x is a stretch, but indisputably faster.
that power adapter. damn cool.
Front Row. sweet.

The Expected
no modem.
thinner. not as thin as I had in mind, but still... the 1" form factor of the 17" PB is very impressive.
it's out of my price range.

The Bad
the name. come on, what has Steve been smoking? I thought it was just a dorky idea some rumourmonger came up with.
battery life? just tell me. until I have an official number, this is the dealbreaker for me
missing FW800. I've never used the port on my G5, but it's still there. well, at least it has an expansion slot.

SiliconAddict
Jan 10, 2006, 04:27 PM
Teehee. Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet?...... :D :D :D :D :D ^100

dreamcast
Jan 10, 2006, 04:30 PM
No dual layer burner support means i can't make perfect full length movies, and instead make only single layered artifact compressed movies :(

Staffroomer
Jan 10, 2006, 04:31 PM
Ahhh, too expensive for me..:eek:

I'm going to buy an iBook instead.. :(

kenstee
Jan 10, 2006, 04:32 PM
Looks like they rushed this one out the door for stock-valuation and PR value. I think the "real thing" Intel-wise may still be 8 to 12 months away. My issues......


Weight. I thought part of the reason for the switch was to make sleeker and lighter portables. Instead we get something substantially heavier than the current 15". Gotta admit I'm blown away by this. No thanks.

Battery Life. And while we're at it wasn't this switch also about better battery life? Anybody notice they don't mention battery life at all? Not good.

Loss of 800mb FW. Not a major point for me personally. To be honest, I think Apple will cease to offer ALL FW shortly. Am I the only one to notice that the current crop of iPods didn't ship with a FW connector? The handwriting is on the wall. USB2 will replace FW on all Macs in a very short time.

Loss of modem is a bummer. I like to use programs that automatically dial the number. And I like the flexability if I'm on the road and there is no broadband.

Form factor. Still the same old same old. B-O-R-I-N-G. And that AL sure conducts heat.


So, I'm not even tempted with this one. But, I sure am looking forward to MWSF 2007. I think they'll really have their act together by then. Personally, what will come down the road will be very different that what we saw today.

PtMD
Jan 10, 2006, 04:32 PM
MacBook Pro
15.4 inches (diagonal) 1440 by 900 digital display.

PowerBook G4 15"
15.2 inches (diagonal) 1440 by 960 digital display.

Sorry. I wonder why the 60 pixels are gone?

1440 by 900 = 1.6 aspect ratio as apposed to 1.5, maybe to be closer to HD aspect (16:9 or 1.7 r7) ? :confused:

bdkennedy1
Jan 10, 2006, 04:33 PM
I can't believe they didn't name it the iMacBook Pro. Where's the i?

Alex Cutter
Jan 10, 2006, 04:34 PM
I was surprised that there was no mention of Adobe's progress towards "universalization" of their software.

SiliconAddict
Jan 10, 2006, 04:34 PM
I can't believe they didn't name it the iMacBook Pro. Where's the i?


Dead...thank god.

PS- I want to think MacRumor's discussion board server for giving its life so that we might bask in the warm glowing warming glow of MWSF. :D

MrSugar
Jan 10, 2006, 04:35 PM
Um. Wrong.

:rolleyes:

Sorry to say it but you are wrong, not him. The new display is "as bright as the Cinema's" and it only loses 60px of lenthwise resolution. It's a brand new display (15.4) therefore this display should crush anything we have seen on powerbooks before.

Lacero
Jan 10, 2006, 04:35 PM
Actually, I love the name. MacBook. Easy for people new to Macs. PowerBook sounds a bit intimidating. So the MacBook Pro = PowerBook and the anticipated MacBook will be the iBook. Easy. I'll wait for a MacBook Extreme. :D

Here's to the Crazy Ones http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=35452 (http://www.uriah.com/apple-qt/movies/think-different.mov)

SeaFox
Jan 10, 2006, 04:35 PM
I'm very excited about the MacBook. Kevin Rose was right about this and everything else he predicted!

Kevin Rose didn't "predict" crap. He had some buddy at Apple tell him about things. Big clues are the fact he got everything right (iPod remote w/ FM tuner? How could he predict a product NOBODY was talking about at all? Too precise a prediction to not be spoon fed.)

The other clue is that he didn't give this information out sooner. I mean he waits till it's so close to the keynote it doesn't matter anymore... becuase his source didn't tell him until it didn't matter anymore.

If Kevin had made these predictions a month ago. He'd have Apple legal serving sopenas to find out who his source is. They waited till now because there's less chance of any trouble for the employee.

2nyRiggz
Jan 10, 2006, 04:36 PM
MacBook Pro....a mouthfull but whatever im happy its hear MBP!


Bless

nostrum
Jan 10, 2006, 04:37 PM
MacBook, what an absolutely awful name. It just doesn't trip off your tongue like Powerbook or iBook.

I can almost hear people asking me if I want fries with it.:(

wilburpan
Jan 10, 2006, 04:37 PM
I know this is early, but I was interested in how the new MacBook would stack up against a Windows notebook in terms of value for your money. The closest available notebook I could find is the recently announced Acer TravelMate 8200 (http://news.designtechnica.com/article9232.html). Keep in mind that the pricing is preliminary.

So here we go:

Acer TravelMate 8200
Price: Starting at $1999
CPU: Intel Core Duo 2.0GHz processor (Intel Yonah processor)
Memory: 1 GB (expandable up to 2GB RAM) 533/677
Screen: 15.4" WXGA (1680x1050 pixel resolution)
HD: Seagate 120GB 5400rpm SATA Hard Drive
Video card: ATI Radeon X1600 256MB (256 dedicated while 256MB can be borrowed from main memory)
Optical drive: DVD-Super Multi Double Layer
Camera: Built-in 1.3 Mega pixel camera, with 225-degree swivel ability
Wireless: Intel Pro wireless 3945 a/b/g
Other: Built-in VOIP capability
Ports: 5-in-1 card reader, a connector to Acer ezDock, Acer's PCI-Express based port replicator, an ExpressCard slot, a PC Card slot, 4 USB 2.0 ports, DVI-D port, SmartCard slot, IEEE 1394 port; External Display (VGA) port, Fast Infrared port; S-video/TV-out port, Headphones/speaker/line-out port with S/PDIF support, Microphone/line-in jack, Ethernet (RJ-45) port; Modem (RJ-11) port
Weight: 6.6lbs
Bling: Carbon Fiber finish lid

So stacking this up against the $1999 MacBook, the Acer comes out ahead in terms of processor speed (2.0 vs. 1.67 GHz), RAM (1 GB vs. 512 MB), hard drive space (120 vs. 80 GB), video card memory (256 vs. 128 MB), wireless capability (802.11a availability). The Acer has 2 more USB 2.0 ports, a 5-in-1 card reader, a few more TV-out options, and a few more notebook card options. A modem is a $50 add on item for the MacBook. The Acer has a higher resolution screen, but it loses on weight (6.6 vs. 5.6 lbs.).

If we take the higher end MacBook, and try to even the specs, you can get equivalent RAM, video card RAM, and HD space, and be a little closer to equivalent processor speed through Apple for $2599. Or you could get the $1999 MacBook, go to your favorite computer parts store and pick up an extra 512MB RAM stick and a 120 GB notebook drive for about $350, in which case you are still a little short in the CPU and video RAM areas.

So which gives you more value for your money? I would still vote for the 15" MacBook. Why? Because the MacBook runs OS X instead of crappy Windows, and is lighter, which is important for those of us who actually travel with a notebook.

As far as battery life goes, Anandtech (http://anandtech.com/mobile/showdoc.aspx?i=2663) recently benchmarked an ASUS Core Duo notebook, and found that battery life was pretty good. I won't repeat all of their findings, but office/productivity tests gave a battery life of about 230 minutes, while DVD playing gave a battery life of 192 minutes. Now this notebook has a 12.1" screen, so there's a good chance that the 15" MacBook will probably not be as good in the battery life area. On the other hand, the Acer TravelMate 8200 claims a battery life of 3.5 hours, so I guess we'll just have to see what happens.

It will be interesting to see what happens on the desktop side. No Core Duo desktop other than the new iMac has been announced so far. The closest would be the few Pentium M based desktops, but they seem to carry a price premium compared to other Intel based desktops. And Pentium D desktops have not been out for that long.

Based on the (admittedly very few) current Core Duo notebook offerings out there so far, I think the best product that will come out of the migration to Intel will be the MacBook that replaces the current 12" PowerBook. The ASUS COre Duo mentioned above has a 12" screen, but the current crop of Sony notebooks include a model with a 13.3" widescreen display, which is the screen I would like to see.

backdraft
Jan 10, 2006, 04:38 PM
Doesn't seem very impressive you would think the intel core duo would smoke the G4 with its specs but, it doesn't. Not impressive at all.

BlueRevolution
Jan 10, 2006, 04:38 PM
Weight. I thought part of the reason for the switch was to make sleeker and lighter portables. Instead we get something substantially heavier than the current 15". Gotta admit I'm blown away by this. No thanks.

it's the same weight as the old 15".

Loss of 800mb FW. Not a major point for me personally. To be honest, I think Apple will cease to offer ALL FW shortly. Am I the only one to notice that the current crop of iPods didn't ship with a FW connector? The handwriting is on the wall. USB2 will replace FW on all Macs in a very short time.

don't count on it. if the loss is because of Intel, remember a lot of PCs have FW400 now.

Loss of modem is a bummer. I like to use programs that automatically dial the number. And I like the flexability if I'm on the road and there is no broadband.

so take a modem with you. there's just not much point in having them built in these days. Apple's modem is hardly bulky.

Form factor. Still the same old same old. B-O-R-I-N-G. And that AL sure conducts heat.

I think conducting heat is the point :p

Maestro64
Jan 10, 2006, 04:38 PM
battery life? just tell me. until I have an official number, this is the dealbreaker for me

Here is an estimate based on the fact the power adapter power went up to 85 watts from 65. They would not increase the power adapter power unless they had to accommondate a bigger battery and charging it or the system under normal and worse case conditions demand this kind of power. Well the battery did not get much larger so it must be the system using it. With that said here is my estimate on what we can expect.

A 30% decrease in normal/worse case usage time. The current PB at best case is about 5.5 hours so figure this thing will be about 3.8 hours, or typically around 2.5 to 3 hours since I get about 4 to 4.5 with my PB.

GregA
Jan 10, 2006, 04:39 PM
great. we can wait till mid 2006, for a crippled Intel chip while the lower priced PC alternatives run on Core DUO chips. I've been trying to find out competitor pricing for Core Duo systems... no luck yet.

