PDA

View Full Version : Power Macs are waiting for Serial ATA


iknowsomestuff
Jan 15, 2003, 03:40 PM
The next rev of Power Macs will ship with Serial ATA.

When the new Serial ATA drives hit the channel in the next few weeks, the Power Macs will be announced.

www.seagate.com

You will notice that no one has any stock of Serial ATA drives yet.

cr2sh
Jan 15, 2003, 04:20 PM
Do you actually KNOW something or is this pure speculation?

For example: I know that serial ATA transfers at 150MB/second but... to my knowledge... Apple has never used a Seagate Drive in the powermac. Am I wrong? Maxtor was at MWSF.. but Seagate was not.

rainman::|:|
Jan 15, 2003, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by cr2sh
Do you actually KNOW something or is this pure speculation?

Didn't you see his username, "iknowsomestuff"? Obviously he knows some stuff.

pnw

cr2sh
Jan 15, 2003, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by paulwhannel
Didn't you see his username, "iknowsomestuff"? Obviously he knows some stuff.

In that case, I should change my username to "TheG5WillBeReleasedTomorrow." :rolleyes:

BJNY
Jan 15, 2003, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by cr2sh
but... to my knowledge... Apple has never used a Seagate Drive in the powermac.

I've since sold it, but the 60GB inside a MDD Dual 1GHz was a Seagate Barracuda IV.

cr2sh
Jan 15, 2003, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by BJNY
I've since sold it, but the 60GB inside a MDD Dual 1GHz was a Seagate Barracuda IV.

It came stock? I stand corrected. I think they are better drives than Maxtors and I'd be happy to see it... but something tells me that the PowerMacs are waiting on more than a harddrive.

yosoyjay
Jan 15, 2003, 06:14 PM
This seems to open the door to simple RAID implementation in the towers. I've never inquired about his in Power Macs, is this possible hardware and software wise?

LethalWolfe
Jan 15, 2003, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by yosoyjay
This seems to open the door to simple RAID implementation in the towers. I've never inquired about his in Power Macs, is this possible hardware and software wise?


PMs already have software RAID available, and if you want a hardware RAID you can just by a controller card. Or did I misundersand what you were saying?


Lethal

mozez
Jan 15, 2003, 06:56 PM
for anyone reading who does not know, serial ata uses a different connection that is smaller, serial ata is cheaper to make, much faster, can chair more devices, and is a more secure data transfer, less corruption in files. it would be spectacular if they put these in the new powermacs.serial ata is the future of hard drives. oh, and it consumes less power and produces less heat.

BJNY
Jan 15, 2003, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by mozez
for anyone reading who does not know, serial ata uses a different connection that is smaller, serial ata is cheaper to make, much faster, can chair more devices, and is a more secure data transfer, less corruption in files. it would be spectacular if they put these in the new powermacs.serial ata is the future of hard drives. oh, and it consumes less power and produces less heat.

How reliable are Serial ATA mechanisms compared to IDE and SCSI?
I noticed that Seagte only offers a one year warranty.

Akira
Jan 17, 2003, 07:40 AM
Originally posted by BJNY


How reliable are Serial ATA mechanisms compared to IDE and SCSI?
I noticed that Seagte only offers a one year warranty.

one year warranty yeah, but didn't maxtor do the same, cutting the warranty on their IDE HDs back to one year?

Anyway, as far as I know the one year warranty thing only applies to non-EU sales since the one year warranty is illegal according to EU regulations.

DeadlyBreakfast
Jan 17, 2003, 09:30 AM
Originally posted by BJNY


How reliable are Serial ATA mechanisms compared to IDE and SCSI?
I noticed that Seagte only offers a one year warranty.


The interface and the electronics that exchange the data are different ....the platters / heads etc are not any different from what I understand so reliability should be >=

LethalWolfe
Jan 17, 2003, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by mozez
for anyone reading who does not know, serial ata uses a different connection that is smaller, serial ata is cheaper to make, much faster, can chair more devices, and is a more secure data transfer, less corruption in files. it would be spectacular if they put these in the new powermacs.serial ata is the future of hard drives. oh, and it consumes less power and produces less heat.


