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View Full Version : How long should i wait...? for a new PM??


hs-l
Jan 15, 2003, 05:09 AM
I'm selling my G4 on the 2nd of februari,
and was about to order a dual 867 right away than, or should I wait..?

for the low end of the next revision and hope that one has FW 800, Airport Extreme & full DDR support and maybe a faster FSB maybe even higher dan 167MhZ ?
and ofcourse: more silent!!

but the most important question is:

WHEN DO YOU GUYS EXPECT IT..?

jaguarx
Jan 15, 2003, 05:49 AM
Soon, my guess is by april at the latest.

arn
Jan 15, 2003, 08:46 AM
Originally posted by hs-l
I'm selling my G4 on the 2nd of februari,
and was about to order a dual 867 right away than, or should I wait..?

for the low end of the next revision and hope that one has FW 800, Airport Extreme & full DDR support and maybe a faster FSB maybe even higher dan 167MhZ ?
and ofcourse: more silent!!

but the most important question is:

WHEN DO YOU GUYS EXPECT IT..?

soon... next month or so, just based on educated guessing.

arn

TiWarrior
Jan 15, 2003, 09:19 AM
I really hope so Arn. My PM G4 400MHz is showing it's age and needs upgrading soon as I seem to use my PB 667MHz for most heavy tasks now.

MacsRgr8
Jan 15, 2003, 09:32 AM
Originally posted by jaguarx
Soon, my guess is by april at the latest.

I want to buy a new PowerMac aswell, but I'm agonizingly waiting another 6-12 months for the PM 970....

TiWarrior
Jan 15, 2003, 09:40 AM
The agony is killing me to mate! I really don't know if I can wait until the 970 arrives as there are no guarantees when it will surface.

NicoMan
Jan 15, 2003, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by TiWarrior
The agony is killing me to mate! I really don't know if I can wait until the 970 arrives as there are no guarantees when it will surface.
I think the next PowerMac update will feature the 7457 but definitely not the 970 (MWNY at best).
Now about the timing: I know that it would make sense, considering the last desktop updates (iMac at MWNY'02 and PowerMac in 09/02), that Apple should be updating the iMac line before the Powermac line.
Therefore we can assume 2 things :
1. the iMac, in terms of performance, is only going to be speedbumped (it will also probably get Bluetooth and AirportExtreme) so that PowerMacs sales won't be impacted between the 2 updates.
2. The PowerMac update should come end of february at the soonest. Apple need to stretch the time before the 970 arrives.

Just logic here, no facts...

NicoMan

MacBandit
Jan 15, 2003, 10:43 AM
I know were you are coming from. I upgraded to my Dual/GHz/DDR Powermac from a B/W G3400. Do you think I saw a speed increase?:D

There are some really killer deals on refurb macs right now and if you are willing to save some money I would do it.

I say this a) because there are no hard drives currently that can max the original firewire at 400Mb/s.

b) how important is having your tower free from wires?
Check out the deals here......

Dual 867 $1495 (http://www.smalldog.com/product/42347/atdealmaced/)

Dual 1GHz $2,149 (http://www.expercom.com/product_detail.html?PRODUCT_ID=198472)

Dual 1.25 $2,749 (http://www.smalldog.com/wag12598/atdealmacex/)

Apple Store Deals (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/171/wo/qX14HHFnABBS3zR1tdf1ziDQj3m/0.3.0.3.27.7.0.SpecialDealsFrontPagePromo.0.0.0.0.3.1.1.0?32,48)

It usually takes 3 or 4 months after a new Mac comes out before there are Refurb models available.

gotohamish
Jan 15, 2003, 10:45 AM
It must be an awful position for Apple.

There are plenty of people on these message boards who slag Apple off for not producing "faster" and more "cutting edge technology" PowerMacs. Do you think Apple want to be in this position - they want to make the most kick-ass computers money can (can't?) buy!!

I, like many others, am waiting for a G4/G5 (whatever) that does someting totally new rather than just faster. I'm using a G4-500, and it's speed is only just starting to annoy me, and I do lots of PSD and FCP. Having said that, the ports on the original G4-350 are almost identical to the current range.

FireWire800 and AirportX will be cool, but it's still not quite what I'm talking about. I want to buy a new PM (or any Mac) and take it out of the box and do something new and cool. Airport and FW800 don't cut it ("wow, look how fast I transferred that file..." ZZzzzz)... I mean new to use, like home cinema, cool add-ons, more customisation etc.

What do you guys think?