Anyone have links to similar machines from competitors?

I know of the Sony Vaio FE series which will be released later this month which looks comparable, but I don't have much details.
http://products.sony.co.uk/vaio_fe_series.asp

thequicksilver
Jan 10, 2006, 04:39 PM
After my post on the UK pricepoint vs the US one, here's my thoughts: I'm underwhelmed.

We all knew that as soon as Apple released an Intel powered 'Book that it was going to be an order of magnitude faster than the G4s, which were so long in the tooth it was untrue. Intel have delivered, and Mac users finally have a true professional notebook to lust over.

The name is… meh, it'll grow on me I'm sure.

But then again, what else has changed? Not really that much.

• Front Row on a laptop absolutely is not a serious selling point - who in their right mind is going to use it seriously? Jobs' rationale for Front Row on the iMac was that you'd sit on the other side of the room and watch a DVD/listen to music. With a desktop, fine, understandable. But a notebook? A notebook is portable. And even if you are going to sit down and use Front Row on it on the other side of the room, a 15" widescreen isn't exactly perfect.
• Built in iSight - yeah, very nice, but I'd rather remove the cost of the camera from the default sticker price and have it as an optional extra. Some of us don't use iChat because outside of the US AIM is very much a minority protocol, and finding a Mac user who uses iChat is even more difficult.
• Design - the same. It's nice, it's sleek, and it's three years old.
• I can't help but notice that the 12" and 17" Powerbooks haven't been replaced…
• New power adapter is a brilliant invention, it will perform its task admirably.
• Here's a professional notebook that in Jobs' own words "doesn't currently run Photoshop well enough for someone who uses it for hours and hours a day". Great advertising Steve. Who uses Photoshop? Much of the MacBook Duo's key market - creative professionals. I remember Jobs saying back in 1997 at the infamous Boston keynote where he announced the big shake-up of Apple's board "When was the last time we spoke to Adobe and asked them what we could do to build better computers to run Photoshop better? Wouldn't that benefit us both?" Approaching nine years on, this still rings true. Getting a pledge from Adobe that they would have a Photoshop universal binary out by a certain date would pacify users, but until then, this non-Photoshop loving professional notebook rings a little hollow. Many people say that without MS Office, Apple would be in trouble, and the same rings very true with Photoshop IMHO.
• The pricing. So much for the "Intel will bring lower prices" rumours then.

I love the new iMac, it's actually perfect, but the MacBook Duo… let's just say I wouldn't buy one if I had the money.

grahamtriggs
Jan 10, 2006, 04:42 PM
Let's compare 2 $2,499 laptops shall we:

Apple MacBook:
CPU: Intel Core Duo 1.83Ghz
RAM: 1GB
HDD: 100GB 5400-rpm Serial ATA
DVD: Single-Layer RW
Graphics: ATI's X1600 256MB Radeon
Screen: 15.4" (1440x900)
WiFi: b/g
Weight: 5.6lbs
Battery life: ???
Casing: aluminium

Acer TravelMate 8200
CPU: Intel Core Duo 2Ghz
RAM: 2GB
HDD: Seagate 120GB 5400rpm SATA
DVD: Dual-Layer RW
Graphics: ATI's X1600 512MB Radeon
Screen: 15.4" (1366x768?)
WiFi: a/b/g
Weight: 6.6lbs
Battery Life: 6 hours (87W 7800mAH)
Casing: Carbon Fibre


To bump the memory and HDD to match that of the Acer adds $400 - and you still have got as much processing power, graphics memory, dual layer or battery life.

That's quite a premium to run Apple OS / software. No doubt about the quality of Apple, but they can't hide behind platform differences anymore - and they aren't really offering enough flexibility, and bang for the buck.

Alex Cutter
Jan 10, 2006, 04:42 PM
Sorry to say it but you are wrong, not him. The new display is "as bright as the Cinema's" and it only loses 60px of lenthwise resolution. It's a brand new display (15.4) therefore this display should crush anything we have seen on powerbooks before.
Hey Einstein, read the original post.

He claimed that there were the same amount of pixels.:rolleyes:

Krevnik
Jan 10, 2006, 04:43 PM
First, NO Firewire 800 port, what are they thinking??? Now instead of backing up my external harddrive, it will take 7 hours instead of 2 hours...How lame is this... first they get rid of the firewire support for the video ipods, and now with macbook pro's too???? why sell out to cater to the needs of all the windows swithcers and family's that use theyre laptops to sell junk on ebay.....pleassseeeeeee..

<snip>

Third, why the lower resolution duller screen.....


I won't argue with the other points, because they are pretty valid.

Still, I have one question: What are you backing up to where Firewire 800 is more than 3 times faster than Firewire 400?

As for the screen, it is a little lower resolution, but duller? The horn being tooted about the screen is that it is brighter...

Isidore
Jan 10, 2006, 04:44 PM
No fw 800, no thanks. I keep my home folder on an external fw 800 drive and no fw 800 wrecks the way I work. No mention of target disk mode is also very worrying. As for no dual layer drive, no doubt they were waiting for blu-ray and it didn't arrive in time. The whole thing looks like an engineering proof of concept lash up which ended up going into production. The one thing that is really great is the power supply- we've had two powerbooks wrecked by people with big feet tripping over the cable. Just as well because this one looks as if it will need to be tied to the wall full time. My G4 isn't heading for ebay any time soon.

SeaFox
Jan 10, 2006, 04:44 PM
But, still, 67% brighter than then 15-inch PowerBook G4.

http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/graphics.html

So in other words, they got a 15" verison of the 17" screen they started using in the 17" Powerbook after last update. ;) Didn't the phrase "67% brighter" ring any bells when you heard it during the keynote?

SiliconAddict
Jan 10, 2006, 04:45 PM
Doesn't seem very impressive you would think the intel core duo would smoke the G4 with its specs but, it doesn't. Not impressive at all.


Umm it DOES smoke the G4. In a fantastic manner.

DinoMac
Jan 10, 2006, 04:45 PM
I have to say looking at the specs of the new macbook pro, that I don't regret recently buying a new 1.67 Powerbook 17".

macidiot
Jan 10, 2006, 04:46 PM
ugh ugh ugh. What a dilemma. I am so ready to buy a Powerbook, er MacBook :rolleyes: But it looks like this new laptop is just a placeholder. Looks like the next rev will be the breakout intel macs. Not that this laptop is bad. I guess I just expected a little more. Seems that the 1.83 should be about 2200, not 2500. And really, what is the speed of graphics card?? Does anyone know how it stacks up?

Nice things... optical out AND in. Required if you want hdtv/dvr functionality. Overall speed rocks. Built in isight. Dual dvi.

I have to say that the new iMac seems more compelling. Sounds like its faster than a g5 tower. In fact, I might have to get one of those as my placeholder until the next rev of macbooks. 1300 for an interim computer isn't all that bad a proposition. I just need to know how these ati gpu's perform... and its stupid that there isn't an optical in for the iMac.

Decisions decisions...

Platform
Jan 10, 2006, 04:47 PM
And we are there PB's with more than a 16Mhz increase :eek: ;)

Plymouthbreezer
Jan 10, 2006, 04:47 PM
Alright. Not too happy with this all, after looking it over.

At first (at school) when checking the live feed and some quick specs, I was excited, then I saw it's $2,000. I was planning on ordering an Intel based Mac laptop today, but I just can't afford $2,000 (nor justify) on THIS machine.

Yes, it's definitely has some cool features, but not enough for me to leap for yet, especially considering a PowerBook G4 15" is $400 less, and has DL support, FW800, and proven PPC Technology. I wanted a cool Intel 'Book, but not for this price, I just can't justify it.

That said, I'm not angry. I can wait a few more months for the consumer iBook line with Intel chips.

On the other hand, if I wasn't looking at getting a laptop soon, the Intel iMac looks awesome for the price. The iMac G5 was nice, and the Intel chips make an awesome desktop even sweeter. I'm almost tempted to pick one up to replace my near three year old G4 (which works perfectly fine), as with the edu discount and and 1GB RAM, it's about $1,400 - very reasonable.

Krevnik
Jan 10, 2006, 04:48 PM
• Front Row on a laptop absolutely is not a serious selling point - who in their right mind is going to use it seriously? Jobs' rationale for Front Row on the iMac was that you'd sit on the other side of the room and watch a DVD/listen to music. With a desktop, fine, understandable. But a notebook? A notebook is portable. And even if you are going to sit down and use Front Row on it on the other side of the room, a 15" widescreen isn't exactly perfect.

This is the only point I will make a comment on, as the rest is pretty good:

Think DVI -> HDTV + Frontrow at 720/1080p. Not a huge seller, I know, but hey, at least the remote can be used for presentations. ;)

Hattig
Jan 10, 2006, 04:48 PM
I'm in mixed thoughts.

The iMac looks like a steal. "2x" the performance for the same price.

No-one else will have an integrated Yonah (or otherwise) system available. So Apple win here by default.

However it must REALLY suck if you bought one of the recently updated iMacs... 3 more months!

The MacBook ...

I dunno. Performance wise it is obviously good, but the loss of Firewire800 must surely be an issue for many people.

However it has ExpressCard/34 (whatever the /34 means, I think it means 'double-wide' - 2 single-wide cards or 1 double-wide can be accomodated) which will allow those that need FW800 to buy an adaptor for something which, upon reflection, isn't needed by a majority of the market. Still, I expect the 17" to have it.

And where are the other screen sizes?

bigjohn
Jan 10, 2006, 04:49 PM
No dual-layer? Come on, in 6 mos everyone will be burning DL.

No new iPod shuffle announcement, but we now know what happened to the cases - they became remotes!

InsiderTravels
Jan 10, 2006, 04:51 PM
Front Row on a laptop absolutely is not a serious selling point - who in their right mind is going to use it seriously? Jobs' rationale for Front Row on the iMac was that you'd sit on the other side of the room and watch a DVD/listen to music. With a desktop, fine, understandable. But a notebook? A notebook is portable. And even if you are going to sit down and use Front Row on it on the other side of the room, a 15" widescreen isn't exactly perfect.


Umm, there are a multitude of uses for Front Row on a laptop. The most intriguing that comes to mind is for giving presentations. I remember having to give presentations in grad school with my laptop attached to the projector. Every time I wanted to change to the next slide, I had to walk over to the machine and press the space bar to advance. And with iLife '06 and iWork '06 having new capabilities in Keynote and other apps for further integration of all your multimedia projects, there's no reason you couldn't export a presentation as individual slides and/or as Quicktime. This would make it perfect for Front Row with the new remote control.