Serial ATA maybe faster, but that won't make a dang freak of difference until we get faster HDDs. Putting a current HDD (which doesn't even push ATA66) onto Serial ATA will result in a speed increase of 0.


Lethal

Nipsy
Jan 17, 2003, 10:31 AM
Here's a simple way of understanding drives vs. interfaces.

An ATA drive is a golf cart. It has the same top speed on a path (ata66), a road (ata100), an expressway (ata133) or a freeway (serial ata).

Two golf carts will clog the path, and have to slow down, but two golf carts won't clog the road, expressway or freeway.

Until drives become something faster (cars), as LethalWolfe said, it will not matter, unless you have two drives on an ata66 bus.

gotohamish
Jan 17, 2003, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by cr2sh


In that case, I should change my username to "TheG5WillBeReleasedTomorrow." :rolleyes:

No! Don't! That would be a nightmare - we all know tomorrow never comes!

frozenstar
Jan 17, 2003, 12:02 PM
In all of the posts so far about Serial ATA, it seems that everyone forgot to mention one of its best features - hot swapability.

will
Jan 17, 2003, 12:19 PM
Serial ATA would be a good move for Apple, whether they should introduce it before parts become widespread is the difficult bit.

Also if you look at http://www.seagate.com/cda/products/discsales/marketing/detail/0,,564,00.html you'll notice one of the features of the Barracuda Serial ATA V is:

SoftSonic (TM) FDB motor: Quietest acoustics on any desktop drive

Perhaps if Apple can get the quietest fans too the next PM could be whisper quiet :)

JustAGuy
Jan 17, 2003, 06:02 PM
Of course, since the fans are louder than the HD by several orders of magnitude, Apple could put in a Seagate hard disk containing "InfiniLoud(tm) Technology" that's "sounds like 15 ball bearings being shaken in a tin can" and no one would probably notice...

iJon
Jan 17, 2003, 08:09 PM
Originally posted by BJNY


I've since sold it, but the 60GB inside a MDD Dual 1GHz was a Seagate Barracuda IV.
the dual ghz has a deskstar byt ibm. i cant recall ever seeing one in a computer. all i have seen is quantam, western digital, ibm, and maxtor. i will look at all the other macs tomorrow.

iJon

BJNY
Jan 17, 2003, 08:46 PM
I sold my three month old MDD Dual 1GHz via eBay in late December.
Here is the snapshot of the Apple System Profiler:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2077087875&indexURL=2&photoDisplayType=2#ebaylargephotohosting
Would anyone make this stuff up? :rolleyes:

iJon
Jan 17, 2003, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by BJNY
I sold my three month old MDD Dual 1GHz via eBay in late December.
Here is the snapshot of the Apple System Profiler:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2077087875&indexURL=2&photoDisplayType=2#ebaylargephotohosting
Would anyone make this stuff up? :rolleyes:
mine has a ibm

iJon

ibookin'
Jan 17, 2003, 09:12 PM
If you custom configure a Power Mac with SCSI hard drives those drives will be Seagate. At work we have a 933 with 3 72GB Drives and those are all Seagate Cheetahs.

I think they use IBM for the standard configs, though.

iJon
Jan 17, 2003, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by ibookin'@mwny
If you custom configure a Power Mac with SCSI hard drives those drives will be Seagate. At work we have a 933 with 3 72GB Drives and those are all Seagate Cheetahs.

I think they use IBM for the standard configs, though.
but on the other guys it said seagate on that ata bus, if it was a scsi wouldnt the hard drive be on the scsi card in the pci section of apple system folder. im just guessing. anyone else with these machines want to look. doesnt macbandit have this machine.

iJon

LethalWolfe
Jan 17, 2003, 10:08 PM
My dual gig QS (purcahsed in April) came w/an 80gig Maxtor.


Lethal

MacPorter
Jan 17, 2003, 10:23 PM
My DP867 arrived two days ago -

I upgraded to 80GB when I placed my order and the drive is a Seagate.

iJon
Jan 17, 2003, 10:25 PM
Originally posted by MacPorter
My DP867 arrived two days ago -

I upgraded to 80GB when I placed my order and the drive is a Seagate.
interesting, i guess they just use all kinds of multiple brands.

iJon

MacPorter
Jan 17, 2003, 10:29 PM
Incidentally, it is superfast.