Le Big Mac
Jan 15, 2003, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by NicoMan

I think the next PowerMac update will feature the 7457 but 1. the iMac, in terms of performance, is only going to be speedbumped (it will also probably get Bluetooth and AirportExtreme) so that PowerMacs sales won't be impacted between the 2 updates.

NicoMan

Here's what I don't entirely understand about Apple's marketing: Why not start dropping prices on "outdated" machines? Introduce updated iMacs if that's what makes sense. Don't worry about slowing PowerMac sales . . . just lower the prices. For people who are willing to wait, they can wait. Other folks may be tempted by the lower prices on what will soon become last year's technology. The reason PowerMac sales are slow is because people know that they'll be able to get more for the same $$ soon. So give them less for less money now, and they'll buy now, and use the savings to buy, for example, a bluetooth adapter.

TiWarrior
Jan 15, 2003, 11:12 AM
So if the next PowerMac is based on the 7457, when will the 970 be introduced in to the product line?

gotohamish
Jan 15, 2003, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by TiWarrior
So if the next PowerMac is based on the 7457, when will the 970 be introduced in to the product line?

If we were in a position to know that, we probably would have an awful lot of work to do, not posting on forums.

Remember, MacRUMORS - there is no concrete word from Apple that these chips will even be used.

pgwalsh
Jan 15, 2003, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by gotohamish
What do you guys think?
I think I agree with you. I'd like to see some new technology in the PowerMac line. I'd like the machines to be a bit quieter too ( G4NOISE (http://www.g4noise.com/)). I've posted lists of features in a couple forums. Hope some if not all come true.

MacBandit
Jan 15, 2003, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by Le Big Mac


Here's what I don't entirely understand about Apple's marketing: Why not start dropping prices on "outdated" machines? Introduce updated iMacs if that's what makes sense. Don't worry about slowing PowerMac sales . . . just lower the prices. For people who are willing to wait, they can wait. Other folks may be tempted by the lower prices on what will soon become last year's technology. The reason PowerMac sales are slow is because people know that they'll be able to get more for the same $$ soon. So give them less for less money now, and they'll buy now, and use the savings to buy, for example, a bluetooth adapter.

There is only so much margin in these machines. This is partly due to the fact that Apple isn't as large as some computer manufacturors and doesn't cut corners nearly as much. They can not in many cases afford to lower there prices but must clear inventory as much as possible first before dropping prices a little to get rid of the few remaining.

CrackedButter
Jan 16, 2003, 06:19 AM
If they dropped their prices on some of the ibooks then i would buy right now AND purchase a faster one later.

In the UK their lowest priced ibook (student discount) goes for 700, but it comes with a CD player, how lame is that. Now if it was fitted with at least a DVD player it would seem more appealing and compete with the lower speced intel machines.

But i want the DVD/CDRW combo on the next machine up, but it is 1000, i see no reason why they shouldn't lower it by 200 - 100. I would buy it then because i could get everything for about 1000. Instead i will wait because i know there is a processor upgrade.

I made the mistake once of just buying a computer, it was a PII, a month later out came the PIII.

iJon
Jan 16, 2003, 07:47 AM
I am sure new ones will be out. in the apple time frame its about time, it only makes sense.

iJon

hs-l
Jan 16, 2003, 08:26 AM
I hope so too,
and it would be perfect for me...
selling it in the first week of feb, and don't want to wait too long!!

HS-L

Kid Red
Jan 16, 2003, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by MacsRgr8


I want to buy a new PowerMac aswell, but I'm agonizingly waiting another 6-12 months for the PM 970....

I'll be right behind you, but I have a dual gig so I'm not really agonizing.

AssassinOfGates
Jan 16, 2003, 09:15 AM
Dont worry about the noise, my dual 867 is nowhere near as loud as my friend's dell. Just a low hum, and its always overpowered by my iTunes or games... or worse yet my minifridge. THAT is what I would consider loud.

I would wait for the new ones just for the 7457 processors. The 7455s are listed as a 5 on Moto's website, so I guess that means the Powermacs are due for an update.

hs-l
Jan 16, 2003, 09:21 AM
Originally posted by AssassinOfGates
Dont worry about the noise, my dual 867 is nowhere near as loud as my friend's dell. Just a low hum, and its always overpowered by my iTunes or games... or worse yet my minifridge. THAT is what I would consider loud.
Is it true that the dual 867 (MDD) is less noisier than the 1 & 1,25 GHz's?