I realize there have always been RF remote controls that would work with your 'book, but this just takes it a step further. Plus, what about those who attach their 'books to a large external cinema display? I'm sure they'll get great use out of Front Row.

Edit: fixed a typo

Also: I absolutely LOVE the idea of having an iSight built into the laptop. But now knowing that I can't get a DL burner with it, I'll probably wait. Perhaps for Blue-Ray?

nsjoker
Jan 10, 2006, 04:53 PM
why is everybody so impressed?? they should've gone with 1.8 and 2.0 Ghz :/
it's just another laptop that runs Mac OS. Nothing new or innovative in the entire keynote. Even the casing is the same and there was no price drop in the line... and also only 15.4". While a good screen size, leaving out the 12" will piss a lot of people off. i dunno, i guess i just wanted a badass core duo ibook for $999 and i don't think i'm alone on this one. :cool:

macidiot
Jan 10, 2006, 04:54 PM
Doesn't seem very impressive you would think the intel core duo would smoke the G4 with its specs but, it doesn't. Not impressive at all.

Huh? 4x faster isn't impressive?

DakotaGuy
Jan 10, 2006, 04:54 PM
I was just over at Acer's website and I see they have introduced a new 4200 model with a 2.16Ghz Core Duo processor. Looks like Apple is going to have to get a speed bump into these things fast if they are going to compete in the Intel world. The race is on and now you don't want to be caught behind because people will wonder why yours is running slower then the same processor in a competitive laptop.

Diatribe
Jan 10, 2006, 04:54 PM
Let's compare 2 $2,499 laptops shall we:

Apple MacBook:
CPU: Intel Core Duo 1.83Ghz
RAM: 1GB
HDD: 100GB 5400-rpm Serial ATA
DVD: Single-Layer RW
Graphics: ATI's X1600 256MB Radeon
Screen: 15.4" (1440x900)
WiFi: b/g
Weight: 5.6lbs
Battery life: ???
Casing: aluminium

Acer TravelMate 8200
CPU: Intel Core Duo 2Ghz
RAM: 2GB
HDD: Seagate 120GB 5400rpm SATA
DVD: Dual-Layer RW
Graphics: ATI's X1600 512MB Radeon
Screen: 15.4" (1366x768?)
WiFi: a/b/g
Weight: 6.6lbs
Battery Life: 6 hours (87W 7800mAH)
Casing: Carbon Fibre


To bump the memory and HDD to match that of the Acer adds $400 - and you still have got as much processing power, graphics memory, dual layer or battery life.

That's quite a premium to run Apple OS / software. No doubt about the quality of Apple, but they can't hide behind platform differences anymore - and they aren't really offering enough flexibility, and bang for the buck.


That basically shows that Apple is waaay overpriced.

autrefois
Jan 10, 2006, 04:55 PM
Kevin Rose didn't "predict" crap. He had some buddy at Apple tell him about things. Big clues are the fact he got everything right (iPod remote w/ FM tuner? How could he predict a product NOBODY was talking about at all? Too precise a prediction to not be spoon fed.)

I agree that "predict" was the wrong word. He had a better source than everyone else did.

The other clue is that he didn't give this information out sooner. I mean he waits till it's so close to the keynote it doesn't matter anymore... becuase his source didn't tell him until it didn't matter anymore.

So exactly how long before a keynote does information have to be released for it to "matter"? It sure got some attention on here and on spymac and I'm sure elsewhere.

If Kevin had made these predictions a month ago. He'd have Apple legal serving sopenas to find out who his source is. They waited till now because there's less chance of any trouble for the employee.

[He might still be sued.] Obviously someone fed him protected info he shouldn't have had. I don't know if he or his source sat on the information to try to avoid legal troubles. The only point I was trying to make was he was the only one who reported what would be announced before it was. He got an inside source who told him what would be announced. Although the info only came out very late, I think Kevin Rose was this year's ThinkSecret. Whether that's good or not is debatable. :D

[EDIT: I misread the part about whether or not the poster thought Kevin Rose would get sued.]

Dr. J
Jan 10, 2006, 04:56 PM
I called Apple to order a Pro a few minutes ago. They told me that the super drive is single layered, and that the battery life is supposed to be 5.5. I wonder why they did not place this info on the web site.

horace
Jan 10, 2006, 04:56 PM
So, does anyone know why they didn't add a two button trackpad????

If you have a slightly older (i.e. now obsolete ;-) ) powerbook like mine, you can get a utility called iScroll2 to make your trackpad into a scrolling one. Now for the cool part - if you hold both fingers on the pad when you click the button.................right click.

Genius

No idea if this works with the *genuine* scrolling trackpad

digitalbiker
Jan 10, 2006, 04:56 PM
I have to say looking at the specs of the new macbook pro, that I don't regret recently buying a new 1.67 Powerbook 17".

I agree.

No built in modem
An 85 Watt powerbrick supply
No svideo connector
No TV out
No FW 800
Single layer instead of dual layer DVD support
Apple pro apps aren't even universal binary yet, plus Apple is going to charge pro users an upgrade fee for pro apps even though they are just conversions to x86
.
4X faster is completely hyped. In the performance tests which I am sure Apple is trying to emphasize graphics speed only one app performed at the 4X faster rank. Most are in the 1.5-1.7x faster range.
Rosetta won't even run FCP, and other Apple Pro apps.

How sad! :(

I'll wait for rev B or C with Merom and more apps available.

My PPC looks pretty good right now.:D

Maestro64
Jan 10, 2006, 04:56 PM
No new iPod shuffle announcement, but we now know what happened to the cases - they became remotes!

I think they stop shipping the shuffle last month to save flash memory for the Nanos. Last quarter there was an industry wide shortage of NAND Flash so, apple must have saved what they had to put in the higher profit Nanos.

Everyone thought when the shuffle was not longer available online it was going to be replaced.

Lacero
Jan 10, 2006, 04:59 PM
So, does anyone know why they didn't add a two button trackpad????
iScroll works by pressing down two fingers on the trackpad and that switches button presses as right-click. You can also scroll web pages the same way by dragging two fingers. Much more elegant solution than have multi-pad buttons.

Here's to the Crazy Ones http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=35452 (http://www.uriah.com/apple-qt/movies/think-different.mov)

stevep
Jan 10, 2006, 05:00 PM
Just realised - Apple got the UK price wrong when their web site first came back on-line after the updates. They originally said £1779. About an hour later it was changed to £1429 !!!
This caught me out, and at least one other (see posts 8, 73 and 77).

It's still too expensive for an Intel laptop - Apple are competing with the big boys now!

thequicksilver
Jan 10, 2006, 05:00 PM
Umm, there are a multitude of uses for Front Row on a laptop. The most intriguing that comes to mind is for giving presentations. I remember having to give presentations in grad school with my laptop attached to the projector. Every time I wanted to change to the next slide, I had to walk over to the machine and press the space bar to advance. And with iLife '06 and iWork '06 having new capabilities in Keynote and other apps for further integration of all your multimedia projects, there's no reason you couldn't export a presentation as individual slides and/or as Quicktime. This would make it perfect for Front Row with the new remote control.

Ahhh, but that's not Front Row, that's the remote. FWIW, most Bluetooth phones work with this perfectly - I've used my SE T610 with my iBook for this for well over 18 months. The remote's nothing special. You could even have used a wireless mouse and clicked that in mid-air - and you wouldn't have to point any of these at the computer, unlike the remote.

I stand by what I said about it.

Alex Cutter
Jan 10, 2006, 05:00 PM
• Front Row on a laptop absolutely is not a serious selling point - who in their right mind is going to use it seriously?
I don't know... how about anyone who's ever hooked up external speakers to their PBook to listen to iTunes? And didn't want to have to get up to change songs?

ChrisWright
Jan 10, 2006, 05:02 PM
This is definitely a machine for early adopters with burning wallets!! :D

It may well be a big performance improvement (if you believe Apple's claims...) but in rushing this machine out ahead of schedule they seem to have binned some useful features and others have gone backwards. At a guess I'd say this is to keep the price of the machine down, though it's still pricey.

These are the main backward steps I can see compared to the PowerBook G4:

Slower SuperDrive lacking dual-layer DVD burning support.
No FireWire 800.
No PC card slot (ExpressCard/34 isn't widely supported yet).
No internal modem (not everywhere has broadband yet).
No sudden motion sensor (not mentioned in tech specs).
No S-Video output (not all video equipment has a DVI input).
Lower resolution display (nearly 9% less pixels).
Clumsy name!

I bought an October revision PowerBook G4 1.67GHz and don't regret not hanging on for these new machines. The G4 is more than fast enough for what I need and the removed/downgraded features are things I'd miss. I'll be waiting until these Intel Macs are much more mature and fuller-featured before I think about upgrading again.

AliensAreFuzzy
Jan 10, 2006, 05:03 PM
I ordered the 1.83GHz
2x512MB RAM
100GB 7200RPM
256MB X1600
:D :D :D :D :D :D
*Drool*

dontmatter
Jan 10, 2006, 05:04 PM
what's with all the whining!

we KNEW that big advancments would come with some features dissapearing for a while. We knew they would release only some computers immediately in intel form, I'm sorry if the one you were looking for isn't around anymore, but, for that matter, it's been promised to arrive within the year!

And, seriously, would you rather apple redesign the case just because they want something new, but end up with something uglier? Changing because it should keep to some particular schedule invariably means getting rid of good designs for mediocre ones because its' time for something new, and we don't want that. It's still a rocking look.

Oh, and it costs too much. What? 4X the speed of previous PBs, numerous other specs increased, and at the same price. Sure, computers are supposed to always get faster and cheaper, but your not supposed to get 4X at the same price in one jump, and we did. So it will take longer to burn a DVD. And a quarter the time to edit the movie you put on it. Sound like a deal to me.

And, a quick search of dell's site for core duo shows a 17 incher for the same price. So sure, in apple land that would cost 500 more, but the dell's thicker, heavier, uglier. No ilife, no OS X, no isight...