As far as the noise, it is certainly not a quiet computer, but it is no louder than the new Dell P4 2.8's that we installed at work this week.

There will be some interest in the following:

It shipped with a Samsung PS.

iJon
Jan 17, 2003, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by MacPorter
Incidentally, it is superfast.

As far as the noise, it is certainly not a quiet computer, but it is no louder than the new Dell P4 2.8's that we installed at work this week.

There will be some interest in the following:

It shipped with a Samsung PS.
my dual ghz mdd shipped with a acbell ps and is whisper quiet. i love it. no problems here and nothing has been replaced.

iJon

MacPorter
Jan 17, 2003, 10:35 PM
i'm glad to hear. I was very nervous while awaiting my order to be shipped. All of the posts about troubles had me shaking in my boots.

Oh well, I am glad that it worked out. I gave it a good go-around over the past couple of days and it is working great.

Now the only thing that has me cringing is the pending updates! If I kept waiting, I would never have bought another Mac.

Cheers.

rice_web
Jan 17, 2003, 10:42 PM
I don't see why Apple wouldn't include Serial ATA. Apple has obviously lost the megahertz war, it may as well try to compete in other areas (as they're doing with software).

benixau
Jan 18, 2003, 03:52 AM
Originally posted by MacPorter
My DP867 arrived two days ago -

I upgraded to 80GB when I placed my order and the drive is a Seagate.

i did the same ( i also got a sd) but mine is an ibm disk. i agree, i think they use multiple brands. but if they started using serial ata ... how many compaines have serial ata drives??

Originally posted by MacPorter
I don't see why Apple wouldn't include Serial ATA. Apple has obviously lost the megahertz war, it may as well try to compete in other areas (as they're doing with software).

actually i think they are trying to move attantion away from desktop hardware at the moment. not just the processors. if they did this then people would ask where the faster processors are. and jobs would be left to say:

"these ones do basically the same thing, just better" (quote from WWDC when he cut opendoc+newton pre-CEO status)

Sol
Jan 18, 2003, 08:05 AM
Provided that Serial ATA will not come at SCSI prices then it would be a logical feature of future Macs. How soon? No more than a year would be a guess based on the fact that although the technology is now demoed, no drives can be bought yet. It would be great to have one 40GB Serial ATA drive and one 500GB IDE drive in the PowerMacs. The faster drive could take care of OS duties while the bigger drive could be used for media storage. OS X would be a lot more snappy in a set-up like this.

I do wonder if the original FireWire would be any slower than FireWire 2 when handling Serial ATA drives. We have yet to see a need for the faster FireWire but my guess is that faster drives will have something to do with it.

LethalWolfe
Jan 18, 2003, 09:37 AM
Originally posted by Sol
Provided that Serial ATA will not come at SCSI prices then it would be a logical feature of future Macs. How soon? No more than a year would be a guess based on the fact that although the technology is now demoed, no drives can be bought yet. It would be great to have one 40GB Serial ATA drive and one 500GB IDE drive in the PowerMacs. The faster drive could take care of OS duties while the bigger drive could be used for media storage. OS X would be a lot more snappy in a set-up like this.

I do wonder if the original FireWire would be any slower than FireWire 2 when handling Serial ATA drives. We have yet to see a need for the faster FireWire but my guess is that faster drives will have something to do with it.

Serial ATA will cost about the same as current ATA, but you aren't gonna see any performance gains until we start getting faster HDDs (2 or 3 times faster than current IDE drives). Serial ATA HDDs will just be ATA/133 drives w/a different interface (neither of which can even max out ATA/66).

I think that's the reason Serial ATA has kinda stalled is 'cause there is no compelling reason to change.


Lethal

Akira
Jan 18, 2003, 01:13 PM
Apple indeed uses different brands from time to time.
The beige G3 here has a Western Digital Caviar
My own G4 (350 sawtooth) has a Western Digital
My dad's G4 (single 800 quicksilver has a Seagate Barracuda
Some newer G4's than my Dad's quicksilver have maxtor (if I'm not mistaken), or were it the older ones?