I would wait for the new ones just for the 7457 processors. The 7455s are listed as a 5 on Moto's website, so I guess that means the Powermacs are due for an update.

what speeds do you guys think, entry model over 1GHz.. (dual)?

HS-L

MacBandit
Jan 16, 2003, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by hs-l

Is it true that the dual 867 (MDD) is less noisier than the 1 & 1,25 GHz's?


what speeds do you guys think, entry model over 1GHz.. (dual)?

HS-L

1GHz, 1.25, 1.43(Max)

TiWarrior
Jan 16, 2003, 10:45 AM
I hear some of you guys saying about selling your macs, then upgrading. Where is the best place to sell? Would my poor old G4 400MHz with Radeon be worth much in the UK?

MacFan25
Jan 16, 2003, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by iJon
i can tell you from my sources that new products will be out in TWO weeks.

iJon

Who exactly are these sources?

Akira
Jan 16, 2003, 02:17 PM
iJon's parents run a Apple dealer, if I'm not mistaken...

As for buying new PMacs, I want to upgrade as well (I have a G4 350 Sawtooth... bought it secondhand for about 3000 Dutch guilders, say $1400 quite a while ago).
I want to buy a new one after September 1st (because then I'm officially a University student -> Apple store for Education!)
I'll need a really powerful machine because I want to use it for 5 years before buying a new one, and I will use it for my study Architecture.. (running software like Maya and CADprograms)

pgwalsh
Jan 16, 2003, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by iJon
i can tell you from my sources that new products will be out in TWO weeks. iJon

Total Recall: ta ta ta two weeks

iJon
Jan 16, 2003, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by MacFan25


Who exactly are these sources?
I am just guessing from looking at the timeline of other times when powermacs have come out.
iJon

cc bcc
Jan 16, 2003, 03:06 PM
I'll need a really powerful machine because I want to use it for 5 years before buying a new one, and I will use it for my study Architecture.. (running software like Maya and CADprograms)

Good luck with running 3d software for 5 years on the same machine. My G4 400 is now 3 years old and way too slow for 3D work, at which it was fast once.
Anyway, a dual system may last longer, but still, you'll need to upgrade at least once during that 5 years..
I'm interested, where do you study and do they use macs at the university? I've studied cognitieve kunstmatige intelligentie (Cognitive Artificial Intelligence) for a year in Utrecht and it was all macintosh there (just the philosophy section that is)

Akira
Jan 16, 2003, 03:13 PM
to cc bcc:
heej ben jij ook niet lid van T.net?

anyway, I'm planning on studying Architecture in Delft (TU Delft) (I'm now in 6VWO), they use mainly PC's but I'm just addicted to macs ( I grew up with them, I even have an old Mac SE and LCII underneath my desk, just for fun).

I could buy a PC, and save quite some dough, but what's the fun in that?

One update perhaps in 5 years, maybe I can do that, but them PMacs don't come cheap.

cc bcc
Jan 16, 2003, 04:05 PM
to cc bcc:
heej ben jij ook niet lid van T.net?

Zekers! :D

For those who are interested, Tweakers.net is a dutch hardware site where Akira and me (and some other mac users and tens of thousands pc users..) are members. It's mostly aimed at x86 hardware, and it's incredible how misinformed dutch people are about macs. I can't blaim them, Apple does not advertise much here. People usually don't even consider a mac when buying a new computer. I'm the only one in a rather big family (including uncles/aunts and their kids etc) that uses a mac.

ryme4reson
Jan 16, 2003, 05:04 PM
A few things: I have heard the DP 867 and they are loud. I would recommend two things, either buy an old 466, or 533 (133BUS) machine and upgrade with a Processor card and max the ram, or option two-> Buy or trade your PowerBook for my PowerMac. :)

933 Single Proc
1.25GIGS of RAM
60GIG HD
64MB GForce 4MX
SuperDrive

The 933 scores higher than the 867DP, and it has 32Megs more vid Mem, a GIG of RAM more than the stock 867DP, and a SuperDrive. I am selling it for 1650.

jamesk777@mac.com

MacBandit
Jan 16, 2003, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by ryme4reson
[B]The 933 scores higher than the 867DP[B]

Once again tests fail to show the real world performance benefit. The Dual 867 with 10.2 will wipe a single processor 933 at almost anything especially multitasking which you always are running OSX.

ryme4reson
Jan 16, 2003, 05:46 PM
Well, I am referring to the xBench scores between the 933 and DP 867. How can "Real World Performace" be determinded? xBench is the only tool I have seen to determine Mac speeds, besides Apples CHUD.