DakotaGuy
Jan 10, 2006, 05:04 PM
Acer TravelMate 8200
Price: Starting at $1999
CPU: Intel Core Duo 2.0GHz processor (Intel Yonah processor)
Memory: 1 GB (expandable up to 2GB RAM) 533/677
Screen: 15.4" WXGA (1680x1050 pixel resolution)
HD: Seagate 120GB 5400rpm SATA Hard Drive
Video card: ATI Radeon X1600 256MB (256 dedicated while 256MB can be borrowed from main memory)
Optical drive: DVD-Super Multi Double Layer
Camera: Built-in 1.3 Mega pixel camera, with 225-degree swivel ability
Wireless: Intel Pro wireless 3945 a/b/g
Other: Built-in VOIP capability
Ports: 5-in-1 card reader, a connector to Acer ezDock, Acer's PCI-Express based port replicator, an ExpressCard slot, a PC Card slot, 4 USB 2.0 ports, DVI-D port, SmartCard slot, IEEE 1394 port; External Display (VGA) port, Fast Infrared port; S-video/TV-out port, Headphones/speaker/line-out port with S/PDIF support, Microphone/line-in jack, Ethernet (RJ-45) port; Modem (RJ-11) port
Weight: 6.6lbs
Bling: Carbon Fiber finish lid

So stacking this up against the $1999 MacBook, the Acer comes out ahead in terms of processor speed (2.0 vs. 1.67 GHz), RAM (1 GB vs. 512 MB), hard drive space (120 vs. 80 GB), video card memory (256 vs. 128 MB), wireless capability (802.11a availability). The Acer has 2 more USB 2.0 ports, a 5-in-1 card reader, a few more TV-out options, and a few more notebook card options. A modem is a $50 add on item for the MacBook. The Acer has a higher resolution screen, but it loses on weight (6.6 vs. 5.6 lbs.).

If we take the higher end MacBook, and try to even the specs, you can get equivalent RAM, video card RAM, and HD space, and be a little closer to equivalent processor speed through Apple for $2599. Or you could get the $1999 MacBook, go to your favorite computer parts store and pick up an extra 512MB RAM stick and a 120 GB notebook drive for about $350, in which case you are still a little short in the CPU and video RAM areas.

So which gives you more value for your money? I would still vote for the 15" MacBook. Why? Because the MacBook runs OS X instead of crappy Windows, and is lighter, which is important for those of us who actually travel with a notebook.

As far as battery life goes, Anandtech (http://anandtech.com/mobile/showdoc.aspx?i=2663) recently benchmarked an ASUS Core Duo notebook, and found that battery life was pretty good. I won't repeat all of their findings, but office/productivity tests gave a battery life of about 230 minutes, while DVD playing gave a battery life of 192 minutes. Now this notebook has a 12.1" screen, so there's a good chance that the 15" MacBook will probably not be as good in the battery life area. On the other hand, the Acer TravelMate 8200 claims a battery life of 3.5 hours, so I guess we'll just have to see what happens.

It will be interesting to see what happens on the desktop side. No Core Duo desktop other than the new iMac has been announced so far. The closest would be the few Pentium M based desktops, but they seem to carry a price premium compared to other Intel based desktops. And Pentium D desktops have not been out for that long.

Based on the (admittedly very few) current Core Duo notebook offerings out there so far, I think the best product that will come out of the migration to Intel will be the MacBook that replaces the current 12" PowerBook. The ASUS COre Duo mentioned above has a 12" screen, but the current crop of Sony notebooks include a model with a 13.3" widescreen display, which is the screen I would like to see.

Now just wait until someone finds a way to hack OSX to run on that Acer and not a lot of people are going to buy the MacBook Pro. I wonder what Apple has done to prevent this from happening? What is the show stopper from putting OSX on this Acer? Looks like the same laptop to me "inside anyhow"

iSee
Jan 10, 2006, 05:05 PM
no firewire 800 support means my backups take a century instead of a week....i regularly back up my music collection which is over 300 gb..

Wow! Well, if you can afford to buy that many songs, you can probably afford an ExpressCard FW800 port for your Macbook. Let's see, at 4MB per song, that around $75,000 in music!

And with 300GB of music to carry around, you're going to need one of those 8 lb. iPods ;)

thequicksilver
Jan 10, 2006, 05:05 PM
I don't know... how about anyone who's ever hooked up external speakers to their PBook to listen to iTunes? And didn't want to have to get up to change songs?

My laptop's a portable machine. I use it where I am, not where I'm not, and if I'm listening to music with me, it's within a metre or two of me. I can't believe that I'm atypical in this - the portability is the biggest joy about a notebook - it goes where you want to, and you don't have to go where it is.

Also, having used Front Row, navigating music with it is torturous. Getting from 808 State at the top of my list to, say, Underworld takes too long. If I left it playing music elsewhere, I'd rather get up and change it frankly, it's quicker.

50548
Jan 10, 2006, 05:06 PM
This is definitely a machine for early adopters with burning wallets!! :D

It may well be a big performance improvement (if you believe Apple's claims...) but in rushing this machine out ahead of schedule they seem to have binned some useful features and others have gone backwards. At a guess I'd say this is to keep the price of the machine down, though it's still pricey.

These are the main backward steps I can see compared to the PowerBook G4:

Slower SuperDrive lacking dual-layer DVD burning support.
No FireWire 800.
No PC card slot (ExpressCard/34 isn't widely supported yet).
No internal modem (not everywhere has broadband yet).
No sudden motion sensor (not mentioned in tech specs).
No S-Video output (not all video equipment has a DVI input).
Lower resolution display (nearly 9% less pixels).
Clumsy name!

I bought an October revision PowerBook G4 1.67GHz and don't regret not hanging on for these new machines. The G4 is more than fast enough for what I need and the removed/downgraded features are things I'd miss. I'll be waiting until these Intel Macs are much more mature and fuller-featured before I think about upgrading again.

THERE IS sudden motion sensor, ma boy...just see the keynote again. PC cards are gonna be obsolete in no time, just as the floppy...Apple is always at the forefront of adoption...Firewire 800 is a minor loss, because 400 is there...everything else you mentioned is crap. The MacBook is THE notebook for the whole market, and no PC equivalent is, well, equivalent.

Just the jump in speed was already worth it, but much brighter displays and great GPU are the cherry on the icecream...too bad I can't buy one now...APPLE RULES!

~Shard~
Jan 10, 2006, 05:08 PM
Talk about a major update! I’m quite impressed with what Apple has done with this new “PowerBook” in terms of the graphics, memory (1 GB!), as well as the HD capacity and speed. And then of course there is the built in iSight as well – very cool!

So, will this update finally silence all those “PowerBook G5!!!” whiners? :p :D

Stella
Jan 10, 2006, 05:08 PM
I'd take the Acer, really. The Acer has much more value for the same price.

Apple must compete on hardware specs - its so much more visible.

And so what if one runs OSX, and Windows - its really no excuse for Apple to add on a premium ( which they have done ).


Let's compare 2 $2,499 laptops shall we:

Apple MacBook:
CPU: Intel Core Duo 1.83Ghz
RAM: 1GB
HDD: 100GB 5400-rpm Serial ATA
DVD: Single-Layer RW
Graphics: ATI's X1600 256MB Radeon
Screen: 15.4" (1440x900)
WiFi: b/g
Weight: 5.6lbs
Battery life: ???
Casing: aluminium

Acer TravelMate 8200
CPU: Intel Core Duo 2Ghz
RAM: 2GB
HDD: Seagate 120GB 5400rpm SATA
DVD: Dual-Layer RW
Graphics: ATI's X1600 512MB Radeon
Screen: 15.4" (1366x768?)
WiFi: a/b/g
Weight: 6.6lbs
Battery Life: 6 hours (87W 7800mAH)
Casing: Carbon Fibre




Oh yes, right on. Apple needed to do something with the PowerBooks and its a step in the right direction. But comparing against the competition, its over priced.

( if I didn't know what the competitors prices were, I'd say the price was good ).

I think this version of the MacBook is just a stopgap until the Merom cpu comes out later this year, then we will see a complete redesign of the Macbook in usual Apple style.

iN8
Jan 10, 2006, 05:08 PM
I think this version of the MacBook is just a stopgap until the Merom cpu comes out later this year, then we will see a complete redesign of the Macbook in usual Apple style.

TopCatz
Jan 10, 2006, 05:08 PM
I agree.

No built in modem
An 85 Watt powerbrick supply
No svideo connector
No TV out
No FW 800
Single layer instead of dual layer DVD support
Apple pro apps aren't even universal binary yet, plus Apple is going to charge pro users an upgrade fee for pro apps even though they are just conversions to x86
..
My PPC looks pretty good right now.:D

I agree too. My 17" PB connected to my new FW800 drive and all of the above is looking very smug on its desk! This was the cheapest keynote for me for a long while!

Alex Cutter
Jan 10, 2006, 05:09 PM
My laptop's a portable machine. I use it where I am, not where I'm not...
As opposed to a desktop, which you can use where you're not?

Staffroomer
Jan 10, 2006, 05:10 PM
Ahhh, too expensive for me..:eek:

I'm going to buy an iBook instead.. :(

freeny
Jan 10, 2006, 05:10 PM
apple just updates powerbook and imac and they did not even drop the prices!


the powerbook is veyr very expensive!!

but im most dissapointed that there is no intel ibook. id saved alot and waited for a new ibook, nothing! just an expensive powerbook!!!


very very dissapointed that apple did not release an ibook! cant believe this!
Just paint the damn thing white! Whats the difference?

blueflame
Jan 10, 2006, 05:10 PM
17inch 1.67ghz. 1 gig of ram. in box with every last twistie tie
andreas
Well, I'm a little disappointed. This might seem trivial but the biggest negative is that it has the same design as the old line. I mean, this is a ground breaking shift for Apple and all they did was switch the chip out and add an iSight. No way I'm going to spend that kind of money if people don't know what I have.

And for those of you that say its all about the perforance, it's NOT> If it were you and I wouldn't be on a MAC site at all.

I was hoping for a 17" powerbook with a new design.

Any ideas on when we might see a 17" version? Since the MacBook looks the same as the PB's, would the different sizes also have to look the same?

The more I think about it, the more I think I'm going to pick up a used 17" machine to tide me over for 2 years and then when the blazing machines come out with a NEW design, I can make the jump then.

Thoughts?

Anyone have a gently used i7" PB for sale?

ev

aquatwo
Jan 10, 2006, 05:11 PM
Reading the comments here, it looks kinda 50/50 positive and negative. But I just like to share, that I did buy one as soon as I could, and am so happy!!!!

My new brothers and sisters! :) I have been thinking about a Powerbook for months now, and people have been saying wait wait till Jan etc, I just cannot wait any longer. :) I need to have one now!

This is my first ever Mac and can barely contain myself, read so much online for the last 4 months that I almost feel I know how to use it :) All those nights with manuals aaah. According to Apple i wont get it for another 5 weeks. Hopefully I can survive till then. Better organize my little signature for this forum I suppose, or shall I wait till I actually get it? :) :)

AlmostThere
Jan 10, 2006, 05:12 PM
Worth noting is that the X1600 has MPEG4 decoding and a host of video features ... whether Apple will leverage them or not we'll see.

But overall, like many, underwhelmed by this release. Loss of a few features, modem in a laptop will be missed. Well overdue CPU and GPU upgrades.

Problem is, and maybe I am catching a little bit of Mac snobbery, if I swapped my Al PB for a brand spanking new MacBook and walked into the office tomorrow ... well I very much doubt anyone would even bat an eyelid.

Best I could do is impress the techies with some numbers (who probably have their 2 Ghz Acers) but, hmm, that just doesn't seem to be the Apple way to impress.

Then again, maybe that's how Apple want it. A nonchalant change of architecture.

~Shard~
Jan 10, 2006, 05:12 PM
As with the iMac update, look at the benchmarks Apple is reporting - four times the speed of the PowerBook G4, and eight times the graphics bandwidth! I am very happy for all those PowerBooks users who have been dying for a significant update – looks like you finally got your wish! So, is Silicon Addict actually going to buy a Mac portable now? :eek: :p ;) :D

InsiderTravels
Jan 10, 2006, 05:12 PM
Ahhh, but that's not Front Row, that's the remote. FWIW, most Bluetooth phones work with this perfectly - I've used my SE T610 with my iBook for this for well over 18 months. The remote's nothing special. You could even have used a wireless mouse and clicked that in mid-air - and you wouldn't have to point any of these at the computer, unlike the remote.

I stand by what I said about it.


Ah, but you left out part of what I said. I said I know there are other remotes out there, but what if I don't have the phones required to use those bridge apps? Plus, I shouldn't have to buy a bunch of third-party shareware apps to do basic things like that.

I also said that it would be useful for those who hook their laptops up to external displays. Some people have a laptop as their ONLY machine and might like to enjoy Front Row as well.

Without Front Row, you cannot use a third-party remote to scroll through the movies, photos, songs, etc. on your system in such a way. If you can, I'd really like to know how. I'm not talking about the usefulness of using a remote with a laptop. I'm talking about the usefulness of using Front Row, or an application with similar features.

~Shard~
Jan 10, 2006, 05:13 PM
I guess the rumors were true, Apple is moving away from FW800 – this new Pro portable only has FW 400 – interesting. I still wonder why this is the case though... was FW800 just not catching on? :confused:

Alex Cutter
Jan 10, 2006, 05:13 PM
Better organize my little signature for this forum I suppose, or shall I wait till I actually get it? :) :)
Go for it! They'll even let you put up a cool avatar once you make enough posts!

iSee
Jan 10, 2006, 05:13 PM
This is definitely a machine for early adopters with burning wallets!! :D

It may well be a big performance improvement (if you believe Apple's claims...) but in rushing this machine out ahead of schedule they seem to have binned some useful features and others have gone backwards. At a guess I'd say this is to keep the price of the machine down, though it's still pricey.

These are the main backward steps I can see compared to the PowerBook G4:

Slower SuperDrive lacking dual-layer DVD burning support.
No FireWire 800.
No PC card slot (ExpressCard/34 isn't widely supported yet).
No internal modem (not everywhere has broadband yet).
No sudden motion sensor (not mentioned in tech specs).
No S-Video output (not all video equipment has a DVI input).
Lower resolution display (nearly 9% less pixels).
Clumsy name!

I bought an October revision PowerBook G4 1.67GHz and don't regret not hanging on for these new machines. The G4 is more than fast enough for what I need and the removed/downgraded features are things I'd miss. I'll be waiting until these Intel Macs are much more mature and fuller-featured before I think about upgrading again.

The sudden motion sensor *is* mentioned--on the "Design" page.

~Shard~
Jan 10, 2006, 05:14 PM
This new MagSafe power connector looks pretty slick as well – I’ll have to do some reading about it on Apple’s site. Although the major updates are impressive of course, it’s these little things, these little touches, that I always love seeing from Apple. ;) :)

wasimyaqoob
Jan 10, 2006, 05:14 PM
Just like all new products, there will be many problems with the first line of Intel based laptops - Im fine with my PowerPC G4, only bought it 2 weeks ago :D

slffl
Jan 10, 2006, 05:15 PM
Concerning the size and style comments.

How in the world do you expect these laptops to get any smaller? Maybe making the bezel 1mm wide? You cant make the base thinner unless you invent all new ports that are thinner.

Also, IMO the current Powerbook design is perfect. From the hinge, to the side ports, to the keyboard, to the mouse, to the aluminum.

I'm very interested to hear some ideas about how you would make it smaller and the design concerns you have (other than color)?

magicharm
Jan 10, 2006, 05:16 PM
Now, correct me if I'm wrong because I've only been into macs for about 2 years now, but didn't apple do something similar to this back when the titanium powerbook was released? Wasn't the titanium released, and then shortly after we got the 17 and 12 inch aluminums, and then they lagged for a while before making the 15" match up with the other two? So isn't it possible that in 6 months or so apple will release a 17" MacBook Pro, 12" (or probably 13" widescreen) MacBook Pro (and a consumer version) that will be substantially better than the 15" they just released? This is what I believe will happen (based on nothing other than common sense, and the fact that this 15" MacBook Pro seems to have been rushed).

I think that something is going on with battery life that apple didn't like (hence no release of specs), but that they will iron all that out within a few months. Then they will probably add the dual layer DVD drive back in. The 17" still has a chance of getting a FW800, because apple seems to like to throw all of their bells and whistles at that model.

As for me, I'm pleased with the release, because it looks like things are moving in the right direction. I bought my first mac, a 12" powerbook a year ago (right when intel-switch rumors were starting to heat up) because I figured that by the time that a Rev B of the intel 12"/13" widescreen was out that the dust would have settled on all of the apps making the switch and the kinks worked out. I'm still hoping for that. I just really hope that they don't do away with a smaller pro model completely, unless their smallest consumer model is amazing.

Oh, and I LOVE the new magnetic power adapter - that is simply brilliant. The iSight is nothing I care much about, but I can't compain (though I don't really see how it would work in a smaller notebook and would rather them lose it if it will make a smaller machine). But back to the power adapter, that is innovative, and just what I expect from apple. They just need 2 or 3 more little (but extremely useful) adaptations like that, and they will have an amazing an cutting edge laptop again. I think we will get there though, and will refrain from making more judgements until apple releases additional laptops.

BENJMNS
Jan 10, 2006, 05:16 PM
If you're in the market for a PB now, tough call.

This is looking too much like an interim, lame duck product right now. In a few months, I'm guessing they'll up the power, speed immediately w/o minimal price increase if any. And perhaps even have solid, real-life testimony on battery life and heat and performance.

Evolutionary. I'm looking for revolutionary. Like a 12 hour single charge with no trade-offs. New, lighter components. New LCD technology with clearer screens.

I'm going to buy the 17" hi-res today. I'll be working with the PC side once Vista pops later this year (it's going to be impressive esp paired with the quicker hardware advancements on the PC side). Then perhaps after that, if Apple makes a compelling upgrade to software and hardware that matches the enhancements, I'll give serious consideration yet again.

I'm neutral on this keynote and the new MacBook.

Krevnik
Jan 10, 2006, 05:18 PM
As someone whose latest portable was a Pismo 400 (yes, a Pismo) during college... I am definitely getting one of these. While, yes, it is a step back in some ways, it is also a step forward in others. Those steps forward are what are currently important to me in getting a laptop.

Seeing as this thing will likely be visiting Redmond with me, once we get XP or Vista running on these, it makes a great machine for those who would like to straddle the two platforms using one box.

iN8
Jan 10, 2006, 05:18 PM
I guess the rumors were true, Apple is moving away from FW800 – this new Pro portable only has FW 400 – interesting. I still wonder why this is the case though... was FW800 just not catching on? :confused:

I guess it didn' tge the adoption Apple expected. I don' tremember seeing any DV cams adding it, mainly hard drive manufacturers.

Lacero
Jan 10, 2006, 05:19 PM
How in the world do you expect these laptops to get any smaller?
True. The 15" is already thinner than the previous 17" so that is nothing to sneeze at. All this AND they've managed to put in a dual core chip and a camera. Very impressive.

Here's to the Crazy Ones http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=35452 (http://www.uriah.com/apple-qt/movies/think-different.mov)

dreamcast
Jan 10, 2006, 05:19 PM
Wow! Well, if you can afford to buy that many songs, you can probably afford an ExpressCard FW800 port for your Macbook. Let's see, at 4MB per song, that around $75,000 in music!

And with 300GB of music to carry around, you're going to need one of those 8 lb. iPods ;)


haha, well i actually encoded all my songs at 320aac with a sprinkling of apple lossles for my favorite albums. to be specific, i have 34,426 songs taking up 338.52 gb at 95.3 days ...all with cover art from itms or other high quality cover art.

Chooser
Jan 10, 2006, 05:20 PM
Not sure if I can get used to the new name, 'MacBook'. The first thing that comes to my mind is, 'I'll have a MacBook value meal with supersized fries and a coke.'

I'm gonna miss the Powerbook name, it just had a sense of prestige to it. MacBook sounds kiddish.

Oh well, I'm still excited to see what's in the near future.

ieani
Jan 10, 2006, 05:21 PM
Well as much as I want this machine. Ill wait and see. I do not need a notebook until next fall so I am waiting.

2nyRiggz
Jan 10, 2006, 05:22 PM
MacBook is just to wet the mouth until the powermac(whatever) comes out. its good enough to compete.


Bless

Krevnik
Jan 10, 2006, 05:22 PM
Evolutionary. I'm looking for revolutionary. Like a 12 hour single charge with no trade-offs. New, lighter components. New LCD technology with clearer screens.

No trade-offs on a 12 hour charge? Wow, you aren't asking for much, are ya, just some bending of the laws of physics. ;)

Smaller/Lighter, Faster, Longer Battery. Pick any 2, but the third will suffer horribly. The real problem is that to get around the current limitations requires some RADICAL new material engineering, and technology for those is still very much in the research phase.

Alex Cutter
Jan 10, 2006, 05:23 PM
Not sure if I can get used to the new name, 'MacBook'. The first thing that comes to my mind is, 'I'll have a MacBook value meal with supersized fries and a coke.'
Four pages ago called...

Music_Producer
Jan 10, 2006, 05:24 PM
What a bunch of retards everyone is.. I swear.. first everyone waits for the new powerbook and they're like "It better be dual core or else i'll kidnap steve job's momma".. now when they release it.. everyone says its not good enough. Not good enough??

Firewire will be dead.. it sucks for the real pro users.. firewire drives run at what? 7200 rpm? Thats utter crap! We need atleast 10,000 rpm or 15,000 rpm drives. I was amazed that instead of a PC card, they included a Express /34 card.. fantastic! That's preparing for the future.. I'll be the first one to buy a Express /34 SCSI adapter so I can use my scsi drives with the macbook.