Also, under OSX, I would bet a 933 with 1.25 GIGs of RAM and 32Megs more of Video Memory would out perform a DP 867 almost any day. Of course this is againt a stock 867, because they are about the same price.

(The $1699 DP 867 has 256RAM VRS 1.25GIGs, a Combo Drive, vrs. a Superdrive, and a 32MB GF4, vrs my 64MB GF4.)

The reason for my post was to give my insight on the DP867 fan noise, and to show that my machine is a better deal than a DP 867 that one has to pay taxes on in addition to adding a SDrive, RAM, and vid card to get the same specs.

I will post my xBench scores shortly, so any1 with a DP 867 please post so we can compare.
(Sorry no "Real World tests avaliable") :)

AssassinOfGates
Jan 16, 2003, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by ryme4reson
A few things: I have heard the DP 867 and they are loud.

Ha! I own one and it isnt that loud at all. Just run iTunes or a game at even the slightest volume and the whiner's problem is solved. Most of the time my second fan isnt running either, and I have two PCI cards, the stock GeForce 4 MX AGP, and 512 ram in there.

(edited for typos)

ryme4reson
Jan 16, 2003, 09:46 PM
I am of the opinion the DP 867 is loud. I for one have my tower, about 2 feet from my ears so its closer than say on the floor under the desk.

Also, its not a valid arguemnt to say "just play itunes or a game" as that is not the question. Granted I blast my iTunes almost all the time, but that doesnt mean the person wanted the 867 has 2 listen to music all the time. The new PowerMacs are loud, but obviously if music is played, most computers will not sound too loud.

iJon
Jan 16, 2003, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by ryme4reson
I am of the opinion the DP 867 is loud. I for one have my tower, about 2 feet from my ears so its closer than say on the floor under the desk.

Also, its not a valid arguemnt to say "just play itunes or a game" as that is not the question. Granted I blast my iTunes almost all the time, but that doesnt mean the person wanted the 867 has 2 listen to music all the time. The new PowerMacs are loud, but obviously if music is played, most computers will not sound too loud.
in my opinion i dont think they are, now i bet some peoples are. its amazing. my powermac is probably 2 feet in front of me maybe 3. i have nothing on in my room. and i still cant hear the powermac. i even have an acbell power supply. my pc with the pentium 4 heatsink and fan and two 80 mm fans that is 6 ft away from is louder, but still not that loud.

iJon

ryme4reson
Jan 16, 2003, 09:57 PM
I was sitting about 6 feet from my PowerMAc about 5 mins ago, watching Sienfeld, and I could hear my 933, and I know the DP 867 is much louder.

On a side note, how really gives a crap, I mean geez U people sound a bit 2 fickle. Its not the end of the world if there is a little humming coming from the G4....The SuperComputer :)

noelmac75
Jan 17, 2003, 08:45 AM
Just say they do come out at the end of the month, how long do u think it will be till there shipped?

Akira
Jan 17, 2003, 08:53 AM
Originally posted by noelmac75
Just say they do come out at the end of the month, how long do u think it will be till there shipped?
wild guess, 6 weeks for the top of the line

MacBandit
Jan 17, 2003, 10:22 AM
Originally posted by Akira

wild guess, 6 weeks for the top of the line

Could be immediately though also. That would be part of the reason they weren't announced at MacWorld.

ethan
Jan 17, 2003, 11:12 AM
It could be 6 or 12 months for the PM 970. Who knows? But can you imagine the problems those first 970 machines are going to have? Especially after Apple's current G4 MDD history? And their current quality track record? So if it comes out in a year, you'll have to wait another 6 months for them to work out the problems and bugs. I would never be one of those people who buy the first PM 970s off the line. Talk about a glutton for punishment. whoa!

TiWarrior
Jan 18, 2003, 03:06 AM
Well Ethan, I totally agree with you although I hadn't thought about it before!

You have persuaded me to go for the 7457 when it arrives now.:D

jaguarx
Jan 18, 2003, 03:27 AM
I've studied cognitieve kunstmatige intelligentie (Cognitive Artificial Intelligence) for a year in Utrecht and it was all macintosh there (just the philosophy section that is) Research or pure study? I work in similar research.

Falleron
Jan 18, 2003, 07:37 AM
I think we will get an updated PowerMac soon, in the next 4 weeks I think. Specs:

Up to DP 1.43Ghz (New G4 with 200Mhz Bus)
512Mb RAM (Min)
Firewire 800
Airport Extreme
Bluetooth
ATI 9700

I think the specs are very predictable.