And then they do all these comparisons with the Acer.. geez.. for a $500 difference, yes I'll go with the macbook. I prefer the OS (my windows laptop was running flawlessly for 6 months.. and 3 days ago it just crashed.. some kind of system error.. and i don't even use it to go online..so there's no spyware or anything!)

A beautiful laptop, a powerful OS, additional little features like the magnetic power adapter bit, the isight built in, backlit keyboard, Express /34 (a BIG plus for pros) .. you're telling me you would want the Acer over the macbook? For 500 bucks? When you do buy the Acer, don't forget to spend money routinely on updates.. on anti-virus software, backups, etc. etc.

The dual layer drive support is not there because, dual layer is not THAT popular. Dual layer dvds are expensive and slow.. I'd rather buy a hard drive for backup than have a stack of dual layer DVDs.. the next MB will have a Blue Ray DVD drive (if its standard by then) Yes, they could have included a dual layer drive to appease the whiners, but I don't find it necessary.

I figure there will always be people who will never be satisfied and will keep praying and waiting for Rev. A,B,C,D and so on.. What do you want? a Quad core 15.5 ghz laptop? Honestly, what do you whiners need that power for?

sw1tcher
Jan 10, 2006, 05:24 PM
Don't expect to see the PowerBook line die just yet as they still haven't updated the 12 or 17 inch. I suspect you might see another PowerBook update before the line dies. As for FW800 Apple won't support something the industry is not catching on to. Apple was hoping for industry acceptance and it never happened.

Correction. Intel won't support something that the industry is not catching on to. Remember, it's an Intel mobo that's in the PB, err... MBP, now. USB is Intel's creation. That's probably why it got left out.

At least they could have put 2 more USB ports on there.

sw1tcher
Jan 10, 2006, 05:26 PM
so will it be able to run windows or not?

Yes. (http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/virtualpc/virtualpc.aspx)

Randall
Jan 10, 2006, 05:28 PM
They could have given us an extra USB port to make up for the lack of FW800. Intel doesn't have a chipset for FW800, and that is why we lost it.

progx
Jan 10, 2006, 05:28 PM
farewell Powerbook, we barely knew ye.

MacBook? hmm, Mary Jane have a say in the name? eh, this should be interesting, so i'm saving my pennies for a VoodooPC AMD64 portable! now that the Intel edition of Mac OS X is out, i have a choice!

i will admit, the iSight cam to the MacBook was nice touch, but it makes my Powerbook 15" 1.5Ghz look better in terms of connectivity and options. anything is better than a G4. a G5 on the other hand, we had it good…

Alex Cutter
Jan 10, 2006, 05:29 PM
I prefer the OS (my windows laptop was running flawlessly for 6 months.. and 3 days ago it just crashed.. some kind of system error.. and i don't even use it to go online..so there's no spyware or anything!)
Yes, because Macs never crash. :rolleyes:

capvideo
Jan 10, 2006, 05:30 PM
No trade-offs on a 12 hour charge? Wow, you aren't asking for much, are ya, just some bending of the laws of physics. ;)

Smaller/Lighter, Faster, Longer Battery. Pick any 2, but the third will suffer horribly.

Well, there is the rumored flash drive-equipped hard drive. Adding, say, one gigabyte of flash memory to buffer between the drive and the Mac ought to drastically increase battery life for some applications (such as browsing the web) by keeping the hard drive from having to spin up until more than one gigabyte of data have been written.

Jerry

sfwalter
Jan 10, 2006, 05:30 PM
Does the MacBook Pro satisfy everyone? No
Does the MacBook Pro bring the Apple laptop back to its glory days? Yes

This is just the first of many to be released Intel based products. Although I'm on the fencing of buying a Macbook Pro to replace my 15" Powerbook, Apple has delivered a great product! Kudos to the Apple and Intel teams.

What would really put me over the edge to buy one is VMWare or some other virtualization software so I can run some Windows only apps I need at work. I don't want dual booting, I want to run Windows apps inside windows on my OS X desktop. Once this is done the MacBook is a done deal and I can turn in my Dell Latitude piece of crap.

cheers, scott.

ChrisWright
Jan 10, 2006, 05:31 PM
THERE IS sudden motion sensor, ma boy...just see the keynote again.

I didn't see the keynote, and it isn't mentioned in the tech specs. Take a look for yourself: http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/whatsinside.html

Edit: You're right - it's mentioned on the design page (http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/design.html) so they must have forgotten to include it on the tech specs page.

PC cards are gonna be obsolete in no time, just as the floppy...Apple is always at the forefront of adoption...

I agree, but at the moment there are a lot of PC cards available and not many ExpressCards! Not much use having a slot with nothing to put in it... :)

Firewire 800 is a minor loss, because 400 is there...

FW800 + FW400 = 2 ports
FW400 = 1 port

We've lost a FireWire port. So now we need a FireWire hub, more cables and another power supply to use an external hard drive and camcorder at the same time. For me that was always a niggle with the older PowerBooks.

everything else you mentioned is crap.

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. For me though, S-Video/composite output is great for TV display, and with PhotoShop and Final Cut Express I need all the screen "real estate" I can get, so losing 122,400 pixels does make a difference!

The MacBook is THE notebook for the whole market, and no PC equivalent is, well, equivalent.

I agree it's unique in some respects, but there's a huge amount of competition which is now more directly comparable. Apple will have to work much harder to compete from now on.

Just the jump in speed was already worth it, but much brighter displays and great GPU are the cherry on the icecream...too bad I can't buy one now...APPLE RULES!

There's no doubting that faster is better, but in daily usage it's the small things that make the difference between a good machine and a truly great one.

progx
Jan 10, 2006, 05:31 PM
Originally Posted by speedemonV12
so will it be able to run windows or not?

yes, you can install a clean version of Windows on your Intel Mac. sounds like something Gil did about a decade ago, the PC compatible Mac with that gaming card from Orange Micro.

Dr.Gargoyle
Jan 10, 2006, 05:31 PM
Wrong!
MBs start from # 1429, in U$ its $1999.

The top model is #1779, where as the top model in US is $2499
Besides, I think the UK prices are with VAT included. I too was upset about the price difference between US and abroad, until I realized when you added tax to the US price the difference wasnt that much to talk about.

strange days
Jan 10, 2006, 05:32 PM
I think this version of the MacBook is just a stopgap until the Merom cpu comes out later this year, then we will see a complete redesign of the Macbook in usual Apple style.

second that ( maybe the Macbook [ not pro ] rev.B will have these specs then ? ...looking forward to September Apple Show in Paris...); this MacBook Pro is rushed out for the benefit of stock, marketing, fans...

...it's not a bad machine, but an old winning design with ( much due ) revamped specs.

Price is Apple typical, and we'll see how it fares with PC laptops on same HD, and the whole hacking OSX issue...

Looks nice, not excellent; hopefully VPC VMware or others will come out quickly with a solution to run windows apps native and we'll have switchers galore !

nxent
Jan 10, 2006, 05:32 PM
This is BS. No mention of battery life IS worrysome say what you will. Otherwise they would have mentioned it.
But the biggest screw-up is no DL drive anymore... what's up with that? I guess I'll wait another year until all apps are universal, until Merom is out and Apple has ironed out the bugs.

this is exactly why you wait until rev 2. i've got another year on my powerbook G4 so that's when i'm shooting for. hopefully they'll really have something that raises hell(not that this doesn't) by then. now that i think of it, it's possible apple 'left' features off the intel probook for the sole purpose of maintaining the sellability of the powerbooks (fw800, dual layer dvd burner, etc). which kinda makes sense...

sw1tcher
Jan 10, 2006, 05:32 PM
MacBook, what an absolutely awful name. It just doesn't trip off your tongue like Powerbook or iBook.

I can almost hear people asking me if I want fries with it.:(

But only if you buy the 17" (Big)MacBook Pro though.

Maybe they'll do a tie in with McDonalds or something.

Randall
Jan 10, 2006, 05:33 PM
Well, there is the rumored flash drive-equipped hard drive. Adding, say, one gigabyte of flash memory to buffer between the drive and the Mac ought to drastically increase battery life for some applications (such as browsing the web) by keeping the hard drive from having to spin up until more than one gigabyte of data have been written.

JerryThat would make too much sense. :rolleyes:

50548
Jan 10, 2006, 05:33 PM
What a bunch of retards everyone is.. I swear.. first everyone waits for the new powerbook and they're like "It better be dual core or else i'll kidnap steve job's momma".. now when they release it.. everyone says its not good enough. Not good enough??

Firewire will be dead.. it sucks for the real pro users.. firewire drives run at what? 7200 rpm? Thats utter crap! We need atleast 10,000 rpm or 15,000 rpm drives. I was amazed that instead of a PC card, they included a Express /34 card.. fantastic! That's preparing for the future.. I'll be the first one to buy a Express /34 SCSI adapter so I can use my scsi drives with the macbook.

And then they do all these comparisons with the Acer.. geez.. for a $500 difference, yes I'll go with the macbook. I prefer the OS (my windows laptop was running flawlessly for 6 months.. and 3 days ago it just crashed.. some kind of system error.. and i don't even use it to go online..so there's no spyware or anything!)

A beautiful laptop, a powerful OS, additional little features like the magnetic power adapter bit, the isight built in, backlit keyboard, Express /34 (a BIG plus for pros) .. you're telling me you would want the Acer over the macbook? For 500 bucks? When you do buy the Acer, don't forget to spend money routinely on updates.. on anti-virus software, backups, etc. etc.

The dual layer drive support is not there because, dual layer is not THAT popular. Dual layer dvds are expensive and slow.. I'd rather buy a hard drive for backup than have a stack of dual layer DVDs.. the next MB will have a Blue Ray DVD drive (if its standard by then) Yes, they could have included a dual layer drive to appease the whiners, but I don't find it necessary.

I figure there will always be people who will never be satisfied and will keep praying and waiting for Rev. A,B,C,D and so on.. What do you want? a Quad core 15.5 ghz laptop? Honestly, what do you whiners need that power for?

I can only agree with EVERYTHING you said above...how many ****ING RETARDS we have here? Drop this forum, whiners!

Modem - how many of you still use it? how many hotels still use it? BUZZ OFF!

FW800 - the market adoption is close to ZERO, and FW400 is still THERE! Besides, as many people already said, the best solution for FW is DAISY-CHAIN!

Lower Resolution - YOU LOST 300 PIXELS AND GOT A LOT MORE BRIGHTNESS, DAMNED! WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? YOU ALWAYS COMPLAINED ABOUT "XBrite", so what now?

DL RW - DL discs ARE expensive and hard to find...NO NEED FOR THAT right now!

ALL OTHER PERKS are there with a good price, and there is NOTHING to complain about, NOTABLY speed and battery, thinner design, backlit keyboard, sudden motion sensor and everything ELSE! GET REAL!

And concerning the Acer "dude", go get it roger! Acer sucks for laptops, and it also includes Windows XP for ya! Apple is, above all, ABOUT SOFTWARE!

SJ, congrats for another GREAT keynote! GO APPLE!

Lacero
Jan 10, 2006, 05:36 PM
First thing a hacker is going to do is try installing Windows XP on the MBP. We'll see the extent of Apple's TPM protection mechanism. Any chance they only released this one model to gauge how effect their hardware locks are?

Here's to the Crazy Ones http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=35452 (http://www.uriah.com/apple-qt/movies/think-different.mov)

Randall
Jan 10, 2006, 05:36 PM
I would have liked FireWire400 x 2 ports to make up for the missing data port they robbed us of. Perhaps Rev B will bring more to the table, and an option to ditch the camera in favor of more pixels on the screen.

strange days
Jan 10, 2006, 05:36 PM
What a bunch of retards everyone is.. I swear.. first everyone waits for the new powerbook and they're like "It better be dual core or else i'll kidnap steve job's momma".. now when they release it.. everyone says its not good enough. Not good enough??

Firewire will be dead.. it sucks for the real pro users.. firewire drives run at what? 7200 rpm? Thats utter crap! We need atleast 10,000 rpm or 15,000 rpm drives. I was amazed that instead of a PC card, they included a Express /34 card.. fantastic! That's preparing for the future.. I'll be the first one to buy a Express /34 SCSI adapter so I can use my scsi drives with the macbook.

And then they do all these comparisons with the Acer.. geez.. for a $500 difference, yes I'll go with the macbook. I prefer the OS (my windows laptop was running flawlessly for 6 months.. and 3 days ago it just crashed.. some kind of system error.. and i don't even use it to go online..so there's no spyware or anything!)

A beautiful laptop, a powerful OS, additional little features like the magnetic power adapter bit, the isight built in, backlit keyboard, Express /34 (a BIG plus for pros) .. you're telling me you would want the Acer over the macbook? For 500 bucks? When you do buy the Acer, don't forget to spend money routinely on updates.. on anti-virus software, backups, etc. etc.

The dual layer drive support is not there because, dual layer is not THAT popular. Dual layer dvds are expensive and slow.. I'd rather buy a hard drive for backup than have a stack of dual layer DVDs.. the next MB will have a Blue Ray DVD drive (if its standard by then) Yes, they could have included a dual layer drive to appease the whiners, but I don't find it necessary.

I figure there will always be people who will never be satisfied and will keep praying and waiting for Rev. A,B,C,D and so on.. What do you want? a Quad core 15.5 ghz laptop? Honestly, what do you whiners need that power for?


THANKS !

...quite a few points i wasn't taking in due consideration; raises my vote for this MacBook Pro release from nice to solid ! :D

Garissimo
Jan 10, 2006, 05:36 PM
Looks like they rushed this one out the door for stock-valuation and PR value.

We have a winner. This is an update stockholders and spec junkies will love but people who travel with and use Powerbooks on a daily basis aren't going to be too excited about.

Turn the clock down on the dualCore if need be, but give us a cooler, lighter, more battery friendly laptop.

Until then, I have no reason to part ways with my 12" Powerbook.

Tymmz
Jan 10, 2006, 05:37 PM
I'm still glad I got my 12'' PB. For the size of that thing compared to the "power" I couldn't be happier.

Need to get me some RAM. Better tomorrow than later.

I'm really looking forward to a nice 12'' or 13'' MacBook Pro to the end of the year. When every pro-app is binary and the "beta-testers" got the bugs out of the intel-machines. Though I think they won't have that many bugs.

Hope we get some independent benchmarks soon.

dreamcast
Jan 10, 2006, 05:37 PM
This just in, As the Macworld expo draws to a close, programming geeks and apple elite designers are hard at work on the new Macbook "revised"..what will it be you may wonder, well it's due out just in time for xmas 2006, october 4 2006 to be exact. This 'revised" Macbook will not have a single layer dvd burner, not a double layer dvd burner, but a BLUE RAY dvd burner capable of holding 50 gb per disc. Also you will notice the sleek 15.3 inch screen with the glossy display capable of showing high def to the max.. In addition, the new macbook revised will be only 3.5 pounds using a composite material. In addition, the Firewire 800 port is standard as to appease the rankled apple aficionados and creative types who mostly use Apple laptops anyway...The price will be 1799 dollars, and don't forget this comes standard with a 300gb hard drive hahahah.

Wes Jordan
Jan 10, 2006, 05:37 PM
Yeah, I am definitely going to wait until next year same time when I can get my Macbook preloaded with Leopard and iLife '07, a 160GB HD, a Merom proc, a Blu-Ray burner, etc.....

What's up with the drive in general? 4x burner? What happend to the 8x burner?:confused:

Well, by then you'll be saying I'll just wait until next year when they have iLife '08 and Mac OSX Elephant(yeah..right) and they have the new 5 GHz quad-core processor. Technology will always be changing and in the visible future. At some point you have to decide that now is the time you will buy even though something better is on the horizon.


I just ordered my very first mac, an Intel Powerbook(not going to call it a MacBook Pro) with the Sims 2 along with the University expansion. I'll have t get more software when I get it and I'm still waiting for a wireless MM! I can't wait. Any ideas of what part of February it will ship?

Unregistered.
Jan 10, 2006, 05:37 PM
This is NOT the fastest notebook ever, and I am amazed that everybody is quoting that sales pitch as if it were gospel. It would take about a 30-second Google search to find faster laptops from VoodooPC or Alienware or Falcon Northwest or HP, not to mention the other Yonah laptops that other companies have already released at higher clockspeeds than the new "Macbook"! The Macbook seems to max out at 1.83GHz (looking on Apple's website), while the ThinkPad T60 goes to 2.13GHz, and various Asus models go to 2GHz DualCore Yonah.

HOW can everybody be this gullible? I admit that Apple makes great gear - I have a PowerBook, an iPod Nano, and a Mac Mini and love them - but this is an outright LIE. Stop quoting it without thinking. You're doing yourselves a disservice by being gullible and unwise shoppers. It's the fastest Mac Laptop ever, but Jobs should believe in his product enough not to have to lie to sell it. They will sell themselves. And I'm amazed that every Mac fan touts Apple as being so much more ethical than Microsoft, but they let stuff like this slide. Lying is lying. And if we don't hold Apple responsible with at least a "p.s. Apple shouldn't lie" at the bottom of our rabid worshipping posts, who will?

Ten Seconds it took:
http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2702
http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2711

And I'm not even going to try to explain Rosetta's speed hit to you people, since 90% of you don't want to hear it anyway.

I can't believe that I'm the voice of frickin' reason around here.

jcrewleif
Jan 10, 2006, 05:38 PM
Will the new imac and macbookpro be able to run Windows xp?

Shagrat
Jan 10, 2006, 05:39 PM
Compare like for like. The $1999 US model is £1429, which translates to $2520.68. Seems ridiculous. Then consider that the US price is without sales tax, so let's remove our equivalent, the whopping 17.5% VAT.

Then we have £1216.17, or $2145.24. It's about $150 over the top, more than I'd like but it's been worse in the past.

If you want to blame anyone for the huge difference in price, blame Gordon Brown…

Er, wrong.

"In 1979, the UK had a Zero Rate, a Basic Rate of 12.5 per cent charged on "luxury" items and a reduced rate of 8 per cent charged on most other goods and services. When the Conservatives came to power that year, Chancellor Geoffrey Howe increased both of these to a single rate of 15 per cent, to partially offset the impact of large cuts to the Basic and Higher Rates of Income Tax. This was portrayed as a deliberate move aimed at shifting the burden of taxation from earnings to consumption.

VAT remained at 15 per cent until 1991, when Norman Lamont increased it to 17.5 per cent. This step was intended to provide revenue for the "Community Charge Reduction Scheme", aimed at assisting local authorities suffering from the fall-out of massive levels of defaulting on the "poll tax".

Get your facts right!

Now back to Mac Business...

ariechel
Jan 10, 2006, 05:39 PM
MacBook Pro
15.4 inches (diagonal) 1440 by 900 digital display.

PowerBook G4 15"
15.2 inches (diagonal) 1440 by 960 digital display.

Sorry. I wonder why the 60 pixels are gone?

I hope it means that they figured out a way to get rid of the notorious "horizontal lines" problem.

azzurri000
Jan 10, 2006, 05:39 PM
I know the extra space over the screen is necessary for the built-in isight camera, but the first time I saw the new macbook pro, the first thing I thought was how it looked like any dell laptop.

I suppose they had a tradeoff between form and function, but I think that part of the laptop looks ugly.

I also agree about the name: ick.

2nyRiggz
Jan 10, 2006, 05:39 PM
First thing a hacker is going to do is try installing Windows XP on the MBP. We'll see the extent of Apple's TPM protection mechanism. Any chance they only released this one model to gauge how effect their hardware locks are?

Here's to the Crazy Ones http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=35452 (http://www.uriah.com/apple-qt/movies/think-different.mov)

well you know the hackers are drooling and waiting to get their nasty grubs on the MBP so they can be the 1.....

Bless

ClaphamChris
Jan 10, 2006, 05:40 PM
Just my 2 cents....

Good to see fast, solid progress. But the MacBook as it stands is clearly just a filler. More a marketing move than anything.

Let's see what happens when Intel's Merom line is available - that's when I think it'll get really interesting.

And one small point: While it's the top of the Apple line, it's using the two lowest clock speed variants of the chip. So, erm, it's not top of every line.

Heat, I'll wager.

Is that a burning smell I can get drifting from the labs?

Parikh1234
Jan 10, 2006, 05:40 PM
I placed an order for a CTO MacBook maxed out and then I realized the dvd and the FW800 was something I needed. I called apple to cancel the order and the guy was like "We appreciate your order and we would like you to keep it, I can give you an extra 100 dollars off your order if you decide to keep it." Just thought I would let you guys know incase you wanted to try to get a better deal.

--Shivam

Lacero
Jan 10, 2006, 05:40 PM
Will the new imac and macbookpro be able to run Windows xp?
I hope so. Would keep me from having to upgrade my old Pentium 150Mhz. I could see this beneficial for my web design work, so I can test browser compatibility with my web sites. Dual boot or windowed mode would just be awesome!

Here's to the Crazy Ones http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=35452 (http://www.uriah.com/apple-qt/movies/think-different.mov)

Stella
Jan 10, 2006, 05:40 PM
FW is far from dead, many devices still use FW such as MiniDV, plus its faster than USB 2.

FW is great for daisy chaining hard discs, as you've heard before.

USB is better for some devices, such as input devices, and FW is good for other devices.

Did you not see the article last week saying FW market should explode this year?


Firewire will be dead.. it sucks for the real pro users.. firewire drives run at what? 7200 rpm? Thats utter crap! We need atleast 10,000 rpm or 15,000 rpm drives. I was amazed that instead of a PC card, they included a Express /34 card.. fantastic! That's preparing for the future.. I'll be the first one to buy a Express /34 SCSI adapter so I can use my scsi drives with the macbook.

ChrisWright
Jan 10, 2006, 05:40 PM
I can only agree with EVERYTHING you said above...how many ****ING RETARDS we have here? Drop this forum, whiners!

You evidently don't agree with freedom of speech.

weldon
Jan 10, 2006, 05:41 PM
First thing a hacker is going to do is try installing Windows XP on the MBP. We'll see the extent of Apple's TPM protection mechanism. Any chance they only released this one model to gauge how effect their hardware locks are?
Apple has already said they won't take measures to prevent people from installing Windows XP on an Intel-based Mac. The h/w protection is there to prevent people from install Mac OS X on a PC laptop from another manufacturer.

sw1tcher
Jan 10, 2006, 05:41 PM
That basically shows that Apple is waaay overpriced.

Sad that we still have to pay Apple's premium. I thought (like almost everyone) that the switch over to Intel would bring slightly lower prices.

progx
Jan 10, 2006, 05:43 PM
I can only agree with EVERYTHING you said above...how many ****ING RETARDS we have here? Drop this forum, whiners!

Modem - how many of you still use it? how many hotels still use it? BUZZ OFF!

FW800 - the market adoption is close to ZERO, and FW400 is still THERE! Besides, as many people already said, the best solution for FW is DAISY-CHAIN!

Lower Resolution - YOU LOST 300 PIXELS AND GOT A LOT MORE BRIGHTNESS, DAMNED! WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? YOU ALWAYS COMPLAINED ABOUT "XBrite", so what now?

DL RW - DL discs ARE expensive and hard to find...NO NEED FOR THAT right now!

ALL OTHER PERKS are there with a good price, and there is NOTHING to complain about, NOTABLY speed and battery, thinner design, backlit keyboard, sudden motion sensor and everything ELSE! GET REAL!

And concerning the Acer "dude", go get it roger! Acer sucks for laptops, and it also includes Windows XP for ya! Apple is, above all, ABOUT SOFTWARE!

SJ, congrats for another GREAT keynote! GO APPLE!

easy greenhorn.

i agree with a few things you said, but as a prosumer i have to disagree with a good portion of it.

first off, losing 300 pixels? that's a semi-big deal since i need screen space to work with Photoshop and Illustrator.

secondly, this laptop is basically a preview of what's to come. right now, they're trying to fill the big mistake from trusting Motorola with the G4 by getting rid of the Powerbook G4's lousy bus speed 167 Mhz vs. 667 Mhz, you do the math.

thirdly, this brings Apple on the same level as all other PC manufacturers. Intel isn't going to do us any favors. we're not going to get exclusive stuff, we're just a customer to Intel; they're definitely not IBM or Freescale (Motorola). plus with licensing all our technology to MS, Apple can only fight software with software, the hardware innovation game is over. we're all playing in the same field now, except for PowerPC owners.

the great thing about Mac OS X coming to x86 is the choice factor. Apple may be touting that it will only work with Intel, but they're completely wrong. Intel gets many of their innovations from AMD, it is the same thing. so, if our friend wants to buy an Acer, go ahead, but you can buy a copy of Mac OS X and put it on your new PC.

by far, the G5s are better buys currently, the remaining G4s, well it's up to you.

Will Cheyney
Jan 10, 2006, 05:43 PM
Notice how the new laptop is called a 'MacBook' instead of a PowerBook? Could the be some 'pro' versions in the pipeline?

~Shard~
Jan 10, 2006, 05:45 PM
[QUOTE=Lacero]I hope so. Would keep me from having to upgrade my old Pentium 150Mhz. I could see this beneficial for my web design work, so I can test browser compatibility with my web sites. Dual boot or windowed mode would just be awesome!QUOTE]

Yes, dual boot would indeed be nice - I use my PC for such limited things nowadays it would really be nice to just get rid of it and have one machine. I'd primarily run OS X on it of course, but for those few times I need a PC dual boot would come in soooo handy. :cool:

finchna
Jan 10, 2006, 05:45 PM
I think the MacBook is a transition model. Probably 15" is the most popular, perhaps the 15" PB has the lowest number in stock. Don't think that FW800 is a big deal. Don't like the 1440x900 screen resolution--would have liked something by 1080 so you could see true HD. Which brings up the DVD--perhaps Apple is getting rid of its stock of DVD SL drives and preparing for all machines after X date having Blu-Ray RW--why waste money on DL drives when BR will be compatible with everything. (although not sure about CDs)

Power connector looks good--just had to replace my TiBook power supply because the connection wire gave out. Happy that it has FW400. Not sure about battery life--if it's long enough to watch a movie on an airplane (2 or 2.5 hours) that's decent for now. Guess I'm not doing things where I'm not around power for much longer than that. And if it's really 4x as fast for most things I think it's a pretty nice machine! (even for a transition machine)

progx
Jan 10, 2006, 05:47 PM
This is NOT the fastest notebook ever, and I am amazed that everybody is quoting that sales pitch as if it were gospel. It would take about a 30-second Google search to find faster laptops from VoodooPC or Alienware or Falcon Northwest or HP, not to mention the other Yonah laptops that other companies have already released at higher clockspeeds than the new "Macbook"! The Macbook seems to max out at 1.83GHz (looking on Apple's website), while the ThinkPad T60 goes to 2.13GHz, and various Asus models go to 2GHz DualCore Yonah.

HOW can everybody be this gullible? I admit that Apple makes great gear - I have a PowerBook, an iPod Nano, and a Mac Mini and love them - but this is an outright LIE. Stop quoting it without thinking. You're doing yourselves a disservice by being gullible and unwise shoppers. It's the fastest Mac Laptop ever, but Jobs should believe in his product enough not to have to lie to sell it. They will sell themselves.

Ten Seconds it took:
http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2702
http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2711

And I'm not even going to try to explain Rosetta's speed hit to you people, since 90% of you don't want to hear it anyway.

I can't believe that I'm the voice of frickin' reason around here.

oh yes, you are absolutely right. i totally agree.

as i said, Apple is out of the hardware business.

VoodooPC and Alienware are Intel's top customers for high powered chips too, so if you want anything in their range when Apple gets ahold it be prepared to break the bank. our fairly priced hardware and software bundle days are over.

Kelson
Jan 10, 2006, 05:47 PM
Sad that we still have to pay Apple's premium. I thought (like almost everyone) that the switch over to Intel would bring slightly lower prices.

Apple still has to pay for OS X development, along with the other free applications. That costs money.

Apple is not just like any other HW vendor in that they have a huge amount of in-house software development. They don't have the quantity that MSFT does to get the software overhead cost down as low as MSFT can with Windows.

- Kelson

sw1tcher
Jan 10, 2006, 05:47 PM
Wow! Well, if you can afford to buy that many songs, you can probably afford an ExpressCard FW800 port for your Macbook. Let's see, at 4MB per song, that around $75,000 in music!

And with 300GB of music to carry around, you're going to need one of those 8 lb. iPods ;)

But s/he didn't say what bit rate they're at. You're assuming they're at 128kbps or so. Maybe s/he's a DJ and all the songs are encoded using Apples lossless format which means songs are at least 30MBs each, putting that at about 100 songs.

Marvy
Jan 10, 2006, 05:47 PM
Whats up with the horrible Euro conversion rate of this thing? Even with taxes applied to the U.S. price, is 2.599 EU, uhm what... 2.099... oh, wait they just changed the German Apple Site. OK, I can live with 2.099 EU! :D

tny
Jan 10, 2006, 05:48 PM
Notice how the new laptop is called a 'MacBook' instead of a PowerBook? Could the be some 'pro' versions in the pipeline?

It's called a "MacBook pro" - it IS the pro version. The question is - what will the iBook-replacement "MacBook" be like? Perhaps it will be a "MacBook mini"?

Randall
Jan 10, 2006, 05:49 PM
Apple has already said they won't take measures to prevent people from installing Windows XP on an Intel-based Mac. The h/w protection is there to prevent people from install Mac OS X on a PC laptop from another manufacturer.Like that will stop them... :rolleyes:

Diatribe
Jan 10, 2006, 05:51 PM
this is exactly why you wait until rev 2. i've got another year on my powerbook G4 so that's when i'm shooting for. hopefully they'll really have something that raises hell(not that this doesn't) by then. now that i think of it, it's possible apple 'left' features off the intel probook for the sole purpose of maintaining the sellability of the powerbooks (fw800, dual layer dvd burner, etc). which kinda makes sense...

You might have a point but they'll lose sales this way too, as I for one, will be waiting.

Alex Cutter
Jan 10, 2006, 05:51 PM
This is NOT the fastest notebook ever, and I am amazed that everybody is quoting that sales pitch as if it were gospel. It would take about a 30-second Google search to find faster laptops from VoodooPC or Alienware or Falcon Northwest or HP, not to mention the other Yonah laptops that other companies have already released at higher clockspeeds than the new "Macbook"!
The quote (according to MacInTouch) was actually "the fastest Mac notebook ever". Feel silly now?

I can't believe that I'm the voice of frickin' reason around here.:rolleyes:

Mac Dummy
Jan 10, 2006, 05:51 PM
So, I'm not even tempted with this one. But, I sure am looking forward to MWSF 2007. I think they'll really have their act together by then. Personally, what will come down the road will be very different that what we saw today.

To true, I thought overall the keynote was somewhat lack luster. I would have really liked to see an 80Gb 5G Ipod. (Toshiba as the drives out now!) A stand alone version of Front Row. As well as a Mac Mini PVR. Griffin Technology already has the iFM FM radio transmitter and it comes in black too. I was suprised no Intel roadmap (what models were getting updates and processors used) or OS 10.5 "Leopard" preview. Hopefully Apple still has many many rabbits to pull out of its collective hat in 2006.

My 5 bucks.